public nudity

[harrycrumb]

The idea that nudity is seen as a way to bring people together and "promote unity" is still a long way off. Nudity and differences in breasts, buttocks, penises, vaginas and the like is still clothed in shame and power displays by many who espouse themselves as open minded nudists. "Ideal and attractive" bodies are still more acceptable. We are not evolved yet to have lifestyles that are more open than our minds. just check out the video at this link-> Tittilating but more of the same beautiful breasts and well hung men. www.nothing-to-hide.co.uk (http://www.nothing-to-hide.co.uk)

[Arnabas]

Interesting...

I agree that our preconceptions of what is beautiful is one of the harder prejudices to overcome. Any time you see "nudists" in any remotely mainstream way, they are invariably young, slim and attractive (by the average person's definition).

Still, that a company could take their tag line "Nothing to hide" and create an ad campaign of a couple-dozen men and women totally and casually nude is great.

Would be even better if such an ad campaign could make it to mainstream TV and print ads.

[nudenwv]

yes, i'll agree the models are quite attractive and young. remember, the company is selling a product. although i'd be more than welcomed to join the team i don't think someone would be tempted to by the product as quick as seeing young bodies. that's big business. looks like nice line of products too!

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Arnabas:
I agree that our preconceptions of what is beautiful is one of the harder prejudices to overcome.
We can be accepting of a wide variety of body shapes and appearances, but what is considered beautiful will continue to be a fairly small percentage of all people.

I have seen psychology experiments done where brain activity is monitored for young kids that are too young to speak very well or at all. There were definite differences in the facial expressions and brain activity when someone who society would consider beautiful was brought in front of these children. The test was based on the child only looking at the person.

When someone with average appearance or less was brought forward the test results indicated an obvious negative reaction. It seems that our sense of what is beautiful is already in our brains prior to being taught this by exposure to advertising.

Even the researchers seemed surprised by the consistency of the test results across a lot of test subjects.

[Stu2630]

Of course they would never get away with showing full frontal nudity on TV adverts, even if it were entirely non-sexual nudity.

Stu

[David77]

There is an entire field of study as to what is considered beautiful, called "Philosophy of Aesthetics".
One axiom is that a curved line is more aesthetic (beautiful) than a straight line. (Women have more curves, of course).

[DoctorSurferDude]

Oh....I guess I just assumed all european women had big breasts and all european men had trunks under their trunks. (kidding)

Well...I guess we have to consider that it IS a tv commercial, so if they are at all trying to sell beauty products, then representing something real, or real average, would probably not help them sell much. They are catering to the consumer.

For instance....if I developed a new exercise machine, then used myself as the body model...well, chances are I wouldn't sell very many http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/tongue.gif

But...you'll be happy to know that the President of that company is actually in the commercial...not sure which one exactly, but she is probably one of the people who doesn't look like a hired model.

[nimrod]

I see an advertisement for beauty products, it really has nothing to do with nudism. They seem to be trying to sell a product to people who are insecure about their looks. Showing the "ideal" human body plays into peoples inscurities. The "if I use this product I could look like them" mentality rises and they buy the product. It was clever to use nudity with the product that wants to promote that they are using natural ingredients, and therefore have nothing to hide, but using the "ideal" body has been around for a long time, I see it all the time in advertising.

[threadbare]

Originally posted by DoctorSurferDude:


But...you'll be happy to know that the President of that company is actually in the commercial...not sure which one exactly, but she is probably one of the people who doesn't look like a hired model.

She is the brunette behind the laptop.

[Stu2630]

I guess we have to consider that it IS a tv commercial,

They haven't shown this on British TV and I very much doubt that they will - or on any other European network. This is an Internet ad, not a TV one.

Stu

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Originally posted by Stu2630:

They haven't shown this on British TV and I very much doubt that they will - or on any other European network. This is an Internet ad, not a TV one.

Stu

The big difference being...I can click off an internet ad! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/stickdance.gif

They rarely show fat people in a McDonald's ad...and they always show beautiful people in soap commercials, as well as shampoo, sun tan lotions.....it is nothing new!

