Palin's demon-haunted church

[garbo]

Click on this link and check out the activities at woman's church! Very scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM

[Boreas]

Wow that is scary. On so many levels. Several words come to mind: drug induced psychosis, psychosis, mind control, group hysteria.......

There are drugs that do that to people, and drugs that cure that.

For the record, I do believe that people can have spiritual experiences. I do not think this shows genuine stuff.

[jon71]

Charismatics (like Assembly of GOD) should be commended for their enthusiasm and willingness to be active in their faith. Unfortunately it all too often gets ahead of their good judgment and reason. My wife's boss in a Charismatic preacher (Pentacostal I think) and they occasionally discuss religion. My wife doesn't work for the church she keeps the books for a trucking company that is run my a husband/wife couple and the wife is a preacher too. I grew up in the exact opposite as a Southern Baptist. My preacher often said he couldn't get an "amen" out of the congregation for $20 and that's very sad in it's own way. I'm not there yet but I hope to find a church home someday that is alive and active but without going into some of the more odd (and sometimes unBiblical) practices of Charismatics. My impression of Palin has been that she's in the Huckabee (S. Baptist) mold of extreme doctrinism for the sake of extreme doctrinism. If she trends towards the more bizarre and unBiblical practices that sometimes occur in Charismatic churches that would be a step backwards. I don't want to condemn all Assembly of GOD, or all Pentecostal, or Church of GOD of Prophecy by any means. There will be many preachers and many congregants and they won't be all alike. Amongst them I'm sure there are many, many fine Christian people. Amongst them there is also dangerous false teachings that could lead people tragically astray. Thank you for sharing Garbo. I had just assumed she was S. Baptist or maybe out of the Bush wing of Methodist (many Methodist are no where close to that but that's another story) without ever checking.

[Sanslines]

Wow that is scary. On so many levels. Several words come to mind: drug induced psychosis, psychosis, mind control, group hysteria.......

There are drugs that do that to people, and drugs that cure that.

For the record, I do believe that people can have spiritual experiences. I do not think this shows genuine stuff.

Lord have mercy! Why can't people understand that religion is not about craziness or showmanship but about a personal relationship with God.

[jon71]

I just had another thought about this. Right now the religious right love Palin. If this gets enough notice I wonder if that will last. The Southern Baptists I grew up with have a VERY low opinion of Charismatics. Some consider them to be more or less occult. I wonder if she'll be hit with questions about speaking in tongues (sometimes legit but very misunderstood and usually misused) or anything else about her denominations beliefs. A lot of people at the S.B.C. for example would be hoping for a pretty full rejection of her church. If this gets picked up big things could get very interesting.

[Qikdraw]

Yes now the church wants to 'pray gays healthy'... They are pushing a program to bring in gays and they will pray him healthy.

And she spent 26 years in that church. What other wacky things did she come away with?

[Boreas]

Lord have mercy! Why can't people understand that religion is not about craziness or showmanship but about a personal relationship with God.

Amen brother! :)

[garbo]

There is something wrong with Sarah Palin.. very wrong. I am not sure exactly what it is yet, but it will come out eventually. She gave a fantastic speech at the Republican National Convention..even the Dems agree, but there is something lurking behind that attractive face and time will tell what it is.

[Sanslines]

Yes now the church wants to 'pray gays healthy'... They are pushing a program to bring in gays and they will pray him healthy.

And she spent 26 years in that church. What other wacky things did she come away with?

Ya know, the same things were said about Obama and the Rev Wright. Ok so everyone who runs for politics is wacky............glad we have that cleared up.

[usmc1]

Yes now the church wants to 'pray gays healthy'... They are pushing a program to bring in gays and they will pray him healthy.

And she spent 26 years in that church. What other wacky things did she come away with?
That Bush is doing God's work in Eye-Rack!, need more, the truth is out there! I still wonder how that bit will play with our Arab allies taht are already setting on the prssure cooker of reaction to our presence occupauing Iraq.

[Naturist Mark]

My impression of Palin has been that she's in the Huckabee (S. Baptist) mold of extreme doctrinism for the sake of extreme doctrinism. If she trends towards the more bizarre and unBiblical practices that sometimes occur in Charismatic churches that would be a step backwards. ... I had just assumed she was S. Baptist or maybe out of the Bush wing of Methodist (many Methodist are no where close to that but that's another story) without ever checking.

Palin's church is part of the "Third Wave" or "hyper-Charismatic" movement that grew out of Pentecostalism, but has been labeled as heretical by most Pentecostals, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. It is a end-time dominionist movement that believes it is being prepared to take over all of the Christian church, and nations, under God's authority for the time of tribulation.

Oh ... and they believe in demons, generational curses, in old gods that challenge the throne of Heaven, healing with headbutts, and the raising of a force they call "Joel's Army" which is an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian 'dominion' on non-believers.

