My participation in World Nude Bike Ride

[Gary Naturist]

Not being able to be in Toronto today for the World Naked Bike Ride there, I decided to do my own ride here in the country.

I went out at about 6:30 am. It was blue sky all around, but only 10C (50F). Because it was cool out, I started off wearing a light Polartec undershirt. I kept the shirt on for a very short distance while I travelled along the paved road that runs past our place.

When I reached the nearby adjoining dirt road, I decided that, notwithstanding the temperature, I should be naked (except for sandals) for my naked bike ride. So I took off my shirt and stowed it in my rear carrier, and then I was off.

This was my second ride down this road, the first having been a couple of weeks ago in the afternoon. It?s very lightly travelled, and there are no houses fronting onto it. I travelled at a leisurely pace about 3 km down the road to where it intersects another paved road, then turned around and cycled back.

The ride, about 7 km in total, was very enjoyable, being nude and in close contact with nature, especially when in sunlight. But with the breeze resulting from the speed at which I was moving, it was very chilly. My toes and fingers became very cold but, surprisingly, not my penis -- I guess because of the greater blood supply to this area.

I didn?t meet up with anyone on the dirt road. If I had, and if they had stopped to ask what I was doing, I would have been very comfortable explaining that I was participating in the World Nude Bike Ride. It?s easier to justify being nude in public if there is an external reason.

If you?re in North America and you read this on Saturday, why not take inspiration from me and go for a nude bike ride yourself. I?d like to hear from anyone who does.

Gary

[Gary Naturist]

Not being able to be in Toronto today for the World Naked Bike Ride there, I decided to do my own ride here in the country.

I went out at about 6:30 am. It was blue sky all around, but only 10C (50F). Because it was cool out, I started off wearing a light Polartec undershirt. I kept the shirt on for a very short distance while I travelled along the paved road that runs past our place.

When I reached the nearby adjoining dirt road, I decided that, notwithstanding the temperature, I should be naked (except for sandals) for my naked bike ride. So I took off my shirt and stowed it in my rear carrier, and then I was off.

This was my second ride down this road, the first having been a couple of weeks ago in the afternoon. It?s very lightly travelled, and there are no houses fronting onto it. I travelled at a leisurely pace about 3 km down the road to where it intersects another paved road, then turned around and cycled back.

The ride, about 7 km in total, was very enjoyable, being nude and in close contact with nature, especially when in sunlight. But with the breeze resulting from the speed at which I was moving, it was very chilly. My toes and fingers became very cold but, surprisingly, not my penis -- I guess because of the greater blood supply to this area.

I didn?t meet up with anyone on the dirt road. If I had, and if they had stopped to ask what I was doing, I would have been very comfortable explaining that I was participating in the World Nude Bike Ride. It?s easier to justify being nude in public if there is an external reason.

If you?re in North America and you read this on Saturday, why not take inspiration from me and go for a nude bike ride yourself. I?d like to hear from anyone who does.

Gary

Great inspiration Gary....I'm going out right now and get on my bike naked ....In my garage /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

I am sorry but I have to ask...... riding a bike naked looks somewhat uncomfortable....How do you do it?

[Rik]

Why should it be uncomfortable? I've done it and can confirm that as long as you're wearing shoes you'll be OK.

http://www.paulgross.org/image/nakedbike2.jpg

Rik

I often ride my bicycle nude here at the resort during those rare warm days. I've never done it outside the resort though.

[Gary Naturist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
I am sorry but I have to ask...... riding a bike naked looks somewhat uncomfortable....How do you do it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Think about riding with light shorts on, then about taking them off and riding naked. The light piece of cloth is not going to provide any significant amount of padding.

I didn't experience any chafing of my thighs -- I guess because the seat is designed with the up and down movement of the legs in mind.

