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Sanslines
05-24-2009, 06:15 AM
California Breeds Dependency Culture

California, the sunny incubator of America's future, has relished its role as a leading indicator of political trends. Tuesday it became what it thinks it should be, the center of attention, but not in the way it wants to be.

Its voters, at last sensible, rejected, by an average of 65 percent, five of six propositions. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the "post-partisan" Republican, and the partisan Democrats who control the Legislature, promoted the propositions as efficient for and essential to eliminating the state's budget deficit, which will now be $21 billion. So California may become the next target for the Obama administration, whose dependency agenda involves seizing every opportunity to break things -- banks, insurance and automobile companies, etc. -- to the saddle of its supervision.

The Orange County Register -- if but one newspaper survives today's leveling winds, may it be this one -- made the case for rejecting all six propositions: 1A would have created an illusory spending cap that could be "easily circumvented by raising taxes" -- and the ballot language did not mention that 1A would have meant a $16 billion two-year extension of some of February's huge tax increases. Proposition 1B promised the public school lobby $9 billion, effectively bribing them to support 1A, which the California Teachers Association did. Proposition 1C combined "two of the worst practices responsible for" the state's dysfunction, "rosy revenue projections and borrowing": It would have authorized borrowing from (hypothetical) increases in state lottery revenues. Proposition 1D, "one more hide-the-pea fiscal deception," would have transferred to the general fund -- and much of it on to public employees -- revenues raised for children's programs. Proposition 1E would have done the same for revenues raised for mental health services.

Proposition 1F, passed by 73.9 percent, denies pay raises to legislators when the budget is not balanced. The Register opposed this because it gives legislators "a personal, financial incentive" to balance the budget by raising taxes.

Now California's mostly Democratic political class will petition Washington for a bailout to nourish the public sector that is suffocating the state's dwindling -- and departing -- private sector. The Obama administration, which rewarded the United Auto Workers by giving it considerable control over two companies it helped reduce to commercial rubble, will serve the interests of California's unionized public employees and others largely responsible for reducing the state to mendicancy.

These factions will flourish if the state becomes a federal poodle on a short leash held by the president. He might make aid conditional on the state doing things that California Democrats and their union allies would love to be "compelled" to do: eliminate the requirements of two-thirds majorities of both houses of the Legislature to raise taxes and pass budgets, and repeal Proposition 13, which voters passed in 1978 to limit property taxes. These changes would enable the Legislature (job approval: 14 percent) to siphon away an ever-larger share of taxpayers' wealth and transfer it to public employees. Such as prison guards, whose potent union is one reason California's cost-per-inmate (about $49,000) is twice the national average.

California's voters are complicit in their state's collapse. They elect and re-elect the legislators off whom public employees unions batten. Also, voters have promiscuously used their state's plebiscitary devices to control and fatten the budget. Last November, as the dark fiscal clouds lowered, they authorized $9.95 billion more in debt as a down payment on a perhaps $75 billion high-speed rail project linking San Francisco and Los Angeles -- a delight California cannot afford.

In a surreal attempt to terrify voters into supporting the propositions, Schwarzenegger (job approval: 33 percent) threatened to do something sensible: sell such state assets as San Quentin prison, which sits on prime ocean-view real estate. But Californians should now pay a real price, in realism about ways and means, for Schwarzenegger's wasted years. His governance-by-attention-deficit-disorder has involved flitting from one trendy irrelevance (e.g., stem cell research) to another (e.g., cooling the planet) while the state has sagged. Fittingly, he was in Washington as his shambolic legacy was being defined by Tuesday's defeat.

