Will McCain look at Obama this debate?

[Qikdraw]

Will he still look away from Obama or will his handlers have coached him to look at him?

[jon71]

With so many advisers viewing the tape and reading forums and analysis why should McCain make the same mistake twice. After all there are so many new mistakes he can make.

[usmc1]

With so many advisers viewing the tape and reading forums and analysis why should McCain make the same mistake twice. After all there are so many new mistakes he can make.

I would very much be surprised if he has the gall to look him in the face.

Whatever manhood John McCain once had, whatever courage, whatever ethics, strength of character, whatever bit of humanity he may have once had (and, there is legitimate questions as to whether or not he ever really had any such traits) have gone over time, eroded by the winds of avarice, and venality and worn away by the tides of greed, self-indulgence and unbridled ambition.

If he looks it will be the side-long, veiled, calculating glance of the sneak-thief and felon, with the simpering smile of misdirection of a con-man, and the false bon homme of a poseur.

But, it will not be the look in the eyes that a man with an unblemished heart that a man true man shares with an opponent. It will be the look that "old slew foot" saves for the virtuous.

[Naturist Mark]

<blockquote>The Obama-McCain event tonight consists of two parallel press conferences that happen to be in the same room. The detailed rules hammered out by the two campaigns state that the questions were to have been submitted in advance by the audience members and over the Internet. The questioner may not change the question and the microphone will be cut off after the question. Neither the questioner nor the moderator, Tom Brokaw of NBC, may ask followup questions. The candidates may not question each other. There will be no debate at all. source (http://www.electoral-vote.com/index.html)</quote>

[NudonyII]

<blockquote>The Obama-McCain event tonight consists of two parallel press conferences that happen to be in the same room. The detailed rules hammered out by the two campaigns state that the questions were to have been submitted in advance by the audience members and over the Internet. The questioner may not change the question and the microphone will be cut off after the question. Neither the questioner nor the moderator, Tom Brokaw of NBC, may ask followup questions. The candidates may not question each other. There will be no debate at all. source (http://www.electoral-vote.com/index.html)</quote>

Which means they will probably entirely ignore each other. It's on in five minutes so we'll know soon enough.

[Qikdraw]

Obama has missed 3 chances, so far, to mention that McCain proposes 1.3 Trillion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid to pay for his $5,000 heath care package. Not only that but tied into how McCain wants to privatize Social Security and has called it a 'discrace'.

Really disappointed how Obama is doing tonight.

McCain needs to stop saying 'my friends' too. Its getting annoying.

[Naturist Mark]

I caught McCain looking at Obama at least once, might have been by accident.

The two words that will be most remembered from this 'debate': McCain pointing and calling Obama That One instead of using his name.

Did McCain just forget Barack's name? Or was it a deliberate echo of his "The One" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mopkn0lPzM8) attack ad? A lot of people are saying it was a slur, whether deliberate or unintended. I suspect it was just a brain fart.

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-Mark

[Qikdraw]

I think it was just a brain fart. I don't think he meant it in any way negative.

[Naturist Mark]

During the debate John McCain made a 'new' proposal to shore up the economy by having the government buy up all the distressed mortgages.

Which left most viewers wondering WTF? Wasn't that what the $700 Billion dollar bailout program is for?

Well yes ... there is authority for that in the bailout bill - the new 'economy czar' can use the funding for that.

The McCain campaign is now saying McCain didn't make a mistake, this is a real proposal, with an estimated price tag of $300 Billion.

Which begs the question ... if McCain believes we need a new bill and new funding to buy up mortgages ... just what does he think that $700 Billion was authorized for? Is he really publicly admitting it is going to ... other pockets? Does he know something that the rest of us don't?

-Mark

[Naturist Mark]

I think it was just a brain fart. I don't think he meant it in any way negative.

Yeah ... a lot of people are going to be going over those two words tomorrow, trying to extract meaning from them.

I just think McCain was really off his game - he looked like he didn't feel well, his smiles were grimaces, his body language much more awkward than usual - he kind of reminded me of "The Penguin" in the old Adam West TV show. I think he may have been feeling ill - thus his rushing away within moments of the end of the debate.

