Jaimaica and low cost alternatives to the Big clubs.

[wiz]

HI Folks;

This message gives me a chance to try out the new board and get more info with respect to Jamaica. I posted a while back about RocAlta and that message didn't go far. So far I've not found a comment one way or other on the place, anywhere on the net. So practical experience replies greatly appreciated.

Given that Rocalta might not be the place I want to go to, I could use other comments on clothing optional resorts. We are not talking the high end places but cheaper in price places. If not a resort at least a place with a beach.

If any body has alternative recommendations for islands in the Carribean that have nude beaches or resorts that don't break the bank that would be appreciated also. I really like Jamaica but could go for something less built up and more cost effective.

Dave

[Boreas]

I am interested to see what responses you get. We were in Jamaica last winter and LOVED it. We were near Hedonism II (III?) (Negril) and walked along their beach. I doubt I would go there. The beach wasn't great for one thing.

[wiz]

I am interested to see what responses you get. We were in Jamaica last winter and LOVED it. We were near Hedonism II (III?) (Negril) and walked along their beach. I doubt I would go there. The beach wasn't great for one thing.

Yeah getting up to date info can be a challenge.

A couple of years ago I stayed at Super Clubs Breezes Golf Club and had a great time. They had an excellent beach with a reasonably sized nude facility, with a reef very close to shore. Great for nude snorkeling. Unfortunately they decided to remodel and destroy the nude beach. Kinda sucks as the price was more reasonable than many offerings.

I stayed last year at Hedo 3 and frankly had a much more mixed reaction to the place. One problem being that I don't drink and had to walk away from some of the activities for that. The beach sucked too. I wasn't much bothered by the rest of the resort, but it clearly was more expensive than my value judgment allows for. Maybe booking online through a discounter is in order.

It is nice that there are high end offerings like Braco but that isn't where I want to put my money right now.

Thanks
Dave

[luvtobenude]

We think we'd like to visit Jamaica sometime but many of the resorts that offer nude beaches seem to be expensive or only all inclusive or require a weeks stay. We may be able to stay for a week and are looking for a place with a nude beach that is not too pricey - any ideas?

[Sanslines]

We think we'd like to visit Jamaica sometime but many of the resorts that offer nude beaches seem to be expensive or only all inclusive or require a weeks stay. We may be able to stay for a week and are looking for a place with a nude beach that is not too pricey - any ideas?

Getting to a resort in Jamaica can be a challenge due to crime. Last time my friends went, they were accosted on the beach by a 'banana lady' and the outcome was not pleasant.

[nudepartime]

Look into Sunset Beach Resort. It is a family all inclusive resort with a nude beach. I have never been there but a travel agent friend of mine said is was a good value for the money. You can't be nude around the resort like you can be at the Super Club on the nude side but it seems to be a resonable compromise between nude and $$$$.

[Boreas]

Getting to a resort in Jamaica can be a challenge due to crime. Last time my friends went, they were accosted on the beach by a 'banana lady' and the outcome was not pleasant.

We had NO problems getting to and from resorts or other activities when we were in Jamaica. They have a network of buses for tourists that are very well run. We found the drivers to be awesome. They were generally friendly and even funny. The resorts we were on did not allow "merchants" to wander over unless they were approved. When they were approved, they tended to be in a specific spot and there on specific days. When we were approached by people on the public beaches while we were walking, they were very assertive and would take no for an answer. I only had a problem with a woman who really wanted to braid my hair. I have fairly short, blonde, very fine hair. It would have looked ridiculous. She kept insisting she'd make me beautiful! :rolleyes: (as if I wasn't already. ;))

[EricNY]

. It would have looked ridiculous. She kept insisting she'd make me beautiful! :rolleyes: (as if I wasn't already. ;))


:laugh: Oh boy! That has to be an opening for some smart a** remark.....:lipsrsealed2:

Fortunatley I have good self control :laugh:

[Journeyman]

I've been to Jamaica a couple of times and enjoyed myself, but why limit yourself to this island if you're looking for lesser expensive accommodation than the resorts there?

