Swine Flu

[Navigator]

This is the website for the Centers for Disease Control:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/investigation.htm

[Fitz1980]

"Relax, I've been involved in every ridiculous T.V.-induced panic there is. Poison pills, SARS, West Nile, North Face, South Fork, East River, monkeypox, pop rocks, toilet snakes, mad cow, bird flu, swine flu, and, quite frankly, every other flu that you could really only catch if you're actually fornicating with the animal it's named for."

-Dr. Perry Cox
"Scrubs"

[Naturist Mark]

Is it safe to eat bacon and pork?

Let's just assume this question is not a joke ...

The Swine Flu (also known as H1N1) outbreak is not food borne - you catch it just like any other form of flu - from exposure to infected people. Your food is just as safe (or unsafe) as ever.

What is alarming about this outbreak is its similarity to the swine flu that killed millions of people worldwide 90 years ago.

So far this flu is only known to have infected a bit over 1000 people, 20 of whom have been confirmed to have been killed by it, and possibly 68. This is a very small outbreak so far, but with an unusually high mortality rate.

This is not yet even an epidemic - there are only 11 confirmed cases in the US and no deaths, but in Mexico there have been several dozen deaths - mostly in otherwise healthy young adults which is unusual. Flu usually only kills people with weakened immune systems such as the elderly and infirm. Still, there is no reason to panic about this Swine Flu - yet. Like Bird Flu it may never become a real menace.

Unlike the case in 1918 when there were no drugs effective against swine flu, we have two anti-viral drugs - Tamiflu and Relenza - that are effective against this strain of flu. Manufacturers are readying stockpiles for deployment if needed - Mexico already has enough Tamiflu to treat 1 million people.

It is not known if the current flu vaccine is effective against this strain, but the CDC has begun steps to produce a specific swine flu vaccine if necessary.

Returning to the question at the top ... No you won't get swine flu from eating pork products. But there is a buzz going around that there is a hidden epidemic of food poisoning in the US. Jay Leno was just hospitalized by it. I have had two bouts with probable food poisoning in recent months. CDC statistics show nothing unusual in food poisoning cases reported in 2008, but I've heard a lot of anecdotal reports from health care people about a spike in the last few months. Even without a spike, about 1 in 4 Americans are struck by a food-borne illness every year (http://www.santamariatimes.com/articles/2009/04/25/opinion/042509b.txt). So wash your veggies and make sure your meat is cooked at least to medium. You won't catch swine flu, but listeria is no treat.

-Mark

[mmacdonaldca]

The death toll is rising in Mexico and there are now several cases popping up across the US. Canada is testing 100s who have been vacationing in Mexico and the southern US. Even today, locally testing is being carried out on student in the region who were vacationing in Mexico. I think the lesson to learn is prevention. Be careful where you travel, take precautions before you go and do not panic! As mentioned in Fitz quote, the media love to run with these things. If you are healthy and usually can ward off the flu, you should be fine. If you are really concerned, ask your doctor!

[Naturist Mark]

The CDC's latest report (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53P1LC20090426) puts the number of confirmed cases of H1N1 in the US at 20.

[Sanslines]

The death toll is rising in Mexico and there are now several cases popping up across the US. Canada is testing 100s who have been vacationing in Mexico and the southern US. Even today, locally testing is being carried out on student in the region who were vacationing in Mexico. I think the lesson to learn is prevention. Be careful where you travel, take precautions before you go and do not panic! As mentioned in Fitz quote, the media love to run with these things. If you are healthy and usually can ward off the flu, you should be fine. If you are really concerned, ask your doctor!

It's a world wide pandemic! The media is reporting widespread worldwide fear, panic, and chaos. Beware and avoid all human contact. Doctors are clueless. The media just reported that this may be a sign of the end of the world as is revealed in the "Book of Revelations". Typhoid Mary is on the move again.

[Bob S.]

The actual number of cases in the US may actually be more than what is reported. The swine flu looks like the ordinary flu. Only by asking if the patient has been to Mexico or been around someone who has been can there be a diagnosis. Without that question, there is no way, without a viral test which is rare, to say that it is swine flu.

Bob S.

[brainyguy9999]

If you are healthy and usually can ward off the flu, you should be fine.

That's not necessarily true.

I am on the corporate Disaster Recovery team where I work. Until a couple of months ago, I was the team leader for our company. I stepped down due to workload, but am still on the team. Pandemic (Bird Flu as well as other pandemic situations) is on the list of things that we have planned for and are planning for on an ongoing basis, so we have had our eye on this situation. This is what we know from the CDC (CDC news briefing transcript from 4/24/2009 http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090423.htm as well as updated information from WHO):

1) This flu is like no other ever seen before. It is a combination of genetic material from 4 other strains - "The first is our North American swine influenza viruses. North American avian influenza viruses, human influenza viruses and swine influenza viruses found in Asia and Europe."

2) The CDC does not know if current flu vaccines offer any protection against the new strain, but the assumption is that it does not.

3) Whereas seasonal flu contraction and fatalities are highest in immune suppressed individuals, such as elderly and very young, the statistics for this strain of flu sees it infecting the relatively young and healthy. Cases in the U.S. are 9 years old to 54 years old. (Demographic information for cases in Mexico were not in the CDC briefing, but WHO may have that data publicly available soon.)


The following are the assumptions and guidance we have derived for our corporation based on the information available as of Saturday, April 25. Much of the recommendations are taken from health advisories in 1918-1919 during the "Spanish Flu" outbreak (interestingly traced back to Ft Riley in Kansas and is believed to have been caused by a mutation of an Avian Influenza virus) and information from later epidemics.

1) Follow normal CDC guidelines for seasonal flu prevention - Wash hands thoroughly after contacting any surface that an ill person may have touched before touching your mouth or eyes or before touching anything you intend to eat. Surfaces can be door handles, computer keyboards or public terminals (ATMs, security access panels, etc.), microwave keypads and handles, etc.

2) Avoid closed spaces such as elevators if an outbreak is occurring in your area. Although the elevator may be empty, an ill person may have recently exited and contaminated air could still be circulating. Use stairs if possible and wash your hands after touching the handrail.

3) Avoid hugging, kissing, sharing drinks or utensils, or shaking hands with someone who has any symptoms consistent with respiratory illness (runny nose, red or runny eyes, coughing, sore throat, or sneezing).

4) Avoid large gatherings of people if there is an active outbreak in your area. These include movie theaters, malls, buses, subways, sports gatherings, concerts, conferences, etc.

5) If you have the flu or a respiratory infection of any kind, DO NOT report to work. Advise your supervisor of your absence and see your physician if necessary.

6) If you believe you have come into contact with an infected individual, wash your hands as soon as possible and avoid contacting your eyes and mouth. Be alert for symptoms within the next 7 days and see a physician if symptoms are noticed.



There is no need to panic. This appears to be a virus that is spread like the normal seasonal flu, so the spread can be prevented in the same manner. There is speculation that the high mortality rate in Mexico is due to additional factors, such as poor medical treatment, poor people who cannot afford medical treatment, and lack of diagnostic ability to identify the new strain and treat it accordingly. At this point, there have been NO fatalities in the U.S.

As of this morning, there have been cases confirmed in Mexico, the U.S., New Zealand, and Canada.

At this point, it appears to be resistant to two anti-viral flu treatments that are available. "The viruses are resistant to amantadine and rimantadine anti-viral drugs but they are sensitive or susceptible to oseltamivir and zanamivir, the newer anti-viral drugs for flu." (CDC News briefing). Oseltamivir is Tamiflu, as Naturist Mark said.

However, like with treatment of seasonal flu, anti-viral flu treatments are most effective when administered BEFORE symptom onset or very early in the life cycle of the virus. They can best be used to treat people who have come into contact with infected individuals to stop or slow the spread of the virus before those people show symptoms. In most cases, administering an anti-viral to someone who has seasonal flu is a waste because they typically don't see a doctor until the infection is at or near its peak. The anti-viral helps in the later stages, but by that point, the body (assuming normal immune response) is already fighting the virus off and will naturally eliminate it within a few days. The difference is typically only one or two days of symptoms.

Some medical professionals argue that administering the anti-viral at that point only increases that chance of a strain that is not susceptible to the anti-viral will emerge and spread to others in contact with the individual.

So, I would not expect anti-virals to be rushed onto main street to fight this. I would expect it to be used in conjunction with quarantined areas where "hot spots" of infection are found.

The best thing we can do is to be alert to the situation and follow the updates and guidelines that the CDC issues. A lot of people have a rebellious streak in them that makes them think that everything "the government" tells them is bad, so they won't do anything that "the government" says. But in this case, I think it is in the best interest of everyone to follow the guidelines and information that the CDC publishes. The information comes from hard-working and knowledgeable scientists that are trying to keep this outbreak from getting worse.

It is generally accepted that that the 1918-1919 "Spanish Flu" outbreak killed
20 million to 40 million people worldwide ( http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/ and http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/1918flu/ ). However, newer research has suggested that the number is closer to 100 Million people worldwide due to the massive death toll in India and the lack of recording of death statistics.

Hopefully, we can prevent such an event from occurring again. But we can only do so if people follow basic medical guidelines to prevent the transmission of the virus.

Stay calm, stay clean, stay healthy, and stay nude!!

bg

[Navigator]

The BBC has posted what they claim are several first-hand accounts of the situation in Mexico City today. Unfortunately, the article doesn't say where or how they got these accounts or how they verified their authenticity...or even if they they verified the authenticity.

