U.S. Mid-term Elections

[Nu]

So, as of this writing, the mid-term elections are a couple of weeks away.

What are the issues? Economy? Foreign Policy? Other?

Who is running?
Any big names?

What is the possible impact on President Bush for the results?

[Nu]

So, as of this writing, the mid-term elections are a couple of weeks away.

What are the issues? Economy? Foreign Policy? Other?

Who is running?
Any big names?

What is the possible impact on President Bush for the results?

[hm0504]

Based on my watchings of the American news, and chats with American friends and relatives, seems to me the one issue not being discussed is how the Taliban appear, 5 years after 9/11, to be but weeks from a decisive victory over NATO forces in Afghanistan. I continue to find it absolutely stunning that Americans are, due to the utter incompetence of the White House, about to undergo one of the most disastrous and embarrassing military defeats in their history (perhaps the most disastrous), and they (well, about 45%) do not seem to give a fig.

[usmc1]

It really does depend on who you are and where you live as to what the speific issues are driving your election during a mid-term.

For example, in Missouri a fairly well-regarded Republican may lose his senatorial seat over his opposition to stem cell research.

But, this time, there are other things that are happening out of sight of the national media that is driving the anger and frustration entire body electorate;

Most seniors are really angry about Medicare plan D and Bush's insistance on turning Social Security over to his wall street masters. They, the seniors, know that he's got money in the 2007 budget to take another run at privatization, and they ain't liking it.

They are hurting and savvy enough to see if changes do not come, their pain will be profound.

Try to tell the suburban home-owner who has a 240K house (real value 150K) on an adjustable rate mortgage which is now beginning to really climb, and who is paying $2.50 a gallon to fill up his Sierra and his wife's Suburban, that the economy is growing.

Try telling the blue collar workers and their spouses who saw those skilled manufacturing jobs go offshore, that flipping greasy hamburgers or greeting at Wal Mart or stocking at Costco ain't really all that bad. I mean, its a job ain't it. Whatcha crying about.

Or tell the one's laid off in Detroit that all they have to do is pick up and move to Sedalia Missouri to find a $9.75 an hour job gutting chickens--ooops, now that the flow of immigrants has ended, its gonna now pay $10.00 and hour..and you're on your own for insurance.

Try telling the fiscal conervatives that the budget deficits are ok, since they're a few billion less than predicted--they're still in the billions, but a few billion less less than aniticpated so things are just hunky dory.

Try telling the social conservatives that you're doing great by them, while at tthe same scorning and ignoring them.

And then there is Iraq. We were lied into it. We were lied to about its progress. We were lied to about its cost and likely duration and when they're pressed on those lies we're hearing our elected officials either launch into some sort of overly-defensive semantic hissy-fit or else tell us to "Back Off"!

Tell the rest of us that hearing our government trying to justify suspension of habeas corpus, unauthorized wiretapping, and various forms of torture, secret prisons and kidnappings is merely something required to "protect" us from "the enemy".

Try telling the middle-class and working class kids that are trying to get a college degree, for jobs that they do not even have a certainty of having waiting for them them, that the $30-$60K debts from student loans will not be a millstone around their necks the rest of their lives.

Try telling the more than 43-million Americans (25% are children) without health insurance about how marvelous our health system is.

Try telling the parents of kids attending public shools (once the very marrow of the backbone of our democracy) that under no-child left behind that not only are there kids being left behind, they ain't even getting in the race.

I have not even touched on the arrogant corruption, arrant amorality, and vicious venality of the party in power and I have given you pleanty of issues which will be driving voters in this mid-term.

There's more, much, much more!

[Nude in the North]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What are the issues? Economy? Foreign Policy? Other? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What matters to me is if the people currently in office have done a good job. Apparently they havn't. Everyone is complaining about something, so it's obvious that the current legislature ( that includes every party represented ) hasn't done it's job.

The solution...

Elect NEW people. It doesn't matter what party they are from. As long as the voters send the message that we want things done, and done RIGHT.

Often people say we don't need term limits because the Voter can simply vote for someone else.

Well.... VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE!

If we keep electing the same people, how can we expect anything to change?

Steve

[Qikdraw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hm0504:
I continue to find it absolutely stunning that Americans are, due to the utter incompetence of the White House, about to undergo one of the most disastrous and embarrassing military defeats in their history (perhaps the most disastrous), and they (well, about 45%) do not seem to give a fig. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One has to see it in the news for people to give a fig. I haven't seen much of anything about Afganistan in US news. Most people have forgotten all about it, because Americans seem to have short term memory.

Qikdraw

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Americans seem to have short term memory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> There's no arguing that..

Here's my issue --
Three years ago I my job was outsourced to India. I was a software developer for an insurance company.

It's happening again. This week the company came around with another round of rate cuts for all contractors. They renewed my contract, but the company has eliminated 20,000 high tech jobs in the US and bought a company in India to shift the work.

Salaries are shrinking. High tech jobs are leaving.

The CEO says, "Get used to it."

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">seems to me the one issue not being discussed is how the Taliban appear, 5 years after 9/11, to be but weeks from a decisive victory over NATO forces in Afghanistan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> A -
Disquieting news, but I point out that a victory over NATO forces does not equate to a defeat for the Americans. Share the wealth, share the burden.

This is another example of my theme. The goal was to topple the Taliban, install a government, and exact retribution for 9/11. OK. Done.

Now why is it that 5 years later we're still over there in an armed struggle? What is today's objective?

If we were allowed to drop the 101st Airborne, roll tanks, and patrol the skies with A-10s and gunships then it'd be a different story.

Or maybe not as the Soviets discovered during the 1980's. Given that experience, why is anyone surprised by this outcome?

That should be a question in an election debate or press conference.

In or out. Grey is a sign a weakness.

[usmc1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hm0504:
I continue to find it absolutely stunning that Americans are, due to the utter incompetence of the White House, about to undergo one of the most disastrous and embarrassing military defeats in their history (perhaps the most disastrous), and they (well, about 45%) do not seem to give a fig. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One has to see it in the news for people to give a fig. I haven't seen much of anything about Afganistan in US news. Most people have forgotten all about it, because Americans seem to have short term memory.

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I'm going to take issue with that military defeat remark. American forces sliced through Irag quicker than ex-lax through the widder woman.

The issue of failure is not one of a military defeat, it is one of an absolute failure in policy and planning at an administative level. The president and his key cabinet officers seemed to have been utterly blind to the consequences of the invasion.

The military is being used to police and act as a militia in a hostile country whose civil infrastruction is in complete collapse and chaos. In the midst of this dismal picture of armed anarchy, the military is being asked to protect, police and regulate elements of the very factions that are waging civil and sectarian and tribal war all about them.

But, all that does not signal military defeat. If we went down to the docks and loaded up today it would not mean that we had suffered a military defeat.

No, it would signal something far, far worse. The resounding failure of our democratic system.

We had no debate leading up to the war. We had no oversight of the war and its progress. We, to this very day, have no clearly stated legitiment reason for being engaged in that war and absolutely no clearly stated conditions for disengagement and exit.

The tragedy is that not only do we have well-meaning Americans accepting this, but, that we still have those who defend it. And that is truly sad, because it signals an overall cultural, and educational, and political, and instituitional defeat of all that once measured our greatness.

We are a nation in decline; our citizens dumbed down, distracted by near-meaningless wedge issues, addicted to the pursuit of pleasure, and unaware that our government is owned by international companies who shape our laws to their benefit and use our military to advance their profits.

All that is not a military defeat. It is sytemic failure and the body politic may be near the point that defibrilation is uselss.

There must now emerge a true leader, and the problem is that there is none on the horizen. Not a single person who is not already a part of what is wrong!

America's defeat in Iraq is not military. The defeat in Iraq belongs to each and every damned one of us. We are failing ourselves.

[LamontCranston]

USMC -

I agree with every word in that post. Every word. These remarks apply to both Afghanistan and Iraq.

It's troubling. And people like Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and Ned Lamont aren't the answer to this big a problem.

We need a white knight, someone like John F. Kennedy. There's an issue with the fabric of our times.

Remember a few weeks ago when Chavez and that wazoo running Iran spoke at the UN? Bush did too. Ho Hum.

