PETA adverts

[spafan83]

Link to some of the ads for PETA

http://rubyroom.aol.co.uk/Naked_for_a_good_cause/

Pleased to see celebs supporting it.

[Yuppers]

PETA is one organised I would like to see illegalised. So many videos of torture but they are actually torturing the animals themselves. In Australia, PETA was caught out at paying an unlicenced gun owner to shoot a Kangaroo and treat it cruelly, only to say it was common practice by farmers.

Basically, PETA is nothing but a radical organisation full of liars and extremists.

[Nude in the North]

"a radical organisation full of liars and extremists."

No shortage of those, anywhere.

[Eternity]

Basically, PETA is nothing but a radical organisation full of liars and extremists.
We live in a world where animals are abused by the billions for even the smalest of profits. Certain PETA members go to far in their actions but that's no reason to ban PETA. It's important to keep some sort of opposition to world wide animal abuse.

[Yuppers]

We live in a world where animals are abused by the billions for even the smalest of profits. Certain PETA members go to far in their actions but that's no reason to ban PETA. It's important to keep some sort of opposition to world wide animal abuse.

The fact that PETA has been found to be cruel to animals then portrays the torture as committed farmers and other people, shows that they should not be a legal organisation.

To be kind to animals, mobs like this one need to go.

By using brain dead celebrities like Pamela Anderson who make claims such as KFC cooks their chickens by boiling them alive as she claimed outside a KFC store at the Gold Coast(Queensland, Aust), shows the stupid extremes that this group goes. Only the gullible follow them.

[BlobbyBob]

http://www.rajuabju.com/literature/peta.htm

http://www.vegetariansareevil.com/peta2.html

[MoonShadow]

Putting out sites that vegetarians are evil and people eating tasty animals does nothing any better than what people are claiming PETA does. It's the same messaging and propaganda with different techniques.

I do think PETA is extreme but they do capture one's attention. Trust me if they were doing all the torturing and killing as claimed here, they would be put out of business. I think this is just the other side wanting to eliminate PETA.

[jibby44]

p - people
e - eatiing
t - tastey
a - animals

animals were built for the use and consumption of humans....the bible says it if you are a christian. abuse is bad, but use is fine. just my 2 cents.

[RalphVa]

Ever figure what a deer is good for? HUMAN FOOD.

[Yuppers]

I do think PETA is extreme but they do capture one's attention. Trust me if they were doing all the torturing and killing as claimed here, they would be put out of business. I think this is just the other side wanting to eliminate PETA.

They have been caught doing it. They have even admitted to doing some of the things that they accuse others of doing. Then I come across PETA supporters who say that it is okay for them to inflict torture on animals because it gets the message across. Hey, why don't I rape a child and say that it's alright because it gets the message across - Nudist Dad Rapes Own Child!

Tell ya, the excuses I have heard to cover up for PETA.

Who is saying that vegetarians are evil anyway? Nobody is. Not one person is. It is PETA who wish to make it illegal for people to consume all meats whatsover, such is their foolishness and extremism.

Sadly, when PETA was caught at paying two unlicenced gun owners to shoot a Kangaroo and torture it, they did not seek extradition from America these hypocrits. Instead, they merely fined the two idiots holding guns illegally. There right action would have been to seek extradition for animal cruelty, etc on these PETA people.

[Bob S.]

It is organizations like PETA that make one want to turn away from the animal rights issues. I can't stand them and they are right in my own backyard. Their headquarters are in Norfolk, VA, the next city over from me :mad:

They have handed out Unhappy Meals to children that show graphic comic book depictions of animals getting slaughtered, two of their employees went to an animal shelter in NC, acquired some dogs with the promise that they would get adopted out, and then euthanized the animals before tossing them away in a trash bin (the employees were not fired and actually defended by PETA). While they speak out against shelters for their kill policies (euthanizing animals after a certain amount of time spent at the shelter), they are the number one shelter euthanizer.