On Saint Martin, you don't have to stay at Club Orient to use the legally nude Orient Beach. There are several other smaller hotels in the Orient Bay area, some of which have housekeeping units that allow you to make your own meals. In the French West Indies, beaches are for the public and you will not be charged to use the beach, unless you choose to rent one of Club Orient's chaises longue. There are also a wide variety of dining options on Orient Beach - in both the nude and clothed areas.

On Bonaire (direct flights again this winter on Continental from Newark and Houston, as well as Amsterdam on KLM) you've got the charming Sorobon Becah Resort, with a private nude beach (the Dutch West Indies allows private beaches) that is perfect for newbies or those wanting real security. In the shoulder season (April 1 to December 1, I think) the Sorobon's nightly rates are reasonable for the one-bedroom chalets and all have full kitchens, living rooms and porches with hammocks.

Then there are a couple of other smaller places on the Mayan Riviera area outside of Cancun in Mexico. Do some Internet digging! The Caribbean is a big area.
================================================== ==========
Pic shows one of the outdoor showers at the Sorobon and is under copyright (Journeyman), 2004. Model release form on file.

[Sanslines]

We had NO problems getting to and from resorts or other activities when we were in Jamaica. They have a network of buses for tourists that are very well run. We found the drivers to be awesome. They were generally friendly and even funny. The resorts we were on did not allow "merchants" to wander over unless they were approved. When they were approved, they tended to be in a specific spot and there on specific days. When we were approached by people on the public beaches while we were walking, they were very assertive and would take no for an answer. I only had a problem with a woman who really wanted to braid my hair. I have fairly short, blonde, very fine hair. It would have looked ridiculous. She kept insisting she'd make me beautiful! :rolleyes: (as if I wasn't already. ;))

This sounds like an entirely different Jamaica that I was led to believe existed. Of course, someone is safe within the confines of a resort and most tourists are taken directly from the airport to the resort. However, the Jamaica that I was told about does have a serious crime problem and if you go off the beaten trail you can meet all kinds of interesting characters trying to sell you anything and everything including 'instant happiness'. I still recommend 'beware the banana lady!'

[Sanslines]

Pic shows one of the outdoor showers at the Sorobon and is under copyright (Journeyman), 2004. Model release form on file.

Jman, Can we see the model release to make sure that all is proper and what do you charge for royalty fees if we should wish to access your copyright for our personal priviledges?

[Boreas]

if you go off the beaten trail you can meet all kinds of interesting characters trying to sell you anything and everything

Oh we did meet a few characters. I think that though they are definitely persistent, they will back down if you are assertive. I also know that there is crime in Jamaica and that some areas are worse than others. I think things are better during the day than after dark too.

[Journeyman]

Jman, Can we see the model release to make sure that all is proper and what do you charge for royalty fees if we should wish to access your copyright for our personal priviledges?


I've sent you a PM to answer your question.

[Sanslines]

Oh we did meet a few characters. I think that though they are definitely persistent, they will back down if you are assertive. I also know that there is crime in Jamaica and that some areas are worse than others. I think things are better during the day than after dark too.

Seriously now, I am disappointed in the crime and poverty in Jamaica. Most tourists arrive at the airport, are greeted and taken to their resort. Many of the resorts provide their own private security and so walking on the resort beach is safe. However, it is a very different story is anyone takes public transportation, goes it alone to towns and cities, and to non resort beaches. it can be scary and downright dangerous at times!

[Boreas]

Hi Sanslines. I agree with you. It also bothers me that a lot of that tourism money goes back to the US, rather than stay in Jamaica. The resort we went to sent us an e-mail for some contest to win another trip. The company was based in the US and the contest was open only to US citizens. If all the tourism money stayed in Jamaica, things would improve greatly. I am also concerned about what would happen if the tourism tanks. Jamaica would be in real big trouble then.