So...take these accounts for what they're worth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8018428.stm

[brainyguy9999]

So...take these accounts for what they're worth.

I agree. After reading a few posts by supposed Doctors, I am confident that at least some are not doctors at all. I can't claim to know the purpose for their claiming to be a doctor and posting such information, but it is not helpful.

One, in particular, caught my eye:


I work as a resident doctor in one of the biggest hospitals in Mexico City and sadly, the situation is far from "under control". As a doctor, I realise that the media does not report the truth. Authorities distributed vaccines among all the medical personnel with no results, because two of my partners who worked in this hospital (interns) were killed by this new virus in less than six days even though they were vaccinated as all of us were. The official number of deaths is 20, nevertheless, the true number of victims are more than 200. I understand that we must avoid to panic, but telling the truth it might be better now to prevent and avoid more deaths.
Yeny Gregorio Dávila, Mexico City

First, there is no vaccine available for this virus yet because it is an entirely new variation. It would take several weeks to create such a vaccine. In fact, Mexican health officials had no clue that this was a new virus until the CDC found it in the U.S. and asked Mexican health workers to send some samples to the U.S. test facilities. The U.S. has since sent diagnostic equipment to Mexico City to help in identifying the new virus in currently sick people.

Also, as a "doctor", he should know that immunizations take from 2 to 4 weeks for your system to develop full immunity effects from the injection. Also, even at "full immunity", you can still contract the virus you were immunized from. However, the infection will be fought off more quickly because your body already has antibodies created for it.

The CDC has been very clear to say that the numbers it gives are "confirmed" cases. They must test and be sure that the virus is present before the case is added to their numbers. So, I don't doubt that the number of cases "confirmed" is much less than the actual number of infections/deaths. On the flip-side, though -- It is important to point out that there may be thousands of people that are infected that show NO symptoms whatsoever and, thus, will never be added to the numbers. So, the fatality rates reported could be much higher than they truly are just because of under-reporting of non-serious cases.

Thanks for posting the link. It is interesting to hear from the real people on the ground there. I'm sure it is a quite scary situation for them to be in, especially when they are given little information about what is going on.

Stay nude!

bg

[maxnude]

The national news just said that one of the persons the U.S. President met with in Mexico City has died of this "Swine Flu" or complications resulting from pneumonia and flu.

Heard on Bob Brinker's money talk show on KGO San Francisco & KGO News 4-26-2009 3:00 - 3:30 PM PST

[Navigator]

I agree. After reading a few posts by supposed Doctors, I am confident that at least some are not doctors at all. I can't claim to know the purpose for their claiming to be a doctor and posting such information, but it is not helpful. One, in particular, caught my eye:...


Good point. One of the first things that made me a little concerned about the authenticity of this article was the use of the word "soccer" in one of the first hand accounts. Mexican's say "futbol" and most wouldn't think of using the word "soccer".

Also, there's a sameness to all of the accounts. I've lived in Mexico and I know several Doctors. Despite their education, they usually write English with small grammer and syntax errors or with words written in a Spanish accent...like most people writing in a second language would do. These BBC accounts are all pretty much perfect English and none of them have indications of someone writing in a second language....at least to me.

Maybe they've just been over-edited by the BBC.

In any case, that's why I put in the "for what they're worth" comment.

[naturush]

I'm with Fitz1980. The economy has "hit bottom", time for another world fear! I say let's talk about aliens in the oceans next!!!!!

[Naturist Mark]

<blockquote>WASHINGTON (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/26/us-declares-public-health_n_191523.html) — The U.S. declared a public health emergency Sunday to deal with the emerging new swine flu, much like the government does to prepare for approaching hurricanes.

At a White House news conference, Besser and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano sought to assure Americans that health officials are taking all appropriate steps to minimize the impact of the outbreak.

Top among those is declaring the public health emergency. As part of that, Napolitano said roughly 12 million doses of the drug Tamiflu will be moved from a federal stockpile to places where states can quickly get their share if they decide they need it. Priority will be given to the five states with known cases so far: California, Texas, New York, Ohio and Kansas.

Napolitano called the emergency declaration standard operating procedure _ one was declared recently for the inauguration and for flooding. She urged people to think of it as a "declaration of emergency preparedness."

"Really that's what we're doing right now. We're preparing in an environment where we really don't know ultimately what the size of seriousness of this outbreak is going to be."</blockquote>

[Naturist Mark]

I'm with Fitz1980. The economy has "hit bottom", time for another world fear! I say let's talk about aliens in the oceans next!!!!!

http://www.truveo.com/HST-UFO-Files-Deep-Sea-UFOs-Red-Alert1avi/id/271565995

[Sanslines]

Is Swine Flu "The Big One"?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30422676


"Is this the next big global flu epidemic that public health experts have long anticipated and worried about? Is this the novel virus that will kill millions around the world, as pandemics did in 1918, 1957 and 1968?"

Yes it is! We are all doomed!! Prepare for the end before it is too late!!!

[Ken Palmer]

Hello curiousgeorge. According to the website provided, it is safe to eat and prepare pork as long as it is done in the normal manner. It cannot be spread by food alone, according to the CDC.

Ken Palmer




Is it safe to eat bacon and pork?

[Naturist Mark]

Yes, some of the coverage of H1N1 is getting over the top. I suspect this will be as big a plague as SARS was ... but that isn't the point. Like SARS or Bird Flu, this is a potential epidemic - which our government is moving rapidly to forestall or prepare for - as is proper.

I wouldn't get too worried about it. We'll know soon enough if we need to change that.

Now about those underwater UFOs ... have you seen this? Atlantis or underwater ufo base found? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfjRg9qq-hA)

[Sanslines]

EU WARNING: Do Not Travel To The USA Or Mexico:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30431245

[Naturist Mark]

Swine Flu - Don't Panic (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-dehn/swine-flu---dont-panic_b_191538.html)

[Sanslines]

Swine Flu - DO PANIC!!

Global panic over swine flu:

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,9909,2-10-1462_2507584,00.html

Panic sweeps over the globe as people don't believe US government. US begins border checks for swine flu.

http://cbs5.com/national/us.swine.flu.2.995310.html

[MoonShadow]

LOL

The media must be bored if it is resorting to such laborious postings of swine flu. The swine flu has been around for a few decades -- since the scare back in 1976 or 1979. Swine flu is not new.

[FreeinNJ]

I thought this was not a big deal? Very treatable

[BinCo]

AHHHHHHHHH WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!:eek::eek:


......Someday. :laugh:






I sense an "I am Legend" moment coming on.

[Navigator]

Swine influenza

The Emergency Committee, established in compliance with the International Health Regulations (2005), held its second meeting on 27 April 2009.


The Committee considered available data on confirmed outbreaks of A/H1N1 swine influenza in the United States of America, Mexico, and Canada.

The Committee also considered reports of possible spread to additional countries.

On the advice of the Committee, the WHO Director-General decided on the following.

The Director-General has raised the level of influenza pandemic alert from the current phase 3 to phase 4.


The change to a higher phase of pandemic alert indicates that the likelihood of a pandemic has increased, but not that a pandemic is inevitable.

As further information becomes available, WHO may decide to either revert to phase 3 or raise the level of alert to another phase.

This decision was based primarily on epidemiological data demonstrating human-to-human transmission and the ability of the virus to cause community-level outbreaks.

Given the widespread presence of the virus, the Director-General considered that containment of the outbreak is not feasible. The current focus should be on mitigation measures.

The Director-General recommended not to close borders and not to restrict international travel.

It was considered prudent for people who are ill to delay international travel and for people developing symptoms following international travel to seek medical attention.

The Director-General considered that production of seasonal influenza vaccine should continue at this time, subject to re-evaluation as the situation evolves. WHO will facilitate the process needed to develop a vaccine effective against A/H1N1 virus.

The Director-General stressed that all measures should conform with the purpose and scope of the International Health Regulations.
-

On edit: The definition of the World Health Organization's Alert Phase Levels is here: http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/phase/en/index.html

[brainyguy9999]

LOL

The media must be bored if it is resorting to such laborious postings of swine flu. The swine flu has been around for a few decades -- since the scare back in 1976 or 1979. Swine flu is not new.

See my post above. This is not the same "swine flu" as was seen before. Although all 4 components of this flu have been around for years, this is the first time that they have combined in this fashion. We have never seen this virus before. So, we don't know what it's going to do. It could be a dud, or it could kill hundreds of millions. We just don't know at this point.

Stay nude!!

bg

[Dolby]

This is a new flu virus. The good news is that there are medications available that so far seem very effective in treating it. I think the concern is that it is spreading so rapidly and easily, and flu viruses tend to mutate quickly. We just need to be prepared. The response is not to panic, although the media is quickly losing sight of this, but for medical facilities to ready themselves.

The last real flu pandemic happened so long ago people have mostly forgotten. Certain strains of the flu can be deadly.

[Naturist Mark]

LOL

The media must be bored if it is resorting to such laborious postings of swine flu. The swine flu has been around for a few decades -- since the scare back in 1976 or 1979. Swine flu is not new.

