What Does It Mean To Be An American?

[Sanslines]

Unique American Culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture

What are other's thoughts on what does it mean to be an American? What makes Americans unique in the world and what separates us from other nations such as England, etc?

[jon71]

Unique American Culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture

What are other's thoughts on what does it mean to be an American? What makes Americans unique in the world and what separates us from other nations such as England, etc?


I think it's our diversity, primarily because we are a land of immigrants. Even in addition to that though we are extremely diverse. We have different races, languages, incomes, religions, philosophies, political identifications, family status, and I'm sure a dozen different things I'm not even thinking of now. If someone asked me to define American culture I would say there isn't one, there are many American cultures (emphasis on the plural).

[Sanslines]

I think it's our diversity, primarily because we are a land of immigrants. Even in addition to that though we are extremely diverse. We have different races, languages, incomes, religions, philosophies, political identifications, family status, and I'm sure a dozen different things I'm not even thinking of now. If someone asked me to define American culture I would say there isn't one, there are many American cultures (emphasis on the plural).


Thanks for your reply Jon. Do you still believe that the USA has strong regional cultures or that media and other forms of communication have reduced regional differences?

[jon71]

The regional cultures still exist some but they're ebbing all the time. For example I've lived my entire life in the south, mostly kind of small towns but I not anywhere close to the stereotype "good ol' boy". I listen to rock, watch sci-fi and fantasy, read manga, I'm a liberal politically, etc. I see that some things while not becoming hemogenized are being determined for reasons other than geography. The exception is accents which seem to be dying entirely. I once saw an interview with Lucy Lawless (Xena) who is a native New Zealander and speaks as such normally. She was talking about being in character and "talking American" and then once cut was yelled she instantly be back in her native accent. It was kind of weird but that is one area where diversity is dying not growing.

[Skinview]

Unique American Culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture

What are other's thoughts on what does it mean to be an American? What makes Americans unique in the world and what separates us from other nations such as England, etc?If you are born in the US or naturalized, speak english, and subscribe to the following, you are American:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these ends it is the Right of the People to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It has been said that the United States and the Soviet Union are the only two countries that are defined by ideas. The US had the better idea.

[jon71]

Speaking English has absolutely nothing in the world to do with being American. In 1776 many languages were spoken and English wasn't even the most prominent one. The first newspaper to write about our founding fathers declaring independence did so in German. Personally I think it's a little sad that we've drifted towards monolinguism since then and like the fact we seem to returning to our roots a bit as Spanish and other languages are becoming more commonly used.

[jon71]

Oh and let's not forget that "illegal" immigrants are American just as much as everybody else. The idea that you have to have paperwork to be an American is a 20th century concept and frankly a rather silly one.

[richo]

A documentary was made called "In the Shadow of the Moon" about the Apollo missions. At one point, one of the astronauts (I believe it was Colins) was talking about the feeling in the world at the time of the original landing. What he said was something like:


It wasn't, "You Americans did it." It was, "We, we humankind, the human race, we people, we did it."

If I had to point out one thing as being "American", even if only in an ideal sense, it is the desire, the drive - even the need - to inspire that kind of attitude in the world. It may, at some point, be driven by nationalism - but in the end, the goal is progress for all of humanity, not just ourselves. Occasionally, that attitude leads us into murky waters (when we try to force or coerce rather than lead), but it can also bring out the best the world.

Maybe it's just an ideal, but it's a damned fine one.

[Skinview]

Speaking English has absolutely nothing in the world to do with being American.People draw lines on maps segregating people into different nations. Those lines have historically been based on language. France and Germany are two different nations with a common border. Funny thing how almost all the people on one side speak French, and almost everyone on the other side speak German. It really wouldn't make sense to put the border someplace else. A people sharing a common language can easily communicate with each other, share a common liturature and other media, read the laws, follow police instructions, understand their leaders, and vice versa, and generally engage in a common political discourse and economic intercourse. Speaking of intercourse, it makes hooking up easier too. If there is one thing that defines a people and a nation, it is language.



In 1776 many languages were spoken and English wasn't even the most prominent one.You are either being unclear on your point or massively ignorant of American history.

[Skinview]

Oh and let's not forget that "illegal" immigrants are American just as much as everybody else.Ok, what drugs are you on? If they are illegal immigrants, they are NOT American as both a matter of law, and likely culture, and likely by any other meaning of the word "American". By your logic, the Japanese soldiers that invaded the Alutian Islands were American, as well as the British soldiers that invaded in the War of 1812. If I visit France, I am still American. If a Frenchman visits the US, he is still a Frenchman. If your definition of American stood, it would have no meaning other than a statement of transient location.

[nakedstudent]

Unique American Culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture

What are other's thoughts on what does it mean to be an American? What makes Americans unique in the world and what separates us from other nations such as England, etc?

I think the foundation of America was based on a society where there would be no class struggle as theorized by European and Soviet thinkers. In looking at the Bill of Rights and other amendments, it looks pretty evident that this is the case.

This is not to say that the founders were pro rich because most immigrants from Europe in our early history and even more recently were very poor people who came from nothing and have built their own prosperity without whining about the initial conditions.

I think it's pretty easy to see that we've gotten away from this revolutionary thought process in the past 100 or so years.

[Fitz1980]

This is not to say that the founders were pro rich because most immigrants from Europe in our early history and even more recently were very poor people who came from nothing and have built their own prosperity without whining about the initial conditions.


The past 100 years has been when very poor people came from nothing have achieved the most. We have these romantic notions of what the distant past was like but actual history does not support many of them. The age of robber barons was also known as the gilded age when there was a shiny vainer on things and most of the rest of the population was dirt poor with no options of raising themselves above that. It was through liberal things like unions, government programs, public education & a progressive tax system that we developed a large middle class and the strongest economy of the 20th century.

[jon71]

People draw lines on maps segregating people into different nations. Those lines have historically been based on language. France and Germany are two different nations with a common border. Funny thing how almost all the people on one side speak French, and almost everyone on the other side speak German. It really wouldn't make sense to put the border someplace else. A people sharing a common language can easily communicate with each other, share a common liturature and other media, read the laws, follow police instructions, understand their leaders, and vice versa, and generally engage in a common political discourse and economic intercourse. Speaking of intercourse, it makes hooking up easier too. If there is one thing that defines a people and a nation, it is language.


You are either being unclear on your point or massively ignorant of American history.


Not remotely true. Some countries are monolinguistic and some countries are polylinguistic. Both systems work nicely. America's early history was polylinguistic. In addition to all the native American and African languages spoken but ignored by those in power early Americans spoke English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Russian, and a smattering of Italian, Portugueses, and others.

[jon71]

Ok, what drugs are you on? If they are illegal immigrants, they are NOT American as both a matter of law, and likely culture, and likely by any other meaning of the word "American". By your logic, the Japanese soldiers that invaded the Alutian Islands were American, as well as the British soldiers that invaded in the War of 1812. If I visit France, I am still American. If a Frenchman visits the US, he is still a Frenchman. If your definition of American stood, it would have no meaning other than a statement of transient location.


Grow up. Some people are born American and some people become American. Some of those who become American do so "legally" and some do so "illegally" (to what extent those distinctions even mean anything). If you visited France you would be American but if you visited France and didn't leave you would become French. If a Frenchman visits the U.S. and doesn't leave he becomes an American too. You don't have to like this but thankfully there is nothing you can do to change it.

[Sanslines]

Grow up. Some people are born American and some people become American. Some of those who become American do so "legally" and some do so "illegally" (to what extent those distinctions even mean anything). If you visited France you would be American but if you visited France and didn't leave you would become French. If a Frenchman visits the U.S. and doesn't leave he becomes an American too. You don't have to like this but thankfully there is nothing you can do to change it.

I dunno bout that Jon. As an example, what about the American communties that have grouped together in certain areas along the coast towards Ensenada, Mexico. (Ensenada is about 80 or so miles south of the USA - Mexico border. The Americans who live in those gated communities speak English, retain their American citizenship, and have absolutely no intention of ever becoming Mexicans even though they live in Mexico.

[nakedstudent]

It was through liberal things like unions, government programs, public education & a progressive tax system that we developed a large middle class and the strongest economy of the 20th century.

I don't think you can accurately say all of this. Technology also plays a huge role in such things. Technology also came about at the same time as all these liberal things. It allowed more stuff to be made at a cheaper cost. Globalization allowed markets to open up that were previously isolated from each other to a large extent.

There were so many other contextual factors outside of government that it is impossible to pin the creation of such wealth on the actions of the government.

Ford took of mostly because of the assembly line speeding up the process of building cars. The north industrialized with mechanization and the use of steam power. This is what drove the jobs. The progressive tax system and unionization did not drive job creation.

Granted, the public education system has made a much better quality of worker, unionization has increased wages and workers rights (at the expense of the consumer), and progressive taxation is the only logical INCOME BASED tax program, but there are downsides to all 3.

Unionization in the American auto industry has lead to an absurdly high percentage of the price of a car being directly attributed to health care costs. Public education has sold itself to the aforementioned unions (which I have seen on the inside) and some teachers have become more concerned with printing a flier or newsletter than teaching their students. INCOME based taxation has snowballed all this class warfare garbage that the framers of the constitution worked so hard to ensure would be left out of the American society.

All 3 have also led to immense waste in our society. If we chose a different path, technology and industrialization would still have led to growth, unions would not be tied to political ideology, and taxation would be based on consumption rather than earnings.

[nakedstudent]

Grow up. Some people are born American and some people become American. Some of those who become American do so "legally" and some do so "illegally" (to what extent those distinctions even mean anything). If you visited France you would be American but if you visited France and didn't leave you would become French. If a Frenchman visits the U.S. and doesn't leave he becomes an American too. You don't have to like this but thankfully there is nothing you can do to change it.

So by that logic if a child rapist becomes a good person he shouldn't have to face the punishment for those crimes?

Nobody ever said illegal immigrants aren't trying to become American. I don't think anyone would argue that the majority of them are bad people. The fact remains that they have broken laws defined by our political system.

Not punishing those crimes makes it acceptable to break them which undermines the entire point of the legal system.

[Skinview]

Grow up. Some people are born American and some people become American. Some of those who become American do so "legally" and some do so "illegally" (to what extent those distinctions even mean anything).Apparently those distinctions don't mean much to you.


If you visited France you would be American but if you visited France and didn't leave you would become French.I will be American wherever I go and however long I stay there.



If a Frenchman visits the U.S. and doesn't leave he becomes an American too.No, he becomes a criminal.



You don't have to like this but thankfully there is nothing you can do to change it.There is nothing to change. The law is as I want it, and if someone is here illegally, he can be picked up and deported out of this country and back to his country, as many are.

[Skinview]

Not remotely true. Some countries are monolinguistic and some countries are polylinguistic. Both systems work nicely.Canada has nearly split apart, and may yet. Belgium is headed toward a split. Spain gets bombed by Basque separatists, we have had numerous wars with Indians, Sri Lanka has been in a long war with Tamil separatists, and so forth and so on. Polylingual countries are not a good idea.



America's early history was polylinguistic. In addition to all the native American and African languages spoken but ignored by those in power early Americans spoke English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Russian, and a smattering of Italian, Portugueses, and others.And the vast majority of Americans, or their ancestors, came from Great Britain and spoke English.

[Boreas]

Granted, the public education system has made a much better quality of worker, unionization has increased wages and workers rights (at the expense of the consumer)

The worker is the consumer.

[martinkav]

The essence of being an American is to adhere to the motto: "United we stand, divided we fall".

And how on earth could we be united if we speak different languages?