[Journeyman]

Sanslines wrote:

Seriously now, I am disappointed in the crime and poverty in Jamaica. Most tourists arrive at the airport, are greeted and taken to their resort. Many of the resorts provide their own private security and so walking on the resort beach is safe. However, it is a very different story is anyone takes public transportation, goes it alone to towns and cities, and to non resort beaches. it can be scary and downright dangerous at times!

Boreas wrote:

I agree with you. It also bothers me that a lot of that tourism money goes back to the US, rather than stay in Jamaica. The resort we went to sent us an e-mail for some contest to win another trip. The company was based in the US and the contest was open only to US citizens. If all the tourism money stayed in Jamaica, things would improve greatly. I am also concerned about what would happen if the tourism tanks. Jamaica would be in real big trouble then.
__________________

I am only responding to both your remarks because I've been a travel writer for 14 years and have been involved with the industry for 20. I think it's important not to discourage the readers of these forums with travel information that is more general opinion based on an anecdotal event.

I too have been to Jamaica (twice), and spent time in Kingston, Mandeville, Montego Bay and Negril. This is all since 2000 and at various hotels and resorts, including the expensive Half Moon Bay and the rather silly Hedonism III.

This is what I found personally, but also based on reseach for my articles:

Contrary to what people might think, the big resorts, including the Sandals resorts and the SuperClubs resorts (Hedonism, Club Lido Braco, etc) do give back to the local communities in which they are located. Indeed, to my knowledge, both chains of resorts were founded by native Jamaican families, not US interests. This is a third world country, for all intents and purposes, and it's crucial for private enterprise to donate some of their profits back to help with various community efforts.

When we (a group of journalists) were touring Kingston, we were invited to help distribute a hot lunch to an elementary school in the inner city. We did so, gladly, and the regular sponsor of these lunches was the Jamaican-owned food comany, Grace Foods. It was heartbreaking to see what little school supplies these kids had to work with, but they were the friendliest bunch of schoolkids I have ever met. The government needs to badly step up with funds for education.

In my opinion, when comments are made about a place and they're prefaced with "be careful, don't leave the grounds of the resort" - how do you think the local people feel about that? Yes, there is poverty and crime, but not all Jamaicans are out to fleece the tourist or cause him or her harm -- nor are all Jamaicans poor.

Of all the Caribbean islands I've visited, Jamaica is the most lush and tropical...it's astounding what they can grow agriculturally and how beautiful the landscape is. And it is not a bad thing to find smaller places to stay and to visit the local people in their villages or towns: but like anywhere where there is a big disparity between rich and poor, one does one's homework.

I remember an incident in Cape Town, South Africa that happened to me, on a press trip a couple of years after Mandela was freed. South Africa was also freed from decades of apartheid and was just beginning a new tourism industry. I found myself in the elevator of my hotel with a housekeeper who was dressed in her national attire. She smiled and said, "Hello, sir, are you enjoying my country?"

It was a pivotal moment for me as I realised that for the first time, native South Africans could really call their country their own. And when she followed up with, "Please tell all your friends to come and visit us" -- it made me understand that tourism is the bread and butter of so many countries.

I'm sorry this is so long (and I admit, somewhat anecdotal), but the message is this: don't be afraid of other countries and cultures. We all want the same things ('peace and good government'), and essentially, people are people. When you treat others as equals and with respect when you travel, it makes a "world" of difference to your journey.

[David77]

Many years ago, my sister and I walked the streets of Kingston, Jaimaica exploring the town on our own and had no ugly incident, and enjoyed exploring the town on our own. We then took the public city bus which ordinary Jaimaican citizens take, to view the environment. The Jaimaicans on the bus were not hostile, but a polite group.

We also went to Port Author, Jaimaica and took a raft trip down the river and had only pleasant associations with the Jaimaicans we encountered.

I suppose no society is completely void of crime, so it pays to be allert to pick-pockets especially, on vacation. I hear, but do not know how true it is, that the US Virgin Islands has crime to be warned about.

