Lingerie Bowl At Caliente Resort

[Wcstflyer]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/superbowl/2009/01/lingerie-bowl-f.html

Somewhat taking a page from the Ponderosa Sun Club in Indiana, the Caliente Resort & Spa in Land O' Lakes Florida will hold its own special event- The Lingerie Bowl- which coincides with the 2009 Super Bowl halftime. Apparently, special charter buses will take up to 5,000 fans to this faux football game from Channelside in Tampa to the clothing optional resort in Pasco county.

If that isn't enough to send one into party animal nirvana, Dennis Rodman (and the Rodmannettes) will invade the Caliente nightclub on Friday, January 30th. Tickets for this Jocks That Rock special event are $250 to see if Dennis can replicate the shenanigans that made him so beloved by the Newport Beach police department. To paraphrase another website, this journey "into the mouth of hell" isn't for the faint of heart.

The only mystery remaining is where's Ron Jeremy? :confused:

[MoonShadow]

I have somewhat of a problem with this type of sex-ploitation. Of course, football is the manly game and very much macho but to have a bowl where women are in lingerie at a nudist resort seems totally contradictory to what a nudist resort is about. Let them have the all-woman football team just play contact football, nude.

[NudeAl]

I have somewhat of a problem with this type of sex-ploitation. Of course, football is the manly game and very much macho but to have a bowl where women are in lingerie at a nudist resort seems totally contradictory to what a nudist resort is about. Let them have the all-woman football team just play contact football, nude.

I also have a problem with this in fact I am ashamed to be associated with this in any way. I am so glad that AANR dropped this resort from the roll of true nude resorts. This does nothing to further the cause and it objectifies and degrades women. It is nothing more than a strip joint. I have no problem with nude football or women playing nude football but this is all about titilation lingere is intended to sexually stimulating so we can see where this is going can't we?

[MoonShadow]

Exactly, NudeAl! I am glad AANR dropped their affiliation with this resort. Yes, we can see where this going.

[Navigator]

If the photos at the top of the article accurately represent the costumes the female football players will wear, it's hardly "lingerie". I'd describe those costumes as more like late 1950's beach bikinis. I think everyone would have to admit that if the female Olympic beach volleyball athletes wore outfits that big they'd be laughed off the volleyball court by the other teams.

But maybe i'm wrong and they'll really play in real lingerie.

Still, if those are the outfits... aren't people here really complaining about nothing more than the use of the word "lingerie" in the advertising?

It looks to me like Caliente has found a way to bring in more money from this promotion than any nudist resort has ever brought in from an event. And I would bet they'll get some new members out of it also.

[MoonShadow]

Navigator, how would they get new members and what is it about this bowl that would attract new members?

[NudeAl]

Yes more money I suppose that's what it's all about. I guess if they had women dancing on tables and grinding on poles and men sticking money in their G-strings we could bring in even more money. If they want to do that fine but drop the pretense here call it what it is and not nudism.

[Wcstflyer]

It looks to me like Caliente has found a way to bring in more money from this promotion than any nudist resort has ever brought in from an event. And I would bet they'll get some new members out of it also.

Even as we speak patrons of the local Hooters in Hillsborough and Pinellas are rushing to Caliente Resort for a membership. Golfer John Daly is also scheduled to arrive.

The question should be "can a bunch of intoxicated twenty-somethings with their brains wired in series find happiness in a luxury clothing optional resort where weekend charges can exceed what they make in a month?" These fans are rushing to Caliente expecting it to be another Mons Venus strip club. If human behavioral psychology follows suite, many of these men will be sorely disappointed to find out that women in our society don't share their enthusiasm for this type of venue.

Is a nudist resort overrun by a huge unisex crowd of males all that much fun? :disappointed:

[Navigator]

Navigator, how would they get new members and what is it about this bowl that would attract new members?

The article claims the event will bring 5000 visitors to Caliente. I suspect they'll get new members simply because some of those visitors will see the place, decide it's for them and join. Most will not. Some won't join but might visit again on weekends or short vacations. Each of those 5000 will be different but most will get their first exposure to a nudist resort and some will like it. If everyone was truthfull, some of them might even say that the real reason they wanted to go to the "lingerie bowl" was to have an excuse to see the inside of a nudist resort.

Our nudist club has an antique car show each summer. Antique cars are not "nudism" but the show brings in a lot of non-nudist visitors....who might be here to see or exhibit the cars, but who also might be here to see the resort...and we sometimes get some new members out of it. We also have a chilly cook-off, attended by nudist and non-nudist entrants, that works exactly the same way.

[Navigator]

NudeAl: No one has suggested the things you're concerned about. And if you don't think keeping our resorts open through the depression that's beginning depends on money like any other business, you should reconsider.

Wcstflyer: If your assumptions about the demographics of the 5000 visitors are accurate then I'd have to agree with you. Are they? In any case...I'd say that a cash addition to Caliente's balance sheet this large will benefit the members and residents of Caliente far more than any image issues will hurt them after this one day event is over.

[Nudeinbama]

I support separation of nudist and sex as well as anyone, but this resort has already lost its credentials with the true nudist world, so they are looking at making some needed money and having some fun. Is that so bad? Just a thought. Even true nudist like to get out and go to places to just have fun with a event sometimes too.:D
nudeinbama

[nudiarist]

I have no problem with the "Lingerie Bowl" per se, it's freedom of expression no matter how sexist and objectifying it may be, but I do have a problem with Caliente continuing to call itself a "nudist" resort. It's clearly an "adult" resort now, letting swingers clubs use its facilities, and having costume events like "Eyes Wide Shut" to recreate a group orgy scene in a movie.

If Caliente keeps "sexing-up" the lifestyle it will subject itself to public scrutiny, which could result in government rules and regulations. All it takes is one overzealous D. A. or sheriff facing re-election.

Someday Caliente is going to be raided on charges of prostitution, or child endangerment, or on some other real or trumped-up charges, and then all nudist resorts will become suspect after working so hard to gain acceptance over the past half-century.

The test is to ask yourself if you would take your children to Caliente. If you are uncomfortable with that, then Caliente is no longer a nudist or naturist resort.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Journeyman]

First of all, Caliente is no longer a nudist resort , rubber-stamped by the AANR or any other "official" naturist organizations.

Therefore, if it wants to have lingerie parties or nude Star Trek parties, or whatever, it does not have to answer to any card-carrying nudists. It is not billing itself as a nudist resort that is family friendly anymore, anyway, so why is it anyone's business in these forums?

I visited Caliente in May 2008 for almost a week, met the 'infamous' Angye Fox and all the other major players at Caliente, and believe me, Caliente is not the Sodom and Gomorrah that some of you seem to think it is. In fact, IMHO, it can be downright boring.

I was there to write a story about the place for naturist magazines, but when my editors found out that Caliente was no longer affiliated with the AANR, I could not sell the story. So, while Caliente wins in some respects, it loses in others.

[nudiarist]

Journeyman is right when he says that Caliente no longer uses the word "nudist" on its web site - it uses "clothing-optional" instead. It appears to be reporters who keep calling it a nudist resort.

In this article http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jan/12/pasco-clothing-optional-resort-hers-well-known-fac/news-metro/ PR rep Angye Fox does keep referring to Caliente as "clothing-optional", but the writer misses the point and keeps making comparisons to nudist resorts.

I'm sure Caliente is not "Sodom and Gomorrah", but with Fox courting swingers groups and booking events like the Lingerie Bowl, it's at least pushing a more adult image to attract people looking for something hotter than a traditional nudist venue.

Caliente's online FAQ contains the following "unspoken rule": "Overt sexual behavior or the appearance of such behavior is unacceptable at Caliente Resorts. Behavior "never needing an apology" is the norm."

Well, Fox is certainly trying very hard to create the appearance of overt sexual behavior with this sort of booking. You can speak to swingers groups, book Playboy-like events like the Lingerie Bowl, rent facilities to swinger groups, host costume parties where people dress up like orgy participants, but as long as you deny that these are sexed-up events, and you offer no apologies, then its acceptable.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Running Bear]

I technically agree that there is a line on naturist: sex. I also accept that sex sells. Is there anything wrong in using sex to sell naturism any more than using rusty-cars to sell naturism?
We are sexual beings and the pleasing image of a naked girl used to sell a car is not out of place. Do naturists have a problem with an Anne-Summers party, a strip club or 'naked calendars' ?