I am also an immigrant to this great country, but as times passed by I got accostomed and fluent in English language. I am not dictating other immigrants to totally forget their native language, but please please please.......do not ever speak your native language if you are at workplace or in any other place wherein other different ethnic groups could hear you. Its blatantly rude.

[nakedstudent]

The worker is the consumer.

True enough... but what they don't realize is that in demanding all these rights as employees, they have forfeited many more on the consumption end of things.

I will say it again, an absurdly high percentage of the cost of a modern car goes directly to worker's health care. We demand all these entitlements from the government, but to get them, we forfeit 20% of our income to get them.

It's a give and take and I personally believe that we aren't getting our money's worth and also that the use of "to promote the general welfare" to rationalize all these social welfare programs when the entire rest of the constitution very clearly draws lines is rather dangerous.

[Sanslines]

True enough... but what they don't realize is that in demanding all these rights as employees, they have forfeited many more on the consumption end of things.



The American way of life as it exists now is clearly unsustainable. We consume far too much relative to the rest of the world. We are not enititled to the lion's share of resources on this planet to supply our enormous consumption demands. As the human population grows, and as nations such as China and India work to raise their standard of living, Americans will be forced to share more natural resources as the price of those resources rise in relationship to demand.

[Boreas]

The essence of being an American is to adhere to the motto: "United we stand, divided we fall".

And how on earth could we be united if we speak different languages?

I am also an immigrant to this great country, but as times passed by I got accostomed and fluent in English language. I am not dictating other immigrants to totally forget their native language, but please please please.......do not ever speak your native language if you are at workplace or in any other place wherein other different ethnic groups could hear you. Its blatantly rude.

I am a Canadian who needs to pipe in here. I live in a country that is officially bilingual. Theoretically, you can get various service in either French or English. That means if you access government services, or go to court etc you should be able to get services in your own language. Of course, sometimes that is easier said than done, but I think it works reasonably well. There are also areas in Canada where the Aboriginal language is prominent.

I do agree that it is best for newcomers to a country learn the dominant language. What can we do to help that process? In the US arguably, Spanish is an official language of the area, and it would be easy enough to provide services in Spanish. I imagine that already happens.

A country does not need to be unilingual in order to function. I do not think Canada is the only country that functions well with more than one language.

[MoonShadow]

I agree, Boreas, and let's remember that most countries have gone to bilingual as English becomes the more universally accepted language in order to communicate to all countries. As more and more US and other English-speaking companies outsource to other non-English speaking countries, English becomes a second language.

[Pumpkinpie]

This Song Says It All, To All The Men And Women Who are serving the Veterans Thank You, For All That Have Crossed Over May Eternal Light Keep Shining On And Over You.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVhnaVAQeTo

[jon71]

So by that logic if a child rapist becomes a good person he shouldn't have to face the punishment for those crimes?

Nobody ever said illegal immigrants aren't trying to become American. I don't think anyone would argue that the majority of them are bad people. The fact remains that they have broken laws defined by our political system.

Not punishing those crimes makes it acceptable to break them which undermines the entire point of the legal system.

There is no comparison and you're being outrageously offensive. The "laws" that illegal immigrants are breaking is a joke. It isn't 1% as bad a child rape. It's more like driving across the yellow lines in a parking lot, technically you aren't supposed to but have you ever met anyone who actually cared? If anything crossing the border is less of an offense than that because you actually could hit someone with the car and seriously injure or kill them (although you could even without crossing the yellow lines too). The argument that "they have broken laws defined by our political system" ONLY establishes that we seriously need to change our laws. We should have a way to filter out the handful that are real criminals and just welcome everybody else. This particular part of the legal system I LOVE to see undermined, btw. Until we seriously reform our laws that's the best we can hope for.

[jon71]

The essence of being an American is to adhere to the motto: "United we stand, divided we fall".

And how on earth could we be united if we speak different languages?

I am also an immigrant to this great country, but as times passed by I got accostomed and fluent in English language. I am not dictating other immigrants to totally forget their native language, but please please please.......do not ever speak your native language if you are at workplace or in any other place wherein other different ethnic groups could hear you. Its blatantly rude.