He was at the White House, applauding the Obama administration's imposition of severe fuel efficiency standards on a dependent automobile industry that at least has a proven aptitude for its new task of building cars Americans will not like. Standing far from Tuesday's repudiation, in the shadow of the president who may soon effectively be California's governor, Schwarzenegger was the administration's dependency agenda writ small.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090524/OPINION03/905240305/1305/OPINION0331/California-breeds-dependency-culture
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Sanslines
05-24-2009, 06:32 AM
No gold in state

May 21st 2009 | SAN FRANCISCO
From The Economist print edition


Voters reject a ballot they could not comprehend


<TABLE cellSpacing=4 cellPadding=0 width=208 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=right>Eyevine</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom>http://www.economist.com/images/20090523/2109US5.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Hair-raising stuff
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<!--back-->AT ONE point during his desperate campaign for six ballot measures meant to reduce California’s gaping budget deficit, Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor, pleaded with voters not to make California “the poster child for dysfunction”. But on May 19th they did exactly that.
Confused and bored by the wonky and tangled wording on the ballot, most voters ignored the election entirely. Those who did turn out rejected all measures except one that freezes legislators’ pay during budget-deficit years—a ritualised form of venting general anger.

Mr Schwarzenegger, already unpopular before this crisis, may well now be remembered as a failure. On election day, he fled the state for the more flattering photo opportunity of joining Barack Obama in the White House Rose Garden to announce tighter national fuel-efficiency standards for cars.

As a result of California’s election, the state now faces a $21.3 billion gap between revenues and spending. Life, which has been no picnic for many in this state since the recession began, is about to get a lot worse. There have already been two rounds of budget cuts since last autumn. A third, savage, round must now follow.

Mr Schwarzenegger has already hinted at the cuts he will propose to the legislature. The easy part is to release prisoners. California’s 33 prisons, with about 168,000 inmates, many of them locked up because of inflexible sentencing laws passed by voters, are scandalously overcrowded. Mr Schwarzenegger is thinking about freeing 38,000 people. Half of them are undocumented immigrants whom he would transfer to federal custody.
<CF_FLOATINGCONTENT></CF_FLOATINGCONTENT>But “the real money is where the pain is”, says Jean Ross of the California Budget Project, a research firm in Sacramento. In health care, for instance. Just as Mr Obama is trying to give more people access to medical care, California will be taking it away: by cutting funding for Medi-Cal, the state’s programme for the poor, and changing eligibility rules for another programme so that 225,000 children are likely to lose coverage. And this at a time when many of their parents are losing their jobs and their employer-sponsored insurance.

Other programmes, from help with birth-control and HIV-prevention to counselling against drug abuse and domestic violence, will be made smaller or eliminated altogether. Child-welfare programmes will be cut by 10%. This means fewer investigations into allegations of child abuse and less supervision of foster care, even as more children are likely to be abused in difficult economic times, says Linda Canan at the Napa County Health and Human Services Agency.

Cuts in the education budget will probably shorten the school year by a week, require teachers to be laid off and cause classes to get bigger. The University of California, a network of ten campuses, will face cuts equivalent to 50,000 fewer students and perhaps 5,000 fewer staff.
It doesn’t end there. A plan, previously rejected, to drill for oil off the coast near Santa Barbara will be revived. And a statewide yard sale will be held. State properties, from a big coliseum in Los Angeles to concert halls and fairgrounds, will be auctioned off. Even the San Quentin prison, built during the gold rush and housing the state’s death row, may go. Jeff Denham, a Republican state senator who votes resolutely against any attempt to raise taxes, has for years wanted to move the prison to a cheaper place inland in order to sell its “ocean-front property” in the bay north of San Francisco. He may now get his way.

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=13702838

Sanslines
05-24-2009, 06:38 AM
Union Pensions Fuel Enormous San Diego Budget Deficit

Pension Deficit Saps City Budget Service cuts may extend for years; courts grant partial relief

By BY GENE CUBBISON (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/results/?keywords=%22BY+GENE+CUBBISON%22&author=y&sort=date)

San Diego (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/topics?topic=San+Diego)'s unending cycle of budget cuts, fueled in large part by a runaway pension deficit, threatens to become a fixture for the forseeable future.

Barring a major rebound in the economy and global markets, the city's actuary estimates the deficit -- which he now pegs at $2.8 billion -- will require an extra $85 million paydown next fiscal year. This year's outlay was $161 million.

"The cuts we're talking about today, in terms of parks, rec centers -- that's going to look like nothing," says Lani Lutar (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/topics?topic=Lani+Lutar), executive director of the San Diego County Taxpayers Association. "Next (fiscal) year, we could be talking about cutting public safety significantly."

In an interview, Lutar said reforming the retirement system is priority-one: "They need to scale back these lavish benefits that are being awarded to public employees."

Mayor Jerry Sanders (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/topics?topic=Jerry+Sanders) says he'll approach the city's labor unions to make concessions on their pension benefits, but seems likely to get the cold shoulder.

Fire Fighters Local 145, -- which received no pay raises this fiscal year, and was accused of "scare tactics" over their opposition to Sanders' proposed service cuts in the Fire-Rescue Dept. -- has no desire to meet with Sanders on that subject, according to vice president Frank DeClerq (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/topics?topic=Frank+DeClerq).
The San Diego Police Officers Association, according to its president Bill Nemec, also will snub the mayor.

The Municipal Employees Association is ready to meet with Sanders, says spokeswoman Judi Italiano, but only if he's willing to consider granting "floating holidays", flexible work schedules and other bargains that she claims would be easy on the budget.

City Attorney Mike Aguirre (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/topics?topic=Mike+Aguirre) has been looking to the legal system to set aside $900 million in retirement benefits which he argues were illegally granted.

Late Thursday, he won a $40 million victory when Superior Court Judge William Nevitt invalidated a program under which city employees could buy up to five years' worth of pension-service credits for time they did not actually spend on the job.

But earlier Thursday, Aguirre's challenge of the remaining disputed benefits was dismissed by a state appellate court on grounds that it was prematurely filed, since there are other litigation issues still unresolved by another Superior Court trial judge, Jeffrey Barton.

Aguirre, however, saw a silver lining in the appellate ruling. "What this means," he told reporters during a City Hall news conference, "is the case has to go back (to Superior Court).

"And what's great about that, from our perspective, from the city's perspective, is that will require a jury trial. And that's one of our goals throughout ... we have always felt that our case can be resolved best before a jury."

But the 4th District Court of Appeal's dismissal language makes no mention about a jury trial now being required.

Opposing counsel for the San Diego City Employees Retirement System and the city's labor unions could not immediately be reached for a reaction to Aguirre's analysis of the appellate ruling.

When pressed by reporters to elaborate on his legal theories, Aguirre eventually halted the news conference and left City Hall's 13th floor press room.

He was followed into the elevator, where he stopped the lift halfway down its descent, got out, and took the emergency stairwell the rest of the way to the lobby.

On the revenue side of budget-balancing, there's talk of charging residents for curbside trash collection. But that would require a City Charter change that wouldn't see the ballot box until 2010 at the earliest.

But passage of such a measure could reap $57 million a year.
"We have to look at everything," says Councilwoman-Elect Marti Emerald. "San Diego is the only city in the ocunty that doesn't charge for this. But it will come down to the voters, and what the voters are willing to pay for."

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Pension-Deficit-Saps-City-Budget.html



Live Better, Don't Work Union (http://capoliticalnews.com/blog_post/show/2155)
May 23, 2009, 11:02 AM
There are benefits to having a union shop, a place where workers are not allowed unless they pay a bribe to work:

1. Higher consumer prices--guaranteed
2. Fewer workers--guaranteed
3. Lower stock prices--guaranteed
4. Loss of freedom--guaranteed

The funny part is that the forced union workers have their pensions invested in firms that are unionized. So, they are losing pension money by investing in union only firms.

In the public sector you get:

1. Teachers controlled by union based on paying bribes, not controlled by parents or school districts.
2. In California, State employees getting paid more than their private sector counterparts
3. "Cadillac" pensions and health care programs, guaranteed by the taxpayer.
4. Strikes, walk outs and slow downs if the union are not obeyed.

