Muslim Children Gassed at Dayton Mosque After Obsession DVD Hits Ohio

[Qikdraw]

Muslim Children Gassed at Dayton Mosque After Obsession DVD Hits Ohio (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/muslim-children-gassed-at_b_130076.html)

Friday, September 26th ended a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West -- the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail -- were distributed by mail in Ohio. The same day, a "chemical irritant" was sprayed through a window of the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton, where 300 people were gathered for a Ramadan prayer service. The room that the chemical was sprayed into was the room where babies and children were being kept while their mothers were engaged in prayers. This, apparently, is what the scare tactic political campaigning of John McCain's supporters has led to -- Americans perpetrating a terrorist attack against innocent children on American soil.

I hope the McCain campaign is going to tell the 527 that sent those dvds out to stop, and denounce this attack. This is a direct example of 'cause and effect'. The McCain campaign should be ashamed that one of their 527s sent out a hateful dvd like this.

[Qikdraw]

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BECK: I can’t look at Barney Frank any more. I can’t take it.

GOLDBERG: I almost think he should be in jail! I almost think the guy should be in jail!

BECK: Oh I do too! I absolutely do. I think — honestly, I think we should have at least, bare minimum, we should have stockades in front of the Capitol building. Some of these people are out and out criminals on what they have done. […]

GOLDBERG: It is an incredibly poisonous situation. You know in the middle ages, Harry Reid would have his stomach cut open and a half-starved weasel thrown in, for the kinds of things he’s doing. It’s outrageous!

Is it any wonder why someone who listens to this crap would go out and kill people in a 'liberal' church because of ideology? Republican talking heads consistantly spew violence against 'liberals' and their followers listen to them. Any talking head that talks of violence against anyone else should be taken off the air. At the very least, if not face criminal charges the way Charles Manson did. He was the ringleader that told people to kill other peole, is this any less than what some republican talking heads do?

I find it sickening.

[JeepNude]

This has NOTHING to do with Presidential hopeful John McCain, and has nothing to do with Conservative/Liberal politics.

Blaming this on anyone except the individual(s) that performed the attack is irresponsible.

How would you like it if someone blamed you for every flasher caught on the subway?

[Qikdraw]

This has NOTHING to do with Presidential hopeful John McCain, and has nothing to do with Conservative/Liberal politics.

Blaming this on anyone except the individual(s) that performed the attack is irresponsible.

How would you like it if someone blamed you for every flasher caught on the subway?

Is every flasher out there supporting my run for president? Did I blame McCain in any way? No I did not. I called on the McCain campaugn to denounce one of their supporting groups. Which they haven't. (or at least I haven't heard they have)

[Ken Palmer]

This sounds like a terrible incident! I couldn't imagine doing something like this to innocent children, particularly in a mosque or church! I hope whoever did this is caught and brought to justice. I can understand things that go on in a war between military forces and even factions of guerrilla fighters fighting against conventional military forces. But this to me is over the line and reprehensible. I am certainly hoping and praying that McCain had nothing to do with this dastardly attack.

Ken Palmer



Muslim Children Gassed at Dayton Mosque After Obsession DVD Hits Ohio (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rodda/muslim-children-gassed-at_b_130076.html)



I hope the McCain campaign is going to tell the 527 that sent those dvds out to stop, and denounce this attack. This is a direct example of 'cause and effect'. The McCain campaign should be ashamed that one of their 527s sent out a hateful dvd like this.

[Bob S.]

Qikdraw: "This is a direct example of 'cause and effect'."

Now I have never heard the Obsession DVD (I have heard about it online and in the paper) but from what I understand, it did not espouse violence. If it did, I doubt the many newspapers that distributed it as a form of protected speech would have allowed the DVD to come anywhere near their offices.

Now calling the Obsession a cause of the gassing is wrong. Was it a catalyst to the gassing by someone who was already on the edge of wanting to haem others? Perhaps. But saying that is was responsible for this horrendous crime is wrong. That is like saying violent video games and violent movies led to the Colombine attack.

