Is it time for a viable 3rd party?

[Qikdraw]

A Not-So-Simple Twist of Fate: Could Hillary Bequeath Us Our Long-Awaited Third Party? (http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/13293)

Now before you take umbrage in thinking it Hillary starting a 3rd party, its not. Basically the article says that if the super delegates pick Hillary for the democratic party nominee, that Obama should start up a 3rd party. No short term gain at all, but in 2012 he would be able to run a very viable 3rd party presidency run.

I think the US needs a viable 3rd party, hell even a 4th and 5th viable party, but I would rather see Obama president now. However Obama draws people from both sides of the poltical divide, he also draws out more voters, this is a good thing. I do think it is time to get rid of the two party, divisive nature of US politics.

Qikdraw

[usmc1]

A Not-So-Simple Twist of Fate: Could Hillary Bequeath Us Our Long-Awaited Third Party? (http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/13293)

Now before you take umbrage in thinking it Hillary starting a 3rd party, its not. Basically the article says that if the super delegates pick Hillary for the democratic party nominee, that Obama should start up a 3rd party. No short term gain at all, but in 2012 he would be able to run a very viable 3rd party presidency run.

I think the US needs a viable 3rd party, hell even a 4th and 5th viable party, but I would rather see Obama president now. However Obama draws people from both sides of the poltical divide, he also draws out more voters, this is a good thing. I do think it is time to get rid of the two party, divisive nature of US politics.

Qikdraw

All sorts of speculation out there. But, I think this would be a non-starter. Anytime a so-called "viable" third party emerges, the two parties take over its important planks and moves on.

Secondly, this would put Obama in the postion of developing a "cult of personality" since he and Clinton really are not worlds apart. He couldn't build on a divide in issues, it would really ahve to be around his personality. That, I think, would be catastophic.

Oh, by the way, Obama asked her a really good question today, "If I'm not fit to be president, why would you be talking me up as vice-president?"

You just gotta love the guy's style.

A few years from now, when the books are being written about this primary, we'll read about how Clinton, one of the world's toughest campaigners relied on the Democratic establishment while Obama built a grassroots movement. No one is really talking about it a whole lot, but I'm seeing things that I haven't seen since civil rights and the stop the Vietnam war days (Idealism & Hope-reborn). The establishment is leaning one way, but the rank and file is leaning the other way---and, excuse the gagging and chocking and retching sounds, but, I see some parallels to Reagan and establishment Republicans back then. I really think there are some parallels.

Rather than a third party movement, which is inevitably doomed, I'd urge people to get involved at the precinct level of the party of their choice and make the changes they want that way. That, in inself, is a tough assignment, but, building a viable third party is equally or more difficult and wasted effort. That is how the neo-cons and religious right took over the GOP and pulled the country so far to the right.

The problem isn't so much the parties, or their candidates, it is that there is insufficient grassroots involvement. Learn how things really work, get involved, help get people with your views involved, and recruit and put forth candidates who believe as you do.

Want a third party?

Go ask Wallace, Anderson, Nader, Perot how to go about it!

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know--hopes springs eternal.

[nimrod]

The question is if it is time for a viable, and that is the key word, third party, not if it will work well I think you have to assume that it will when you use the word viable. I think that it is time, there is to much bickering and polarization between the two major parties to do the country much good.

Both of the major parties want you to think that voting a third party is a wasted vote, because it will take votes away from them and that they will have less of a chance to win, and then you might end up with the other candidate. Well is that not what democracy is all about. You do not waste a vote if you are voting for someone that you think best represents what your needs are, it should not matter what party they are in. Do not believe the major two they want you to think that it is a wasted vote, but the reality is less compitition the better chance they have of winning. Voting the lesser of two evils is a wasted vote.

Usmc is right, it is up to you to be involved in the process and try to effect changes, and then maybe we will not have to vote for the least evil and vote for a true candidate, but it does not have to be within the major two.

[Boreas]

Canada has a reasonably viable third party. It will not likely ever become the PM, but it has been in the opposition and has had a strong voice in parliament. Our system is so radically different from yours though, that I can't see how it would work down there.

I think usmc and nimrod have the right idea.

[luvnaturism]

I think that we will know when the time is right for "a viable third party" when a third party comes forth and attracts strong support. Not necessarily strong enough to win the White House, but at least strong enough to win a fair number of seats in House and Senate, so that the party has to be taken into account in the Washington game of power politics.

One can't just conjure up a third party and declare that it's time for it do well.

[Naturist Mark]

As long as our elections are decided by pluralities, and as long as we have the electoral college, there will never be a viable third party. (Plurality means that the candidate with the most votes wins, even if no one wins a majority.)

Under our electoral system third parties can only act as spoilers, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are a bad thing.

When the majority parties become too comfortable and too independent of the electorate, third parties serve to champion the issues of people being ignored by the major parties. This serves to force the major parties to adopt the platforms of any minor party that becomes popular enough to siphon their votes away. No party will long allow itself to lose elections because a third party divided their constituency and threw the election to the less popular opposition party. In the extreme if the majority parties fail to adopt the popular policies of third parties, they will be replaced by third parties - although that hasn't happened since Lincoln.

Politically it is a very stable system. That doesn't mean it is ideal. Far from it.

Personally I'd like to see some variation of preferential or instant runoff voting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_systems)

-Mark

[Midwest Buck]

I'm ready for a viable third party, but that is not going to happen any time soon. Like NM said, the two major parties will adopt platforms from any rising third party to keep losing voters. Not until voters stick with a third party and not jump ship for presidential elections (not voting for the two major) will a third party become viable. I'll think I'll keep voting Libertarian.

[naturistoftheyear]

Under the present electoral system in the US, it is virtually impossible for a 3rd party to break through on any significant scale.
Third-party or independent candidates can make a splash now and then and influence the overall result of a presidential election, but I can't see any of them win, unless the Democrat and the Republican in the race are both universally despised.
That's not the case now, and the primary system makes sure that there are at least likeable candidates in the race.

[nudeM]

At the time of this posting, Obama leads in delegates and states won. Should this hold true to the finish and he continues to lead on up to the convention and Hillary is awarded the nomination by way of super delegates, then don't be surprised if you see the emergence of a third party.

Hillary is scratching and clawing to to get the rules changed every inch of the way, to include Florida and Michigan (which was initially agreed to in the first place by both parties). Even people in her own party are beginning to hope she "just goes away". If she gets the rules changed in her favor, then a third party could be born.:smoking: