Early voting

[Fitz1980]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161202/page/2

In an article called "Farewell, Election Day" George Will claims that early voting, which many states are allowing, will lead to an increase in the quantity and decrease in the quality of voters.

Seems to be a pretty elitist mindset of thinking. The problem with election day being on a Tuesday is that for many working people have a hard time getting to work and the polls, epically if they live far from where they work.

One friend of mine used to work at MBNA (the credit card company) said that they could take 4 hours off with pay on election day (that's a half day.) Another worked in the corporate offices of Campbells Soup and they could do the same; notice that's the corporate office people who could do that, not the workers on the factory floor. I work in a bar and if I'm on a double shift (common for restaurant biz people) I'd have to work going to the polls in between the shifts if not for early voting. I'm sure that Wal-Mart isn't giving 4 hours off to the store employees on election day either.

Will calls them sloth voters, but in many places early voters have to go down to the local election office, rather than the closer polling place in order to vote; how are such people lazy sloths?

Will says that making voting "too easy" will just allow apathetic voters, who don't really understand the issues, to vote. I say it's economics and class that prevents many people from voting on election day. Citizens not understanding the issues is what gave us 8 years of Bush.

[blindmanin99]

What does your topic have to do with Bush? I don't shave mine by the way, just keep it well trimmed. If you are referring to President Bush, then, he is still President and should be addressed or referred as that. I think all this early voting is just a way to scare people into placing their vote early while we're all frightened because of the financial crisis, before they can make a wise decision. The election isn't for another month and I'm sure people don't need that much time to go down and cast their vote. Senator Obama is loving this financial crisis because it is his ticket out of all those promises he made on the campaign trail, to do so much for our country and unfortunately he won't be able to fund those projects and ideas anymore, because of our financial situation. He's, uh, loving it, uh!

[blackrebel]

Blindman? Not hardly. You are full of insight. THESE people will blame ANYTHING on Bush because in their narrow minds, all was well one day before Bush walked into office and all sh*t hit the fan the day he walked in. Any person who has no bias looks at this mindset and rolls there eyes.

As for the quality of voters, this is too simple for THEM to understand. In example, just yesterday, I was approached 2 times by people who wanted me to register EVEN THO I TOLD THEM THAT I HAD MY REGISTRATION AT HOME, AND READY TO MAIL IN AS A PREVOTER. The reason why they wanted me to register is that they make money for each registration that they turn in. And of course, Blindman, you understand while THOSE PEOPLE dont, that groups like ACORN have been CONVICTED of Voter Fraud time and time again for registering late voters to take them to the polls and tell them who to vote for. Almost all of these people were homeless and mentally ill. No person with any common sense can explain this is legitimate, EXCEPT FOR Obamamaniacs and lefties who one want a left-winger in even if you have to go into the trash to win.

These lefties love to talk about the financial crisis, yet REFUSE to talk about Dodd, Frank, Carter and all of the people who pushed the Community Reinvestment Act, almost all were lefties. I AM a loan officer and we cringed at the CRA. BTW, this is the SECOND CRA crisis, but many dont want to or are too young to remember the late 80s. I do. i had stacks of foreclosures and the interest rates for fixed rates were 12-13%, not the 6-7% that are today's rates. Funny how little people know when the media keeps facts and history from the public, huh?



What does your topic have to do with Bush? I don't shave mine by the way, just keep it well trimmed. If you are referring to President Bush, then, he is still President and should be addressed or referred as that. I think all this early voting is just a way to scare people into placing their vote early while we're all frightened because of the financial crisis, before they can make a wise decision. The election isn't for another month and I'm sure people don't need that much time to go down and cast their vote. Senator Obama is loving this financial crisis because it is his ticket out of all those promises he made on the campaign trail, to do so much for our country and unfortunately he won't be able to fund those projects and ideas anymore, because of our financial situation. He's, uh, loving it, uh!

[usmc1]

Wow, now I've finally seen it all, and I've been to several county fairs, fifteen goat-ropings, a Polish wedding, a Louisiana shivaree, and watched aunt Sadie try to wash her old yellow Tom-Cat Maximillian before taking him to a pet show, before I got to see this.

Down below, we have the blind leading the overwrought! Or is it vice versa.

[jon71]

Early voting gives people more opportunity to make it to the polls. Obviously people who have long commutes and/or work really long hours have a harder time getting to vote. Also let's not forget getting kids to and from school and everything else that is indispensible. In the past I'd have liked the idea of a national holiday on election day but I don't think that would work anymore. I work at Wal-mart and we're open for every holiday but Christmas anyway, it wouldn't change anything except for govt. employees. Luckily I work a second shift so I can make it to the polls without difficulty. The only challenge for me is that I want to take my daughter with me as a civics lesson and the window between when she is out of school and when I have to go to work is narrow.

[silver_tree]

Someone has been listening to talk radio and the tripe it spews.

Making loans in less than fashionable areas did not cause this financial crisis. Deregulation did.

There is nothing wrong with voting early. Not everyone's employer will grant them enough time off to go vote. An individual may have to drive a distance to wait in a line. Voting early means that obligation is done. As we get further along in this election cycle more people make their decisions regarding candidates.

George Will and "quality" of voters. I guess he means those who don't have to punch a timeclock to keep their bills paid. With William F. Buckley gone the only intellectual conservatives have who has regular TV exposure is George Will. I will grant that the late Mr. Buckley was a lot more entertaining!

[Qikdraw]

Early voting gives people more opportunity to make it to the polls. Obviously people who have long commutes and/or work really long hours have a harder time getting to vote. Also let's not forget getting kids to and from school and everything else that is indispensible. In the past I'd have liked the idea of a national holiday on election day but I don't think that would work anymore. I work at Wal-mart and we're open for every holiday but Christmas anyway, it wouldn't change anything except for govt. employees. Luckily I work a second shift so I can make it to the polls without difficulty. The only challenge for me is that I want to take my daughter with me as a civics lesson and the window between when she is out of school and when I have to go to work is narrow.

Which is why voting should be over 2 days, and on a weekend. More people voting is better for democracy right?

[NudeAl]

You bet this is an elitist opinion. What difference does it make when you vote as long as you vote what are they afraid of makes you wonder maybe we don't all deserve to vote? I think that is what was meant but not stated. I vote early I did so last week I have done so for 23 years. I just think someone is afraid that the change subverts the funky voting machines that may have swayed the last election.

[lordshipmayhem]

What difference does it make when you vote as long as you vote


Hear, hear!!

I have had relatives fight - and die - for my rights, including my right to vote. It's everyone's right to vote: it's everyone's duty to do so in as informed a manner as possible, intelligently and (hopefully) with as little emotion swaying your vote as possible.

As Gregory Peck put it in a rather poorly worded live Public Service Announcement many years ago, "Today is election day. It is every American's duty to vote. So vote soon, and vote often!" :laugh:

[alfredr]

The saying about Richard J. Daley's Chicago machine was, "Vote early and often." I can't help but think that when I hear about early voting. Not saying that multiple voting can happen, just the irony that now you can vote early.

Personally I want to watch the whole campaign to play out before I vote. But I do vote. The more voters the better for democracy.

[Fitz1980]

I think all this early voting is just a way to scare people into placing their vote early while we're all frightened because of the financial crisis, before they can make a wise decision. The election isn't for another month and I'm sure people don't need that much time to go down and cast their vote. Senator Obama is loving this financial crisis because it is his ticket out of all those promises he made on the campaign trail, to do so much for our country and unfortunately he won't be able to fund those projects and ideas anymore, because of our financial situation.

Who's talking about voting now? Early voting is in like the 4 or 5 days before the election, not tomorrow.

[Boreas]

This is a very bizarre thread for a Canadian to read. We get registered to vote through Elections Canada, which is a Federal government agency. Everyone in the country gets registered the same way. In fact, we get registered when we submit our federal taxes for federal elections, and with the provincial taxes for provincial elections. It totally simplified things when they started doing this. If for some reason you are not on the voter list, you can go to an Elections Canada office to register. Easy peasy.

As for advance polls, what is the issue with that? Ours open today. We can vote today, Saturday and Monday. Those votes will not be counted until the rest are counted on election day, Oct 14. Advance polls make it so that everyone has the opportunity to vote. If you are on vacation or working on the day of the election, then it gives you extra time. I believe we are also supposed to be given time from the employer to vote.

http://www.elections.ca/home.asp

[Fitz1980]

Some states mandate that employers give time off to vote. It's usually about 2 hours that can come at the beginning or the end of a shift. Some states mandate that it must be with pay, others mandate that they grant the time off but not with pay. Some states don't mandate it at all.

[ki4kxq]

Every eligible US citizen should be afforded the right to vote without being harrassed. I also have no problem with early voting if it is done correctly. What I have a problem with is some of these initiatives that make it nearly impossible to make sure someone is truly eligible to vote. Things like same day registration are not good policy.

If you truly care about the issues, and you truly want to be a patriotic citizen and vote, more power to you. However, nobody said that voting should be without some sort of effort. If your employer doesn't pay you to take the day or some hours off. Oh well, it's once every couple of years, 4 for Presidential elections. That's not too much to ask. Polling places should absolutely require photo ID, there is no excuse not to unless you are trying to get non citizens and others who are ineligible to vote. It's ridiculous to say that having ID is too much trouble, if it's too much trouble to prove who you are, it's certainly too much trouble to vote, period.

Of course we'll get the same whiny tripe about the elderly and poor not being able to get ID, and that working folks can't go get ID, without mentioning of course that working folks must have state or federal picture ID to get a job in the first place. Unless of course you are here illegally. Hmmm, I wonder if there is a connection in those two things.

[usmc1]

Who's talking about voting now? Early voting is in like the 4 or 5 days before the election, not tomorrow.
Depends on your locality and/or state. Early voting has begun for some. Also absentee and vote-by-mail has started for some.

[Fitz1980]

Every eligible US citizen should be afforded the right to vote without being harrassed. I also have no problem with early voting if it is done correctly. What I have a problem with is some of these initiatives that make it nearly impossible to make sure someone is truly eligible to vote. Things like same day registration are not good policy.

It's ridiculous to say that having ID is too much trouble, if it's too much trouble to prove who you are, it's certainly too much trouble to vote, period.