[Boreas]

Journeyman, thanks for your posts and for clearing up my misunderstanding. I know that I would have been totally overwhelmed if I had rented a vehicle for our first trip. That was mostly due to the difference in traffic patterns and "rules" of the road. I would definitely go back and try a smaller hotel/B&B or whatever and even rent a car, now that I have had a brief intro to Jamaica. I had also understood that the crime issues were being sorted out. As for education, we were shocked to find out that people had to pay tuition for schools, so not everyone could afford to send their kids to school until graduation. I agree, the government needs to step up.

The people I met in Jamaica were wonderful hosts, and loved sharing their country with us. They were also hard workers who knew how to play while they worked.

I would definitely return to Jamaica in a heartbeat, and in fact would love to be able to explore more of the island on my own time. Of course the culture is different, and people are more assertive about asking for tips, selling their products etc. That is part of what makes it an interesting place to visit. I would also definitely recommend that people visit Jamaica.

[Sanslines]

Jam, David, and Still......Thanks for your posts. I am not trying to distort the image of Jamaica. However, the serious crime problems in Jamaica are a major concern to many. If you go to Jamaica as a tourist, are transported from the airport to your resort, and remain within your resort, you will most likely have no problems. However, if you venture out into Jamaica at large, you just may encounter serious problems. The following source is one of many which address the serious crime problems in Jamaica:

Jamaica's Crime Dilemma
By Delano Seiveright (http://www.jamaicans.com/cgi-bin/moxiebin/bm_tools.cgi?author=1;a=2538;s=16_4;site=1)

A Worrying Problem
Crime continues to dominate the everyday lives of us islanders. In 2005 alone the murder tally hovered over 1670. We have yet again broken our own record. Most Jamaicans are now living a life saddled with unabated fear. Our capital city with the exception of Knutsford Boulevard and a few other pockets are largely deserted at nights. It is without a doubt that the impact of rampant crime and violence is being felt across all spheres of our society.

Living on the Edge
Many of us consciously and unconsciously alter our lifestyles in order to enhance that fading semblance of security. Some for the most part intentionally avoid driving through ‘volatile’ communities, disregard traffic signals at late night, refuse to walk even a quarter mile in the day and nights, install low cost to expensive security mechanisms and arm ourselves with knives, machetes, and for the lucky few guns. One seriously wonders how much longer Jamaicans can continue to live a life consumed with fear. For how long can we tolerate living in the ‘murder capital of the world’? And can young people in particular seriously consider living copious and blissful lives in a country where their seems to be a rapidly declining state of law and order.

Heavyhanded Policing
Scholars, politicians, commentators and veranda society have spoken ad nauseam on the causes of all the spiraling crime and violence. There seems to be an emerging consensus on all sides that social and economic conditions along with the criminal justice apparatus would have to be ameliorated before crime and violence can be brought under any real control. Despite this however much of the debate on how to cauterize the mind-boggling spate of crime and violence plaguing our nation, centers on the utilization of Jamaican style heavy handed policing and its typical offshoots of extra judicial killings and the deprivation of human rights. Do you recall by the Minister of National Security and PNP Presidential contender Dr. Peter Phillips’ call for “severe, extreme, resolute measures”?

Social Structure Theories
Conservatives must accept the fact that heavy-handed policing will not break the strong back of Jamaica’s mammoth crime dilemma. There are several criminological theories that emphasise the relation between social and economic factors and the perpetration of crime. Noted American criminologist, Larry Siegel, through his work ‘Criminology’ explored extensively Social Structure theories. Siegel noted “As a group, social structure theories suggest that social and economic forces operating in deteriorated lower class areas push many of their residents into criminal behaviour patterns.” These negative social and economic factors include high unemployment, underemployment, shabby housing, high school drop out rate, single parent households and teenage/young adult gangs.