The reason to be concerned about swine flu is because it has a long history - far more than a few decades. In 1918 there was a worldwide swine flu pandemic (then called "Spanish Flu", but it has been identified as virtually the same H1N1 virus present today, and was the source of every serious flu epidemic since). It infected 1/3rd of the human race and killed over 50 million people - about 10% of those infected. Over 2/3rds of a million Americans died. It is considered the worst pandemic in human history - even though the Black Death of the 14th and 15 centuries killed more over the 200 years that it ravaged the world, the Swine flu outbreak of 1918 did so in just 6 months.

The potential danger is NOT being overhyped.

But that doesn't mean that this strain of H1N1 is as virulent as the 1918 strain ... current data suggests that it is not. There is no evidence that the sky is falling. There is good reason to take this outbreak very seriously, but not to be scared.

[Naturist Mark]

Swine-flu outbreak could be linked to Smithfield factory farms (http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-25-swine-flu-smithfield/)

Flu Pandemic Preparedness Was Stripped From Stimulus Bill (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/gop-stripped-flu-pandemic_n_191732.html)

[Sanslines]

The Swine Flu has set off widespread panic, regardless of reports to the contrary. Americans are avoiding trips to Mexico and the borders are being very closely watched. The world is on 'high alert'. The World Health Organization has raised crisis level to level 4 (in a range of 1 to 6). It is only a matter of time before an official worldwide pandemic will be declared.

Swine flu spreads to Asia, Middle East

Cases confirmed in New Zealand, Israel after officials raise alert level


".........
The virus poses a potentially grave new threat to the U.S. economy, which was showing tentative early signs of a recovery. A widespread outbreak could batter tourism, food and transportation industries, deepening the recession in the U.S. and possibly worldwide.
Putting an alert at phases 4 or 5 signals that the virus is becoming increasingly adept at spreading among humans. That move could lead governments to set trade, travel and other restrictions aimed at limiting its spread.

Phase 6 is for a full-blown pandemic, characterized by outbreaks in at least two regions of the world.

The last pandemic, a Hong Kong flu outbreak in 1968, killed about one million people around the world....."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30398682/?GT1=43001

[Navigator]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aReU0cGRSRiM&refer=home

[nakedstudent]

This is the website for the Centers for Disease Control:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/investigation.htm

If you look at the response from Washington, there really isn't much of a reason to be optimistic about containing the outbreak.

1. Even before the US had confirmed cases, Homeland Security officials hadn't closed the border, claiming that it was impossible to contain the virus. Even Cuba has ceased flights to Mexico.

2. The CDC has been rather useless. If an American still needs to be told to "wash your hands" and "avoid contact with others if you're infected," then we really do deserve the disease.

3. Obama, et. al. have blatantly politicized this outbreak, pointing at people who disagree on more fundamental terms with medical and scientific research.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/obamas-call-to-create-not-just-consume/?em

"At such a difficult moment, there are those who say we cannot afford to invest in science, that support for research is somehow a luxury at moments defined by necessities. I fundamentally disagree. Science is more essential for our prosperity, our security, our health, our environment, and our quality of life than it has ever been before."

There was no discussion of opposing viewpoints on this specific outbreak as it relates to research. He kind of lumped research into broad terms. Disagreements with stem cell research is "fundamentally" different from viewpoints on viral infections. This is the polarizing attitude that we hoped to put behind us with his election.

I think there was tremendous opportunity for bipartisan work on this topic. Coordination between the state and fed hasn't even been discussed. Instead, DHS has recently targeted the republican governor of Texas as a "radical conservative terrorist" (as they have also done with pro life people and returning war vets.)

This is why I fundamentally disagree with a large federal government. There has been very little concrete action taken to control the problem. All anyone has done is throw mud and point fingers. Just today there was a story about the actions of the Texan government and also towns across the border who have done more than all federal agencies added together.

[Naturist Mark]

If you look at the response from Washington, there really isn't much of a reason to be optimistic about containing the outbreak.

I thought the Limbaugh line was that this was all a Dem plot to scare people. Are we supposed to believe that is true AND that we are not responding strong enough at the same time? At least we got the "Close the Borders" part in there, injecting some sub-rosa racism (http://www.alternet.org/rights/138859/michelle_malkin_and_michael_savage_use_swine_flu_c risis_to_peddle_their_xenophobia/) is always a good idea.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>M - Th 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225153&title=the-last-100-days'>The Last 100 Days</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:225153' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Clusterf%23%40k+to+the +Poor+House'>Economic Crisis</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Barack+Obama'>First 100 Days</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[nakedstudent]

I thought the Limbaugh line was that this was all a Dem plot to scare people. Are we supposed to believe that is true AND that we are not responding strong enough at the same time? At least we got the "Close the Borders" part in there, injecting some sub-rosa racism (http://www.alternet.org/rights/138859/michelle_malkin_and_michael_savage_use_swine_flu_c risis_to_peddle_their_xenophobia/) is always a good idea.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>M - Th 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225153&title=the-last-100-days'>The Last 100 Days</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:225153' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Clusterf%23%40k+to+the +Poor+House'>Economic Crisis</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Barack+Obama'>First 100 Days</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

1. I don't listen to Limbaugh. I have no idea what his take was. Even if he proposed hat liberals would use this to push their agenda, he has legitimate citations to use. At one time or another, Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Hussein Obama have all said "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Emanuel was especially revealing when he said "It will let you do things you didn't previously immagine."

2. Temporarily closing the border until this flu strain passes does not equate to immigration reform. The primary duty of the US federal government is to protect the people already here. The best way to do that is to minimize the threat of the virus by keeping it out.

3. I do not agree with some of Savage's views regarding this topic. I do not however believe it it racist to say that people coming from the country where this virus originated are a potential carrier of the disease. It's a factually accurate assertion. Denying it because it may offend somebody is irresponsible.

How does one get AIDS if not from a person or contaminated needle? Does that mean it is hateful to say that people with AIDS are a potential threat to the health of the rest of the country? No. Responsibility is thinking about those people who aren't infected right now and doing what we can to keep us that way while also sending as many resources for the benefit of infected individuals.

4. Thoughts on the lack of coordination between states, local, and federal resources? Or the fact that the CDC has done nothing to control the disease? Or how about how Homeland Security has done nothing to keep us secure in this instance?

[Fitz1980]

1. I don't listen to Limbaugh. I have no idea what his take was. Even if he proposed hat liberals would use this to push their agenda, he has legitimate citations to use. At one time or another, Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Hussein Obama have all said "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Emanuel was especially revealing when he said "It will let you do things you didn't previously immagine."


Citations please? I ask only because you gave no cite and most of what you are attributing to them sounds more like what Bush & co did after 9/11.

[Navigator]

WHO RAISES SWINE FLU ALERT TO 'PANDEMIC LEVEL 5'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30398682/

The World Health Organization has raised its pandemic alert for swine flu to the second highest level, meaning that it believes a global outbreak of the disease is imminent.

WHO says the phase 5 alert means there is sustained human-to-human spread in at least two countries. It also signals that efforts to produce a vaccine will be ramped up.

WHO has confirmed human cases of swine flu in Mexico, the United States, Canada, Britain, Israel, New Zealand and Spain. Mexico and the U.S. have reported deaths.

WHO Director-General Margaret Chan made the decision Wednesday to raise the alert level from phase 4 — signifying transmission in only one country — after reviewing the latest scientific evidence on the outbreak.

"It is important to take this very seriously," Chan told a press conference watched around the globe on Wednesday.

As fear and uncertainty about the disease ricocheted around the globe, nations took all sorts of precautions, some more useful than others.

Britain closed a school after a 12-year-old girl was found to have the disease. Egypt slaughtered all its pigs and the central African nation of Gabon became the latest nation to ban pork imports, despite assurances that swine flu was not related to eating pork.

Cuba eased its flight ban, deciding just to block flights coming in from Mexico. And Asian nations greeted returning airport travelers with teams of medical workers and carts of disinfectants, eager to keep swine flu from infecting their continent.

In Mexico City, the epicenter of the epidemic, the mayor said Wednesday the outbreak seemed to be stabilizing and he was considering easing the citywide shutdown that closed schools, restaurants, concert halls and sports arenas.

Swine flu is suspected of killing more than 150 people in Mexico and sickening over 2,400 there.

Nearly 100 cases have now been confirmed in the U.S. across 11 states, and health officials reported Wednesday that a 23-month-old Mexican boy had died in Texas.

Across Europe, Germany confirmed three swine flu cases and Austria one, while the number of confirmed cases rose to five in Britain and ten in Spain.

WHO conducted a scientific review Wednesday to determine exactly what is known about how the disease spreads, how it affects human health and how it can be treated.

Dr. Nikki Shindo, a WHO flu expert, said the review would focus on the large trove of data coming from Mexico and from a school in New York City that has been hard-hit by the outbreak.

Germany’s national disease control center, the Robert Koch Institute, said the country’s three cases include a 22-year-old woman hospitalized in Hamburg, a man in his late 30s at a hospital in Regensburg, north of Munich, and a 37-year-old woman from another Bavarian town. All three had recently returned from Mexico.

Austria’s health ministry said a 28-year-old woman who recently returned from a monthlong trip to Guatemala via Mexico City and Miami has the virus but is recovering.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said health officials were ordering extra medicine and “several million more” face masks to deal with the virus.

British media reports, citing an unidentified European surgical mask manufacturer, said the U.K. was seeking 32 million masks to protect its health workers from a possible pandemic.

“We’ve decided to build stocks of anti-virals, from 35 million to 50 million,” Brown said, adding that the government had put in enhanced airport checks and was going to mail swine flu information leaflets to every household in Britain.