What would JFK have said at the same occasion? Or Ronald Reagan?

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There must now emerge a true leader, and the problem is that there is none on the horizen. Not a single person who is not already a part of what is wrong! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There could be one or several on the horizon. But we'll never find out, because of our party-controlled ballot-access regimen. Which was warned against by, I think, George Washington, wasn't it?

Yep, that's a goodly part of our systemic maladies of today. The only candidates allowed to run are those who already support the status quo of the current government.

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There could be one or several on the horizon. But we'll never find out, because of our party-controlled ballot-access regimen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I voted for Ross Perot in 1992.

I lived in New Hampshire during three Presidential primary cycles. You should hear some of the candidates (all parties and persuasions) early on in the process. There is a lot of talent and inspiration out there. Then they get squashed by the Party machinery and requirement for national media pickup and money.

It's a damn shame.

[LamontCranston]

Given what Albinus and Quickdraw say above about Afghanistan, there ought to be negative consequences for an incumbant to issue this sort of press release --

GOP senator cites Dem rival's sexy novels (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/28/MNGM3M1SV61.DTL)

If the GOP incumbant loses down there, he deserves it.

[NudeAl]

I voted for Perot too.

I thought he had the most refreshing outlook on the scene back then.

I am getting to be an old cynic. I don't see anyway in Hell that any new blood will be able to rise through all the political dead weight to get nominated by his party much less elected to office. My hope is that the Democrats will seriously consider someone like Mr Obama. He appears to have been less tainted by all this than most of the others and he is less entrenched in the establishment at least that is the way it appears to me.

Either way the whole system needs an overhaul. It is corrupt, dysfunctional and self serving. It doesn't reflect my beliefs nor does it meet my needs. I think most of America feels this way. The kindling has been laid all we need is the spark to get the fire started.

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LamontCranston:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">seems to me the one issue not being discussed is how the Taliban appear, 5 years after 9/11, to be but weeks from a decisive victory over NATO forces in Afghanistan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> A -
Disquieting news, but I point out that a victory over NATO forces does not equate to a defeat for the Americans. Share the wealth, share the burden.

This is another example of my theme. The goal was to topple the Taliban, install a government, and exact retribution for 9/11. OK. Done.
... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, it would seem to me that if the government that was the main backer of those behind 9/11 (as far as facilities go) that is a major defeat for Americans (and the West).

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hm0504:
I continue to find it absolutely stunning that Americans are, due to the utter incompetence of the White House, about to undergo one of the most disastrous and embarrassing military defeats in their history (perhaps the most disastrous), and they (well, about 45%) do not seem to give a fig. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One has to see it in the news for people to give a fig. I haven't seen much of anything about Afganistan in US news. Most people have forgotten all about it, because Americans seem to have short term memory.

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I'm going to take issue with that military defeat remark. American forces sliced through Irag quicker than ex-lax through the widder woman.

The issue of failure is not one of a military defeat, it is one of an absolute failure in policy and planning at an administative level. The president and his key cabinet officers seemed to have been utterly blind to the consequences of the invasion.

The military is being used to police and act as a militia in a hostile country whose civil infrastruction is in complete collapse and chaos. In the midst of this dismal picture of armed anarchy, the military is being asked to protect, police and regulate elements of the very factions that are waging civil and sectarian and tribal war all about them.

But, all that does not signal military defeat. If we went down to the docks and loaded up today it would not mean that we had suffered a military defeat.

No, it would signal something far, far worse. The resounding failure of our democratic system.

We had no debate leading up to the war. We had no oversight of the war and its progress. We, to this very day, have no clearly stated legitiment reason for being engaged in that war and absolutely no clearly stated conditions for disengagement and exit.

The tragedy is that not only do we have well-meaning Americans accepting this, but, that we still have those who defend it. And that is truly sad, because it signals an overall cultural, and educational, and political, and instituitional defeat of all that once measured our greatness.

We are a nation in decline; our citizens dumbed down, distracted by near-meaningless wedge issues, addicted to the pursuit of pleasure, and unaware that our government is owned by international companies who shape our laws to their benefit and use our military to advance their profits.

All that is not a military defeat. It is sytemic failure and the body politic may be near the point that defibrilation is uselss.

There must now emerge a true leader, and the problem is that there is none on the horizen. Not a single person who is not already a part of what is wrong!

America's defeat in Iraq is not military. The defeat in Iraq belongs to each and every damned one of us. We are failing ourselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I too agree with usmc1 -- as I said before, though not above, the American military has won every battle in Iraq -- it is just the war that is being lost and that is due to solely to the horrendous management from the White House. So my use of the words "military defeat" are perhaps better phrased as "strategic defeat" or something along those lines. I'm open to better wording suggestions.

[hm0504]

OK folks, while looking for a word or phrase that describes the notion of a country with a superb, powerful military losing a war due to the extreme incompetence of its leader, I found this article:
"PYRRHIC VICTORY" OFFICIALLY RENAMED "BUSH VICTORY". More here:
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v1i4pyrrhic.htm

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's troubling. And people like Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, and Ned Lamont aren't the answer to this big a problem.

We need a white knight, someone like John F. Kennedy. There's an issue with the fabric of our times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John Kerry has become quite loquacious lately on what we should do in Iraq. But you do make a good point - even though there ARE democrats that make policy proposals, starting with John Murtha, there has been no weight behind them and no movement. The reason is simple. Democrats have no power. They cannot put a bill on the docket. They cannot convene a hearing. They cannot subpeona witnesses or evidence from war profiteers. They cannot investigate anything. Only the majority party can do that under the present rules, and the current majority party is a rubber stamp that refuses to hold anyone to account.

All new people of the caliber of JFK would be terrific. But just putting a new majority in power would do wonders.

-Mark

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Democrats have no power. They cannot put a bill on the docket. They cannot convene a hearing. They cannot subpeona witnesses or evidence from war profiteers. They cannot investigate anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Not sure that's true. Or I wonder how much of it is really true.

There's a quick hearing into the Foley flap. There's a highway bill, there's a homeland security bill, there's a bipartison base closing commision, there're junkets to foreign lands, there's time on the floor of the House and Senate, there's a rebuttal to the State of the Union Address, there's pork all around, and there are plenty of press conferences.

And if a war profiteer is a public company, those financials, along with campaign contributions, are readily available to anyone. Journalists sniffed out and exposed Iran-Contra in the same sort of political environment we have today. Where's the Washington Post with the front page story and expose?

So, you're right Mark. A bill wouldn't be passed in this environment... or even make it out of committee. But that's not an excuse for not writing one.

Senators Murtha, Kerry and others can do more than speak, but they don't.

And take a look at Social Security Reform, for example. Just because a party controls the White House and Congress doesn't mean everything passes.

[Bob S.]

Nu:"What are the issues? Economy? Foreign Policy? Other?"

Well here in VA, as well I am sure in a few other states, the issues are being drowned out by the hatred espoused in the political ads.

In VA, one of the most talked about issues is the marriage amendment. It would not only deny Constitutionally any homosexual marriage, but also anything relationship benefits resembling those gained by marriages.

The actual wording of the full amendment:\

"That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.

This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage."

It is the second part of the ballot measure that is getting everyone all upset. There have been legal debates regarding how that addition will affect other laws. As of the last poll taken earlier in October, the results were close with a yes vote winning, but the margin of victory closing each time they asked (they had asked in Sept, Aug, and July I think). It is still up in the air as to whether it will pass.

As for me, I am totally against it.

Bob S.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's a quick hearing into the Foley flap. There's a highway bill, there's a homeland security bill, there's a bipartison base closing commision, there're junkets to foreign lands, there's time on the floor of the House and Senate, there's a rebuttal to the State of the Union Address, there's pork all around, and there are plenty of press conferences. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The only hearings held are those the Republican leadership want to hold. The Democratic members can ... sometimes ... ask questions of the witnesses the Republicans agree to bring in, but they have no power to choose who testifies, or to direct the committee staff's research. And there have been several times when Democratic questioning was shut down when it went somewhere the powers that be didn't want - in one case the Republican chairman walked out and had the microphones shut off. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And if a war profiteer is a public company, those financials, along with campaign contributions, are readily available to anyone. Journalists sniffed out and exposed Iran-Contra in the same sort of political environment we have today. Where's the Washington Post with the front page story and expose? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Democrats have no ability to call hearings into war profiteering, and the Republicans have refused. There is an excellent documentary now playing about the rampant outright theft and abuse of the US treasury and our troops - Iraq for Sale (http://iraqforsale.org/) - but we'll have to wait for a Democrat majority to have Congress exercise its oversite responsibility.