The Social Class Divide
Though middle and upper income Jamaicans engage in criminal activities they do so at a much lesser frequency. How often does one hear of a Norbrook or Cherry Gardens young male resident being involved in armed robberies and carjackings? And, why is it that our middle and upper income neighbourhoods rarely experience the torment of marauding gunmen engaged in turf warfare? It is a fact that the most violent crimes occurs in poor inner-city communities. Arcadia and Grants Pen are both located in the same geographic area, yet Grants Pen residents are accustomed to standard violent flare-ups whilst Arcadia residents are largely unscathed by such violence. The only nuisance related to violence experienced by Arcadia residents is the sound of gunfire coming across from Grants Pen. The same phenomenon exists across many parts of the Corporate area, St. Catherine and Montego Bay.

Differing Circumstances
Sociologists believe that one’s socialization and social environment shapes behaviour patterns. The average 18-year-old male in upper St. Andrew is much less likely to become a gunman than the average 18-year-old male in South St. Andrew. In this case there is a dramatic disparity between both adolescents. One is given a quality education, lives in comfortable housing, has educated and gainfully employed parents, and is presented with a plethora of options for future satisfaction. The other is socially and economically marginalized with the odds stacked up against him. As such the latter is most likely to go the route of crime.

Solutions
The solutions to our crime dilemma as mentioned above require the immediate amelioration of far too appalling social and economic conditions for the masses. There is also a desperate need for the reform of our ramshackle justice system. Certainly the trend in economic and social statistics over the last decade and a half indicates that our crime dilemma will continue to worsen. The last time Jamaica experienced economic growth was in 1990. Economic growth since then continues to be worryingly sluggish. The economy between the years 1996 and 1999 actually contracted. If our economy continues to perform lethargically talk of reducing crime is just, talk. Sustained and economic growth overtime will bring about a reprieve to many Jamaicans, as overtime employment opportunities will increase substantially. The real test on the part of the government is to ensure that economic expansion isn’t to the benefit of a few but also to ordinary working class Jamaicans.
On the social side dramatic improvements must be made in housing and education. Some positive steps have been made in these areas however they are not significant enough and seem to lack governmental resolve. Government continues to pussyfoot on addressing the wide-ranging problem in education to the continued detriment of our society. Housing is even more distressing. The simple fact that large numbers of Kingstonians lack proper sanitary facilities is an absolute embarrassment.

One cannot of course tackle crime without bringing about considerable improvements to the criminal justice system. G2K, Generation 2000, the young professional affiliate of the Jamaica Labour Party, has over the last couple weeks presented comprehensive and solution rich reports of both the justice system and the police force. These recommendations, some of which can be easily implemented as long as there is the resolve, can go a very far way in eliminating the problems faced by both critical organs of our nation’s security apparatus.

[Journeyman]

That was a very interesting article, Sanslines, and an impassioned plea by a Jamaican writer to stop the violence.

As you could see, he was referring mostly to neighborhoods in Kingston which seem like war zones. The same can be said of Port of Spain, Trinidad in describing certain parts of that capital city. Ditto for Caracas, Venezuela and certainly Johannesburg.

As you mentioned, most tourists opt for the all-inclusives in Jamaica which are not in the Kingston area at all.

My point was that one should research where to vacation, and to avoid problem areas, but not problem countries. In other words, violence is still an issue in parts of South Africa (and Jamaica, and ...and...) but that does not mean that one should not travel to the safer parts of that particular country.

[Sanslines]

That was a very interesting article, Sanslines, and an impassioned plea by a Jamaican writer to stop the violence.

As you could see, he was referring mostly to neighborhoods in Kingston which seem like war zones. The same can be said of Port of Spain, Trinidad in describing certain parts of that capital city. Ditto for Caracas, Venezuela and certainly Johannesburg.

As you mentioned, most tourists opt for the all-inclusives in Jamaica which are not in the Kingston area at all.

My point was that one should research where to vacation, and to avoid problem areas, but not problem countries. In other words, violence is still an issue in parts of South Africa (and Jamaica, and ...and...) but that does not mean that one should not travel to the safer parts of that particular country.