Many countries are united with miltiple languages. America used to be that way and hopefully will be again. Canada is that way (at least in Quebec) and is doing just well. India is that way and is growing beautifully. It works for large parts of the globe.

[jon71]

Apparently those distinctions don't mean much to you.

I will be American wherever I go and however long I stay there.


No, he becomes a criminal.


There is nothing to change. The law is as I want it, and if someone is here illegally, he can be picked up and deported out of this country and back to his country, as many are.

You aren't dealing with reality. If you moved to France and stayed you would be French. Maybe French AND American but at some point you would no longer be an American tourist. If you were living in an American embassy or on an American military base that would be different (those are American territory with exclusive American laws in effect) but otherwise your nationality would change in some way. It is a shame that some are deported just for wanted to be American (that's a betrayal of what this country is about) but luckily relatively few "illegals" are caught and most who are caught are back in a week or two.

[nakedstudent]

There is no comparison and you're being outrageously offensive. The "laws" that illegal immigrants are breaking is a joke. It isn't 1% as bad a child rape. It's more like driving across the yellow lines in a parking lot, technically you aren't supposed to but have you ever met anyone who actually cared? If anything crossing the border is less of an offense than that because you actually could hit someone with the car and seriously injure or kill them (although you could even without crossing the yellow lines too). The argument that "they have broken laws defined by our political system" ONLY establishes that we seriously need to change our laws. We should have a way to filter out the handful that are real criminals and just welcome everybody else. This particular part of the legal system I LOVE to see undermined, btw. Until we seriously reform our laws that's the best we can hope for.

Outrageous is the fact that the American society has gotten to the point where we're apathetic about enforcing the laws we already have.

Why should I support modifications or additions to the legal system when the government can't enforce what they already have?

I don't care what your view on how we change the law is. The fact remains that the current laws are in fact law and should be enforced until that "reform" comes.

I suspect that if we actually enforced our immigration laws, you would notice a marked increase in the quality of life in legal US citizens and also a marked decrease in crime in metropolitan areas.

[speedoman]

it means alot to me for being an American and I am very proud to say that I am now getting ready to retire from the service where I devoted 33 years and will continue doing so in assisting our young women and men to do as I did. I do not have any regrets in serving in for our country, since the Vietnam war, desert storm and now Iraq. I will continue to defend liberty and justice for all by doing my part. Now I am here enjoying my total freedom from clothes and enjoy. Keep smiling!!!

[Sanslines]

I suspect that if we actually enforced our immigration laws, you would notice a marked increase in the quality of life in legal US citizens and also a marked decrease in crime in metropolitan areas.

How can this be for this nation has a history of using both legal and illegal immigrants to do the types of jobs that Americans will not do. 100 year ago legal immigrants who passed throught Ellis Island and were admitted were sent to different locations throughout the country. For example, young men with some muscle were routinely sent to the Northeast PA anthracite coal mines to do filthy, backbreaking, and unhealthy (think Black Lung disease) work at low wages.

Today, illegal immigrants openly work in California agriculture. Given any Saturday in Southern California, you will find a group of legals and illegals congregating near the front of places such as Home Depot and will wait until someone comes along and hires them for the day. If the illegals were deported, then who would pick our crops, trim our trees and manicure our laws, work in our poultry and meat processing factories? The work would never get done. How would this increase the quality of life for American citizens? Our nation has always operated with the exploitation of others.

[Skinview]

You aren't dealing with reality. If you moved to France and stayed you would be French. Maybe French AND American but at some point you would no longer be an American tourist.I would either be a resident alien or an illegal alien. I would not be French.

[Naturist Mark]

I suspect that if we actually enforced our immigration laws, you would notice a marked increase in the quality of life in legal US citizens and also a marked decrease in crime in metropolitan areas.