[tomkojohn]

Did anyone else notice the pregnant woman in the ad? I thought that was a nice touch. I think they did a good job at having a multi-ethnic group of people, and tried to be inclusive. They did however populate the comercial with "beautiful" people, but that is what sells beauty products.

-- tomkojohn

[kphoger]

The idea that nudity is seen as a way to bring people together and "promote unity" is still a long way off. Nudity and differences in breasts, buttocks, penises, vaginas and the like is still clothed in shame and power displays by many who espouse themselves as open minded nudists.

forget breasts! what people are REALLY hung up on is the belly. ask a woman what she's unhappy with about her body, and she'll probably say her belly. the world needs to see that folds and stretch marks are normal. in west africa, stretch marks are considered a badge of honor; what do they know that we don't?

[Rabid_Clam]

In all actuality, the first thing I look at in a person is a most fleeting glimpse of body size and shape. That will tell me if it is he or she first and then age and then something about presentation.

To really examine the person I look into the face. Not to judge or get preception of beauty or handsomness, but to assess state of mind and demeanor. That will tell me if they are happy, fun, depressed, angry or any other emotional state as well as normal over all state of their being.

That is allot to gain in a fleeting glimpse but seems to work for me.

For instance, I looked at a blind woman. She was young and in decent shape for a mid aged person. But her face showed decided strain but acceptance of all that was about her as much as she was not a happy person. She was a kind person and otherwise in great mental state of mind, just a very sad person over all.

That made me sad. I don't think blindenss it self made her so unhappy as much *** all the limitations of society that is placed on her. Wish I could offer a better situation so I could see a beautiful smile I know she can create.

[TheNorm]

forget breasts! what people are REALLY hung up on is the belly. ask a woman what she's unhappy with about her body, and she'll probably say her belly. the world needs to see that folds and stretch marks are normal. in west africa, stretch marks are considered a badge of honor; what do they know that we don't? Yep, but it applies to men as well. (Just look at all of the avatars with the sucked in bellys. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif )

What I find interesting is that many of the recent nudist photos display a far more relaxed abdomin than the posed shots from the 50's and 60's. After the belly, it's got to be the butt. "Does this towel make my butt look big?" http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

[nudebushwalker]

Ad's like this might make it on to late, late TV down here...

And I would bet those products are overpriced?

[BinCo]

What I find interesting is that many of the recent nudist photos display a far more relaxed abdomin than the posed shots from the 50's and 60's. TheNorm

I might sound pretty obvious to some and mean to others, but the pictures of people from the 50's and 60's are like that for a reason, actually a number of them.

1) No fast food, if much take out or resturant food at all.
2) Not much TV or radio to listen to for hours on end. Remember your fav TV or radio show, those who lived in this time? Remember any others?
3) Most jobs needed some manual labor.
4) Everyone was able to do things themselves so they did not hire manual laborers to do household chores. You might hire the kid next door to mow the yard.
4) Did I mention the junk food?
5) All the crap in today's food. Time was that potato chips consisted of......wait for it.....Potatoes, cooking oil and salt.
6) Sedentary lifestyle anyone?

Every picture I have seen from that time has a thin person in it. I'm sorry, but you can suck in your gut until it explodes, you are not getting a six pack like that.

[Bobx23456]

Well, I was growing up in the fifties and a young man in the 60s and sometimes these "back then" comments rub me the wrong way.

Originally posted by BinCo:
1) No fast food, if much take out or resturant food at all.

Not counting McDonalds, A&W, Dairy Queen, Arctic Circle, and a host of mom and pop burger and pizza joints

2) Not much TV or radio to listen to for hours on end. Remember your fav TV or radio show, those who lived in this time? Remember any others?

Poppycock! We lived in a small town so we didn't get TV until the last half of the 50s, but the big city nearby got COLOR TV in 1954 Sure, there was only 3 major networks, but many people started watching the tube every night. Local baseball teams and other evening entertainment started closing down in the late 50s. By the 60s TV was as addictive as today, maybe more so. And of course radios were constantly on wherever you went.

3) Most jobs needed some manual labor.

Some did, but there were many office jobs too. Paperwork was a constant. My parents were office workers, for example.

