Question for the Radical Right

[scubare]

I just saw this and thought I'd pass it along:

If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? :D

[PascoDoug]

I just saw this and thought I'd pass it along:
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? :D

:D

Nope. Morality comes from millions of years of evolved pack behavior.

[nakeduni]

I don't think the Radical Right has any morals. Immorality must come from morons. That's more like it. That's it!

[Dail17]

If there is no objective morality, there is no morality

[PascoDoug]

If there is no objective morality, there is no morality

Not necessarily. Morals can mostly be attributed to pack/group survival instincts and human reason. They're definitely not dependent on religion or belief systems. In fact it can be argued that more religious societies are typically more "immoral".

[MichaelJB]

Theyre a bunch of people who follow the crowd and cling to outdated beleifs and dont know how to think for themselves. They think they know whats best for everyone and think its their duty to tell them and to enforce their beleifs on others who dont follow their beleifs.

[scubare]

Theyre a bunch of people who follow the crowd and cling to outdated beleifs and dont know how to think for themselves. They think they know whats best for everyone and think its their duty to tell them and to enforce their beleifs on others who dont follow their beleifs.

In fact to further enforce their beliefs on the rest of us they elect legislators who ignore the separation of church and state. They try to pass legislation that would make it illegal to go against their beliefs. :(

By the way, this thread was meant to just be a funny line and bring some humor into your day - not the start of a deep philosophical debate. But I agree with your comments and thank you for them. Cheers! :D

[MichaelJB]

In fact to further enforce their beliefs on the rest of us they elect legislators who ignore the separation of church and state. They try to pass legislation that would make it illegal to go against their beliefs.


Thats why we should try to get people who are not religious elected or if they are elected make sure that they will follow the seperation of church and state and not let their religion get in between them and their job.

[nakeduni]

If there is no objective morality, there is no morality

I agree with you in general, but once humans define a set of moral standards for themselves in their own culture, then, to defy their own standards is to be immoral; sort of by definition.

[scubare]

...to defy their own standards is to be immoral...

Yes, but standards and customs change, thereby leading to the possibility of a change in morals. Look at the ancient Hawaiians whose customs and morality included toplessness and full nudity. After the missionaries arrived and "educated" them about right and "wrong", their customs, and thus their morals changed. If we can educate people that there is nothing wrong with the human body, then customs and morality can be changed.

[Dail17]

People here have said that morality shifts with the time/culture. Well, there is a community of people over in the middle east who've deemed it morally viable to cut each one of your heads off, slowly, with a dull knife. Which of you is willing to say that such an act would be immoral?

[Naturist Mark]

People here have said that morality shifts with the time/culture. Well, there is a community of people over in the middle east who've deemed it morally viable to cut each one of your heads off, slowly, with a dull knife. Which of you is willing to say that such an act would be immoral?

Sure, OK, I'm willing.

But let's get a few things clear ... the terrorists who think it is a fine thing to behead Westerners in fact prefer to do it quickly with sharp swords. Much more dramatic in the videos they distribute. And they do not represent their communities ... almost all Muslims reject their actions as immoral - even those like the majority in Iraq who believe it is OK to kill Americans out of revenge over our occupation of their country, reject the barbarism of beheading hostages as non-Islamic.

Of course I do understand that the purpose of the question is not to illuminate the limits of cultural relativism, rather it is to justify retaliatory barbarism on our part.

Therefore I pose a counter question:

Is it moral to employ tactics today, that in the past we not only rejected, but prosecuted as war crimes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html), even punishable by death, when practiced by our adversaries in WWII?

Do you understand that even our Iraqi allies believe the beheadings of western hostages is more merciful and honorable than the tortures (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?t=2396&highlight=torture) of equally innocent civilians in Abu Ghraib?

-Mark

[Dail17]

I will answer your question by simply acknowledging the fact that just because people in a time and place thought an action to be moral or immoral doesn't mean it was. People are fallible. The burden isn't really on the moral objectivist to justify these things because we concede that there is a right and a wrong even though we have trouble at times discerning these things.

I think my question is still valid, however. Either an act is or isn't immoral. Can you or anyone else say that the Al Queda community is wrong in their beliefs?

[JeepNude]

I don't think the Radical Right has any morals. Immorality must come from morons. That's more like it. That's it!


I am a conservative, and, I have strong morals. Your comment is very offensive.

Let's be clear- Not all naturists are liberal. Naturists come from all walks of life, and political parties.

As a rule, I steer clear of political debates, simply because I am not an argumentative guy. This time, I simply had to say something because I have had enough of the childish name-calling. I love everyone equally, liberal or conservative. I wish everybody did also.

Thank you.

[RichNH]

I agree, while this topic may have started as a simple joke, one which I found mildly amusing for its structure, what resulted can only be characterized as a diatribe against anyone who is "conservative" by popular definition.