Without the deliberate policy of the last 30 years of encouraging the hiring of illegals in order to depress wages, you might see an increase in the standard of living of the middle and working classes - although some claim that illegals filling the lowest ranks of unskilled labor "push" native born workers up the ladder - I take that with a grain of salt, look at construction jobs - far from unskilled, and now so dominated by low wage skilled immigrant labor (both legal and not) that it is no longer the solid middle class career it used to be. But as to crime, think about the opposite. Illegals know they can be deported if they are picked up for any infraction - they have a strong incentive to keep their noses clean and profiles low. Crime - other than those having to do with immigration violations - is lower among illegal immigrants than legal residents. A study by the Washington-based Immigration Policy Center showed that immigrant men ages 18 to 39 had an incarceration rate five times lower than native-born citizens in every ethnic group examined. Among men of Mexican descent, for instance, 0.7% of those foreign-born were incarcerated compared to 5.9% of native-born, according to the study, co-written by UC Irvine sociologist Ruben G. Rumbaut. LATimes (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/28/local/me-immigstudy28)

[nakedstudent]

How can this be for this nation has a history of using both legal and illegal immigrants to do the types of jobs that Americans will not do. 100 year ago legal immigrants who passed throught Ellis Island and were admitted were sent to different locations throughout the country. For example, young men with some muscle were routinely sent to the Northeast PA anthracite coal mines to do filthy, backbreaking, and unhealthy (think Black Lung disease) work at low wages.

Today, illegal immigrants openly work in California agriculture. Given any Saturday in Southern California, you will find a group of legals and illegals congregating near the front of places such as Home Depot and will wait until someone comes along and hires them for the day. If the illegals were deported, then who would pick our crops, trim our trees and manicure our laws, work in our poultry and meat processing factories? The work would never get done. How would this increase the quality of life for American citizens? Our nation has always operated with the exploitation of others.

That's where the reform Jon talked about comes in to play. But at the same time, how can anyone trust that things will be taken care of any differently after reform when they're handled the way they are now?

I'm not arguing in favor of a closed border. I'm arguing for enforcing our laws and revising the ones that don't work as we figure it out. As it stands now, we can't see what isn't working because we aren't controlling the things we could.

One thing I gave Bush a lot of credit for was the guest worker program he advocated. Things like this make sense. There ARE jobs that Americans aren't willing to do. A huge percentage of the illegal immigrants in this country only come for the work and could care less about which side of the border they live on. A guest worker program would allow Mexicans to work the seasonal jobs which is all many of them do and also relieve the strain on the LEGAL avenues of immigration.

[nakedstudent]

Without the deliberate policy of the last 30 years of encouraging the hiring of illegals in order to depress wages, you might see an increase in the standard of living of the middle and working classes - although some claim that illegals filling the lowest ranks of unskilled labor "push" native born workers up the ladder - I take that with a grain of salt, look at construction jobs - for from unskilled, and now so dominated by low wage skilled immigrant labor (both legal and not) that it is no longer the solid middle class career it used to be. But as to crime, think about the opposite. Illegals know they can be deported if they are picked up for any infraction - they have a strong incentive to keep their noses clean and profiles low. Crime - other than those having to do with immigration violations - is lower among illegal immigrants than legal residents. As study by the Washington-based Immigration Policy Center showed that immigrant men ages 18 to 39 had an incarceration rate five times lower than native-born citizens in every ethnic group examined. Among men of Mexican descent, for instance, 0.7% of those foreign-born were incarcerated compared to 5.9% of native-born, according to the study, co-written by UC Irvine sociologist Ruben G. Rumbaut. LATimes (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb/28/local/me-immigstudy28)

I'm not arguing against all immigration and will never deny that immigration is a good thing for the country. I fully respect any person who comes to the US through the legal process that we've outlined.

[Pumpkinpie]

it means alot to me for being an American and I am very proud to say that I am now getting ready to retire from the service where I devoted 33 years and will continue doing so in assisting our young women and men to do as I did. I do not have any regrets in serving in for our country, since the Vietnam war, desert storm and now Iraq. I will continue to defend liberty and justice for all by doing my part. Now I am here enjoying my total freedom from clothes and enjoy. Keep smiling!!!