4) Everyone was able to do things themselves so they did not hire manual laborers to do household chores. You might hire the kid next door to mow the yard.

I was the kid who mowed the lawns. Sure, there were "do it yourself" fads, but there weren't the "big box" do it yourself stores like today (Home Depot for example.) By the 50s most housework no longer took much physical labor, all the women had washing machines and many had dishwashers.

4) Did I mention the junk food?
5) All the crap in today's food. Time was that potato chips consisted of......wait for it.....potatoes, cooking oil and salt.

You seem to be down on "junk food." I remember spending a lot of time hanging out at a Geno's Pizza in 1960-63. Pizza had more cheese then. Don't kid yourself. Velveta processed cheese food is no new invention.

6) Sedentary lifestyle anyone?

Perhaps the biggest changes are in cars and transportaion. A two car family was rare in the 1950s and most kids walked to school. Adults would walk 3 blocks or even more to shop. There were neighborhood stores where you could walk to. Those have all gone away.

Video games were long in the future. There were no computer forums to waste your time. More time was spent just hanging out with friends.

Every picture I have seen from that time has a thin person in it. I'm sorry, but you can suck in your gut until it explodes, you are not getting a six pack like that.

Women in the 50s were EXPECTED to have a lot more fat than women today. The models and female movie stars [Marilyn for example] were plush and curvey, not skin and bones like today's Hollywood and fashion models. Men too weren't so obsessed. I never heard of "six pack" until much, much later. There were a few "muscle men" contests, but Charles Atlas even looked healthy, not like the muscle contestants today. We seem to have gone to extremes whether it be skin and bones women, to overbuilt muscles. Maybe that's the real difference.

Blessings,
Bob

[BinCo]

Well Bob,

You can bash my comments all you like, the FACT remains that more people in the US today are considered grossly obese than ever before. More people are overweight than before. There are a miriad of reasons, some of which I listed, there are certainly more.

Sure junk food has been around, but it has not been consumed in the quantity it is today. Kids are inundated with junk food ads on childrens TV networks.

Since I was born in the late 60's I was not around for the fun, all I can base these comments on is the people I know who were raised in the 50's and 60's. They overwhelmingly know how to cook for themselves, whereas most of the people I know my age or younger eat out 40-50% of their meals. Even when I was a kid we might have gotten McDonalds once a week, usually no more than twice a month. Mom cooked. Now people have filled their schedules to the point that the idea of spending an hour cooking is time wasted. This is also based on the numerous families I know who do things constantly and hardly ever cook for the family. It is a well discussed issue that families do not get together for meals anymore.

Women used to be a lot more curvy, the crack-*****-skinny today is disturbing to say the least. Yet, so is the increase in early onset diabetes and other diseases that can be prevented with proper, or reasonable, diet that overweight people seem to ignore. I can state this on one fact, my entire in-law family is overweight, all of them have very poor diets and eat a lot of junk food. While many of the people we associate with are in the normal weight range and are healthy. For my wife and I a bag of potato chips usually lasts about 3-4 months. How about you?

We went clothes shopping for her and we were disappointed that the "womens" section of JCP was larger than the normal and petite areas. The problem is simple Bob. America is so afraid of hurting someones feelings that they are willing to change what is normal instead of working on getting people healthy by pushing to reduce junk food consumption. The idea that every woman who has a baby should expect to be 30 pounds heavier for the rest of her life is being pushed as the norm and being acceptable. Now they have a plastic surgery I saw advertised in the paper for the "Mommy Body-Bring back your old self". Was this always the norm? I tend to think not.

Bob, I must say this, as mean as it might be. Judging by your avatar you are in the overweight category so you have a bias on the opposite side that I have. I do not like seeing how America is getting out of shape and overweight and how corporate America and the government are standing by making money off of it. They make money making us fat, then they make money selling us drugs to keep us alive then they make money having us die early.

BTW: what I have heard is that Marilyn was a size 14, not the same as today's 14 though.

[walter05]

Binco;

First of all, your personal attack on Bob's size is out of line. I think it even might violate the agreement to be on this forum. You should not make a personal attack.