JMan,

True and I was trying to point out tha if someone arrives at the airport in Kingston, is taken to their resort, and remains at their resort where there is resort provided security, then they will have an enjoyable time. Jamaica does have a serious crime problem and problems do arise when the unknowing tourist goes it alone to areas that they may not be familiar with.

As for South Africa, South Africa had a very serious problem with assaults against women. The situation became so bad that women were arming themselves with handguns and driving special cars to prevent carjackings. When the potential carjacker approached the woman's car, the woman would depress a special foot plunger which would cause a wall of fire to erupt from underneath both sides of the car. This would set the assaulting individual on fire and burn him into submission. It seems that the special cars carried an aftermarket kit which included a large propane tank which was fitted into the car's trunk. This was the fuel used to create the 'wall of fire'.

[Journeyman]

First of all, most vacatiioners to Jamaica do not arrive in Kingston, but that is a moot point.

Your comment about South Africa and violence against women could well be valid (and probably is, since I have seen the billboards there decrying rape), but your anecdote does exactly what I'm saying is wrong - why malign a country for isolated incidents and scare people from visiting there?

I am not in this thread to argue with anyone, including you. I simply want to let people know of places I have visited, and that they should have no worries if they do their research.

[Sanslines]

Jman,

Good post. I agree that we are both not here to argue but to present a few tidbits of information. I do need to make one correction. Most tourists arrive at Montego Bay at Sangster International Airport and not at Kingston. For some reason, I was thinking of Kingston yesterday. Cheers!

[wiz]

I've been to Jamaica a couple of times and enjoyed myself, but why limit yourself to this island if you're looking for lesser expensive accommodation than the resorts there?

Well that is a good question. There are a couple of reasons. One being that I haven't seen it all. Another is the English speaking people. I also get the impression that Jamaica can make use of my tourist dollars. By the way one can drink the water in Jamaica and I've yet to get sick on the food.



On Saint Martin, you don't have to stay at Club Orient to use the legally nude Orient Beach. There are several other smaller hotels in the Orient Bay area, some of which have housekeeping units that allow you to make your own meals. In the French West Indies, beaches are for the public and you will not be charged to use the beach, unless you choose to rent one of Club Orient's chaises longue. There are also a wide variety of dining options on Orient Beach - in both the nude and clothed areas.

I've been to Orient Beach, but I think you underestimate the expense of staying there. It is very enjoyable beach wise, but last I looked not a bargain to stay a week or so.



On Bonaire (direct flights again this winter on Continental from Newark and Houston, as well as Amsterdam on KLM) you've got the charming Sorobon Becah Resort, with a private nude beach (the Dutch West Indies allows private beaches) that is perfect for newbies or those wanting real security. In the shoulder season (April 1 to December 1, I think) the Sorobon's nightly rates are reasonable for the one-bedroom chalets and all have full kitchens, living rooms and porches with hammocks.

I will have to look into Bonaire again. Some time ago I was left with the impression that it might be a little to quite there.



Then there are a couple of other smaller places on the Mayan Riviera area outside of Cancun in Mexico. Do some Internet digging! The Caribbean is a big area.

I really don't have any desire to go to Mexico.


================================================== ==========
Pic shows one of the outdoor showers at the Sorobon and is under copyright (Journeyman), 2004. Model release form on file.

A professional photographer?


dave

[wiz]

Oh we did meet a few characters. I think that though they are definitely persistent, they will back down if you are assertive. I also know that there is crime in Jamaica and that some areas are worse than others. I think things are better during the day than after dark too.

I have a friend in Jamaica who tells me about how unsafe it is after dark. I was surprised to hear that as she is on the other side of the island from the big cities. That may be real or her perception, like the other thread related to woman and safety it is sometimes hard to figure out what the fear is. You have to acknowledge it of course.

