Discussing naturism with non naturists

[NudeWiking]

How does a talk between you and non naturists eg family, strangers etc. go?
What reasons for not being a naturist and perhaps not want to look at nude people do they give. How do you respond?

Years back my sister in law was "offended" (well not exactly but anyway) by seeing me nude. To her nude = sex and there was not much I could say to make her think/feel othervise. Now years has gone by and I figure Id try to bring up the subject and see if she has changed her mind. My wife says some people just don't like seeing a nude man + something about the genitials. Not about sex but more estetical issues. I find it a bit difficult to respond to that.
best regards

[FireProf]

Discussing naturism with non nudists is a difficult subject to gauge when is a good time to do so. Many, many non nudists don't want to discuss the subject of nudity at all and feel embarrassed and uncomfortable by the subject.

It's almost better to wait until the subject comes up in a conversation by the non nudist instead of opening the conversation or topic yourself without some warning to the non nudist.

My wife has had several opportunities to tell her female friends about us but the conversation quickly turned because of embarrassment, on their part, when someone brought up nudity.

Good luck with your plans to discuss this with your sister in law.

FP

[walter05]

NudeWiking;

I have the feeling we are missing a piece of information.

If you sister in law caught you naked coming out of the shower or in your own home by surprise, I can imagine her being embarrassed. It is hard for me to understand how she would be offended.

What were the circumstances where she was offended by your nudity?

[David77]

My wife says some people just don't like seeing a nude man + something about the genitials. Not about sex but more estetical issues. I find it a bit difficult to respond to that.


The ancient Greeks made a smaller size penis and never a large penis on their male statues, as they thought that it looked more aesthetic.

Michaelangelo, an Italian, must have thought the same thing when he fashioned his famous statue of David.

In all things in the world some are more aesthetic looking than others - just as a course in Philosophy of Aesthetics indicates. One interesting point the philosophy of aesthetics brings out is that "a curve is more aesthitic than a straight line". A theory is, that since women have more curves (curvous) than men, they are more aesthetic looking than men's forms in general, who have more straight lines.

This has nothing to do with body acceptance nor the "reverence" and appreciation of the human form and the view of the human form. In our sketch group some men's forms are quite aesthetic looking - hopefully we draw/paint them to appear as aesthetic looking.

I dislike seeing a dog's big red penis, but I like dogs. This does not compare to humans with an erection as it does not offend me, as I try to consider the dignity, worth and apperciation of nature and humankind.

As for telling others about naturism, it all depends on who that person is in their individual "pschi". Are they so set in their thinking that they would reject you permanently? Do they have an open and inquiring mind? Etc.

[DenitaLC]

Very well put David!

From a female standpoint.....many women would rather look at another naked female body than than of a naked male. Perhaps it is from a comfort standpoint? I don't really know. We see ourselves in the mirror all the time and are aquainted with our parts. To a woman that hasn't been around naked males, it could be quite uncomfortable. A lot of these feeling revert back to ones upbringing, of course.

This is all just my speculation. Once you get it into your head that there are MEN and WOMEN and that everyone fits into these two catagories, it makes it easier to accept the body parts and that everyone has them.

[Sanslines]

Very well put David!

From a female standpoint.....many women would rather look at another naked female body than than of a naked male. Perhaps it is from a comfort standpoint? I don't really know. We see ourselves in the mirror all the time and are aquainted with our parts. To a woman that hasn't been around naked males, it could be quite uncomfortable. A lot of these feeling revert back to ones upbringing, of course.

This is all just my speculation. Once you get it into your head that there are MEN and WOMEN and that everyone fits into these two catagories, it makes it easier to accept the body parts and that everyone has them.


Perhaps women prefer to look at another female body for the sake of comparision. Women are constanly looking at and comparing themselves to other women to see how they 'stack up'. I have know more then my share of women who will see (what they perceive to be) a more attractive woman and then feel inferior and jealous. Society has determined that a woman's appearance is still numero uno.

[Fitz1980]

How does a talk between you and non naturists eg family, strangers etc. go?
What reasons for not being a naturist and perhaps not want to look at nude people do they give. How do you respond?


I wouldn't discuss nudism with my sister. She's just not the type. She once told me that she hated coming back to the dorm rooms from an early class and seeing girls in towels or bras walking through the hall way after a shower. She and her husband went to Italy on their honeymoon and when they were telling us about it them mentioned topless women on the beach as being "gross." Me and my girl smiled at each other on that one because we went to Haulover a month earlier, but we didn't mention it to them.

