Saving/creating jobs

[Bob S.]

In the Judge Sotomayor (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?t=14618&page=10) thread, Illinois stated the following:

Illinois: "I heard Rush Limbaugh say today that during the 8 years of George Bush, 32 million jobs were saved or created. He didn't say in what country, however. I don't believe the country is the USA. How can anybody believe what these guys say?"

Rush said that because Obama's team are stating that they are going to save or create 600,000 jobs with certain parts of his stimulus package, having already saved 150,000 since he took office.

The problem with these numbers is that they are impossible to quantify. No one can adequately come up with a reasonable number of the number of jobs that were saved. Rush was just making up a number to illustrate how inaccurate the numbers are. Can anyone prove that Bush did not save any of those jobs? No. The point being that Obama cannot prove he has saved any jobs.

Bob S.

[New Found Comfort]

I noticed too that he had completely misquoted what was actually said.

[Kouak]

Statistics in general can be used to mislead. We see this all of the time in advertising. How many times have we hear, "We are the fastest growing company in the XYZ industry." This implies that a faster growing company is a better company...and the fastest growing is the best company. Unless you ground the statistics in context, they are meaningless. Remember that fastest growing company? Would you be impressed if that company had only 1 sale last year and this year had 10 sales? Why not, it is 1000% larger. That is amazing, right?

With that said, a company that added 100 jobs may say that their jobs caused suppliers to add 30 jobs and local businesses (groceries, etc.) to add several jobs. That company may claim their 100 jobs added 50 more and state it created 150 new jobs. Their supplier may claim their 30 jobs plus incidentals which is double counting new jobs.

In politics, you can safely assume that Republicans will enhance Bush's and reduce Clinton's and Obama's accomplishments...and Democrats will do the reverse! Go with your gut. Forget exact numbers, go with the flow. When you stop getting good deals, businesses are thinking we are recovering.

[Bob S.]

Kouak: "In politics, you can safely assume that Republicans will enhance Bush's and reduce Clinton's and Obama's accomplishments...and Democrats will do the reverse!"

But please note that Rush was just making up the stats to prove his point about the saving jobs comment by the Obama people.

Bob S.

[maliakei]

In the Judge Sotomayor (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?t=14618&page=10) thread, Illinois stated the following:

Illinois: "I heard Rush Limbaugh say today that during the 8 years of George Bush, 32 million jobs were saved or created. He didn't say in what country, however. I don't believe the country is the USA. How can anybody believe what these guys say?"

Interesting to know which states those jobs are in because there is definitely a job scarcity on Hawaii's big island. Our newspaper has fewer job listings than previous years. Don't listen to Rush Limbaugh.

[Rok]

There is a specific term that applies to those who make unknowable claims: hubris.

The created/saved quantity (though unknowable) is an example of the "seen". If you can point to a job that was created or saved by government action then you cannot point to the job that was not created/saved by that same action but would otherwise have been (the unseen).

To claim that X number of jobs were created/saved by forcibly extracting money and submitting it to government overhead before redistribution is, well, hubris. Far more likely is that jobs have been destroyed by government actions.

If employment mattered, the government could easily ask, "who wants a job?" and hand every raised hand a spoon. One half of the takers could dig holes with their spoons, and the other half could fill them in. Viola! The government could claim full employment.

But, what would that employment produce? Nothing. At the end of the day, there would be no more goods and services than at the beginning of the day, although many more hands were employed than the day before.

What matters is production. Not just any production, but production that individuals want and/or need.

Again, half the raised hands could be given spoons to dig up rocks, and the other half paint brushes to give them faces. However, if no one wanted to buy pet rocks, their production is a waste of resources.

There is a process by which entrepreneurs anticipate the wants and needs of other individuals and employ resources (including labor) to produce those goods and services. If they anticipate incorrectly, they lose their own stake, to the benefit of marginal consumers (those that would purchase the good or service, just not at the price the entrepreneur demanded). If they anticipate correctly, all consumers of that product or service benefit as well as the entrepreneur.

However, if instead the government takes the entrepreneur's stake and applies it to save or create jobs, then the government is preventing the jobs the entrepreneur (who is arguably closer to the consumer) would save or create.

In other words, for every job saved or created by government, there is at least one job destroyed or not created.

So, the higher the claim of jobs created/saved the greater the probability that more jobs have been destroyed.

[Smiley]

Could someone explain how the government can create jobs other than in forming/adding to a governmental agency? Jobs (other than feeding at the public trough) are created by companies or individuals. .or am I missing something??

[Naturist Mark]

Could someone explain how the government can create jobs other than in forming/adding to a governmental agency? Jobs (other than feeding at the public trough) are created by companies or individuals. .or am I missing something??

When they say the "government created jobs" they mean that they are giving the government credit for jobs created in the national economy due to economic growth. Some of that credit may be deserved, some not.

[Cheri]

I wish someone would save my job. It's supposed to evaporate by 7/1/2010

[Fitz1980]

Could someone explain how the government can create jobs other than in forming/adding to a governmental agency? Jobs (other than feeding at the public trough) are created by companies or individuals. .or am I missing something??

Well if the government builds or upgrades a bridge, a road, a building, a park or a rail line they contract with a private companies to build those things. Those companies hire workers to build those things.