How about an 'elf warning about nudity used to sell :-)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9313/nakedelfke6.jpg


(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9313/nakedelfke6.jpg)

[nudiarist]

I technically agree that there is a line on naturist: sex. I also accept that sex sells. Is there anything wrong in using sex to sell naturism any more than using rusty-cars to sell naturism?
We are sexual beings and the pleasing image of a naked girl used to sell a car is not out of place. Do naturists have a problem with an Anne-Summers party, a strip club or 'naked calendars' ?

That's the problem now - the public perception of nudism is that it's all about sex.

You want topfree equality, you want designated clothing-optional beaches and parks on public land, you want nudity to be decriminalized, you want more general public acceptance of nudity? You want a place where you can take the entire family? Well, all of that is out the window if places like Caliente succeed in convincing the public that social nudity is all about the sex.

Again, I don't have any problem with Caliente marketing itself as an adult resort. I don't have any problem with people who participate in the swingers lifestyle. I don't care what goes on sexually between consenting adults. The problem here is that news reports keep referring to Caliente as a nudist resort, and since Angye Fox is so good at her job, the general public is being fed a false image of nudism.

I agree that nudism needs to be marketed better. Caliente stole the ball and is scoring points. One one hand the Naturist Action Committee is fighting for the right to be nude on public land because it's natural and wholesome, and on the other hand some resorts are hosting porn stars in Nudes a Poppin' and the Lingerie Bowl. Which is likely to get the most press?

Sex does sell, but at the same time there is an increasing trend in society to protect children from predators, sexual imagery and activity, and there are prosecutions all over the country of children who send nude photos of themselves with their cell phones. We are actually making felons out of children using the laws which were written to protect them. Not too long ago, grandparents living in a Florida nudist resort were denied visitation rights because the courts decided their lifestyle was unacceptable to the child.

I've said it over and over again, that if you take children out of nudism and naturism, the lifestyle will die and be replaced by hedonism. It's happening now.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[nudiarist]

This is what I mean by bad publicity for nudism.

"But people in Tampa weren't too happy about the idea of models-turned-football players facing off in their underwear on Fig Street.

"I don't think the city is going to allow this, I hope they don't," Tampa City Councilman Charlie Miranda told MyFOXTampaBay.com.

Instead, the event will be held at what would seem to be a much more appropriate location: a Pasco County nudist resort."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480427,00.html

The tone of the article indicates that the public feels the Lingerie Bowl is not family friendly, so let's banish it to a nudist resort where morality is already low. AANR and TNS should be scrambling to disassociate naturism from this activity.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[MoonShadow]

We are sexual beings and the pleasing image of a naked girl used to sell a car is not out of place. Do naturists have a problem with an Anne-Summers party, a strip club or 'naked calendars' ?

How about an 'elf warning about nudity used to sell :-)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9313/nakedelfke6.jpg


(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9313/nakedelfke6.jpg)

Yes, we are sexual beings but there is a place where it works and where it doesn't and nudist resorts is not where you want sex selling your resort. Nudiarist points out the why very nicely.

And I ask you why would I want to see a pleasing naked woman selling me a car?

[Wcstflyer]

This is what I mean by bad publicity for nudism.

"But people in Tampa weren't too happy about the idea of models-turned-football players facing off in their underwear on Fig Street.

"I don't think the city is going to allow this, I hope they don't," Tampa City Councilman Charlie Miranda told MyFOXTampaBay.com.

Instead, the event will be held at what would seem to be a much more appropriate location: a Pasco County nudist resort."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480427,00.html

The tone of the article indicates that the public feels the Lingerie Bowl is not family friendly, so let's banish it to a nudist resort where morality is already low. AANR and TNS should be scrambling to disassociate naturism from this activity.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com


Charlie Miranda gave it a good shot but it hasn't been the same since Rhonda Storms packed up her red lipstick and headed to Tallahassee. Now those famous duals between Rhonda and strip club owner Joe Redner are but a fond memory.

Nudiarist, you bring in some great points however I am somewhat of a pragmatist. Caliente was originally a nudist resort with a strict adherence to that lifestyle. As time wore on the original management (i.e. Chuck Foster, Bill Baldwin, etc.) recognized that a resort built on the grandeur and scale of Caliente had to accommodate a greater percentage of people, specifically reluctant wives and girlfriends, who wished to dip their figurative toe slowly into nudism; hence the clothing-optional moniker. Nevertheless on any weekend by the lagoon pool or on the upper terrace you will see a sea of happy nudists.

In a time not long-long ago a shy demure woman named Angela Smits went into a phone booth and emerged Angye Fox. Beyond her scholastic credentials, Angye transformed herself into a veritable marketing dynamo using unorthodox methods and a complete lack of inhibition. She became a local Tampa personality in part by going on 620 WDAE "The Sports Animal" and demonstrating breast painting, in the end presenting hosts Ron and Ian something that vaguely approximated the flag of Japan. That takes guts.

I know I'm going to get in considerable hot water by attempting to contrast the AANR agenda with the Caliente marketing philosophy. AANR attempts to promote the early 20th century FKK type naturism as exemplified by purity of body and thought, unencumbered by body image or social status. Each month we all get The Bulletin, every issue filled with admirable nudist rights legal concerns and so forth. In order to demonstrate this body acceptance the AANR Bulletin has pages of nude Carnie Wilsons- at her peak weight- and men who could have doubled for the late Orson Welles.

In a resort where there are hundred of employees from service workers to teams of landscapers to tend the 125 well-manicured acres one cannot market such an expensive property the way a rustic "Bug Holler Nudist Resort" could. Caliente must be shown to be a Floridian version of Hedonism II or Sandals where fun (and sexy) things happen on a monthly basis. To that end the Caliente ads show models that appear more like Playboy centerfolds and porn stud Rocco Siffredi. That sells special event tickets and full memberships.

[Running Bear]

And I ask you why would I want to see a pleasing naked woman selling me a car?
I was speaking gender specific and of course I mean a man draped on a car or a male elf would have been just as effective. I do apologise for that omission.

I concede that sex needs to be separated from naturism but question if sexual advertising is sex? Are we so hung up about using sex to sell that we become prudes? Do we fear the textiles so much that we are not honest to ourselves? Sexual advertising, knicker-football and such are not really sleazy but like the WNBR a bit of fun. I have no problem with porn stars at nudes-a-poppin events since surely not all porn stars are bad people. You seem to forget that sex workers can also be naturists. The claim that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world shows that everybody deserves respect. H and E , UK naturist magazine, has a load of pretty females in because pretty females sells papers. They still play a part as a naturist magazine but need to make money; who can deny them that?

[nudiarist]

Charlie Miranda gave it a good shot but it hasn't been the same since Rhonda Storms packed up her red lipstick and headed to Tallahassee. Now those famous duals between Rhonda and strip club owner Joe Redner are but a fond memory.

Nudiarist, you bring in some great points however I am somewhat of a pragmatist. Caliente was originally a nudist resort with a strict adherence to that lifestyle. As time wore on the original management (i.e. Chuck Foster, Bill Baldwin, etc.) recognized that a resort built on the grandeur and scale of Caliente had to accommodate a greater percentage of people, specifically reluctant wives and girlfriends, who wished to dip their figurative toe slowly into nudism; hence the clothing-optional moniker. Nevertheless on any weekend by the lagoon pool or on the upper terrace you will see a sea of happy nudists.

In a time not long-long ago a shy demure woman named Angela Smits went into a phone booth and emerged Angye Fox. Beyond her scholastic credentials, Angye transformed herself into a veritable marketing dynamo using unorthodox methods and a complete lack of inhibition. She became a local Tampa personality in part by going on 620 WDAE "The Sports Animal" and demonstrating breast painting, in the end presenting hosts Ron and Ian something that vaguely approximated the flag of Japan. That takes guts.

I know I'm going to get in considerable hot water by attempting to contrast the AANR agenda with the Caliente marketing philosophy. AANR attempts to promote the early 20th century FKK type naturism as exemplified by purity of body and thought, unencumbered by body image or social status. Each month we all get The Bulletin, every issue filled with admirable nudist rights legal concerns and so forth. In order to demonstrate this body acceptance the AANR Bulletin has pages of nude Carnie Wilsons- at her peak weight- and men who could have doubled for the late Orson Welles.