Here's a fun read: Sarah Palin's Demon Haunted Churches - The Complete Edition (http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/8/114332/7479)

Re Bush: His wife is a member of the United Methodist Church, so that is listed as his official denomination, but his religious revival occurred back in the 80s as he was struggling with coming to terms with his alcoholism, he was brought by a few friends into the men's Community Bible Study group (CBS) - an interdenominational, but evangelically based program. Bush gives Billy Graham credit for personally converting him, but it is clear that the evangelical religious views he espouses derive from his immersion in the Men's CBS and not to Methodism or Graham. More from Frontline's excellent documentary The Jesus Factor (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/president/)

-Mark

[Sanslines]

I am still trying to figure out where the real believers of the 'mark of the beast' are hiding these days.

[Boreas]

My understanding of Methodism is that it has a strong social justice ministry. I do not see any of that in GWB.

[Dolby]

The more I hear about this, the more unnerving it becomes. Particularly of concern is the intolerance of other faiths. Although for practical purposes any faith other than some variety of "Christianity" usually disqualifies one from the VP or presidency.

Of course I expect nothing less from the Republicans since our current president has already stated that my faith "is not a real religion." I'm sure he heard that from God, too.

[David77]

Any religious group can become CHRISMATIC. There are even Catholic chrismatics as explained in the following;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

To my surprise, I have seen Catholic chrismatics, but it is not common.

I suspect (but I do not know) that especially people who have a strong need for emotional outlet gravitate to the chrismatics.

I have known fine Assembly of God people, but we rarely talk about religion, and then only briefly. Those I know do not want to discuss talking in tongues, and the interpretating of the "message" given in tongues.

FREE METHODISTS can get quite emotional and fall down in ecstasy (or whatever) at religious camp meetings.

[jon71]

Thank you for that Naturist Mark. I thought I knew the basics about charismatics but the third wave stuff is new to me. I think of regular charismatics as occasionally outside the Bible but mostly just misunderstood because of their wilder style. This sounds like much further out than that with a far more tenuous hold on the scriptures. For the record I do think that demons exist just like I believe that angels exist but I'm not a person who every time I get a hangnail I'm going to say a demon did it. People who exaggerate that sort of thing whether it's those who see demons behind everything they disagree with or those who have more or less made angels a "fad" in recent years make it harder to look at spiritual warfare in a serious Biblical fashion. It is mostly unseen, just taking place in people's hearts and souls, not so much in the physical realm. The rest of the stuff like generational curses and healing with headbutts sounds like they made it up completely.

[usmc1]

My understanding of Methodism is that it has a strong social justice ministry. I do not see any of that in GWB.

Ahhh Methodism. One of my ancestors, Anne Francis Piggott, brought Methodism to the Illinois frontier and later helped establish the First Methodist Church in St. Louis. I am descended, on one side, from a long line of Methodist circuit riders, whose families departed Georgia in the 1860's due to the slavery issue.

Yes, the Methodist's have a long history of social justice in their ministries. The problem is that in protestantism the various denominations have split into so many different sects, usually around interpreting differently a phrase or two from the bible, that you can find, today, people calling themselves Methodist who share none of those social justice beliefs and none of that denominations really socially important and rich history.

You see the process I'm speaking of evolving in many churches today over the issue of ordination and/or marraige of gays.

[Boreas]

FREE METHODISTS can get quite emotional and fall down in ecstasy (or whatever) at camp meetings.

Apparently my ancestors were FREE Methodists, not to be confused apparently, with mere Methodists! :rolleyes:

[Boreas]

Ahhh Methodism. One of my ancestors, Anne Francis Piggott, brought Methodism to the Illinois frontier and later helped establish the First Methodist Church in St. Louis. I am descended, on one side, from a long line of Methodist circuit riders, whose families departed Georgia in the 1860's due to the slavery issue.

Yes, the Methodist's have a long history of social justice in their ministries. The problem is that in protestantism the various denominations have split into so many different sects, usually around interpreting differently a phrase or two from the bible, that you can find, today, people calling themselves Methodist who share none of those social justice beliefs and none of that denominations really socially important and rich history.

You see the process I'm speaking of evolving in many churches today over the issue of ordination and/or marraige of gays.

My ancestors were also probably circuit riders promoting temperence. I am aware of one who planted a Methodist congregation in the Toronto area. Well, now it is Toronto area, back then in was the wilderness, and a long horse trip from TO.

I am now a member of the United Church which takes it social justice side from the Methodist ancestors, since the UCC is a blend of Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational churches. The UCC was one of the first to recognize same sex marriage, and other same sex issues. It caused a HUGE fight in 1988 and subsequent split.