I am in excellent shape. My family and I eat home cooked meals every night of the week. I share your concern about how fat people are getting. However, your positions contradict the facts. You make a weak argument.

People put on weight for two simple reasons. They consume too many calories and/or burn too few.

I was born in the early 60s. As I remember it, there was a lot of fast food in the 60s. There were also a lot of restaurants for eating out. However, the portions were smaller. Now with supersized and value meals, people can consume more than a day's worth of calories in one meal.

Even home cooked meals can be fattening. Macaroni and Cheese is one of the most fattening foods and yet a lot of families love it because children love it. It is cheap and easy.

It takes time to cook healthy meals. It also takes a lot of effort to train the children to like healthy meals. In our society today, too many parents want to be their kids's best friends and not their parents. The X-box and/or computer is the baby sitter. This leads to fatter, ruder kids.

[Buff Man in MI]

I agree, don't attack anyone on CFF for the way that they look. If you know someone personally, then you can make them aware of your concern for their health, etc. but don't do it to someone you do not know.

I have to disagree with the diets of generations pre-1960 being all that healthy. My parents were born in the mid 1920's. My mother and her mother used to cook with lard and bacon drippings in almost everything, including homegrown vegetables. Ever heard of Fried Green Tomatoes? They are still one of my favorite meals, but to get them I have to grow my own tomatoes, or "'maters" as my grandmother would say. Having been fed my mother's cooking, only rarely a pizza and then ususally Chef-Boyardee or homemade, I was overweight as a child, and am now overweight or obese as an adult, so I think you can disregard the fast-food part of the argument. I was very active as a child, walked a mile to school, ran a mile plus back home delivering newspapers, overweight all the while. If I wasn't walking or biking somewhere, I was playing baseball or football at someones house, or in an empty lot or in the street. So I got plenty of exercise, still I was overweight.

My personal opinion is that the human species goes through cycles, just like the rest of the flora and fauna in nature. IF there is an actual increase in obesity, then it might be a cycle and eventually there will be a counterswing. Maybe it has to do with the way evolution molded us to survive famine, I don't know. Of course I could be wrong and it could be a government conspiracy, or flouridation. The important thing to remember is to enjoy life while we are alive, 'cause we are all going to die of something. If I could choose my mode of death it would be suffocation. (If you want to know the weapon I have in mind, that will have to be a private message.) http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/yes.gif

------------------------
Tom Snyder died on Sunday. I'd just like to say goodbye, Tom. Thanks for all the good topics you had on your show like Uri Geller, the Chinese guy that made a million noodles, etc. But especially the show that led me to choose computer science as my career. I'll miss you, you were very entertaining. "Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air." - Tom Synder (1936-2007)

[BinCo]

Walter05, Point well taken. Sorry about the personal comments Bob.

I have had 4 friends and 2 relatives die in the last 6 years, all under the age of 55, all overweight and all from conditions related to that and all were preventable. What was saddest was that everyone around them saw it happening and tried to help to no avail.

So this is a topic that is close to me as my wife and I know that we will end up burying all 4 of her younger siblings if they do not do something about their weight.

As far as things in the food we get, look into how much high fructose corn syrup is used today. Our food source is contaminated with chemicals and we sit idly by and think that no one would feed us stuff they know is bad for us.

You are certainly right about portion size. We always get 2 meals from every resturant we go to. Why do they do that?

[Buff Man in MI]

B in CO,

I agree, food additives have got to go. Pick up a jar of peanut butter, yep, high fructose cprn syrup, or molasses. Look at the "sugar free" sweetener, Equal. It's main ingredient is dextrose, corn sugar. Yogurt, remember when (sorry Bob) it was milk and bacteria?

[kphoger]

By the 50s most housework no longer took much physical labor, all the women had washing machines and many had dishwashers.
my folks got married in 1973, and they used a manual wringer for the first year or two. they didn't own a dishwasher until 2000 or 2001.

Perhaps the biggest changes are in cars and transportaion. A two car family was rare in the 1950s and most kids walked to school. Adults would walk 3 blocks or even more to shop. There were neighborhood stores where you could walk to. Those have all gone away.