In a resort where there are hundred of employees from service workers to teams of landscapers to tend the 125 well-manicured acres one cannot market such an expensive property the way a rustic "Bug Holler Nudist Resort" could. Caliente must be shown to be a Floridian version of Hedonism II or Sandals where fun (and sexy) things happen on a monthly basis. To that end the Caliente ads show models that appear more like Playboy centerfolds and porn stud Rocco Siffredi. That sells special event tickets and full memberships.

Well, that's all fine and good. I said before that I had no problem with Caliente doing whatever it pleased to build up its business, EXCEPT maintain any association with nudism. Although it now uses the "clothing optional" terminology, the general public sees no difference. Clothes-free, nudism, naturism, naked, nude - they generally all mean the same thing with subtle differences. As far as I can see, Caliente does nothing to disassociate itself from nudism, aside from dumping AANR, and nobody really cares about that.

And I don't think that Angye Fox has any more "guts" than anyone else in the adult entertainment industry. And yes, make no mistake, Caliente is dealing in adult entertainment, just look at their web site. Money is a powerful tool for wiping away inhibitions. Strippers, porn stars, prostitutes all have the same level of "guts" in the sense that they are willing to accept money for their services. I am a libertarian when it comes to sex workers, more power to them, but what they do is unrelated to nudism except that they are nude when doing their jobs.

Yes, AANR and TNS need to be more pragmatic in promoting the lifestyle, but naturism must maintain it's philosophy that the human body is natural and wholesome, and that simple nudity does not always equate sexual behavior. There is always a market for sex, our society proves that every day, but nudism and naturism allow people a chance to step back from objectification and sexualization.

There's no reason why a couple cannot go to Caliente for a romantic and sexually-charged vacation, and later take the kids and grandma to a more traditional family-friendly venue. Just don't call them both "nudist".

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Cheri]

It saddens me to see that some places are less than G-rated/family-friendly to just attract the almighty dollar. I will never promote any event at a nudist venue that is not in line with nudism should be portrayed.
Cheri

[MoonShadow]

Hats off to you, Cheri!!! Glad to hear it too! I wouldn't either. The lifestyle is too important of one to live freely.

[tiger79]

Maybe Caliente Tampa should never have been developed in the first place. But the reality is that it's there, and it has a huge overhead. Now, if too few traditional nudists and AANR members have visited in the past, what are Caliente's management to do? Should they ask the residents for more money to cover the running costs? Or should they look for new business? Or should they just walk away from the problem?

From what I can see of the posts in this thread, only one poster - Journeyman - has actually confessed to spending time there, and he sounded rather underwhelmed by the experience.

Caliente is now marketing itself very firmly as a "clothing optional" resort, not a nudist resort. But it is a "resort" in the true sense of the word, and it will attract the younger people who don't want to go to a mom-and-pop log cabin place. These are the people who may become tomorrow's nudists, so don't knock them. Times change, but the only way to keep nudism available as an option for the future is to create opportunities today for people to take their clothes off in comfortable surroundings.

[nudiarist]

Here's yet another headline referring to Caliente as a "nudist resort" - http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=128914&provider=rss

This has the potential to be very damaging to nudism and naturism unless AANR and TNS begin some sort of PR campaign to educate the public.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Fitz1980]

From what I can see of the posts in this thread, only one poster - Journeyman - has actually confessed to spending time there, and he sounded rather underwhelmed by the experience.


I've been there as well. My friend Michele and her mother are preferred members at the place. I think that Michele used to be employed there as well when it first opened. I've been there twice as her guest and we had fun. It was a nice place. A bit pricey for me and the option to get facials and body wraps doesn't exactly appeal to me.


Actually I think that the second time I was there (about 2 years ago) she was telling me about how the resort was changing it's policy from being nudist to being clothing optional. I didn't exactly understand the distinction or that it was such a big issue until I started reading about the places controversy. In fact nudist vs clothing optional is still a pretty loose distinction in general. Even if a place has a policy of "nudity required" (even if it's just nudity required in the pool/hot tub) they still have lots of situations where the let that slide. They will usually let newbies and people who are guests of regulars slide as they don't want to scare off new people or those who are friends of good members. Women guests can pretty much always get away with toplessness as it could well be that time of the month of them and no one wants to open that can of worms.

[Running Bear]

It saddens me to see that some places are less than G-rated/family-friendly to just attract the almighty dollar. I will never promote any event at a nudist venue that is not in line with nudism should be portrayed.
Cheri
Would you promote the WNBR by holding a post ride BBQ? - agressive in upsetting textiles?
Clubs used to have beauty pageants in the past (maybe still in USA?) - Exhibitionist or pride in beauty?
Clubs have fancy-dress parties. Kinky clothes prevail!
The York Maze in England was promoted as a naturist event and textiles were welcome so is this exhibitionist?
Body painting: is this exhibitionist or appropriate fun?
Many consider the above do not represent true naturism so I am pushing for that line definition? I do not consider we should go down the sleazy avenue but what is sleazy? It is only a matter of grey?

[nudiarist]

Would you promote the WNBR by holding a post ride BBQ? - agressive in upsetting textiles?
Clubs used to have beauty pageants in the past (maybe still in USA?) - Exhibitionist or pride in beauty?
Clubs have fancy-dress parties. Kinky clothes prevail!
The York Maze in England was promoted as a naturist event and textiles were welcome so is this exhibitionist?
Body painting: is this exhibitionist or appropriate fun?
Many consider the above do not represent true naturism so I am pushing for that line definition? I do not consider we should go down the sleazy avenue but what is sleazy? It is only a matter of grey?

I think I'd feel better about the "Lingerie Bowl" if the participants were completely nude. At the White Thorn volleyball tournaments, nudity is a requirement. That's the whole point of a nudist resort, isn't it?

Once a club decides to go "clothing optional", the venue can become a haven for voyeurs. The "Lingerie Bowl" is a voyeuristic event, designed as eye candy for men, with the only intent being to titillate.

The whole argument between "clothing-optional" and mandatory nudity is ongoing. In some instances it works, such as at the Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs. In others, such as in the topless Las Vegas pools, the policy only attracts voyeurs.

As for beauty pageants, the whole idea has basically fallen by the wayside. Don't forget that nudism's "golden age" occured during the height of pageant popularity. The Miss America Pageant was one of the highest rated events on television, and now it has trouble finding even basic cable stations to carry the event. Child beauty pageants are raising the most eyebrows these days, starting the objectification of women at a very early age.

As for the maze in England, many similar events have taken place elsewhere. I think it was a museum in Germany which granted free admission to attendees who browsed a gallery show in the nude. A New York group sponsors clothing-optional dinners, and river cruises. Many beaches are clothing-optional.

As for body painting, it's an activity that people of all ages can enjoy. At a nudist resort, everyone is naked anyway, so a little skin decoration can be fun. Many participants in the World Naked Bike Ride paint their bodies, and from all the photos I've seen, there's no overtly sexual element to the activity. In the annual Bare to Breakers run in San Francisco, people get a lot more outrageous in their costumes and body painting, and some perhaps cross a line when it comes to tastefulness.

I don't know about the "kinky clothes" at nudist resorts - I haven't seen it personally.

I'm sure people do get a little outrageous at times at nudist resorts and events. I've been to many textile events from dorm parties to New Year's Eve celebrations where people really get out of hand. People definitely like to have fun, and nudism should be a blast. Nobody is denying that.

The issue here is whether of not what Caliente is doing should be called nudism. Even the "clothing-optional" term does not create enough distance.

So here is the test to apply - would you take your kids to Caliente to see the "Lingerie Bowl"? Would you take your kids to Ponderosa Sun Club for "Nudes a Poppin"? I doubt it.

Would you take your kids to see The World Naked Bike Ride? Probably, I would think. Would you take your spouse and kids to a Travelites event, or a West Penn Naturist event, or to any resort affiliated with AANR or TNS? Again, I think you would.

Nudism has to be for people of all ages, or it's not nudism. As I said, more power to Caliente for being so successful in promoting its resort, let freedom ring, but there needs to be a distinction made, and thus far the general public is getting the message that what Angye Fox is peddling is nudism.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Journeyman]

...The whole argument between "clothing-optional" and mandatory nudity is ongoing. In some instances it works, such as at the Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs. In others, such as in the topless Las Vegas pools, the policy only attracts voyeurs.