Gary

[NudeAl]

I didn't participate but several of my friends did. A group biked nude from the gates of De Anza along the dirt road that parallels the freeway up to a couple of gas stations at the offramp. They even posed for pics up by the gas pumps. They numbered about 12-15 and did it again later in the day. They say they did get some looks and double takes from a few people but not a huge reaction. They also went for a mountain bike ride on some of the trails near the park out in the desert. I spent the day at the beach with my son and granddaughter.

[ranul]

it is going to be discussed in the next 3 and half hours on peter warren on the week end and I am not sure which stations he is on other than 630 ched edmonton .
E-Mail: mail@peterwarren.ca

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Riding a bike nude is one thing I've yet to do. I have ridden for long distances and know you tend to get sore in the groin area even with jean shorts.
Well, I guess I need to buy a bike first.

"Riding a bike nude is one thing I've yet to do. I have ridden for long distances and know you tend to get sore in the groin area even with jean shorts."

I'm sure you'll only ride your bike naked in places where nudity is permitted or accepted - unlike the selfish, antisocial people who took part in that ridiculous protest.

Stu

[soundman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
I'm sure you'll only ride your bike naked in places where nudity is permitted or accepted <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where are these wonderful places located?

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Yeah stu, just like those anti-social people back some 200+ years ago, that protested the tea tax and dumped it over board, or the whole taxation without representation thing.

[Prometheus]

I actually got to participate in the main event. There were about 200 of us in Chicago, about half naked and a few in costumes. We rode right through downtown and several north side neighborhoods. For seventeen miles! I think the leaders were having so much fun that they just kept zigzagging around the city for over two hours. This was from about 9:30 pm to midnight, right when the bars were at their most crowded, so lots of people saw us.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
I'm sure you'll only ride your bike naked in places where nudity is permitted or accepted <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The thing is, it WAS actually permitted and accepted. We had dozens of cops holding up traffic for us and occasionally following us around for mile or two. Some of them were even taking pictures. As far as I know, no one got arrested or fined. None of the spectators seemed to mind either. Many of them actually cheered us and gave us high-fives once they figured out what was going on.

[bendigonudey]

Although I have occassionally ridden my Mountain Bike around trails near here, we have a problem down here in Southern Oz fitting in with your Northern Hemisphere dates - Saturday morning here was fine and clear, but less than one degree, with a heavy frost - better to stay in bed until the heater warms the house.

Perhaps we could have a date close to our summer solstice, and then we'll ride (although I note some very brave (but COLD!) Kiwi's took up the challenge!

[johny]

RE: ""I have ridden for long distances and know you tend to get sore in the groin area even with jean shorts""

As an officially educated bicycle-tourism group leader with many experiences travelling with a bicycle in the extreme mountain areas even 3000 km afar (one month long) I know very well that this effect.

But there is a coomon fault in Yourself - You should position the seat highth that way the butts are not slipping from side to side. Often those correct heighth is that at which when sitting at seat you can easily touch both feet paddles from where the fingers growing out to the pedals what being strightly horisontal and both ankle-knuckles are at the strictly 90 grade angle. This criteria is strict enough to be find with some 5 milimeter precisity.

If one have seat lower, it makes quickly tired at knees, but having higher makes teared ***. With a right adjusting it should not tear off.

Yet matherial of seat cover is important too and the seat width. Best seats ar made from "echt leder", narrow and long, without springs and with longitudinal valley in the midst of seat to deblock the main penis vein (long journeys without this valley may induce the impotence, even from one trip if unlucky). Worst are wide, springed, plasticate covered with porolon inside. I can reccomend only to throw such away.

With good seat and regulation never one may have a tearing, with a clothes or without, after the firsts days of accomodating of course.

"Yeah stu, just like those anti-social people back some 200+ years ago, that protested the tea tax and dumped it over board, or the whole taxation without representation thing."

Sorry - I fail to see the connection. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Prometheus

"The thing is, it WAS actually permitted and accepted."

Then I would have issues with the people who GAVE you permission to behave in such a disgusting way in a public street. If that happened in my town the police would have been innundated with complaints and, if they had not taken the appropriate measures, the police chief would have been carpeted.