Unions protect the worst of employees, while holding back the best. Then the forced bribes, ur, dues, are used to pay for campaigns to raise taxes and elect officials who will give unions sweetheart deals at the expense of the public and the workers.

Sanslines
05-24-2009, 06:42 AM
Illegal Immigrants Drain California Budget

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#9999cc>Illegal aliens are a factor in California's budget math
Posted on Tuesday, February 03 @ 08:36:47 CST
Topic: Illegal Immigration News in the US (http://www.alipac.us/article-topic-4.html)
</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff>http://www.alipac.us/images/topics/us.gif (http://www.alipac.us/article-topic-4.html)Illegal aliens are a factor in California's budget math

George Skelton, Capitol Journal

February 2, 2009 From Sacramento -- Based on my e-mail, a lot of folks think the solution to California's state budget deficit is to round up all the illegal immigrants and truck them down to Mexico.

Wrong. Even if it were logistically possible and the deportees didn't just climb off the truck and hitch another ride back up north, their absence from the state wouldn't come close to saving enough tax dollars to balance a budget that has a $42-billion hole projected over the next 17 months.

Painful cuts in education, healthcare and social service programs still would be needed. Sharp tax increases would be required.

That said, let's be honest: Illegal immigration does cost California taxpayers a substantial wad, undeniably into the billions.

But it hasn't been PC for officeholders to talk about this for years, ever since Gov. Pete Wilson broke his pick waging an aggressive campaign for Proposition 187. That 1994 ballot initiative sought to bar illegal immigrants from most public services, including education. Voters approved the measure overwhelmingly, but it was tossed out by the courts.

TOPICS - Illegal immigration, illegal immigrants, illegal aliens, California's state budget deficit, immigration status, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, state prisons, welfare, CalWORKs, K-12 schools, Medi-Cal healthcare

Wilson was demonized by Democrats within the Latino community. And many think the Republican Party never has recovered among this rapidly growing slice of the electorate.

So it's not a topic that comes easily to the tongues of politicians, even Republicans.

Besides, most of the policy issues are out of California's hands. The federal government has jurisdiction over the border. Federal law decrees that every child is entitled to attend public school, regardless of immigration status. And every person -- here illegally or not -- must be cared for in hospital emergency rooms.

But the state does add a few benefits that aren't required.

And as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders dig into the books trying to find billions in savings, at least a brief look at what's being spent on illegal immigrants seems in order.

First, nobody seems to know exactly. Numbers vary widely, depending which side they come from in the ongoing angry debate over whether people who entered the country illegally to work should be allowed to stay or loaded on the southbound truck.

But here are some no-agenda numbers:

* There were 2.8 million illegal immigrants living in California in 2006, the last year for which there are relatively good figures, according to the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California. That represented about 8% of the state's population and roughly a quarter of the nation's illegal immigrants. About 90% of California's illegal immigrants were from Latin America; 65% from Mexico.

* There are roughly 19,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons, representing 11% of all inmates. That's costing $970 million during the current fiscal year. The feds kick in a measly $111 million, leaving the state with an $859 million tab.

* Schools are the toughest to calculate. Administrators don't ask kids about citizenship status. Anyway, many children of illegal immigrants were born in this country and automatically became U.S. citizens.

If you figure that the children of illegal immigrants attending K-12 schools approximates the proportion of illegal immigrants in the population, the bill currently comes to roughly $4 billion. Most is state money; some local property taxes.

* Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to welfare, called CalWORKs. But their citizen children are. Roughly 190,000 kids are receiving welfare checks that pass through their parents. The cost: about $500 million, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst's Office.

Schwarzenegger has proposed removing these children from the welfare rolls after five years. It's part of a broader proposal to also boot off, after five years, the children of U.S. citizens who aren't meeting federal work requirements. There'd be a combined savings of $522 million.