I remember when Rudy Giulliani was mayor of NYC and was undergoing treatments for cancer, PETA put up a billboard (I think in the midwest) akin to the "Got Milk" ads with the mayor sporting a milk moustache with the slogan, "Got Cancer?"

I feel ashamed to be a vegetarian whenever they stick their noses out.

Bob S.

[toofeelgood]

I believe that Peta does more good than harm. If they have been misleading then they should be called on it for the simple fact that they will loose credibilty across the board once it is more widely known that they are hypocritical. There needs to be oranizations like them to keep in the publics eye the fact that there is more to this world than the bottom line.

[MoonShadow]

p - people
e - eatiing
t - tastey
a - animals

animals were built for the use and consumption of humans....the bible says it if you are a christian. abuse is bad, but use is fine. just my 2 cents.


Those of us who are not christian disagree with your statement. Animals are not here specifically for the consumption of humans. They are here as part of a living planet filling specific niches within the eco-system.

[LamontCranston]

Those of us who are not christian disagree with your statement. Animals are not here specifically for the consumption of humans. They are here as part of a living planet filling specific niches within the eco-system. And those of us who are Christian (or at least me) also disagree with your statement. Noah wasn't a Christian but in the Bible (Genesis) didn't he go about saving animals?

[MoonShadow]

Sorry, Lamont, but we live on a living planet with intricate eco-systems. How can you disagree with the fact that we each fill niches on this living planet?

[Fitz1980]

I'm all for treating animals ethically but I don't like PETA's stance on lots of issues.

People have already mentioned them protesting the euthanizing of animals in shelters while euthanizing a larger percentage of animals in their own shelters than organizations like the American Humane Society. That one really bothers me because lots of people will specifically give a stray animal to PETA because they are worried that it will be euthanized at the local animal shelter.

They also oppose the breeding of pet animals, they see it as "animal slavery." Ironically lots of pet lovers give PETA money not knowing that is one of their positions. They oppose the keeping and breeding of Pit Bulls and want the whole breed to be outlawed and have any that are brought into animal shelters to be killed, which is already the law in some places. As a Pit Bull lover myself when I read Ms. Newkirk's article on that subject I felt like I was reading the ramblings of an insane sociopath.

They also oppose using animals in any type of medical testing, even for diseases like HIV & AIDS. Ironically one of their board members is diabetic and takes medications developed through the use of animal testing. When asked about the hypocrisy of that she responded "I need my life to fight for the animals." Here's some quotes about AIDS from them.

"AIDS is an easy disease to avoid, but our government squanders millions on duplicative animal tests." - Dan Mathews, PETA vice-president

"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." — Ingrid Newkirk, President and Co-Founder of PETA

To recap that's an entire breed of dog, including many beloved family pets, that she wants to see put down but is against using animals to find a cure/treatment for AIDS.

After a Palestinian organization used a donkey to carry a bomb into an Israeli marketplace PETA sent a letter to Yasser Arrifat asking him to leave animals out of the conflict, no mention of leaving civilians and children out of the conflict, but the donkey was the most of her concern.

[WilliamCA]

So now they need to use sexuality to sell their stupid ideas. Just goes to show where these guys sre

[walter05]

Lions would believe that zebras exist to provide them with food.

Creatures have come into existence and then gone extinct for a long time.

Are you opposed to eating meat at all?

[Pete Knight]

Lions would believe that zebras exist to provide them with food. I'm not convinced that Lions are capable of rational thought, they hunt and eat by instinct. Hunger pang drives them to hunt and whatever unfortunate creature happens to be around at the time becomes din dins.

Creatures have come into existence and then gone extinct for a long time.


Under the natural order the eco system is self sustaining, it is we humans with our enlarged brain that have put a spanner in the eco works. We hunt creatures to extinction, we create situations where animals alter their normal pattern to live on our waste or otherwise take advantage of our presence. We also build our settlemnts in the habitat of some creatures, or block their migratory routes.