-Mark

[Conor B]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naturist Mark:

Democrats have no ability to call hearings into war profiteering, -Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet.

[jon71]

All it takes is a majority which will happen at least in the house, likely in the senate. The just cause is obvious and most Americans will enthusiastically support the truth and justice Democrats will bring to D.C.

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the truth and justice Democrats will bring to D.C. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> So, no changes in policy? No retreat from Iraq and elsewhere? No disbanding of Guantanamo Bay? No repeal of the Homeland Security Act? No accountability of Gulf Coast recovery money? No Social Security reform? No new immigration policy?

All your party is advertising is two years of hearings and blame and finger pointing while hoping to win a Presidential election?

No thanks. I want change here and now. Not a carnival of congressmen contemplating their navels, huffing and puffing and pounding their chests for air time.

[usmc1]

Lamont, you're "begging the question". And, you do a lot of that.

You also use words such "retreat from Iraq". The simple truth of Iraq is this: There needs to be accountability for what in the hell we're doing there; but, now that we're there, we do need to establish an exit strategy that involves some of Iraq's neighbors' positive and constuctive involvement..and, if you'd just once in awhile let your fingers relax and stop jacking your jibs all of the time, you'd hear people such as Joe Biden saying exactly that.

The Democrats have put forth policy changes, it's just no one is listening or they're not hearing what they want to hear.

Come January there will be hearings and oversight and a shift in policy.

As to Social Security reform. The only reforms needed are to raise the cap, shift our spending priorities, put plan D into Medicare so that Medicare can find the lowest bidder as the V.A. does now. Really that is all that is needed.

Just Back Off!

[hm0504]

Two great articles from Eric Margolis and Michael Harris on, respectively, the U.S. Mid-Term elections and Afghanistan:

"The Final Say":
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric...6/10/29/2165080.html (http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2006/10/29/2165080.html)

"Fat Chance of Winning War":
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Harris_Michael...6/10/27/2144383.html (http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Harris_Michael/2006/10/27/2144383.html)

C'mon now, I'm not going to cut and paste the articles -- you do have to click on the links ;-)

[Naturist Mark]

Both Democrats and Republicans miss the point when they talk about winning or losing the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. They are making the mistake that we are in military conflicts there.

We aren't.

We fought very brief wars in both countries. We defeated their militaries and toppled their regimes within weeks. The American military is the most awesome and formidable war machine in human history - no one can stand up to us in war.

What our military can't do is police and administer a foreign nation that doesn't accept us. We have never been competent imperialists, we couldn't do it in the Philippines a century ago, in South Vietnam a 40 years ago, nor in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The only times we are successful is when we displace or overwhelm the native populations - as in our continental expansion (manifest destiny), or when we were more or less welcomed by the populace - as in Germany and Japan.

We propped up indigenous governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, but neither enjoys widespread support from the populace. Outside forces have caused mischief - from Iran, from Pakistan, from foreign Islamist movements, but those forces are inconsequential without a large indigenous movement.

There are successes - the Kurdish north is relatively stable - ironically it is the only region that has the same basic government now as before the conquest - because George HW Bush and Bill Clinton had our military protect them from Saddam - which allowed a stable leadership from within the populace to rise. That may be the only way out left for the rest. But it would mean partition and movement of populations. I don't see any possible outcome that could be considered a 'win'.

To everyone who asks if we want to win in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or shouldn't we stay until we win, I have to ask what is your definition of winning? Under our present policies every month we stay, conditions have become worse - that is a clear sign of failed policy - unless chaos is the goal.

So tell me all you <STRIKE>stay the course</STRIKE> adapt to win proponents ... what is your goal, what do you mean by "win", and how do we get there?

-Mark

[usmc1]

Mark, et al. Here's the end game in very simplistic terms. Here's the real reason why we're there and why all dialogue and debate about the war is meaningless unless one take these things into consideration.

In addition to the embassy, we are building at least three huge air bases. That's it, we want the oil fields and we want those bases in order to have a place from which to "launch" (so to speak) against Central & Southern Asia & the PRC. Sort of like playing RISK, huh? Real simple, huh? Couldn't just up and do it though, now could we. Had to have a "reason", WMD, bloody dictator, installing a new form of contagious democracy..take your pick, but meanwhile, we're going to build us some airbases and secure those oil fields.

Ivan is not even close to comfortable with us there, which is why they continue to broker Syria, Hamas and Iran as their cat's paws in the region. As we do with Israel. The Persians are playing a double and even triple game against Ivan, Uncle Sam and the chi-coms.

Anyone who thinks that flare up in Lebanon was anuthing other than the USA & Russia throwing stones at each other is naive. Thing of it is, Israel dribbled on their toes and we got handed our teeth!

Ok. The short version of our options are; we either go all in, or we count up our chips and cash in and head for the buffet and try to figure out a different approach.

The problem with "all in" is this. Ivan still has about 7,000 warheads aimed at downtown Des Moines when all it would take to bring on a worlwide nuclear winter is about 2,000.

This feeking administration completely misplayed the game and is locked into a scenario of events which all but predicates their going "all in" which has the real potential having the survivors living in mud huts and competing with the roaches and rats for sustenance.

I am not even certain, at this point, that a Democratic congress could effectively intervene. We're fast approaching the point that it would take the generals going public and hamstinging the administration. They've tried it by using their retirees as spokesmen, but that has not resonated. It will take active-duty, high-level military people speaking as one to end the insanity. and I'm not certain that this cadre of cowardly careerists in the pentagon have the balls.

I just wish Hackworth was still around.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0805-09.htm

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:

I just wish Hackworth was still around.
...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too; SFTT just hasn't been the same without him.

[NudeAl]

Interesting perspective. I had not looked at it in those terms. I think you may be very close to the truth. I wonder if anyone will step forward and say the emperor has no clothes,so to speak. I mean anyone who will have enough crediblity to generate some action. I doubt it, though it would seem if there ever was a time for someone to do that it would be now.

Just FYI Marine reserve units will begin going on their second tours of duty in Iraq next year. I'm not aware if this has ever happened before. Many active units have been over 4 or 5 times so far.

[hm0504]

"Tony Blair faced a devastating attack yesterday as one of his most trusted military commanders described Britain's mission in southern Afghanistan as 'cuckoo'.":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...3336&in_page_id=1770 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=413336&in_page_id=1770)

[usmc1]

Let's see the Terror Alert is Elevated and the fleet is saber rattling in the Red Sea, Persian Gulf and Arabian Gulf. Must be an election coming up.

Maybe just maybe, if we scare enough people, or provoke Iran into lashing out at us, we can stave off the Democrats.

If that don't work, hell we can still can go "all in". Stinkin' elections we don' need no stinkin' elections.

US-Led Military Thrust Focuses Heavily on Broad Naval Deployment

DEBKAfile Exclusive Military Report

October 30, 2006, 11:53 AM (GMT+02:00)

Hundreds of US and allied war ships foregathered in the strategic seas of the Middle East and India in the last days of October 2006 for two primary missions: To prepare for a US-led military strike against Iran which has stepped up its uranium enrichment program with a second centrifuge project - undeterred by the prospect of UN sanctions; and measures to fend off palpable al Qaeda threats to oil targets.

DEBKAfile’s military sources provide details of the massive deployments:

1. A large-scale US-Indian sea exercise called Malabar 06 is in progress off the Indian coast of Goa, ending Nov. 5. The American vessels taking part are the USS Boxer carrier, the USS Bunker Hill guided missile battle cruiser, the guided missile destroyer USS Howard and the USS Benfold , as well as the Los Angeles-class nuclear attack submarine Providence and the Canadian guided missile frigate HMCS Ottawa .