(snip) ...The issue here is whether of not what Caliente is doing should be called nudism. Even the "clothing-optional" term does not create enough distance.

So here is the test to apply - would you take your kids to Caliente to see the "Lingerie Bowl"? Would you take your kids to Ponderosa Sun Club for "Nudes a Poppin"? I doubt it.

(snip)... As I said, more power to Caliente for being so successful in promoting its resort, let freedom ring, but there needs to be a distinction made, and thus far the general public is getting the message that what Angye Fox is peddling is nudism.
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

Nudiarist, with all due respect to your continuing argument: a cursory glance of your blog and your nudist "picture of the day" might lead the naive and unsuspecting to believe that nudists are primarily young or youngish white females with very good bodies. Are you not also appealing to a group of people who are not interested in looking at pictures of people (including men) who are not in tip-top shape, or above the age of 30? I have been going to nude beaches and resorts around the world for almost 30 years, and the women in your pictures of the day are the exceptional ones, not the rule.

Caliente is a business. As others have stated, it is big bucks and many have invested heavily in very expensive homes and property there. Somehow the place has to make money to give the investors a return, and so they have dropped the nudist moniker and the AANR has dropped them. So be it. It's like the two Hedonism resorts in Jamaica -- they cater to a crowd interested in letting inhibitions go once they're on vacation. Fine; again, it's a business, and Hedonism is not connected with any official nudist organization. (Oddly enough, the same family that owns Hedonism also owns Club Lido Braco - and other SuperClubs - but Braco does have a nude side to the resort, and it's *not* marketed at all salaciously like Hedonism is.)

Finally, Angye Fox is well aware of the distinction between traditional nudists/naturist organizations and the crowd who knows nothing about being nude in public. She respects traditional naturism and card-carrying nudists. She picked me up at the airport when I arrived and drove me to Caliente: we had a very long talk about this whole topic and the fine line that it is. Thankfully, I was left to form my own impressions of Caliente. As mentioned, I did not witness any overt sexual activity --- not even the telltale exhibitionist with an erection anywhere over three days -- and textile discos in any major city would have more going on in them than what happens at Caliente. No one knew I was a journalist, so I was free to talk to virtually any staff person or guest. Signs warning against public sexual displays are everywhere. Children aren't encouraged to come here, just like the couples only policy of Hedonism. There's nothing at either place for kids to do.

I don't think Angye is pedding nudism at all. I think she's peddling a "lifestyle" of daring to bare, of wearing sexy attire, of "light" voyeurism and exhibitionism. My gosh, compared to the two Hedonism resorts, Caliente is virtually puritanical. I don't think you're giving people enough credit for knowing that nudism is *not* Caliente or Hedonism. Most people are savvy to sexually-suggestive marketing. They're either interested or turned off by this. Caliente and Hedonism are offshoots of a naturist-type experience that is not for everyone.

Perhaps it's time for family-friendly nudist campgrounds and resorts in North America to spend a bit of money on promotion, public and media relations and marketing. Then, like it is already in France and Spain, the general public will know what a naturist campground or resort is all about. And in those two countries, at least, naturism is a natural thing to most of the public, as it should be.

[nudiarist]

Nudiarist, with all due respect to your continuing argument: a cursory glance of your blog and your nudist "picture of the day" might lead the naive and unsuspecting to believe that nudists are primarily young or youngish white females with very good bodies. Are you not also appealing to a group of people who are not interested in looking at pictures of people (including men) who are not in tip-top shape, or above the age of 30? I have been going to nude beaches and resorts around the world for almost 30 years, and the women in your pictures of the day are the exceptional ones, not the rule.

Caliente is a business. As others have stated, it is big bucks and many have invested heavily in very expensive homes and property there. Somehow the place has to make money to give the investors a return, and so they have dropped the nudist moniker and the AANR has dropped them. So be it. It's like the two Hedonism resorts in Jamaica -- they cater to a crowd interested in letting inhibitions go once they're on vacation. Fine; again, it's a business, and Hedonism is not connected with any official nudist organization. (Oddly enough, the same family that owns Hedonism also owns Club Lido Braco - and other SuperClubs - but Braco does have a nude side to the resort, and it's *not* marketed at all salaciously like Hedonism is.)

Finally, Angye Fox is well aware of the distinction between traditional nudists/naturist organizations and the crowd who knows nothing about being nude in public. She respects traditional naturism and card-carrying nudists. She picked me up at the airport when I arrived and drove me to Caliente: we had a very long talk about this whole topic and the fine line that it is. Thankfully, I was left to form my own impressions of Caliente. As mentioned, I did not witness any overt sexual activity --- not even the telltale exhibitionist with an erection anywhere over three days -- and textile discos in any major city would have more going on in them than what happens at Caliente. No one knew I was a journalist, so I was free to talk to virtually any staff person or guest. Signs warning against public sexual displays are everywhere. Children aren't encouraged to come here, just like the couples only policy of Hedonism. There's nothing at either place for kids to do.

I don't think Angye is pedding nudism at all. I think she's peddling a "lifestyle" of daring to bare, of wearing sexy attire, of "light" voyeurism and exhibitionism. My gosh, compared to the two Hedonism resorts, Caliente is virtually puritanical. I don't think you're giving people enough credit for knowing that nudism is *not* Caliente or Hedonism. Most people are savvy to sexually-suggestive marketing. They're either interested or turned off by this. Caliente and Hedonism are offshoots of a naturist-type experience that is not for everyone.

Perhaps it's time for family-friendly nudist campgrounds and resorts in North America to spend a bit of money on promotion, public and media relations and marketing. Then, like it is already in France and Spain, the general public will know what a naturist campground or resort is all about. And in those two countries, at least, naturism is a natural thing to most of the public, as it should be.

Perhaps if you give more than a "cursory glance" at my blog you will see all body types. The photos I use are no different than what Clothesfree.com offers to paying members. It's also completely beside the point and a poor attempt at a cheap shot.

Perhaps you are having some problems in understanding what I have said repeatedly - I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHAT ANGYE FOX AND CALIENTE ARE DOING. It's a free country and they are entitled to their business success.

The problem is in PUBLIC PERCEPTION. News stories continue to refer to Caliente as a "nudist resort". This is inaccurate. It is a clothing-optional resort, as Angye Fox has stated in interviews, and as advertised on their web site.

If people want public lands set aside for nude recreation, this false perception needs to be addressed, otherwise whenever there is a public hearing for a nude beach, or a proposed anti-nudity ordinance, opponents can point to Caliente, which markets to swingers groups, hosts the "Lingerie Bowl", and has costume parties based on orgy scenes in movies.

And most people are not "savvy" to sexually suggestive marketing when it comes to nudism vs. clothing-optional. Perhaps the people who go to the resorts are in the know, but I'm talking about 99.9% of the population who has never been to any of these type of resorts. Most people equate nudity with sex, birth, bathing, hospitals, and art museums, and wouldn't ever entertain the notion of social nudism. Nudity is believed to be shameful, dirty, exhibitionist, dangerous, and is, in fact, quite illegal in public just about everywhere.

I'm sure Caliente is a wonderful place, it looks beautiful, and Angye Fox is obviously doing a good job. But if it's not family-friendly, it's not nudism or naturism.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[nudiarist]

I don't know if anyone pointed out this article on Hedonism II:

http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/hedonism-ii-the-cave-is-for-blowjobs/5735#When:17:06:00Z

I hope that Caliente is not planning to go down that road. As Journey man has pointed out, Caliente is a big business with lots of mouths to feed. With the continuing pornification of America, can they resist catering even more to the swingers crowd?

Time will tell.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[nickuma09]

Caliente will do whatever it needs to in order to stay afloat...Hedonism as a brand has been profitable (whatever else you want to call it)..if some daring entrepreneur wants to create a Hedonism that is stateside, they will find an audience.

As to the larger issue, if Caliente's management says clothing optional and does not advertise as a nudist resort, then I don't think they have much other responsibility--journalists have a responsibility to report things accurately (which it seems they don't) and AANR and TNS have to do more press to clarify distinctions.