Basically we are the cancer of this planet, and if we don't learn to respect the planet we will, like the real cancer, be the death of our host, and your God will still be in your mind, unable to prevent this armageddon.

Pete Knight

[walter05]

We are part of the natural order of the planet.

[LamontCranston]

Sorry, Lamont, but we live on a living planet with intricate eco-systems. How can you disagree with the fact that we each fill niches on this living planet? Errr... sorry Moon (a pun!) I was disagreeing to the earlier post you were disagreeing with. I replied to or quoted your response, not his original post. :o You said as a non-Christian you disagreed with him and I chimed (or tried to) that as a Christian I disagreed with him too.

And of course we (each species including us) fill a niche on this living planet. That seems to me so extensively and pervasively so that that's why I believe there's no life elsewhere in the solar system. A few molecules of ancient mummified water don't add up to what we have here.

[nud_bare]

We live in a world where PEOPLE are abused by the Millions for even the smallest of profits.

This correction has a lot more meaning to me. PETA spend to much time worring about our food and not enough time worring about the PEOPLE who eat it

[NudeAl]

I disagree with the tactics of PETA. I think I can agree with some of their mission statements however I tend to dislike exptremists of any stripe. They have conducted themselves in less than admirable ways that others here have already mentioned. I am not a vegetarian however I have friends who are. I respect their personal choice I just happen to see it differently. We humans have truely screwed up the environment and I don't know if there is any chance of reversing things. We are going to learn the hard way that there are a finite amount of resources on this planet.

[Yuppers]

I believe that Peta does more good than harm. If they have been misleading then they should be called on it for the simple fact that they will loose credibilty across the board once it is more widely known that they are hypocritical. There needs to be oranizations like them to keep in the publics eye the fact that there is more to this world than the bottom line.

Yet another excuse. I should use that for the Nazi era as they were the first government to bring laws protecting animals from cruelty.

[Pete Knight]

We are part of the natural order of the planet.
Yes I know, but our enlarged brain has led us to evolve quicker than the other creatures on the planet, it will be our downfall as well as theirs, we are upsetting the balance too quickly for natural evolution to save many species.

We can either learn and accept, then adapt. or go the way of the dinosaurs.

Pete Knight

[walter05]

Given the rate of genetic variation of bacteria, I would think we are not the fastest evolving.

I agree that we should use our brains to manage our actions to be good for the planet.

[MoonShadow]

Lions would believe that zebras exist to provide them with food.

Creatures have come into existence and then gone extinct for a long time.

Are you opposed to eating meat at all?


I am not opposed to eating meat at all. I am opposed to anyone thinking that we are the only superior form of life on this living planet. We are not! We are a species among many that inhabits this magnificent planet.

[MoonShadow]

Errr... sorry Moon (a pun!) I was disagreeing to the earlier post you were disagreeing with. I replied to or quoted your response, not his original post. :o You said as a non-Christian you disagreed with him and I chimed (or tried to) that as a Christian I disagreed with him too.

And of course we (each species including us) fill a niche on this living planet. That seems to me so extensively and pervasively so that that's why I believe there's no life elsewhere in the solar system. A few molecules of ancient mummified water don't add up to what we have here.

Ah! Thank you for the clarification, lamont! :)

[Sanslines]

Given the rate of genetic variation of bacteria, I would think we are not the fastest evolving.

I agree that we should use our brains to manage our actions to be good for the planet.

Can we start using our brains by limiting population growth and stop using religions as excuses to ruin our planet?

Just remember that the woman who just had 8 babies is still able to have even more.

[walter05]

The problem is that this decision will not be universal.

There are those who are using fertility as a weapon. Those individuals are not concerned with freedom, respect for others, or preserving the environment.

I have an interesting link:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129882

If the story is true, it is scary. I know that in Israel, terrorists have set forest fires. The Israelis have developed ways to monitor forests to protect them.

However, forests in Australia, the U.S.A. and Canada are much larger than Israeli forests.

