New Sauna - Should I use it? [Archive]

Stu2630

09-13-2009, 10:07 AM

David77

09-13-2009, 11:55 AM

Congratulations, Stu, on your acquiring your described house.

I do not know much about the questions you ask, but here are some of my experiences and ideas, ideas mostly which I really do not know much authoritatively.

I have osteo-arthritis of the lower back which pains when I walk, but when I am seated I have no pain. I suppose that you may have tried a back brace made mostly of heavy cloth and velcro straps to tighten it. A cortison injection in the back once every six months may help. I had an outpatient operation where the nerves on the left side of my spine were destroyed, but it seems that it did no good.

The web pages on ostio-arthritis state that exercise is importrant for persons with osteo-arthritis. The Ys offer "classes" for arthritis exercise in the swimming pool. There is less pressure on the joints in the buoyant water in the pool which takes away much of the pain in movement. I merely swim laps. Exercising in the pool also builds muscles that are not used much because of authritis, and these muscles help a person got around better on dry land.

I have been told that, for joints, there is a time for hot presses and a time for cold presses. I, myself, do not want to get into cold water, but warm water is very relaxing. However, a person who is taking high blood pressure medicine should not get into a hot tub, because as they get out, they may faint.

There are dry saunas and there are wet saunas, but you did not say which sauna you have, but I, personally, do not know which would be best for your health.

Your doctor is prescribing pain-killers, thankfully.

Sorry that I don't know a great deal. I do wish you the best in your new location.

Fuzzy Nuts

09-13-2009, 12:22 PM

Stu - Your place sounds great and hope the sauna helps your back problems.

But just remember a sauna should be visited in your natural state - NAKED!!

Boreas

09-13-2009, 12:47 PM

Hi Stu, I have OA in my foot and in my neck. Heat makes it feel much better. I would welcome the use of a sauna and the heat would feel very good.

Try it out and see for yourself. Your body will tell you what it likes. You might also want to talk with your doctor or a physio about it.

Enjoy your new home. It sounds awesome.

Stu2630

09-13-2009, 01:01 PM

David

Thanks for all the advice - I'll definitely be following it! Especially the idea regarding exercises in a swimming pool. I'm not much of a swimmer, but I can see the benefits of it for someone with my condition.

I have been diagnosed with crumbling vertibrae in two, distinct places: my lowest two lumber vertibrae and three cervical ones. I have slight osteoporosis and my doctor in the UK initially suggested I consider oestrogen HRT, but the side effects would be dramatic. And yes, he was serious! Then he sent me for physiotherapy and all they did with me there was to put me on a machine rather like the medieval rack - I was strapped in and it slowly stretched me. It did no good at all! Then he said I would have to live with it and prescribed anti-inflammatory drugs and codeine for the pain. There was no mention of a brace, cortisone injections, exercise or surgery and, frankly, I wasn't too impressed that I just have to stuff myself with pills for the rest of my days. Now i am in Sweden, I will have a new doctor and I will have to see whether or not he can offer something more satisfactory.

My new sauna is a wooden affair on three levels with an electric heater which heats up some rocks and you can ladle water onto it. You are supposed to whack yourself with birch twigs after using it. My Swedish friends call it a "bastu" and say it helps with back pain and a host of other ailments, but I remain to be convinced. I will, however, try it. There is no hot tub at the house, but there is a plunge pool, which is supposed to remain icy cold, though I'm not sure I'll be using that.

Thank you for your kind wishes about our new house. We don't move in until January, but we are really looking forward to that.

Fuzzy Nuts

Thanks. I hope it helps, too, because at the moment I am finding the pain debilitating and the medication to take the pain away makes me woozie in the head.

Electricity in Sweden is frighteningly expensive, and our sauna is quite large and burns 3Kw per hour, so it will be costly to run. Consequently, my wife and I will be sharing one or two sessions a week and we will be suitably attired in large towels. But i think we'll manage without the swimming costumes.

Boreas

Thanks for your input on this, too. I'm hoping the Swedish doctor will be a bit more proactive in helping me deal with this condition.

Stu

Kari P

09-13-2009, 01:25 PM

My new sauna is a wooden affair on three levels with an electric heater which heats up some rocks and you can ladle water onto it. You are supposed to whack yourself with birch twigs after using it.

That's a modern Finnish sauna. Also Swedes have them in their houses (not so often as Finns) and they also make them to domestic and international markets. As I told earlier, the Swedish word for sauna is 'bastu'.

