Co-Ed Showers

[John-The-Great]

Ok I have been thinking lately if we had co-ed showers in gyms and places like that rape rates or anything perverted would go down. My basic idea behind it is that the more you can see the less you want. I was discussing this with a friend and he said that some guy would rape a girl and I told him "First of all I doubt that would happen in front of a group of people and even if it did me or any reasonable guy would beat the **** out of someone who tried to harm a girl". I thought that was an extremly ignorant statement by him. I have also heard that they do have co-ed showers in europe.

[Journeyman]

Ok I have been thinking lately if we had co-ed showers in gyms and places like that rape rates or anything perverted would go down. My basic idea behind it is that the more you can see the less you want. I was discussing this with a friend and he said that some guy would rape a girl and I told him "First of all I doubt that would happen in front of a group of people and even if it did me or any reasonable guy would beat the **** out of someone who tried to harm a girl". I thought that was an extremly ignorant statement by him. I have also heard that they do have co-ed showers in europe.

Not that simple, John. Rape is all about power, not sex. Men predilected to rape will not be any *less* inclined that way if in a co-ed shower, IMHO. A nude woman or a non-nude woman makes no difference to that kind of offender. Here are some comments from others:

Michigan Nude Beach Advocates says:
"Studies show that, while nudist women have suffered rape at about the same rate as non-nudist women, the perpetrators of the rapes are all textilists as the studies show that nudist men do not rape. I wondered whether these facts indicated that naturism attracts only gentle men or if the practice itself gentles men. Perhaps both, but other studies indicate that rapists and sexual abusers come almost entirely from harsh, restrictive, home environments. This weighs in favor of the latter. Let the world know that a naturist setting is the healthiest setting for women and families."

From rec.nude Facts:

"4.6. Fear of sexual consequences

Many people are afraid that if they go nude, they invite unwanted
attention, possibly even rape. Naturists decry sexual harassment and
sexual assault, and are committed to creating an environment where
women and men may both feel safe and non-threatened. Don't let this
fear prevent you from trying naturism - harassment and assault are
very rare, and are not tolerated by naturists. (And, by the way,
naturists enjoy healthy sexual lives like most everyone else - but
they enjoy them in private, like most everybody else.)"

There are co-ed showers in many North American nudist facilties. Again, this is not the issue. Rapes will happen where ever there happen to be those guys whose brains don't work properly, and they want to overcome a woman. Co-ed nude showers won't decrease or increase rapes, from what I understand.

[Gabe]

What study is this? I'd like to read it. Please post a link to it.

Gabe

[Nude in the North]

If there was no age limit for alcohol, would children grow up understanding it's affects and be less inclined to abuse it as adults?
If there were no poverty, would people be less likely to steal?
If Sex wasn't considered a Taboo in almost every possible situation, would there be less rape?

It makes me wonder if possibly some of these things aren't genetic.
Some studies show strong evidence that certain Genes carry behavior patterens. And for most people those genes are either dormant or atleast less active.

It could explain why some people are so easily addicted to things such as Alcohol and drugs. Why people that have plenty of money still Steal. And why even Men that were raised in some of the best of families, Still commit Rape.

But I'm not buying it.

I believe it's a lot more complicated than that.
I certainly don't know the answers, but I have lots of questions.

Scientists love to find a new piece of the puzzel, come up with a theory, and state it as fact. Often proving the last theory wrong.

Coed Showers, or a totally nude society for that matter, might reduce the sexual curiosity that is natural in children growing up. It might even raise awareness in teenagers about disease and unwanted pregnancy. But there is a huge difference between knowing what a female looks like naked, and experiencing a sexual relationship.
It is completly unrelated to the Dominance, control, and need for power, sought by someone that would Rape.

[Journeyman]

What study is this? I'd like to read it. Please post a link to it.

