The police won't save you.

[Skinview]

It seems the police aren't going to risk their lives to save us. After they arrived at the scene of the Binghamton, NY shooting, they did nothing.

"Police heard no gunfire after they arrived but waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008979044_aphostageshooting.html

People were dying inside the building, and for all the police knew, there was a killer inside with countless more potential victims, but the police waited outside to be sure it was safe for themselves. If you are facing a killer, the only one who is going to save you is yourself or someone else there who has the means to shoot back. Call 911, and you get a cleanup crew and yellow tape installers.

[BinCo]

Well, what can I say?


Duh?:lipsrsealed2:

PS: Don't let anyone know that City Councils have really gutted the police department and made too many of them into revenue streams.

[Paniga]

The police did the right thing. They never put more lives at risk. They always make sure the scene is sucure before the enter a building.

[roaddog]

Hey Paniga,
You are so wrong!!!

Some years ago in the UK there was an incident, a woman was shot by her husband, she called the police and the ambulance, both of which arrived in plenty of time to save her, the husband shot himself and did a far better job of it. She told them that he was dead, but the police wouldn't let anyone in to help her until Armed response unit had arrived, by which time the woman had bled to death, all the time pleading for help to the telephone operators.

Policemen are paid a great deal of money and stack up a good pension real quick, they are paid to protect the rest of us, in this they generally fail. All you have to do is check out the reports in the newspapers, ask yourself a simple question. "Which is greater, the number of cops sent to jail for breaking the law, or the number of cops killed in the line of duty?" And they wonder where the respect has gone.

Don't get me wrong there are some good cops out there, but they are rapidly becoming the minority, morality has been replaced by political correctness, and this leads nowhere good.

Sorry I just had to have a quick rant. Bad day and sharing.
Cheers
Mick

[Naturist Mark]

Policemen are paid a great deal of money

Perhaps in your country. Around here there is no such thing as a rich honest policeman. Heck, I even know an ex-policeman who went into teaching in order to make ends meet.

[nakedstudent]

If you are facing a killer, the only one who is going to save you is yourself or someone else there who has the means to shoot back.

Exactly why the 2nd amendment is so important... sure there are kooks out there, but we all have the right and should exercise the right to bear arms...

Self defense is an essential aspect to living in a world with the crazies we've seen recently... Pittsburgh, etc are all examples of the increasing commonality of disturbed and dangerous people in our society...

[NudeAl]

...If you are facing a killer, the only one who is going to save you is yourself or someone else there who has the means to shoot back. Call 911, and you get a cleanup crew and yellow tape installers.

Amen brother, that's why I got my permit. The Supreme Court has upheld that the police have no duty to protect you. There was a case before the court where the family of a woman who was killed by her estranged ex-husband was attempting to sue over her death. She had a restraining order and the X had a violent record, she died while on the phone with the 911 operater begging her to get the cops there to save her life. The only person responsible for saving your life is you.

[Oldman]

Perhaps in your country. Around here there is no such thing as a rich honest policeman. Heck, I even know an ex-policeman who went into teaching in order to make ends meet.

Our regional police service has a starting base salary of $53,000
and the average salary for a constable is $66,000

Staff officers run around $130,000 to $170,000

At that, they don't even cadge for free donuts and coffee.

[Oldman]

Amen brother, that's why I got my permit. The Supreme Court has upheld that the police have no duty to protect you. There was a case before the court where the family of a woman who was killed by her estranged ex-husband was attempting to sue over her death. She had a restraining order and the X had a violent record, she died while on the phone with the 911 operater begging her to get the cops there to save her life. The only person responsible for saving your life is you.

That is something few people are aware of. Police have no duty to protect.

Of course here in civilised Canada, it is frowned on to have a gun for Personal Protection. If you do have a handgun, it has to be locked away, with the ammunition locked away each in separate lockups. And the handgun must have a trigger lock. So legally to protect yourself, you must first open one storage unit and remove the handgun, second unlock the trigger lock, then go to the other storage unit and get the ammunition. Then you can load it. We had a series of home invasions here a few years back. I started keeping an 18 inch adjustable wrench by the door. I figure if I had to wallop someone with it, that they would probably stay down for a few minutes.

