The Big "Why Not"

[Christian]

Why is it that one can't be a nudist and recognize their sexuality? What is the push to keep them two concepts completely separate? I don't understand it. Like, sure, when I go to a nude place (beach/park/whatever) I am not drooling over the bodies and thinking about sex however I do have a sex drive so why do people on this forum - and some other - freak out whenever it is brought up???
:D

[MoonShadow]

You may want to read the thread, Nudity and Sex, in this category

[CHICK]

Christian, As naturism is becoming a more acceptable lifestyle recently than it has been in the near past it could be safely said that there is a FUNDIMENTAL difference in how people differentiate between their naturist lifestyle and their sexual practices. Being a naturist is a CHOSEN public practice with the full knowledge of the fact that "what you got" is put out there for everyone to see, whereas, a person's sexual life is nobody's business but his own. What people do with their sexual partner is, and should, remain a private matter. I don't consider a public sex act as vulger an outdated notion. Sure, in some societies it may be acceptable, but not in mine. Any inquiry or public discussion of someone's sexuality should never be considered fair game.

[LeeR49]

Very well said, Chick. I really can't improve on that at all. But i'll try looking at it from a different angle.

I think for most of us, nudism is simply the opportunity to do naked whatever we would do clothed. The more we do that, the more nakedness is seen as natural, normal and non-sexual. The was recently illustrated in the discussion about family wrestling (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?t=12789). There, NudonyII says, "If it is safe and fun behavior that would be otherwise performed with clothes on, then yes, it is okay to do it nude." Later, Bob S adds, "It's not the clothing or lack thereof that should be the defining factor but what is happening."

In other words, look at what you are doing (or thinking about doing) and ask yourself, "If I was in this same situation but the environment were clothed, would it be OK to do this?" Specifically, "If I was in a clothed resort instead of a nudist one, would it be OK for me to act in a sexually overt manner?" Obviously, the answer is no. So, it's also "no" in a nude resort.

Nudists need to decide if our desire is to sexualize society, or simply free it from its bondage to clothing. I think most of us would say that society is sexualized enough as it is, and that we need to concentrate on one thing -- clothes-freedom, not sexual freedom. Leave that battle to others (if it needs to be fought at all; I would say it doesn't).

[nuada]

Very well said. Its the intent that matters.

[David77]

Why is it that one can't be a nudist and recognize their sexuality? :D

Nudist DO RECOGNIZE their sexuality - they just don't perform sexual acts in the open, but wait until they are in their tent or room.

I believe that nudist sexuality is quite evident when they enjoy talking and socializing with the opposite sex, for instance.

Nudists do not turn the nudist resort into a public orgy display of two persons or twenty two persons.

[nudenwv]

i personally don't group people as to their sexual drive. i invite all nudists to become a part of my social friends. if i see they are becoing a threat then i handle it. let's just be ourselves and enjoy this lifestyle!

[EricNY]

i personally don't group people as to their sexual drive. i invite all nudists to become a part of my social friends. if i see they are becoing a threat then i handle it. let's just be ourselves and enjoy this lifestyle!


That is a good outlook........But we need to remember it is not just how it affects us personally. It is how it affects people's perception of what naturism is about.

Imagine a man who finally persuades his S/O to go to a nude resort. Reluctantly the S/O goes and finds a sexually charged atmosphere. Instead of getting turned on to the comforts of social nudity, ends up getting turned off because it was not sex they were after.

[Pete Knight]

That is a good outlook........But we need to remember it is not just how it affects us personally. It is how it affects people's perception of what naturism is about.

Imagine a man who finally persuades his S/O to go to a nude resort. Reluctantly the S/O goes and finds a sexually charged atmosphere. Instead of getting turned on to the comforts of social nudity, ends up getting turned off because it was not sex they were after.
Quite!

Live and let live is all very well but you can't bury your head in the sand.
Apologies for the mixed metaphors!

I said it many times and I'll say it again, different lifestyles are fine by me, swingers, doggers, fetish, anything just as long as they don't try to hide behind naturism, or claim it to be part of naturism.

Pete Knight

[NudeAl]

Apples and oranges to me really.

I have been around nudists and nude resorts beaches etc long enough that I really do not associate public nudity with sex.

Here is the deal, we have had a long hard fight just to get to the lousy state of affairs we are in now. The state of nudism in this country is not where I had hoped it would be 20 years ago when I first started going to nude beaches. We run into a stretch of progress where we are tolerated then BAM! Some new A**hole comes along and then we have a nude beach closed and forever lost to our cause. All it takes is lewd behavior and one busy body to report it and you lose again. I am tired of losing my nude beaches because of the behavior of some selfish jerks, GET A ROOM!!!