In addition to a couple in Scotland who got swine flu on their Mexican honeymoon, new British cases included a 12-year-old girl in the southwest English town of Torbay. Brown said her school had been closed as a precaution.

He said the other two cases were adults in London and in Birmingham. All three had visited Mexico, were receiving anti-viral drugs and were responding well to treatment, Brown said.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy met with Cabinet ministers to discuss swine flu and his health minister said France will ask the European Union to suspend flights to Mexico.

The U.S., the European Union and other countries have discouraged nonessential travel to Mexico. Cuba suspended all regular and charter flights from Mexico to the island but was still allowing airlines to return travelers to Mexico.

New Zealand’s number of swine flu cases rose to 14, 13 of them among a school group that recently returned from Mexico. Officials say the swine flu strain infecting the students is the same as that in Mexico. All were responding well to antiviral drugs and in voluntary quarantine at home.

New Zealand has 44 other possible cases, with tests under way.

Mexico was taking drastic measures to fight the outbreak. It closed all archaeological sites and allowed restaurants in the capital to only serve takeout food in an aggressive bid to stop gatherings where the virus can spread. Schools remained closed until at least May 6.

A regional beach soccer championship in Mexico was postponed and all Mexican first-division soccer games this weekend will be played with no audiences. Cruise lines were avoiding Mexican ports and holiday tour groups are canceling holiday charter flights there.

The Philippine health chief appealed to dozens of Filipino legislators to abandon plans to visit Las Vegas to cheer for boxing idol Manny Pacquiao — even though Las Vegas is more than 300 miles (480 kilometers) from the Mexican border.

Egypt’s government ordered the slaughter of all pigs in the country as a precaution, though no swine flu cases have been reported there. Egypt’s overwhelmingly Muslim population does not eat pork, but farmers raise up to 350,000 pigs for its Christian minority.

In Australia, officials were testing more than 100 people with flu symptoms for the virus and the government gave health authorities wide powers to contain contagious diseases.

“(We can make) sure that people are isolated and perhaps detained if they don’t cooperate and are showing symptoms,” said Health Minister Nicola Roxon.

[Cheri]

-----Original Message-----
From: USC Human Resources [mailto:USCHR@mailbox.sc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:31 PM
To: All Faculty and Staff
Subject: Swine Flu Update

In response to the swine flu outbreak, the University is communicating with local, state and federal health and emergency officials about safety and prevention methods.

As the University monitors the situation, faculty and staff are urged to help by being proactive in protecting themselves and others. The best way to do this is by using preventive hygiene measures, such as covering your cough and washing your hands frequently.

However if you develop flu-like symptoms, please stay at home and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them. This basic measure is recommended by the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the S.C. Department of Health and Environmental Control.

According to CDC guidelines, a person who develops a flu-like illness should self-isolate for seven days after the onset of illness or for at least 24 hours after symptoms have stopped, whichever is longer.

The symptoms of swine flu in people are expected to be similar to the symptoms of regular human seasonal flu and include:

> fever greater than 100 degrees
> sudden onset of dizziness
> fatigue, lack of appetite
> headache and body aches
> cough and sore throat
> nausea,vomiting and diarrhea.

If you experience flu symptoms, remain at home and call your doctor. Again, good health habits like covering your cough and washing your hands often can help stop the spread of germs and prevent respiratory illnesses like the flu.

Additional tips on personal prevention measures and updates about the swine flu outbreak are linked from the University’s website at http://www.sc.edu

[FreeinNJ]

so we are at Level 5 of 6? that is not good.

[Navigator]

There are at least two pretty good websites for anyone wanting more information about the Flu Pandemic including discussions, suggestions on preparing, support, WHO and CDC announcements, articles from knowledgeable sources, etc. They are:

www.flutrackers.com

www.fluwiki.com

[Fitz1980]

I think there was tremendous opportunity for bipartisan work on this topic. Coordination between the state and fed hasn't even been discussed. Instead, DHS has recently targeted the republican governor of Texas as a "radical conservative terrorist" (as they have also done with pro life people and returning war vets.)

The governor of Texas suggested secession as a viable course of action to protest a tax cut for 95% of the population and a 4% raise on 5% of the population.

"Pro-life" people have and do murder doctors because they believe that God told them to.

What do you mean returning war vets?

Oh BTW Obama's people have also singled out left-wing extremists as potential threats, so is being honest and comprehensive a cardinal sin now?

<blockquote>
<a href="http://therealbillmaher.blogspot.com/2009/04/gop-divorced-from-reality.html">
Bill Maher - The GOP Divorced From Reality.

If conservatives don't want to be seen as bitter people who cling to their guns and religion and anti-immigrant sentiments, they should stop being bitter and clinging to their guns, religion and anti-immigrant sentiments.</a>

It's been a week now, and I still don't know what those "tea bag" protests were about. I saw signs protesting abortion, illegal immigrants, the bank bailout and that gay guy who's going to win "American Idol." But it wasn't tax day that made them crazy; it was election day. Because that's when Republicans became what they fear most: a minority.

The conservative base is absolutely apoplectic because, because ... well, nobody knows. They're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore. Even though they're not quite sure what "it" is. But they know they're fed up with "it," and that "it" has got to stop.

Here are the big issues for normal people: the war, the economy, the environment, mending fences with our enemies and allies, and the rule of law.

And here's the list of Republican obsessions since President Obama took office: that his birth certificate is supposedly fake, he uses a teleprompter too much, he bowed to a Saudi guy, Europeans like him, he gives inappropriate gifts, his wife shamelessly flaunts her upper arms, and he shook hands with Hugo Chavez and slipped him the nuclear launch codes.

Do these sound like the concerns of a healthy, vibrant political party?

It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be the party of the big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, a socially awkward group of mostly white people who speak a language only they understand. Like Trekkies, but paranoid.
</blockquote>

[nakedstudent]

The governor of Texas suggested secession as a viable course of action to protest a tax cut for 95% of the population and a 4% raise on 5% of the population.

"Pro-life" people have and do murder doctors because they believe that God told them to.

What do you mean returning war vets?

Oh BTW Obama's people have also singled out left-wing extremists as potential threats, so is being honest and comprehensive a cardinal sin now?

<blockquote>
<a href="http://therealbillmaher.blogspot.com/2009/04/gop-divorced-from-reality.html">
Bill Maher - The GOP Divorced From Reality.

If conservatives don't want to be seen as bitter people who cling to their guns and religion and anti-immigrant sentiments, they should stop being bitter and clinging to their guns, religion and anti-immigrant sentiments.</a>

It's been a week now, and I still don't know what those "tea bag" protests were about. I saw signs protesting abortion, illegal immigrants, the bank bailout and that gay guy who's going to win "American Idol." But it wasn't tax day that made them crazy; it was election day. Because that's when Republicans became what they fear most: a minority.

The conservative base is absolutely apoplectic because, because ... well, nobody knows. They're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore. Even though they're not quite sure what "it" is. But they know they're fed up with "it," and that "it" has got to stop.

Here are the big issues for normal people: the war, the economy, the environment, mending fences with our enemies and allies, and the rule of law.

And here's the list of Republican obsessions since President Obama took office: that his birth certificate is supposedly fake, he uses a teleprompter too much, he bowed to a Saudi guy, Europeans like him, he gives inappropriate gifts, his wife shamelessly flaunts her upper arms, and he shook hands with Hugo Chavez and slipped him the nuclear launch codes.

Do these sound like the concerns of a healthy, vibrant political party?

It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be the party of the big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, a socially awkward group of mostly white people who speak a language only they understand. Like Trekkies, but paranoid.
</blockquote>

http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/04/16/texas-gov-perry-speaks-at-anti-obama-tea-party-says-texas-may-secede/

Republican governor of Texas, Rick Perry spoke at an Austin “tea-party” event yesterday, organized by conservative groups and Fox News to protest taxes and bailout spending, and perhaps got a little carried away, suggesting that Texans may get so fed up with the federal government, it may want to secede from the union. Governor Perry’s strident message whipped the conservative crowd into a frenzy as they yelled, “secede!”

Appearing at a decidedly anti-democrat crowd, with protesters holding signs saying, “Stop Obama’s Socialism,” Governor Perry called for a return to states’ rights, deriding the federal government, calling audience members patriots. Perry’s rhetoric was met with flag waving and cheering.

Perry went on to say that the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt, abandoning the founding principles of limited government.

In a later interview, Perry said when Texas entered the union in 1845 it was with the understanding it could secede any time it wanted. However, historians say no, that’s not true. The Civil War should have resolved that issue for Texas.

Political observers have noted that Perry’s remarks have ratcheted up in the right-wing rhetoric department, as he prepares for a re-election battle with Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. Last week Perry held a press conference supporting a resolution of states’ rights protected in the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Perry also rejected $550 million in federal economic stimulus money intended for the unemployed of his state, saying taking the money would put his state in debt.

Governor Perry is certainly doing all he can to appeal to the red-meat core of his conservative base. However, no one is expecting Texas to actually try and secede; besides being illegal, it’s a pretty bizarre notion to support in this modern age.