-Mark

[Boreas]

From that little clip, it looked like he was trying to be cute or something. It looks very unprofessional to me.

I did not watch the debate. It was choir night for me, and singing was much more fun!

[Croydon]

During the debate John McCain made a 'new' proposal to shore up the economy by having the government buy up all the distressed mortgages.

Which left most viewers wondering WTF? Wasn't that what the $700 Billion dollar bailout program is for?

Well yes ... there is authority for that in the bailout bill - the new 'economy czar' can use the funding for that.

The McCain campaign is now saying McCain didn't make a mistake, this is a real proposal, with an estimated price tag of $300 Billion.

Which begs the question ... if McCain believes we need a new bill and new funding to buy up mortgages ... just what does he think that $700 Billion was authorized for? Is he really publicly admitting it is going to ... other pockets? Does he know something that the rest of us don't?

-Mark

Thank you. I thought my mind was playing tricks on me. I was taken aback by McCain's proposal to buy up bad mortgages. I asked myself, "wasn't that already part of the bailout bill?" I assumed I was wrong b/c Obama didn't "correct" McCain.

Even if the mortgage buyout wasn't part of the bailout deal, what makes John McCain think that Americans are up to doing ANOTHER bailout?

Overall, I thought the debate was boring. McCain was his usual grumpy and dismissive self. Obama missed opportunities to set the record straight as well as show viewers that McCain doesn't have their interest at heart. For ex: As Quick stated, why isn't Obama or his campaign discussed McCain's plan to cut funding on Medicare and Medicaid? I am sure a lot of the elderly are unaware.

Both candidates hardly answered the questions. Rather than give a direct answer, they both either talked about something mildly related to the question or gave a general/vague answer to the question. One question was about trust from a woman in audience...her question is why should she trust either candidate when both dem and republicans have screwed us all. I thought that was a great question but neither answered the Q. For Obama, I thought that was a slam dunk Q for him. He could have discussed his past work as community organizer where he worked with working and middle class and he could have also spoken about some of his initiatives in the senate. He could have even spoken about the many John Smiths he met across America and how he understands their struggle.

One stark difference I notice about Obama and McCain is their energy policy. I realized McCain has no clue about energy. In the debate, he rattled all off all these energy terms but didn't really have a plan. We should invest in wind, solar, hydrogen, battery operated cars, and nuclear, he said...but I still ask, "exactly what is the plan?" Then he discusses offshore drilling, exactly how does that work into energy policy? Shouldn't we be trying to get ourselves OFF oil? Obama explained his policy well. He sees investment in energy similar to the way government invested in computers: it is a gateway to a new kind of economic strength.

Neither men stood out but I give Obama the leg up in this one. McCain just doesn't get it. His negativity, snide comments and dismissive attitude isn't helping him. Because so much is at stake, voters are not interested in insults and school yard bully games.

[LamontCranston]

AP Radio News ran a sound byte this morning of Obama saying something like, "The current economic crisis is a cap on the failed economic policies of the Bush Admin and supported by Senator McCain."

So, he doesn't think we know the Democrats have run Congress during parts of that time? And he doesn't think we know Congress legislates law to correct problems?

More excuses. More finger-pointing.

The house of cards is tumbling and the two people lined up to take charge are still whining, "the Democrats did this and the Republicans did that." Anyone else tired of those two words?

Meanwhile, as the last few posters point out, they may have just passed a Bill that does something different than advertised and stock markets around the world are tumbling. Just how many houses are in foreclosure and when are they going to let on what's really wrong?

[NudonyII]

Yeah ... a lot of people are going to be going over those two words tomorrow, trying to extract meaning from them.

I just think McCain was really off his game - he looked like he didn't feel well, his smiles were grimaces, his body language much more awkward than usual - he kind of reminded me of "The Penguin" in the old Adam West TV show. I think he may have been feeling ill - thus his rushing away within moments of the end of the debate.

-Mark

If you had the sound cranked up, you could hear McCain wheezing between sentences. He obviously was having some difficulty breathing. I actually kinda felt bad for him. I think it's going to make a lot of people wonder: "Can he even make it through a full term?":confused:

[usmc1]

FOX, CNN, CBS REACTION GROUPS: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/who-won-the-debate-insta_n_132827.html)
OBAMA WON (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/who-won-the-debate-insta_n_132827.html)


There was a post debate moment when the wives joined the candidates in talking to the audience and Obama extended his hand to McCain and McCain refused to take it. A brief moment, but I'm certain at some point, someone will send it viral.