Fuzzy Nuts

09-13-2009, 02:32 PM

Stu - Pardon me for my flippancy in my response. I have suffered with back pain since I was in my early 20's and know that is is no laughing matter. I am now in my 70's.

A Chiropractor suggest to me that before I get out of bed in morning that laying on my back I bring both knees up to chest and hold it for a minute. I found that this works somewhat although I still get bouts of lower back pain which usually last for a week or so and then may not appear for a week or a year later - Why they appear I will never know.

I also found that using a weight-lifters belt snugly around my waist when doing any manual work around house or yard helps.

As far as heat from a sauna or hot tub it certainly feels better for a time but whether or not it has any lasting effect is questionable.

And remember when necessary pain killers such as Advil can work wonders.

09-13-2009, 03:08 PM

Hello, Stu:
Congratulations on your upcoming move. It could be a good investment, as well as your residence.

I am no medical doctor- but would figure the sauna would be great soothing for your back and your mind.

In Canada, we have medical people that are trained to provide pain management for chronic pain. In other words, they teach you how to live with pain, such that the impact of it, is less. Perhaps, this would work for you.

Best wishes.

David77

09-13-2009, 03:22 PM

My new sauna is a wooden affair on three levels with an electric heater which heats up some rocks and you can ladle water onto it. Stu

The electric dry sauna in our athletic club has a big bold sign stating that if anyone puts water in the sauna, they will be put out of the facility.

atalanta

09-13-2009, 04:00 PM

There are dry saunas and there are wet saunas, but you did not say which sauna you have, but I, personally, do not know which would be best for your health.

A sauna by definition is dry heat. Wet heat is a hammam or Turkish bath.

Use of a sauna is excellent for clearing out the pores and for circulation. It can also halt or cure a cold, though that does seem to be a bit of a lottery. It is important to follow the sauna immediately with a dip in a cold plunge pool or a cold shower in order to close the pores again. Coming from the heat of the sauna there is no discomfort in this, even in winter. An initial 10 minutes in the sauna, a cold dip or shower and a further 10-15 minutes sauna followed by the same is a good norm. At the end of the session you should lie down and relax for at least 10 minutes.

I have no expertise but cannot see why a sauna should have any influence, positive or negative, on osteo-arthritic problems. Not sure that I would want to use one with an acute inflammatory condition though, such as a gout attack.

Boreas

09-13-2009, 06:22 PM

Stu, I was freaked out when I saw my x-rays a couple of years ago. The x-ray tech asked if I had ever had a neck injury......had I broken my neck. I have virtually no discs between C5-6 and C6-7. I was in the middle of a flare-up and thought I was doomed. Since that time I have made some changes. I have a better chair at work for desk/computer work. I get a therapeutic massage regularly. I nip any pain in the bud before it gets bad. I have found that one Tylenol (acetaminophen) and one Advil (ibuprofen) instead of two of either, works best. I sometimes add a muscle relaxant. I have learned that tense muscles makes things worse. Hence a reason why heat is nice. I also have a chiropractic clinic with two chiropractors who know what my neck looks like, and use muscle release techniques that help. My neck has been pretty good since. (touch wood) I have recently come back from a drive mostly across Canada, five days of driving, and my neck feels okay. So far.

I think the trick is to settle a flare-up and then prevent further uprisings of inflammation. I do also get some good information from the Arthritis Society of Canada website/forum http://www.arthritis.ca/arthritis%20home/default.asp?s=1.

Of course too much computer time does not help though either. :rolleyes:

I hope you find relief. Pain sucks!

NudePete

09-13-2009, 06:56 PM

A sauna by definition is dry heat. Wet heat is a hammam or Turkish bath.

Use of a sauna is excellent for clearing out the pores and for circulation. It can also halt or cure a cold, though that does seem to be a bit of a lottery. It is important to follow the sauna immediately with a dip in a cold plunge pool or a cold shower in order to close the pores again. Coming from the heat of the sauna there is no discomfort in this, even in winter. An initial 10 minutes in the sauna, a cold dip or shower and a further 10-15 minutes sauna followed by the same is a good norm. At the end of the session you should lie down and relax for at least 10 minutes.

I have no expertise but cannot see why a sauna should have any influence, positive or negative, on osteo-arthritic problems. Not sure that I would want to use one with an acute inflammatory condition though, such as a gout attack.

