Is the step to toplessness more difficult than total nudity?

[ellie]

Ladies,

You aren't contributing much to this forum, so I thought I would put up a topic to see what you all think. I'm writing from a European (British) perspective, so the US one might be slightly different, although I'd love to hear what American ladies think.

Is the step to going topless more difficult than going totally nude?

I have a theory.

When dressed for the beach, ladies will be in a bikini, gentlemen in swim trunks.

A bare bottom is a bare bottom, and none of us would be overly anxious about exposing our own, however briefly, when changing on the beach. All of the 'rude bits' or 'sexual bits' are at the front.

The first step to beach nudity, for women, is often the bikini bra. You see it so often...girls and young women lie face down, undo the clasp, slip their arms out of the straps, hold the cups in position every time they move, lie down again, then perhaps move without holding the cups in place so that, for a nanosecond, a nipple is exposed. After an hour she might sit up, knees clamped under her chin so that the side of her breasts are exposed. Finally, when she 'gets it', that no one is paying much attention, she'll straighten her legs out and expose, maybe for a few seconds or a minute, her breasts fully for the first time. This goes on, with longer periods of exposed bosom, until she has got over her anxiety. Ecentually, she'll be standing up, walking around and swimming topless.

The anxiety comes from 'size'. How does she compare with other ladies? Bigger? Smaller? Saggy? Pert? Too big? 'AA' cup?

But now she's over it. There are bigger, smaller, saggier, perter ladies on the beach and no one's terribly bothered.

She's over it.

She's not desperately bothered by anyone seeing her naked bottom and, well, what's left to expose? A triangle of pubic hair? A brazilian? Shaved?

Often, the step to total nudity is filled with less anxiety than that first step to toplessness.

For men, it's different. Bare chests are normal. For them, the anxieties, on a nude beach, are all to come when the shorts come off. Bigger? Smaller? Circumcised? Intact? How do they compare with other men?

At this point, the woman's anxieties (in my opinion) are all over. The removal of bikini briefs is often less fraught with anxiety than the step to go 'topless'.

What do you ladies think?

Was the first step, to 'toplessness', more difficult than the removal of bikini briefs? Or are you still at the first stage? If so, what's making you reluctant to remove your briefs?

I'd love to hear your opinions (and gentlemens' opinions, too) on the two stages to nudity.

[Pete Knight]

Wow, what a great thread, beats the "Do you wear underwear' threads, anyway here are the votes of the Norwegian jury (European humour, sorry America.).

From my point of view I had no problem with the transition as I entered social nudism late in life after being frustrated by a prudish wife who wasn't impressed with my nudist tendencies, I realised I was a nudist of sorts but didn't get into the social scene until the divorce kicked off.

My first social nude experience was at a naturist swim in Chester, I went in and was shown around by a guy called Jon Richmond, well known in UK naturist circles, and I never looked back, now I too am well known in UK naturist circles and get around to as many events as possible, I even get paid to go to naturist events, how lucky is that!

I believe its different for you ladies, you feel more looked at and more vulnerable, this is why I think I got on so well with my g/f, she feels more at ease with me because I see her and not her boobs, hey boobs are ten a penny in naturism.

Pete Knight

[NudonyII]

I was going to wait until one of the ladies responded...but then I changed my mind!:p

Culture has a lot to do with it. My first example: my high school sweetheart back in France. We had both grown up in a culture of topfreedom. And she had embraced it. From the first day she dropped her top (in mid-teens), she never had any reluctance to go topfree at the lake or beach. Getting her to lose that last, tiny piece of clothing, though, proved to be an exercise in futility. She simply would not part from her bottoms. I called it the "fig leaf complex." That sentiment was pervasive among other female friends as well.

It's a bit different in a culture where no form of nudity is common. When one has to work nudity from the top down, then all the "hard work" is in losing the top. Once this has been accomplished, it takes much less work and anxiety to finish the job and lose that last "fig leaf". I think it's all about where the anxiety is focused. Which leads me to my second example. A friend of mine who was concerned with her breast size; yet didn't think twice about going bottomfree. Because all her anxieties were focused on her breasts.

[DenitaLC]

Honestly, I think it's the bottoms that are the hardest for most women to loose. Lots of women will topless sunbath but NEVER DARE drop their drawers for the total tan.
JMHO

[Boreas]

It has been much harder for me to be topfree than to be totally nude. I think the reason is that on occasions where I can be nude in a social setting, everyone else is also nude. The first social nude event was awkward (in my own head) but I got over it quickly because it was such a safe and comfortable environment.

I have been working on becoming totally brafree. I am very comfortable now under certain tops, and very uncomfortable under others. I feel exposed in some tops. I used to feel that way anytime I was brafree, even if it was not likely noticable. Now, who cares. They're my breasts....well under many tops anyway.

This winter we were in the Dominican Republic at a resort where many European women were topfree. I was going to join them, really I was. :o Sadly I didn't. It was because it was still a minority of women who were topfree, and I did not care to be a spectacle. Not that I am anything special to look at :), just that I did not want to go there.

One thing I have realized is that the discomfort is likely mostly in my own mind. When I am confidently brafree, I don't think anyone particularly notices or cares. I suspect the same would hold true of topfree. I know that if I get to the DR again, I will go topfree. I might even do some pretanning in a booth beforehand to get psyched up. (I am REALLY white!)