Indian maritime might is displayed with its warships like INS Beas , INS Mysore , INS Shakti , INS Ganga , tanking ship INS Gharial , submarine INS Shankush and Coast Guard ship CGS Samar

Malabar also involves the landing of large number of soldiers ashore, ahead of the Indian acquisition of the massive amphibious USS Trenton transport dock which can carry six helicopters and about a 1000 soldiers.

Our Tehran sources report that last Thursday, Oct. 26, Iranian officials were seriously rattled by a rumor that an Iranian spy plane had located the USS Boxer heading for the Persian Gulf. It prompted fears of an imminent American military assault to lift Republican prospects in the coming US midterm elections of Nov. 7. In any case, the Iranians suspect that at the end of the joint US-Indian exercise in the Arabian Sea, Boxer will veer west and head into the Persian Gulf. There would then be four US air carriers with task forces parked opposite Iranian shores, including the USS Enterprise Strike Group, the USS Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group and the USS Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group, which are already in place.

According to the intelligence reaching Iran, the Boxer and its escorts carry 850 Marines who have just spent months in special training for operations on offshore oil rigs and platforms.

2. American, Italy, France, Britain, Australia, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait are taking part in an exercise practicing the interception of ships carrying nuclear materials or components for use in advanced weapons. The exercise opposite Bahrain is the first to be held in the Persian Gulf under the three-year old proliferation security initiative. It applications could be translated equally into the enforcement of sanctions against North Korea, which conducted its first nuclear test on Oct. 9, or Iran.

On Oct. 27, Robert Joseph, the US undersecretary of state for arms control remarked: “From Iranian news reports we know the exercise got the attention of Iran.” But rather than climbing down, Tehran referred two days later to the war games as “adventurous” and placed its armed forces on a high alert which encompassed the joint naval units of the military and Revolutionary Guards in the Persian Gulf, while the Revolutionary Guards, the Iranian army, navy and air force were placed on “yellow” alert, one level short of full war.

Also Oct. 29, , supreme ruler Ayatollah Ali Khamenei replaced Iran’s air force chief, Karim Qavami with Brig Gen Capt Ahmad Miqani, on the recommendation of the Revolutionary Guards commander.

DEBKAfile’s Iran sources report that Khamenei did not approve of Qavami’s admiration for America’s military capabilities – especially the US air force’s advanced aircraft and equipment. Qavami was wont to speak out at general staff meetings in favor of procuring a new air fleet the better to stand up to a possible US attack. His successor follows the supreme ruler unquestioningly and has complete faith in the ability

3. Saudi Arabia did not join the multinational Bahrain exercise, but instead mustered its entire navy and all its special forces for deployment in dense defensive array around the biggest oil terminal in the world, at Ras Tanura. Riyadh acted in response to tangible intelligence that al Qaeda is preparing to attack its oil installations.

Warnings have intensified in recent days of impending al Qaeda attacks on the oil fields, oil ports, oil tankers and oil fields of Saudi Arabia and the Arabian oil emirates. One threat specifically targets the Bahraini offices and staff of the Benin Republic’s Societe Togolaise de Gaz and Societe Bengaz S.A.

It is not clear exactly why al Qaeda is targeting this African-owned oil company in particular. In addition, the US embassy in Riyadh has warned Americans operating in the Gulf region to stay clear of all oil installations, especially in Saudi Arabia. Another pointed alert covers Western residential compounds in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries, specifying American expatriates as al Qaeda targets. Saudi security forces are standing guard at these compounds which were fatally attacked in November exactly three years ago.

4. The fourth major naval concentration is deployed in the Red Sea along Saudi Arabia’s west coast. The oil kingdom has placed its military and fleet at their highest level of preparedness for Al Qaeda-instigated terrorist attacks along this coast, particularly at the ports of Jeddah and Yanbu.

DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources report: That the Saudis have by and large switched their defenses against al Qaeda to coastal targets indicates the receipt of intelligence input of a new local sea base established by al Qaeda, which enables the jihadist group to stretch its capabilities for assaulting oil and Western shore targets from the sea. This base might be located on the shore of a Gulf nation, somewhere in the Arabian Sea or in the Horn of Africa.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NudeAl:
Interesting perspective. I had not looked at it in those terms. I think you may be very close to the truth. I wonder if anyone will step forward and say the emperor has no clothes,so to speak. I mean anyone who will have enough crediblity to generate some action. I doubt it, though it would seem if there ever was a time for someone to do that it would be now.

Just FYI Marine reserve units will begin going on their second tours of duty in Iraq next year. I'm not aware if this has ever happened before. Many active units have been over 4 or 5 times so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That reminds me of a letter from a Marine in Iraq that has been making the rounds lately. It's a cogent reminder that there are people on the ground paying for the decisions made thousands of miles away.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Editors Note: This email was forwarded from a Marine in Iraq who chooses to remain anonymous. Semper Fi, XXXXX

All: I haven't written very much from Iraq. There's really not much to write about. More exactly, there's not much I can write about because practically everything I do, read or hear is classified military information or is depressing to the point that I'd rather just forget about it, never mind write about it. The gaps in between all of that are filled with the pure tedium of daily life in an armed camp. So it's a bit of a struggle to think of anything to put into a letter that's worth reading. Worse, this place just consumes you. I work 18-20-hour days, every day. The quest to draw a clear picture of what the insurgents are up to never ends. Problems and frictions crop up faster than solutions. Every challenge demands a response. It's like this every day. Before I know it, I can't see straight, because it's 0400 and I've been at work for twenty hours straight, somehow missing dinner again in the process. And once again I haven't written to anyone. It starts all over again four hours later. It's not really like Ground Hog Day, it's more like a level from Dante's Inferno.

Rather than attempting to sum up the last seven months, I figured I'd just hit the record setting highlights of 2006 in Iraq. These are among the events and experiences I'll remember best.

Worst Case of Déjà Vu - I thought I was familiar with the feeling of déjà vu until I arrived back here in Fallujah in February. The moment I stepped off of the helicopter, just as dawn broke, and saw the camp just as I had left it ten months before - that was déjà vu. Kind of unnerving. It was as if I had never left. Same work area, same busted desk, same chair, same computer, same room, same creaky rack, same . . . everything. Same everything for the next year. It was like entering a parallel universe. Home wasn't 10,000 miles away, it was a different lifetime.

Most Surreal Moment - Watching Marines arrive at my detention facility and unload a truck load of flex-cuffed midgets. 26 to be exact. I had put the word out earlier in the day to the Marines in Fallujah that we were looking for Bad Guy X, who was described as a midget. Little did I know that Fallujah was home to a small community of midgets, who banded together for support since they were considered as social outcasts. The Marines were anxious to get back to the midget colony to bring in the rest of the midget suspects, but I called off the search, figuring Bad Guy X was long gone on his short legs after seeing his companions rounded up by the giant infidels.

Most Profound Man in Iraq - an unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines (searching for Syrians) if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

Worst City in al-Anbar Province - Ramadi, hands down. The provincial capital of 400,000 people. Killed over 1,000 insurgents in there since we arrived in February. Every day is a nasty gun battle. They blast us with giant bombs in the road, snipers, mortars and small arms. We blast them with tanks, attack helicopters, artillery, our snipers (much better than theirs), and every weapon that an infantryman can carry. Every day. Incredibly, I rarely see Ramadi in the news. We have as many attacks out here in the west as Baghdad. Yet, Baghdad has 7 million people, we have just 1.2 million. Per capita, al-Anbar province is the most violent place in Iraq by several orders of magnitude. I suppose it was no accident that the Marines were assigned this area in 2003.

Bravest Guy in al-Anbar Province - Any Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician (EOD Tech). How'd you like a job that required you to defuse bombs in a hole in the middle of the road that very likely are booby-trapped or connected by wire to a bad guy who's just waiting for you to get close to the bomb before he clicks the detonator? Every day. Sanitation workers in New York City get paid more than these guys. Talk about courage and commitment.

Second Bravest Guy in al-Anbar Province - It's a 20,000 way tie among all the Marines and Soldiers who venture out on the highways and through the towns of al-Anbar every day, not knowing if it will be their last - and for a couple of them, it will be.