From the Wikipedia entry for Sauna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna):
Under many circumstances, temperatures approaching and exceeding 100 °C (212 °F) would be completely intolerable. Saunas overcome this problem by controlling the humidity. The hottest Finnish saunas have relatively low humidity levels in which steam is generated by pouring water on the hot stones. This allows air temperatures that could boil water to be tolerated and even enjoyed for longer periods of time. Steam baths, such as the hammam, where the humidity approaches 100%, will be set to a much lower temperature of around 40 °C (104 °F) to compensate. The "wet heat" would cause scalding if the temperature were set much higher.

Stu, you use the ladle to control how humid (and how hot it feels) you want it. But by all means, don't start of with the thermostat set to the highest position!

luvnaturism

09-13-2009, 11:16 PM

Stu -

I've no advice to offer, but I'm genuinely sorry to hear of your health issues. I wish you well with them, and trust that your relocation will end up being a good move for you.

Sauna

09-14-2009, 02:14 AM

I have just signed contracts to buy a new house in southern Sweden. The house was originally built in 1943, but has been extensively modernised by the present owner and it has its own "spa" area, with a sauna, plunge pool, showers and "relaxation area" (installed just 6-months ago).

While I am looking forward to using this facility, I suffer from arthritis of the spine, caused by worn vertibrae, and I'm also asthmatic. I'm not sure whether having a sauna and a cold plunge would be good for me, or if it would exacerbate my conditions or interfere with the medication I have, namely anti-inflammatory drugs, codeine and steroid inhalers. Does anyone know anything about this?

Stu

I do not see any problems for using sauna and cold plunge. It is more the opposite. The cold plunge after sauna is dangerous only if you have heart problems. If you have very low bood tension, be carefull in sauna no need to avoid it. Otherwise it is good for your health and the sweating cleans your body deelpy. Follow your feelings. If it does not feel good then come out and cool for a while. Finns have no time rules for sauna. They come out of the sauna when they feel it good and have an intermediate cooling and then go back to sauna. Because you loos water remember to drink after sauna. Only if you have infection the hot is not a good thing.

http://www.sauna.fi/sweatbaths.html

Smiley

09-14-2009, 05:12 AM

I've had several heart attacks over the years and some heart muscle died. I'm retired now and still doing hard physical labor, according to the cardiologist my heart function continues to improve due to the work. Several years ago I had surgery on my back for pain caused by shrinkage of the spinal canal in the lumbar area. .seems to have helped quite a bit. Plus there again the type of work I do has helped a lot with that. I'm just not ready for spending a lot of time in an easy chair.

At this time I take some short time in a sauna when available. A cool, not cold shower right afterward feels good, and there's no faintness. I would prefer a cold dip but the cardiologist advises against it, hence the cool shower instead.

While what I do helps me, everyone will have to work out their own solutions.

Stu2630

09-14-2009, 10:13 AM

Wow! Thanks for all the advice and kind words, everyone. I'll definitely be following them up. I'll try FuzzyNuts' suggestion regarding the morning stretch and the use of the weightlifter's belt (I have one) for doing chores. We don't have Advil here, so far as I know, but I find the strong codeine/paracetomol combination quite effective.

The pain comes and goes. I have days when it's quite debilitating and other days when I hardly notice it, but as i get older, it does seem to be gradually getting worse, as one might expect. Physiotherapy really didn't help at all, but if I can reduce my teaching hours, I'll take advantage of the free staff usage of the new gym at my university. My eldest daughter assures me that muscle strengthening and suppleness exercises are generally helpful for sufferers of mild osteo-arthritis.

I'll certainly try the sauna - it can't hurt and it might just help, if only to assist in relaxation. Plus, you always feel clean and generally good after a sauna!

Stu

Naturist Mark

09-14-2009, 04:20 PM

We don't have Advil here, so far as I know, but I find the strong codeine/paracetomol combination quite effective.
Advil is a brand name for (RS)-2-(4-isobutylphenyl)propanoic acid, known generically as ibuprofen - a non-narcotic NSAID.

In Sweden it is sold under the brand names Ibumetin and Ipren, as well as the generic Ibuprofen.

Naturist Mark

09-14-2009, 05:22 PM

I was freaked out when I saw my x-rays a couple of years ago. The x-ray tech asked if I had ever had a neck injury......had I broken my neck.

When I was hospitalized two years ago with massive injuries, my head, neck and spine were pretty much the only uninjured areas I had (I was wearing top quality armored gear to protect my head and spine when a truck ran me over at a red light). But the doctors didn't believe me when I told them my head, spine and neck were fine. They had a very ill fitting neck brace on me that was so oversized that it blocked by nose, but wouldn't remove it. They said the X-rays and MRI clearly showed I had a broken neck. I said nonsense.

