Not quite 5 months!!!

[codylechien]

* You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become District Manager after 143 days of experience.

* You couldn't become Chief of Surgery after 143 days of experience of being a surgeon.

* You couldn't get a job as a teacher and be the Superintendent after 143 days of experience.

* You couldn't join the military and become a Colonel after a 143 days of experience.

* You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the Nightly News Anchor after 143 days of experience.

BUT....

* 'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United States Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate.

* That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working.

* After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of Abraham Lincoln,FDR, JFK and Ronald Reagan. 143 days?

We all have to start somewhere. The Senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start.

AND,... strangely, a large sector of the American public seems to feel
comfortable with this and are campaigning for him.

We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are OK with this for the President of the United States of America?

Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

[bullet]

What? You mean a good looking, smooth talking, Harvard educated guy shouldn't be crowned King just because he asks to be? For the first time in my adult life, I'm shocked!!!! Maybe he and McCain should be asked to appear nude for their next debate, and the one who agrees wins! Wonder which one would be willing to expose themselves for who they really are?

[brazhunter]

and the one who agrees wins! Wonder which one would be willing to expose themselves for who they really are?

At the risk of exposing myself as a sexist male pig, I'd perfer Sarah Palin for that debate.

[shame on me, LOL]

[usmc1]

*

* 'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United States Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate.

Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

No, we're not are we.

But, a quick fact check puts the lie to your post, here's the short list, earlier I posted a full resume:

Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.

-After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

-His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.

-Obama created the Illinois Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families in 2000 and successfully sponsored a measure to make the credit permanent in 2003. The law offered about $105 million in tax relief over three years.

-Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

-As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.

-He traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world.

-Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.

- In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

-Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbied the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

-Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

-Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

-Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.

-Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the "gold standard" for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law.

<!-- /linkchecker_ignore -->

[codylechien]

First, thank you for your response, USMC1. You're obviously pro Obama. I'm not big on candidates who are deified by Hollywood AINOs (Americans in name only), or lauded by hordes of Europeans.

However, in the interest of lively, civil discussion, try to avoid character attack. If you were to have simply said, "When you alledged that a surgeon could not be a chief of surgery in 143 days" that was a lie because they're are 109 chiefs of surgerys in this country who had practiced surgery for less than 143 days before becoming chief of surgery. But to simply say, "my litany of what he's done confirms that you're lying" moves debate of the issue from a civil debate to mud-slinging and character assassination.

[Qikdraw]

First, thank you for your response, USMC1. You're obviously pro Obama. I'm not big on candidates who are deified by Hollywood AINOs (Americans in name only), or lauded by hordes of Europeans.

But that is also not a reason to not vote for him, who cares what other people think of a candidate?. To me its all about the issues. I am pro-Obama because I like his ideas about the economy and world affairs over McCains. While McCain has a track record, his track record these past 8 years have been following Bush, and now he is trying to distance himself from that. With Obama I do not know if he will do what he says, but I am willing to give him that chance. If he doesn't get rid of him in 4 years, but I do not want to see another 4 years of failed Bush policies, which from what I have seen is exactly what McCain has in mind, but even worse.

[usmc1]

First, thank you for your response, USMC1. You're obviously pro Obama. I'm not big on candidates who are deified by Hollywood AINOs (Americans in name only), or lauded by hordes of Europeans.

However, in the interest of lively, civil discussion, try to avoid character attack. If you were to have simply said, "When you alledged that a surgeon could not be a chief of surgery in 143 days" that was a lie because they're are 109 chiefs of surgerys in this country who had practiced surgery for less than 143 days before becoming chief of surgery. But to simply say, "my litany of what he's done confirms that you're lying" moves debate of the issue from a civil debate to mud-slinging and character assassination.

Please don't be disengenous. Your post was to the point that Obama lacks accomplishment and achievement and had absolutely nothing at all to do with hamburgers or surgeons. His short list puts the lie to that assertion.

If you do not care for the label, don't do the deed. We've had this discussion earlier this week; when one repeats or pertuates a lie, which is known to be a lie, then that puts one, saying it kindly, on global warming thinned ice of veracity. And as we all know, fiction and lies can be accomplished indirectly and by inference.