* The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that, $642 million goes into direct benefits. Practically all the rest is paid to counties to administer the program. The feds generally match the state dollar-for-dollar on mandatory programs.

So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million. Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the cost of baby delivery -- $108 million -- because the newborns aren't illegal immigrants.

The state also pays $47 million for programs that Washington does not require: Non-emergency care (breast and cervical cancer treatment), $25 million; long-term nursing home care, $19 million; abortions, $3 million.

Schwarzenegger has proposed requiring illegal immigrants to requalify every month for Medi-Cal benefits, except pregnancy-related emergencies.

There also are other taxpayer costs -- especially through local governments -- but those are the biggies for the state. Add them all up and the state spends well over $5 billion a year on illegal immigrants and their families.

Of course, illegal immigrants do pay state taxes. But no way do they pay enough to replenish what they're drawing in services. Their main revenue contribution would be the sales tax, but they can't afford to be big consumers, and food and prescription drugs are exempt.

My view is this: These people are here illegally and shouldn't be, regardless of whether they're just looking for a better life. Do it the legal way. And enforce the law against hiring the undocumented.

On the other hand, they are here. We can't have uneducated kids and unhealthy people living with us. We have moral obligations and practical imperatives.

The Obama administration and Congress need to finally pass an immigration reform act that allows for an agriculture work program and a route to citizenship.

Meanwhile, California should be honest about the costs. Illegal immigrants are not the sole cause of the state's deficit. But they are an enormous drain.

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3950

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nimrod
05-26-2009, 01:26 PM
Even though there is some truth in these posts, it is hard to find through all the partisan rhetoric. Sans did you deliberately look only on right winged based websites for this info? The exception is the last post.

Unions are not allways the evil that some believe that they are. Some do become too powerful and greedy, but not all. Do not know the name of the union for those who work in the prisons here in California, but that one has become too big and greedy and our state is becoming more and more a prison state. There has to be some changes in that regard because the mentality of the prisons can be seen in our culture and the way our kids are raised. The schools look more and more like prisons, not just the way the buildings are built but the gates at the enterances and the metal detectors and guards at the doors. It is as if they are preparing them to go to jail, this is what it will be like for you in the future, lets accustom you to it now.

The second article seems to blame the voters of this state for not passing bad propositions and because of that we will become even worse off then we were. Well here is a novel idea for those that run our state, establish a budget for this year on what was raised last year and do not exceed that amount, or you can even do it quarterly, or how about doing it like alot of your citizens week by week.

This is not just happening in California there are other states that are doing just as bad and will be looking for federal bailouts has well, the question is will California be the first.

Fitz1980
05-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Unions are not allways the evil that some believe that they are. Some do become too powerful and greedy, but not all. Do not know the name of the union for those who work in the prisons here in California, but that one has become too big and greedy and our state is becoming more and more a prison state. There has to be some changes in that regard because the mentality of the prisons can be seen in our culture and the way our kids are raised. The schools look more and more like prisons, not just the way the buildings are built but the gates at the enterances and the metal detectors and guards at the doors. It is as if they are preparing them to go to jail, this is what it will be like for you in the future, lets accustom you to it now.


Speaking of the prison culture here's a novel solution to the budget crisis. Legalize Marijuana, regulate & tax it and stop locking up non-violent drug offenders and have the cops start chasing real criminals. You could probably cut the budget of law enforcement in half if you did that, to say nothing of the tax revenue you could get if you regulated the marijuana trade. Over a half century shows that we can't stop the trade and the Mexican drug lords are making bank while every other sector of our economy is loosing money so let's get into it and cut out the cartels.

Sanslines
05-27-2009, 04:57 AM
Even though there is some truth in these posts, it is hard to find through all the partisan rhetoric. Sans did you deliberately look only on right winged based websites for this info? The exception is the last post.