When we finally got a specialist to review the scans he found that my neck had indeed been broken, but was now fully healed. Apparently I broke my neck at some point in the past ... and never knew it.

Boreas

09-14-2009, 08:04 PM

When I was hospitalized two years ago with massive injuries, my head, neck and spine were pretty much the only uninjured areas I had (I was wearing top quality armored gear to protect my head and spine when a truck ran me over at a red light). But the doctors didn't believe me when I told them my head, spine and neck were fine. They had a very ill fitting neck brace on me that was so oversized that it blocked by nose, but wouldn't remove it. They said the X-rays and MRI clearly showed I had a broken neck. I said nonsense.

When we finally got a specialist to review the scans he found that my neck had indeed been broken, but was now fully healed. Apparently I broke my neck at some point in the past ... and never knew it.

Has it been two years already? How are you doing?

The person who asked if I had broken my neck was a x-ray tech. The radiologist did not mention anything about that in his report. He had all manner of other words like "stenosis" and "osteophytes" etc. I had to look them up and I have a decent medical terminology knowledge.

Naturist Mark

09-14-2009, 08:40 PM

Has it been two years already? How are you doing?

The person who asked if I had broken my neck was a x-ray tech. The radiologist did not mention anything about that in his report. He had all manner of other words like "stenosis" and "osteophytes" etc. I had to look them up and I have a decent medical terminology knowledge.

Two years come Sept 20th.

I'm still improving. Sometimes it seems terribly slow. I can walk pretty well for someone who should have lost a leg, still can't walk very far ... but I'm working on that too. (Ironically I have more trouble from my "good" leg with the broken down knee cartilage). My right hand, which was paralyzed is now almost all back.

I had some amazing doctors, procedures and care that rebuilt me. But even though "fully insured" (Ha!) had to go through some really stupid hoops to get necessary care, and had to forego a lot of things that should have been provided - like physical and occupational therapy after leaving the hospital - all I got was a photocopied worksheet of exercises. And then there are the things I'm still not supposed to talk about because of possible litigation - and no, I'm not suing anyone, but I'll damn well file a devastating countersuit if push comes to shove.

I'm a big fan of the art and science of healing, while absolutely aghast at the inhumane, cruel, senseless, heartless, abusive and health destroying aspects of the "business" side of healthcare.

Boreas

09-14-2009, 10:03 PM

Wow, time flies. I am glad to hear you are progressing. Had you had the accident in Canada, you would have gotten all the necessary treatment to heal, and would not have had to fight to get proper treatment. You might not get as much physio as recommended, but you would have gotten some. And you would have been able to pay for some, or have it covered by your work extended health plan, if you had one. That is one thing that is under-covered here, and which is a pet peeve of mine. Especially in cases like yours.

Redtan

09-15-2009, 09:39 AM

Had you had the accident in Canada, you would have gotten all the necessary treatment to heal, and would not have had to fight to get proper treatment. You might not get as much physio as recommended, but you would have gotten some.

Not my experience! In Canada you have to fight for your treatment and there are many areas that are not fully covered - not least of which is physiotherapy. We generally have the slowest most inefficient imaging (X-ray, CAT, PET, MRI) anywhere in the western world! Treatment for eating disorders and psychological problems is almost non-existent. Our cancer response time is glacially slow (see imaging) unless you happen to have one of the types that catches a lot of press.

Back to the topic - Saunas are often referred to as the 'poor man's pharmacy'. Dry heat is generally beneficial to all sorts of aches and pains. As to whether it would suit you, Stu, talk to your Dr. if you have any concerns. Adding water to the rocks increases the apparent heat by upping the humidity which makes you feel the heat more. I find that what works best for me is to heat thoroughly (about 15 minutes @ 70-75'C); then put a ladle of water on the rocks. That will result in you breaking a sweat within the next few minutes which (in Sauna-speak) releases the toxins. I don't know about that but it makes you feel good and relaxes your muscles.

LamontCranston

09-15-2009, 11:34 AM

I find that what works best for me is to heat thoroughly (about 15 minutes @ 70-75'C); then put a ladle of water on the rocks. That will result in you breaking a sweat within the next few minutes which (in Sauna-speak) releases the toxins. I don't know about that but it makes you feel good and relaxes your muscles. But Stu... he forgot to add at the beginning, "Without a stitch of clothing... " :eek:

The good news in all this is that you *are* getting older. That's not true of everyone around us as we count blessings. I wish you well.