Best Piece of U.S. Gear - new, bullet-proof flak jackets. O.K., they weigh 40 lbs and aren't exactly comfortable in 120 degree heat, but they've saved countless lives out here.

Best Piece of Bad Guy Gear - Armor Piercing ammunition that goes right through the new flak jackets and the Marines inside them.

Worst E-Mail Message - "The Walking Blood Bank is Activated. We need blood type A+ stat." I always head down to the surgical unit as soon as I get these messages, but I never give blood - there's always about 80 Marines in line, night or day.

Biggest Surprise - Iraqi Police. All local guys. I never figured that we'd get a police force established in the cities in al-Anbar. I estimated that insurgents would kill the first few, scaring off the rest. Well, insurgents did kill the first few, but the cops kept on coming. The insurgents continue to target the police, killing them in their homes and on the streets, but the cops won't give up. Absolutely incredible tenacity. The insurgents know that the police are far better at finding them than we are. - and they are finding them. Now, if we could just get them out of the habit of beating prisoners to a pulp .. . .

Greatest Vindication - Stocking up on outrageous quantities of Diet Coke from the chow hall in spite of the derision from my men on such hoarding, then having a 122mm rocket blast apart the giant shipping container that held all of the soda for the chow hall. Yep, you can't buy experience.

Biggest Mystery - How some people can gain weight out here. I'm down to 165 lbs. Who has time to eat?

Second Biggest Mystery - if there's no atheists in foxholes, then why aren't there more people at Mass every Sunday?

Favorite Iraqi TV Show - Oprah. I have no idea. They all have satellite TV.

Coolest Insurgent Act - Stealing almost $7 million from the main bank in Ramadi in broad daylight, then, upon exiting, waving to the Marines in the combat outpost right next to the bank, who had no clue of what was going on. The Marines waved back. Too cool.

Most Memorable Scene - In the middle of the night, on a dusty airfield, watching the better part of a battalion of Marines packed up and ready to go home after six months in al-Anbar, the relief etched in their young faces even in the moonlight. Then watching these same Marines exchange glances with a similar number of grunts loaded down with gear file past - their replacements. Nothing was said. Nothing needed to be said.

Highest Unit Re-enlistment Rate - Any outfit that has been in Iraq recently. All the danger, all the hardship, all the time away from home, all the horror, all the frustrations with the fight here - all are outweighed by the desire for young men to be part of a 'Band of Brothers' who will die for one another. They found what they were looking for when they enlisted out of high school. Man for man, they now have more combat experience than any Marines in the history of our Corps.

Most Surprising Thing I Don't Miss - Beer. Perhaps being half-stunned by lack of sleep makes up for it.

Worst Smell - Porta-johns in 120 degree heat - and that's 120 degrees outside of the porta-john.

Highest Temperature - I don't know exactly, but it was in the porta-johns. Needed to re-hydrate after each trip to the loo.

Biggest Hassle - High-ranking visitors. More disruptive to work than a rocket attack. VIPs demand briefs and "battlefield" tours (we take them to quiet sections of Fallujah, which is plenty scary for them). Our briefs and commentary seem to have no affect on their preconceived notions of what's going on in Iraq. Their trips allow them to say that they've been to Fallujah, which gives them an unfortunate degree of credibility in perpetuating their fantasies about the insurgency here.

Biggest Outrage - Practically anything said by talking heads on TV about the war in Iraq, not that I get to watch much TV. Their thoughts are consistently both grossly simplistic and politically slanted. Biggest offender - Bill O'Reilly - what a buffoon.

Best Intel Work - Finding Jill Carroll's kidnappers - all of them. I was mighty proud of my guys that day. I figured we'd all get the Christian Science Monitor for free after this, but none have showed up yet. Talk about ingratitude.

Saddest Moment - Having the battalion commander from 1st Battalion, 1st Marines hand me the dog tags of one of my Marines who had just been killed while on a mission with his unit. Hit by a 60mm mortar. Cpl Bachar was a great Marine. I felt crushed for a long time afterward. His picture now hangs at the entrance to the Intelligence Section. We'll carry it home with us when we leave in February.

Biggest ***-Chewing - 10 July immediately following a visit by the Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister, Dr. Zobai. The Deputy Prime Minister brought along an American security contractor (read mercenary), who told my Commanding General that he was there to act as a mediator between us and the Bad Guys. I immediately told him what I thought of him and his asinine ideas in terms that made clear my disgust and which, unfortunately, are unrepeatable here. I thought my boss was going to have a heart attack. Fortunately, the translator couldn't figure out the best Arabic words to convey my meaning for the Deputy Prime Minister. Later, the boss had no difficulty in convening his meaning to me in English regarding my Irish temper, even though he agreed with me. At least the guy from the State Department thought it was hilarious. We never saw the mercenary again.

Best Chuck Norris Moment - 13 May. Bad Guys arrived at the government center in the small town of Kubaysah to kidnap the town mayor, since they have a problem with any form of government that does not include regular beheadings and women wearing burqahs. There were seven of them. As they brought the mayor out to put him in a pick-up truck to take him off to be beheaded (on video, as usual), one of the bad Guys put down his machinegun so that he could tie the mayor's hands. The mayor took the opportunity to pick up the machinegun and drill five of the Bad Guys. The other two ran away. One of the dead Bad Guys was on our top twenty wanted list. Like they say, you can't fight City Hall.

Worst Sound - That crack-boom off in the distance that means an IED or mine just went off. You just wonder who got it, hoping that it was a near miss rather than a direct hit. Hear it every day.

Second Worst Sound - Our artillery firing without warning. The howitzers are pretty close to where I work. Believe me, outgoing sounds a lot like incoming when our guns are firing right over our heads. They'd about knock the fillings out of your teeth.

Only Thing Better in Iraq Than in the U.S. - Sunsets. Spectacular. It's from all the dust in the air.

Proudest Moment - It's a tie every day, watching my Marines produce phenomenal intelligence products that go pretty far in teasing apart Bad Guy operations in al-Anbar. Every night Marines and Soldiers are kicking in doors and grabbing Bad Guys based on intelligence developed by my guys. We rarely lose a Marine during these raids, they are so well-informed of the objective. A bunch of kids right out of high school shouldn't be able to work so well, but they do.

Happiest Moment - Well, it wasn't in Iraq. There are no truly happy moments here. It was back in California when I was able to hold my family again while home on leave during July.

Most Common Thought - Home. Always thinking of home, of Kathleen and the kids. Wondering how everyone else is getting along. Regretting that I don't write more. Yep, always thinking of home.

I hope you all are doing well. If you want to do something for me, kiss a cop, flush a toilet, and drink a beer. I'll try to write again before too long - I promise.

Semper Fi, [/list]

-Mark

[nacktman]

Thank you, Mark.

Semper Fi,
Oo-Rah!

[usmc1]

The dog is being wagged! US Media is ignoring the preparations for a pre-election strike against Iran.

Exclusive to DEBKAfile’s military sources: US aircraft carriers USS Eisenhower and USS Enterprise in the Red Sea off the Saudi Arabian coast

November 1, 2006, 2:20 PM (GMT+02:00)

The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Eisenhower, and its accompanying carrier strike group, passed through the Suez Canal on Monday, Oct. 30, and arrived in the Red Sea on Tuesday, Oct. 31. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the USS Eisenhower is at sea off the Saudi Arabian coast, together with another aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise. The presence of the two US aircraft carriers, and their accompanying strike groups, in a body of water as small as the Red Sea is an extraordinary development. So far there have been no indications that the USS Eisenhower arrived to replace the USS Enterprise. US Intelligence director John Negroponte also is in the region. He was in Saudi Arabia over the weekend and in Cairo on Tuesday, and is due to arrive in Israel on Wednesday, Nov. 1. With the arrival of the USS Eisenhower in the region, there are now three US aircraft carriers in the Persion Gulf and surrounding waters, including the USS Iwo Jima. Accompanying the USS Eisenhower are the guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio, the guided-missile destroyers USS Ramage and USS Mason and the nuclear-powered fast-attack submarine USS Newport. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that a fourth US aircraft carrier, the USS Boxer, will arrive on the scene by the beginning of next week, together with its carrier strike group. The USS Boxer is currently taking part in joint US-Indian naval maneuvers, dubbed Malabar ’06, which include the landing of marines on beaches.