[David77]

Originally Posted by NudeWiking http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.clothesfreeforum.com/showthread.php?p=233851#post233851)
My wife says some people just don't like seeing a nude man + something about the genitials. Not about sex but more estetical issues. I find it a bit difficult to respond to that.

AESTHETIC JUDGEMENT

Judgments of aesthetic value clearly rely on our ability to discriminate at a sensory level. Aesthetics examines our affective domain response to an object or phenomenon. Many see natural beauty folded within petals of a rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose). Immanuel Kant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant), writing in 1790, observes of a man "If he says that canary wine is agreeable he is quite content if someone else corrects his terms and reminds him to say instead: It is agreeable to me," because "Everyone has his own (sense of) taste". The case of "beauty" is different from mere "agreeableness" because, "If he proclaims something to be beautiful, then he requires the same liking from others; he then judges not just for himself but for everyone, and speaks of beauty as if it were a property of things."

Viewer interpretations of beauty possess two concepts of value: aesthetics and taste. Aesthetics is the philosophical notion of beauty. Taste is a result of education and awareness of elite cultural values; therefore taste can be learned. Taste varies according to class, cultural background, and education. According to Kant beauty is objective and universal; thus certain things are beautiful to everyone. The contemporary view of beauty is not based on innate qualities, but rather on cultural specifics and individual interpretations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics#What_factors_are_involved_in_an_aesthet ic_judgment.3F

[NudeWiking]

Walter 05. Sorry to have left that out. It was in the inlaws garden one summer. My wifes parents are ok with me being nude. I was on my towell reading and I turned on my back. It was only later she told she didn't find that ok. Offcource she haven't seen me nude since :) On the other hand she seems perfectly comfortable sunbathing topless in our garden this summer so.........
Best regards

[NudeWiking]

Im not thinking about bringing up the subject for discussion like out of nowhere. It is more when comments are given to news eg the nude run on the Roskilde festival or the verdict against setting up "no nude bathing" sign on the beaches (Nudity is allowed on virtually every beach here) or when Im in the nude on the beach or when my wife asked "don't you mind everybody is looking". No I don't, I keep some distance to the textiles so its not like Im "in their faces". So its more when other people bring up the subject Im ready to discuss it. So what kind of comments do you get? What questions? And which prejudice get thrown at you? And how do you respond?
Best regards

[NudeAl]

I've had a couple of conversatins with one of my brothers and with my sisters. Mostly in a joking way something light haearted like no tanlines or packing light for a trip. I find it easier to open up to family than to a friend. I don't know why other than I know my family will always love me and not take things the wrong way.

I am trying to open up more to friends I have had a couple of interesting conversations lately but nothing too deep. I let it be known to a couple of friends recently that I am a nudist. I didn't try to convert anyone just let them know a little about my own experiences, places I've been or places nearby to where they might be traveling. I figure if the conversation comes up without me bringing it up I will chime in but I won't be the one to bring it up.

[richo]

I enjoy sunbathing nude, and a few of the vacations I've gone on have been to places with clothing-optional areas or beaches. I don't make any excuses for it to people who ask - if they don't want to know, they shouldn't ask.

I've got one friend who is totally insecure for a variety of reasons, but one of them is that he's overweight and yet someone who places a very high value on physical "perfection" - in other words, he doesn't meet his own ideal of what he thinks is attractive, so he's completely uncomfortable with his body. He knows I generally come back from trips without a tan-line, and his statements are always: "I could never do that", "Aren't you embarassed?", etc.

I find that most of the people who give me the "hardest time" about being nude have little to no self-esteem. I try to answer questions constructively and positively, but after the 4th or 5th "I can't believe you did that" I just change the subject.

[walter05]

Nudewiking;

I think your wife may have it wrong. I suspect that if your sister-in-law saw your naked behind, she would not have been any more happy. Seeing genitals may have raised her ire a bit.

The bottom line was that if she was visiting her parents or lives there, she was not expecting to see her sister's husband naked. She would prefer not to see her sister's husband naked.

However, if you had been coming out of the shower and wrapped in a towel, and the towel fell off revealing everything, she would have probably poked fun at you.

Your sister in law understands the idea of nudity for bathing or going to the bathroom and expects that will be private. She thinks the only other reason to expose genitals is for their other function which is sex. To her, you were displaying them and that may remind of of sex. It was not seeing your naked genitals that offended her but rather, in her mind, their being displayed for her to see.

It would really be best if your wife explained it to her. I believe you can't.