Exactly who was talking about same day registration, and ID checks? I know that I certainly wasn't.


If you truly care about the issues, and you truly want to be a patriotic citizen and vote, more power to you. However, nobody said that voting should be without some sort of effort. If your employer doesn't pay you to take the day or some hours off.

Once again that works fine in an office environment where if you don't show up, or take a personal day your work just doesn't get done that day and you make it up tomorrow, but in a service business it doesn't work like that. If I normally work a double at the bar on Tuesday I can't get to the polling place that day. Sure I could request a day off but if everyone requests off that day because they want to vote some people won't get it off because they need people working in the restaurant that day. What is the problem with me going to the election office the day before and casting my vote that day? That certainly seems like effort on my part. It's not like anyone is asking to to vote online or by phone.

[Naturist Mark]

<strong>Voters Disappearing from Rolls in Secret Purges Underway In At Least 19 States</strong><blockquote><br>At least <a href="http://www.uspirg.org/newsroom/voting/voting-news/washington-d.c.-nineteen-states-not-enforcing-federal-laws-on-voter-lists">19 states are disregarding a federal law</a> banning systematic voter purges within 90 days of a federal election. According to the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, massive purges of registered voters have occurred recently in Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Texas and Washington. </p><p>In a <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6453">rare display of interest in this issue by the mainstream media</a>, the CBS Evening News recently ran a <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490682.shtml%20">two-minute segment</a> about the illegal voter purges and also noted some of the findings from a new study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice. <a href="http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voter_purges">The Brennan Center study</a> documents several secret purges conducted this year, including 10,000 voters knocked off the rolls in Mississippi and another 21,000 purged in Louisiana, including areas hit hard by recent hurricanes. The purges happen in secret with no public accountability, and voters are not informed of their removal from the rolls, often finding out when they show up at the polls and are denied an official ballot. CBS interviewed an elderly New Jersey voter whose name was suddenly removed from the registration rolls after 30 years. While that voter's status was reinstated successfully, CBS notes that "come Election Day, don't count on thousands of others being as fortunate." </p><p>Voters can check their registration status and confirm their polling place <a href="http://www.votersunite.org/info/RegInfo.asp">here</a> and <a href="http://www.canivote.org/">here</a>. </p>RFK Jr (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-brendan-demelle/unearthed-the-news-withou_b_131683.html)</blockquote>

[Qikdraw]

<strong>Voters Disappearing from Rolls in Secret Purges Underway In At Least 19 States</strong><blockquote><br>At least <a href="http://www.uspirg.org/newsroom/voting/voting-news/washington-d.c.-nineteen-states-not-enforcing-federal-laws-on-voter-lists">19 states are disregarding a federal law</a> banning systematic voter purges within 90 days of a federal election. According to the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, massive purges of registered voters have occurred recently in Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Texas and Washington. </p><p>In a <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6453">rare display of interest in this issue by the mainstream media</a>, the CBS Evening News recently ran a <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490682.shtml%20">two-minute segment</a> about the illegal voter purges and also noted some of the findings from a new study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice. <a href="http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voter_purges">The Brennan Center study</a> documents several secret purges conducted this year, including 10,000 voters knocked off the rolls in Mississippi and another 21,000 purged in Louisiana, including areas hit hard by recent hurricanes. The purges happen in secret with no public accountability, and voters are not informed of their removal from the rolls, often finding out when they show up at the polls and are denied an official ballot. CBS interviewed an elderly New Jersey voter whose name was suddenly removed from the registration rolls after 30 years. While that voter's status was reinstated successfully, CBS notes that "come Election Day, don't count on thousands of others being as fortunate." </p><p>Voters can check their registration status and confirm their polling place <a href="http://www.votersunite.org/info/RegInfo.asp">here</a> and <a href="http://www.canivote.org/">here</a>. </p>RFK Jr (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-brendan-demelle/unearthed-the-news-withou_b_131683.html)</blockquote>

Oddly enough its only one party doing this and usually in strongly held democratic neighbourhoods. Odd that isn't it?

Why is one party subverting democracy?

[jon71]

Why is one party subverting democracy?[/QUOTE]

I guess at heart Republican's just aren't crazy about democracy. I see the usual attempt to blame a Republican flaw, failure, or crime on Democrats (like trying to blame their deregulation of Fannie and Freddy on Dems. and blame Dem.s for the first bailed not passing when 66 Dem.s voted no and 133 Rep.s did). Mississippi and Louisiana are heavily Republican states. The entire list of 19 seems to range from very Democratic New. Jersey to very Republican Texas. This is the wrong thing to do and I hope it stops completely. To give the partisan answer Democrats do the best the higher turnout is and Republicans do better with less turnout. Let me explain in numbers. Typical turnout in a presidential year is 55% (approx). Let's look at a completely bellweather district, one that's always decided by a razor thin margin. If I find out turnout is at or above 60% I know the Democrat won without even asking. If turnout is at or below 50% it was a Republican victory. The same tends to be true on ballot issues. Purging voters help Rep.s and hurts Dem.s and it's wrong regardless.

[Boreas]

Voters Disappearing from Rolls in Secret Purges Underway In At Least 19 States

And this from the country that prides itself on being a beacon of democracy?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:


Very puzzling. :surprised:

[ki4kxq]

<strong>Voters Disappearing from Rolls in Secret Purges Underway In At Least 19 States</strong><blockquote><br>At least <a href="http://www.uspirg.org/newsroom/voting/voting-news/washington-d.c.-nineteen-states-not-enforcing-federal-laws-on-voter-lists">19 states are disregarding a federal law</a> banning systematic voter purges within 90 days of a federal election. According to the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, massive purges of registered voters have occurred recently in Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Texas and Washington. </p><p>In a <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6453">rare display of interest in this issue by the mainstream media</a>, the CBS Evening News recently ran a <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/30/eveningnews/main4490682.shtml%20">two-minute segment</a> about the illegal voter purges and also noted some of the findings from a new study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice. <a href="http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voter_purges">The Brennan Center study</a> documents several secret purges conducted this year, including 10,000 voters knocked off the rolls in Mississippi and another 21,000 purged in Louisiana, including areas hit hard by recent hurricanes. The purges happen in secret with no public accountability, and voters are not informed of their removal from the rolls, often finding out when they show up at the polls and are denied an official ballot. CBS interviewed an elderly New Jersey voter whose name was suddenly removed from the registration rolls after 30 years. While that voter's status was reinstated successfully, CBS notes that "come Election Day, don't count on thousands of others being as fortunate." </p><p>Voters can check their registration status and confirm their polling place <a href="http://www.votersunite.org/info/RegInfo.asp">here</a> and <a href="http://www.canivote.org/">here</a>. </p>RFK Jr (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-brendan-demelle/unearthed-the-news-withou_b_131683.html)</blockquote>

Mark, help me out here. It has seemed to me that you think it's the republicans that are trying to wipe democratic voters off the rolls. However, in the article you just mentioned, most of the states accused of doing secret purging of the voter registration lists are run by democratic administrations. That means, they more than likely have a democrat running the Secretary of State office. So, are you trying to tell us that dems are doing as much or more voter tampering as you claim republicans are doing? Just wondering.

[Fitz1980]

Mark, help me out here. It has seemed to me that you think it's the republicans that are trying to wipe democratic voters off the rolls. However, in the article you just mentioned, most of the states accused of doing secret purging of the voter registration lists are run by democratic administrations. That means, they more than likely have a democrat running the Secretary of State office. So, are you trying to tell us that dems are doing as much or more voter tampering as you claim republicans are doing? Just wondering.

What states are you talking about? I see mention of Florida, Georgia & Louisiana which all have Republican governors.

[Naturist Mark]

Mark, help me out here. It has seemed to me that you think it's the republicans that are trying to wipe democratic voters off the rolls. However, in the article you just mentioned, most of the states accused of doing secret purging of the voter registration lists are run by democratic administrations. That means, they more than likely have a democrat running the Secretary of State office. So, are you trying to tell us that dems are doing as much or more voter tampering as you claim republicans are doing? Just wondering.

Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner has issued orders banning the purges of voter rolls over the last two months, yet it continues to happen. Ohio has a 18 year legacy of Republican domination of the so-called "bipartisan" elections commission in each county. Brunner was able to clean house in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland and suburbs) due to gross incompetence and clear criminal activity, but much of the rest of the State electoral system is still being run on the local level by the old regime that kept the Republican minority in power. State control over county election commissions varies across the country.

-Mark

[Qikdraw]

And this from the country that prides itself on being a beacon of democracy?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:


Very puzzling. :surprised:

It is isn't it?

[usmc1]

Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner has issued orders banning the purges of voter rolls over the last two months, yet it continues to happen. Ohio has a 18 year legacy of Republican domination of the so-called "bipartisan" elections commission in each county. Brunner was able to clean house in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland and suburbs) due to gross incompetence and clear criminal activity, but much of the rest of the State electoral system is still being run on the local level by the old regime that kept the Republican minority in power. State control over county election commissions varies across the country.

-Mark

The chief elections official of the great state of Texas is appointed by the governor (currently Republican) and confirmed by the senate (currently Republican majority). And, we will have many Hispanics in the Valley and South Texas who will encounter problems, as will African American voters in East Texas, Houston and Dallas.

We have had massive new-voter registration numbers in Texas and expect to swing a number of counties into the blue, come November despite the usual Republican chicanery.

Noriega's gap with Cornyn, is a point or two away from margin of error and if we can get young, first-time Obama supporters excited about the bottom of the ticket, we could be sending a Democrat to the Senate. At the very least we will protect existing house seats, maybe pick up two or three more and may swing the state legislature back to blue, allowing us to undo the redistricting harm perpetrated by DeLay.

There will be some interesting confrontations at the polls, hence our drive to get as many early and by-mail ballots as is possible completed prior to election day. Those votes are accountable.

[Boreas]

It is isn't it?

Very! shocked

[Qikdraw]

<object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/f7d_1222962429"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/f7d_1222962429" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>

[Qikdraw]

Fake pollsters' scare tactics target Obama (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/03/uselections2008.barackobama1)

Barack Obama's campaign for the White House is receiving increasing complaints about scam pollsters involved in dirty tricks operations to discredit the Democratic candidate.