I find it really amazing the number of times I've heard conservatives described as judgmental only to run across a thread such as this.

I mean, talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

It reinforces a belief I found to be true again and again: Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas, liberals think conservatives are bad people.

Rich

[nakeduni]

I am a conservative, and, I have strong morals. Your comment is very offensive.

Let's be clear- Not all naturists are liberal. Naturists come from all walks of life, and political parties.

As a rule, I steer clear of political debates, simply because I am not an argumentative guy. This time, I simply had to say something because I have had enough of the childish name-calling. I love everyone equally, liberal or conservative. I wish everybody did also.

Thank you.

Being a conservative is not the same as being a radical right as far as I'm concerned. I personally find the radical right personally offensive and immoral, and that is just my opinion. I have liberal views but I live a conservative life. So I'm a little of both. I find O' Reilly, Hannity, and Rush offensive, as well as dishonest. You have your opinion, and I have mine. Many people have the same opinion that I have. You had enough of "childish name-calling" which is the same as calling me childish. How hypocritical of you. And you need not talk down to me. I know not all nudists are liberal. And I find your, "I love everyone equally, liberal or conservative.", as rather insincere. That's like saying, you can't tolerant other people's opinions and find it offensive, but I love you just the same. Puke! One thing you have in common with conservatives out of their playbook; attack what you think is your opposition. Thank you for your opinion, at least I know where you will be coming from.

[nakeduni]

Yes, but standards and customs change, thereby leading to the possibility of a change in morals. Look at the ancient Hawaiians whose customs and morality included toplessness and full nudity. After the missionaries arrived and "educated" them about right and "wrong", their customs, and thus their morals changed. If we can educate people that there is nothing wrong with the human body, then customs and morality can be changed.

You are talking about something the evolves over time. I'm talking about the here and now, how people behave, and what they profess to be. Like politicians who speak out against gays to get elected, but are gay themselves, as we found later.

[Naturist Mark]

Can you or anyone else say that the Al Queda community is wrong in their beliefs?

I am very comfortable saying they are wrong in their tactics.

There are acts which are at base evil no matter how a group's cultural belief systems work. Moral relativism doesn't excuse the acts of a toxic culture. Terrorism is evil no matter what, even when a cultural system embraces it as moral by its standards - that just means that system has a toxic (immoral) component. I won't excuse it under some squishy banner of 'understanding' their right to their own values.

That applies to us too. In my view there is no excuse for torture, I am sickened that our nation's present moral system allows it. It is a toxic evil stain upon our souls. Proof we are no longer what Ronald Reagan described as the "Shining City Upon the Hill". There is an evil cancer in our system, and monsters that need to be vanquished.

[Fitz1980]

People here have said that morality shifts with the time/culture. Well, there is a community of people over in the middle east who've deemed it morally viable to cut each one of your heads off, slowly, with a dull knife. Which of you is willing to say that such an act would be immoral?

&

I am very comfortable saying they are wrong in their tactics.

There are acts which are at base evil no matter how a group's cultural belief systems work. Moral relativism doesn't excuse the acts of a toxic culture. Terrorism is evil no matter what, even when a cultural system embraces it as moral by its standards - that just means that system has a toxic (immoral) component. I won't excuse it under some squishy banner of 'understanding' their right to their own values.

That applies to us too. In my view there is no excuse for torture, I am sickened that our nation's present moral system allows it. It is a toxic evil stain upon our souls. Proof we are no longer what Ronald Reagan described as the "Shining City Upon the Hill". There is an evil cancer in our system, and monsters that need to be vanquished.

Ironic that you would mention Reagan as certain US presidential administrations who deemed it morally viable to support right wing death squads and totalitarian dictators for financial gain. What does that say about us?

[alfredr]

Morality comes from 'more-ons'

Before I can go vote in the primary election today, I have to put more on. It would be immoral not to.

[Dail17]

I am very comfortable saying they are wrong in their tactics.

There are acts which are at base evil no matter how a group's cultural belief systems work. Moral relativism doesn't excuse the acts of a toxic culture. Terrorism is evil no matter what, even when a cultural system embraces it as moral by its standards - that just means that system has a toxic (immoral) component. I won't excuse it under some squishy banner of 'understanding' their right to their own values.

That applies to us too. In my view there is no excuse for torture, I am sickened that our nation's present moral system allows it. It is a toxic evil stain upon our souls. Proof we are no longer what Ronald Reagan described as the "Shining City Upon the Hill". There is an evil cancer in our system, and monsters that need to be vanquished.

And this is my point- You've just accepted a morally objective standpoint. Morality is objective!

[SpiderThug]

I have to see that a lot of ideological masturbation goes on in this forum. This thread is yet just another example of this nonsense.

Whether you stand on the left, right or middle of the road, they all contain radicals, extremists and so on.

[PascoDoug]

This thread has been closed at the request of the original author.