[shomymojo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by usmc1:
The dog is being wagged! US Media is ignoring the preparations for a pre-election strike against Iran.]...USMC1...suppose you are right about this...exactly how is starting another war like this in the middle east supposed to help the Republicans in the mid-term elections ?...seems to me that it would ensure a Democratic victory...from a war weary voting public...and it makes me go Hmmmmmmmm

[Baron Lake]

When the Turner Joy (or Maddox?) is attacked by the Iranian gunboats....will martial law be far behind? Oh wait. Maybe I'm getting things mixed up with the Gulf of Tonkin task force.

Must be some sort of flashback.

b.l.

[usmc1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shomymojo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by usmc1:
The dog is being wagged! US Media is ignoring the preparations for a pre-election strike against Iran.]...USMC1...suppose you are right about this...exactly how is starting another war like this in the middle east supposed to help the Republicans in the mid-term elections ?...seems to me that it would ensure a Democratic victory...from a war weary voting public...and it makes me go Hmmmmmmmm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Desperate people do desperate things.

The Rovian message would be:

We warned you about the Axis of Evil and the soft-on-crime.oops, soft-on-drug...ooops terror, yeah that's it! the soft-on-terror, democrats who can't be trusted during this war time crises.

The problems the GOP faces right now is not as much national angst and a leaning towards democratic candidiates, as it is an erosion and lethargy among their base.

Air strikes against Iran would certainly mobilize that base and play the "we're fearful to make a change to the democrats" fear card.

It is a scenario which plays well for a party and administion hunkered down in the bunker and which has already shown a tendency toward pathologically irrational behavior in pursuit of its domestic and world agendae.

If you read the article, you would have noted the key substance of the piece: one does not mass one's naval forces in a small geographic area unlesss one is preparing to strike or bluffing a strike. There are absolutely no other reasons for this gathering of power. It is comparable to the preparations for Desert Storm and latter, the invasion of Iraq.

Something's coming down, and if it ain't Iran then it is Israel getting ready to lash out again and we're setting up shop to assist them.

I can't say for certain that the deed will be done, but, I've got to tell you, the indicators are there. There is a deafening cacphony of noise in Intel circles--so noisy in fact, that one wonders again, where is our media? Even the left is missing this.

But, your point that such an action would benefit the Dems is not well thought out through. Again, it would mobilize the base & trigger the innate uncertainty that voters have when alone in the booth and about to change their congress person. It would confirm for those already opposed why they're opposed but I doubt it would drive independents and so forth to the Democrats.

And jsut a quick word about the site. Debka file is a know Mossad front site. You can say many things about Mossad, but you can rarely say they're wrong.

So, the forces are massing. What that means is still open to interpretation--for some.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I sure as hell hope so.

We'll see.

[usmc1]

I wouldn't be dropping no light bulbs around the region.

Iran to start military maneuvers days after Western-led drills in Gulf
Updated 11/1/2006 3:42 PM ET
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran unexpectedly announced Wednesday that it would be holding military maneuvers in the Gulf this week, only days after U.S.-led navies held exercises in the same waterway.
Iranian state television quoted the head of the Revolutionary Guards, Gen. Yahya Rahim Safavi, as saying the 10-day maneuvers, named "Great Prophet," would take place in the Gulf and the Sea of Oman, beginning Thursday.

"The war games are aimed at demonstrating the deterrent power of the guards against possible threats," Safavi said.

Safavi stressed the drills were not a threat to neighboring countries, saying: "Our neighbors are our friends. The guards just want to prove that they ready to resist in any threatening situation."

His announcement came two days after U.S.-led warships finished a two-day maneuver in the Gulf — an exercise that Iran described as "adventurist." Iran said the drills involving the United States and five other nations would not improve security in the Gulf waters, through which about 20% of the world's oil passes.

Iran also called on Gulf nations to set up their own regional security arrangements.

The U.S.-led maneuvers focused on surveillance, with warships tracking a ship suspected of carrying components of illegal weapons. The nations that took part were Australia, Bahrain, Britain, France, Italy and the United States.

Iran regularly holds large maneuvers, often using them to test weapons developed by its arms industry.

On Wednesday, Safavi told state TV: "The guard's air force will test fire the Shahab-3 (missile), equipped with cluster warhead, in the war game."

The Shahab-3 missile is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and has a range of more than 1,242.8 miles. It can reach Israel and U.S. forces in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Russia on Wednesday defended Moscow's deal to supply air defense missiles to Iran, saying they were purely defensive weapons with a limited range.

"I wish to underline that these systems cannot be used in offensive operations," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov told Russia Today television in an interview broadcast early Wednesday. "Secondly, they have a limited use as they are capable of protecting a small part of the Iranian territory."

Moscow has refused to bow to Western pressure and cancel its $700 million contract to sell 29 Tor-M1 air defense missile systems to Iran which was signed last December.

[Naturist Mark]

"Liberal Media" Needs to Apologize (http://bluehorde.blogspot.com/2006/11/liberal-media-needs-to-apologize.html)

Just about the entire American broadcast media establishment willfully misrepresented remarks by John Kerry to falsely imply he had insulted the intelligence of the American troops in Iraq.

On the day before Halloween, one week before what promised to be a disasterous midterm election for the Republicans, all discussion of the policy failures, criminal misdeeds, and the leadership fiasco in the Iraq war was put aside because of the "botched joke" by John Kerry that was characterized as insulting the troops.

Of course it was nothing of the kind.

Kerry was insulting George Bush - not the troops. A fact that everyone with a pulse who was present at the speech in Pasadena that morning was aware. He made several jabs at Bush, including "George Bush used to be from the state of Texas, now he is from the state of denial," followed by the only two sentences the rest of America ever heard from the speech “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” - those present understood from the context that Kerry was talking about George Bush. His "botch" was to leave out the word "us" as in "you get us stuck in Iraq."

But none of the rest of us knew the context. The media carefully edited out the context and repeatedly and only played a 4 second clip of only the two sentences. Absolutely none included his previous sentences or made it clear that the context was Bush's lack of attention to details that led us to the Iraq fiasco.

Got that?

The entire US broadcast media participated in disseminating a carefully edited smear.

Alone in the broadcast media only Keith Olbermann (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/) and Chris Matthews (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VknpwDtIaF4) seemed to be able to report the truth - on cable.

The rest of the broadcast media (http://mediamatters.org/items/200611010012) continued to uncritically shill for the GOP.

So much for the "Liberal Media" myth, unless "Liberal" means to willfully participate in spreading false propaganda to benefit the conservative establishment. Is that what it means?

It is time for the "Liberal Media" to apologize to the troops for deliberately selling them the lie that John Kerry had insulted them.

And then you and I, dear reader, should apologize for believing them, even if just for a moment.

-Mark

[hm0504]

Now the Republicans are suspicious of certain electronic voting machines!:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/washington/29ballot.h...=rssuserland&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/washington/29ballot.html?ex=1319774400&en=e52b50315a24d3f8&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

[nacktman]

72% of American voters are expecting an average or higher than average voter turnout tomorrow (32% saying average, 38% saying above average and 8% saying way above average).

Which does not bode well for the conservatoids who as ever are praying to their false idols for a lower than average turnout so they can more easily rig the results.

Only 20% think the turnout will be below average.

Funny thing is those percent numbers are the same or nearly the same in every survey on any subject relating to the political arena 3/4 against the criminal cabal and 1/4 their mindless syncophants ... never has there been such a consistent margin over this long a period of time on every issue ... the broom is sweeping the refuse out the door folks.

[usmc1]

I think we'll see the usual GOP ploy of claiming victory from the Democrats "failure" to achieve absurdly high expectations as fanned by the GOP spin machine. Anything less than the Dems taking both the Senate and congress will be claimed as victory and more political capital for that pathological little man in the White House.

My real expectation is that the Dems will take back the House by a narrow margin, and pick up enough seats in the Senate to be able exercise some restraint on their collegues across the aisle. At least they will have unseated that drooling imbecile from PA.