Victims claim the fake pollsters work insinuations into their questions, designed to damage Obama. Those targeted in swing states such as Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania include Jews, Christian evangelicals, Catholics and Latinos.

One of those to protest, Debbie Minden, who lives in a predominantly Jewish neighbourhood, Squirrel Hill, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, told the Guardian that the pollster had begun by asking her the usual questions about her background and who she would vote for.

But the pollster went on to ask Minden, who is Jewish, how she would vote if she knew that Obama was supported by Hamas, the Palestinian militant group that runs Gaza and was responsible for most of the suicide bombings against Israel. "It is scare tactics. It is terribly underhand," she said.

Push-polling, a vile tactic.

[blindmanin99]

Well, I figured I'd spark up some good conversation here. Since my previous post, I heard something on the news about ACORN being charged with fraud, regarding voting practices. Correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't get all the details of the story, but I'm sure someone here will fill me in. I guess it's clear that I support Sen. McCain for president. I don't think he's the best choice. I don't even think the best choice is running for president. It sure isn't Sen. Obama. His associations with Rev. Wright, William Ayers, Louis Farakhan (spelling?), and Fr. Pfleger are enough to keep me away from him. Not to mention his attitudes towards our troops (major point). I can't trust a guy who was friends with these people and then denounce them or his relations with them, now that he's running for president. Who else is out there that we don't know about? Who can we trust him to appoint as his cabinet members and advisors? Plus, as Commander in Chief (or wannabe), you never say anything bad or negative about your troops, never! These are all volunteers, for one reason or another, they all volunteered to fight and defend their country. No one signed a contract that said "well, it depends on what we have to do". I think there is still something out there that we don't about Sen. Obama yet, and that's why they want to get people to vote early, before it's discovered. That's just my thoughts, thoughts. Don't ask me to support it with any facts, because I don't have any. I don't have a crystal ball either, but the "uhs" and stuttering make me a little nervous about his intentions. I predicted long ago about Britney Spears fall and rise back to fame and glory. Laugh, that was just a joke.

.)

[Fitz1980]

Obama was NEVER friends with Louis Farakhan nor did he ever court his support.

[jon71]

Unlike McCain and his courting of Hagee for example, lol.

[Qikdraw]

Well, I figured I'd spark up some good conversation here.

Uh oh! :D

Since my previous post, I heard something on the news about ACORN being charged with fraud, regarding voting practices. Correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't get all the details of the story, but I'm sure someone here will fill me in.

From an article I read yesterday, and I'm going from memory here so I may be wrong on some details, an ACORN office in Nevada was raided, and the claim is voter registration fraud. The article I read talked to acorn members who said they do not understand why this happened. Yes they had some voter registrars commit fraud, but they were fired and that information sent to the state. In total apparently around 15 former workers information were sent to the state. According to acorn the state never followed up on any of it, nor did they after acorn repeatedly asked them about it. They had the documentation to prove these former workers committed fraud and the state was sitting on its butt. Then out of the blue a raid comes along. How much of that is true, I don't know, however we do live in a country that claims its innocent until proven guilty.


I guess it's clear that I support Sen. McCain for president. I don't think he's the best choice. I don't even think the best choice is running for president. It sure isn't Sen. Obama. His associations with Rev. Wright, William Ayers, Louis Farakhan (spelling?), and Fr. Pfleger are enough to keep me away from him. Not to mention his attitudes towards our troops (major point).

Don't McCain's associations bother you? Keating, Hagee, a group associated with the Contras, lobbyists who have been responsible for our current mess and are still lobbying McCain on behave of their companies and clients.

Take a look at this for more of McCain's associations that are troublesome.

<iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27092691#27092691" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

Also McCain rated a 'D' from the IAVA veterans group for his voting habits. McCain has continually voted against vets. His walk does not match his talk. He was against the latest GI bill, that had broad support from both parties. McCain was the ONLY senator to not vote on it at all.

I can't trust a guy who was friends with these people and then denounce them or his relations with them, now that he's running for president. Who else is out there that we don't know about? Who can we trust him to appoint as his cabinet members and advisors?

I can't trust a guy who doesn't back away from bad statements people make. Who else will be running American besides McCain? So far his lobbyists advisors have been creating McCain's platform, that worries me. After 25 plus years in office he's been calling himself a 'deregulator', as recently as march of this year, now he claims he is going to regulate. I just do not buy that.

Plus, as Commander in Chief (or wannabe), you never say anything bad or negative about your troops, never! These are all volunteers, for one reason or another, they all volunteered to fight and defend their country. No one signed a contract that said "well, it depends on what we have to do".

You'll have to provide an example, even if its from your own memory, on what you think he said. While Obama has attacked policy, I do not think he has ever attacked the troops.

I think there is still something out there that we don't about Sen. Obama yet, and that's why they want to get people to vote early, before it's discovered. That's just my thoughts, thoughts. Don't ask me to support it with any facts, because I don't have any. I don't have a crystal ball either, but the "uhs" and stuttering make me a little nervous about his intentions. I predicted long ago about Britney Spears fall and rise back to fame and glory. Laugh, that was just a joke..)

Obama's 'uhs' bother me too, but I think that is him trying to form an answer. We all have done it, but none of us are on the stage to be president, I believe it is just him trying to be as articulate in his answers as possible.

The early voting is a good thing. I think voting should be held over a couple of days to give everybody a chance to vote. I don't like this voting that only lasts for a few hours and makes it so not everybody gets a chance to vote. One of the continueing problems is not enough voting machines in some places, this means lines are formed up and some people have to leave to go to work. Early voting allows more people to vote. I don't think this is a bad thing at all.

One other thing about McCain that really bothers me is his insistance that 'he knows how to catch Bin Laden', he's been saying this for months. If he is really all about 'country first' why hasn't he told this to the Bush administration so we can get him? How many American lives have been lost because McCain has held onto this information?

[usmc1]

Well, I figured I'd spark up some good conversation here. Since my previous post, I heard something on the news about ACORN being charged with fraud, regarding voting practices. Correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't get all the details of the story, but I'm sure someone here will fill me in.

Acorn is not a monolith, it has chapters all over the cpuntry. As I understand it, one chapter in CO is suspected of fraudulent voter registration activities. We'll see.

I guess it's clear that I support Sen. McCain for president. I don't think he's the best choice. I don't even think the best choice is running for president. It sure isn't Sen. Obama. His associations with Rev. Wright, William Ayers, Louis Farakhan (spelling?), and Fr. Pfleger are enough to keep me away from him.That's fine your choice, many things influence different people different ways. It is unfortunate that you allow yourself to be influenced by innuendo, lies and misrepresentations. But, for the nonce...you speak of Obama's relationships with these people...precisely what are those relationships?

Not to mention his attitudes towards our troops (major point). I can't trust a guy who was friends with these people and then denounce them or his relations with them, now that he's running for president. Who else is out there that we don't know about? Who can we trust him to appoint as his cabinet members and advisors? Plus, as Commander in Chief (or wannabe), you never say anything bad or negative about your troops, never! These are all volunteers, for one reason or another, they all volunteered to fight and defend their country. No one signed a contract that said "well, it depends on what we have to do".And his attitude about our troops is "what"? The facts are very,very simple. Often in combat lines are crossed, rules are broken, and innocent people are harmed. When our great nation bombs or attacks with drones innocent civilians, and lies about it and attempts cover ups it is not attacking the troops to decry and deplore such. Had we a real commander in chief in the present, we would not be facing this!

Obama's truth about Afghanistan is one of the shining scintillating beckons of honesty in this campaign. You should acquaint yourself with the facts, before mouthing rehased MCain negatives.


I think there is still something out there that we don't about Sen. Obama yet, and that's why they want to get people to vote early, before it's discovered. That's just my thoughts, thoughts. Don't ask me to support it with any facts, because I don't have any. I don't have a crystal ball either, but the "uhs" and stuttering make me a little nervous about his intentions. I predicted long ago about Britney Spears fall and rise back to fame and glory. Laugh, that was just a joke.

Sorry charley, it is not a joking matter. But, you want to play the Manchurian Candidate game, lets. I can get down with that straight away,

Did you know McCain's fellow POWs called him "songbird" hhhhmmmm?, who gets called "songbird" in prison? Did you know his former warden speaks highly of him...a dirty stinking, viet cong, commie toturer that may have been brainwashing him for this very moment. What do we know of his secret deals with those commies. I bet the Chi-coms were in on it, I mean he was a high-profile POW. What a future asset. I think John McCain has a lot of secrets, and things to answer for, that we don't know. After all, when Obama was a little boy of 8, and Ayers was being a bad person, John McCain was an adult and in the clutches of those wiley commie brainwashers preparing him to front for the worldwide depression and chi-com takeover of the world.

That brainwashing stuff could account for his weird disjointed behavior and really nasty temper tantrums and outbursts of rage.

Booo!

[Naturist Mark]

The accusations against ACORN are ridiculous in the extreme, and are nothing less than the Big Lie technique used to obfuscate voter disenfranchisement.

Just think this through people. How exactly is ACORN supposed to be committing fraud? By turning in bogus voter registrations?

Huh?

How is that supposed to help a candidate? Think it through.

How many 'fake voters' are going to risk prison by showing up in more than one precinct to cast an extra vote?

How many felons (in the very few places they are not allowed to vote) will risk going back to prison just to vote?

How many are going to claim to be "mickey mouse" or "Clark Kent" in order to cast one more vote? Absurd. The risk is too high and the gain is too minuscule for it to be worthwhile. Sorry, election fraud is committed on a much grander scale than by having actual individuals show up to make individual ineligible votes.

No, what is happening with ACORN is that some people fill out bogus voter registrations not in order to vote illegally, but in order to "f" with ACORN, or employees will turn in bogus registrations in order to make it look that they are performing. In both cases the fraud is being committed against ACORN, and is not going to result in illegal votes.

In the cases being shouted about in the media - Rush Limbaugh features an ACORN story every single day - the vast majority of the questionable registration requests were flagged as suspect by ACORN itself. ACORN goes to extreme lengths to verify and double check the registrations it gathers - after all bogus registrations are FRAUD AGAINST ACORN - and fully informs the elections boards of its findings.