Also, from what I read about the DVD film, it is an attack against radical Islam, not against all Islam. The creators of the movie more than likely will also denounce the attack on the mosque as, well, extremism as a terrorist attacked a peaceful group of citizens, something they abhor in radical Islam.

Bob S.

[Qikdraw]

Also, from what I read about the DVD film, it is an attack against radical Islam, not against all Islam. The creators of the movie more than likely will also denounce the attack on the mosque as, well, extremism as a terrorist attacked a peaceful group of citizens, something they abhor in radical Islam.

Bob S.

Here is the problem with that though, it is against radical Islam, but a lot of Americans just will not see the difference. This is why we have this problem. If someone sends out a DVD the intent of which is to scare people, then you can say there is cause and effect.

Just like I can say cause and effect when that guy went into the church and started shooting people, because it was a 'liberal' church. If the hate mongers on the right didn't talk about gutting 'liberals', or shooting them as 'traitors', or any of the other hateful things they have said, and continue to say, then we would not have this problem.

If an Islamic mullah gave a rousing speach talking about the evils of the US, and after that the people who heard it decide to attack Americans we would call that terrorism and be able to show cause and effect. This is the same thing, just modernised.

The hate rhetoric needs to stop, or more things like this might happen.

[usmc1]

Originally Posted by JeepNude http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?p=210660#post210660)
This has NOTHING to do with Presidential hopeful John McCain, and has nothing to do with Conservative/Liberal politics.

Blaming this on anyone except the individual(s) that performed the attack is irresponsible.

How would you like it if someone blamed you for every flasher caught on the subway?


Is every flasher out there supporting my run for president? Did I blame McCain in any way? No I did not. I called on the McCain campaugn to denounce one of their supporting groups. Which they haven't. (or at least I haven't heard they have)

Nor am I aware of a single one of the people posting in this forum calling themselves conservative ever posting a condemnation of the man who murdered Unitarians at their church because they were "liberals". Remember, the man had a room of "right wing" hate literature, and went out and gunned down people at their church, because that church was liberal.

Many of them called for prayers, and tears, and hand-wringing on the occasion of the VT shooting, but not a word of lament for those Unitarians gunned down at their church was posted.

McCain won't denounce that group, in fact, he and the blond joke in a brunette wig, are throwing out more hate-based negative ads aimed at Obama. Their latest is that pals around with terrorists.

This is something that has been thoroughly and repeatedly discredited. Anyone who perpetuates it and repeats it as though it were fact is indeed, perpetuating and repeating a proven lie.

They will stir up the hate and fear and when dreadful things arise from it, they will remain as silent as did our resident conservatives.

They have no plans, no ideas, nothing to offer except base emotion and they are losing. America is rejecting the politics of hate and fear.

[Bob S.]

Qikdraw: "f an Islamic mullah gave a rousing speach talking about the evils of the US, and after that the people who heard it decide to attack Americans we would call that terrorism and be able to show cause and effect. This is the same thing, just modernised."

If the people who listened to the speech also agreed with it, then there is no cause and effect because nothing changed their minds. The only way for there to be a direct cause and effect is if the orator actually called upon the violence.

In most instances, a speech or video can be the last straw or a catalyst to violence, but there is no cause-effect relationship b between the two. It would be like saying that if someone reading usmc's anti-Republican messages went out and started attacking Conservatives, would that be a cause and effect relationship? Would his reading the messages be the cause of his violence?

Sorry, things do not work that way. The cause of the violence is in how the person grows up with possibly a few innate personality traits. No speech, video, or message will be a cause of violence unless it specifically calls for violence. With all other forms of speech, the individual makes a conscience decision how he interprets the speech and whether he wants to become violent. Again, it could be a catalyst for someone who is on the edge, but it is not the cause. The cause is because he is filled with hate and wants to become violent.