IMO, this is the big one. my folks grew up in a family of seven, and they eventually got a car. people bicycled, people walked, people walked to the bus stop. nowadays, take a look at north avenue in chicago's far west suburbs: six lanes of traffic, but no bus route and no sidewalks. times sure have changed.

when i was a kid (1990s), i rode my bike everywhere. when i moved away from home, a classmate totalled my car and i was back to what they now call "alternative" transportation. for six years in the chicago suburbs, i got around by walking, bicycling, bus, train, skateboard, hitchhiking, rollerblades. i used to go grocery shopping by lugging a shopping cart (remember those? they still make them) with me on the bus, used to go to college every day by walking two miles, catching a bus for two miles, and walking another mile and a half. my advice: if you want to lose the gut, then wreck your car.

where i grew up, which was kansas farm country, people would eat bacon and eggs every morning and beef every night, but still live to be 100 years old. it's because they worked for a living, out on the farm. there's still a lot of work involved in farming, but definitely not like in days gone by; their diet isn't changing as fast, though, and i worry about the health problems that are sure to come.

personally, i like to see pictures of all body types. maybe it's because i'm skinny that i appreciate the way a fuller figure looks, i don't know.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Buff Man in MI:
I have to disagree with the diets of generations pre-1960 being all that healthy. My parents were born in the mid 1920's. My mother and her mother used to cook with lard and bacon drippings in almost everything, including homegrown vegetables. Ever heard of Fried Green Tomatoes?


Indeed, in the 1950s, my cook at home mother kept a bacon fat jar on the counter. It came with a double top part, the inside part had small holes to let the fat through and hold out the solids from the bacon. Lots of lard and bacon grease in kitchens then. Overall, my mother was a horrible cook.

There is a human tendency to recolect "the good old days" and think that today it's gotten so much worse. I have noticed that some of the people saying how good life was in the 1950s and 1960s were born in the late 1960s and didn't really remember anything befor the 1970s. But average life expectancy today is HIGHER than it was in the 1950s and 1960s, so despite all the "healthy" lifestyles that are remembered fondly by those who didn't live through them, people died younger, on average.

In general, a life of hard physical work wears you out sooner than a life of comfort. While some old farmers do life long, I've known a good many who were planted fairly young. Statistically speaking, too much hard work isn't any better than none.

I read recently that science is starting to understand how red wine extends your life by about 20% and how some genes control natural defenses for heart problems and diabetes, etc. But the cure for dying young will liketly be a way off yet.

For Binco, I can guarantee that I will live past my 50s, despite your comments about body type. One of the biggest factors in long life is genetics, and research is hot on the trail of "turning on" certain genetic codes that increase lifespan.

Blessnigs

Bob

[TheNorm]

I also grew up in the '50s and '60s but I do remember eating better than most families do today. Fortunately, my wife is a very healthy cook so we eat a lot of vegetables and rice...very little junk food or meat. My son-in-law is very sedentary and eats unhealthy so I have many of the same concerns as BinCo about his health. He's pushing 275 lbs., my height but 100 lbs. heavier.

BTW, the "sucking in the gut" remark was more about posing than fitness. Back in the '50s and '60s, it was quite common for guys (and gals) to suck in their gut whenever being photographed. I think it was part of the Charles Atlas culture. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif Todays young people, even those who are fit, tend to be more relaxed about posing.

[nakedjohn]

It is the sugar intake making people overweight. Everything nowadays has sugar in it, we do not need all this sugar!!