Anyone with the ability to get online, get themselves registered on this forum in order to post, has the ability to ferret out fact from fiction, it is your responsibility to fact check yourself, else someone will do it for you.

[luvnaturism]

I'd like to step back from the name calling a moment to enter a generic comment that I don't think either candidate has relevant experience.

Service in the Senate does not prepare one for the Presidency. Not only are they separate branches of government, but Senators do not lead anyone but their own staffs. It cannot be compared to taking control of the enormous federal civil bureaucracy + the entire military.

The two most comparable work experiences are to be governor, particularly of a large state, and to be a flag officer in the military (generals and admirals have a lot of diplomatic duties as well as leading large organizations). Against this standard Ms. Palin has more relevant work experience than either of the party leaders, and that's not much to say.

Working to pass legislation reveals one's ideology and priorities, but does nothing to reveal one's ability to inspire or force changes in the way the government does business. I suppose that building and leading the massive campaign organizations needed to win the election counts for something, but campaigning and governing are two very different skill sets.

So, in this election, it's just a distraction to talk about who's more qualified because of prior experience. On that measure neither is qualified. We'll all just have to vote for the one who's ideas we like most, and hope for the best when one of them is sworn in.

[Sanslines]

We'll all just have to vote for the one who's ideas we like most, and hope for the best when one of them is sworn in.

Voting for ideas is only a first step. We also have to look beyond that to a person's past record to determine if the person will be able to work with Congress to make the ideas a reality. All of the great ideas and promisses in the world are worthless if the person is not able get the ideas approved by the majority in Congress.

As a quick example, look at Nancy Pelosi and her '100 days agenda'. She had ideas but how many of those ideas became reality?

[Qikdraw]

Voting for ideas is only a first step. We also have to look beyond that to a person's past record to determine if the person will be able to work with Congress to make the ideas a reality. All of the great ideas and promisses in the world are worthless if the person is not able get the ideas approved by the majority in Congress.

As a quick example, look at Nancy Pelosi and her '100 days agenda'. She had ideas but how many of those ideas became reality?


I thought she got a lot of those put through? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought she did. Although I have been unhappy with her since then. :(

Obama's only hope is the democrats get a majority or nothing he wants to do will happen. The republicans will form a line and will not budge, then claim Obama isn't doing anything. One of the things that really annoy me about US politics is that it is getting too much party line thinking and that is it. Both sides do it. Which is why the us needs a multi party system. I know I know... you've never heard that from me before. :D

[Sanslines]

An examination of Obama's bounce

Convention attention gives Democrat gains in three key area

By Mark Blumenthal
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/nj_140x37-2.gif

Last week in this space, I argued (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26495571/) that we are better off looking beyond "the bounce" as measured in polls to more specific measures of what voters learn from the conventions and whether their views of the candidates have changed. Today I want to try to follow that advice.
Yes, in six different national surveys released early this week*, support for Barack Obama (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16438329/) has increased, so the Democrat has experienced a modest bounce. While the magnitude of the change differs, all six polls have Obama gaining, with most of the shift coming from the undecided category.

However, convention bumps can be fleeting, and as noted last week, the unique timing of this year's conventions makes historical comparisons problematic. So rather than obsess on the metaphysical meaning of the bump, let's look beyond the horse race to the "internals" -- questions within the latest surveys that show how voter perceptions of the candidates changed over the last week.

Three themes emerge from the data. First, Obama succeeded in bolstering his image as a tough, strong leader who Americans can imagine as their president.

• Diageo/Hotline (http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/08_Sept_Data.pdf) [PDF] reports a 15-point increase, from 25 percent to 40 percent, in the number of respondents who say Obama has done an excellent job "presenting himself as a potential president."
• CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/01/opinion/polls/main4405106.shtml) found a 10-point increase, from 48 percent to 58 percent since July, in the percentage that describes Obama as "tough enough."
• USA Today/Gallup (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-01-poll-monday_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip) shows Obama gaining 6 points, from 40 percent to 46 percent, as a "strong and decisive leader." He now leads John McCain (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16438320/) by 2 points on that measure (46 percent to 44 percent), having trailed by 8 (40 percent to 48 percent) just 10 days ago.