If those of us who are more concerned don't have children, then we will be out numbered faster by the others. When that happens, the planet would be doomed.

[MoonShadow]

If those of us who are more concerned don't have children, then we will be out numbered faster by the others. When that happens, the planet would be doomed.


Will never happen! We have too many people who think this way and propagate like rabbits to insure "their race", "their nationality", and whathaveyou. THIS is why we need to begin rethinking about our over population and the concern by so many to keep having babies in an already over-crowded planet.

[walter05]

This is already happening in Europe.

Denmark, France, Germany, and the U.K. are starting to see early signs of this.

If trends do not reverse, we may live to see the day when all women in these countries are required to weark burkas.

As a father of six children, I am may be one that you most strongly opppose. My four girls and two boys are loving sweet and compassionate people.. They understand that the natural world is a gift from our creator and that we have a duty to preserve it.

My six kids do more to preserve the environment than they negatively affect it.

As long as we are being politically incorrect, I think that government programs that encourage having babies are in error. Only people who can afford to support their children are able to do so in a way that preserves the environment.

This woman in California that now has 14 children that she can't support is what is wrong. 1 child that can't be supported is a problem, 14 is worse.

[MoonShadow]

Walter, the tactics you speak of are scare tactics.

Women in the UK, France, Spain, etc., will NOT resort to wearing burkas in the future.

I am not against people having children. I AM against people thinking that it is their role and goal in life. It isn't. I suppose by not being a religious person I see the world differently and one of those is the expectation of people that your goal in life is to grow up, get married, have kids, make the family. This is NOT for everyone and it should NOT be people's main purpose in life. But tell that to the religious sect.

The woman who had six kids and then had another eight is an example of what dysfunctioning in our society does. My heart goes out to her children who are starting life off badly and will subjected to social programs because their mother was too self-centered and selfish and was thinking only of herself and not of the lives her children will have. My heart goes out to the social network in California, a state already broke and now will expend millions to one woman and 14 children. So sad.

[Pete Knight]

This is already happening in Europe.

Denmark, France, Germany, and the U.K. are starting to see early signs of this.


So your quest fro above average families is based on religious intolerance! I live in the UK and I can assure you that we are a long way off being forced to dress our women in a burka.

Like France we have a lot of Islamic settlers as a result of our colonial past, prior to independence the people of some colonies had the legal right to obtain a British passport, many did so and many moved here.

Religion will be the cause of the demise of the human race if they are all intent on out numbering each other, take a look HERE (http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_statistics_by_area.htm) for the statistics on population, look at the growth rates, the poorer countries have the greatest growth rates, the ones that can ill afford to have more mouths to feed, and yet they are dominated by religion.

Pete Knight

[Sanslines]

The problem is that this decision will not be universal.

There are those who are using fertility as a weapon. Those individuals are not concerned with freedom, respect for others, or preserving the environment.

I have an interesting link:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129882

If the story is true, it is scary. I know that in Israel, terrorists have set forest fires. The Israelis have developed ways to monitor forests to protect them.

However, forests in Australia, the U.S.A. and Canada are much larger than Israeli forests.

If those of us who are more concerned don't have children, then we will be out numbered faster by the others. When that happens, the planet would be doomed.


Walter,

It sounds that you have raised your children in a caring and responsible environment. Sadly, most children are not raised in such environments and this is another problem.

The first and foremost problem is that this planet has finite resources. The human population is increasing at an exponential rate. Religions brainwash their followers into reproducing without considering the consequences that such out of control reproduction has upon this planet. Those same religions put the burden on GOD for man's self created problems on this planet. Those same religions use and abuse GOD for their own selfish purposes.