[naturalmanwa]

I agree with the above comments that YOU are the only one who can respond in an emergency to save yourself. For all who own a gun, TRAINING is important and cannot be overemphasized. I have owned guns for over 50 years and was trained by my father and other professional soldiers and still keep guns for target shooting and protection.

As for the comments about the police, all I can say is it is far different than in the movies or the old west in our present system. The same with the courts.

[Redtan]

I started keeping an 18 inch adjustable wrench by the door. I figure if I had to wallop someone with it, that they would probably stay down for a few minutes.

Long enough for you to get your gun?:D

When valour disappears evil prospers.

[Keith58]

Mark Twain was a smart man.

"The government is not best which secures mere life and property--there is a more valuable thing--manhood."
- Mark Twain's Notebook

[Boreas]

It would be nice if things were so simple that having or not having a gun or having or not having police protection were the answer. There are so many variables in this case. Hasn't there been more information that has come out to explain some of the background information of this man who did the shooting? Of course, that does not make it easier for the victims, nor does it excuse his killing those people. Knowing some of this might help provide the supports and tools that might have helped prevent this tragedy.

Having a gun in your home increases the odds that you will be shot with it yourself. I see no reason to have a firearm as a protection in your home. For one thing, how many times have you actually had an invader in your home or neighbourhood?

You are better off with a phone by your bed and a dog that barks.

Of course, I am biased. I am a pacifist Canadian liberal tree-hugger. :rolleyes: I am also the daughter of a police officer who was shot with his own gun just after I was born. I have also served in the Canadian Army Reserve and was quite competent with a variety of firearms, and I was qualified as a range safety officer. I do not speak out of ignorance.

[Naturist Mark]

Our regional police service has a starting base salary of $53,000
and the average salary for a constable is $66,000

Staff officers run around $130,000 to $170,000

At that, they don't even cadge for free donuts and coffee.

Wow, that is about twice or more than many US officers receive. A few years ago one of our local communities had a small scandal when it was revealed that some of their rookies qualified for food stamps.

On the whole officers are not poorly paid, but they aren't getting rich either.

<div style="background:white;color:#333;font:normal 11pt Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;text-align:center;border:1px solid #96b9d7;padding:5px;width:510px"><a href="http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Police_or_Sheriff's_Patrol_Officer/Salary/by_Years_Experience" style="color:#06C;text-decoration: none;font-weight:bold;">Median Salary by Years Experience - Job: Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officer (United States)</a><a href="http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Police_or_Sheriff's_Patrol_Officer/Salary/by_Years_Experience"><img src="http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Police_or_Sheriff's_Patrol_Officer/Salary/by_Years_Experience.jpg" alt="Median Salary by Years Experience" border="0" /></a><div style="margin: 5px; font: normal 8pt Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;">Compare your salary: <a href="http://www.payscale.com" style="color:#06C;text-decoration:underline">Get a free Salary Report</a></div></div>

[Sanslines]

Mark,

I don't think that national average salaries are accurate enough to really be representative. It also depends on what kind of police someone is referring to.

Binghamton NY City Police: A probationary patrol officer’s salary is $33,193, and benefits are roughly $13,300.

New York State Police Officer: A New York State Police Officer’s starting salary at the Academy is $50,374. Upon Academy graduation the salary increases to $61,525. After five years as a New York State Police Officer the salary increases to $77,218. This position also includes excellent health, dental, and optical insurance coverage as well as retirement at half pay after 20 years.

[Skinview]

Having a gun in your home increases the odds that you will be shot with it yourself.Duh. An armed policeman is more likely to be shot with his own gun than an unarmed policeman. (As you know all too well.) That tells us nothing about whether its a good idea to have a gun to protect yourself. Do you want to disarm the police? And calling the police increases the chance that a police officer will accidently shoot you because he misidentifies you as a criminal. BTW, the police are 5.5 times more likely to accidentaly shoot an innocent person to death then a nonpolice individual is.

I see no reason to have a firearm as a protection in your home. For one thing, how many times have you actually had an invader in your home or neighbourhood?Does this mean I don't have to wear a seat belt if I haven't been in a traffic accident? Its hard to determine exactly what the ratio is between gun accidents and uses of firearms for defense. The best data we have indicates that there are 2.5 million defensive uses of firearms in the US every year. And there is no telling how many times a crime never happened because some crook was afraid he would get shot by a homeowner. The burglery rate is lower in the US than in Great Britain.