Perry has no more intention of seceding than the Manning brothers have of playing 2 sports:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCpNVQEn6rY

On the extremist memos:

The positions that were outlined in the "conservative" memos were much more specific and profiling.

http://video1.washingtontimes.com/video/extremismreport.pdf

For example, the one point suggests that only conservatives can be racist. I have a student who classifies himself as a liberal but admits to racism. Furthermore, trying to use that classification when so many people of all ethnicity showed up at the Tea Parties, charges of racism being purely conservative is absolutely ludicrous.

Another point says that people who value gun rights are only conservative individuals. There are many democrats, independents, and others who are pro second amendment.

Yet another point says that conservatives will be pressured by economic times. Rough economic times are transcendent of political ideology.

Conservative arguments about immigration is nothing more than asking current laws to actually be enforced. For far too long the current statues have had little more enforcement than a sieve.

And a pro life position (on some level) is much more mainstream than many people think.

It all seemed rather sophomoric to read though.

[Fitz1980]

Appearing at a decidedly anti-democrat crowd, with protesters holding signs saying, “Stop Obama’s Socialism,” Governor Perry called for a return to states’ rights, deriding the federal government, calling audience members patriots. Perry’s rhetoric was met with flag waving and cheering.

Also taken from Maher's article



The GOP base is convinced that Obama is going to raise their taxes, which he just lowered. But, you say, "Bill, that's just the fringe of the Republican Party." No, it's not. The governor of Texas, Rick Perry, is not afraid to say publicly that thinking out loud about Texas seceding from the Union is appropriate considering that ... Obama wants to raise taxes 3% on 5% of the people? I'm not sure exactly what Perry's independent nation would look like, but I'm pretty sure it would be free of taxes and Planned Parenthood. And I would have to totally rethink my position on a border fence.

I know. It's not about what Obama's done. It's what he's planning. But you can't be sick and tired of something someone might do.

Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota recently said she fears that Obama will build "reeducation" camps to indoctrinate young people. But Obama hasn't made any moves toward taking anyone's guns, and with money as tight as it is, the last thing the president wants to do is run a camp where he has to shelter and feed a bunch of fat, angry white people.

And if today's conservatives are insulted by this, because they feel they're better than the people who have the microphone in their party, then I say to them what I would say to moderate Muslims: Denounce your radicals. To paraphrase George W. Bush, either you're with them or you're embarrassed by them.

[Naturist Mark]

1. I don't listen to Limbaugh. I have no idea what his take was. Even if he proposed hat liberals would use this to push their agenda, he has legitimate citations to use. And what evil agenda would they be pushing?
2. Temporarily closing the border until this flu strain passes does not equate to immigration reform. The primary duty of the US federal government is to protect the people already here. The best way to do that is to minimize the threat of the virus by keeping it out. Most of the early cases of H1N1 in the US were traced to a group of Catholic school students who returned from a spring break trip to Mexico. Should we have not let them back into the US? And now that the virus is already in the US, do we deport anyone diagnosed with it, citizen or not? Or how about US citizens, like those Catholic school kids, who might be sick, or definitely are sick? Deny them entrance? Really?

The problem the know-nothings don't want to acknowledge is that by the time we identify a pathogen that should be guarded against, it is usually already here. Too late to close the barn door.
3. I do not agree with some of Savage's views regarding this topic. I do not however believe it it racist to say that people coming from the country where this virus originated are a potential carrier of the disease. It's a factually accurate assertion. Denying it because it may offend somebody is irresponsible.Who says it originated in Mexico? That is just where we first noticed this outbreak, but this strain, called "Swine Flu" however accurately or not (it also has some elements of Avian Flu and others), is a decendent of the H1N1 virus that swept the world in 1918 in the worst epidemic in recorded history - that was called "Spanish" flu at the time. Shall we also quarantine Spain?

There have been a few thousand confirmed cases of H1N1 flu in Mexico. Mexico has a population of 110 million. So all Mexicans are plague carriers? And similarly, should France or Canada close their borders to Americans?

Would Mexico be willing allow our sick Catholic School kids to stay in Mexico if we don't let them come home?

"Closing the Border" is racist nativist BS.

Wingnuts can't resist linking immigrants to swine flu (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/fox-wingnuts-cant-resist-linking-imm)

How does one get AIDS if not from a person or contaminated needle? Does that mean it is hateful to say that people with AIDS are a potential threat to the health of the rest of the country? No. Responsibility is thinking about those people who aren't infected right now and doing what we can to keep us that way while also sending as many resources for the benefit of infected individuals. The AIDS epidemic first became a major recognized disease in the United States. Yet the United States at one time had a policy of refusing to allow foreign travelers who were HIV positive to enter the US - which even resulted in scientists in the field of AIDS research being unable to attend US government sponsored conferences on preventing AIDS. There was no danger of those travelers introducing the AIDS epidemic to the US, it was already here. That policy actually hurt the US, and set back the fight against AIDS. It was based on fear and homophobia, just as today's calls to "close the border" are based on unacknowledged (or even unrecognized) racism.
4. Thoughts on the lack of coordination between states, local, and federal resources? Or the fact that the CDC has done nothing to control the disease? Or how about how Homeland Security has done nothing to keep us secure in this instance?What "fact" that the CDC has done "nothing"? I call BS on that statement. Unless by "nothing" you mean that the CDC has fully mobilized its staff and resources.

Flu Pandemic Preparedness (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/gop-stripped-flu-pandemic_n_191732.html)
GOP Senators filibustering confirmation of Health and Human Services Secretary (http://enviroknow.com/thesource/2009/04/28/the-politics-of-a-potential-pandemic-sebelius-smithfield/), assistant secretary for health affairs and chief medical officer, and the leaders of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Transportation Security Administration and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, all of which would play significant roles in battling a pandemic. (note: Secretary Sebelius' nomination was finally approved late yesterday after being held up for two months).

[brainyguy9999]

so we are at Level 5 of 6? that is not good.

No, not good at all. Hopefully the virus continues to infect everyone and is easily treatable with anti-virals and it is fought off by normal immune systems. If that continues to be the case, then a majority of the world could become immunized by the virus itself before it mutates into a more dangerous one.

Unfortunately, people are contagious for 3 days before symptom onset. So, even if someone stayed home from work or school when they came down with symptoms, they could have spread the virus for 3 days prior to that.

I think this is going to spread like wildfire. The only way to try to slow it down is to get people to wash their hands after touching anything that anyone else could have touched - doorknobs, elevator buttons, workplace microwaves, workplace printers, gas station pumps, ATM keypads, money, and even takeout food wrappers.

And, yes, most people need to be told to wash their hands. Several studies have found that between 25% and 40% of Americans don't wash their hands after using the restroom. The percentages for hand washing are generally higher for women than men, as men evidently don't believe that urinals are dirty. :eek:

So, yes, people need constant reminders to wash their hands after touching things that others touch because they are simply picking up the germs and moving them elsewhere. Germs on a urinal could go to the door handle, then to the elevator button, then to the cafeteria microwave button. Next thing you know, you've just spread urinal germs on your Hot Pocket. Yummy.

And the same for someone who sneezes into their hand and then forks over a $5 for a Whopper. That $5 goes into the register, then out to the next customer who gets it as change. Have it your way...

Like I said before, I just hope that it stays relatively benign while it makes its rounds and inoculates everyone before becoming more fatal. Sure, even in a relatively benign form, there will be a lot of deaths, but hopefully we won't see anything as potent at the 1918-1919 Spanish Flu.

Stay clean, stay informed, and stay nude!

bg

[nakedstudent]

And what evil agenda would they be pushing?

Not so much an agenda. It's having priorities in the wrong place and making baseless connections between controlling a potential epidemic and completely unrelated immigration reform.

If the safety of the US citizenry was really at the Fed's heart, they would temporarily close the border. Period. This doesn't mean we would never allow a Mexican to come here legally. It just means that we're protecting ourselves.



Most of the early cases of H1N1 in the US were traced to a group of Catholic school students who returned from a spring break trip to Mexico. Should we have not let them back into the US? And now that the virus is already in the US, do we deport anyone diagnosed with it, citizen or not? Or how about US citizens, like those Catholic school kids, who might be sick, or definitely are sick? Deny them entrance? Really?

This is not a border issue. It's a parental issue. With all the problems with drugs and violence in Mexico these days, there is no reason for any American school kids to be in Mexico. This is another indication of parents dropping the ball.



The problem the know-nothings don't want to acknowledge is that by the time we identify a pathogen that should be guarded against, it is usually already here. Too late to close the barn door. Who says it originated in Mexico? That is just where we first noticed this outbreak, but this strain, called "Swine Flu" however accurately or not (it also has some elements of Avian Flu and others), is a decendent of the H1N1 virus that swept the world in 1918 in the worst epidemic in recorded history - that was called "Spanish" flu at the time. Shall we also quarantine Spain?

This is like saying that we shouldn't try to prevent further oil from leaking from an oil tanker in the case of an oil spill. It's completely absurd to say that the first few people here is a big enough reason to not cut the rest of the potential threat off.

Should a doctor say "You know I'm not going to isolate, treat, and hopefully heal the cancer of my patient because it's already started to spread a little bit."

It makes no sense at all to make that argument.

Rejecting flights and boats from Spain in 1918 would have been an excellent idea. It worked for countries like Japan who restricted travel during the time. They had one of the lowest mortality rates.



There have been a few thousand confirmed cases of H1N1 flu in Mexico. Mexico has a population of 110 million. So all Mexicans are plague carriers? And similarly, should France or Canada close their borders to Americans?