Frankly there are all sorts of characters that want to sell you something. The problem is that they do it in a way that many American simply are not familiar with. Many people are not prepared or ready to deal with this. A polite but firm NO seems to work wonders. If you get past the sales pitch you may find interesting conversation. conversation that nearly resembles English.

DAve

[wiz]

Seriously now, I am disappointed in the crime and poverty in Jamaica.

A key part of dealing with the poverty is the tourist dollar. It is nice that you are disappointed with the poverty nut staying away doesn't help. As to the crime, Jamaica has British inspired gun control laws, it is no wonder that they have a lot of crime as there are a lot of easy pickings.


Most tourists arrive at the airport, are greeted and taken to their resort. Many of the resorts provide their own private security and so walking on the resort beach is safe. However, it is a very different story is anyone takes public transportation, goes it alone to towns and cities, and to non resort beaches. it can be scary and downright dangerous at times!

There is potential for danger anywhere. Every time I've been to Jamaica though I've seen backpackers hiking across the island. I even meet a single woman that rented and drove a car across the island. It is very possible to go to Jamaica and stay outside the normal resort complexes. If it wasn't for my age and medical condition I'd be interested in a hiking exploration of the island.

Dave

[MoonShadow]

Yes, everyone should research well the places you go to. I, personally, based on my own experience and from friends who lived in Jamaica will not go back there again until the government, special interests, AND the resorts do more to stop the poverty, boost the educational system, get a control of the crime and stop the enormous drug trade.

My friends native Jamaicans) left the area last year and said they will not return if they can help it.

So, yes, it is wise words to look into where you travel to well.

[webbguy]

I am a single male , and I just lost my son to a murder this past July. I am going to Jamaica this Dec. 22 til Jan 2. I am staying at Hedo II after much research. I hope to see the island outside the resort, but I will get in a group from the resort to do so. I hope to meet alot of new friends !

[Boreas]

Have a great trip webbguy. Your resort will likely have many trips of resort to choose from. There's a lot to do around that area. If Hedo II is the one near Negril, you might want to check out the zipline tour aka Canaopy tour. It is amazing. Rick's Grill is fun.

[Journeyman]

I am a single male , and I just lost my son to a murder this past July. I am going to Jamaica this Dec. 22 til Jan 2. I am staying at Hedo II after much research. I hope to see the island outside the resort, but I will get in a group from the resort to do so. I hope to meet alot of new friends !

Hopefully the trip will allow you some rest after your son's passing. My sympathies.

Since you've done some research, you clearly know that Hedo II and III (I visited Hedo III and wrote about it for 'Naturally' magazine a few years ago) isn't exactly a Mom & Pop resort. It's party central, and if this is what you need right now, go for it.

[wiz]

I am a single male , and I just lost my son to a murder this past July. I am going to Jamaica this Dec. 22 til Jan 2. I am staying at Hedo II after much research. I hope to see the island outside the resort, but I will get in a group from the resort to do so. I hope to meet alot of new friends !

Hi webguy;

Sorry to hear about your son!

As to Hedo 2 I can't give you a lot of personal information about Hedo 2 as I have not stayed there. I did stay at Hedo 3 last year during the same approximate time period. All I can say is you best have thick skin if the groups that stay at Hedo 2 are anything like the groups that stay at Hedo 3 for New Years.

Mind you I'm not one to get bent out of shape at seeing sex in one form or another. The problem was more an issue of being around some of the most obnoxious, rude and clickish people I've ever seen. This doesn't represent everybody at the resort, you will meet some very nice people. The worst of the people there seemed to travel in groups so that is something to watch out for.

The other big minus of the resort is that the place isn't even remotely balanced between the number of single men and single woman. I even had one part of a couple tell me the resort was a couples place - news to me. In other words you as a single guy will offend a large number of people at the resort.