As far as the topic is concerned. I choose not to have to justify myself to other people. Only to myself. I therefore don't feel a need to broadcast it in general. If it comes up in conversation, I discuss it in the third person until I understand their reaction.

Richo;

In your case, offering to take your friend somewhere might be a great kindness. I would take him to a wilderness area or beach without a lot of people at first. Tell him he can stay clothed if he wants. I suspect, he will be naked before you are. I also suspect he will be able to resolve a lot of body issues.

Walter

[NudeWiking]

Well the incident happened years ago and thats not reall what I was after in thes thread. She was aware of me being nude in the garden so it was no surprice to her. My Idea with this was more to get a general idea of how naturist handle non naturists wievs and comments.
Best regards

[richo]

Richo;

In your case, offering to take your friend somewhere might be a great kindness. I would take him to a wilderness area or beach without a lot of people at first. Tell him he can stay clothed if he wants. I suspect, he will be naked before you are. I also suspect he will be able to resolve a lot of body issues.

Walter

Walter:

In this case, I wouldn't bother. He's got more issues than just body acceptance that likely need to be worked on before one could even get him in the car to go somehwere like a nude beach. I was simply observing that self-confidence issues are often at the root (or at least contributory) of aversion to social nudity.

[walter05]

Rich O;

You might be right with him. When we have self-confidence issues we usually think there is something wrong with us. Even if you told someone such as that they are okay, they will think it is because you don't really know them.

Having someone else still approve of him naked could be a big confidence boost. He would have nothing hidden.

However, I don't know your friend. I will accept your judgement on him.

Walter

[Home Nudist]

I don't understand the need some people seem to feel to broadcast that they like to be nude. Unless you plan on spending time with people (or are forced into it by family circumstances), and your nudity will be an issue, what's the point?

If it comes up in conversation, I am open enough to discuss it -- and I have.

But, I see no reason to blurt out to neighbors, family or friends that I sleep nude and spend as much time as possible around the house nude.

It would serve no purpose at all, and they have no need to know.

[NudeWiking]

>SNIP

If it comes up in conversation, I am open enough to discuss it -- and I have.

SNIP<


Thats what Im talkin about
And how did those conversations turn out?
Best regards

[walter05]

Nudewiking;

First of all, I agree with the concept that we don't need to discuss it just to get others' approval.

If there was someone that I thought might enjoy it, I might bring it up as if I was talking about a third person. Perhaps talking about how much I admire him or her for being comfortable naked. Then I would listen for the reaction and that listening would include body language.

If the person is not interested, I would either change the subject or stay silent and let the other person change the subject.

If the person seems open, I would say I would not mind a try.

If the person is still interested, I would discuss attempting to skinny dip at a beach, national park, etc.

[Home Nudist]

Originally Posted by Home Nudist

If it comes up in conversation, I am open enough to discuss it -- and I have.




Thats what Im talkin about
And how did those conversations turn out?
Best regards


For some reason, my cousin's wife mentioned (in his presence) that he never wore anything to bed. (I think we were discussing being hot or cold in bed, so the subject came up quite natually.)

I admitted the same and said, "It makes no sense to get dressed to go to bed."

There was no further discussion on it. No smiles or giggles. It was like we were discussing the weather.

To make another point:

Once you are used to being naked, and it becomes a way of life, it is a NON-ISSUE and doesn't need to be brought up. You just live your life. You proceed same as you would clothed. You don't think about it.

It's nothing to be ashamed of, and it doesn't need to be brought up. You don't need to "test" others with the fact -- as if you need their approval.

[NudeWiking]

For me its not about getting approval from anybody but when the subject is brought up I like to know peoples oppinion and maybe discuss the reason for why or why not. There are plenty of foras for naturists where we discuss things within our own ranks so I dont see any reason why not discuss with non naturists.
Best regards

[Home Nudist]

For me its not about getting approval from anybody but when the subject is brought up I like to know peoples oppinion and maybe discuss the reason for why or why not.

To each his own, but I don't share your desire to discuss being naked with textiles. Unless your nudity is an issue with others, I see the decision to have nude time a private matter. A non-issue. I also don't feel the need to "convert" others with the "whys or why not."

In your OP, you state:

Years back my sister in law was "offended" (well not exactly but anyway) by seeing me nude. To her nude = sex and there was not much I could say to make her think/feel otherwise. Now years has gone by and I figure Id try to bring up the subject and see if she has changed her mind.

So, YEARS have gone by, and you STILL think about bringing up the subject? Why? Do you see it as a challenge to try to bring her over to your way of thinking? And, what would be the point of that?