Second, Obama's efforts to "spell out exactly" what changes he would make as president had the desired effect. CBS News found half of its sample (50 percent) saying that Obama "has made it clear what he would do as president," a 9-point increase (from 41 percent) since before the convention.

Third, voters have resolved the skirmish between the campaigns on "elitism," for the moment at least, in favor of the Democrats. The Diageo/Hotline poll shows a 12-point jump, from 32 percent to 44 percent, in those who say Obama is greatly "in touch with the interests of the average American." Similarly, the CBS News survey shows nearly two-thirds of the voters (63 percent) agree that Obama "understands the needs of people like yourself," compared with only 41 percent who say the same about McCain.

However, many core perceptions of Obama remain the same. His favorable rating as measured by USA Today/Gallup and CBS News is virtually unchanged, while Diageo/Hotline shows a slight increase (from 55 percent to 60 percent favorable).

CBS News also found no change in the number of respondents who agree Obama "has prepared himself well enough for the job of president" (44 percent before and after the convention), although the number who say that Obama is not prepared has dropped slightly (from 49 percent to 43 percent).

While the past week helped deepen and change perceptions of Obama, neither the Democratic convention nor the announcement of Sarah Palin (http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080831_8485.php) as the Republican vice presidential pick has made much of a dent in perceptions of John McCain.

McCain's favorable ratings as measured by Diageo/Hotline and CBS News are virtually unchanged over the last 10 days. USA Today/Gallup reports a slight drop (from 59 percent to 54 percent favorable), which parallels a modest increase (from 41 percent to 47 percent) in those who are "very concerned" that McCain "would pursue policies that are too similar to what George W. Bush has pursued."

Still, virtually all of the changes are on the Obama side of the ledger. Next week, we will be able to assess the impact of Republican convention.

*The six new polls are: Gallup Daily, Rasmussen Reports, CBS News, Diageo/Hotline, CNN/Opinion Research Corp., USA Today/Gallup.

[Qikdraw]

I'm still not going to listen to polls until after debates start hapening. I don't care if Obama or McCain are up by 50 points, I still think it won't mean much until after people start seeing debates.

[Naturist Mark]

I thought she got a lot of those put through? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought she did. Although I have been unhappy with her since then. :(

They passed in the house. Almost everything this session has died in the Senate except the most basic bills that must be passed. That is the result of a deliberate tactic by the Republican leadership to obstruct every bill they can in order to be able to smear the Democratic led Congress as a "do-nothing" Congress. They have achieved this by setting an all time record for filibusters - over 90 so far in this session, the Republicans have even filibustered their own bills.
Shortly after the election, the Senate Minority Whip, Senator Trent Lott (R-Miss.), was interviewed as to his boasting that with only a one vote majority of 51 to 49, it still wouldn't give the Democrats the 60 votes needed to pass the bills going through the Senate. Senator Lott went on to say that based on this situation, the GOP members of the Senate would block as much legislation as possible by "filibustering everything that moves".

It was made very clear at the time that this was going to be the Republicans plan up to the 2008 election. This way, the republicans could run in 2008 on the fact that the Democrats had been given the majority in the Senate in 2006, but it had been their "do nothing 110th Congress", that had done virtually nothing for the last two years. At the time of the interview, there was a little "noise" made by the main-stream press about this approach by the Republicans, but that has long since died away. more (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/72357)

-Mark

[Sanslines]

It was made very clear at the time that this was going to be the Republicans plan up to the 2008 election.

-Mark

It is also very clear that the Democratic Plan is for Pelosi and others to go on 'vacation' and stay on 'vacation' until after the election. (As of 3 days ago, Pelosi was seeing the sights in Japan). This 'obstruction' and 'dereliction of duty' will prevent certain Democratic Party Loyalists from doing absolutely anything that will assist either Bush, McCain, or Republicans. The truth is that the extremists from both sides are at war with each other. Both extreme Democrats and Republicans need to be shown the door so the moderates from both sides can get back to work without further nonsense from the die hard, party loyalist extremists.