This hate speech is spouted on both extremes right and left and I agree is needs to stop.

Bob S.

[Naturist Mark]

This has NOTHING to do with Presidential hopeful John McCain, and has nothing to do with Conservative/Liberal politics.

Blaming this on anyone except the individual(s) that performed the attack is irresponsible.

How would you like it if someone blamed you for every flasher caught on the subway?

Do you really think that the fact that the Clarion Fund- a right wing 501 which is legally prohibited from engaging in partisan politics - sent a 3 year old documentary only to newspaper subscribers in swing states one month before the election is just a coincidence?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2008/09/obsession-a-dvd.html

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081004/NEWS07/81004017/1009/NEWS07

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/obsession_dvd_distributors_wer.php

[Edmontonnudist]

Up here in Alberta,we have had an incident that could have seriously injured or killed somebody.Brake lines were cut on Liberal workers car.

He went to stop at a stop sign and the brake pedal went all the way to the floor. Someone had cut his brake lines,according to the mechanic. RCMP are advising that anybody working for the Liberals to check for a puddle of brake fluid before driving thier vehicle.

Luckily,he steered the car up onto the curb to stop. Quick Thinking. He almost hit a transit bus.

[lordshipmayhem]

Up here in Alberta,we have had an incident that could have seriously injured or killed somebody.Brake lines were cut on Liberal workers car.

Is that in Ontario, or in Alberta?

Lots of people in two ridings in Toronto have had their brake linings cut - all of them with Liberal signs on their front lawns. Some also had their houses sprayed with anti-McGuinty-Liberal graffiti.

Problem is: this a Federal election, and McGuinty is the Premier of the Province of Ontario, a far different level of government that isn't due for an election for another couple of years or so. It's as if someone were attacking the State governor by targeting the same party's Federal supporters.

[Qikdraw]

This is why we have a problem...

Man in Palin crowd yells to kill Obama (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html)

Man in McCain crowd calls Obama a 'terrorist' (http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/mccain-does-nothing-as-crowd-member.html)

Neither McCain nor Palin stop their stump speech to stop this vile talk.

[brazhunter]

This is why we have a problem...
But that never happens at Obama rallies. :rolleyes:

[Qikdraw]

But that never happens at Obama rallies. :rolleyes:

Name it, cite it, link it. Or it didn't happen and you're just making stuff up.

[brazhunter]

Name it, cite it, link it. Or it didn't happen and you're just making stuff up.

I guess you have to read more than the Daily Kos and USMC1's dem talking points 'o the day.

[Qikdraw]

I guess you have to read more than the Daily Kos and USMC1's dem talking points 'o the day.

Name it, cite it, link it. Or it didn't happen and you're just making stuff up.

[usmc1]

But that never happens at Obama rallies. :rolleyes:
Certainly not aware of it happening, do you have any evidence that it has? Even if it were to have happened, it would not mitigate the egregious wrongness of the examples which were posted.

So, you got any evidence, or are you just jacking your jibs for effect again?

But, to the point. Hate speech and personal attack escalate into action. And, regrettably when that happened at the Tennessee church not a person here who identify themselves as conservatives spoke up.

I find that despicable and detestable and contributes to the scorn I hold for most of those calling themselves conservatives that post in these open forums.

And the wonderful thing is that this election cycle. I'm finding more-and-more people repudiating the messages of hate from the political right and religious fundamentalists.

[Qikdraw]

But, to the point. Hate speech and personal attack escalate into action. And, regrettably when that happened at the Tennessee church not a person here who identify themselves as conservatives spoke up.

Unleashed, Palin Makes a Pit Bull Look Tame (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html)

Worse, Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness. In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

Palin is doing nothing but stirring up the mob.

Luckily this only stirs up the far right wingers who are already going to vote for McCain, its turning off independants and any democrats who might have thought McCain would be better.

Sadly this might spill over into violence.