So just remember, they are counting on you being an idiot without critical reasoning skills - every time you hear a story about the evil ACORN trying to steal the election by mobilizing thousands and millions of phantom voters - you are being told a illogical fairy tale designed to distract you from the real election theft being orchestrated in plain sight. (Hint ... purging voter registration is a federal crime during the 90 days before an election, yet it is happening right now in Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Texas, Washington and probably elsewhere too.)

The Myth Of Voter Fraud (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/28/AR2007032801969.html)

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[NudeAl]

Thanks for posting that Mark.

I had been hearing about that and I was worried but now I just wish the main stream media would dig into it and let the truth be known. I had also heard something about disappearing voters. In other words that they have people going about and dis-enrolling voters basically they find a reason to say nope that guy is a phony he can't vote, due to something like a homeowner whose house was foreclosed on and is no longer living at that address. Only thing is none of these disenfranchised voters knows a thing about this until they go to vote. Then if the guy is really persistant and remember how crowded it can be at polling places he can file to vote but the same person who challenged his original vote will likely do the same thing once the voter leaves the polling station.

[Naturist Mark]

Whenever the media gives credence to the attacks against ACORN for alleged registration fraud, they are counting on us to be unthinking dolts. There is no way for ACORN to benefit from fraudulent registrations, those incidents are fraud against ACORN. Now government officials are getting into the act, even though it is totally unsupportable and won't survive its first contact with a judge. The following press release is from ACORN in Clark County,Nevada, following a staged 'raid' on their headquarters by the NV Secretary of State's office:
<blockquote>ACORN Statement: Nevada Secretary of State 'Stunt' Serves No Useful Purpose

Last update: 8:56 p.m. EDT Oct. 7, 2008
WASHINGTON, Oct 07, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- On Oct. 7, ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) interim Chief Organizer Bertha Lewis issued the following statement in response to the raid of ACORN's office in Las Vegas:

"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have reviewed all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.

For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.

Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.

On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.

Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."
ACORN is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, with over 400,000 member families across the country. Since 1970, *ACORN* has taken action and won victories on such issues as better housing, living wages for low-wage workers, more investment in our communities, and better public schools.
SOURCE Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN)

Copyright (C) 2008 PR Newswire. All rights reserved End of Story</blockquote>

Now here is the bizarre part - Nevada Secretary of State Ross Miller is a Democrat. No party has a monopoly on idiots.

-Mark

[Naturist Mark]

Remember - they are counting on you to be too stupid to understand that the charges of "fraud" against ACORN are nonsensical. Here's the latest from BradBlog:

<div class="BloggedBy">Blogged by <strong><a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?author=3" title="Posts by Brad Friedman">Brad Friedman</a></strong> on 10/9/2008 9:45AM&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div class="ItemHeadline"><a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6488">GOP's ACORN 'Voter Fraud' Scam Rolls Out in MO...Right on Schedule...</a></div><div id="post-6488"><p><img src="http://www.BradBlog.com/Images/ACORN_NevadaRaid_100708_Missouri.jpg" align="right" border="0" vspace="3" hspace="6">Remember yesterday when <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6487">we told you about</a> the transcript of the <i>Fox &amp; Friends</i> show yesterday morning, discussing the <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6480">bogus raid of an ACORN office</a> in Las Vegas, and then implying "more" ACORN "voter fraud" occurring in Missouri? The RNC actually issued that transcript <i>verbatim</i> as <a href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/republican-national-committee-acorn-/story.aspx?guid=%7B1424B9DD-1977-493F-B9CD-4EC2356B9119%7D&amp;dist=hppr">an official RNC press release</a>. Remember when we told you that, given the hints within the RNC/FNC report that swing state MO was likely next on the RNC/FNC/FBI hit-list?</p><p>Well, late last night, <a href="http://apnews.excite.com/article/20081009/D93MKOS80.html">AP delivered right on schedule</a>, open their story with "Officials in Missouri...are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states."</p><p>The report quotes GOP tool &amp; Jackson County (Kansas City), MO election director, Charlene Davis complaining they are "bogged down" with registrations right now, and insinuating that it's ACORN causing the problem for them. </p><p>Of course, as with the pageant staged in Las Vegas, the Missouri action is also a scam. Read a little closer into the AP article, and you'll see the tell-tale signs of this October "Surprise" joke rather clearly...</p><p>"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."<br>...<br>Jess Ordower, Midwest director of ACORN, said his group hasn't done any registrations in Kansas City since late August. He said he was told three weeks ago by election officials that there were only about 135 questionable cards - 85 of them duplicates.<p>"They keep telling different people different things," he said. "They gave us a list of 130, then told someone else it was 1,000."</p><p>FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said the agency has been in contact with elections officials about potential voter fraud and plans to investigate.</p></div><p>So Davis --- who just happened to have played a key role in the recent arrest of a Missouri election integrity advocate for <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6252">committing the crime of trying to legally cast his vote</a> --- doesn't "even know the scope of it", but is happy to suggest ACORN has done something amiss. That, even as ACORN <i>hasn't done any registrations in Kansas City since August.</i> (Not to mention the fact that, as we've pointed out now several days in a row, ACORN verifies every single registration form, and when they can't, they flag them as potentially fraudulent before turning them into officials, <i>as they are required by law!</i>)</p><p>And now, the FBI will be investigating. Raid should be coming soon, no doubt. Nope, not a scam at all.</p><p>ACORN's Midwest director Ordower is not surprised by this wholly stated October "Surprise", and neither are we. We've been <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/ACVR">reporting on its rollout</a> for about 4 years. It was only a matter of time before it showed up again in our old home state of MO --- not coincidentally, the home state of the GOP's "voter fraud" cappo, <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/ACVR">Thor Hearne</a>.</p><div class="media">"It's par for the course," [Ordower] said. "When you're doing more registrations than anyone else in the country, some don't want low-income people being empowered to vote. There are pretty targeted attacks on us, but we're proud to be out there doing the patriotic thing getting people registered to vote."<p>Republicans are among ACORN's loudest critics. At a campaign stop in Bethlehem, Pa., supporters of John McCain interrupted his remarks Wednesday by shouting, "No more ACORN."</p></div><p>We're sure McCain had no objections to the 'spontaneous outbursts' of his 'supporters'.</p><p>We're also sure that McCain didn't bother to straighten them out, because why start fighting for democracy now? He already spent five years in a prison trying to defend it, so his work must be done.</p><p>The GOP is in absolute --- and shameless --- ruin.</p><blockquote><p><i>Previously...</i><br><b>10/7/08:</b> <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6480">GOP's ACORN 'Voter Fraud' Lie Ramped Up; State Police Raid ACORN Office in Vegas</a><br><b>10/8/08:</b> <a href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6487">RNC Issues Fox 'News' Transcript on ACORN 'Voter Fraud' as Press Release</a></p></blockquote><a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[usmc1]

<!----> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
Dear USMC1,

This could be a great election for American Democracy, with greater participation than we've seen perhaps ever. But we need to make sure that eligible voters who want to cast a ballot can do so. <o:p></o:p>
Already, the Right has begun targeting states in which they will challenge the eligibility of voters who show up to the polls. Burdensome voter ID laws threaten to keep some voters from casting a regular ballot, and confusion caused by poorly trained state and county election staff has potentially led to tens of thousands of voters being wrongly purged from voter rolls and could result in more problems on Election Day.

Don't forget the last-minute attempts at voter intimidation and disinformation that we are almost sure to see as Election Day looms closer. The Right has already given us a sneak peak of how low they're willing to with reports last month that they would challenge the eligibility of Michigan voters who had their homes foreclosed on due to the housing crisis -- [I]eligible voters who have been among the hardest hit by the struggling economy.

As part of our Election Protection efforts, People For the American Way Foundation wants to offer you a few ways you can help protect voters' rights and make the election run more smoothly.

1. VOTE EARLY if you can, and encourage your friends and family to do the same.<o:p></o:p>
Early voting has already started in many states. USA Today reported that up to a third of the electorate this year could cast their ballot before November 4. If you have the opportunity to vote early in your state, either in person or via mail (or a "no excuse" absentee ballot), People For the American Way Foundation urges you to take it. You can find out about early and absentee voting in your state at Vote411.org (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=xAv7DQ8COuugCIopnB9LqA..) sponsored by the League of Women Voters Education Fund.

<o:p></o:p>
2. Help distribute voter education materials. <o:p></o:p>
Palm cards: We're thrilled to announce that we've partnered with the SEIU to produce educational voter ID palm cards that inform voters of what they need when they show up to cast their ballots. They are state specific and are available for the following states (based on where there are bad voter ID laws and where we expect to see aggressive voter suppression efforts): AZ, CA, CO, DC, FL, GA, IN, KS, MI, MO, NC, OH, PA, TX and VA. If you live in one of these states, you can place an order here (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=wnZMS7abGR5f946IqGnFxg..) for palm cards to distribute to voters. (Remember, certain communities are particularly impacted by voter ID laws and voter suppression efforts, among them, the poor, minority voters, the elderly and students.)

Toolkits and flyers: Also available are voter ID toolkits and two-page flyers for the same states as we have palm cards for. People For the American Way Foundation has created these in collaboration with the NEA, SEIU and other state and local partners. We've been getting them to election officials and allies as a resource in training poll workers and people doing voter protection work. These materials are available for you to download and print here (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=qxErJULhz6SQv-DcVFpzAg..).

<o:p></o:p>
3. Contribute. (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=aDA0Jxu_Ql5hRyQop1ZCUg..) There's only 26 days until Election Day and we need your help to make sure that every eligible voter is able to cast a vote that counts. That's 26 days for us to educate as many voters as we can. Please make a tax-deductible gift today (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=Es3fq7uYS206IKuyRxrPDA..) to People For the American Way Foundation's nonpartisan Election Protection efforts, including the widespread distribution of the materials mentioned above.

Thank you for your ongoing support for fair elections and our work to protect the vote.