Nudity on nudist beaches is, of course, perfectly acceptable for those who want to engage in it. But anyone who has the desire to show their genitals to innocent and decent members of the public is engaging in exhibitionism and such behaviour should be treated for what it is - antisocial deviance.

Stu

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
If that happened in my town the police would have been innundated with complaints ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh come on Stu. You know as well as I do that the police are never "inundated" with complaints about nudity. That's just wishful thinking on your part. If they get complaints at all it's only ever one or two self appointed do-gooders who feel they have a public duty to "protect" other people (usually women and children) from those things they don't like themselves.

In the London event the police escorted the naked riders along the route.

Rik

Rik

Have you forgotten Fraisthorpe beach during August 2001? According to the Beverley News, Inspector Baker (Barker? not sure which) of the Humberside Police reported that their control room had received "a dozen or more" of complaints about nudists, some of whom had strayed off the former nudist area and onto the adjoining family beach at Barmston. That's why he ordered the police heliopter in.

I'm sure you and I discussed this before. But I consider "a dozen or more" of complaints to mean "innundated", don't you? Especialy when you consider that this is a fairly out-of-the-way resort, hardly Blackpool Pleasure Beach, is it?

Stu

[Gary Naturist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
I actually got to participate in the main event. There were about 200 of us in Chicago, about half naked and a few in costumes. We rode right through downtown and several north side neighborhoods. For seventeen miles! I think the leaders were having so much fun that they just kept zigzagging around the city for over two hours. This was from about 9:30 pm to midnight, right when the bars were at their most crowded, so lots of people saw us.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
I'm sure you'll only ride your bike naked in places where nudity is permitted or accepted <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The thing is, it WAS actually permitted and accepted. We had dozens of cops holding up traffic for us and occasionally following us around for mile or two. Some of them were even taking pictures. As far as I know, no one got arrested or fined. None of the spectators seemed to mind either. Many of them actually cheered us and gave us high-fives once they figured out what was going on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds great, Prometheus! This multi-city event is doing A LOT for the cause of public nudity. I hope it becomes an annual event.

Having allowed it once, and having experienced no problems, the authorities will have some difficulty in prohibiting such events in the future.

It will likely make it easier for individuals to go nude in public.

Gary

[johny]

RE: (Stu) ""If that happened in my town the police would have been innundated with complaints""

Yea, yea. We know very well that at least some of those complaints would come from the Stu, and others from his friends.

RE: ""engaging in exhibitionism and such behaviour should be treated for what it is - antisocial deviance""

Exhibicionists have typically enjoy of the fears coming from his victim, and this fearfilled atmosphaire somehow transforms to his own sexual excitement, what he is unable to get in the normal way.

So exhibitionism is a surely illness, what manifesting in making a terror around him. Yes, it is antisocial, as every kind of terror. But -each exhibitionist is heavely shocked and becomes noninterested in his deals if happens something as in this true story (and such examination is wonderful key to find out a motivation):

That was one oldish mem at the Baltic sea beach near Riga, namely Jurmala. She went home after the all day long rest at beach ("normal" beach)when from the bushes jumped out the certain man in the middle years in the long black topcoat, stand afront of her and opened this coat. What she see You can imagine Yourself, because corresponding newspaper article didn told it to me.

But this lady was exclusively clever. She was kind of psychologist and knew this man need to see the natural fear, before start the rapping deeds. Lady cling the eyes into him, looked veeeery carefully and said - oh my dear, how TINY you have your equipement. Hearing of such comment the man instantly lost an erection and bawdy slamming run away.

Only sad thing here is that one hour later this perv find a new schoolgirl and raped her at the same place and method. But that is a new story, and hopefully he sits in the prison for a long now.