You are better off with a phone by your bedUnh, didn't I write something already about what happens when you dial 911?

and a dog that barks.Actually, a dog is a very good crime deterent. Of course not everyone is able to be, or ought to be, a dog owner. On the other hand, I got my first carry permit soon after my neighbor's pit bull escaped and ran about in my front yard. My son was two at the time.

[NudeAl]

It would be nice if things were so simple that having or not having a gun or having or not having police protection were the answer. ..... I see no reason to have a firearm as a protection in your home. For one thing, how many times have you actually had an invader in your home or neighbourhood?

You are better off with a phone by your bed and a dog that barks.

To each his own I say live and let live. In my neck of the woods there is one deputy sheriff to cover almost 100 square miles. I have a loaded 12 gauge shotgun behind the door and a loaded 45 in the night stand by the bed and for walking around I carry a S&W 38 Special. I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop. I heard of an older neighbor down the road had his place broken into they tied him up and beat the crap out of him and robbed him. Poor guy was just getting by not sure what he will be able to do. Neat trick the thieves are trying is to knock on the door and when the person goes to answer another guy kicks in the back door. As times get tougher we will see more and more acts of violence. I choose not to be a victem.

[countryguync]

It seems the police aren't going to risk their lives to save us. After they arrived at the scene of the Binghamton, NY shooting, they did nothing.

"Police heard no gunfire after they arrived but waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008979044_aphostageshooting.html

People were dying inside the building, and for all the police knew, there was a killer inside with countless more potential victims, but the police waited outside to be sure it was safe for themselves. If you are facing a killer, the only one who is going to save you is yourself or someone else there who has the means to shoot back. Call 911, and you get a cleanup crew and yellow tape installers.
For those of you who did not hear about the shooting at the Nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina. There was one officer on patrol that day and he was the first to arrive at the scene. He went inside and confronted the shooter, was shot in the foot and returned fire, hitting the shooter in the chest. ONE OFFICER ON HIS OWN. He then tackled the shooter and held him down until more help arrived. The bad guy had multiple firearms on him, had killed 8 and wounded some others. the death toll could have been MUCH higher. Bad guy now in hospital ward of Central prison in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[Skinview]

For those of you who did not hear about the shooting at the Nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina. There was one officer on patrol that day and he was the first to arrive at the scene. He went inside and confronted the shooter, was shot in the foot and returned fire, hitting the shooter in the chest. ONE OFFICER ON HIS OWN. He then tackled the shooter and held him down until more help arrived. The bad guy had multiple firearms on him, had killed 8 and wounded some others. the death toll could have been MUCH higher. Bad guy now in hospital ward of Central prison in Raleigh, North Carolina.Thats what the police should do. But that didn't help the eight who were dead before he got there. If a staff member or a visitor had a gun, some of those lives might have been saved.

[Ken Palmer]

Hello Oldman. If that is the case, why does it say on the police cars in our country "To serve and protect?" Hey, by the time you get the gun ready to fire, the other guy has already killed you!

Ken Palmer



That is something few people are aware of. Police have no duty to protect.

Of course here in civilised Canada, it is frowned on to have a gun for Personal Protection. If you do have a handgun, it has to be locked away, with the ammunition locked away each in separate lockups. And the handgun must have a trigger lock. So legally to protect yourself, you must first open one storage unit and remove the handgun, second unlock the trigger lock, then go to the other storage unit and get the ammunition. Then you can load it. We had a series of home invasions here a few years back. I started keeping an 18 inch adjustable wrench by the door. I figure if I had to wallop someone with it, that they would probably stay down for a few minutes.

[Fitz1980]

Hello Oldman. If that is the case, why does it say on the police cars in our country "To serve and protect?"

These days I think that it should say "To collect and serve" as it seems that the local cops are more interested in nailing as many people as possible for as many minor offenses as possible (expired tag, speeding down an empty road, failure to come to a full stop, possession of marijuana, ect) and than get you into the court system where you have to pay fees and fines to the county/city out the nose.