This song is for you my friend and all the service Men&Women, who is serving to all the veterans for all that have crossed over Thank You.
You have a happy retirement and have lots of fun in the sun.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yla5r5D14Zw

[Ken Palmer]

Amen! I am in agreement here 100%!

Ken Palmer





If you are born in the US or naturalized, speak english, and subscribe to the following, you are American:

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these ends it is the Right of the People to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

It has been said that the United States and the Soviet Union are the only two countries that are defined by ideas. The US had the better idea.

[jon71]

Outrageous is the fact that the American society has gotten to the point where we're apathetic about enforcing the laws we already have.

Why should I support modifications or additions to the legal system when the government can't enforce what they already have?

I don't care what your view on how we change the law is. The fact remains that the current laws are in fact law and should be enforced until that "reform" comes.

I suspect that if we actually enforced our immigration laws, you would notice a marked increase in the quality of life in legal US citizens and also a marked decrease in crime in metropolitan areas.

You might be surprised to know that "illegal" aliens are by far the most law abiding people in America. They have to be because they need to stay under the radar to avoid I.N.S. Nativists love to trot out the exceptions (they do exist) but undocumented immigrants break the law at a fraction of the rate of Americans who were born here.

[jon71]

Getting back to our original thread one of the big ones is freedom. We on this forum can freely argue about what it means to be an American. We can dissent. We can advocate changing the laws and changing the people who make the laws. We with the exceptions of perjury, child porn, military secrets and yelling fire in a crowded theater we have exceptional freedom of speech. Our speech can be outrageous, insulting, profane, obscene, blasphemous, dissenting or even to the point of burning our own flag. Image how that would be treated in Iran, Cuba or China. Another one I love is that we can read "banned books". Most libraries will even celebrate "read a banned book week" (or is it month?). How many countries do that? Over the years I've read the Bible, the entire Harry Potter series (two of the most targeted nowadays), Tom Sawyer (or at least portions of it), Nancy Friday, "Go ask Alice" and probably quite a few others that some people don't want anyone to read. I highly recommend reading a banned book or two.

[alfredr]

Being an American means blind patriotism. My country, right or wrong. Oops, I suppose Russians and Chinese and French and Australians and Austrians say that too.

America: Love it or Leave it!

Baseball? Apple pie? Truth and Justice and the American Way? Motherhood?

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.

Give me Liberty or give me Death.

I have not yet begun to fight.

...the pursuit of happiness...

the Bill of Rights

your rights end where my nose begins

Speaking of Austrians, "I'll be back."

Peace is the respect for the rights of others. Or in its original Spanish, "El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz."

Being an American means recognizing that we are a melting pot, or as it has alternatively been described, a stew, richer for the diversity of flavors brought from many sources. (Even if some of them were smuggled in.)

[alfredr]

I should have made that multiple choice.

[Sanslines]

I should have made that multiple choice.

You forgot to mention the in America the streets are 'paved with gold'. Unless it is my street, in which case it is full of potholes. Where is the simulus money to repair the infrastructure? Oops, forgot.........it all went to patch holes in the state's budget deficit and sadly there is no money left to repair infrastructure.

[maliakei]

Speaking of Austrians, "I'll be back."

CA Governator has recently proposed $5.5 billion in cuts healthcare for children; over $8 billion to education; and the entire welfare system to make up for $21 billion state deficit. If this does happen hope there isn't going to be major chaos forcing people into homelessness or committing crimes just to survive.

Understandably, there are people who, for whatever reason cannot work and they do need assistance. There has to be ways to reduce the welfare roll and still allow it to those who truly need it. Unfortunately, there are too many who are receiving these benefits where they are really capable of working! Limiting the number of kids mom's can have might be one way. There must be alot of ways to reduce welfare recipients and still offer help to those who really need it. Even people receiving public assistance should do something to give back if that means picking up debris on the streets, etc. With more US citizens filling these jobs, and employers receiving a tax cut for hiring them, this would also help to decrease illegal immigration. If homeless and mentally challenge folks can work, so can the Octo-mom.