Stu, do WE (or I mean those byciclists) really You PERCEIVE in the same way??? If such, there something is not good with Yourself. Seems You are unable to see through the people skin to catch their motivation, or Your mind is so much filled with weird things You are unable to believe the people MAY be innocent, at least sometimes. I`m sorry about You.

Gary

"It will likely make it easier for individuals to go nude in public."

All it takes for this sort of evil to succeed is for decent people to do nothing. I think Citizens For Decency just got one more recruit - me. If enough of us protest to the authorities they'll soon clamp down on these disgusting characters.

Jonny

I am a taxpayer and a citizen and, as such, I am entitled to have a say in how I want public places to be regulated. I see very little difference between flashing perverts and public nudists. They may (or may not) have a different motive for indulging in exhibitionist, but it is equally disgusting and vile and the punishment should be the same.

Stu

[Naturist Mark]

Speaking of the Citizens for Decency... have they or anyone else documented any cases of rape, prostitution, vandalism, sexual slavery, disease, abortion, murder, or gingivitis caused by this international outbreak of public nudity? Surely such open and well publicized immorality would have triggered an immediate breakdown of public order and a crime spree of unprecedented degree. Did I just miss the headlines?

"Speaking of the Citizens for Decency... have they or anyone else documented any cases of rape, prostitution, vandalism, sexual slavery, disease, abortion, murder, or gingivitis caused by this international outbreak of public nudity?"

Nope. But I'm sure they have plenty of cases of outrage, disgust, offence, discomfort and rage. The handful of idiots who exhibited themselves in Hyde Park, London for five minutes hardly got a mention in the media - not even the main London papers made anything of it. I bet 99.9% of the UK population, and probably the world population, were totally unaware of this ridiculous event.

Stu

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
Speaking of the Citizens for Decency... have they or anyone else documented any cases of rape, prostitution, vandalism, sexual slavery, disease, abortion, murder, or gingivitis caused by this international outbreak of public nudity? Surely such open and well publicized immorality would have triggered an immediate breakdown of public order and a crime spree of unprecedented degree. Did I just miss the headlines? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most excellent point! Bravo!

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
But I consider "a dozen or more" of complaints to mean "innundated", don't you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was forgetting you use that old Humpty Dumpty dictionary of yours. My dictionary defines "inundated" as "To overwhelm as if with a flood; swamp". I'm sure not even the plods of South Humbersaide are so short of resources they consider that they'd be "overwhelmed" by a dozen complaints - complaints which were, incidentally, about the indecent behaviour of swingers and doggers, not about naturists.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I use a word, "Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone," it means just what I chose it to mean - nothing less, and nothing more."
- Alice Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Rik

[Chief78CJ7]

Stu..

You're a lawyer?..

Sounds like your practicing to be a judge..

Rik,

A dozen or more phone calls to Hornsea Police Station would be an innundation. I bet they don't have more than a handful of officers to cover that entire coastline as far as the South Beach at Bridlington.

Stu

[threadbare]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
Speaking of the Citizens for Decency... have they or anyone else documented any cases of rape, prostitution, vandalism, sexual slavery, disease, abortion, murder, or gingivitis caused by this international outbreak of public nudity? Surely such open and well publicized immorality would have triggered an immediate breakdown of public order and a crime spree of unprecedented degree. Did I just miss the headlines? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only thing missing that I can see is Hoofinmouth.

gingivitis-----lmao---------you kill me sometimes Mark

[Rex]

"I bet they don't have more than a handful of officers to cover that entire coastline as far as the South Beach at Bridlington."

If the English police force is as understaffed as the Western Australian one, you're probably right Stu.

Yet the misguided Inspector Plod, in response to a handful of complaints "ordered the police helicopter in" [at considerable public expense], thereby leaving the area under his control inadaquately protected if a REAL emergency had arisen.

Don't get me wrong Stu. My understanding is that the complaints were basically about inappropriate sexual activity and that would have offended me too. But surely the said Inspector Plod runs his area with a system of priorities.

[Bob S.]