Actually, history really reveals that the origination of Spanish Flu may have been Kansas, Austria, or the Middle East.



Would Mexico be willing allow our sick Catholic School kids to stay in Mexico if we don't let them come home?

"Closing the Border" is racist nativist BS.


I think we should send as much aid as we can to our citizens down there, but at some point, they are responsible for the circumstances they're in. The dangers of traveling in Mexico are well documented these days. I'm sick and tired of this attitude that it's the president's responsibility to fix every single citizen's individual problems. It most definitely is NOT Obama's responsibility to do that for his own people LET ALONE for citizens of another country.



What "fact" that the CDC has done "nothing"? I call BS on that statement. Unless by "nothing" you mean that the CDC has fully mobilized its staff and resources.

Flu Pandemic Preparedness (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/gop-stripped-flu-pandemic_n_191732.html)
GOP Senators filibustering confirmation of Health and Human Services Secretary (http://enviroknow.com/thesource/2009/04/28/the-politics-of-a-potential-pandemic-sebelius-smithfield/), assistant secretary for health affairs and chief medical officer, and the leaders of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Transportation Security Administration and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, all of which would play significant roles in battling a pandemic. (note: Secretary Sebelius' nomination was finally approved late yesterday after being held up for two months).

The fact that the disease was not controlled as soon as Mexico revealed just how bad it was (by my recollection on either Thursday or Friday of last week) points directly to the failure of the CDC.

As far as the secretaries go, there are several positions in the new administration that Obama hasn't even NOMINATED people for!!! So you're going to use Republican criticism of Sebelius who failed to pay $8,000 in taxes and lord knows how many other Geithner/Daschle types as a way to point fingers at the minority for being in the way?

That's just low.

My focus is not on the people at all. I'm looking only at the virus. It's pretty clear that quarantining the virus means restricting the number of people who come in contact with it.

I don't think "Wash your hands." counts as "fully mobilizing" anything.

[nakedstudent]

Also taken from Maher's article

Responding to the tax increase bit:

We'll just have to see which economic data is correct. If the Obama administration's data is correct, views may change. But the CBO has an excellent track record. If their numbers are as accurate this time around as they have been in the past, there will be no way Obama can keep spending money at the rate he is without raising taxes. Nobody wants our debt anymore.

About Re-education:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700

It isn't the government's role to fund any civilian national security force and certainly not to set up volunteer camps. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is more evidence of the decay of the parental institution.

[brainyguy9999]

Should a doctor say "You know I'm not going to isolate, treat, and hopefully heal the cancer of my patient because it's already started to spread a little bit."

It makes no sense at all to make that argument.


I agree that it's too late to close the border. The virus is in and is spreading. To use your analogy, it would be like a doctor saying: "Okay, the cancer we found in your leg has spread to your lungs. So, we're going to cut off your leg to prevent it from spreading. Problem solved. You'll have no more cancer." Uh, no. Like it or not, the virus is HERE. The only countries that it would benefit to close borders are the ones that do not have any cases and can reasonably close ALL access points. That is RARE in this day and age. Cuba has stopped flights from Mexico, but people travel there via Canada and South America all the time. Canada has cases now too, so they need to move quickly if they are to stop entry. Of course, it might be too late already, since it can take 1 to 4 days for incubation and another 3 days for symptoms to show.

We cannot stop it from coming into the U.S. because it's already here. We must try to slow the spread among U.S. citizens and treat the people who become symptomatic.



The fact that the disease was not controlled as soon as Mexico revealed just how bad it was (by my recollection on either Thursday or Friday of last week) points directly to the failure of the CDC.

If you've watched any of the CDC briefings, you'll know that Mexico didn't know they had a new strain until Canada analyzed the isolets and determined a new strain. Almost simultaneously, the CDC had found two cases in San Diego and the Atlanta CDC lab determined that it was a novel strain. Mexico sent the samples to Canada for analysis because they were seeing higher than normal respiratory infections. Since we (North America) are coming out of the annual flu season, and since respiratory infection rates normally fluctuate during flu season, they didn't see anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't until they noticed an increase in infections when statistics showed that they should be declining when they realized something else might be going on. That's when they sent the samples to Canada for analysis to see what it was that they were dealing with. At that point, it was too late.

By the time the three countries put Canada's and the U.S.'s analysis together and realized what they were looking at (which was hours, and not days), the virus was already in the U.S. and had already traveled around the world via airline flights. The train had already left the station, so to speak.



My focus is not on the people at all. I'm looking only at the virus. It's pretty clear that quarantining the virus means restricting the number of people who come in contact with it.

I agree. That's why we should be focusing on social distancing in the U.S. communities where the virus shows up (which is being done by closing schools and isolating families at home during the infection) AND by preventing the spread by following simple sanitary procedures, like washing your hands before you stick the virus up your nose or in your mouth. :P


I don't think "Wash your hands." counts as "fully mobilizing" anything.

That's not all they are doing. If you think that, then you need to read the WHO website and the CDC website. Also check out the pandemic planning pages on state government websites for NY, CA, and TX for starters. You'll see that this planning has been going on for years. The federal government has 50 million courses of Tamiflu stockpiled and have released 25% of that stockpile (Around 12.5 million courses) to states so they can treat emerging cases quickly. This is in addition to the state stockpiles that are in place. They are also in the process of unraveling the genetics of the virus and creating seed stock to begin work on growing vaccine materials.

There is a tremendous amount of work being done by CDC workers, healthcare workers, emergency responders, pandemic planners, and local governments on this. To discount all of the work being done to combat this threat is, at the very least, disrespectful to the men and women working around the clock to try to prevent a massive worldwide death toll.

Stay INFORMED, stay clean, and stay nude!

bg

[Fitz1980]

About Re-education:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700

It isn't the government's role to fund any civilian national security force and certainly not to set up volunteer camps. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is more evidence of the decay of the parental institution.

No offense but linking to a tin foil hat conspiracy article does nothing to prove your point. I could link to a million websites that have articles about "building 7" and how "Bush planned 9/11" but that would not make either of those things true.

[Naturist Mark]

And what evil agenda would they (Democrats) be pushing?
Not so much an agenda. It's having priorities in the wrong place and making baseless connections between controlling a potential epidemic and completely unrelated immigration reform.

Ummmmm .... I don't think you have been paying attention.
It wasn't the Democrats who were making connections between the H1N1 outbreak and immigration.

Conservative media baselessly blame swine flu outbreak on immigrants (http://mediamatters.org/items/200904270037?f=h_latest)
Immigrant Haters Promote Flu Hysteria (http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2009/04/28/immigrant-haters-promote-flu-hysteria/)
Virus Brings Swine-Hearted Lobby Into Foreground (http://promigrant.org/diary/666/virus-brings-swinehearted-lobby-into-foreground)

[nakedstudent]

Ummmmm .... I don't think you have been paying attention.
It wasn't the Democrats who were making connections between the H1N1 outbreak and immigration.

Conservative media baselessly blame swine flu outbreak on immigrants (http://mediamatters.org/items/200904270037?f=h_latest)
Immigrant Haters Promote Flu Hysteria (http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2009/04/28/immigrant-haters-promote-flu-hysteria/)
Virus Brings Swine-Hearted Lobby Into Foreground (http://promigrant.org/diary/666/virus-brings-swinehearted-lobby-into-foreground)

You're completely wrong. I listened to the Savage episode live. His entire focus during the entire thing was on the control of the virus. He also made much more concrete suggestions about combating the disease (which he is completely credible to do judging by his doctorate). He recommended things like increasing vitamin C intake and also dietary modifications that would help to increase the immune system's defense.

Closing the borders in this instance is not a political suggestion. I welcome legal immigrants. I think they're awesome. They do nothing but add to the culture of the US (which it greatly needs especially after watching Obama give the queen of England an Ipod.) Illegals are a different story not because they're of a different race, but because the word illegal means they have broken THE LAW!!!

In this case though, at the very least requiring immigrants to get tested for the virus before entering the country would be a common sense approach. It only takes 4 or 5 days to get results. It also takes protecting people like you and me who would otherwise be perfectly isolated. Sure there might be a few people who develop symptoms and show more viral contamination after they get in, but a testing policy at the border would be a much better thing than allowing the status quo down there to go on.

Incidentally, the marines quarantined 30 members in CA due to one having the swine flu. Do you view this as "discrimination" the way you see shutting the border down as racism? There is no legitimate difference between these two cases besides to size of the problem and the fact that even legal immigrants are not always citizens.

[nimrod]

You all have it wrong. This is nothing more then the drug companies proporganda machine at work. How else are they going to sell their product if there is not a pandemic. Vacines are not enough for them, they have to sell more so the swine flu is introduced into the public again.

For years they have been promoting anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers in an attempt to make more people germaphobic, when the whole time they are just making us sicker because we also kill off the good bacterias that guard us from becoming sick, and starting the process of making supergerms that are resistant to the anti-bacterial products that are out there.

Think about it people.

[Naturist Mark]

Ummmmm .... I don't think you have been paying attention.
It wasn't the Democrats who were making connections between the H1N1 outbreak and immigration. You're completely wrong. I listened to the Savage episode live. His entire focus during the entire thing was on the control of the virus.

Uh Huh ...