Since when are the cold, hard facts 'right wing' (or 'left wing') ideology? As an example, there is nothing right wing or left wing about the 'San Diego' post. It has been known for years that the pension and benefits offered to county and city employees have been so overly generous as to virtually bankrupt the county and city.

The 'problem' with too many people in California is that they really want something as long as 'others' pay for it. Given the fact that there is insufficient revenue from capital gains and income taxes to pay for the myriad of expensive programs, the solution is either to cut spending or increase taxes. Are you willing to eternally pay more across the board for anything and everything in order to keep funding all ever expanding programs? How much are you willing to pay? This is what it has all come down to. With all of the taxes, rules, and regulations, the small business climate has been terrible in California for many years. Is it any wonder that so many have fled the state in waves to other states over the years?


The schools look more and more like prisons, not just the way the buildings are built but the gates at the enterances and the metal detectors and guards at the doors. It is as if they are preparing them to go to jail, this is what it will be like for you in the future, lets accustom you to it now.

Have you been to a California High School lately? I have and it is unbelievable. As an example, it takes a small army of custodians and high school security guards to safeguard and maintain the school bathrooms. A small group of kids seem determined to constantly destroy those facilities. Grafitti, destruction of the toilets, holes inthe wall, etc, are routine. Trying to teach in a junior or high school class can be a real eye opener. Too many kids have no real interest in learning anything and are either bored or want to be entertained. If a teacher dares to speak out, then the reacher is singled out and abused by students, parents, and school administration. The schools are set up to fail. The solution is not to continue to throw endless amounts of money at the problem but to completely overhaul the system and replace it with a system that brings back discipline and accountablility to the schools. Remove the troublesome kids from class and allow the 'good' kids to learn. You know as well as I do that in order to accomplish this, it would require turning schools into armed camps (well beyond anything that exists today) that would require some rather serious and draconian decisions. Decisions that the public is not ready to face or accept for the public really does not want to see the truth about nasty side of the society that they helped to create.

This is not just happening in California

No one said that it is only happening in California, but the budget problems in California have been going on for so many years and have only grown and grown to the point that the state must finally own up to it's serious problems (instead of hiding them) and deal with them by deciding what kind and size of programs that they wish to keep and then funding them with revenues from the people. All these claims of 'taxing the wealthy' are nonsense because in the end everyone will pay in one way, shape, or form.

Sanslines
05-27-2009, 05:01 AM
Speaking of the prison culture here's a novel solution to the budget crisis. Legalize Marijuana, regulate & tax it and stop locking up non-violent drug offenders and have the cops start chasing real criminals. You could probably cut the budget of law enforcement in half if you did that, to say nothing of the tax revenue you could get if you regulated the marijuana trade. Over a half century shows that we can't stop the trade and the Mexican drug lords are making bank while every other sector of our economy is loosing money so let's get into it and cut out the cartels.

We are just getting to the point where we can admit that we love to use illegal drugs and will do so no matter what. Once we reach the point of admission, we can then deal with the problem in a sensible manner. Drugs, such as marijuana, can be treated in a manner similar to alcohol. Users can use and abuse them to their heart's content, but if they ruin their health or injure or kill others because they were stoned at the time, then they should be held personally responsible for their actions.



U.S. drug habits help finance Mexican cartels

Americans' demand for pot, cocaine provide enticing market

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30946730

Fitz1980
05-27-2009, 09:13 AM
We are just getting to the point where we can admit that we love to use illegal drugs and will do so no matter what. Once we reach the point of admission, we can then deal with the problem in a sensible manner. Drugs, such as marijuana, can be treated in a manner similar to alcohol. Users can use and abuse them to their heart's content, but if they ruin their health or injure or kill others because they were stoned at the time, then they should be held personally responsible for their actions.


A-MEN my brother.

nimrod
05-27-2009, 01:11 PM
Since when are the cold, hard facts 'right wing' (or 'left wing') ideology? As an example, there is nothing right wing or left wing about the 'San Diego' post. It has been known for years that the pension and benefits offered to county and city employees have been so overly generous as to virtually bankrupt the county and city.