Gabe

The website did not list sources for the "studies". You'd have to contact the site administrator:
"This site is run by Matthew Kerwin, a member of The Naturist Society, The Southeast Michigan Naturists, and the SpiritualNaturists of Michigan as well as the "The Michigan Nude Beach Advocates”. Additionally, per paragraph three under "Agenda and Beliefs", I am a member of The Nature Conservancy. For general rights, I am a member of the ACLU. You are encouraged to contribute site reports, calendar events, and other ideas. Contact me by e-mail. http://www.michigannudebeachadvocates.org/
"

[Agde]

Ok I have been thinking lately if we had co-ed showers in gyms and places like that rape rates or anything perverted would go down.
You have an old ally in Plato who felt that inter-gender respect, hence equality based on merit, hence justice for all, would only happen when men and women could participate in all activities together, including sports which of course was practiced nude back then. He argued for a process of ritualization ("assisted" by "guardians") and then internalization of inter-gender equality as essential to creating civilized society. Coed showers make sense to me as a very effective civilizing ritual. In fact, I think gender equality and respect is the keystone of the archway back into the Garden.

[jedinudist]

I think it's funny that I can think of two shows/movies right off the top of my head that showed co-ed showering. Both shows demonstrated a more advanced society where the genders are treated equally.

1. Starship Troopers.

2. Battlestar Galactica.

Hmmm....

[jon71]

Actually in many countries, France is a good example, children are introduced to responisble drinking early and there is much less alcoholism. The phenomenom of "the power hour" where someone consumes loads of alcohol fast on their 21st birthday is non-existent. That is a dangerous, often deadly, practice because all of a sudden someone finds themself with all the freedom and no good concept of moderation. Also a certain percentage of crime is a result of a sense of desperation. We could argue all day about other options but if a person feels desperate and believes that they have to steal to get by (even if that belief is completely wrong) then there will be more crime. Every recession brings with it an increase in crime and every recovery (and moreso the occasional economic boom) sees the crime rate lessen. All in all I think there is some validity to the notions mentioned in this thread, although they don't 100% account for things.

[Ken Palmer]

I am in agreement here. Although I have never been to Europe, I have been to numerous nudist clubs and resorts and have myself showered in co-ed situations. In my opinion, the subject of rape or sexual assault would not be an issue because,as mentioned already, the culprit would not be leaving on his own power. Instead, he would literally be carried out because it is simply not tolerated there. So a lady would be safe indeed in that situation, as far as I can tell.

Ken Palmer





Not that simple, John. Rape is all about power, not sex. Men predilected to rape will not be any *less* inclined that way if in a co-ed shower, IMHO. A nude woman or a non-nude woman makes no difference to that kind of offender. Here are some comments from others:

Michigan Nude Beach Advocates says:
"Studies show that, while nudist women have suffered rape at about the same rate as non-nudist women, the perpetrators of the rapes are all textilists as the studies show that nudist men do not rape. I wondered whether these facts indicated that naturism attracts only gentle men or if the practice itself gentles men. Perhaps both, but other studies indicate that rapists and sexual abusers come almost entirely from harsh, restrictive, home environments. This weighs in favor of the latter. Let the world know that a naturist setting is the healthiest setting for women and families."

From rec.nude Facts:

"4.6. Fear of sexual consequences

Many people are afraid that if they go nude, they invite unwanted
attention, possibly even rape. Naturists decry sexual harassment and
sexual assault, and are committed to creating an environment where
women and men may both feel safe and non-threatened. Don't let this
fear prevent you from trying naturism - harassment and assault are
very rare, and are not tolerated by naturists. (And, by the way,
naturists enjoy healthy sexual lives like most everyone else - but
they enjoy them in private, like most everybody else.)"

There are co-ed showers in many North American nudist facilties. Again, this is not the issue. Rapes will happen where ever there happen to be those guys whose brains don't work properly, and they want to overcome a woman. Co-ed nude showers won't decrease or increase rapes, from what I understand.