<blockquote>During the April 24 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage stated: "Make no mistake about it: Illegal aliens are the carriers of the new strain of human-swine avian flu from Mexico." Savage also stated, "If we lived in saner times, the borders would be closed immediately." Savage went on to theorize that the outbreak might be part of a bioterrorism threat: "[C]ould this be a terrorist attack through Mexico? Could our dear friends in the radical Islamic countries have concocted this virus and planted it in Mexico knowing that you, [Homeland Security Secretary] Janet Napolitano, would do nothing to stop the flow of human traffic from Mexico?" Savage continued: "[T]hey are a perfect mule -- perfect mules for bringing this virus into America. But you wouldn't think that way, would you? Because you are incapable of protecting America's homeland, Napolitano." Savage also stated: "How do you protect yourself? What can you do? I'll tell you what I'm going to do, and I don't give a damn if you don't like what I'm going to say. I'm going to have no contact anywhere with an illegal alien, and that starts in the restaurants." He added, "I will have no any illegal alien workers around me. I will not have them in any of my properties, I will not have them anywhere near me."</blockquote>

[Boreas]

In this case though, at the very least requiring immigrants to get tested for the virus before entering the country would be a common sense approach. It only takes 4 or 5 days to get results. It also takes protecting people like you and me who would otherwise be perfectly isolated. Sure there might be a few people who develop symptoms and show more viral contamination after they get in, but a testing policy at the border would be a much better thing than allowing the status quo down there to go on.

Many of the people who have spread the disease have been tourists returning home. Would you suggest that they also get tested before coming home? How would you suggest that they be handled if the not be allowed to re-enter their own country?

[Naturist Mark]

Many of the people who have spread the disease have been tourists returning home. Would you suggest that they also get tested before coming home? How would you suggest that they be handled if the not be allowed to re-enter their own country?

Jason Linkins (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/swine-flu-a-mexican-immig_n_193707.html) sums it up pretty well:
<blockquote>As near as anyone knows, the recent outbreaks of swine flu in the United States have been the result of <a href="http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/43774827.html">Americans</a>, <a href="http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr/25/251947/swine-flu-cases-confirmed-kansas-probable-ny/news-breaking/">returning to America</a>, <a href="http://www.wkyc.com/news/health/health_article.aspx?storyid=112358&amp;catid=7">from Mexico</a>, <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090426.htm">to where they live</a>, <i>in America</i>. This makes a certain sense -- the larger outbreak is in Mexico, American tourists often travel to Mexico, most prefer to return home at some point. </blockquote>

Media Matters put together a clipfest of wingnuts waxing xenophobic over H1N1

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2uaK4ZXvClE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2uaK4ZXvClE&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[nakedstudent]

Uh Huh ...

<blockquote>During the April 24 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage stated: "Make no mistake about it: Illegal aliens are the carriers of the new strain of human-swine avian flu from Mexico." Savage also stated, "If we lived in saner times, the borders would be closed immediately." Savage went on to theorize that the outbreak might be part of a bioterrorism threat: "[C]ould this be a terrorist attack through Mexico? Could our dear friends in the radical Islamic countries have concocted this virus and planted it in Mexico knowing that you, [Homeland Security Secretary] Janet Napolitano, would do nothing to stop the flow of human traffic from Mexico?" Savage continued: "[T]hey are a perfect mule -- perfect mules for bringing this virus into America. But you wouldn't think that way, would you? Because you are incapable of protecting America's homeland, Napolitano." Savage also stated: "How do you protect yourself? What can you do? I'll tell you what I'm going to do, and I don't give a damn if you don't like what I'm going to say. I'm going to have no contact anywhere with an illegal alien, and that starts in the restaurants." He added, "I will have no any illegal alien workers around me. I will not have them in any of my properties, I will not have them anywhere near me."</blockquote>



This 7 minute clip had more serious suggestions than the CDC and DHS have put out COMBINED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aA_2lcjR6E

[nakedstudent]

Many of the people who have spread the disease have been tourists returning home. Would you suggest that they also get tested before coming home? How would you suggest that they be handled if the not be allowed to re-enter their own country?

It's better than saying "Why thank you kind sir. Oh you have 17 potentially deadly diseases that are communicable by simply breathing? Sure! Not a problem! Come right back in."


At some point, my right and your right to be protected from this potential epidemic should factor into the equation shouldn't they?

I maintain that my right to be healthy is much more important than a minor, 4-5 day inconvenience and cost of setting up a quarantine system near immigration checkpoints for legal returning citizens to make sure they are clean.

Halliburton has been so good at serving food to the troops, I'm sure Dick Cheney would have no arguments about accepting the contracts that the government would use to outsource feeding them.

[Naturist Mark]

Just a bit of perspective ...

36,000 Americans died from "regular" flu in last year. So far zero Americans have died from H1N1 (the one reported death was of a Mexican toddler who was brought to the US for medical treatment).

"Regular" flu probably kills about 10,000 Mexicans per year. So far there have been 7 confirmed deaths due to H1N1, with another 13 probable but not confirmed. Many of the other 160 or so that have been reported as possible H1N1 victims are likely victims of regular flu.

So far this is very far from being the great plague of the 21st Century. Odds are this will end up being just another ordinary average flu outbreak. The ONLY reason that there is any legitimate alarm is because of this strain of H1N1's similarity to the 1918 strain, and the atypical way its victims have been young and healthy rather than elderly and infirm - which was also a characteristic of the 1918 strain.

[Naturist Mark]

Many of the people who have spread the disease have been tourists returning home. Would you suggest that they also get tested before coming home? How would you suggest that they be handled if the not be allowed to re-enter their own country?It's better than saying "Why thank you kind sir. Oh you have 17 potentially deadly diseases that are communicable by simply breathing? Sure! Not a problem! Come right back in.

Really? Get sick and you can't come home? Really?

[NudeAl]

This is amazing to me. The Pig Flu or H1N1 if you prefer in deference to our swine brethren is nothing more than the natural order of things. If an organism over populates an area this is a one of the possible results. Now will it be the end of times? I freakin doubt it! However it will cause a certain amount of panic and disorder and even death. Closing the borders at this stage is akin to shutting the barn door after the critters have all left, i.e. stupid and will serv no purpose. Of course the mindless zombies who listen to ,"Fixed News," will find it very appealing since it would seem to vindicate their racist xenophobic tendencies. Such is life, I personnally believe if there is a bullet with your name on it you can not avoid your destiny, fate is a Mo Fo. OBTW we have four cases here in our area, let the party begin. Death smiles at everyone but Marines smile back.

[Ken Palmer]

Well, it looks like people are becoming more than a bit concerned regarding the spread of this disease. Here in the town I live in,San Bernardino, an elementary school was closed due to a student being diagnosed with a flu. But I am not sure if they confirmed if it was swine flu yet. Still, they took no chances. I heard this morning that two movie openings in Mexico were cancelled as a precaution. As expected, they are being impacted the hardest. Even one of the big cruise ship lines was diverted away. It may have been one of the Mexican Rivera cruise ships. But when you look at it, you can't really blame them. The 23-month in Texas who died recently visited Mexico before his death apparently. And now it has supposedly spread to Europe,including Germany, and even as far as Canada and New Zealand. Like I said, many people are really beginning to worry. I myself, I don't quite know where I stand on this yet. I am just saying a lot of prayers for us all.

Ken Palmer




This is the website for the Centers for Disease Control:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/investigation.htm

[Naturist Mark]

LA Times: Scientists see this flu strain as relatively mild (http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-swine-reality30-2009apr30,0,3606923.story)

<blockquote>As the World Health Organization raised its infectious disease alert level Wednesday and health officials confirmed the first death linked to swine flu inside U.S. borders, scientists studying the virus are coming to the consensus that this hybrid strain of influenza -- at least in its current form -- isn't shaping up to be as fatal as the strains that caused some previous pandemics.

In fact, the current outbreak of the H1N1 virus, which emerged in San Diego and southern Mexico late last month, may not even do as much damage as the run-of-the-mill flu outbreaks that occur each winter without much fanfare.
</blockquote>

[Sanslines]

If the media tells us that this is a world wide pandemic and that we are all doomed, then so be it.

[MoonShadow]

You know, all this hullabaloo over swine flu which has been with us since the late 70s. Flu strains change over time. '

Meanwhile, the real epidemic our globe has goes ignored --- AIDS. Where does the Fourth Estate, oops, the media stand on this? Not newsworthy anymore, I suppose.

[nimrod]

Meanwhile, the real epidemic our globe has goes ignored --- AIDS. Where does the Fourth Estate, oops, the media stand on this? Not newsworthy anymore, I suppose.

That is because there have not been any celebs diagnosed with HIV or AIDS latley.

[Boreas]

You know, all this hullabaloo over swine flu which has been with us since the late 70s. Flu strains change over time. '

Meanwhile, the real epidemic our globe has goes ignored --- AIDS. Where does the Fourth Estate, oops, the media stand on this? Not newsworthy anymore, I suppose.

And then there are the structural factors. Poverty. Health care. Etc. which get overlooked.

I was listening to the Canadian stats as of today. I can't remember the details, other than it is relatively few people. There are certainly other things that kill more people. Domestic violence being one.

[Navigator]

This is a pretty good L.A. Times article describing where we are today with H1N1 and what might happen going forward.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-swine-reality30-2009apr30,0,3606923.story

[nakedstudent]

Just a bit of perspective ...

36,000 Americans died from "regular" flu in last year. So far zero Americans have died from H1N1 (the one reported death was of a Mexican toddler who was brought to the US for medical treatment).