Just because we take our clothes off does not mean we leave our morals on the floor with them.

[Eric6420]

In one hand, most people consider nudism to have a sexual connotation even though it is not sex itself. Other activities that may have a sexual connotation are dancing, disco music, massages, swimming, sauna, jacuzy, sports, not to mention many ads that have a sexual connotation.

If you take the web, the most popular porn site has more trafic in most western countries(if not all) than all religious web sites together.

I mean sex is almost everywhere, it is part of our culture. It is on tv, in the movies, on the internet, not to mention sex shops and other sex oriented business.

If you take Cap d'Agde, the post popular nudist place in the World, there is a sex shop there and other adult activities.

So, I do not see why naturists should worry about naturist resorts being too sexy, when most other people do not have a problem with it.

[Pete Knight]

In one hand, most people consider nudism to have a sexual connotation even though it is not sex itself. Other activities that may have a sexual connotation are dancing, disco music, massages, swimming, sauna, jacuzy, sports, not to mention many ads that have a sexual connotation.

If you take the web, the most popular porn site has more trafic in most western countries(if not all) than all religious web sites together.

I mean sex is almost everywhere, it is part of our culture. It is on tv, in the movies, on the internet, not to mention sex shops and other sex oriented business.

If you take Cap d'Agde, the post popular nudist place in the World, there is a sex shop there and other adult activities.

So, I do not see why naturists should worry about naturist resorts being too sexy, when most other people do not have a problem with it.

We don't have a problem with it, but you seem to do so though.

Naturism isn't devoid of sexuality but then its not the main topic either, just like in textile life we have our sexuality but not in front of each other, at my club we have a mix of people, some are to shy or uptight to talk about sexual matters, others can have a laugh and joke, talk about sex and be quite normal just as you'd find anywhere else, we even have one couple who admit to having sex on the club grounds when they have the place to themselves, we think its a great laugh but they wouldn't consider doing it when there are other members around and I don't think they would get too good a reception if they tried!

So sex is there all the time, just not blatantly, or are you suggesting that we should all be getting it off together on the sun lawns, if thats the case you're with the wrong organisation mate, join a swingers club.

Pete Knight

[bernardc]

Look,one must distinguish between the two terms...Sex,and sexuality.To put it bluntly,and some will disagree,and thats their right,Sex in a manner of speaking is the "pornographic experience manifested by the developement of your sexual awareness"
Sexuality has to do with honour,respect,non violence(woman abuse/battering),protection,and acceptance.Sexualityy is the estetic progress to the point where it is physically expressed in the intercourse as love expressed onto and into a physical plain.The act of sex is the physical oneness between lovers during copulation.Sexuality,is the forming of your own identity and sexual orientation.Sexuality is also the process wherby the body is discovred and explored by yourself,aquainting one with ones own prefrences..Nudism is an integral part of sexuality,there is where your sexual identification and orientation is experienced.
Looking at a female or a male or a child in the nude,one ,as a nudist sees the sheer beauty of the individual being naked,thus you see the esthetic value of that person or child.Sex expresses the lust and desire part of matured sexuality,once your orientation and identification is finalised.For example,a boy might come to a nudist institution for the first time,and then devellope an erection,as a normal part of his sexual developement,and the sheer pleasure of not being ashamed of his penis when he is seen naked,and sees other naked people is at the very root of that erection.Usualy its just a plain old sensation of freedom.One could say that the stigma of the penis as a general no see area,is suddenly freed and open,and no longer shrouded in mystery and shame and deathly secresy,and one sees that what you have,others have as well.The male especially,that have these first innitial experiences(including boys) find an extacy of freedom,and his most treasured rellic,is open for all to see,notice and appreciate.The erection,hence,is the response of pleasure,not lust,and he desires no sexual act with others.Sexuality is the beauty of others,and brings and builds respect and comfort ,towards others,and with others.
Yes,sexuality is a part of nudism,and must be dealt with normaly.Its no shame to experience certain sensations at certain times.Nudism is the hollistic contact of the body with all of nature,trees,earth,wind,water ,sand , grass and others,The sexuality is the awakening of those sensations,bringing it to the open,yet,VOID OF LUST!
In short,sexuality is the awakening of pure naked natural pleasure by elements of nature without lust,and deals with the entire human being ,and is purely a sense of emotions never before felt amongst others,triggred by hormones,its a soul thing.
Sex deals only with the genitals,only concentrates on the genitals.and is fired by desire,commonly called lust.Equate sexuality with nudism,its natural,but sex,purely because one is nude,thats something totally different.
Nudism devellopes and envellopes sexual awareness,and is the breaking down gradually of shaming walls...and body hatred.Nudism gives sexuality confidence,and is expanded to many others.
Sex is the climactic release of intense physical love,as I said before,only involving the genitals.Sex is an act,sexuality is a living.One should,and must say that sexuality is at the very basis of nudism,and can be appropriated as such.But one can never appropriate sex to nudism and naturism.Sexuality and sex must be seperated.Bernardc.