-- People For the American Way Foundation


People For the American Way Foundation is a founding member of the Election Protection Coalition, a coalition which includes civil rights groups such as the NAACP, the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law and many other national, state and local organizations. <o:p></o:p>

[Naturist Mark]

<img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/skrat-19385.jpg" align="left" border="0" vspace="3" hspace="6">Remember folks - they are counting on you being too stupid to understand! Everytime the GOP and its mass media lackeys run their fear mongering illogical stories about ACORN committing registration fraud they are depending on you to be too moronic to understand that invalid registrations are fraud against ACORN, not the opposite. The real aim is to discourage new voters and justify massive purges of valid voter registrations.

Why the GOP Is Nuts About ACORN (http://www.alternet.org/democracy/102557/why_the_gop_is_nuts_about_acorn/)

Illegal Voter Purges Could Cause Florida-like Presidential Recounts (http://www.alternet.org/democracy/102374/voter_purges_could_cause_florida-like_presidential_recounts/?page=entire)

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[Naturist Mark]

Tom Matzzie: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-matzzie/how-mccain-will-steal-the_b_133989.html)<blockquote>The conservative movement is lining up a serious of story elements. They are:

• Obama was a community organizer.
• ACORN, a group that does community organizing, has committed voter fraud.
• Obama is from Chicago.
• You know what happens in elections in Chicago. Remember the 1960 election.

The story is half true and half lies. As we all know, Barack Obama is from Chicago and was a community organizer. Those are the only true parts of the conservative story. But the other two facts are myths: the 1960 election wasn't stolen (says the conclusion of recounts and investigations in 1960 and numerous academic studies since). And, ACORN has not committed voter fraud. Not one bit.

The facts about ACORN are worth getting out. ACORN is an organization that, among other things, registers low-income people to vote. One of the ways they do this is to hire door-to-door canvassers from the neighborhoods they are working in. This sort of work is tightly regulated. So, when one of the thousands of people they give jobs to doesn't do their work right and brings back bogus or phony voter registration cards, the law REQUIRES that ACORN turn the forms in to the voter registration office. The law, rightly, doesn't want anybody throwing out voter registration forms for any reason.

But ACORN goes a step farther. They have people assigned to do quality control on all the cards--calling people on the forms after they fill them out. When they find bad information on the cards they attach a cover sheet to the card but, as mentioned above, they turn in the cards as required by law. The effect is that a few bad canvassers or a poorly run office will mean that bad cards are submitted as part of the normal process. But ACORN has done everything possible to make sure voting officials know to check the forms.

The sad fact is that in at least one state--Nevada--the voting officials disregarded ACORN's cover sheets flagging the voter registration forms. That should have never happened. The resulting blowup was a scandal in search of a scandal.

The stunning con of this whole thing is the assumption that bad voter registration cards being submitted will lead to vote fraud. If somebody submits a card for Mickey Mouse it isn't like Mr. Mouse is going to show up to vote. There is no voter fraud if nobody votes.

But the big story here is what the Right is doing. Their attacks on ACORN open up the door for two things.

First, the ACORN myth allows the Republicans to do more purging of the voter rolls--the process of removing people from the voter rolls because of arbitrary anomalies in the voter registration databases. Richard L Hasen, author of the Election Law Blog and a distinguished law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles recently wrote, "Careless purging--driven by unsubstantiated fears about voter fraud--can lead to many eligible voters being incorrectly removed from the polls." Already in Ohio the Republican Party is pushing for more purging and they found a federal judge who agreed citing ACORN's activities.

Second, in the event that campaigning, purging and intimidating voters doesn't work, the Right is creating a myth like they did in 1960. They are creating the myth of a stolen election. Conservatives plan to claim that ACORN and Barack Obama stole the election. Their hope is to steal the legitimacy of what is looking like a massive repudiation of Bush, conservatives and the Republican Party. The Right plans to steal the election by trying to steal the legitimate defeat of them by progressive forces.</blockquote>
Matzzie makes some good points, but I think he is being too optimistic - I think the Republican establishment is doing its damnedest to steal the election. Sure, if they fail they'll try to delegitimize Obama and the Democrats - just like they did to Clinton.

Right now in Ohio, local elections boards are comparing voter registration information from targeted precincts with public records - such as driver's licenses and social security records - to find discrepancies between those records and the registrations - and purging the registrations if they don't match perfectly. Even though it is illegal to do that with Social Security records (which are available to the States for other purposes) and even though it is illegal to purge voter registrations within 90 days of an election. The Ohio Republican Party even convinced a Federal judge to allow it to continue to illegally purge voter rolls in Ohio citing ACORN as the reason (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-hasen/the-purge-surgewhy-the-go_b_133786.html).<blockquote>Cries of voter fraud allow for harsh purging of voters from the rolls. Because of decentralization of election authority and a lack of administrative competence or will, the rolls are inaccurate in many states. Careless purging--driven by unsubstantiated fears about voter fraud--can lead to many eligible voters being incorrectly removed from the polls. Despite the fact that eligible voters are being removed from the polls, the GOP is pushing for more purging in Ohio, and they found a sympathetic federal judge, citing ACORN's activities, in requiring the Democratic Secretary of State to allow county elections board to purge of many new Ohio voters who do not have an exact match in inaccurate databases.</blockquote>
Public records are faulty, very faulty, citizens often do not have easy access to their own files, nor any way to promptly correct them when they discover an error. Yet the fact of an error in a public record is enough to revoke your right to vote, in effect to cancel your citizenship because a clerk made an error when entering a record. In my own case I have been trying for several years to get my social security file corrected. At some point in the 90s my records were transferred or updated and someone made a typo on my year of birth. Now I have trouble renewing my driver's license, I can't file my tax returns electronically, and I can't get a passport. But there is no doubt about my actual year of birth, my records correctly show my work history, my past benefits (my family received survivor's benefits while I was still a minor after my father passed away), It even has my mother's date of birth - listed as the same year as it incorrectly lists my own. Consequently I check to see that I am still registered to vote on a weekly basis. On my last Driver's license the clerk transposed two numbers in my address. That is corrected in the State database now, but who knows? Through no fault of my own, and despite my own efforts to get my records corrected, I could easily have my right to vote revoked because of an error someone else made.

But if you live in a nice Republican majority precinct, rest easy, no one is purging your records ... unless you have a suspicious sounding name. Or you are serving in the armed forces. Or a bank is foreclosing your mortgage.

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[usuallylurk]

Here in the "people's republic" (Massachusetts) -- Election Day is NOT a holiday BUT state law mandates that you MUST give people time off to vote, if they cannot do so outside of working hours. Example - shift workers who work 7 am to 7 pm.

Also - we do not conduct elections "Florida style". If a voter comes to a precinct, and his name isn't on the rolls -- he is still allowed to fill out a ballot and it is sealed in an envelope and set aside.

Also - the INTENT of the voter is what counts. If you put a sticker on the ballot, or write in a candidate, and forget to throw the lever or tick the box next to his name -- THE VOTE STILL COUNTS.

And there is ALWAYS a paper trail.

As far as early voting - it's wrong. The absentee system is OK, but election day is three weeks away. A lot can happen between now and then to sway a vote, and it isn't just the President you're voting for. The House is up for re-election as well as a third of the Senate (including one of my Senators here). Casting a vote now is not a responsible thing to do, IMHO.

[jon71]

Sounds like they do it right. I favor early voting but everything else you mentioned usuallylurk sounds right on the money.

[usmc1]

As far as early voting - it's wrong. The absentee system is OK, but election day is three weeks away. A lot can happen between now and then to sway a vote, and it isn't just the President you're voting for. The House is up for re-election as well as a third of the Senate (including one of my Senators here). Casting a vote now is not a responsible thing to do, IMHO.
Au contraire..Voting early insures that you get to vote, no long lines, no weather or traffic issues and usually early voting, or absentee voting (vote by mail) insures a paper trail. Plus, now the time you have saved by not standing in a two hour line reaching around the church, through the parking lot and onto the playground you can use poll watching, driving others to the polls, or assisting others the Republicans are trying to block!

1. VOTE EARLY if you can, and encourage your friends and family to do the same.<o></o>
Early voting has already started in many states. USA Today reported that up to a third of the electorate this year could cast their ballot before November 4. If you have the opportunity to vote early in your state, either in person or via mail (or a "no excuse" absentee ballot), People For the American Way Foundation urges you to take it. You can find out about early and absentee voting in your state at Vote411.org (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=xAv7DQ8COuugCIopnB9LqA..) sponsored by the League of Women Voters Education Fund.

<o></o>
2. Help distribute voter education materials. <o></o>
Palm cards: We're thrilled to announce that we've partnered with the SEIU to produce educational voter ID palm cards that inform voters of what they need when they show up to cast their ballots. They are state specific and are available for the following states (based on where there are bad voter ID laws and where we expect to see aggressive voter suppression efforts): AZ, CA, CO, DC, FL, GA, IN, KS, MI, MO, NC, OH, PA, TX and VA. If you live in one of these states, you can place an order here (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=wnZMS7abGR5f946IqGnFxg..) for palm cards to distribute to voters. (Remember, certain communities are particularly impacted by voter ID laws and voter suppression efforts, among them, the poor, minority voters, the elderly and students.)

Toolkits and flyers: Also available are voter ID toolkits and two-page flyers for the same states as we have palm cards for. People For the American Way Foundation has created these in collaboration with the NEA, SEIU and other state and local partners. We've been getting them to election officials and allies as a resource in training poll workers and people doing voter protection work. These materials are available for you to download and print here (http://site.pfaw.org/site/R?i=qxErJULhz6SQv-DcVFpzAg..).

[Naturist Mark]

Voting early gives you time to appeal to the election board if for any reason your registration is missing (purged) or there is some challenge to it. On election day you may be out of time and will just be given a "Provisional Ballot" - the majority of which are tossed without ever being checked out.

Seriously - DO NOT accept a provisional ballot - which are now being called "placebo ballots" by many election advocates. Appeal to your locations election judge on site first, and if they won't give you satisfaction, go to your county election office and straighten it out right then. If you accept a provisional ballot you are not voting.

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[Boreas]

Early voting gives you an opportunity to vote in the event you will be away from home on voting day. Perhaps things are different in the US, where you have a set election date. Our government can call an election, and the election campaign is usually six weeks long. I appreciate the opportunity to vote early.

They are talking about our election tomorrow and the potential results. It sounds like we MIGHT be able to have a new PM. I am not holding my breath.