[johny]

RE: nakedjohn - It is the sugar intake making people overweight.
**************
Not agree.
1)When about 1920 at my State was built three sugar plants, government has an advertisement: You ought be patriotic- eat tea with THREE spoons of sugar, one for each plant. No obese people was much in my country then.
2)My prepepre place of living my neighbourous flat lived a main she-technologist of big candy factory. All her life she has a habit to use a water with just sugar, half to half instead of dinner. Until the pension age she was extremely thin woman.
3)Here at us I remember one radio interview about 1970. We had just built the ultramodern factory style chicken feeding plant be proud them importing a special `growth powder` from USA. Correspondent asked - is this powder safe enough to not cause the growth of humans? Answer was - its just unimaginable. Thus... if average tallness of citizens until BIRTH of 1970 was under 1,80 meter, after it became 1,95 meter, but in the countryside it isnt still so much (them grows chickens themself).
4)About 15 years ago the new technology gloriously came in my country, this time from Denmark. If here the normal life cycle to feed up the beacon until 90 kg demands about 1,5 years, Danish tech allows make a 3,7 shifts each year. Just swine are gorgling so the 3 months and them are adult. I asked to specialists - arent such food additives dangerous to cause the similar effects on human table after consuming such pork? Answer was - sure no. Yet at these last 15 year I can easily observe by naked eye, if at my youth obese people was something relatively rare, now them are near to half, and other half has a permanent hard BATTLE against obesity...

I am more than sure that obesity are caused due excessive use of FOOD ADDITIVES, especially those multiplying growth.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by nakedjohn:
It is the sugar intake making people overweight. Everything nowadays has sugar in it, we do not need all this sugar!!
It isn't any one thing. It is simply taking in more calories than one is burning. People just have very easy access to way too much food and most people aren't saying no thanks when handed some food.

Serving sizes are generally too big at most fast food places and restaurants. I have noticed that some places no longer even have a simple, small burger on the menu. The smallest choice is already real big.

[walter05]

Binco;

Look in the Open Conversation section. There is a discussion on America's growing waistline. There are a lot of helpful ideas there.

As someone who once was very obese, I have to tell you that you can't talk anyone into losing weight. When I was very fat, I knew it. I accepted it.

As someone who has lost all of that weight, and kept it off for years, I have wanted to encourage others. Frequently, overweight friends ask how I did it. Then they are disappointed to find out it was diet and exercise. Even those people are not inspired to make changes.

It hurts and I understand your feelings. However, when someone chooses to put a lot of unhealthy foods in the mouth and not exercise, that person is choosing to be obese. (I know there are rare exceptions, but they are rare.) I know it hurts but you should accept that people have a right to live their lives the way they want.

If you want more information, please PM me and I will be happy to share.

[dan t]

There are a few people like me that don't have to watch all they eat it just dont go any where that I have ever seen, Just one of the lucky ones ?

[kphoger]

There is a human tendency to recolect "the good old days" and think that today it's gotten so much worse.
as an old farmer friend of mine used to say, "the good old days? let me TELL you about the good old days! if you liked getting up at five every morning, walking through horsesh*t, cowsh*t, ...." and then spend another minute or two filling out the list. i chuckle when people tell me they used to pick up hitchhikers, but not anymore because of how much the world has changed. they think people have gotten more violent, but really people have just gotten more scared. boy, prez w bush sure cashed in on that trend, too.....

There are a few people like me that don't have to watch all they eat it just dont go any where that I have ever seen, Just one of the lucky ones ?

i'm one of the lucky ones, too. i can starve myself and lose maybe five pounds, or stuff my face every day and gain maybe five pounds. the problem is that i still should watch what i eat, because a big waistline is not the only health concern out there. overweight people are constantly reminded to watch what they eat, but skinny folks like us can easily forget that greasy and sugary foods are unhealthy. i have a healthy heart type, low-average blood pressure, and i don't get tired quickly, but i have no idea what my cholerestorol level is like. my father being the only man in his family not to have had a heart attack, i still have need for concern.

maybe folks like us should stick OUT our guts when posing for the camera, eh? make us look a little more normal. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/clown.gif

6'2", and i just weighed myself in the bathroom at 117 pounds. they call me "chicken legs" at work.

[Rabid_Clam]

Sugar is one of the most popular ingrediants to many foods. The sweet taste buds are the easiest to please and the ones that will get the greatest positive reaction thus following for gaining the almighty buck.

Cereal is the most explosive focus lately due to so much suger being in the produce and how it affects children.

Nothing will be done unless we buyers do our homework to determine exactly what does have sugar and sweets added to it and then how much is added to get it curtailed.

I can't imagine celery being sugar coated but some day soon I bet that will be a possibility!