If you want to talk abut Israel in particular then these are the facts. Both Arabs and Jews are actively encouraged to have as many children as possible. Doing so has absolutely nothing to do with any GOD and everything to do with forming a majority population in a piece of land that is being fought over in many different ways. Many Israelis are having numerous children in an attempt to settle and populate areas such as the West bank and to force the Arabs out. The Arabs are counterattacking by having more children the the Israelis. If the Israelis don't keep up they will eventually be overrun by the Arabs. Hence, this is the REAL reason why Israelis (Jews) are encouraged to have numerous children. Yet, many rabbis use GOD for man's purposes and preace to their followers as if they are doing the work of GOD by having so many children. What will those rabbis say when the earth is ruined by overpopulation? Will they then preach that this was GOD's will when it was obvious that GOD gave MAN the intelligence and ability to prevent this disaster?

All people need to wake up and work to control human population. If not, the we will be doomed and that doom will be much sooner that later.

The woman who has 14 children is mentally ill. This is obvious. Now she is playing a media game to influence others into believing that she is having so many children for the 'love of children'. If she is so much in love with children, then she can get off her lazy butt and find a job in a hospital working in a children's cancer ward or she can become a teacher. Instead she abuses social services by finding ways to milk the system. The system is NOT designed for this kind of abuse and gives critics of social services the ammunition to get rid of all social services. Those who are truly in need will suffer and pay the price for one selfish woman. How sad!

The many serious problems that we face in the USA today are do to too many self centered people who only care about themselves. There in no longer a sense of community and doing what is right for the common good of all. Too many people take and take and give nothing back. Yet, people don't want to accept personal responsibility and instead look to people like Obama to do all of the hard work to fix the problems. Obama can do absolutely nothing unless people are willing to cooperate and contribute to resolving the problems.

[Cheri]

Those of us who work in the Research offices are well aware of PETA's ill-advised agendas.

A previous vet here used the acronym to stand for People for the Enjoyment of Tasty Animals.
:) Cheri

[NudeAl]

Will never happen! We have too many people who think this way and propagate like rabbits to insure "their race", "their nationality", and whathaveyou. THIS is why we need to begin rethinking about our over population and the concern by so many to keep having babies in an already over-crowded planet.

I couldn't agree more!

Case in point the woman who just gave birth to those 8 children and she already has 6! She had lall of them through invetro, using the same doctor. I think he should have his license pulled. I can not understand the drive to have that many kids. I know no one wants to do it but I am starting to believe we need to put some limits on the number of kids you can have. We are approaching max capacity for this planet and if we don't do anything here will only be starvation and misery in our future. Another resource we are indanger of running out of is fresh water. They say that water is the next oil. If you watch the news at all you can not help but notice that droughts are more and more common the area where those wildfires now rage in Australia has been living in drought conditions for 12 years now.

[walter05]

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=60 is a link to an interesting study from a proper think tank. The trends are clear.

http://www.gwias.com/globe/archive/000072.html is another link to an analysis of the trends in Europe.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4E385931-F82C-4E92-9C17-0DC55569D8D1 is a link to a summary of a book that explains the trends in Europe.

One quote from this report is: "Into the void are coming Islam and Muslims. As Christianity falters, Islam is robust, assertive, and ambitious. As Europeans under-reproduce at advanced ages, Muslims do so in large numbers while young."

I could find many more such posts. There is also a signficant problem with those that are on welfare. They are more likely to consume more with little regard for the costs.

When the U.S.S.R. fell we became aware of the environmental damage done in the U.S.S.R. The world's largest and most fertile inland fresh water sea was destroyed. The U.S.S.R. had little regard for the environment.

Today, China also has little regard for the environment.
My point is simply saying that having too many babies is the problem. It is more important who those additional humans are.

If someone is able to support and take care of the children and raise them to be loving compassionate people, then having 10 children is not a problem.

If 5 individual women have 1 child each, all out of wedlock, all supported on the dole, the impact on the environment is quite severe.

If there are those who intend to use fertility as a weapon, and those individuals have large numbers of children, and the rest of us stop having children, then the environment is doomed.