[ki4kxq]

Why am I not surprised about the total lack of truth as it concerns ACORN in this post. Naturist Mark would have everyone believe that ACORN is being wrongly accused by one state, that all they do is try to get poor folks registered to vote, and Obama has nothing at all to do with ACORN. Yeah, right.

ACORN is under investigation in 12 states. Their tactics have come under fire by not only republican, but democrat election officials. ACORN has completely overwhelmed some systems with so many registrations, mostly fraudulent, that election officials say there is no way to know just how extensive the damage is. One county in Ohio, now has more registered voters than they have citizens. On one voter registration drive in Ohio, folks were not only able to register, but cast their vote at the same time. That's a great way to stuff the ballot box. One ACORN worker, keep in mind ACORN bills itself as non-partisan, was not only helping folks register, she was telling folks to vote for Obama. She was captured on tape several times doing this. Nevada has several Dallas Cowboys on their voter rolls.

In Florida, election workers admit they have approximately 5000 convicted felons that are ineligible to vote on the voter rolls. They cannot even start to purge these folks because of the massive wave of new registrations by ACORN and other groups. The time needed to go through and try to put aside the false registrations is overwhelming. Make no mistake about it, ACORN is committing massive voter fraud. Some ACORN workers have already pled guilty to voter fraud. To make matters worse, ACORN workers are mostly low income or homeless folks paid for the number of registration cards turned in. That system alone invites fraud and ACORN should know that.

ACORN's misdeeds don't just stop at voter fraud, they have a big roll in the current mortgage crisis we are in. For years, ACORN, with the help of Barack Obama, strong armed politicians and lending institutions to make loans to low income folks who could not afford to pay those loans back. Barack Obama trained ACORN staff in these strong arm tactics while he was working as a community organizer in Chicago. The following year, Obama did legal work for this group. But Naturist Mark trys to pass off the lie that Obama has nothing to do with this group.

One thing that should be done is that voter registrations be done only by election officials or the DMV. This would be a controlled environment where proper ID would be shown and the system would be sure that each person on the voter rolls was indeed eligible to vote. If groups like ACORN wants to help low income voters register, pick them up in a bus like they have done this year and take them to the registrar's office. They should have no problem with that if they are only trying to legitimately help low income folks register. Of course, since their agenda is vote fixing, I'm sure they won't like that idea.

Protect your right to vote, make sure these kinds of groups are not ballot stuffing and falsely registering cats to vote(ACORN registered a cat to vote in Ohio). Insist to your state lawmakers that only state officials actually register people to vote. It's too important a job to hand over to homeless people working for cash and cigarettes!!

[Boreas]

This the first year I remember hearing about ACORN. It sounds like a statement against contracting out services to me. It also sounds like an excuse for the losers of an election to whine that things were unfair. I anticipate hearing whining from the GOP side of the fence this election.

[ki4kxq]

This the first year I remember hearing about ACORN. It sounds like a statement against contracting out services to me. It also sounds like an excuse for the losers of an election to whine that things were unfair. I anticipate hearing whining from the GOP side of the fence this election.


One man is testifying today that ACORN registered him to vote 72 times!! He is not the only one that ACORN workers bullied into registering numerous times. Is that how you would want your election board spending their time Boreas? ACORN has come under scrutiny in the elections of 94, 2000, 2004 and this year. Most of those elections were won by Republicans, not democrats. The difference is that this year, they have become very sloppy with their tactics, almost daring someone to do anything about it.

As far as losing the election, even though McCain has done just about everything he can to lose this election, the polls are now tightening up. McCain has narrowed the lead of Obama to 4 pts. Keep in mind that most polls always give the democrat a bigger edge than they actually end up with on election day. In fact, in his landslide victory over Jimmy Carter in 1980, Ronald Reagan did not take the lead in the polls until 10 days before the election.

With McCain running such a dismal campaign, Obama still can't close the deal. I believe people are having some serious second thoughts about Obama in the closing days of this election, which they should have.

[Boreas]

One man is testifying today that ACORN registered him to vote 72 times!! He is not the only one that ACORN workers bullied into registering numerous times. Is that how you would want your election board spending their time Boreas?

No it is not. That is why I said that ACORN sounds like a good example of why privatization and contracting out services is not always a good thing. I am absolutely baffled by the idea that each state has different rules for voter registration in a federal election. That is absolutely insane to me. That says that every citizen in the US is NOT equal (as if I thought they were anyway :rolleyes:)

We have "Elections Canada" to register our voters:

Elections Canada is an independent, non-partisan agency that reports directly to Parliament. We must be prepared at all times to conduct a federal general election, by-election or referendum, administer the political financing provisions of the Canada Elections Act, monitor compliance and enforce electoral legislation. Elections Canada is also mandated to conduct voter education and information programs, and provide support to the independent boundaries commissions in charge of adjusting the boundaries of federal electoral districts following each decennial census. Finally, Elections Canada may carry out studies on alternative voting methods and, with the approval of Parliament, test electronic voting processes for future use during electoral events.

It seems like a much better system. The registration is the same across the country, and we all have the same procedures no matter where we live.

For more information: http://www.elections.ca/intro.asp?section=eca&document=index&lang=e

[ki4kxq]

What you have described as far as "Elections Canada" might be something I would consider as you said they must report directly to parliment. In other words, they are closely scrutinized I would guess.

Groups like ACORN are just allowed to turn in however many voter registration cards they can. ACORN rounds up lower income and homeless folks that certainly could use some extra money, then pay them on commission. They get a certain dollar amount for every card they turn in. That practice alone invites massive fraud as their are no checks on these cards. Some testimony by these ACORN workers also alledge that they are threatened with dismissal if they do not fulfull a certain quota by the hour. Again, that invites massive fraud. Compensation on this type of work should be by the hour or the day.

ACORN says it makes triple phone calls to make sure each registration is legitimate. If that were the case, we wouldn't have the Dallas Cowboys football team registered to vote in Nevada. We also wouldn't have multiple people registered 20, 30 even 70 plus times.

Again, I believe only those folks that are held accountable to the government should actually be allowed to register folks to vote. It sounds like "Elections Canada" meets that qualification.

[usmc1]

One man is testifying today that ACORN registered him to vote 72 times!! He is not the only one that ACORN workers bullied into registering numerous times. Is that how you would want your election board spending their time Boreas? ACORN has come under scrutiny in the elections of 94, 2000, 2004 and this year. Most of those elections were won by Republicans, not democrats. The difference is that this year, they have become very sloppy with their tactics, almost daring someone to do anything about it.

As far as losing the election, even though McCain has done just about everything he can to lose this election, the polls are now tightening up. McCain has narrowed the lead of Obama to 4 pts. Keep in mind that most polls always give the democrat a bigger edge than they actually end up with on election day. In fact, in his landslide victory over Jimmy Carter in 1980, Ronald Reagan did not take the lead in the polls until 10 days before the election.

With McCain running such a dismal campaign, Obama still can't close the deal. I believe people are having some serious second thoughts about Obama in the closing days of this election, which they should have.


The problem with these apocryphal tales is that they overlook a very simple fact. Some one can fill out 100 registration cards, which will result in their being registered but once! You are not registered and get to vote the number of cards you fill out, you are registered...period! Once! Regardless.

The amount of misinformation being circulated by the right-wing on this isues transcends misunderstanding. It is intentional propagation of lies!

[usmc1]

...
As far as losing the election, even though McCain has done just about everything he can to lose this election, the polls are now tightening up. McCain has narrowed the lead of Obama to 4 pts. Keep in mind that most polls always give the democrat a bigger edge than they actually end up with on election day. In fact, in his landslide victory over Jimmy Carter in 1980, Ronald Reagan did not take the lead in the polls until 10 days before the election.

With McCain running such a dismal campaign, Obama still can't close the deal. I believe people are having some serious second thoughts about Obama in the closing days of this election, which they should have.

Close? Where? Even West Virginia is tilting toward Obama. What's that sound? Righties whistling past the graveyard!

PRINCETON, NJ -- Voter preferences in the presidential race continue to be generally auspicious for Barack Obama's election prospects only three weeks ahead of the eve of Election Day. Obama leads McCain by 10 percentage points, 51% to 41%, among all registered voters, according to Gallup Poll Daily tracking (http://www.gallup.com/tag/Gallup%2bDaily.aspx) from Oct. 10-12.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/qi5jkihsdkygozlcmtl09w.gif



Obama Leads on Intrade 353 to 185

This morning's state-by-state Intrade.com (http://www.intrade.com/) map shows Obama with 353 electoral votes to McCain's 185. This is not far off from our score of 346 to 181 with Missouri tied. Bettors think Obama will sweep all the Kerry states plus Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada. The only swing state colored red is Missouri. Here is the Intrade map.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Images/Intrade-map-Oct13.jpg
Obama Continues to Lead in the National Polls

Here is today's batch of national polls. Obama has an average lead nationally of 8%.
- Diageo tracking (Obama +8)
- Gallup Tracking (Obama +7)
- Rasmussen tracking (Obama +6)
- Research 2000 tracking (Obama +13)
- Washington Post/ABC (Obama +10)
- Zogby (Obama +4)

[Qikdraw]

Again, I believe only those folks that are held accountable to the government should actually be allowed to register folks to vote. It sounds like "Elections Canada" meets that qualification.

Ok. You heard it here first ladies and gentlemen! ki4kxq is advocating for a larger government! :D

Sorry ki, I coudn't resist. :stick:

:D

[Boreas]

Ok. You heard it here first ladies and gentlemen! ki4kxq is advocating for a larger government! :D

Sorry ki, I coudn't resist. :stick:

:D

LOL. :laugh: Now, be nice. :sneaky:

As for the comments about McCain losing, I really hope he does not get in. I do not think the world can afford another goverment like the last one. I do not think the current crop of Republicans represent the true nature of the party.

[Qikdraw]

LOL. :laugh: Now, be nice. :sneaky:

I am being nice! It wasn't meant in any way mean, it was just a tease. :)

As for the comments about McCain losing, I really hope he does not get in. I do not think the world can afford another goverment like the last one. I do not think the current crop of Republicans represent the true nature of the party.