Stu2630

09-15-2009, 02:13 PM

NaturistMark

In Sweden it is sold under the brand names Ibumetin and Ipren, as well as the generic Ibuprofen.

Thanks. I'm afraid I'm a bit past the Ibuprofen stage - it helps little these days. The only NSAID which does give me some relief, if I take it continually for at least 24-hours, is diclenofac sodium.

when a truck ran me over at a red light

OUCH! That does sound painful. You must count your blessings that you are still with us.

I put my upper spine problems down to practising judo from age 11 to being around 20 years. I was a member of a junior girls squad when I was 13, and just two years later I was entering grading contests against grown men. I think that relatively rapid and dramatic change resulted in me suffering some heavier falls than I was built to take at that stage and did some damage that I was unaware of.

Redtan

Thanks, I will check out with my doc that it's OK to use the sauna, also because i am on various medications. At my previous health club, I liked to add a few drops of eucalyptus or clove oil to the water before ladling it on. That certainly clears the tubes!

LamontCranston

he forgot to add at the beginning, "Without a stitch of clothing... "

Do large towels count as "clothing"? :o

Stu

maliakei

09-15-2009, 04:09 PM

I'm a big fan of the art and science of healing, while absolutely aghast at the inhumane, cruel, senseless, heartless, abusive and health destroying aspects of the "business" side of healthcare.

AMEN! I find natural works best for pain like massage, accupressure, hot bath, heat & ice packs, stretching too. All this has helped me alot. It's terrible being in pain. Yes, use the sauna, but do it in moderation. I wish all of you the very best.

Boreas

09-16-2009, 08:47 AM

Do large towels count as "clothing"? :o

What, and not take the opportunity to become more comfortable with nudity in a safe environment??? ;)

Sauna

09-16-2009, 09:41 AM

What, and not take the opportunity to become more comfortable with nudity in a safe environment??? ;)

Towels are clothing and uncomfortable at sauna.

I have lifetime experience of using sauna. We had while the four children were still at home every saturday a sauna evening. We went all together to sauna and after it we spent the rest of the evening with open fire and sausages. The children loved it. Also we asked if we had guests to join and mostly they did it. If somebody was little hesitant my wife said they are our families who cares. Our child when visiting home they always want to have sauna and they still join us. What special even on hot summer days the open fire is a must.

David77

09-16-2009, 03:30 PM

David

Thanks for all the advice - I'll definitely be following it! Especially the idea regarding exercises in a swimming pool. I'm not much of a swimmer, but I can see the benefits of it for someone with my condition.

Stu

You don't have to be a good swimmer. The instructor at the Y's pool gives the arthritic people instruction to "water-walk". This is walking back and forth in the water alternately from each side of the pool. You can also walk forward and walk backward if you wish.
Another method of "water-walking" is traveling sideways by opening the feet and closing the feet. Of course, the faster you "water-walk" the more water resistance you feel. Your joints may not ache in the buoyant water, or not ache as much, but as your daughter says, will add suppleness and muscle. Relaxing too, and if you can do it in a group, the comaraderie can be appreciated.

"Water walking workouts and water aerobics are a no-impact way to strengthen your body, and good crosstraining from walking on land".

Water Walking Instructions;
http://spas.about.com/od/exercise/a/waterwalking.htm

Naturist Mark

09-16-2009, 04:09 PM

Do large towels count as "clothing"? :o

Stu

I'm going to disagree with the others here ... I would say that in the context of a sauna they do not count as clothing.

I would say that if you could be comfortable taking a sauna, even wrapped in a huge towel, you'd be taking a huge step towards putting health and comfort ahead of an aversion to nudity.

Sauna

09-16-2009, 11:26 PM

You don't have to be a good swimmer. The instructor at the Y's pool gives the arthritic people instruction to "water-walk". This is walking back and forth in the water alternately from each side of the pool. You can also walk forward and walk backward if you wish.
Another method of "water-walking" is traveling sideways by opening the feet and closing the feet. Of course, the faster you "water-walk" the more water resistance you feel. Your joints may not ache in the buoyant water, or not ache as much, but as your daughter says, will add suppleness and muscle. Relaxing too, and if you can do it in a group, the comaraderie can be appreciated.

"Water walking workouts and water aerobics are a no-impact way to strengthen your body, and good crosstraining from walking on land".

Water Walking Instructions;
http://spas.about.com/od/exercise/a/waterwalking.htm

Water walking is here very popular in public pools. You have a special belt and walk in the pool. It is very energy consuming and your weight is not on yout feet.