Walter

[MoonShadow]

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=60 is a link to an interesting study from a proper think tank. The trends are clear.

http://www.gwias.com/globe/archive/000072.html is another link to an analysis of the trends in Europe.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4E385931-F82C-4E92-9C17-0DC55569D8D1 is a link to a summary of a book that explains the trends in Europe.

One quote from this report is: "Into the void are coming Islam and Muslims. As Christianity falters, Islam is robust, assertive, and ambitious. As Europeans under-reproduce at advanced ages, Muslims do so in large numbers while young."

I could find many more such posts. There is also a signficant problem with those that are on welfare. They are more likely to consume more with little regard for the costs.

When the U.S.S.R. fell we became aware of the environmental damage done in the U.S.S.R. The world's largest and most fertile inland fresh water sea was destroyed. The U.S.S.R. had little regard for the environment.

Today, China also has little regard for the environment.
My point is simply saying that having too many babies is the problem. It is more important who those additional humans are.

If someone is able to support and take care of the children and raise them to be loving compassionate people, then having 10 children is not a problem.

If 5 individual women have 1 child each, all out of wedlock, all supported on the dole, the impact on the environment is quite severe.

If there are those who intend to use fertility as a weapon, and those individuals have large numbers of children, and the rest of us stop having children, then the environment is doomed.

Walter

Walter, with all due respect, these links are all about instilling fear. It's propaganda! Christianity is by no means faltering and the Islam or other religion are not being any more robust or vigorous. This is what religions do. They want to make people afraid.

Yes, China is a major polluter but that is mostly because we sold our manufacturing soul to them so that manufacturing could be done in China without EPA and OSHA regulations as we have here in the states. China imposes strong birth control. We don't even have any such control in this country.

And what do you mean "it is important who those additional human beings are"???

It doesn't matter if 5 women/couples have one child each on the dole or not. Five new humans is five new humans, each with their own carbon footprint.

The planet can only sustain so many and we have reached that point. Adding more in greater numbers is just more planetary suicide.

[walter05]

For the sake of argument, I propose a fictional world with the following population:

1 married couple, called the "Joneses" that believes that the world is sacred and should be preserved.

1 married couple called the "Smiths" that beleives that the world is to be exploited.

1 married couple called the "Oranges" believes that they have the only correct way for the world. They want to have as many children as possible so they can force their views on the rest of the world. Dominating the wold is their only goal.

1 married couple called the "Greens" that only want to have 1 child to limte their effect on the world.

1 unmarried woman named "She" having as many babies as possible. She only thinks short term and looks for as much pleasure as possible. She can't support the child.

1 selfish male named "He" having as much fun as possible and being the sperm donor for "She".

At this point there are only 10 people on the planet.

If the Joneses have 2 children and the Greens have 1 child, there will be 7 people who want to conserve the planet.

If the Smiths have 4 children, and the Oragnes have 6 children, there will then be 14 humans that want to exploit the planet.

If "She" has 3 children out of wedlock that she can't support, there will be 5 people who are only into short term pleasure.

At the start, 4 out of 10 people were interested in preserving the planet for 40%.

By the second generation 7 of 24 people, there will only be 29.1% of the human population that is concerned with the planet.

In the world today, the human beings that are producing the most children are poor third world people and those interested in using fertility as a weapon to conquer the world.

Modern peaceful countries such as Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the U.S.A., Canada, and Western Europe have a negative population replacement rate from reproduction.

The trends for the world are worse than my example. If only those trends continue, the world is in worse shape than you can imagine.

[Pete Knight]

In third world countries the birth rate may well be high, but with infant mortality being equally high, and life expectancy being low it averages out. Other reasons for large families is a cheap workforce for your small holding, a pension (They feed you when you're too old to do it yourself.), and of course the lack of contraception. When abstinence is the only reliable means of controlling the birth rate its no wonder there are loads of them.

Why do religions want world dominance anyway?

Pete Knight

[walter05]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080818.wpoor0818/BNStory/International/home_ is a link to an article in Toronto's Glebe and Mail. It shows that population growth is fastest in those places that are the poorest.