[Sanslines]

That is the result of a deliberate tactic by the Republican leadership to obstruct every bill they can in order to be able to smear the Democratic led Congress as a "do-nothing" Congress.
-Mark

Thank you for pointing out that a Democratic led Congress that can't even handle Republicans certainly can not handle the real enemies of this country and should not even be in office. If all that these particular Democratic politicians are capable of doing is to whinge about Republicans, then they don't need to be in office. Best to get rid of all extremists and allow the good moderate Democrats and Republicans to get to work and get something accomplished through compromise. Bipartisanship works.. Too bad a certain group of Democrats and Republicans are more interested in playing games and wasting time then doing their jobs. What are taxpayers paying for?

[Qikdraw]

*cough*Multi party system*cough*

:D

[Sanslines]

*cough*Multi party system*cough*

:D


Yes indeed and free from the biased, misleading, vengeful, divisive, and hateful nonsense that the die hard loyalists from BOTH parties are preaching. Get rid of them all and let those politicians from all parties who honestly put country first get to work.

[ki4kxq]

Thank goodness for a do nothing congress. That means that they can't be coming up with bs legislation. About the only thing that really needed to be passed was more drilling and other energy sources.

Congress not doing anything is always far less dangerous than one on a crusade.

[Qikdraw]

Thank goodness for a do nothing congress. That means that they can't be coming up with bs legislation. About the only thing that really needed to be passed was more drilling and other energy sources.

What is it with this drilling falicy? We won't see a drop of that oil for 20 years by the governments own numbers. Its just a canard by the republicans and oil companies, it will not help you one iota at the pumps. Not only that but there is nothing in what McCain talks about that guarentees that the oil newly drilled will be only for American markets. As it is we ship 1.8 million barrls of oil a day to sell on the open market. Just think how much it would lower our gas prices if we allowed our own national resources to be sold ONLY in the US.

The oil companies also need to start drilling in the 68 million acres they are already allowed to drill in, before we give them more land. Giving them more now is just idiotic.

Yes new energy sources need to be looked at, and invested in. Its too bad we are starting into the market at the back end and have to play catch up with European nations that are already have advanced technology in alternative energy.

Congress not doing anything is always far less dangerous than one on a crusade.

True, look what has happened when the republicans had control of the government. But sanslines is correct, we need to get the hardcore party liners out of office and put in people willing to work with one another for a better America. But we also need to get rid of lobbyists, and money in politics so that people in office are clean. No revolving door either.

[alfredr]

Somewhere along the line, the Republicans seemed to get the idea that with a majority of 50% +1, they had a mandate from the people to implement their programs. 50% + 1 is not a mandate! 50% + 1 means almost half the people were against you! You are supposed to work with the opposition at a time like that, to find common ground, not try to ride roughshod over them.

The Republicans didn't know how to behave as a majority party, the Democrats didn't know how to behave as a minority, and now they have both forgotten how to behave. Period.

Multiple parties would have some potential, but if you get too many parties, many are mostly a cult of personality, little more than a charismatic leader.

How about a Populist-Progressive Party? I always liked the sound of Christian Democrat also. Could they work with a Muslim Democrat party?

Vote the rascals out!

[usmc1]

...

How about a Populist-Progressive Party? I always liked the sound of Christian Democrat also. Could they work with a Muslim Democrat party?

Vote the rascals out!

Actually, you might be pleased to know that there is a very active progressive/populist movement alive in the U.S.. We're working at a grassroots level, education, organizing and mobilizing key demographics; particularly, young, web-savvy people.

We're getting people elected to city, school board, water district, county, and state officers, and slowly but steadily acquiring precinct chairs and party offices, primarily in the democratic part. But, in some regions of the country, there are a smattering of progressive Republicans..sort of an Oxymoron, i reckon, but the point is, that we're out here, we're building and I think our real influence and presence will be felt in 2010.

We want the rascals out as much as you or anyone, and our approach is to build the sort of party that reflects our values and select, and run, and elect the candidates that share and support those values.

It is a very time for us despicable, nasty, who knows what we do, stink-pot, community organizers, not only are we working to get Obama in the White House, and a majority in both houses, and more representation at the state level but, we are already working, organizing and fund-raising for 2010.

I'm looking forward to a vacation in 2013.