[Eternity]

However, is it acceptable for a naked man to openly compliment a naked woman as appearing "very sexy"? Maybe it isn't appropriate for a woman to shake her breasts at men as they walk by or for a man to shake his penis at the women. But is it okay for a naked person to watch a naked person of the opposite sex dance and appreciate the sexual nature of that display?


I don't think it's a grey area, the lack of clothing doesn't make it less acceptable.

[inudist]

Why is it that one can't be a nudist and recognize their sexuality? What is the push to keep them two concepts completely separate? I don't understand it.

Like, sure, when I go to a nude place (beach/park/whatever) I am not drooling over the bodies and thinking about sex however I do have a sex drive so why do people on this forum - and some other - freak out whenever it is brought up???
:D

It sounds to me like you answered your own question here. You can be nude without thinking about sex which is pretty much separating these two concepts.

I don't think most of us believe that most nudists don't recognize their sexuality or have sexual thoughts or get freaked out at the thought of sex either. Nudists do recognize that there are other reasons for getting naked besides sex.

I do think is important for nudists to distinguish between these to concepts mainly to counter the long entrenched public perception that nudity equals sex and many use these arguments to discredit nudism and get anti nudity laws passed and people arrested etc.

By educating people that nudism can be a healthy and wholesome activity hopefully will make it more acceptable or at least tolerated by most people.

[Enjoying life]

I think as nudists we have to keep them separated. If we are ever going to have some kind of foot hold on our society, on the subject of nudism and it clean cut image. We have to keep them separate. To use the words wholesome family lifestyle, we have to keep the words sexual out of it, or people are just not going to respect the life style. I will admit that new people to the life style bring in this types of question and that alright. They have question they need answered and that why we have forums like this one. I guess it's up to the long timers to lead the pack and keep things on the straight and narrow.

[FreeinNJ]

Most nudist resorts and beaches and family friendly so there is reason #1, no need to have the little ones exposed to sex.
If your looking for something more then explore places like Hedo in Jamaica and leave the nudist places pure

[EricS]

I think the two should be separate unless you are in an adults-only area. I'm a member at a family-friendly camp because I enjoy being nude, not so people will see me. When I visit during the week it's not uncommon for me to be the only person there.

[mmacdonaldca]

I agree with some of the posters that sex and sexuality are two different things. Sexuallity is something we all experience as sexual beings. Being clothed, or being naked does not change that at all. Its our actions that dictate whether we cross a line into it being about sex. Nudism in general is not about se for me. Its about being comfortable and free to express my true self. Part of that self is my sexual side. However, for me sexual might simply mean being attracted to someone. Seeing a naked perosn in front of me, I might be attracted to them. But I would be they were clothed as well. Its my actions that would turn it into something it should not be (at least in a public situtation).
This is a hard question to come to terms with because the definitions mean something different to each of us. For me, nudism is simply the freedom to be myself!

[richo]

In the clothed world, there are family resorts and adult-only resorts.

In the nudist world, there should be family resorts and adult-only resorts.

Plain and simple.

[inudist]

In the clothed world, there are family resorts and adult-only resorts.

In the nudist world, there should be family resorts and adult-only resorts.

Plain and simple.

I disagree.
I believe that we need to quit playing these word games and call these so called "adult only resorts" for what they are. They are swinger's resorts.

This makes it too easy for non-nudists to lump both into one pot and discredit nudism.

[Cheri]

I disagree.
I believe that we need to quit playing these word games and call these so called "adult only resorts" for what they are. They are swinger's resorts.

This makes it too easy for non-nudists to lump both into one pot and discredit nudism.


Some adult resorts/parks are just that such as Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs, CA. Owners uphold the principles of what nudism should be about.