Much of the growth in the richer countries is emigration and children of emigrants from those poor countries.

Any ideology can attempt to force itself on others. In the 19th century, it may have been the Babylonians, Persian-Medians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Manifest Destiny where White Americans attempted to subjugate and dominate indigenous Americans, the European Colonial Powers from the 16th century until after World War II when the cost of World War II ended their ability to keep their far flung empires, to National Socaailism in Germany, to Soviet Communism from the U.S.S.R., etc.

This is not a problem peculiar to religions. Mankind has a history of attempting to force ideologies on those that disagree.

I personally believe that it is only with the emergence of the U.S.A. in 1776 that the ideas of respect for the individual and freedom started to be seen as more important than any single ideology.

[walter05]

I think it is time to clarify my position.

I don't think a married couple should have babies to save the planet.

I also don't think having babies destroys the planet.

I merely pose the possibility that in some cases the having of babies may protect the planet.

My wife and I chose to have all of our children. That includes a pair of twins in the middle. I work full time outside of the house and my wife works full time taking care of the home.

I am offended at those who think they are superior and right not to have had so many children and we are uncaring people having as many babies as we want without concern over the effects on the planet.

[WilliamCA]

Can we start using our brains by limiting population growth and stop using religions as excuses to ruin our planet?

Just remember that the woman who just had 8 babies is still able to have even more.

Population control is the most evil form of fascism and mind control. Never accept such a thing!

[nimrod]

I merely pose the possibility that in some cases the having of babies may protect the planet.

If over-population is harming the planet, how can having more babies protect it?

[nimrod]

Population control is the most evil form of fascism and mind control. Never accept such a thing!

If population control is being forced upon you by the government, I would mostly agree with you. We should all be aware of what over population leads to and self regulate and only have two children, (not for each person, but for each couple) that is enough to replace without adding to the population. If we are at a point where we are already over populated, only having one child will decrease the population.

[Sanslines]

Population control is the most evil form of fascism and mind control. Never accept such a thing!

Population growth control is what responsible individuals do to ensure a future for subsequent generations.

Look at what selfish and ignorant people have done to the animal population. Instead of doing the responsible thing by having their pet spayed or neutered, they contribute to the fantastic overpopulation of animals. Many of these animals wind up in shelters where they are destroyed.

The exponentially increasing human population alreasy has had profound effects upon this planet and it's finite resources. The argument about those who have 'good' babies to counter those who have 'bad' babies is ludicrous. Too many babies are too many babies and everyone has to contribute to limiting human population growth or they will doom this planet to extinction. I for one wish to leave something for future generations. I understand that many don't give a damn about future generations. Attitudes such as these are why we have so many of the serious problems that we have today.

[NudeAl]

I can see this idea of population control is controversial. However the consequences of not trying to stem the tide is a world where mass starvation is only a matter of time. We simply can not continue on the path we are on and not face reality someday. If our course remains unchecked there will be civil unrest and governments will crumble if they can not take care of their people. There will be mass exoduses from the worlds worst affected areas and resistance to these new arrivals at what ever destinations they seek. We can see this now in some of the parts of the third world. If a population exceeds the capacity of the land to sustain it this is inevitable. It is a subject we will have to explore and deal with. If we do nothing then the laws of nature will correct this overpopulation for us. I was simply trying to say it is in our own interest to deal with the problem first in the hope of reducing the coming consequences. This is relevant to the world economic situation we now face as the parts of the world that can least withstand this economic situation will face these problems in the near future. Historically food shortages have shaped world events causing untold human suffering and it is only after a leveling off occurs and something approaching an equilibrium has been restored that order is restored. This of course is an extreme worst case scenario however it is not beyond the range of possibilities.

[Yuppers]

I must have missed something. What has this got to do with PETA?:confused:

[Pete Knight]

I must have missed something. What has this got to do with PETA?:confused:
Just natural thread drift, it happens, just like in real conversation.