I don't think either party really represents the majority of Americans. Which is why I have always advocated voting 3rd party if you do not like the current two party leaders. the system will not change if the people continue to support the system.

[Qikdraw]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Images/Intrade-map-Oct13.jpg


I'd like to see some of those northern states that has small McCain leads go to Obama too. I'd like to see a large blowout election for Obama, not just to get him in, but to get the republican party to change. For the last 30 years they have been lead by neo-cons who really do not care for traditional republican values. Republicans used to stand for responsible government, but the neo-cons just don't care. Its all about secrecy and more power. Hopefully if Obama can get a landslide victory the republican party will revolt and get these people out of the back rooms and out of the party power structure.

[Boreas]

I am being nice! It wasn't meant in any way mean, it was just a tease. :)

I know. Just teasing you back. :p

I don't think either party really represents the majority of Americans. Which is why I have always advocated voting 3rd party if you do not like the current two party leaders. the system will not change if the people continue to support the system.

I know and agree. That has been a topic up here these days. Of course the Liberals are saying that if you vote NDP or Green, you will get a Conservative majority. I have the good fortune :confused: of living in a riding that will no doubt get the same Conservative MP again. He has been in since 1993, and I see no reason for this to change tomorrow. Consequently, I can vote my conscience and give my voice to a party I can support. I can assure you it will not be Conservative or Liberal!

[jon71]

I think Republicans talking so much about the "scandal" (lol) of Acorn is the fact that they're already looking for a scapegoat for McCain losing. In '92 (and this election feels SO much like '92 to me) they said Perot lost it for them despite the fact that he split "change" and "anti-incumbent" votes with Clinton. I'd say 80-90% or Perot's votes would have gone to Clinton but oh well.

[Qikdraw]

I know. Just teasing you back. :p

I think I'm going to curl into a fetal ball and cry now. :(

I know and agree. That has been a topic up here these days. Of course the Liberals are saying that if you vote NDP or Green, you will get a Conservative majority. I have the good fortune :confused: of living in a riding that will no doubt get the same Conservative MP again. He has been in since 1993, and I see no reason for this to change tomorrow. Consequently, I can vote my conscience and give my voice to a party I can support. I can assure you it will not be Conservative or Liberal!

I don't think what the Liberals are saying is right. You need to vote for who you like best is what I think. I remember a long time ago in Wpg, a friend and I were driving along, and he had talk radio going, they were talking about a coming election and one guy called in and said he had a problem. He knew both main contenders for his area, he liked one, and absolutely hated the other, as he had done business with this guy and did not trust him at all. The problem was the guy who he liked personally was the opposite party from his normal vote, and his normal party had the guy he hated. He really did not want to see the jerk in office, but then if he didn't get in his party would take a hit nationally. He was really torn on how to vote, and shows a weakness in our system.

[usmc1]

I'd like to see some of those northern states that has small McCain leads go to Obama too. I'd like to see a large blowout election for Obama, not just to get him in, but to get the republican party to change. For the last 30 years they have been lead by neo-cons who really do not care for traditional republican values. Republicans used to stand for responsible government, but the neo-cons just don't care. Its all about secrecy and more power. Hopefully if Obama can get a landslide victory the republican party will revolt and get these people out of the back rooms and out of the party power structure.

North Dakota is back in play as of today as is West Virginia. The McCain campaign is like a gut-shot wolf tearing at its own innards. They spent the week-end hatching up a new economic proposal and once the numbers got crunched they had to bag it. They're arguing among themselves as to what to do next.

That nit-wit Palin is telling the world that being found guilty of abuse of power means no ethics violations were found.

Rightwingers are frothing that Obama wants to shift the tax policies so that not just the top two percent and corporations have an opportunity to get ahead. Fools.

[usmc1]

Forget ACORN. Here's real voter fraud. 12,000 non-resident RVers, register an address in East Texas and vote absentee, regardless of where they actually live.

http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2860

[Naturist Mark]

<center><a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/?action=view&current=ToTheBarricades.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/ToTheBarricades.jpg" border="0" alt="To The Barricades"></a></center>I think Republicans talking so much about the "scandal" (lol) of Acorn is the fact that they're already looking for a scapegoat for McCain losing.
There may be a little of that, but mostly they are doing it to provide cover for their large scale purges of registered voters. In some states where new voter registrations are running very high, twice as many registrations have been purged.

The election is being stolen right now, in plain sight, and the lapdog media is ignoring it.

Here's some of the latest news from Ohio (http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2008/3229) that you won't see on the news:A Republican sheriff in Greene County, Ohio, has demanded social security and other records from 302 local voters whose ballots he apparently wants to negate. Sheriff Gene Fischer has requested registration cards and address forms for all Greene County residents who voted in a special session established in Ohio allowing new voters to register and vote on the same day. The process was challenged in court by the GOP. The Ohio Supreme Court turned down that challenge, and allowed the same-day voting to proceed. But now Fischer claims telephone calls complaining about the potential for voter fraud have prompted him to go after the information.
...
the Sheriff says he has no evidence of voter fraud other than phone calls stating fraud was a possibility. It is widely assumed that the same-day registration/voting option was exercised primarily by students who lean heavily Democratic. In 2004, African-American students from Wright State, Central State and Wilberforce were regularly challenged on their registration credentials and forced to endure waiting in lines to vote for hours. Students at Cedarville, a Christian school, made no such reports. Sheriff Fischer's targeting of historically black college students, the core of Obama-mania, is intended to send a chilling effect through the ranks of these Democratic voters.Got that? On the basis of NO EVIDENCE, just hysterical and illogical stories about ACORN, a Sheriff - NOT an elections official - is trying to have the votes of 302 early voters nullified.In Franklin County, home of Ohio State University, Columbus State Community College, Capital University, Ohio Dominican University, and Otterbein College, election protection observers are reporting continuing surveillance by Republicans at Veterans Memorial, the site for early voting. The observers have documented Republican operatives taking photographs and writing down license plate numbers of voters. Election activists expect similar criminal charges as in Greene County to be filed in the state's capital. Deliberate misrepresentation of ACORN's registration activities are all through the mass media, seldom reporting the spurious and illogical nature of the chargesThe grassroots organizing group ACORN has come under serious attack in Nevada, Missouri, Ohio and elsewhere from Republicans attempting to negate the thousands of generally low-income citizens ACORN has registered to vote. As a matter of law, ACORN is required to report irregular registrations that come through its process. But GOP operatives have equated these with "fraudulent" filings, and a have ramped up a smear and fear campaign aimed at negating thousands of legitimate ACORN registrants throughout the US.
Meanwhile Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is appealing the ruling in a case brought by the Republican Party by Federal Judge George C. Smith, a Reagan appointee, that allows county elections boards to continue purging voter registrations even though it violates federal law prohibiting purges in the 90 days before an election. Judge Smith cited the concerns about ACORN in his decision.Before the ruling, Brunner announced at the close of registration that the number of registered voters in Ohio had jumped by 665,949, from 7,518,189 active voters on January 1, 2008, to 8,184,138 active voters now. About 5.4 million votes were officially counted in Ohio's 2004 presidential election. Then-Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell certified a Bush victory of less than 119,000 votes. A massive GOP disenfranchisement campaign could easily exceed that margin.Obama is miles ahead of McCain in this election, but I am not at all confident that he can win more votes than they can steal away.

The mass media can refuse to cover the story, they can spin the credulous fairy tales about ACORN that gives cover to vote stealing, but if the official results on that November Wednesday morning do not jibe with what reality plainly shows to be true ... well ... have no doubt about it, this country will not sheepishly stand by for a third stolen election. There will be hell to pay.

I'll meet you at the barricades

-Mark
<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[NudeAl]

Thanks again for this info Mark.

In your opinion what, if anything, can be done about this? Specifically I was thinking in terms of getting this issue recognized in the mainstream media and letting large numbers of Americans know it exists. I would think there are some legal procedures that the Democrats should be looking at or are they not concerned? After reading this I am starting to become very concerned that we may see a replay of the 2000 elections.

[Naturist Mark]

Thanks again for this info Mark.

In your opinion what, if anything, can be done about this? Specifically I was thinking in terms of getting this issue recognized in the mainstream media and letting large numbers of Americans know it exists. I would think there are some legal procedures that the Democrats should be looking at or are they not concerned? After reading this I am starting to become very concerned that we may see a replay of the 2000 elections.

It would be great if you could jump in front of a camera and get interviewed on your local news when they are doing election related 'man in the street' spots. Of course it is hard to boil what is happening into the pithy soundbites they are looking for.

Letters to the editor, of course. Something along the lines of my earlier posts about how they are counting on all of us being simpering idiots when they spin illogical stories about ACORN, and WHY they are doing it.

Click on the "Steal Back Your Vote" (http://stealbackyourvote.org) banner in the my posts - there is a printable comic book you can download for a donation (a penny or a thousand bucks - your choice). The centerpiece of the comic is 7 steps you can take to make your vote be counted. I am one of the sponsors of that campaign - drop me a PM if you want a preview copy first or just don't feel like making a donation.

Steal Back Your Vote (http://stealbackyourvote.org) lays out the many ways our votes are being negated, I'm distributing copies around town alongside the free papers and shoppers guides.

usmc1 made some great suggestions in this post (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showpost.php?p=211477&postcount=38) and about the great work of People For The American Way - also mostly about protecting your own vote.

As for getting nationwide media to pay attention ... sigh ... most of them are owned by corporations that have a vested interest in this story NOT being reported. Call in programs are a possibility - right wing radio would be of little use, but calling in to Larry King Live might work. Of course it would be even better to go right to the pinnacle of today's news media - anybody got Jon Stewart's phone number?

-Mark

<blockquote>The heaven-born mission of journalism is to disseminate truth; to eradicate error; to educate, refine, and elevate the tone of public morals and manners, and make all men more gentle, more virtuous, more charitable, and in all ways better, and holier, and happier. -- Mark Twain</blockquote><center>... sigh ...</center>

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[ki4kxq]

Qikdraw, there are a few things that I believe the federal government should be involved in. Overseeing a federal election might be one of those very few things.