[nickuma09]

^ well said. 'adults only' does sadly carry a sexual connotation, but really it can simply mean the absence of children/anyone under 18 years of age. there are plenty of textile resorts (Sandals comes to mind) where it's 18+ simply because some people are looking for a quiet getaway.

[FreeinNJ]

I disagree.
I believe that we need to quit playing these word games and call these so called "adult only resorts" for what they are. They are swinger's resorts.

This makes it too easy for non-nudists to lump both into one pot and discredit nudism.


See I would love a childless place to go that was not for swinger.

[inudist]

Some adult resorts/parks are just that such as Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs, CA. Owners uphold the principles of what nudism should be about.

I guess I'm mistaken with the examples such as Terra Cotta Inn, but these terms make it all confusing. Apparently I rushed to judgement where I shouldn't have. Adults only just brings that sexual connotation for me. Another example Is Hippie Hollow park in Austin which is a 18+ public park that is generally well policed about lewd activity.

[johnniep1]

The reason why the nudist scene and nudism, in general, isn't the sex-packed experience
an outsider would expect it to be is because of the removal of the societal taboo of mix-
ed gender nudity. In the nudist world, there is no separation of the sexes, as there is in
the clothing world. Ergo, the "forbidden fruit" is no longer there. The absence of the for-
bidden element of life, something that all of us have to deal with as we grow up and ma-
ture, allows the the nudist to not have to look at the world sexually, as the clothing
world does, at least in the U.S.
Repression in life is not, at all a desirable thing. However, that has always been the way
of life here at home. Simply put, if nudism were the customary lifestyle in the United
States, America's pornography industry would be out of business the day after tomorrow.

[MINUDE]

I think for first time nudists, it is natural to confuse the two issues. In my opinion, sex is something that is a private matter and should be conducted privately. Nudism is a whole different and seperate issue.

Being nude seems to be completely natural and is something that can be conducted by entire family members. I can't say the same for things that are sexual. It is not always appropriate to express sexual urges in a public setting.

This forum always has a running thread about erections and nudism. Invariably, it is a newbe to naturism that is asking about that issue. In time that "problem" seems to disappear along with the confusion between nudism and sexuality.

Just my 2 pence!

[Centauri4]

... Adults only just brings that sexual connotation for me. Another example Is Hippie Hollow park in Austin which is a 18+ public park that is generally well policed about lewd activity.

I am surprised that ANY state could call something a "Public Park" and yet restrict its use to only those aged 18 and up! This seems like it would be a violation of some kind of fair use laws, equal access or something, regardless of whether the location allows clothing-optionality or not.

~

[Centauri4]

There are some really great responses in this thread. I am glad that I stopped to look it over!



... Being nude seems to be completely natural and is something that can be conducted by entire family members. I can't say the same for things that are sexual. It is not always appropriate to express sexual urges in a public setting. ...


All of these things, nudism, sexuality and "public" behavior, have their inherent "degrees of acceptability" and perception by all people that I have ever met. So, I think what we are really talking about is "group mentality" or "majority rules" type of things when it comes to behavior.

Personally, I would not be offended if two people wanted to engage in public sexual behavior at a location I visited as long as there was SOME TYPE of indication this activity was likely to take place. Once a basic level of awareness is established, it then becomes less of an issue for me.

I'm not advocating people run out and try and lobby for "Erotic Beaches" in addition to "Nude Beaches", no, definitely not - - the Nude beaches are difficult enough to establish and legitimize when it comes to the need for civil patrols, law enforcement, and so on. An "erotic beach" if such a thing could even remotely be envisioned, established and run by a group of people would be (I guess) ten times the handful a simple nude beach is, and that is because there are so many laws on the books regarding consensual sexual acts and behavior.

So this is my point, I think the majority of people want "Seperation of Nudism and Sexuality" because one is significantly easier to manage, organize, talk about, and openly share a photographic history on; while the other is otherwise HIGHLY restricted (to 18+ as mentioned).

As a nudist I do not deny we have "sexual sides" and "sensual sides", but I think the mentality of it all is something along the lines of "(I) can manage this (any sexual feelings) and it is my brain that determines my actions and not another part of my anatomy." The times when I have met any guy, mostly prior to becoming a nudist over twenty-two years ago, who felt compelled to engage in sexual or sexually-oriented behavior and that the compulsion was SO STRONG he could set aside other morals and ethics, I quite simply felt sorry for that person.