The most astounding is where senior citizens, who've worked hard all their lives, paid taxes, and raised their families don't have enough retirement/savings to survive so they commit petty crimes to get a place to sleep & meal in jail because they were cold & very hungry. There is obviously something wrong with this picture!

For me being American is about having freedom & security, wealth in many other forms than monetary alone. This recession obviously doesn't make it easier, but I am finding even more people struggling in today's turbulent times becoming reunited. We are sharing common bonds.

[Sanslines]

The most astounding is where senior citizens, who've worked hard all their lives, paid taxes, and raised their families don't have enough retirement/savings to survive so they commit petty crimes to get a place to sleep & meal in jail because they were cold & very hungry. There is obviously something wrong with this picture!


Here, there was an obviously poor and elderly man who was caught shoplifting a loaf of bread from a food store because he was hungry. The food store showed no mercy and phoned the police to have him arrested. The police promptly came and arrested him on the charge of petit larceny. How sad when it comes to this.

[maliakei]

Here, there was an obviously poor and elderly man who was caught shoplifting a loaf of bread from a food store because he was hungry. The food store showed no mercy and phoned the police to have him arrested. The police promptly came and arrested him on the charge of petit larceny. How sad when it comes to this.

That is Awful. Just Terrible. It is happening more often now. It's the very needy who are unable to fend for themselves who are getting punished. No matter the person's loyalty in the past, that doesn't seem to matter anymore.

Social Security is barely enough. It is sad when harding-working US citizens have to resort to taking a loaf of bread from the store because they didn't have enough money.

I donate to charity organizations such as American Red Cross, Salvation Army, and Goodwill. What I don't like is being hounded by street beggars, especially the aggressive types. I don't give them money, rather mention nearest food, shelters, American Red Cross.

[alfredr]

"E Pluribus unum." From many, one.

[alfredr]

If I remember right from a publication from my alma mater, University of Illinois, about the act establishing the land grant college system, President Lincoln, when signing it, spoke about the "right to rise." the belief that everyone in America has the right to improve their lot by benefiting from hard work and study. And the government should enable and encourage this.

[richo]

If I remember right from a publication from my alma mater, University of Illinois, about the act establishing the land grant college system, President Lincoln, when signing it, spoke about the "right to rise." the belief that everyone in America has the right to improve their lot by benefiting from hard work and study. And the government should enable and encourage this.

The idea(l) of a classless society - or at least where there exists the ability to transition between classes - is certainly one of the observed principles of the US (if not an inherent one).

Even today, people in many countries exist in a stratified class environment. For example, one of the women I work with moved here recently from India. The province she comes from is mostly Hindu; she's Catholic. This means that, in her province, she's relegated to a specific class and certain kinds of jobs, can only marry certain people, etc. She and her husband moved to the US explicitly to raise their daughter outside those kinds of restrictions.

The idea of the "American dream" - of the possibility of being able to start out at the bottom and eventually becomes rich and/or successful - is based on this principle of classlessness. It is, thankfully, no longer uniquely American: more and more societies are losing the stratification, some more quickly than others.

In general, the concept of someone succeeding on merit instead of birthright was only around in during the founding of the US in a very basic way: at first, only white men were able to break the class barriers. Eventually, of course, the opportunity was (at least theoretically; there are still some "glass ceilings") spread to all people regardless of race, gender, religion, or (ideally) any other classification.

Whether we agree that the ideal has been achieved or not, it's still something that draws people to this country every day. It's also part of the reason why society as a whole has a love/hate relationship with many CEOs and politicians: a lot of these people are seen as being "born into" their roles rather than "earning" them, and while the positions themselves symbolize part of the essence of America - free enterprise and "democracy" - the people holding them and the "old boys' club" that they tend to engender embody a kind of class distinction that is decidedly un-American.