[nudiarist]

More bad publicity for nudism. Apparently some of the women who are scheduled to participate in the "Lingerie Bowl" at Caliente are upset about playing in front of nude people.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/wingman/2009/01/catfight-brewin.html

The Jan. 31 is set for Caliente, a clothing-optional resort in Pasco County after failing to find an acceptable location in Tampa. But Lingerie Bowl quarterback Reby Sky of Temple Terrace and an agent who represents some Tampa Breeze players isn't happy.

"I don't have anything against the lifestyle," Sky said, referring to the shift to a nudist resort. "But we as players were having a hard enough time dealing with and defending against the negative stigmas and stereotypes associated with the sport and playing attire before it was announced that we would be playing at a nudist resort."

http://blogs.tampabay.com/superbowl/2009/01/more-problems-f.html

Ricker Yankowski, who represents six players through his St. Petersburg agency Models Without Attitude, said Horizon Productions failed to pay the players Dec. 3 as promised and that the company now says it will pay $1,000 to each player on game day -- about 70 percent less than the players thought they would get. He said at least three of his players have quit, and more resignations may happen.

"I never thought it would come down to this," Yankowski said. "Taking these girls away from home and family and work, then paying them a lot less, then making them play at a nudist resort, is below moral."

This could just be another ploy to keep the story in the media, but whatever the reason, Caliente is still being referred to as a nudist resort when it is really a clothing-optional adults only venue.

And sexed-up babes wearing lingerie, performing only for the pleasure of men, denouncing the nudist lifestyle is about as bad as it gets.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[nudiarist]

The Sporting News has now picked up the story: http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/16626/the_drama_never_ends_for_the_lingerie_bowl

Then remaining members complained about the venue, a "clothing-optional resort" north of Tampa where guests may or may not decide to wear pants as they wander the grounds playing volleyball, playing volleyball, swimming, or playing volleyball in the pool.

(This is all there is to do at nudist resorts. I know this from sad, unforgettable experience, having gone one weekend to a nudist resort as a dare taken out of boredom. You will never, ever erase the image of a couple in their 60’s hosing off their RV, each wearing nothing but flip-flops and a fine coating of benign melanomas earned from years of exposure to the sun.)

This choice of venue offends the fine sensibilities of some of the Lingerie Bowl players, who oppose playing the game at a place where everyone carries a towel around for a very good reason.

"I don't have anything against the lifestyle," Sky said, referring to the shift to a nudist resort. "But we as players were having a hard enough time dealing with and defending against the negative stigmas and stereotypes associated with the sport and playing attire before it was announced that we would be playing at a nudist resort."

This quote comes from quarterback Reby Sky, who posed nude for Playboy once. If your irony alarm is flashing double-time right now, consider this: Reby Sky was paid good money to take her clothes off, while nudists pay to have someplace where they can be naked. It's not the nudity she objects to; it's being on the showfloor with what she considers inferior goods, and our inner economist has no problem with this snappy calculation on her part.

Does anyone really want to argue that any of this is good for nudism and naturism?

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Wcstflyer]

There is also a subsequent article in the St. Petersburg Times: http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article968878.ece

Reby Sky, the quarterback for the Tampa Bay Breeze who's real name is Rebecca Reyes and a former Playboy model told the St. Petersburg Times that it was difficult enough to fight stereotypes and negative stigmas associated with playing in her undies. The 5'5" Temple Terrace resident did not go into the intricacies of throwing a football with large saline implants, or elaborate on her lack of success hitting receivers on crossing patterns. The petite quarterback reportedly throws the pigskin like a loaf of bread with a shot put-like technique, necessitating an offense consisting mostly of a ground game mixed with occasional dump-off passes. Like their NFL counterparts the Buccaneers across town, the Tampa Bay Breeze lack a real vertical offense, due largely to Reby's lack of arm strength and accuracy. In the interview however, Sky (Reyes) chose to focus on the sexism and indignities inherent in the LFL- Lingerie Football League.

Whatever physical limitations Reby may have to play football, the former Playboy model is certainly not lacking in a scrappy feisty and fearless personality. The girl can mix it up with the best frat boys: http://baynews9.com/content/36/2007/12/27/312977.html

In a statement by Horizon Productions, the football game will go on with new players who want to show "teamwork, preparation and attitude." I wonder if that would work with Terrell Owens and the Dallas Cowboys?

[MoonShadow]

I am with you, nudiarist. Caliente can do whatever they want to do but NOT in the name of nudism/naturism when using sex-ploitation to bring in monies and/or members. You can call yourself clothing option if you choose but NOT as a nudist venue. It is the wrong message and the message those of us who truly are nudists and into the nudist lifestyle continue to beat back time and time again.

[Fitz1980]

"I don't have anything against the lifestyle," Sky said, referring to the shift to a nudist resort. "But we as players were having a hard enough time dealing with and defending against the negative stigmas and stereotypes associated with the sport and playing attire before it was announced that we would be playing at a nudist resort."

I believe that they call this irony. She's worried about the stigma that could come to her over participating at an event at a "nudist club" and nudists are worried about the stigma of a bunch of tarted up playboy models putting on a T&A show and associating it with nudism.

[NudeAl]

I believe that they call this irony. She's worried about the stigma that could come to her over participating at an event at a "nudist club" and nudists are worried about the stigma of a bunch of tarted up playboy models putting on a T&A show and associating it with nudism.

LOL! Excellent post!

[TVNude]

I'm going to agree with Nudiarist in his opinion that Caliente is doing a disservice to the nudism cause. His comment about an over zealous DA or sheriff is unfortunately only too true these days.

As to comments that some entrepreneur will create a Hedonism-style resort in the US, I think that may be over optimistic. Hedonism succeeds in a country where tourism is probably the number one business. Second, it caters to foreigners. When you are trying to feed your citizens, you may look the other way and accept situations that you otherwise would not. A good example is Eden Bay, of course now Caliente Caribe. The Dominican Republic is a devoutly Catholic country and not one where nudity is normally accepted. Eden Bay/ CC provides good jobs to about 70 locals. This was one of the reasons I heard the local priest blessed the resort when it first opened. Caliente also walks a very fine line down there as the only resort of its kind on the island; any reports of inappropriate behavior might be cause for the government to shut it down. The US, on the other hand, is not a country where tourism is the prime business (I would suspect health care is, but that is another story). All someone would need is one DA out to become a state attorney general and you have the makings of a "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" scenario.

I'm not against sex, but don't call it nudism.

[Running Bear]

I believe that they call this irony. She's worried about the stigma that could come to her over participating at an event at a "nudist club" and nudists are worried about the stigma of a bunch of tarted up playboy models putting on a T&A show and associating it with nudism.
Exactly, are we so insecure in our beliefs that we fear we may catch the T&A label or can we just accept the stereotypes. I fear associating with textiles in case I catch that dreaded disease of clothing compulsive disorder but I still associate with them. There is no way that they would consider I am a textile simply because I invite them to my club. For T&A you can also read, gay, transgender, sexual tourist, star trek fans :-)
More interesting is the publicity naturism receives and an opportunity to comment. There is an idea that there is no such thing as bad publicity and although I do not fully agree with it I see where it comes from.
Do you not consider that all this publicity is exactly what the organisers wanted :-) I congratulate them on a PR job well done. Perhaps we could learn a thing or two.

[Wcstflyer]

Not to unduly prolong this thread but: http://www.calienteresorts.com/news/tampa/ Here is the January 20th Caliente update sure to raise Cheri Alexander's systolic and empty the wallets of unwary alcohol-fueled males in short order.

Let's total up a partial list of the menu items. First on the docket is a two hundred and fifty dollar V.I.P. Dennis Rodman party where a guest can add up the body piercings of the former NBA star while hoping to get up close and personal with any dancers brought in to the nightclub. On January 31st, a hundred and fifty dollar Platinum Admission will bring forth a cornucopia of treats, from a seat at Lingerie Bowl IV to Lingerie Bowl player autographs and the all-important official Concussion after-party.

The fun doesn't stop there! On Super Bowl Sunday, Caliente Resort & Spa will shift into high gear with the Cardinals/Steelers on jumbo plasma screens and Naked Cheerleaders at halftime. Only when the "funsters" get in their cars and head down Land O' Lakes Blvd. will they realize that their Caliente beer bar tab was equivalent to a case of vintage Premier Grand Cru Bordeaux. :(

Hmmm...perhaps it's time to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/clip_joint

[nimrod]

To anyone that approves of using sex to sell a nudist resort. Would you put your child in a school that used sex to sell itself?