You might even find a charismatic member or two of the UCC, but I imagine that is fairly rare. We are as Jon (I think) described, where you have to find creative ways to get us to say ay-men. :o

[David77]

Eplanation of what is the Free Methodist denomination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Methodist_Church_of_North_America

[David77]

You might even find a charismatic member or two of the UCC, but I imagine that is fairly rare.

On Jazz Sunday each January in the local Unitarian Church, a jazz band supplies all the music instead of the organ playing "Bach". Some persons in the congregation spontaniously get up and dance in the isles.

[Sanslines]

On Jazz Sunday each January in the local Unitarian Church, a jazz band supplies all the music instead of the organ playing "Bach". Some persons in the congregation spontaniously get up and dance in the isles.

Back in the day, Elvis the Pelvis 'wild' pelvis gyrations were considered highly sinful and immoral that would corrupt 'young , innocent girls'. Let's hope that such gyrations do not occur in any church.

[David77]

Let's hope that such gyrations do not occur in any church.

Not me! I got a sore back!

No, it's tame.

I have also seen some modern dance performances in church services which contributed to a very effective worship service. I'm for using the arts to communicate. The bible speaks of using song and dance in worship. Gyrations is not it, however.

St. Boniface Catholic Church in Germantown Illinois had a POLKA MASS over this Labor Day week-end. Instead of the organ playing classical music, a band played polka music for the mass.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Qikdraw]

Apparently my ancestors were FREE Methodists, not to be confused apparently, with mere Methodists! :rolleyes:

Thank God I'm non-denominational. The church I grew up in was baptist and it split after the idiots told the pastor that they wanted him to preach 'don't do this, don't do that', instead of preaching how to get out and minister to the community. They wanted nothing to do with the community, they just wanted to go to church and look down on everyone who doesn't. You know the type, the old fashioned christians who think that long hair is the sign of the devil.
After the church split the new non-denominational church stretch out into teh community by having stuff like 'moms morning out' where church ladies would babysit one day a week, for free, at our church and allow mothers to go do errands without having to worry about their kids. No preaching, no pushing bibles into kids hands, just a nice service to the ladies of the community. This ended up growing the size of the church very quickly. Nice, quiet outreach programs bring people in, not fire and brimestone, which sadly is a lot of so called 'christians'.

[hm0504]

Couple of things...

Bush's Methodist church and he disagree strongly over a number of things.

http://www.adherents.com/people/pb/George_W_Bush.html

While Bush may technically belong to a Methodist church, his religious leanings are more in line with the religious right.

Re Palin, she switched from Assemblies of God six years ago to the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church. (I would imagine that it would be hard to be in Assemblies of God which prohibits dancing, due to its lascivious nature, while one's daughter is in the cheerleading squad.) Wasilla Bible Church, nonetheless, has supported speakers with questionable religious utterances including those pertaining to Jews in Israel are being killed by God because they are not converting to Christianity and that the Iraq invasion is part of God's plan (oh wait, Palin herself was saying that).

Obviously, one cannot automatically glue statements by church leaders on to their flock, but if members of their flock are running for political office, those members need to separate themselves from obnoxious statements and, if there are too many such statements, separate themselves from the church. Obama did; now Palin too must show that she rejects those teachings and will not associate herself with a church that promotes abhorrent views (otherwise, we assume she is willing to be associated with those views).

[David77]

Wasilla Bible Church website;

http://wasillabible.org/

[Naturist Mark]

Obviously, one cannot automatically glue statements by church leaders on to their flock

Certainly not!

However, you can surely 'glue' those statements that the flock members themselves make from the pulpit - such as Gov. Palin just this last June during a church service.

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[Boreas]

On Jazz Sunday each January in the local Unitarian Church, a jazz band supplies all the music instead of the organ playing "Bach". Some persons in the congregation spontaniously get up and dance in the isles.

Oh, you'll get jazz and all manner of musical talent in your local United Church, which I believe is most closely related to United Methodist in the US. It might look charismatic at times. We are a pretty relaxed bunch, even if we aren't always emotive people! :o

[Boreas]

Yes, I am quite aware of the United Church of Christ as we have many of these churches in the area where I live. In fact, a United Church of Christ seminary named "Eden Seminary" is relatively close to where I live. Our Unitarian pastor graduated from that seminary a few years ago. Eventhough he is Unitarian, he is employed there to teach part time regarding what I call "field work experience" of the students.

Of all the standard Protestant churches, (I am excluding Unitarians) the United Church of Christ is the most liberal. Yes, commitment ceremonies (or actual gay marriages when legal) are performed there as well as at Unitarian Churches. Women ministers are common-place. Mild ragtime music was played at our church service recently and it was very inspirational, and artistically added beauty to the service.

Hi David, I am not talking about the United Church of Christ. I am talking about the United Church of Canada. They may or may not be similar. I am not sure.

http://www.united-church.ca/

For a little about the history: http://www.united-church.ca/history/overview/brief/