[Paniga]

These days I think that it should say "To collect and serve" as it seems that the local cops are more interested in nailing as many people as possible for as many minor offenses as possible (expired tag, speeding down an empty road, failure to come to a full stop, possession of marijuana, ect) and than get you into the court system where you have to pay fees and fines to the county/city out the nose.

Well all those thing you just said are breaking the law and as for speeding down a empty road here not long ago a kid was killed on a bike coming out of a trail at the side of the road cause of a speeding drive the polce said with the skid marks left the drive was doing almsot twice the speed limit.

[Boreas]

Skinview, ridicule me if you like. Carry a firearm if you like. That speaks volumes about your society. If it is necessary to carry a firearm in your world, I do not want to live there.

I live in a community that is served by the RCMP. I am not sure if you are aware of the bad press they are getting lately. I have met some good cops and bad cops, here and other places. I am still not going to get a firearm.

As for the car crash, you are far more likely to be involved in a crash than be shot by an intruder. And yes, I wear a seatbelt. I live in a place of big trucks and drive a small car. I have had the "pleasure" of doing some deer hunting with said small car. I have also heard all the stories about people drinking and driving along the Alaska Highway on the way home from the oilpatch......I need whatever bit of protection I can get.

[Skinview]

Skinview, ridicule me if you like. Carry a firearm if you like. That speaks volumes about your society. If it is necessary to carry a firearm in your world, I do not want to live there.I like where I live, and I'm not letting anyone chase me out. For one reason, its about as safe where I live as it is anywhere else. I rarely carry a firearm, but I like to have the option and the freedom. Some places are far more dangerous than others, and none is completely safe, even wherever it is that you live. It is not necessary to carry a firearm anywhere, but neither is wearing a seatbelt. I'd like to live in a world where I don't have to worry about being killed by a drunk driver, but we are stuck with this one world. It has plenty of drunk drivers and murderers and other criminals of all sorts. Burying your head in the sand doesn't make them go away.

As for the car crash, you are far more likely to be involved in a crash than be shot by an intruder.There are about 42,000 highway fatalities per year in the US. There are over 16,000 homicides in the US every year, down from 24,700 in 1991. Thats not "far more likely". There are about 1,400,000 violent crimes per year overall, including rapes, assault and battery, and so forth. I've never been seriously injured in a car crash or by assault, but there have been incidents with both in my life.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

And yes, I wear a seatbelt. ......I need whatever bit of protection I can get.I own a gun. I need whatever bit of protection I can get.

[Boreas]

Burying your head in the sand doesn't make them go away.

It is not burying my head in the sand. I am well aware of the dangers out there. I just happen to believe that living with a fear based, paranoid mentality is not useful. While I know that drunk drivers are there, I also know there is little I can do about them on a day to day basis. I do get to make some sort of difference with my work, and that is good enough for me. At the same time, I hold no illusion that I will cure people. I can increase awareness, and hopefully influence the people with whom I work. I am not going to go out an buy a Hummer thinking that some kind of armed vehicle might help me.

I prefer to see the fact that life is actually more safe than dangerous. Life is a crap shoot. I strongly believe that guns, locks and such create the need for more of those items. I choose to not add to the violence. Call me naive, I can handle it. You would be wrong with that label.

If I am faced with an intruder in my home, well, I guess I will have to figure out how to respond then.......without a gun.

[Daveinct]

There are good cops and bad cops.

When a woman (not a resident) was being beaten in the apartment across the hall from me, I called 911. Within literally a minute, the first officer arrived. He entered that apartment alone, with no idea if the man beating her was armed. No more than 30 seconds passed before two more policemen arrived. In under 3 minutes, there were at least 7 or 8 officers here. The man was taken away in handcuffs, but released the next day, I presume bailed out.

A couple of weeks ago, two friends of the woman who actually lives across the hall were seen first urinating in public around the corner, then smoking crack in our yard. I arrived home as two policemen were searching them. End result was that the guys who were smoking crack in our yard were let go, while my downstairs neighbors and I were treated in a thoroughly unprofessional, rude and dishonest manner. The officer, among other things, told us that the crack pipe which he made them smash in the yard was unused, so the broken glass on the ground was not a risk to the children that play in the yard.

It all depends on who answers the call.

Dave

[NudeAl]

Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away.