[Fitz1980]

I am with you, nudiarist. Caliente can do whatever they want to do but NOT in the name of nudism/naturism when using sex-ploitation to bring in monies and/or members. You can call yourself clothing option if you choose but NOT as a nudist venue. It is the wrong message and the message those of us who truly are nudists and into the nudist lifestyle continue to beat back time and time again.

I agree with you on what nudism is and is not but at the end of the day all we can really do is whatever we can to spread the word from our side. AANR & TNS do not hold a trademark on the words nudist or naturist so anyone who wants to can use them. Much like how white supremacist groups and "snake handlers" can call themselves "Christian" over the objections of mainstream denominations.

I'm going to agree with Nudiarist in his opinion that Caliente is doing a disservice to the nudism cause. His comment about an over zealous DA or sheriff is unfortunately only too true these days.

As to comments that some entrepreneur will create a Hedonism-style resort in the US, I think that may be over optimistic. Hedonism succeeds in a country where tourism is probably the number one business. Second, it caters to foreigners. When you are trying to feed your citizens, you may look the other way and accept situations that you otherwise would not. A good example is Eden Bay, of course now Caliente Caribe. The Dominican Republic is a devoutly Catholic country and not one where nudity is normally accepted. Eden Bay/ CC provides good jobs to about 70 locals. This was one of the reasons I heard the local priest blessed the resort when it first opened. Caliente also walks a very fine line down there as the only resort of its kind on the island; any reports of inappropriate behavior might be cause for the government to shut it down. The US, on the other hand, is not a country where tourism is the prime business (I would suspect health care is, but that is another story). All someone would need is one DA out to become a state attorney general and you have the makings of a "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" scenario.

I'm not against sex, but don't call it nudism.

There are lots of swingers clubs in the USA as well. None are as well appointed as Hedo but there's at least one in every major city. You won't see a billboard for them, but they're around. Most are in nondescript buildings and skate by because they don't present a big enough target for "moral crusaders" to do much about.

Not to unduly prolong this thread but: http://www.calienteresorts.com/news/tampa/ Here is the January 20th Caliente update sure to raise Cheri Alexander's systolic and empty the wallets of unwary alcohol-fueled males in short order.

Let's total up a partial list of the menu items. First on the docket is a two hundred and fifty dollar V.I.P. Dennis Rodman party where a guest can add up the body piercings of the former NBA star while hoping to get up close and personal with any dancers brought in to the nightclub. On January 31st, a hundred and fifty dollar Platinum Admission will bring forth a cornucopia of treats, from a seat at Lingerie Bowl IV to Lingerie Bowl player autographs and the all-important official Concussion after-party.

The fun doesn't stop there! On Super Bowl Sunday, Caliente Resort & Spa will shift into high gear with the Cardinals/Steelers on jumbo plasma screens and Naked Cheerleaders at halftime. Only when the "funsters" get in their cars and head down Land O' Lakes Blvd. will they realize that their Caliente beer bar tab was equivalent to a case of vintage Premier Grand Cru Bordeaux. :(

Hmmm...perhaps it's time to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/clip_joint

Interesting article on clip joints. I had heard of such scams but never by that name. I don't see Caliente as being that exactly. Clip joints promise things that they never had any intention of delivering and than squeeze customers into overpaying for stuff rather than risk the embarrassment of publicly fighting it. Seems that Caliente is delivering exactly what they promised. They no doubt dropped mad cash for some celebrity participation (Rodman & the Lingerie Bowl) they have the prices clearly listed in their own press release.

Plenty of legitimate clubs have VIP areas where you purchase bottles at ridiculously inflated prices. Plenty also have nights where they have parties "hosted" by some celebrity who they paid to hang around the VIP area drinking free booze and pic up a mic every 20 minutes or so and say something like "I want all the sexy ladies in the house to shake your booties" or "all you party people let me hear you say yea.........what.......I can't hear you." What they are doing at Caliente sounds more like The Ponderosa doing Nudes-a-Popping. Whatever you think of Nudes-a-Popping they deliver exactly what they advertise, strippers from all over competing for prizes and celebrity MCs.

Actually that clip joint scam reminds me of a song from comedian Chris Rock. It's called "No Sex in the Champagne Room." It's all about a favorite scam of shady strip clubs. Make a guy (epically one with a wedding ring) think that if he pays to take a girl into the Champagne Room (VIP Room) they will have sex. Get him good and drunk and pad his bill with overprices bottles of champagne. What's he going to do, epically if he's married; get involved in a public court battle claiming that he thought the girl was willing to prostitute herself in the VIP room.

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[nudiarist]

With Caliente offering "naked cheerleaders" for the super bowl events, it's just about certain that Pasco County will be watching. Specific clubs have been targeted before.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/23/Pasco/County_takes_aim_at_s.shtml

And don't forget that Florida is still in the Bible Belt.

nudiarist
Diary of a Nudist
http://www.nudiarist.blogspot.com

[Mutant]

This is hardly the first nudist club to do the ridiculous lingerie stuff. It just plays into the idea that nudism is all about ogling the nekkid ladies. Plenty of AANR-sanctioned clubs still have the lingerie dances. My old club in the backwoods of the rural south did.

Just another example of clubs not having the slightest clue about how to evolve and remain relevant. Many give in to the notion that sex sells, and then you have this sort of nonsense.

[Bob]

http://www.collegeotr.com/college_otr/lingerie_bowl_has_money_problems_nudist_colony_com plaints_18183
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article968878.ece

[Wcstflyer]

The Lingerie Bowl, the Nude Bowl; aw let's call the whole thing off...part deux.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/bizarre/article970537.ece The article is written by Emily Nipps (that is her real name and not a nom de plume.)

That soft sobbing you hear off of Caliente Blvd. in Land O' Lakes is coming from the office of Steve Dorsey, the GM/COO of Caliente resort watching piles of fast Super Bowl cash evaporate before his very eyes.

"The league will not place our fans, players, staff nor partners in a less than comfortable environment..."

In truth the Lingerie Bowl and the Tampa Bay Breeze in particular were facing an onslaught of publicity of the kind that would be normal only if you lived on Bizzaro World. First there was news that quarterback/nude model/law breaker Reby Sky was not the wholesome girl she was advertised. That was followed by linebacker Melissa Jo Berry's brush with fame when some nude photos taken by a boyfriend surfaced at a nightclub in Channelside, just a couple doors down from ground zero involving two Carolina Panther cheerleaders and a shared toilet stall. http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p=9629 It should be mentioned that before she embarked on her career as a linebacker, an NFL position made famous by such Hall Of Famers like Pittsburgh Steelers' Jack Lambert, Melissa Jo Berry was doing the pole dance in-the-buff at Thee Dollhouse on N. Westshore. She's asking for $50,000 to sooth her tattered reputation.

[NakedGary]

<SMALL class=date>26 01 2009 </SMALL>

By Emily Nipps (http://bartsystems.wordpress.com/writers/article380276.ece), Times staff writer
Posted: Jan 26, 2009 08:18 AM



<HR noShade SIZE=1><TABLE class=grtable450leftcap cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=576 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=124></TD><TD width=452>http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00054/lingeriebowl_54179a.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD>[Lingerie Football League]