No offence their Sans, just the slant that the first three take are to the right. Union busting is seen as a right wing attitude, The Orange County Register is known for their right leaning views here in the southland, and most republicans in California say the gov is only a Rep by name not his actions. As I said I saw the truth in the posts just also saw the slant that they had.

Have you been to a California High School lately? I have and it is unbelievable. As an example, it takes a small army of custodians and high school security guards to safeguard and maintain the school bathrooms. A small group of kids seem determined to constantly destroy those facilities. Grafitti, destruction of the toilets, holes inthe wall, etc, are routine. Trying to teach in a junior or high school class can be a real eye opener. Too many kids have no real interest in learning anything and are either bored or want to be entertained. If a teacher dares to speak out, then the reacher is singled out and abused by students, parents, and school administration. The schools are set up to fail. The solution is not to continue to throw endless amounts of money at the problem but to completely overhaul the system and replace it with a system that brings back discipline and accountablility to the schools. Remove the troublesome kids from class and allow the 'good' kids to learn. You know as well as I do that in order to accomplish this, it would require turning schools into armed camps (well beyond anything that exists today) that would require some rather serious and draconian decisions. Decisions that the public is not ready to face or accept for the public really does not want to see the truth about nasty side of the society that they helped to create.

Yes I have been to a high school recently, that is how I know about the buildings design and the gates and the gaurds, but where does that come from, the prisons of course. Yes the high schools do need to become more active in fighting violence and vandalism, but the attitudes that the students bring are from home and their society. The prison system is influencing how many of these kids see life, most have had someone they know, usually a family member in jail for one reason or another. It is becoming a bigger proplem because it is self perpetuating. The kids think that is their lot in life and no one tries to correct that thinking, their own family members teach them to be disrespectful to authority because they do not feel that they are being respected.

No one said that it is only happening in California, but the budget problems in California have been going on for so many years and have only grown and grown to the point that the state must finally own up to it's serious problems (instead of hiding them) and deal with them by deciding what kind and size of programs that they wish to keep and then funding them with revenues from the people. All these claims of 'taxing the wealthy' are nonsense because in the end everyone will pay in one way, shape, or form.

No, no one really said that, but California seems to be the main focus of everyone. Maybe because California is, or was the eighth largest economy in the world.

nimrod
05-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Speaking of the prison culture here's a novel solution to the budget crisis. Legalize Marijuana, regulate & tax it and stop locking up non-violent drug offenders and have the cops start chasing real criminals. You could probably cut the budget of law enforcement in half if you did that, to say nothing of the tax revenue you could get if you regulated the marijuana trade. Over a half century shows that we can't stop the trade and the Mexican drug lords are making bank while every other sector of our economy is loosing money so let's get into it and cut out the cartels.

There has been some talk of doing just that. I had made a thread talking about someone bringing it to the state, the latest that I heard is that Arnold is considering it too. The biggest opponents to the idea would be the prison systems and the police/sherifs because of all the revenue they would lose if it did become legal. Not just the revenue that they recieve from the state but also the revenue that they generate from selling off all the siezed properties they have accured during drug busts. If it were to become legal the money that law enforcement would recieve could be put to better use.

Sanslines
05-27-2009, 02:27 PM
No offence their Sans, just the slant that the first three take are to the right. Union busting is seen as a right wing attitude, The Orange County Register is known for their right leaning views here in the southland, and most republicans in California say the gov is only a Rep by name not his actions. As I said I saw the truth in the posts just also saw the slant that they had.