All this against a setting President, during a time of war will be a major accomplishment and sufficient to derail Bush's plan to attack Social Security in January, establish some oversight and restraint in our foreign policy. It also validates, John Dean's fifty state strategy--the Dems have done a tremendous job establishing feet on the ground and making purple some red states.

The Governor races are critical to the next battle--and the Dems are looking very good there.

We're in a much better position going into 2008 than we were heading into 2006.

The prize is in 2008, and some of us have already cleaned out our lockers, made our wills, lightened our packs, oiled our weapons and drawn our ammo.

Let the games begin!

[LamontCranston]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think we'll see the usual GOP ploy of claiming victory from the Democrats "failure" to achieve absurdly high expectations as fanned by the GOP spin machine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You mean as fanned by you and Mark and Nackty and others in these threads for the last several months.

Sounds like the back-pedaling from a win has begun. Next we'll have a post about someone
stealing the election or rigging votes or some such.

Here's an absurdly high expectation, "Just win, baby."

"I coulda been a contender."
-- Brando, "On the Waterfront"
-- John Kerry in 2004
-- Democrat Majority hopes in 2006 http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cool4.gif

OK. Now the games can begin...

[Naturist Mark]

Robocalls: Rove's last minute dirty trick.

In at least 20 close races around the country the National Republican Congressional Committee is funding automated phone calls designed to harass Democratic voters.

The beginning of the call is designed to sound like it is from the Democratic candidate. If the voter hangs up on the call - as the vast majority do, the machine is designed to call again throughout the night from 5 to 10 times. Making the voter believe the Democratic campaign is making the calls.

If the voter listens to the whole call, they will hear a slur against the Democrat, and presumedly less likely to vote for them. Not much chance of this happening, but since they are only calling DEMOCRATS with these robocalls, there is no downside.

Rove calls this a win-win situation.

It is certainly an illegal practice in many if not most states. But by the time anything can be done the election will be long over. In the meantime an NRCC spokesman says they will continuue to make the calls to voters.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/15898729.htm
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/...sted_by_frank_2.html (http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/11/posted_by_frank_2.html)
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/43942/

-Mark

[WacoTX]

This is when caller ID is important, I don't answer a call that doesn't satisfactorily identify themselves.

[Nu]

Great replies on this thread.

Best wishes for happy results in the elections.

Take the time to get out and vote.
If you don't vote, you can't knock the results.

[shomymojo]

JUST VOTE !!!...TODAY !!!

[hickory1945]

I can hear it now; Democrats win = good triumphs over evil.

Republicans win = Election stolen.
Hickory

[usmc1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hickory1945:
I can hear it now; Democrats win = good triumphs over evil.

Republicans win = Election stolen.
Hickory </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You have an over-active imagination, Republicans ain't winning squat! Even though they are already trying to suppress and intimidate minority voters.

But, this time, it is not a roll-over, Dean has raised a small army of activists and volunteers to fight back.

As to good over evil, you damn straight!

[nacktman]

Just another example of the conservatoids not grasping what is being said, here usmc1.

However with even a wholesale ouster of the troglodytes from the right by brain functional people from the center and left the Roveian spin will be to claim the conservatoids won a grand victory.

Remember black is white, night is day, up is down, war is peace, poverty is wealth so a mass turnout out of the neo-cons will be howled from the crypt as a victory for the muck and mire suckers from the bottom of the murky cesspool of denial.

[nacktman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> A big 'hallelujah' for American voters </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out the piece from which the above citation was extracted at Hallelujah America (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/08/Dobbs.Nov9/index.html).

It hits it right out of the park.

Even with the Democratic Party "victorious" it is the American people that were the real victors.
Something I feel the Democratic Party will recognize and remember, whereas the other "party" never has or will thereby making the prospect of November 4, 2008 even uglier for the "other" party if they continue in the same mode as they have from their inception.

The American people have shown they see through the lies and deceit and will not tolerate corruption for long having sent a clear message to the inner beltway that "you had better listen to us as we are the 'real' government of this nation".
The Democrats have the green light to change what we the people want changed and should do the job despite the blocks the "others" will attempt to throw up. Should they not accomplish them due to those blocking attempts in a rapid fashion they will be given the time to do so for the attempts at blocking will be viewed for what they are the whinning and malcontentiveness of those that have shot their wad and come up woefully short. However, should they not accomplish the changes demanded by the people due to their own misdirections we the American people will bring out the broom again and send the refuse flying out the door as we did on November 7, 2006 and install a representative body that does what it is told by those it represents.

[nimrod]

Will there finally be an impeachment trail now that the Dems are in power?

[Baron Lake]

What a great idea nimrod. Maybe until we can set up something permanent we can use part of the one in Texas (Chisolm or somehing like that). The convicted can be sentenced to wander up and down the trail forever. Being in Texas, georgie's friends could conveniently visit from time to time.
Assign ol' Deadeye Dick to "ride shotgun" on the group. Keep um on their toes.
b.l.

[usmc1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nimrod:
Will there finally be an impeachment trail now that the Dems are in power? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Conyers won't like it, but no, there will be no impeachment nor impeachment trial.

Dems aren't out to play "gotcha", there's too much to be done in the way of healthcare, strenthening and preserving social security, cleaning up the Plan D mess, strengthening medicare and medicaid, developing an exit strategy for Iraq, and DEFICIT REDUCTION, just for starters.

But, I can tell you where the line in the sand is drawn...there will be no more Alitos going on the Supreme Court.

The Dems are sincere in their desire to build on this election victory for the people. If the GOP wants to play veto and stalemate and burnt earth that will be unfortunate.

[Baron Lake]

There needn't be actual impeachment proceedings. Congressional investigations can simply begin to uncover even more evidence of criminal behavior as we grow closer to the next round of elections. It'll be fun then to listen to the neocon's chorus "Bush who?".

Whatever the Dems agenda, they better get cracking. John McCain said today that this election was just an aberration and that the Repubs would be back in 2008. Wonder if he's been talking to our buddy Karl?
b.l.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can hear it now; Democrats win = good triumphs over evil.

Republicans win = Election stolen.
Hickory </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are a lot of us who think the election was close to being stolen. Have you noticed that every one of the the Republicans who lost close races has made a point of being a 'good loser' and has announced they will NOT ask for a recount? They probably have a good reason to not invite a closer look. There are even a few undecided races where the Republican has vowed to not ask for a recount (like Pryce in Ohio - who's district includes the western part of Franklin county where Republican precincts tend to vote over 100%). In Ohio, an unprecedented project by five statewide Green, Libertarian and independent candidates dispersed scores of election observers throughout the state placing them inside key county boards of elections and precincts.

A classic case comes from central Ohio, "scene of the crime" for the 2004 election. In the 15th Congressional District, election protection attorney Cliff Arnebeck was initially turned away from voting due to lack of "proper I.D," even though he presented a valid Ohio driver's license and proof of his current address.

Arnebeck serves as lead attorney in the King Lincoln lawsuit that has won preservation of the Ohio 2004 ballots and a number of key victories regarding election protection. After correcting the precinct officials through a call to the County Prosecutor's office Arnebeck learned upon arriving at his office that, hundreds of voters were being wrongly forced to show various forms of personal identification. Arnebeck called the Secretary of State's lawyers and Justin Letts, the law clerk to US District Judge Marbley. Soon after the SOS issued a new directive confirming that a valid drivers licence need not contain a current address. Election observers documented a staggering percent of voters who were being forced to cast provisional ballots. Provisionals are notoriously easy for GOP Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell to pitch or now delete from the e-voting machines. More than 16,000 of them, mostly on paper, remain uncounted from 2004.

Clearly, this was set up to be a stolen cakewalk for incumbent Congresswoman Deborah Pryce (R-15th), fourth ranking House Republican and a close Bush ally.

Instead, Pryce's alleged margin of victory is now less than 4,000 votes. Rather than conceding, challenger Mary Jo Kilroy has vowed to fight it out until the last ballot is counted. A Democratic poll watcher at the Ohio Student Union at Ohio State University estimated that as many as 50% of the students may have been forced to vote provisional ballots. These student voters are in the heart of the undecided race in the 15th district, and early reports indicate there are 20-40,000 uncounted e-provisional voters in that race. Article (http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2006/2236)

Those who have seen the raw data from exit polls in the close races in Virginia and Montana say that both states had Democratic victories at least 4% higher than official vote talleys.