Mark, there may have been some reprots of soreassitis if the bikers did not take the proper precautions outlined by johny.

"Sorry - I fail to see the connection."

How about this connection, stu. This WNBR could be comoparable to the New Jersey men in the 1930s(?) who went topless on a beach and got themselves arrested. These men went against the law and society's norms. Yet they won and now men are allowed to go topless anywhere in public.

"Then I would have issues with the people who GAVE you permission to behave in such a disgusting way in a public street."

stu, read Al's and Prometheus' accounts again. They were supported by the public. Apparently, the public in both instances did not think that it was disgusting.

Bob S.

[Rex]

Whether or not genuine naturists are harrassed by the police at Fraisethorpe seems to be at the personal whim of the officer in charge. This is obviously both unfair and unnecessary.

http://www.n-2.org.uk/nuff/pages/beaches/frais.htm

[sawdust]

Stu,
Can you just imagine the deoderizing and sanitizing all those bike seats needed after the ride was over? Phewwww!!! Sawdust

Rex

The beach in question is council property. They are allowed to regulate it as they see fit and if they decide that they don't want nudity there - then there shouldn't be any nudity there. The original ban on nudity did stem from sexual behaviour, but the later complaints were about people being naked in contravention of the signs - in other words, innocent people would see those signs without realising the danger they were in.

I don't blame people for complaining under those circumstances.

"But surely the said Inspector Plod runs his area with a system of priorities."

Of course he will have priorities - but that doesn't mean he won't act at all against lesser forms of antisocial behaviour. You remind me of the motorists who get caught for speeding and ask the officer "Why aren't you out catching burglars?" The police must uphold ALL laws - including the less serious ones.

Bob S.

"How about this connection, stu. This WNBR could be comoparable to the New Jersey men in the 1930s(?) who went topless on a beach and got themselves arrested. These men went against the law and society's norms. Yet they won and now men are allowed to go topless anywhere in public."

Unlike the genitals, the male chest has never, to my knowledge, been a part of the body with significant sexual connotations. I would liken the rule against men going topless with the rule that gentlemen should wear a tie - failure to wear a tie is a breach of a social convention - it does not give rise to disgust. There are towns in Spain today in which there are signs warning men that they must wear a shirt in the street.

"stu, read Al's and Prometheus' accounts again. They were supported by the public. Apparently, the public in both instances did not think that it was disgusting."

I wonder what research was done to show that there was not a significant number of members of the public who found that disgusting. If it's true then it's their society - they decide what is acceptable and I wouldn't want to live in such a society personally.

Rex

"Whether or not genuine naturists are harrassed by the police at Fraisethorpe seems to be at the personal whim of the officer in charge. This is obviously both unfair and unnecessary."

It's not a matter of his "whim" but his judgement, having regard to all the facts. The simple fact is that the OWNER of the beach, the council, acting for the WHOLE community, made a decision based upon several factors. Their decision could have been challenged by legal process to have the naturist part of the beach reinstated. But it wasn't challenged through the courts - it was challenged by lawbreakers who couldn't have cared less about the danger they were putting innocent beach-users in.

sawdust

"Can you just imagine the deoderizing and sanitizing all those bike seats needed after the ride was over? Phewwww!!!"

It doesn't bear thinking about!

Stu

[Hooked]

"I'm sure you'll only ride your bike naked in places where nudity is permitted or accepted - unlike the selfish, antisocial people who took part in that ridiculous protest."

Selfish? Antisocial? It seems to me like the people who took part in this DEMONSTRATION were exactly the opposite of that. They were SHARING their message with the world and engaging the public soooo that is pretty much the opposite of Selfish and Antisocial.

You know that many of the people here on this forum took part in this DEMONSTRATION, so it's pretty rude to be slinging around insults about them. And please don't try to rebudle with "Well it's rude to go nude in public." because use of these forums is regulated by a set of rules whereas the public domain is a grey area and shaped and formed by those using it.