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>LAND O’ LAKES — It was supposed to be the Lingerie Bowl, not the naked bowl.
Now the whole thing has been canceled.
Citing conflicts with the hosting Caliente nudist resort over a “clothing mandate” that bowl organizers say was agreed upon, the Lingerie Football League is throwing in the towel. A league spokesman said holding and broadcasting the game in the nude or around nude people was not what the players and league had in mind.
“The league will not place our fans, players, staff nor partners in a less then comfortable environment that would ultimately jeopardize the mainstream perception and reputation of the brand that so many have worked diligently over these past five years to build,” the league’s Stephon McMillen said.
He said “on the advice of counsel” he couldn’t comment further. He later said the clothing mandate mostly referred to patrons at the game.
Angye Fox, a spokeswoman for Caliente Resorts, issued this statement: “Caliente is a luxury clothing-optional resort. We ran into conflicts with the Lingerie Football League wanting more areas of our resort restricted to clothing required then we could accommodate.”
The league’s announcement came after weeks of problems that hinted that the Jan. 31 Lingerie Bowl VI, which was to air on pay-per-view during the Super Bowl halftime, was in trouble.
The game was originally supposed to be held on a vacant lot in West Tampa, but neighbors objected. Tampa City Council members also disapproved, saying organizers hadn’t obtained proper insurance and permits.
Last week, the league announced it found a new home at Caliente, a clothing-optional resort in Pasco County. Shortly after, a few players quit, saying they hadn’t been paid and didn’t sign up to play at a nudist resort. Bowl promoters, however, said the players were fired for lack of dedication.
McMillon said the cancellation was disappointing, as millions were set to watch the broadcast and thousands planned on attending the game.
But, he said, “we feel ultimately it is in the best interest of the league not to place ourselves in what some would consider a potentially negative environment.”
Emily Nipps can be reached at (727) 893-8452 or nipps@sptimes.com.
[Last modified: Jan 26, 2009 11:35 AM]


Comments on this article
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Bridget</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 11:50 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>I invite you to look at the home page today for the top papers in the country. I will guarantee you that none of the truly well-respected papers have photos like this displayed. I’m so very sad that the St. Pete Times has become so skanky AND snarky.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Jay</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 11:29 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>We couldn’t get a trump tower,now no lingerie bowl in a town full of strip joints. Shows what a joke tampa is.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Anna</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 11:27 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>I was hoping they’d show the girls giving full body hugs. But I guess they can’t do that at a nudist colony.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Joe</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 11:03 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>“Awwww. Man!!! Sounded like fun.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by SwingersAreBad</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 10:41 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>I couldn’t agree more with Jimbo. That so-called resort needs to clean up its act before even the Lingerie Football League can stomach their antics.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Joe</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 10:15 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>THOUSANDS??? Thousands were going to be at the game watching?? I find it doubtful.. who here has heard of this “league” prior to this???</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Bucs33</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 10:02 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>although disappointig, I still have my season tickets for later this year, looking forward to it..</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Carol</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 09:48 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>How about a “Jock Strap Bowl”? Yeah, I thought not. I wish women wouldn’t participate in these degrading things, but…, they do. Sad.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by H Man</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 09:18 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>BULL. He just didn’t have enough girls to play</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by jo53</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 09:15 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>very good</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by jo53</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 09:14 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>good</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Scott</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 08:57 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Funny how a reporter named “Nipps” wrote this story.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Wcstflyer</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 08:48 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>These players are not sex objects but athletes and highly trained thespians looking to break into Hollywood. Some (like the Tampa quarterback) posed nude for artistic reasons. And I have some swampland available to sell.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by UNCONSTITUTIONAL</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 08:48 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Well it doesn’t seem like the promoters had their stuff together. Who waits till the very last minute to get permits and a site ? That should have been done a year in advance atleast. Clowns.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>by Jimbo</TD><TD align=right>Jan 26, 2009 08:34 AM</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>While I’m shedding a tear for missing this event, I don’t blame the league at all for backing off. It does suggest they have at least a little class to not be subjected to some agenda by a has-been resort. Good for you, and good luck in October!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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<SMALL class=postmetadata>Categories : U.S. Locations - Nude Resorts (http://wordpress.com/tag/us-locations-nude-resorts/)</SMALL>

[Fitz1980]

In truth the Lingerie Bowl and the Tampa Bay Breeze in particular were facing an onslaught of publicity of the kind that would be normal only if you lived on Bizzaro World. First there was news that quarterback/nude model/law breaker Reby Sky was not the wholesome girl she was advertised. That was followed by linebacker Melissa Jo Berry's brush with fame when some nude photos taken by a boyfriend surfaced at a nightclub in Channelside, just a couple doors down from ground zero involving two Carolina Panther cheerleaders and a shared toilet stall. http://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p=9629 It should be mentioned that before she embarked on her career as a linebacker, an NFL position made famous by such Hall Of Famers like Pittsburgh Steelers' Jack Lambert, Melissa Jo Berry was doing the pole dance in-the-buff at Thee Dollhouse on N. Westshore. She's asking for $50,000 to sooth her tattered reputation.

And this motley crew actually dumped a clothing optional resort that does have a "appropriate behavior in the common areas" rule on concerns about comfort and propriety. Just goes to show Caliente when you lay down with dogs you may wake up with fleas.

[LanceAtCaliente]

Just a comment:

Nudiarist said:

Perhaps you are having some problems in understanding what I have said repeatedly - I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHAT ANGYE FOX AND CALIENTE ARE DOING. It's a free country and they are entitled to their business success.

The problem is in PUBLIC PERCEPTION. News stories continue to refer to Caliente as a "nudist resort". This is inaccurate. It is a clothing-optional resort, as Angye Fox has stated in interviews, and as advertised on their web site.

He is exactly right ... The problem is in PUBLIC PERCEPTION. Why?

Because, the general populace (The Textiles in nudist parlance) generally feel that nudists at nudist resorts are sinners out on The Lunatic Fringe. Much of the USA is very conservative ... at heart ... and in public. Caliente is located in what is still rather a Bible-Belt Area. Evangelical Christians abound around Caliente. I know ... I've been to Caliente over 40 times ... maybe 50 times by now. I live just a moderate drive away from Caliente ... in The Textile World. When the presidential election was going on, you should have seen all the McCain & Palin signs, church signs, etc., etc. ... ! I'm telling you, folks, with these people, appearances are everything ... the appearance of goodness, wholesomeness, righteousness! Behind closed doors? Different ballgame. In public? PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING TO THESE FOLKS! Trust me on this. I live here. I see it every day.

The whole point is this:

Rile up a zealously religious district attorney, state legislator or government official with clout, and they could initiate a legislative fire storm and eventually propose and pass laws to shut down nudist resorts. No government or legal officials would ever do that? Call Rhonda Storms up and ask her about "The Lingerie Bowl." Better hold the phone away from your ear when you do. Get real! Hell, yes, they'd do it!

Don't think it can happen? Call any of the AANR Government Affairs officers and ask them. They'll tell you! AANR and TNS officers struggle mightly and continuously to keep our lifestyle legal.

The whole Caliente trip as it is going on now has vast potential to rile up powerful people who can (and WILL if provoked enough) step in and really do something about this. Provoke them enough (and Caliente is "kicking the hornets' nest" so to speak), and they darned sure WILL outlaw nudist resorts!

THAT'S WHAT NUDIARIST, CHERIE ALEXANDER, MOONSHADOW ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU!

Moreover, I'm not just shooting from the hip here. I know Chuck Foster (when he was alive), Bill Baldwin, Angye Fox (Angela Smits Whitaker), Steve Dorsey and have talked to them all at one time or another. They are steadfastly pursuing their present course, believe me. I know marketing and sales very well. I've repeatedly offered to help them sell our lifestyle to the masses above board as AANR intends it to be. All I got from them was disinterest and the cold shoulder. Wouldn't even discuss it at all. The strategy has been determined, and they're going to go with it, and that's that, thank you very much.

Why? The main investor wants them to, and he's the boss. He ultimately calls the shots. It's the old, "Want your job? Then do what I say." Period.

Yes, it's a free country. Yes, they've got big overhead. Yes, they've got to make money. We can say the same things about our man, Larry Flint and "Hustler Magazine." These arguments don't wash, folks. Sometimes, wrong really is wrong. This is one of those times. It's one of those times when the actions of the few will ruin things for the many.

The general public; i.e., The Textiles, don't dig this ****, folks! They really don't! Sorry about the languange, but I'm using it for emphasis.

Piss off the lawmakers, and they really will outlaw nudist resorts. Think it can't happen? Again, call AANR Goverment Affairs and LISTEN to what they tell you. THEY are the ones convincing the lawmakers to keep us legal ..., and keeping us legal directly depends on keeping us wholesome. Just the plain truth.

Just my opinion. Yes, I could be wrong. However, on this matter, I think I'm "spot on." Thanks, y'all.

Peace.