Since 2004 American exit polls are 'normalized' to agree with official results - unlike exit polls anywhere else in the world - so the only way to detect election fraud is to use the raw data.

The networks had access to the raw exit poll data, but embargoed its public release. That didn't prevent one network exec from commenting (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/08/AR2006110802162.html) on the polling seeming to show "Democratic oversampling" and another "a little too Democratic".

Frankly, I think it is likely that quite a few races WERE stolen - the new majority should be larger than it is.

-Mark

[usmc1]

Yeah some theft and attempted theft took place as well as a lot of voter intimidation and supression.

Those have been documented and where applicable they will be investigated.

But, you cited the key to keeping this one cleaner than before: We had people inserted into the process. My precinct is bright red, in a red county in a red state, but this time we had a democratic election official in with the grim-faced Gopers.

I think also that that pompous a-hole Lou Dobbs had generated enough interest in the issue of voting irregularities tied to electronic machines that people were cautious and wary this time.

Also, the dems really emphasied vote-by-mail (where available) so that people could vote with a paper trail.

One activist and community organizer worked out a deal with Meals-On-Wheels in his area to distribute vote-by-mail instructions to 5000 home-bound seniors and in 32 senior centers in a ten-county area.

Again, from retiree groups to Gay and Lesbian activist organizations, the Dems had coalitions and alliances to put feet on the ground and inserted into the process. The curtain hiding the wizard was swept aside, so to speak.

In short, recognizing the banana republic Bush has turned us into, we had money, guns and lawyers standing by!

[hm0504]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can hear it now; Democrats win = good triumphs over evil.

Republicans win = Election stolen.
Hickory </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are a lot of us who think the election was close to being stolen. Have you noticed that every one of the the Republicans who lost close races has made a point of being a 'good loser' and has announced they will NOT ask for a recount? They probably have a good reason to not invite a closer look. There are even a few undecided races where the Republican has vowed to not ask for a recount (like Pryce in Ohio - who's district includes the western part of Franklin county where Republican precincts tend to vote over 100%).
...
-Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for posting that! I had noticed that in races where the Republicans lost by a very narrow margin, and where the counting of absentee ballots might have given them victory, they were deciding not to call for a recount. I also found it strange that Republican pundits were topping their day-after messages with a call to their audiences to quietly accept the election results. Though I found this curious, I didn't really think about it much. I guess I'm just too sweet and innocent.

[Naturist Mark]

Looks like Katherine Harris's old congressional seat, FL-13, should have gone to the Democratic candidate, except for a mysterious missing 18,000 votes: <UL TYPE=SQUARE> Dist. 13 voting analysis shows broad problem

By BOB MAHLBURG and MAURICE TAMMAN

SARASOTA COUNTY -- A review of Sarasota County voting results shows that in almost every precinct a high percentage of voters didn't cast ballots in the hotly contested 13th Congressional District, a trend that likely affected the outcome of the race.

Democrat Christine Jennings lost to Republican Vern Buchanan by 368 votes, making it the second closest congressional race in the country.

More than 18,000 voters who showed up at the polls voted in other races but not the Buchanan-Jennings race.

That means nearly 13 percent of voters did not vote for either candidate -- a massive undercount compared with other counties, including Manatee, which reported a 2 percent undervote.

If the missing votes had broken for Jennings by the same percentage as the counted votes in Sarasota County, the Democrat would have won the race by about 600 votes instead of losing by 368, according to a Herald-Tribune review. Even if the undervote had been 8 percent -- more than three times what it was in Manatee -- Jennings would have won by one vote.
Artlcle (http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/NEWS/611090343) [/list]

Since Florida voting machines have no voter verified paper receipt, all that a recount can do is re-run the machine counts.

-Mark

[nifocinphx]

For whatever it's worth, here's Mark Fiore's spin [Nov 8th animated political cartoon] on the mid-term elections.

Link to the "Botched Joke Midterm Comedy Troupe!" (http://www.markfiore.com/animation/botched.html)

nifocinphx http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/user.gif

[Bob S.]

And now for a break in the action for some interesting results:

See ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2646802) for the article.

In Waldenburg, Ark, a three way mayoral race in this town with 80 residents ended with a strange result. The incumbent Mayor William Wood received 18 votes, challenger Ronnie Chatmen had 18 votes, and challenger Randy Wooten received 0 votes.

Mr. Wooten is confused how he received no votes since he voted for himself as well as a few other of his friends.

From MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15671374/):
Some unknown Floridian who voted absentee mailed his ballot in with some old stanps, including the highly rare 1918 "Inverted Jenny" stamp, which if not cancelled, is worth about $200,000.

Since no name was on the envelope, they could not count the vote and right now, the rare stamp is sitting in a sealed box that, under Florida law, cannot be unopened. Also according to the law, these uncounted ballots are retained by the elections board for 22 months, after that time, they are usually destroyed.

So far, there is no comment about what will be done. But wouldn't you know it, this takes place in Broward Co.

Bob S.

[Liam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob S.:
(....)But wouldn't you know it, this takes place in Broward Co.

Bob S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't Broward Co. the place where several voters found that as they pushed the button for Democrat, the machine registered Republican?

[Naturist Mark]

Back on the 9th I wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Those who have seen the raw data from exit polls in the close races in Virginia and Montana say that both states had Democratic victories at least 4% higher than official vote talleys.

Since 2004 American exit polls are 'normalized' to agree with official results - unlike exit polls anywhere else in the world - so the only way to detect election fraud is to use the raw data.

The networks had access to the raw exit poll data, but embargoed its public release. That didn't prevent one network exec from commenting on the polling seeming to show "Democratic oversampling" and another "a little too Democratic".

Frankly, I think it is likely that quite a few races WERE stolen - the new majority should be larger than it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The data (http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/ExitPollData) are now in, and they show a 4% discrepency nationwide: that means that the narrow Democratic victory was actually a landslide (http://electiondefensealliance.org/landslide_denied_exit_polls_vs_vote_count_2006):

http://electiondefensealliance.org/files/images/AdjustedEP_graph.gif 2006 Exit Poll Data Screenshot Captures


Once again, as in 2004, the national media and Edison-Mitofsky have colluded in election deception.

On this page we present screenshot captures of the network consortium exit poll results for the 2006 Midterm Elections -- showing you the original, authentic 7:07 p.m. exit poll on Election Night, compared to the "forced" exit poll issued the following day at 1:00 p.m., heavily adjusted to conform to the "official" electronic election returns.

The 7:07 p.m. exit poll figures on 11/07 showed an 11.5% electoral margin between Democratic and Republican votes for the U.S. House.
View them by opening this file: http://electiondefensealliance.org/files/HOUSE_EP_7PM_1107.pdf

The 1:00 p.m. exit poll figures released Wednesday, 11/08 show an apparent but "adjusted" (falsified) 7.6% percent spread -- understating the scale of the Democratic sweep by 34%.
View those figures by opening this file: http://electiondefensealliance.org/files/HOUSE_EP_1PM_1108.pdf

The full explanation how and why this was done, and how we know that the original exit poll figures of 11/07 are the true reflection of this election, is published in this press release and in this full-length report (http://electiondefensealliance.org/landslide_denied_exit_polls_vs_vote_count_2006) .



At 4 precincts in Columbus, OH volunteers held a 'parallel election' (http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rady_ana_061114_parallel_election_re.htm) , a sort of exit poll on steroids where fully 34% of voters agreed to recast their votes to audit the veracity of the official election system.

In the Governor's race the parallel vote showed Democrat Ted Strickland winning over Republican Ken Blackwell by 12% more than the official Board of Election figures for those same precincts.

In the still contested race between Republican Congresswoman Deborah Pryce and Democratic challenger Mary Jo Klroy, the parallel vote shows Kilroy winning by fully 20% more than current BOE figures for those same precincts


-Mark

[usmc1]

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/10573

But, not in 2006 despite some attempts and for certain not in 2008!