"Regular" flu probably kills about 10,000 Mexicans per year. So far there have been 7 confirmed deaths due to H1N1, with another 13 probable but not confirmed. Many of the other 160 or so that have been reported as possible H1N1 victims are likely victims of regular flu.

So far this is very far from being the great plague of the 21st Century. Odds are this will end up being just another ordinary average flu outbreak. The ONLY reason that there is any legitimate alarm is because of this strain of H1N1's similarity to the 1918 strain, and the atypical way its victims have been young and healthy rather than elderly and infirm - which was also a characteristic of the 1918 strain.

The lack of deaths so far is not an excuse to shrug off preparedness and proper precautions. The number of cases in the US so far has been relatively low (thank god) Even a higher percentage with such a limited number of cases could be misleading because of the small sample size.

I would be curious to see the data for Mexico as well. How does H1N1 death in Mexico compare to conventional flu?

[Naturist Mark]

I would be curious to see the data for Mexico as well. How does H1N1 death in Mexico compare to conventional flu?

That is a really good question

Flu is a very common illness, and there is no quick and cheap way to tell what strain of flu a patient has (yet). But of the 200 or so flu deaths in Mexico that were suspected of being due to H1N1 less than 10 were confirmed, and less than 20 are considered probable. Clearly the regular flu is killing a lot more Mexicans than H1N1. 20 out 10,000 flu deaths being due to this new strain is still pretty insignificant. - of course those 20 were over a single month and the 10,000 represents an entire year - but an annualized ratio of 240 over 10,000 is 0.024 - but that doesn't tell us anything about how high the mortality rate is among those infected with H1N1. In the USA that rate is currently zero, considerably less than "regular" flu.

I suspect that the recent news shows it is rather likely that this was all much ado about nothing, or at least very little. But the nature of these things is that there is very little surety until long after the events.

[Naturist Mark]

This is a pretty good L.A. Times article describing where we are today with H1N1 and what might happen going forward.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-swine-reality30-2009apr30,0,3606923.story

Yep, I linked to and quoted from that article in a post up the page a bit. :-)

In reference to the post above, that article does have some info about the mortality rate of regular flu:<blockquote>But certainly nothing that would dwarf a typical flu season. In the U.S., between 5% and 20% of the population becomes ill and 36,000 people die -- a mortality rate of between 0.06% and 0.24%. (corrected)</blockquote>

[Sanslines]

You know, all this hullabaloo over swine flu which has been with us since the late 70s. Flu strains change over time. '

Meanwhile, the real epidemic our globe has goes ignored --- AIDS. Where does the Fourth Estate, oops, the media stand on this? Not newsworthy anymore, I suppose.

Well none of this will matter anyway. Global warming continues to melt the polar ice caps, the oceans will rise, and all of our major coastal cities will be underwater. The end is coming........beware!

Why it has become so bad that even the Russians can not hide from the end of the world:

Corpse stench drives Russian doomsday cult from cave:

Toxic fumes from rotting corpses drove the final members of a Russian doomsday cult from the cave where they had been waiting six months for the end of the world, officials said Friday.

Eight women and one man emerged from the muddy bunker outside a village in the region of Penza, 560 kilometres (350 miles) southeast of Moscow (http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Corpse_stench_drives_Russian_doomsd_05162008.html# ), said Tatyana Ostrovskaya, a spokeswoman for the local prosecutor's office.

"The last nine people came to the surface after the bodies of two women were found," Ostrovskaya told AFP.

Interfax news agency quoted local official Vladimir Provotorov as saying that everyone left because there was "a real threat of poisoning from toxic corpse fumes" from two deceased cult members rotting in the cave.

"We could smell it through the ventilation shaft," he was quoted by RIA Novosti news agency as saying. "When the specialists took out the dead hermits, we asked the others if they would like to leave, and they agreed."

The cultists were part of an ultra-Orthodox Christian splinter group, led by bearded guru Pyotr Kuznetsov, who reject the modern world and believe that bar codes on food products are a symbol of the devil.

In November, 35 members followed Kuznetsov's orders to take refuge in the frozen underground labyrinth as he predicted the world would end on Orthodox Easter Sunday, April 27.

Taking candles, icons and headscarves, they threatened to blow themselves up with cooking gas canisters if authorities interfered.

After surviving the bitter Russian winter, fourteen emerged on April 1, including all four children, when part of their subterranean shelter collapsed in what they took to be a sign from God. Officials blamed water from melting snow.
Several others abandoned the cave in the following weeks as more chunks of the mud roof collapsed.

Kuznetsov himself waited above ground in a nearby wooden shack before he was committed to a psychiatric hospital with a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

After the world failed to end on schedule, Kuznetsov was found trying to commit suicide.
No journalists appear to have been present on Friday when the cult members left their cave or to have had contact with them since.

On Thursday night journalists were kept away from the cave as several cars arrived at the site, NTV television reported.

A sound engineer for the station who was keeping watch was beaten by members of the security forces, NTV said.

Those who emerged from the cave alive "are now being looked at by a doctor," Penza's deputy governor Oleg Melnichenko told the TV station. Three are citizens of Belarus, RIA Novosti reported.

Later, television pictures showed the mangled remains of one of the two dead women caked in mud and decomposing body parts wrapped in sheets after their excavation.
A member of the cult who had emerged earlier told ITAR-TASS that one had died after a severe fast, the other from an unknown illness.

"We are examining the bodies to see if we will open a criminal case," said prosecutor's office spokeswoman Tatyana Ostrovskaya.

Most of the sect members who left the cave earlier continue to await the end of the world at Kuznetsov's wooden cottage in the nearby village of Nikolskoye.


http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Corpse_stench_drives_Russian_doomsd_05162008.html

[richo]

As someone currently in Cancun, I can say I've been following the outbreak with pointed interest.

First off, the data coming out of Mexico is completely unreliable - to the point where the Mexican government is no longer releasing data. In addition to basically just guessing at possible cases, there're likely both a large number of unreported mild cases (extreme cases always slow up, mild ones almost never) as well as a lot of secondary issues - poor general health care, bad air quality, high altitude, etc. Until we get more data from the U.S. or other governments, you can't really judge the CFR.

Second, the WHO isn't there to report on the severity of the disease - they're there to advise governments on how to prepare/respond. Level 5 of 6 - which is really 2 of 3, with graduated levels of "1" - just means for governments to finalize preparations for a pandemic. It doesn't mean the disease is amazingly deadly.

Three, from what has been seen, this is fairly mild. That doesn't mean it won't cause problems. If 10% of the U.S. has to call in sick at once, there will be issues. Most of the steps being taken are to reduce that possibility or impact. However, you should make normal "emergency" preparations: fill your gas tank, stock up on food or medications. etc., just in case you get sick and need to isolate yourself. Quarantines - including closing borders - only works if the disease has a very short onset and you catch the initial infections as they happen; especially with a flu, they prove mostly useless.

Finally, if you want real updates on what's going on, check out the medicine and health section of scienceblogs (http://scienceblogs.com/channel/medicine/). These are real scientists, doctors, and professors talking about the real science - and beyond - of what is happening.

All in all, it's a flu - you'll hate it but probably survive. The only problem may come if lots of people get sick at once, which is possible and what the WHO is trying to stop.

[Naturist Mark]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RpQwtI5JHYM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RpQwtI5JHYM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[brainyguy9999]

I like it. :)

Stay informed, stay clean, and stay nude!

bg

[Bob S.]

According to a CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/03/swine.flu.react/) article, the hysteria may be worse than the actual flu. In some places, Emergency Rooms are being inundated with flu cases that are sometimes mild.

Even VP Biden hss adding to the hysteria by saying that he wouldn't go flying due to the ease of spreading germs. The only thing this hysteria is doing is practice for a real pandemic, but the fear is spreading much faster and is much worse than the flu. Everyone, including the media, needs to tke a deep breath and put this strain in proper perspective. When and if it does mutate and becomes more virulent, then we can become more concerned. Until then, let's get out of panic mode.

Bob S.

[nakedstudent]

According to a CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/03/swine.flu.react/) article, the hysteria may be worse than the actual flu. In some places, Emergency Rooms are being inundated with flu cases that are sometimes mild.

Even VP Biden hss adding to the hysteria by saying that he wouldn't go flying due to the ease of spreading germs. The only thing this hysteria is doing is practice for a real pandemic, but the fear is spreading much faster and is much worse than the flu. Everyone, including the media, needs to tke a deep breath and put this strain in proper perspective. When and if it does mutate and becomes more virulent, then we can become more concerned. Until then, let's get out of panic mode.

Bob S.

I think the Biden gaff just points to him not being satisfied with the administration's level of activity either.

That's just me though...

I was rolling on the floor when I heard Gibbs try to explain it though...

[Dolby]

Originally posted by nakedstudent:

"Republican governor of Texas, Rick Perry spoke at an Austin “tea-party” event yesterday, organized by conservative groups and Fox News to protest taxes and bailout spending,"


Why is Fox News organizing protests? So much for "fair and balanced!"

[Boreas]

Love Bill Maher's suggestion!

[Fitz1980]

Like the Bill Maher suggestion. As for Biden I think that Jon Stewart summed him up best a few months ago. When discussing political figures with large histories of 'foot in mouth disease' he said something to the effect of "this administration knows about that. They've got Joe Biden in the house, yesterday he asked the Chinese Ambassador if he knew General Tso.