What a cheesy middle-school act on the part of a man trying to present himself as a mature, sober and experienced world leader.

My personal take is that McCain blew whatever chance for recovery he might have had going into this debate. The internals show that, once gain, Obama scored very well with female and, this time, with male independents and undecideds.

I notice also that McCain was heavily dependent on his legal pad of notes and once he went extemporaneous he started to drift, ramble, and bark out things in some sort of weird free-association litany that really had nothing to do with his previous utterance.

Both irritated the hell out of me by refusing to answer the gist of the audience questions choosing instead to re-frame and stay on message with pre-scripted responses. But, I recognize that at this point in the campaign neither wished to introduce any new or different phrase, suggestion or nuance. But, it does piss me off that the first question from the older rretiree did not get answered, and later the woman's very direct question about treating healthcare as a commodity.

This should be a warning to all that the devil is indeed in the details and that the "bail-out" / "rescue" package really does very damned little for ordinary people. Neither of the candidates were able to reach into it and pluck out a meaningful response which said this is how its going to make things better for you!

Brokaw's question about healthcare was prescient and really served to underscore the "fundamental" differences in the philosophies and beliefs of the two. Obama spoke of it as being a right and McCain spoke of it as being a responsibility. I would have like to have seen Obama talk of it in terms of being a basic human right and so important and elemental that is is invoked in the preamble to the constitution.

Again, Obama did what he needed to do and McCain came up short. Obama came up looking poised, professional, and presidential and McCain came across as the angry, small-town, conservative book-store owner.

[Qikdraw]

AP Radio News ran a sound byte this morning of Obama saying something like, "The current economic crisis is a cap on the failed economic policies of the Bush Admin and supported by Senator McCain."

So, he doesn't think we know the Democrats have run Congress during parts of that time? And he doesn't think we know Congress legislates law to correct problems?

More excuses. More finger-pointing.

The house of cards is tumbling and the two people lined up to take charge are still whining, "the Democrats did this and the Republicans did that." Anyone else tired of those two words?

Don't the republicans still have enough power to block anything the democrats propose? I'm not saying you're not correct, but that there may be more than one reason why things are not getting done.

Meanwhile, as the last few posters point out, they may have just passed a Bill that does something different than advertised and stock markets around the world are tumbling. Just how many houses are in foreclosure and when are they going to let on what's really wrong?

Was that the plan that McCain said was 'my plan', and no one elses? So if it was already in the bill why is he claiming credit for it? I may be wrong in what he said that about, so if I'm wrong lemme know. :p

[Qikdraw]

Yeah ... a lot of people are going to be going over those two words tomorrow, trying to extract meaning from them.

Well apparently the GOP is going to use 'that one' as a rallying cry.

RNC on “That One” (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/08/rnc-on-that-one/)

“The King” Carl Cameron reports that an RNC official on on background, positively describes McCain’s “that one” comment as one of the most memorable:

“The most memorable line of the night belonged to John McCain. McCain pointed out that “That One” vote for the 05 energy bill. Look for Republicans to note in coming days that “That One” also voted for higher taxes at least 94 times; “That One” has associations with unrepentant terrorists, etc…”

Earlier, Obama Spox Bill Burton sent out an email out to reporters on that comment.

per Mosh Oinounou:

In an email to reporters, Obama spokesman Bill Burton asks rhetorically if McCain referred to Obama as “that one.”

Burton is referencing this line in which JSM attacked his rival on his energy vote.
21:48:28 “It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate, loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney. You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me.”

[narod]

McCain was a little more civil when he greated Obama at the beginning of the Oct 7th debate. But, No, he didn't look at Obama. And I'm sure it will be the same on this coming weeks debate.

[KNude]

While the dems did have a small majority in the house and senate, they did not have enough votes to override a veto or to stop a filarbuster. Both were used and threatened by the GOP to stop many bills. Dems had a little more power this last two years but not enough to really get anything done.