Now the question is would I stay at Hedo 2 or 3 again? Well there are a number of considerations. One that started this thread is the expense, I'm not convinced that it is worth the money. Don't get me wrong a number of things are done really well as far as the resort goes, I'm just not convinced that it adds up to hundreds of dollars worth a day. Second; I would try to avoid times when there are known problem groups at the resort. I don't mean just swingers either as I don't believe all the swingers where the problem at the resort when I was there. How to do this reliably is an open question. Third; it might be better to travel with somebody significant if you can. There is a very strong bias at times against single men. Fourth; plan to spend time outside the resort. This is likely where Hedo 2 has a big advantage being in the Negril area.


Now all this being said there are good qualities about Hedo 3 that I can't fail to mention. They where very tolerant of my nudity. I was nude to the extent that I could handle the sun, which isn't a strong point any more for me. The people working at the resort where universally great. Nice facilities including the water slide. The water slide highlighted the fact that I should have gone to such places at a younger age.


To be honest I think at this point you might want to rethink where you are staying. I'm just not sure Hedo would be the best place to be after the type of trauma you have been through. Of course each of us is different but 6 months isn't really that long of a time.

Dave

[wiz]

Yes, everyone should research well the places you go to. I, personally, based on my own experience and from friends who lived in Jamaica will not go back there again until the government, special interests, AND the resorts do more to stop the poverty, boost the educational system, get a control of the crime and stop the enormous drug trade.

While I won't argue with your desire to vacation some place that you perceive as safer, I have to say that staying away won't help the situation much. I honestly believe it makes things worst.

First; taking your tourist dollars someplace else just makes the poverty worst. If you truly concerned about the poverty one of the best things you can do is spend some money in the place in question. Frankly there is no way for the government to stop poverty, nothing has worked in our country why would you expect such to work in a very poor country? Trying to stop poverty often makes things worst as you train a segment of society to be dependent on government.

Yes the educational system has issues. How does a country deal with this when it has very little money and an almost non-existent economy? Just look at the time it takes Jamaica to build a road, not even something we would call a highway.

Crime in Jamaica is directly related to the fact that the people of the country are defenseless. Without a free and secure people you loose all hope of controlling "crime". While poverty is not a good thing, the bigger issue is the lack of hope and opportunity. Since tourism is one of the bright spots in Jamaica at the moment trashing that industry would make things very bad indeed.

The problem with the drug trade and the reason there is little in the way of a functional assault on it, is that it is the other thing that gives people hope. Legal or not it is an avenue that allows one to leave behind the poverty and put ones self to what appears to be productive use. Sadly it is a significant alternative to the other big business in Jamaica.



My friends native Jamaicans) left the area last year and said they will not return if they can help it.

I have a few Jamaicans friends my self. Sadly one of which lost her brother to violence right here in up state NY this year! Does that suggest staying away from up state NY. I don't think so. I also have a friend in Jamaica itself. She is afraid to leave her house after dark, is that any different than people in the cities around here? Would she have this problem if she was a guy, maybe maybe not.



So, yes, it is wise words to look into where you travel to well.

Yes I agree check ahead of time. Just don't believe that you can be 100% safe anywhere in the world. It just isn't going to happen because some people are born bad. Culture or not, opportunity or not, success or not, weapons or not there are people that will do you harm all over the world and there is nothing you as a human can do about it other than to be prepared. The thing with places like Jamaica is that you can have an impact on people that are basically good. Spend a bit in the country and you can change lives for the better. People want to think that they are part of the economy, that they have something to offer and can make it.

Dave

[webbguy]

I seems to me a few people here are are afraid of Hedo II # 1 swingers, #2 crime in town. That is what is wrong with Americans we seem to be afraid of everything!!! That is why we have guns, afraid of hard work, afraid of teaching our kids right from wrong because we are afraid it will offend someone! This America is becomeing the land of the offended. If I want to go to Hedo and be with swingers and have fun , it is my freedom to do so. If I just want to go to relax where there isn't a bunch of screeming kids , I will. The AANR is not going to tell me what to do and franking I won't have anything to do with those nuts anyway. I am fed up with all the offended people , and I will say what I feel any time I want to .