[Mutant]

The nudist establishment has no consistent and positive image, that's the problem. Ask a stranger to describe a nudist, and they'll either describe a fantasy world where teenage bimbos bounce around a volleyball court or a retirement community where grandparents sit around eating prunes. It's sexy or it's a joke, one or the other. Something like this lingerie event comes up, and nudists trample each other running to the media with their Bibles and grandkids in hand, desperately trying to prove that they are "conservative" and decent and all of that. Too bad there aren't any legitimate nudist celebrities or representatives who can simply laugh and say, "Yeah, that's a sexy adult party club, from what I hear. Not nudist, but it's fun if that's your thing, I guess." You can't live in fear of fringe evangelicals, because they will never see the difference anyway. They will never see any difference between Hustler and the Sunny Rest Conservative Nudist Resort for Heterosexual Families. You just have to appeal to the sensible 80% in the middle, laughing off this nonsense and presenting a fun and honest alternative.

[Journeyman]

Good stuff, Mutant. Excellent analysis.

[nickuma09]

You can't live in fear of fringe evangelicals, because they will never see the difference anyway. They will never see any difference between Hustler and the Sunny Rest Conservative Nudist Resort for Heterosexual Families. You just have to appeal to the sensible 80% in the middle, laughing off this nonsense and presenting a fun and honest alternative.

I agree with you overall--but the problem here is that (from what I gathered from Lance's post) the evangelicals actually control the machinery of the local government or are enough of a political influence in the area to take legit nudist places down if their feathers are riled up enough. So the dilemma becomes how do you operate in an environment where most people are hostile to you and don't always operate within the bounds of reason?

[Mutant]

The nudist establishment has allowed a fear of the far right to define its expressions. Time and again I have heard AANR representatives give interviews where they assure everyone that most of their members are Republicans, married, parents, etc. That's all fine and dandy, but isn't that ultimately the same as giving the school bully your lunch money so he won't beat you up after school?

[nickuma09]

^again agree with you in general principle...proving your cultural conservatism is probably alienating alot of people who like nude recreation but don't identify with the narrowly defined conception of family values the evangelical right espouses. but what do you do in regards to this specific situation where a clothing optional resort is being billed as a nudist resort in the press and is hosting things like the Lingerie Bowl and swingers parties in an area where the evangelical right run/have influence in the local government? What do you, as a hypothetical AANR/TNS representative say in regards to this situation?

[Lord Drakkus]

What do you, as a hypothetical AANR/TNS representative say in regards to this situation?

While I doubt this will ever come up in a conversation I'm in, I myself would tell them what you just said. That is not actually a "nudist" resort, per se. Since they don't subscribe to the AANR/TNS values that we, as nudists, subscribe to. It is, in fact, just a "clothing optional" resort, and therefore has it's own rules and standards. Whatever they choose to do there has nothing to do with nudists and is no longer accepted as a "nudist resort" by those who know what nudism is about, and label themselves as such.

[Mutant]

Yeah, if any such representative existed, he/she should simply stand up and dismiss this club as an adult party club, one that is generally ignored by the nudist community. The same response the right wing uses every time a wacko Christian polygamist sex cult makes the news. Quick dismissal. Dispatching the representatives and the lobbyists and getting defensive only makes it seem like "the lady doth protest too much." Which she does, because lots of clubs still have these ridiculous lingerie dances. Not on the same scale of a star-studded event, sure, but it makes it harder for the establishment to dismiss a lingerie bowl when every other club in the country is hosting "leather 'n lace" dances.

[LanceAtCaliente]

Mutant is right on here. By the way, thanks everyone, for your GREAT comments.

I make my living teaching companies, large and small, how to market and sell. Nine out of ten businesses are lousy at marketing and sales. Anyway ... Mutant is spot-on accurate:

Nobody in the naturist/nudist/C.O. "industry" knows how to articulate a viable, accurate and appealing value proposition to the general populace (The Textiles).

Too bad that they don't, because, I'm telling you, folks: This is an industry that is about to happen.

It's analogous to the personal computer industry in 1975: Just starting, not an industry yet ... but about to explode like the hydrogen bomb. I know: Both Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and I are the same age. I saw the entire P.C. Revolution from Day One. All of the benchmarks and bellwhethers of an impending boom of breathtaking proportions that the personal computer industry exhibited in 1975 are readily apparent to the astute observer in the C.O. industry right now in 2009. Granted, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I think I'm accurate on this one.

Well, just like the personal computer industry in 1975: The Clothing-Optional Scene is about to "go critical mass!" Mark my word on this! In fact, my wife and I plan to develop two resorts, one small, cozy and beautifully-appointed primarily for the ladies ... and one grandiloquent and magnificent for EVERYBODY ... to show what Caliente could have and should have been. By the way, women are now OWNING C.O. resorts, and they're doing A FANTASTIC JOB of running them! You go, gals!

Doggone it, I wish I could build these resorts and then go into a time machine and come back at age 25 again ... and dig the heck out of the resorts I just built! Instead, I gotta remain an old fart! Oh, well! Somebody's gotta do it, so what the heck! Oh, to be young again. I genuinely want future generations of naturists to be really free to "dig our scene" and have awesome places to do just that at. I REALLY do.

At age 53, I'm low on ambition, BUT ... I'm adamant about our lifestyle being properly indentified, sold and delivered to The Textiles. Am I trying to eliminate The Textiles? No. Am I trying to convert as many of them as possible to become one of us? You betcha!

Anyway, ...

Thanks, Mutant. You "rocked the truth" with what you said. Thanks again, y'all. (Gotta say "y'all" since I live in the south now. Originally from Pittsburgh. Go, Steelers!)!

The nudist establishment has no consistent and positive image, that's the problem. Ask a stranger to describe a nudist, and they'll either describe a fantasy world where teenage bimbos bounce around a volleyball court or a retirement community where grandparents sit around eating prunes. It's sexy or it's a joke, one or the other. Something like this lingerie event comes up, and nudists trample each other running to the media with their Bibles and grandkids in hand, desperately trying to prove that they are "conservative" and decent and all of that. Too bad there aren't any legitimate nudist celebrities or representatives who can simply laugh and say, "Yeah, that's a sexy adult party club, from what I hear. Not nudist, but it's fun if that's your thing, I guess." You can't live in fear of fringe evangelicals, because they will never see the difference anyway. They will never see any difference between Hustler and the Sunny Rest Conservative Nudist Resort for Heterosexual Families. You just have to appeal to the sensible 80% in the middle, laughing off this nonsense and presenting a fun and honest alternative.

[MoonShadow]

Well, guess I am an oddball on this one too. I find having a "lingerie bowl" to be tasteless no matter where it is held. I am surprised that women would want to even be in such an event. I am not in the least interested in seeing women in lingerie playing football. But then it isn't for women anyway; it's entertainment for the guys.

There are so many other types of events that can be scheduled at resorts (nudist's) without events like the lingerie bowl. I think this is scraping the bottom of the bowl.

[LanceAtCaliente]

Well, guess I am an oddball on this one too. I find having a "lingerie bowl" to be tasteless no matter where it is held. I am surprised that women would want to even be in such an event. I am not in the least interested in seeing women in lingerie playing football. But then it isn't for women anyway; it's entertainment for the guys.

There are so many other types of events that can be scheduled at resorts (nudist's) without events like the lingerie bowl. I think this is scraping the bottom of the bowl.

Yes, Ma'am. I thoroughly agree with you: The Lingerie Bowl is, indeed, disgusting whether it is held at Caliente or elsewhere. It's exploitation of women for the entertainment of guys, pure and simple ... and I'm a guy saying this. You're right. It really is scraping the bottom of the bowl, especially just to make money.

Naturism the AANR way and the TNS way are "The Way to Go" and not the hedonism way. Adult businesses will always be around. That's just life. That's human nature. However, they should just call themselves that, adult businesses, and NOT try and operate under the guise of Naturism, Nudism, what have you.

Thank you, MoonShadow, for your comment. Sorry if I was a little curt on a previous post. I was just adamant about making a point. Did not mean to offend you in any way. Accept my apology if you were offended. No offense intended, believe me ... Peace.

[Lord Drakkus]

I am not in the least interested in seeing women in lingerie playing football. But then it isn't for women anyway; it's entertainment for the guys.

Not all guys either. There is no way I would ever watch this "lingerie bowl" for myself either. The only reason I would even consider a glimpse of it is to see if it's really lingerie, or just standard underwear being advertised as lingerie.