Pete Knight

[walter05]

There will be mass exoduses from the worlds worst affected areas and resistance to these new arrivals at what ever destinations they seek. We can see this now in some of the parts of the third world.



We also see this within developed countries. Inner Cities have been declining in population.

Irresponsibly having children is a threat. I don't deny that.

It those having the children are married and have the means to support them, then having children can be a wonderful thing for the world.

If there are single parents, underage parents, and those without the means, even one child can be a terrible challenge for the world.

[MoonShadow]

Hmmm, Walter, single parents having children is bad for the world?????? Are you serious?

[walter05]

Usually!!!!!!!!!!

Simply having a sperm unite with an egg does creat a person.

However, it generally takes both parents to raise a loving, caring human being. Males and females have different natures and offer different reinforcements and lessons for kids.

If the father and mother don't have a solid relationship, this often undermines the kids.

[Fitz1980]

Inner Cities have been declining in population.


Is that across the board? Because I know that here in Atlanta more people have been moving to the city because they didn't want to spent 2 hours a day commuting to and from the suburbs. Than you have a thing called gentrification when richer people move into a community that was formally less rich. For example in neighborhoods in Atlanta many former slum-like areas have become gentrified. Some is people buying out the whole neighborhood to demolish and put in luxury condos, others is people buying up individual lots to demolish or fix up. Either way the result is neighborhoods where the value of a standard lot/house was around $50,000 10 years ago is now in the low hundreds of thousands of dollars, even after the real estate bubble burst.

[walter05]

Savannah, due to the Historic District, has been an exception for years.

Those are just the trends.

Walter

[Fitz1980]

Savannah, due to the Historic District, has been an exception for years.

Those are just the trends.

Walter

I wasn't talking about Savannah, I was talking about most of Atlanta, which is about 6 hours northwest of Savannah. The way I hear it urban areas have been expanding, it was a trend that started when people didn't want to drive 3 hours a day to commute to and from work. Rising cost of gas didn't help, and I think where about the only thing that kept the real estate bubble from bursting in Atlanta for about 1 year after it did elsewhere.

http://news.ncsu.edu/releases/2007/may/104.html

[MoonShadow]

Many inner cities in the south are reviving their downtowns utilizing older buildings to renovate and make exceptionally nice loft, garden, and townhome spaces for people to buy and live in.

The move is more to the urban areas and inner cities that are renovating to attract residents into the downtown areas. As gas prices remain high and go higher, as the economy continues sagging, more people will want to move into cities and towns for the conveniences, the amenities closer by, and less maintenance from rural, large lot homes.

And yes, Fitz, the real estate bubble has had an enormous effect.

[walter05]

Altanta is only 4 hours from Savannah. (From the Southern Atlanta suburbs to the Western Savannah suburbs it is only 3 hours.)

I was giving another city that seems to be against the trend.

I have a link to an article in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/07/10/atlanta_population_jumps.html

One quote is, "In the 1990s, the city had about 100,000 fewer people than it had in the 1960s."

However, it does appear that the trend from the 60s to the 90s had reversed.

The article indicates this may be a national trend. I hope this is true. If so, this is good.

You have caused me to revisit this and I am learning, thank you.

Walter

[Fitz1980]

Altanta is only 4 hours from Savannah. (From the Southern Atlanta suburbs to the Western Savannah suburbs it is only 3 hours.)


I was quoting from the last two times I drove it. Both times I started in Kennesaw, suburb in the north metro area. One we hit the road on Friday afternoon and Friday-rush hour in the city. The other was between Christmas and New Years when traffic was a mess the whole way.

[walter05]

From Kennesaw to around Jackson, at Friday rush hour, it easily could have taken 2 hours just to cross Atlanta.

[Fitz1980]

You are correct sir. The worst college semester I ever had was when I had to drive from Kenesaw to GA State 4 days a week. Usually I stacked all of my classes up on the same 2 days a week (and before that I went to Kennesaw State) so that I wouldn't spend half of my day in the car.