I plan to try topfreedom in my backyard this summer. It is visible to a couple of neighbours without being totally public. It is legal in this province, so I don't imagine it will be an issue. (Stu does not live next door:sneaky:) That will be one way to become comfortable. I am brafree at home almost all of the time, and I don't really care if someone stops by. It is my house. :D

[NudonyII]

Honestly, I think it's the bottoms that are the hardest for most women to loose. Lots of women will topless sunbath but NEVER DARE drop their drawers for the total tan.
JMHO

That's interesting. Take my wife, for example. The first time we went to a nude resort, and she was quite squeamish about it, she threw on a T-shirt and didn't have a care in the world about being bottomfree; but she required some effort and encouragement to finally remove the T-shirt and be completely nude. I've talked with other female nudists who have reported, and would concur with ellie, that the first bit of nudity, namely going topless, was the most difficult part of disrobing. I myself saw a semi-terrified newby, tightly clad in a sarong, nevertheless hike up her sarong to wade in the pool.

But I think Denita is probably right in general. If someone finds their comfort zone in the topfree experience, it may be more challenging for them to go all the way nude. The women I've met/known had zero experience with outdoor nudity and went straight into a nudist experience, without the sometimes preliminary stage of topfreedom. When someone is brought into a fully nude environment with no experience in social nudity at any level, then topfreedom becomes a mere prelude to complete nudity and becomes a much more anxious event. Which would explain why my wife had a much harder time removing her T-shirt than anything else.

But that's just my theory...:bonk:

[Boreas]

But that's just my theory...:bonk:

And a pretty good theory it is too. :)

[Mrs. Natura]

One thing I have realized is that the discomfort is likely mostly in my own mind.

------------------------------------------------------

This is so very true, and can be said about many different subjects/issues.
Sometimes we all have our moments, but that's just a part of our journey down the road of life. WE LIVE, WE LEARN, right!?! :rolleyes: lol :)

It's so FUNNY, as I am absolutely 'the opposite' of you regarding this subject! ha,ha,ha

[Fitz1980]

I've gotten several girls from work to go to Haulover Beach and often they are fine going topfree but wake to keep their bottoms on. When I lived with my old roommate Maria we were pretty casually nude in front of each other but she was often half covered and it didn't seem to matter which half was covered to her. I was usually completely nude at the apt while after getting out of bed and coming into the kitchen she would sometimes have shorts and no top and other times be wearing a shirt that didn't cover anything below the waist.

[ellie]

It was because it was still a minority of women who were topfree, and I did not care to be a spectacle.

Interesting, Boreas.

NudonyII makes reference to discomfort being all in the mind, which is very true.

Writing from a European persepctive, I've gone to beaches where being topless is essentially THE mode of dress, and one of my friends had never gone topless before, nor wanted to, being a rather shy, self-concious sort of lass. Some of us went topless, since a) we'd done it before and couldn't care less and b) it was acceptable. Our friend initially didn't, but after an hour or so expressed discomfort at being the only -and I mean the only- woman within sight who was sporting a bikini bra. She felt uncomfortable, as if she was the spectacle, and the bikini top was gone after a while, at which point she felt she "fitted in".

I often think the same applies to nudist beaches. Confirmed textiles WILL eventually strip off on the basis that they're feeling uncomfortable in a minority.

[Boreas]

ellie thanks for your post. Most of the women who were topfree at the resort where we visited were likely European. There may have been some brave Canadian and American women in the group. One of the European couples was letting their nine-ish year old daughter romp in the water nude. It was awesome to see. She was having a ball, and I was envious. Her mom was topfree.

Ironically, it is legal for women to be topfree in Canada, or at least it is not illegal. The Supreme Court ruled that it was okay for women to be topfree anywhere it is appropriate for men. I do not think many women know about this, or even exercise that right. Now, I have not been on a beach on the Great Lakes lately though.....that might be where you see it.

I am thinking I will sit in our backyard topfree this summer. There really is no reason to be uncomfortable......though that is easier said then done usually isn't it.

I notice you are fairly new in here. Welcome aboard.

[astaroth]

Absolutely NOT!!

[Boreas]

Absolutely NOT!!

Care to elaborate?

[NudeJanice]

Going topless in many parts of Europe, especially Germany, is no big deal and quite different from being completely nude. I was frequently topless at home before I took the plunge and went bottomless as well. So for me it feels much more nude to be bottomless than topless, which is why if it is chilly now I put on a top and stay nude from the waist down. I would not go bottomless in front of my parents whereas they have often seen me topless.

[ellie]

I notice you are fairly new in here. Welcome aboard.


Thanks, Boreas.

As you can guess, I'm in Europe. Scotland to be precise.

I find the discussion here very interesting, since it's largely from a North American perspective, and it's fascinating to see the subtle differences between a European and N.American view.

Those of us in Britain would probably be a bit more reserved than some other European countries, but I still think we in Britain seem more chilled out in our attitudes to nudity than people in N.America.

For instance, here and on other blogs/forums, I'll see people railing against 'Google Earth' in case they're spotted indulging in some nude sunbathing in their garden/back yard.

Me? I couldn't care less. If I turn up in my garden, nude, on Google Earth, that's how it is.

My space. My choice.

If I'm photographed, I do not see it as a violation of my privacy rights (and that applies if I'm snapped on the beach at Vera, too. It's only a body...)

I'm not saying there's anything wrong taking a contrary view, just that it demonstrates the different attitudes that apply either side of the Atlantic, and I'm continually fascinated by those differences.

[NJNude1965]

many females at least in the U.S. are affraid of unwanted attention at all levels.

Yes as a guy I will look at a girl who I think is attractive and I admit that all the time, but I also look at the girl for the person she is and I think girls should be just as confortable out of their clothes as they are in them.

What I feel needs to change at least in the U.S. is the attitudes toward the nude body.

That is just my 2 cents.