Women march toppless on Miami Beach

[Davin]

Many women say it's unfair that men are allowed to walk around shirtless and ask that the same right be extended to them.
http://cbs3.com/watercooler/go.topless.topless.2.1141599.html

[jason_boomer23]

well done to them, about time this double stardard was put away

[Naturist Zoar]

Topfree is legai in New York State.

[olebigtallone]

topfree is legal in New York state, but it is very uncommon to see anyone topfree. If other states would adopt the same policy, over time it would become common place and non erotic. The only thing not exposed, when a female is wearing a bikini, are the nipples. Everyone has nipples, so what is the fuss about? I aplaude anyone willing to fight to change the law. America is too prude. They need to learn how to be more acceptable like the Europeans

[NudonyII]

When women in France fought -and won -the right to be topfree on beaches (I think late sixties), it would take almost a decade before a large demographic started taking advantage of that right. Given the current social trends in the US, it would take twice as long - if not longer - for the same to occur here. And that's being optimistic.

[jon71]

Good for those women. They're absolutely right.

[JoseO42]

Yeah it was National Topless day on Sunday and several locations had rallies regarding the topic. I was at Haulover Beach on Sunday but I knew there was going to be some kind of event on Sunday.

[FoUTASportscaster]

I hate that every news story says the march was organized by the Raelians. It is like they are trying to discredit the movement by saying it was started by people who think alien scientists created humanity.

[Naturist Mark]

I hate that every news story says the march was organized by the Raelians. It is like they are trying to discredit the movement by saying it was started by people who think alien scientists created humanity.

The Raelians are the group behind the "GoTopless" protests and website. I think it is important to know when a group is not really grassroots and represents an interest other than that plainly displayed. In this case the GoTopless protesters are not hiding their Raelian affiliation - to their credit. But one must wonder if this is less about equal rights than about recruiting for a kooky cult.

People think we (nudists) are kooky enough. You may want to think carefully before attaching your reputation to a cult.

[FoUTASportscaster]

^Exactly what I mean. If I am someone who sympathizes, then I see they are involved, it might make me think I am a wierdo too and cause more harm in the long run.

[Fitz1980]

The Raelians are rather kooky, but I don't know if I'd classify them as a cult. The Freedom of Minds cult watch site & The Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor of the United States Department of State do not classify them as a cult, but a religion.

Their beliefs are pretty out there but so are most religious beliefs in my opinion. If you could show some of their writings to someone who had never heard of Christianity along side the Book of Genesis and ask this hypothetical person to pick which one was the text of a mainstream religion and which one was a kooky fringe group that person would probably have a hard time telling the difference.

Also I don't think it's fair that the media has given so much attention to the UFO beliefs when covering the topfree protests. If a fundamentalist Christan Church protests something like a violent video game or an adult video store you don't see the media saying "hey that group believes in the Genesis account of creation is a literal story."

[Agde]

Kooky cults are often leading indicators of change. Kooky and friendly is refreshing. Who wants to be dead serious about something as simple as "if men can take off their shirts so can women"? A little kookiness gets airtime.

[Naturist Mark]

The Raelians are a cult. Any religion except your own is a cult. Just ask any Fundy Preacher on the TV. (Those preachers would also say nudists are a cult.)

But seriously, Raelians are a small religious group with unusual beliefs, who revere a charismatic leader who closely controls their official beliefs. That may not fit your definition of a cult, but those are precisely the characteristics that many people are suspicious of, cult or not.

Unlike the anti-cult-movement's definition of a cult, Raelians do not practice indoctrination and an insistence on conformity that approaches mind control or "brainwashing", and they are not encouraged to break ties with family and community outside of their group. How many "mainstream" religions can claim that?

[nimrod]

What is the difference between a cult and a religion?

The number of members.

[meredith2kp4]

A topfree woman was arrested on GoTopless day in Keene, New Hampshire. She is being supported by the Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) (www.tera.ca) with her legal battle. What she did would be legal in Maine, where I live, and in Vermont. I suspect that it will turn out to be legal in New Hampshire.

[Naturist Mark]

What is the difference between a cult and a religion?

The number of members.

Well not really. But depending on who you ask you will get very different definitions. Those who deal with cults and their victims have a definition almost diametrically opposed to the definition that sociologists use - but sociologist have become very reluctant to use that term anymore in favor of NRM - New Religious Movements.

The non-sociological definition, the one used by the "anti-cult" movement (ACM for short) defines cults as having authoritarian, charismatic leadership, demanding unquestioning loyalty from their members, having many strict requirements to their members' personal lifestyles, using "brainwashing techniques", requiring members to isolate themselves from the surrounding society.

The sociological definition is innovative rather than conservative beliefs, loose membership structure, focus on the individual experience of the sacred, charismatic leadership, few requirements of their members and little involvement in the members personal lives, tolerance of other religions and no strict boundaries between the cult and the rest of society.

The Raelians fit pretty well in the sociological definition of a cult, but not the ACM definition.

Cult/religion is not either/or. Cults are religions, albeit usually rather small ones, but not always. However, it is considered impolite to call a cult with a large number of members by that name.

[nimrod]

Well not really. But depending on who you ask you will get very different definitions. Those who deal with cults and their victims have a definition almost diametrically opposed to the definition that sociologists use - but sociologist have become very reluctant to use that term anymore in favor of NRM - New Religious Movements.

The non-sociological definition, the one used by the "anti-cult" movement (ACM for short) defines cults as having authoritarian, charismatic leadership, demanding unquestioning loyalty from their members, having many strict requirements to their members' personal lifestyles, using "brainwashing techniques", requiring members to isolate themselves from the surrounding society.

The sociological definition is innovative rather than conservative beliefs, loose membership structure, focus on the individual experience of the sacred, charismatic leadership, few requirements of their members and little involvement in the members personal lives, tolerance of other religions and no strict boundaries between the cult and the rest of society.

The Raelians fit pretty well in the sociological definition of a cult, but not the ACM definition.

Cult/religion is not either/or. Cults are religions, albeit usually rather small ones, but not always. However, it is considered impolite to call a cult with a large number of members by that name.

Well thanks for all that info, but it was just a joke.

[Naturist Mark]

Well thanks for all that info, but it was just a joke.

LOL, no problem.

But really that is a pretty astute statement - it is not an accurate definition, but it pretty well sums up what most people think. Any small and unusual religion is a "cult" to most people. Like nudism.