Since when was it ok to start name-calling in this forum? Keep it up, Stu, we'll all be too happy to see you banned. Feel free to share your *censored* opinion but you are coming closer and closer to crossing the line, and as soon as you do, I will be one of the people who "innundates" Corky with complaints...

[Rex]

"The beach in question is council property"

The beach is public property administered by the council for the benefit of the public. It's about 45 years since I was on a beach in that area, so I can't be certain what is and what is not allowed there, but it may be that at least part of it is for exercising dogs off the lead. That will not suit ALL members of the public, particularly those who get attacked by uncontrolled dogs, those whose towels and clothes may be urinated on and those who inadvertently tread or sit on dog faeces. But it is probably seen as a fair use to please dog owners.

A fair minded authority tries to please everyone and does not penalise all for the perceived sins of a few.

http://www.n-2.org.uk/nuff/pages/beaches/frais.htm

The information on this website indicates that one officer-in-charge had a "cordial relationship" with the nudists, another one had a history of harrassing them. This indicates to me that one was well informed and fair minded, the other had "a bee in his bonnet" and was not fit to hold his exalted position.

Stu, you have indicated on several occasions that you believe in a fair compromise for nudists and most of us have welcomed that attitude. In that respect, you're like the senior police officer who had "cordial relations" with the nudists. Respect begets respect, co-operation begets co-operation. Bloody-mindedness begets resentment and defiance.

Hooked.

" I will be one of the people who "innundates" Corky with complaints..."

You can please yourself. I came here to discuss issues with decent, considerate naturists - which is what I believe most people here are. They wouldn't dream of behaving in the way described if they suspected that many people would be offended or upset by what they were doing. I have no desire to discuss issues with extremists or exhibitionists because they, like all other 'fundamentalists', will never engage in dialogue.

Stu

[Hooked]

Well Stu, that's just ducky

[Jochanaan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
The beach in question is council property. They are allowed to regulate it as they see fit and if they decide that they don't want nudity there - then there shouldn't be any nudity there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Here on our side of the lake, if the council members enforced such regulations and the public generally disagreed with them, most likely they would not be council members after the next election. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Unless they were good at demagoguery. Unfortunately, in far too many cases demagoguery swamps the voice of reason.

"Here on our side of the lake, if the council members enforced such regulations and the public generally disagreed with them, most likely they would not be council members after the next election. Unless they were good at demagoguery. Unfortunately, in far too many cases demagoguery swamps the voice of reason."

I agree with you. If the public generally disagree with council decisions then the councils should review and perhaps reverse these decisions. If they don't then they deserve to be voted out of office. But if there is no evidence of widespread disapproval of a particular council regulation then it should be respected.

Stu

[nudistmatt]

I agree

[Rex]

Originally posted by Stu:

"But if there is no evidence of widespread disapproval of a particular council regulation then it should be respected."

The tyranny of doing what "they" tell you to do and keep your mouth shut in the face of injustice is expressed very well in the words of the following very famous quote:

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
Martin Niemoeller(1892-1984)

Those who applaud or ignore the unfair acts of an unfair administration seem unable to understand that the next target for discrimination may be themselves.

"The tyranny of doing what "they" tell you to do and keep your mouth shut in the face of injustice..."

I wasn't suggesting that, Rex. People are perfectly entitled to question and challenge Council decisions. Councils are entitled - indeed duty bound - to look at the strength of public opinion. If they decide to re-define a naturist beach as a textile-only beach then naturists can make their voices heard - and cast their votes accordingly. But in the final analysis it is a matter for the elected Council to decide and everyone should comply whether they like it or not.

"Those who applaud or ignore the unfair acts of an unfair administration seem unable to understand that the next target for discrimination may be themselves."

What is and is not fair is often a question of subjective judgement - and that means that somebody will always be left to shout "UNFAIR!". The only way to include an objective element is to count the number of people who say "AYE" and the number who say "NAY" and allow the majority decision to preside.