USMC-1 and Naturist Mark, a 4pt lead within 3 weeks of the election is not Obama running circles around McCain. Again, McCain has run an absolutely dismal campaign, and, put together with this financial mess, Obama should have already put a nail in his coffin. That hasn't happened much to my surprise. Could it be that folks are finding out more about Obama and they don't like what they see. Yep, even the common folk are finding out that Obama will not be cutting their taxes. A plumber, (hardly the so called fat cat rich) nailed Obama on the campaign trail about having his taxes raised and being punished for his success. Obama told him, (captured on tape) that it was a good thing in his opinion to spread the wealth around. Really? Can you say socialism and income redistribution? Again, this isn't the evil 1% that we've been told that he would be taking money from, it's a plumber. You know, the one Gov Palin calls Joe Sixpack.

Now, everybody, sit down and take a very deep breath as I am about to agree with Qikdraw. Ready? If McCain loses it's not because Obama is the better candidate. We will go through at least 2 years of socialist hell. However, if McCain loses it's because he is not a conservative republican. We thought we were going to get a conservative with GW. All we got were the tax cuts (good), constitutional constructionist on the supreme court (great), and safety at home(good). He however was not conservative. Republicans have become as bad on spending, if not worse than democrats. They did halfway stand up against illegal immigration, but only after a huge outcry from the people. They didn't go nearly far enough. McCain should have come out against the bailout, and this extraordinary nationalization of banks. McCain should be all about drilling, not bailing out homeowners. McCain should be about stopping illegal immigration and making sure our laws are followed. If it were not for the supreme court and at least two judges up for retirement soon, and the 2nd amendment, I would rather have Obama elected. Let people find out that Obama was talking about them when he said raising taxes. Republicans problems stem from not having a conservative republican in for quite some time.

Btw, a little note to Obama. Taking from working folks and having the treasury issue a check to folks that pay no income taxes, is not a tax cut. That is called welfare. Also, if Obama is so smart, how come he keeps saying that he will cut capital gains tax to small businesses. Small businesses don't pay capital gains tax Obama. People are catching onto that though as is shown by your going from an 11pt lead to a 4 pt lead in less than a week.

[Naturist Mark]

USMC-1 and Naturist Mark, a 4pt lead within 3 weeks of the election is not Obama running circles around McCain.

The polls I've seen put Obama more like 7 points ahead nationwide. But then again you should note that I don't think that is enough - those are polls of how people intend to vote - not of those who will have their votes counted - 7 percent isn't enough to overcome the kind of election fraud we saw in 2004, much less the elevated level we are likely to see this year. Races always tighten up as you approach election day, and everything points to this being a year of tremendous election fraud and disenfranchisement - with chaos at the polls when hundreds of thousands of voters are denied ballots. Don't believe me? Watch for little reported stories of extra police and private security (like Blackwater) being assigned to "protect" polling places in those urban precincts where most of the disenfranchised voters will be turned away - causing long delays and chaos.

As for the comments on socialism - do you even know what socialism is? Because the only socialism I've seen advocated is by the White House and McCain campaign. Seriously. What is your definition of socialism?

-Mark

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[ki4kxq]

As for the comments on socialism - do you even know what socialism is? Because the only socialism I've seen advocated is by the White House and McCain campaign. Seriously. What is your definition of socialism?

-Mark

I just got done driving all night so maybe I didn't make myself clear. McCain should have voted against the bailout. I believe I mentioned in the above post about the nationalization of banks. Those are socialistic and I called both my Senators and Congressman to tell them to vote NO!

Obama believes that it is ok to take the hard earned income from folks and give to those that HE believes should be successful too. Government handouts don't make anybody successful. If someone wants to go to college, let them pay for it. If someone signed up for a mortgage that they couldn't afford, the only remedy, unless they make more money and can afford to keep it, is to sell it. It is not the governments job to keep folks in their homes.

I know folks say college is not affordable, yes it is. Read a story not long ago about a kid that paints curb numbers in front of houses for $5 a piece. He does it all summer. That money pays for 1 year of tuition. Good grief, people in this country have just gotten lazy and don't want to do what's necessary to succeed. They think it's the governments job to do it for them.

[Boreas]

Socialist hell???? There is NOTHING in the US that represents socialism as far as I can see.

As for college grants and such. I was able to get my undergrad degree with the help of some government grants and low interest loans. I also worked my tail off with the Army Reserve in the summers and during the school year. Let's see, I was in the military, does that make me a conservative supporter???? I accepted student grants, does that make me a socialist? I did them both at the same time, what does THAT mean???? :eek: :confused: For the record, I have since paid off those loans, and have gotten a graduate degree. I am now a tax paying, contributing citizen. I am not a slacker living off the government hand outs. Sometimes government supports are more economical in the long run. They do not always create dependency.

It is a myth that people need to be totally self-sufficient. It is right-winged rhetoric that allows the status quo to continue. I would recommend some reading and learning to fix that dualistic thinking.

[ki4kxq]

Socialist hell???? There is NOTHING in the US that represents socialism as far as I can see.

As for college grants and such. I was able to get my undergrad degree with the help of some government grants and low interest loans. I also worked my tail off with the Army Reserve in the summers and during the school year. Let's see, I was in the military, does that make me a conservative supporter???? I accepted student grants, does that make me a socialist? I did them both at the same time, what does THAT mean???? :eek: :confused: For the record, I have since paid off those loans, and have gotten a graduate degree. I am now a tax paying, contributing citizen. I am not a slacker living off the government hand outs. Sometimes government supports are more economical in the long run. They do not always create dependency.

It is a myth that people need to be totally self-sufficient. It is right-winged rhetoric that allows the status quo to continue. I would recommend some reading and learning to fix that dualistic thinking.

Let's see, you were serving your country in the Army Reserve while your country was helping you pay for college. Nope, that's not socialist. Trying to get elected by promising everybody and his brother a handout for college is socialism. The point is Boreas, you worked your butt off in service to your country and they in return helped you pay for school. We have programs down here that will completely pay for your school in certain fields (doctors, nurses, teachers, etc) if you agree to work in underserved areas (rural or inner city) for a few years after graduation. Those are not socialistic either, there is an exchange of goods and/or services.

Don't read much, don't have time. Listen to audiobooks downloaded to the Ipod instead as I have 11 hours of drive time every night. Recently finished Zig Ziglar, Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Larry Wingett, and Joel Osteen. Starting on Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Larry Wingett's was one of my favorites. The title "Your broke because you want to be". I'm not sure if you would like that one or not, especially if you judge it by the title alone. It does however give a good insight as to why some people succeed and some do not.

[usmc1]

Trying to get elected by promising everybody and his brother a handout for college is socialism.
Nope, no such promises have been made and no such programs exist except in the minds of the dysfnctional and selfish few.

Don't read much Believe me it shows!

[usmc1]

Obama believes that it is ok to take the hard earned income from folks and give to those that HE believes should be successful too.

No he does not. This is false characterization of what he has said and has put forth..you should try reading his statements in their entirety.

[jon71]

It's pretty obvious that ki4kxq lives in the imaginary world where Rush and Sean are actually telling the truth and conservativism isn't a soon to be anachronism. In the real world Obama will cut takes for very nearly all Americans. McCain will drop taxes on less than 10% of Americans. Guess which less than 10% come out ahead. Here we have a conservative saying that middle class tax cuts are socialism. I suppose that tells you the state of conservativism now.

[usmc1]

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Shane/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJ9wy2MI1NI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJ9wy2MI1NI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Naturist Mark]

Obama believes that it is ok to take the hard earned income from folks and give to those that HE believes should be successful too.Nope, Obama's tax plan lets those with hard earned income keep more of it, while returning the rates of those who easily accumulated large amounts of unearned income to rates not quite as high as those under Clinton - when we had the longest period of economic growth in American historyTrying to get elected by promising everybody and his brother a handout for college is socialism.No, that is not socialism. Not even close. Clue: socialism has something to do with economics and ownership - trying looking on teh internets, or a Political Science 101 text.Those are not socialistic either, there is an exchange of goods and/or services.Again, total ignorance. There is an exchange of goods and services under socialism, socialists even use money!

Seriously, you shouldn't be deriding anybody's policies as "socialist" when you clearly have no idea what it means.

-Mark

[Boreas]

Seriously, you shouldn't be deriding anybody's policies as "socialist" when you clearly have no idea what it means.

:applause:

[NudeAl]

Socialism? LOL! You mean like what just happened today?LOL

You mean socialism is like when the government goes out and buys large private corperations like AIG Freddie Mac and Fanny May or just like they did today buying 20 BILLION worth of Bank of America, Wells Fargo and several other huge banks? You bet we have a socialist government and we can thank GW and his robber barron buddies who got burned by being greedy SOBs!

[Naturist Mark]

OK folks, I did some calculations on today's positions of Obama and McCain in the electoral college, based on the multi-poll averaging tabulated at Electoral-vote.com (http://www.electoral-vote.com/icon.html), then I adjusted each State's weighted average with that State's Red Shift (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0411/S00270.htm) - the closest measure we have of the effect of error and electoral fraud as it occurred in the 2004 election - this was calculated by comparing the raw data of the 2004 exit polls before 'normalization' with the official results.

The result was to flip five States from Obama to McCain: Florida, Ohio, Virginia, New Hampshire and Colorado.

Under this scenario Obama still wins by 30 electoral votes: 284 Obama to 254 McCain

If you assume 3% margin of error, 88 electoral votes become uncertain, far more than Obama's 30 vote lead. That is still a healthy advantage to Obama, but far from the certain win some would assert.

The nifty map below was made using the dKos election map beta (http://images.dailykos.com/map/scoreboardc.html).

This analysis does not account for voters turned away from the polls because their registrations have been purged - which at this time appears to be the primary method being employed to subvert this election.

[NudeAl]

Keith Oberman on MSNBC just touched on the voter fraud issue and mentioned the purging voters in key battleground states. Hoepfully others will also pick up on this and get the word out. He scribed it as a systemic effort to rig the election.

[jon71]

In Pat Buchanan's column today he said the same thing as one of local conservatives, that middle class tax cuts are the same thing as socialism. Conservative world would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[brazhunter]

Keith Oberman on MSNBC just touched on the voter fraud issue and mentioned the purging voters in key battleground states. Hoepfully others will also pick up on this and get the word out. He scribed it as a systemic effort to rig the election.

Apparently you have no problem with ine