Political preferences.

[Revolutionary]

[Revolutionary]

The other day one friend of mine who is a very liberal Democrat was arguing politics with someone she had just met (she does that) and the other person (once they were onto something less political) mentioned something about visiting nude reacreational areas. Well, they both discovered they had something in common. She later was somewhat perplexed because she thought only liberals liked nude recreation. I mentioned to her that I had run into arch conservative Christian fundamentalists (relaxing naked in hotsprings) and that political preferences and nudism seem not to be totally connected.

My question is where would you place yourself on the political spectrum? Is this a diverse crowd here or not?

[cronat]

For us who don't know, what is American and what is Canadian definition of liberal?

[Revolutionary]

I think the Canadians have the same as in most of western Europe. Liberal in the USA generally means being for a more centralized government, doing away with certain traditional views on family, and believing in higher taxes. In Europe and Canada it refers to free markets and less taxes (I don't believe the social issues really factor into the label there).

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Liberal in the USA generally means being for a more centralized government, doing away with certain traditional views on family, and believing in higher taxes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I daresay that is a neo-conservative definition of American liberalism.

Generally American liberals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_liberalism) believe in the supremacy of individual rights and liberties and limiting government authority over people, but accept government's role in regulating corporations to protect the public and environment and free markets.

American conservatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_North_America) tend to support greater government authority over individuals and less economic regulation.

There has been a complete reversal over the last generation in fiscal policy. Today liberals champion fiscal restraint and limited government spending coupled with a progressive tax policy sufficient to pay the bills. Modern conservatives (or neo-conservatives) are fixated on tax cuts under all circumstances and no longer practice any spending restraint.

Many conservative icons of the recent past, such as Senator Barry Goldwater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater), would be considered "liberals" today. " In 1996 he told Bob Dole, who mounted his presidential campaign with less than ecstatic support from hard-line conservatives, "We're the new liberals of the Republican Party. Can you imagine that?"

-Mark

[Revolutionary]

Not sure about that. Like all people there are diferent SPECIFIC interpretations -- but the general definition of today's conservative or liberal gives you at least a general idea. However, let's look at some specific issues:

1) Gun control. A conservative generally believes, like Jefferson, that it is the duty of the individual to own a gun to protect yourself from those who would do you harm as well as to keep the government from centralizing power (he had some great quotes about the individual being supreme over the government).

2) Abortion. Hard issue as there are fiscal conservatives who favor it being legal as a means to reduce welfare and liberals who are against it as they see it as a religious issue or one of protecting human rights. Yet generally conservatives are against abortion.

3) Taxes. Generally the strongest opposition to taxation comes from conservatives.

4) Private property. Liberals on the supreme court recently voted to undercut private property rights by saying that local governments can confiscate property if there is an economic advantage of someone else developing it. So if you have a nudist resort in a beautiful setting, and some city councelers are trying to find a way to shut you down, now they can find a developer promising to build luxery condos on the property and that's the end.

5) Nudity? Well here is where you divide conservatives. Some, not all, of the fundamentalist Christians would close down all nude beaches, require hotspring goers to wear clothes and shut down resorts. However, there is a libertarian streak in many conservatives, even the fundamentalists, who believe (even if they might not be nudists) that as long as you allow them to home-school their kids they will allow you to do things like spend the weekend at a nudist resort.

[hm0504]

Though I think I know where Revolutionary is coming from, I think Naturist Mark's definitions would well on the Canadian scene too.

I think one has to distinguish between social conservatives (ones who want the government to dictate moral behaviour) and fiscal conservatives (ones who do not want the government to dictate moral behaviour and who support minimalist spending).

Of course, the situation is further complicated because what politicans say, and what they do, are often completely opposite. In Canada, as in the U.S., the surest guarantee that one is going to seem massive increases in the deficit is to elect so-called fiscal conservatives. Fortunately, in Canada, we have the Liberal Party who commentators characterise as "campaign from the Left, govern from the Right" which means that they regularly talk about all the spending they are going to do, but then continue to spend as little as they can get away with. Hence, I often vote for them.

[Ben_m]

I can't even define "liberal" and "conservative" well enough any more to even answer. I'd have to say "None of the above". Neither position makes much sense to me and I'm long since tired of their constant fighting with each other often seemingly over nothing.

[Bob S.]

I am a Traditional Republican. I believe in a conservative fiscal policy of less taxes and less spending. Today's US society wants everything, more spending without paying for it.

I also believe in the conservative viewpoint of a smaller government. Unfortunately, I see that is something that neither party wants. The libs want a stronger government for fiscal reasons and the conservatives want a stronger govt for social policy reasons.

Bob S.

[jon71]

Bob S. you sound more like a libertarian when you say small govt. is better. That is certainly not the position of the Republican party. I am a liberal democrat. I want less govt. in people's personal lives but I have no problem with govt. oversight of corporations and industry. Big business does not have our best interests at heart.

[Aaron Adams]

For the record I voted for George W. Bush both times he ran for president. In terms of my political philosophy I think that people should do as much for themselvs as possible be it controlling "bad" businesses, encouraging people to do the right thing, or educating children in the way they think best. Mainly I see it as the role of the government to pick up where the private sector leaves off. Therefore I think government programs to help the less fortunate are a good thing.

[Danee]

Liberal Democrat of course.

[Qikdraw]

Well I'd be more of a Liberal in the Canadian sense, which in the US would be a central position I think. Maybe a bit left of central for me.

I also think the traditional explanations for Democrats & Republicans are way off. The parties aren't the same as they used to, we really should stop linking them to their traditional roots.

Qikdraw

[NudeAl]

I consider myself a conservative Democrat. I don't like big government and I don't think we should pick up the tab for every social program that comes along but I would like to see some form of national medicare. I am all about the rights of the individual over the rights of the state. I vote for the person rather than the party. I would love to see a Democrat more in the style of the old southern conservatives. Recently I have been voting for more and more Republicans as they more closely represent my veiws. I would love to see John McCain run for president but I don't think his party would ever back him.

[Revolutionary]

I know what you mean NudeAl. I was raised in a working class Democratic home. However, I asked the question when getting to the age of voting if I would be welcome in the Democratic party if I ran for office. The answer to that was no.

I don't like abortion but I believe we could do more to provide medical care for the working lower-middle class. I love the environment but I oppose locking up forest lands and seeing timber towns throughout the Pacific Northwest dying out. I think we need to demand more worker's rights and environmental protection as a condition for the Chinese to export to this country but I am mostly a free market sort of guy.

Yeah, the old days of populist Democrats are gone, so maybe millions like me are now Republicans.

[blackrebel]

Funny how Liberals like to spend so much time labeling people, then freak out when they find that they mis-label and their theory is wrong.

Aren't we tired of this Liberal verses Conservative issue?

[Revolutionary]

Yes, I can relate to what you are saying. What I am interested in though is to see if nudists conform to any dominant political leaning. I know this poll is small in number, but it seems to show that there are arch conxervatives who are nudists (which I already knew) but it is nice to be confirmed. I suspect the average Joe on the street believes nudists are all granola eating, Birkenstock fans -- and many are, but there are also people across the political spectrum.

Wonder how many delegates to the Christian Coalition convention or the National Republican Conventions have no tan lines. Bet there are quite a few.

[Trailscout]

"It's definitely cultural. I think we ought to be more like the French in most everything, and the Germans as well. We're way too uptight here; it's a beautiful thing over there". (Rush Limbaugh's comment on nude beaches)