I'm not being critical; I'm trying to understand your line of thought.

[NudeWiking]

Sigh, this thread is going in a Circle :(

[walter05]

Nudwiking;

I posted the following. I am highlighting the part that provides instructions.

Is there more that you want?

Walter


Nudewiking;

First of all, I agree with the concept that we don't need to discuss it just to get others' approval.

If there was someone that I thought might enjoy it, I might bring it up as if I was talking about a third person. Perhaps talking about how much I admire him or her for being comfortable naked. Then I would listen for the reaction and that listening would include body language.

If the person is not interested, I would either change the subject or stay silent and let the other person change the subject.

If the person seems open, I would say I would not mind a try.

If the person is still interested, I would discuss attempting to skinny dip at a beach, national park, etc.

[NudeWiking]

Thank you Walter05
I was not seeking advice on the matter but rather wanted to know whether naturist ever got into talks or discussions with non naturists I provided a poor example of my own experience not meaning my sister in law should be the subject here. Here on this forum we discuss a lot of different subjects and sometimes people disagree. One might change view on a subject or might not, one might get his/her points of view approved or not but to me its all the different comments thats important. its due to them we get to know people. So why aren't naturists discussing this subject with non naturists?
best regards

[bernardc]

The best way I found in dealing with it,and then again,I am rather contravertial in my approach,is hands on!If it were I that was caught in the nde at ome,I would act absolutely normal.I would tell her/him straight ou,that i am a nudist/naturist.If i have for example a discussion with a person and they would hint atvisiting me,I tell them outright thatthey aremore than welcome,and just to realise that I am a nudist,and the cances are great in finding me naked at home all year/day around.I obviousely sleep in the nude,and if people come and visit unannounced,I open the door naked(morning glory or not),and allow them in,and will not get dressed at all.If its hot,and I come from the beach,and am escorted by someone,be assured that once at home,I will strip naked and remain naked.Further more,I am not shy at all in telling people I am a nudist.Best approach....outright and honest!

[bernardc]

:):)I justcome outright with it and tell people that i am a nudist.And somewhere youl find an opening.No reason to be embaressed.

[walter05]

NudeWiking;

If you catch someone off balance, that person will be defensive. When someone is defensive, that person will not listen.

The concept of nudism is too far from mainstream for most people. One can't invite a textile crowd over, go to a bedroom, strip naked and come out and discuss nudism. That will shock people, they will be defensive and not respond well.

If you agree that my extreme example is too shocking, then the idea is a gentle approach. That is why I have proposed what I have.

[nudetonenj]

I have no problem discussing naturism with my closest friends. However, I am not comfortable enough to let my coworkers know about my participation in naturism.

[richo]

Then again, there's my approach: I'll talk about anything with anyone, at pretty much any time, if they bring up the subject. Most of my friends, including those at work, have learned that if they don't want an answer to a question, they shouldn't ask the question. This includes pretty much every taboo topic in the book.

I guess part of it has to do with being gay and coming out in early highschool - once you've been through that, you lose a bit of the "protect others' sensibilities" reflex, if only because others' sensibilities often aren't very sensible. Now, that's not to say I'll bring something up in any group, but if I'm asked, I count it as fair game to tell the truth.

So, to me, it goes both ways: don't try to ambush someone with the topic, but I wouldn't recommend dancing around it either. Hiding or lying (or even "creatively censoring") about naturism only perpetuates the myth that there's something wrong with it: obviously you're ashamed of it or you'd feel more comfortable talking about it (or so they might say). Believe me, I've heard the same "logic" and responses with regards to being gay (and most people don't realize how similar the two situations are, with some difference in extremes obviously).

[Nashoba nowa]

It is very hard to do, I have been a naturist since childhood and even today some of my best friends do not understand what it is that I receive when I am clothes free.

[Rick_42]

It is very hard to do, I have been a naturist since childhood and even today some of my best friends do not understand what it is that I receive when I am clothes free.

I agree. I think part of that is because most non-nudists don't share the core experience of being a nudist and without that experience, they can't really understand the concepts.

As an example, I find it difficult to talk about my miltary experiences with non-veterans. Not having that core experience, they can't fathom how the military works why military procedures are they way they are. Yet I can talk to nearly any veteran about my military experiences even if they served in a different branch, different commands, or in different specialities. We can relate to each other because we have the common experience of having been in the military.

Nudism is somewhat similar, unless you've experienced it firsthand, it's hard to imagine it or understand it.