I would not go so far as to say they were "mentally handicapped", but it is pretty close to the truth - - and the next level of weakness when it comes to setting aside moral and ethical behavior in the name of sexual gratification IS criminal behavior. Preverts, rapist, and child molesters are, it seems likely, those that do not have well defined boundaries in their personal background and this is what "allows" them to do these things.

Our brains and our ability to create all manner of structured social environments ARE what set us aside from other animals. And nudism as a structured social environment is completely separate from the "swinger" environment or any of the other ones previously mentioned in this thread that I have never even heard of!!

~

[Being-veggie-being]

Certainly the mind controls the body. Social un-conditioning is something most people have to go through before they make peace with their own nudity and others nudity.:)

[later]

Small children have a great advantage when it comes to enjoying nudism. They have no ingrained feels, thoughts or experience with sex and sexuality, as least let’s hope not. If these same kids, as they age, continue to enjoy nudist activities they are way ahead of the rest of us who decide at some point to try nudity. These kids have formed the understanding that simple nudity does not equal some possible form of sexual activity. They do learn that some form of nudity is involved with a sex act, but can draw a defiant line between the two.
The rest of us, whether late teen or adults, who also decide to try nudity, must deal with a bag full of stuff in our heads that says, “ You are naked to change cloths, bath, and have sex. You have no other reason to be nude.” Add to this the bombardment of stuff we see and hear, that makes the nude body, or any nude part of the body sexy and erotic.
We found for ourselves, and during conversations with others, that how the mind deals with nudism is a ‘time served’ proposition. The beginning is a little uncomfortable, unsure, with mixed feelings. If you were raised in a non-nude environment, you must admit that at first you question your decision. You find you are enjoying the act of being in the nude, but consciously or subconsciously your mind is sending mixed signals. Is it okay? Is it proper? Most were raised not to enjoy openly nude activities. Some must also add the baggage of strong religious teachings.
If we continue, or serve our time, most realize that being nude is just that, being nude. We learn to enjoy, our comfort level increases, and we train our minds to a new way of looking at sex, sexuality and our bodies. We soon become comfortable in mixed company while nude. This does not mean we don’t admire the female and male nude bodies we see, we’re sexual beings. Time teaches our minds to separate simple nudity, whether it’s an afternoon in the back yard, on the beach or at a club, from being nude in a private erotic or sexual charged circumstance.
All who have ‘ served their time’, usually get past the nudity equals sex debate, by simply becoming more at ease with their own nudity. They enjoy being nude, period. Their doing it for their own reasons and for most it has nothing to do with sex. If seeing the odd erection, a little playful touching upsets you, your still carrying baggage. You’re so unsure in your own mind that anything that is slightly sexual upsets you or worse angers you. We, my wife and I may have learned to separate simple nudity and nudity for sex, but good luck if you think you or everyone else can stop being sexual creatures. And please don’t assume we are saying that flag waving erections and making out like rabbits is fine, we’re not. Way to many in the nudist lifestyle would like the textile world to believe we leave our sexuality in your clothing when you remove it, falsely believing that will gain us more acceptance. B.S. We don’t buy that, why would they. Try this, “ We enjoy all the same activities you do, we just prefer to be nude. We’re sure you’re not shocked by nude bodies at this point considering you can see several a day by just watching your television or reading a magazine. Just because we’re nude does not mean we’ll be having any more, or any less sex while camping, hiking, going to the beach or sitting out in our backyards, then you clothed people do. When you remove your clothing you don’t become a slobbering sex maniac do you? So why would we?"

[colosseum]

I agree that the act of being nude doesn't need to be considered something sexual, as defined by our society.

[alejandro1024]

i get naked in front of friends all the time & i dont feel sexual towards them..my closest friends r the ones that get naked w/me & have no problem w/nudity..closer as in plutonic & not sexual.

[Nude in the North]

Why is it that one can't be a nudist and recognize their sexuality? What is the push to keep them two concepts completely separate? I don't understand it. Like, sure, when I go to a nude place (beach/park/whatever) I am not drooling over the bodies and thinking about sex however I do have a sex drive so why do people on this forum - and some other - freak out whenever it is brought up???
:D

I've never cared for the term "Non Sexual Nudity" It is used way too often when trying to defend nudists/naturists. The term "Simple Nudity" would sit better with me.
I just figure if your always having to use the word Sex to prove what your doing doesn't have anything to do with sex, then you don't need to use the word.

Sure nudists have Sexuality. It's just not the reason they enjoy nudism.
Sure nudists have Sex. It's just not something they would do in a public place with an audiance, or flaunt around unwilling spectators.