[Naturist Mark]

While the dems did have a small majority in the house and senate, they did not have enough votes to override a veto or to stop a filarbuster. Both were used and threatened by the GOP to stop many bills. Dems had a little more power this last two years but not enough to really get anything done.

Its only been in the last year and a half that the Democrats have had a majority in Congress. But only razor thin in the Senate where the Republicans have blocked nearly every single bill except a very few 'must pass' bills - filibustering nearly 100 times - a world record. The very brief Democratic majority in the Senate (but not house) during the summer of 2001 was also razor thin, and didn't matter after 9/11 since Congress rolled over and played dead for the next year, or arguably ever since ...

-Mark

[usmc1]

THREE FOR THREE (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/15/who-won-the-last-debate-o_n_135066.html)

CBS, CNN, FOX INSTANT REACTION... OBAMA TROUNCES MCCAIN (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/15/who-won-the-last-debate-o_n_135066.html)


Well, he finally looked and shook hands...but he should have held Obama's up in the air like a defeated boxer does his winning opponent's. Obama wins again, and moves more undecided his way, and creates more favorables.

<!--endclickprintexclude--><!--startclickprintexclude--> <!--endclickprintexclude--> HEMPSTEAD, New York (CNN) -- A majority of debate watchers think Sen. Barack Obama won the third and final presidential debate, according to a national poll conducted right afterward. <!--endclickprintexclude-->Fifty-eight percent of debate watchers questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll said Democratic candidate Obama did the best job in the debate, with 31 percent saying Republican Sen. John McCain performed best.

The poll also suggests that debate watchers' favorable opinion of Obama rose slightly during the debate, from 63 percent at the start to 66 percent at the end. The poll indicates that McCain's favorables dropped slightly, from 51 percent to 49 percent.

The economy was the dominant issue of the debate, and 59 percent of debate watchers polled said Obama would do a better job handling the economy, 24 points ahead of McCain.

During the debate, McCain attacked Obama's stance on taxes, accusing Obama of seeking tax increases that would "spread the wealth around." But by 15 points, 56 percent to 41 percent, debate watchers polled said Obama would do a better job on taxes. By a 2-1 margin, 62 percent to 31 percent, debate watchers said Obama would do a better job on health care.

Sixty-six percent of debate watchers said Obama more clearly expressed his views, with 25 percent saying McCain was more clear about his views.

By 23 points, those polled said Obama was the stronger leader during the debate. By 48 points, they said Obama was more likeable

[Naturist Mark]

<img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/skrat-19385.jpg" align="left" border="0" vspace="3" hspace="6">I was glad to see McCain jump onto the ACORN hysteria bandwagon during the debate. Said something along the lines of it being "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy." Now the corporate media will be forced to fact check it, and will be forced to report how absurd the whole ACORN story line has been.

Of course I won't hold my breath to see if they draw the direct connection between the perpetrators of ACORN hysteria and efforts to purge legitimate voters from the registration rolls.

-Mark

<a href="http://stealbackyourvote.org"><img src="http://gregpalast.com/images/banner4.jpg"/></a>

[Fitz1980]

Of course I won't hold my breath to see if they draw the direct connection between the perpetrators of ACORN hysteria and efforts to purge legitimate voters from the registration rolls.

-Mark


Given that the mainstream media's (lack of) reporting still has voters thinking that the "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth" were actually telling the truth in 2004, that voter disenfranchisement didn't occur in Florida in 2000, that Al Gore said he "invented the internet" & The Sudan offered Bin Laden to Clinton who turned them down I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

[Naturist Mark]

<blockquote>http://www.fox59.com/css/images/wxin.png
Fact Check: McCain taints Obama with community activist group's bad registration cards (http://www.fox59.com/pages/landing_politics/?Fact-Check-McCain-taints-Obama-with-comm=1&blockID=104071&feedID=21)
By DEBORAH HASTINGS

Republican John McCain took his criticism of community activist group ACORN to new heights, claiming in the final presidential debate that the organization "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."

He kept up the attack on Thursday, saying ACORN is being investigated for voter fraud "in every single battleground state" and demanding that Democrat Barack Obama detail his ties to the group.