No offense taken. It is just that California government has been so dysfunctional for so many years that I don't think that most people are even aware or care as to how high taxes would have to increase to pay for everything. The same old song and dance has been going on for years and that song is to create and promiss a whole bunch of beautiful sounding programs to the people without creating a solid plan to pay for those programs. The same accounting tricks have gone on for years and years and now the day of judgement has finally arrived. If people were forced to pay for the existing programs by having (as an example) Prop 13 repealed and then finding that their property taxes would triple, they might be more inclined to start asking serious questions about what they really are paying for. As long as 'others' pay for the programs, no one cares. Orange County (and San Diego County) are known Republican strongholds. Los Angeles County, by contrast, is a Democratic stronghold.


Yes I have been to a high school recently, that is how I know about the buildings design and the gates and the gaurds, but where does that come from, the prisons of course. Yes the high schools do need to become more active in fighting violence and vandalism, but the attitudes that the students bring are from home and their society. The prison system is influencing how many of these kids see life, most have had someone they know, usually a family member in jail for one reason or another. It is becoming a bigger proplem because it is self perpetuating. The kids think that is their lot in life and no one tries to correct that thinking, their own family members teach them to be disrespectful to authority because they do not feel that they are being respected.

The changes at the high school level must start at the very top of the administration chain. They must stand up to both the parents and teachers unions and not give in! I have a friend who teaches both in junior high and at the community college level. She has tried to bring discipline to her classroom but it is very hard to do when you find bullet holes in your classroom door and at the end of the school day go out to your car in the parking lot and find that some disgruntled students had poured concrete mix into your car's radiator. It is also hard to reach junior high school girls who come to class dressed like prostitutes and have sex in the bathrooms during lunch break. It is hard to deal with very angry young men who go home to 'hang and bang with da home boyz' rather then do their homework. Heck, so many kids go home to empty houses that are headed by single moms who are too busy working to even be home to sit on their kids and discipline them. The dads (if they ever were around) are no where to be found. The whole situation is a mess and high school has become more of a social work in progress then a place of learning.


No, no one really said that, but California seems to be the main focus of everyone. Maybe because California is, or was the eighth largest economy in the world.

California is the focus because the dysfunctional mess has gone on for years, is the largest mess in the nation, and can't seem to resolve it's problems.

DINKY
05-27-2009, 03:25 PM
I personally loved the outcome of the election, we "ALL together" kicked Arnold and the Democratically controlled government in the teeth, and as a Orange County Conservative I loved it.

Sanslines
05-27-2009, 07:07 PM
I personally loved the outcome of the election, we "ALL together" kicked Arnold and the Democratically controlled government in the teeth, and as a Orange County Conservative I loved it.

The state constitution still stands and this is where the real changes in state government must occur. Kicking Arnold and the Democrats in the teeth may make a person feel better, but it still does not resolve the extremly serious and never ending budget deficit problems. The only losers to the election will again be the people who will face either drastically reduced services or another round of tax and fee increases (or a combination of both). This merry-go-round will go on and on until an honest budget that properly funds services and commitments (such as pension plans) becomes a reality.

nimrod
05-28-2009, 12:18 PM
No offense taken. It is just that California government has been so dysfunctional for so many years that I don't think that most people are even aware or care as to how high taxes would have to increase to pay for everything. The same old song and dance has been going on for years and that song is to create and promiss a whole bunch of beautiful sounding programs to the people without creating a solid plan to pay for those programs. The same accounting tricks have gone on for years and years and now the day of judgement has finally arrived. If people were forced to pay for the existing programs by having (as an example) Prop 13 repealed and then finding that their property taxes would triple, they might be more inclined to start asking serious questions about what they really are paying for. As long as 'others' pay for the programs, no one cares. Orange County (and San Diego County) are known Republican strongholds. Los Angeles County, by contrast, is a Democratic stronghold.

Part of the problem with the programs is that they become governmentalized/buricratic to the point that all the money gets tied up in red tape and paperwork so they ask for more than they really need to run the program if it were done by anyone else that knows how to run a business. My cousin as special needs so my aunt, finally disgusted with all she had to do and the waste that she saw in the system, started her own business that she created only for the care of her daughter. She still deals with the state but more directly then the social programs that she used to use.