Stu

[Rex]

I'll give you some examples from my own experience Stu.

Some years ago there was a sustained campaign to get an official free beach in a council area north of Perth. This council administered a long coastline, a lot of it reasonably quiet and with several places having a history of "unofficial" nude bathing.

The council decided to have a refendum of electors on the proposal, to coincide with a council election. The feeling was they expected a "no" result. But when a majority of voters chose "yes", the council then said they were not legally obliged to comply with the referendum result.

Sometime after this [and unrelated to the free beach issue], that council was dismissed by the Western Australian state govt for incompetence and dishonesty. The man with the "biggest mouth" on council was barred by his professional association from working in his profession and fled the country to avoid other possible repercussions, hardly a good "character reference".

Many years later, that council area is still without an official free beach.

When my wife and I were living in North Fremantle, we actively campaigned for a free beach. At the time, we lived and ran a business in North Fremantle, I was President of the North Fremantle Community Association and head of the suburb Neighbourhood Watch. We openly swam nude at a relatively quiet North Fremantle beach which had a history of nude bathing going back at least to 1947.

As part of our campaign, we presented the Fremantle city council with a petition of over 1200 signatures for the free beach. I learned a lesson there, the council acknowledged 600 and some signatures and I didn't have a photocopy of the original. An opponent presented a petition against with 200 and some signatures and just guess which petition the council chose to be guided by. During the very well publicised campaign a local newspaper talked to people at random in the Fremantle streets and published the results, 75% support.

We were eventually arrested, got overwhelming public support, the free services of an expensive high profile lawyer and were acquitted.

One of our most outspoken opponents and the "biggest mouth" on the Fremantle council at the time subsequently morally disgraced himself. Some details became public knowledge, but I got to know more than most because of my friendship with a number of media people and members of this person's church community. So much for "morality"!

Where I live now, the council legalised our long used free beach in 1989. Again, I know more than most because my wife and I were invited by an on-side councillor to take an active part in the campaign. A professional public opinion survey, commissioned and paid for by an opponent, found that approx two thirds of respondents were not opposed and 7% were actually using free beaches.

For a council which would claim to be fair and representative, that should have been the end of the matter. But no, it was fought bitterly and some of the nonsense spoken by some of the opponents had to be heard to be believed.

Stu, you claim to support our demands for a fair deal, but you really have no idea what we are usually up against. Even in "laid back" Australia, proudly renowned for "giving everyone a fair go", we usually have to fight for everything we get, when it comes to nude bathing.

Rex

All I want is a fair deal for everyone - the minority naturists and the majority textiles. I have seen plenty of examples where authorities are so sensitive to protect minority interests that they ride roughshod over the rights and comforts of the majority.

Councils should, in my view, have a legal duty to provide naturist beaches proportionate to the number of naturists. But they should also prosecute any infringements vigourously - whether those infringements are committed by gawkers on naturist beaches or by inconsiderate people exposing themselves to innocent people using public places.

Stu

[Rex]

"All I want is a fair deal for everyone - the minority naturists and the majority textiles"

But how about the Fraisethorpe naturists? Victimised because of inappropriate behavior they are not responsible for and over which they have no control. What do you say to them?

"The beach in question is council property. They are allowed to regulate it as they see fit and if they decide that they don't want nudity there - then there shouldn't be any nudity there."

And what are you saying now?

"Councils should, in my view, have a legal duty to provide naturist beaches proportionate to the number of naturists."

Well, what do you REALLY think?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
Rex

All I want is a fair deal for everyone - the minority naturists and the majority textiles.
Stu <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As long as you don't have to deal with your phobias that is.

Cyndiann,

It's not a question of 'phobias'. It's a question of what should and should not be permitted in public places.

The public domain is as much my domain as it is anyone else's and I'm entitled to have a say in how it is regulated. People such as myself (no, I'm not alone) consider that public nudity away from naturist beaches is exhibitionism and, as such, it is offensive and unacceptable.

Stu