McCain is correct that at least a handful of ACORN canvassers are currently being investigated across the country by local officials on suspicion of submitting false registration cards, some with names like "Mickey Mouse" or "Donald Duck."

But in alleging voter fraud, McCain goes too far. To commit fraud, a person would have to show up on Election Day with identification bearing the fake name.

The group, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, recently completed a massive registration drive in poor and working-class neighborhoods — which tend to vote Democratic — across 21 states, signing up 1.3 million new voters. Bogus registration cards filled out in the names of cartoon characters and the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys have been targeted for investigation in about 12 states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Missouri, Nevada and South Carolina.

ACORN, which advocates for the underprivileged, has said for days that it was its own quality-control workers who first noticed problem registration cards, flagged them and submitted them to local election officials in every state that is now investigating them.

ACORN hires canvassers from disadvantaged communities, pays them $8 an hour and provides them with a day of training, according to the group's spokesman, Brian Kettenring. He said those who forged registration cards were lazy employees trying to earn money for doing no work, and were fired.

Many states require that every collected registration card be submitted to election officials so that bogus cards or those with incomplete information are vetted by voting professionals, not the groups that collect them.

On Thursday, a senior law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the FBI is investigating whether the organization helped foster voter registration fraud.

The law enforcement official said the agency was looking at results of local inquiries in several states, including a raid on ACORN's office in Las Vegas, for any evidence of a coordinated national effort — something Republicans have been clamoring for in the past few days. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because Justice Department regulations forbid discussing ongoing investigations, particularly so close to an election.

An ACORN spokesman said the group has not been notified that it is being investigated.

McCain, in Wednesday night's debate, also sought to tie Obama to ACORN, saying he gave $832,000 to an ACORN "front outfit organization."

During this year's primary Obama's campaign hired a firm with ties to ACORN, for a get-out-the-vote effort. During Wednesday's debate, Obama said ACORN's latest registration drive "had nothing to do with us. We were not involved."

In addition, Obama and other lawyers in 1995 successfully represented ACORN in a lawsuit against the state of Illinois to gain implementation of the so-called "motor-voter" law, which made voter registration easier.

___

Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.</blockquote>

Fox 59 did post an accurate Fact Check exonerating ACORN on its website - but did they air it?

[Skinview]

<img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/skrat-19385.jpg" align="left" border="0" vspace="3" hspace="6">I was glad to see McCain jump onto the ACORN hysteria bandwagon during the debate. Said something along the lines of it being "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy." Now the corporate media will be forced to fact check it, and will be forced to report how absurd the whole ACORN story line has been.

Of course I won't hold my breath to see if they draw the direct connection between the perpetrators of ACORN hysteria and efforts to purge legitimate voters from the registration rolls.

-Mark

Hey, think of it as equal time for the Republicans. Some left wing nuts spouted loony fraud theories about the 2004 election, so nows its the Republican's turn. ;)

[usmc1]

Hey, think of it as equal time for the Republicans. Some left wing nuts spouted loony fraud theories about the 2004 election, so nows its the Republican's turn. ;)
There are many problems with this statement..

1. It indicates you think retaliatory fraud is OK rather than correcting the problem and punishing the guilty. It's the Republican's turn?

2. If you break it down into a syllogism, you find one of the legs is utterly false. Many state officers and election officials, unbiased observers, investigators and political researchers found "fraud" in both the 2000 and 2004 elections. These people are not loony fraud theorists.

Mark can correct me, but I recall (remember still working on first cup of Joe so not real sharp yet) that investigations led to prosecution in Ohio resulting in a bit of wind change in Ohio politics which is being played out in the courts right now.

3. And, if you're trying to make a point in favor of the republicans, you have done so very poorly---you've equated them with "wing-nuts spouting loony fraud theories".

c'mon, you're brighter than that.

[Skinview]

Their are many problems with this statement..

The statement was fine. It just flew right over your head.

[Fitz1980]

Hey, think of it as equal time for the Republicans. Some left wing nuts spouted loony fraud theories about the 2004 election, so nows its the Republican's turn. ;)

What are you talking about? Are you talking about the 350,000 Ohio voters who were prevented from casting a ballot in 2004. How is that loony, since it's backed up by the facts?
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen