God and nudism

[EMO pioneer]

It would seem as though most topics on this site involve strongly beliveing in god. I dont really understand what nudism has to to with god because i have acceptted the fact that God is nothing more than an idea that we thought of a long time ago. but I also strongly belive in being a nudist.

so will someone plz explain to me what god has to do with nudism.

I apologise if this somhow offended anybody.

[RalphVa]

Nudism has nothing to do with God except that some of us believe that God made us naked.

Lots of people bring up the "is it okay to go naked?" question regarding their religion, because most either haven't been taught about nudism at all or have been taught wrongly. So, many harbor feelings of guilt associated with being naked.

I really believe that the book of Thomas likely quoted Jesus correctly in saying that until we can lay our clothes down at our feet and be completely unashamed can we follow Him.

[james m]

I personally believe in god. He made us in his image and we should be proud of ourselves. He made us nude and no clothes were needed. We are born nude and should stay that way.

[jon71]

You don't have to believe in GOD to be a naturist (obviously) but there is zero conflict between GOD and naturism. Certain pastors, congregations, etc. try and create a conflict but it isn't necessary. As for me I do believe in GOD and I know he is cool with nudism.

[Boreas]

I agree with what has been said before. There is no conflict with God and nudism. My belief is that the conflict is between man-nade (yes I mean man) religion and nudism. Religion and "The Church" have been major agents of social control. I believe this is where the conflict comes in.

For the record, I am an active member of a church and recognize that there are many ways to express spirituality and faith. Often that has nothing to do with "The Church".

[DoctorSurferDude]

Originally posted by pioneer:
...i have acceptted the fact that God is nothing more than an idea that we thought of a long time ago. but I also strongly belive in being a nudist.

so will someone plz explain to me what god has to do with nudism.


If God is not a fact, then the lack of God can't be factual either. Ideas are simply ideas, beliefs are beliefs. Some things just can't be proven....therefore exists the word "faith".

To answer your inquiry....God has little to nothing to do with nudism. What does nudism have to do with tabasco sauce? Not much. Different categories.

Maybe there is a link because nudism is somewhat of a liberating and therefore spirit-lifting (aka spiritual) experience. In that sense God is in the same category.

If you "strongly believe in nudism" then you can understand why others would subscribe to a certain philosophy and remain loyal to it despite what others would say against it. People can't convince you to stop believing in nudism, likewise people can't be expected to stop believing in God.

I believe in God, but I try to avoid religious topics in here. I find they get too heated and people start tossing around hateful comments in both directions.

Ooops.....I just answerd to a post with "God" in it...and oops....you just prepetuated the reality http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[tinhfwv]

Originally posted by pioneer:
...i have acceptted the fact that God is nothing more than an idea that we thought of a long time ago.

Since no way has been identified to factually know whether or not there's a God, taking a position either way requires a leap of faith. Belief in God and atheism are flip sides of the same coin; they're both logically unprovable belief systems. When we pick one as our belief system, we're essentially choosing the one that requires the smaller leap of faith for us.

[usmc1]

I suspect the gods of the site will reach out and pluck this topic thread from this category and drop it into the nudity and religion thread where it belongs.

Being a fundamentalist at heart I will take that event as evidence of the existance of those gods and their interest in and ability to tamper in our actions. I will seek to appease them by nude frolic for the remainder of the day.

As to that which we call God. Several excellent points were made. There is no undebatable, scientific way to prove or disprove the existance of that being. People make choices based on their upbringing, exposure to ideas, yearnings for some sort of eternal truth about the human condition and so forth as to what sort of God they shall worship.

Personally, I doubt that even that spit-fire, evil old fraticidal, infanticidal, homicidal, racist, sexist, selfish and insecure old goat of a god from the old testament would care if people went nude or not...not with seas to part, walls to crumble and tribes to destroy.

And surely, that sweet new testament guy that is fretting about fallen sparrows would not have much interest in our nudity, particularly since he didn't set us up with an account at Macys or Men's Warehouse when we were born.

As to the God is/God isn't debate. Ole doc up above summed it up nicely. There is no scientific basis to beleive in that which we call God..only faith. In fact,if one sums up all the scientific data, history and evidence and looked at it rationally one would have to conclude that the PROBABILITY of God is much less than the PROBABILITY that there is no God.

Hence, the human condition. Marooned on a rock hurtling through space and time in an unanswerable quest for meaning, reason and destiny.

So, I suggest that we try to make life as good as we can for ourselves and others, kick evil people in the *** whenever we get the chance, sass authority, and frolic naked as often as we get the chance..cause, I'll tell you what. It's gonna be over in a twinkling!

[Eric6420]

Personnaly, I just think that religion is more a problem than a solution. There is a very good french song about religion by Alain Souchon. The images in the video speack for themselves. The title of the song is difficult to translate but means that after all the chaos and damage that religion brings, after all, there is maybe no god. Look at the video.Et si en plus, il n'y a personne (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay5lnY_Dk1E)

[Baron Lake]

Tinhfwv, you confuse unprovable with unproven. The idea that atheism (the contention that belief in God requires proof) is equivalent to theism (the contention that proof of God is unnecessary) is epistemological nonsense.

Personally, I'm sticking with the Tooth Fairy. Got the quarters to prove She exists.

b.l.

[Al Bundy]

I really believe that the book of Thomas likely quoted Jesus correctly in saying that until we can lay our clothes down at our feet and be completely unashamed can we follow Him.[/QUOTE]

Hi Ralph, can you tell me where to find the verse you mentioned? Thanks!

[tinhfwv]

Originally posted by Baron Lake:
Tinhfwv, you confuse unprovable with unproven. The idea that atheism (the contention that belief in God requires proof) is equivalent to theism (the contention that proof of God is unnecessary) is epistemological nonsense.

Didn't say they were equivalent. But they each take a stand that cannot as yet be factually proven.

[usmc1]

Oh ye of little faith, get thee behind me. I warned you the gods of the forum would be irked and transport this thread from among the tribe of open conversation. Those of us who were left behind have now found you migrated into the land of Nudity & Religion.

Now we have proof of the existance of strange and mysterious gods who can and will pluck topics from among us. I've heard they can actually close a topic! And, gasp, actually remove an entire post!

Oh how to placate their fierce power. How?

Get naked and frolic, I think is the best approach..in lieu of sacrificial virgins.

As to that other "God" is, "God isn't" debate, I don't think that there is any sort of equilibrium between lack of proof that something does exist and lack of proof that something does not exist.

It seems to me that lack of proof or evidence that something exists is prima facie evidence that its probability of existance is all but nil.

One could argue against that by asserting that ancient man did not have evidence of or knowledge of the South Pole, yet it existed.

But, having aserted that, one puts one's self in the position of asserting that if "God" exists his existance is beyond our current capacity to know and that "God" does nothing to provide that evidence.

The answer to that, of course, would be that given the evidence, ancient man could have reasoned out the existance of the South Pole, but humankind; now with vast knowlege, experience, scientific, mathematical and physical data finds utterly no scientifically valid evidence or indicators of the existance that which we call God.

And that lack of evidence points to the a very high probability that there is no God as we understand that word.

[tinhfwv]

Not that long ago, humans couldn’t prove that things like radio waves, atoms, quarks, dwarf stars, x-rays and viruses existed. However, that human inability had no impact at all on whether or not those things actually did exist. Or did it? Could it be that those things actually didn’t exist until humans could prove they did? Fortunately, contemporary humans are much smarter than those prior humans. In fact, we’re so incredibly smart, if contemporary humans can’t prove something exists, then it probably doesn’t. We have indeed come a long way. (The arrogance thing needs a little work though.)

[nacktman]

pioneer in answer to your original premise ... there is no - I repeat NO - relation between Nudism and the misconception of god.

But as you can see the close-minded and low brow one(s) have quickly hijacked the thread to rant on about their misconception.
Even missing the point of the pointed satire posted herein.
Maybe they'll 'get' a more blunt approach as it seems the soft-touch approach is beyond their keen.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by tinhfwv:
Not that long ago, humans couldn’t prove that things like radio waves, atoms, quarks, dwarf stars, x-rays and viruses existed. However, that human inability had no impact at all on whether or not those things actually did exist. Or did it? <span class="ev_code_Red">Could it be that those things actually didn’t exist until humans could prove they did?</span> Fortunately, contemporary humans are much smarter than those prior humans. In fact, we’re so incredibly smart, if contemporary humans can’t prove something exists, then it probably doesn’t. We have indeed come a long way. (The arrogance thing needs a little work though.)

That is precisely the question one should ask. And, surprisingly, string theory might offer the answer that no, nothing exists until it is observed.

[missouriboy]

(The arrogance thing needs a little work though.) Yeah. It manifests itself often. For example, "If I didn't see it myself, or learn about it from the (establishment) press, then it doesn't exist." That's us, all right, isn't it?

[missouriboy]

pioneer, I would agree with you that there's no connection between nudism and God. Any perceived connection would be the invention of a given person, and would therefore apply only to that person, not to you and me, or to anyone else.

[Eric6420]

Hello usmc1,

It must not be easy to be a nudist and an atheist in Texas...

Personnaly, I went to a public catholic school, like all schools were religious in Quebec in that time, most of them catholics.

What I can say is that I consider a lot of the religious teaching that I received as pratically indoctrination and almost child abuse.

A 7 or a 8 years old cannot choose to believe or not in God when he is in an official catholic school. If your parents were catholics and you live in a small town, you have no choice but do your first communion. And as a 8 years old, you cannot not believe in God in the context were I was. I think I was 15 years old when I learned that atheists do exist.

Now religion is almost dead in Quebec, it was a religion of extreme power and the abuse over the general population was so terrible that now, most people here are just sick of it.

When we look at what is happening in Irak or Palestine, it does not take a genius to undestand that religion is a big part of the problem.

If we look at christianity and nudism, you can say that you are a christian and a nudist and see no opposition between the two, but there is a link between religion and body shame. Maybe that link is stronger in the French culture were people know for sure that the church was always against all the pleasures of life, whataver it was eating good food, drinking wine, dance, nudity or sex.

Most men, for what I know, in the sports and gym centers in France still wear a speedo to take their shower. In most publics showers in France, you cannot even take your shower naked. And when the Pope dies, the french media talks about only that event for ten days, and the most important people in the french government must go to the Vatican when the Pope is dead. And the French people pride themselves for being secular, but the catholic culture and taboos remains quite strong. You can say the same thing about homophobia, even though the sitiation is generally a bit better in France than in most of the US.

[Ren]

Hi All ---

I just looked up the Gospel of Thomas, which is easy to find in many translations online. This is saying 37 from what is being called a "scholarly" translation:

"His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample then, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

[Dick Springer]

Dear usmc1:

I trust that you don't mind if I use the follwing quote, which is a good one.

"The most terrifying evil in the world is a sociopath supported by society!"

[Croydon]

Originally posted by pioneer:
It would seem as though most topics on this site involve strongly beliveing in god. I dont really understand what nudism has to to with god because i have acceptted the fact that God is nothing more than an idea that we thought of a long time ago. but I also strongly belive in being a nudist.

so will someone plz explain to me what god has to do with nudism.

I apologise if this somhow offended anybody.
It is called magical thinking, all this "God" thing. I prefer the term collective insanity.

There is a great book on best seller's list called "God is NOT Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens. Great read

I no longer believe in religion or "God". As a kid, I went to church every sunday but as I became older and began to think for myself, I began to question purpose of religion and questioned "God". I came to conclusion that many religious people are hypocrites, pastors are hypocrites and God doesn't exist. The bible is a made up story and it is all horse s**t.

The minute someone starts talking about how they feel closer to "God" when naked, I just roll my eyes and move elsewhere

[Bob S.]

For some people, G*d is ever-present in their lives. He is a factor in everything they do. For them, G*d has everything to do with nudism. For others, G*d is non-existent in their lives. For them, G*d has nothing to do with nudism.

Most of us are in the middle. It all depends on where both religion and nudism fall in a person's life. Sometimes, a person's nudism is almost a religious experience. Other times, nudism is just a pasttime and they are also occasional church goers.

So basically, they can be intertwined for some and completely separate for others.

Bob S.

[Al Bundy]

Thanks Ren, found it. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif



Originally posted by Ren:
Hi All ---

I just looked up the Gospel of Thomas, which is easy to find in many translations online. This is saying 37 from what is being called a "scholarly" translation:

"His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample then, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

[usmc1]

Originally posted by Dick Springer:
Dear usmc1:

I trust that you don't mind if I use the follwing quote, which is a good one.

"The most terrifying evil in the world is a sociopath supported by society!"

Feel free, it's in quotes because it did not originate with me.

[Rabid_Clam]

All this around us, the universe and void beyond was created by God. And there is far more than just this universe within that timeless endless void.

I am not so vane as to try to explain the thinking of God. I cannot even begin to contemplate such a mind never mind the thoughts that come from it. God always was, and will always be. Not so sure about us. But we, by the grace of God, are here.

Religion is theology, an expansion of the word Theory. Other than just recognizing that we in fact are here and there are the elements about us assembled into molecules of substance, and there is life all about this planet we can only theorize there is a higher power that created this all.

I for one truly beleive there is a God. There is another Kingdom beyond this universe and is in another dimension. We call that kingdom Heavan. And by the grace of God I will join others in that place within the kingdom of God.

[MJ_KC]

I doubt if God would have a problem with nudity since the idea that God would be able to see everything anyway would kind of rule out clothing as being a big deal.

This is simply a societal issue and a means of people in a position of authority maintaining what they consider to be control.

[NudeTopher]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RalphVa:

The naked gardener
God's original intent

Isn't professing to know God's intent more then just a bit presumptuous?

[Croydon]

Originally posted by NudeTopher (christopher):
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RalphVa:

The naked gardener
God's original intent

Isn't professing to know God's intent more then just a bit presumptuous?
Not presumptuous at all. I spoke to God this morning. He spoke to me through my rice krispies.

I heard crack, crackle crack and some more crackling but I knew it was God. He was sending me messages through my cereal

[jon71]

Some of us really do talk to GOD, it's called prayer. Listening to the response is more of a challenge but not impossible. Having faith is very real.

[Rabid_Clam]

We talk to God with our every breath. We do so without intention to direct our thoughts to Him but He does know exactly what we are and what we thing all the time, and then so very much more about us. After all, He created us. There is absolutely NO secret in this universe that can be held from God. Nothing.

[Boreas]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
We talk to God with our every breath. We do so without intention to direct our thoughts to Him but He does know exactly what we are and what we thing all the time, and then so very much more about us. After all, He created us. There is absolutely NO secret in this universe that can be held from God. Nothing.

Rabid, that is your belief. Not all believe as you do.

[LamontCranston]

We talk to God with our every breath. We do so without intention to direct our thoughts to Him.. How about you keep your "we" declarations to yourself? You don't speak for me.

[Sauna]

I'm sure God has no problem with nudity. I'm sure He has more problems with what we do to other people etc.

Remember it is not sin what an eye sees, but what brains think is an other story.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Sauna:
I'm sure God has no problem with nudity. I'm sure He has more problems with what we do to other people etc.

Remember it is not sin what an eye sees, but what brains think is an other story.
Correct. There are plenty of people who do bad things to others and they just don't seem to care. I would imagine that nudity is either low on the list of bad things or may in fact be on the good side.

[David77]

Originally posted by Sauna:
Remember it is not sin what an eye sees, but what brains think is another story.

The most important thing is NOT what the brain thinks, but is the BAHAVIOUR of the person.

[Rabid_Clam]

There are those who beleive as I and there are those that don't. Each is most welcome to beleive as they choose. Yet I continue to believe that even those who say they don't beleive as I speak their ways and thoughts that God hears. I cannot speak for God Almighty but He is a forgiving God. He realizes we are humanly prone to error. I truly pray He will take mercy on all regardless of their beliefs in that final meeting where no one knows excatly what or how to beleive exactly what God prefers.

We are only a tiny bit better than animals. We still kill each other over very indefensible reasons among many other transgressions.

Hopefully there is a way to resolve ourselves when that time comes.

[David77]

Rabid,
You anthropomorphize God, only you make him a really very Super man. (A He who has ears to hear all, and eyes to see all and a brain to thoughtfully decide who is deserving of heaven and who will be shut out).
That is your privilege, of course., so I can't criticise much, as this anthropomorphic concept completely satisfies you.

The ancient Greeks made their gods <u>Super Beings</u> who even argued among themselves.

[Boreas]

I agree David.

Rabid, I am an active member of my church and consider myself Christian. I still take offense at you using "we" when you discuss your own personal beliefs. My beliefs are very different from yours I suspect, and some are the same or similar. Others in this board do not believe in god or what you speak at all. Do not presume to think they do not know what they are believing.

It is important that we use some critical thinking with regards to Church teachings. I can no longer accept a lot of what "The Church" teaches since it has been a very oppressive organization.

As for God and nudism, this has been an interesting thread to follow. A lot of good thoughts and ideas!

[pek1]

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but since many of you know the story of my being kicked out of a Christian college for, not only posting here, but posting a nude picture of myself a few years ago.

All of us have some sort of disability . . . physical, mental, psychological, whatever. That is not the point. The point is, when that disability lords over you and you feel you're nothing but a worthless piece of crap, you are naturally going to, somehow, find something to help you feel better about yourself. Right? Even though I am a Christian and the Bible says I am more than a conqueror, I still felt inferior. When I found this website and the freedom of being nude, it only enhanced the relationship I have with my Creator. I can see myself better, which is something the (Christian) Church doesn't exactly want its people to do.</span>

[Rabid_Clam]

pek1. thanks for your excellent post! You have done what I try to influence others to do and that is to find religion within yourself and further develop it.

In fact you have no disability, and those of that school that excused your presence among them do. You did conquor a mountain. Kudos !

I wish you all the peace and prosperiety you can gain. Thanks again!

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:

We are only a tiny bit better than animals. We still kill each other over very indefensible reasons among many other transgressions.

On this point I must disagree. One of man's biggest mistakes is to see himself better than every other life form here. Look deeper! We are only part....a destructive part, but still.

Majority of the animal species do not kill one another. Those that do have a reason! Survival!

Man kill one another over pride....money...and just plain sickness in the head.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
Majority of the animal species do not kill one another. Those that do have a reason! Survival!
Not always true. Cats will sometimes catch and play with an animal before killing it, even when they aren't hungry and won't eat it.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
Majority of the animal species do not kill one another. Those that do have a reason! Survival!
Not always true. Cats will sometimes catch and play with an animal before killing it, even when they aren't hungry and won't eat it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they do have a reason for that behavior, although they do not reason out the process.

The reason actually combine two aspects of cat behavior. One is that cats practice their hunting & prey killing skills constantly, and secondly most are hard-wired to attack prey whether hungry or not.

Once they are stimulated into action, some cats persist in the attack phase, either prolonging the "kill" or continuing the kill after the prey is dead. If one wants a human analogy, it is similar to listening to a song you've heard over-and-over because it "feels" good. The kitty is merely doing something that feels good to it.

Some people, seeing the behavior through human eyes, regard it as cruelty. Not so. Cat's don't make such judgments, and it seems, neither do some humans.

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
Majority of the animal species do not kill one another. Those that do have a reason! Survival!
Not always true. Cats will sometimes catch and play with an animal before killing it, even when they aren't hungry and won't eat it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me refrase that...most animals will not kill a member of it's own species, outside of cats and wolverines.
Cats have been known to kill kittens just so the female will go back into heat sooner, possibly to continue their bloodline, maybe not.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
Let me refrase that...most animals will not kill a member of it's own species, outside of cats and wolverines.
Cats have been known to kill kittens just so the female will go back into heat sooner, possibly to continue their bloodline, maybe not.

Well, true enough if you ignore mating contests that are sometimes fatal even among herbavores. And of course territorial wars are the very common cause of death of lions, wolves, several primate species, and others. Fighting over resources and territory has been around a whole lot longer than humans. And, of course fighting over territory and resources is part of survival, for humans as well as for other species. Only some humans project a negative morality onto it.


Blessings

Bob

[jon71]

During famine many species will practice cannabalism that normally would not.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by jon71:
During famine many species will practice cannabalism that normally would not.
There are also a lot of species that will kill another of their own kind if they feel threatened or their territory is encroached upon and the interloper refuses to leave.

To suggest that only humans are like this is not correct.

[EMO pioneer]

WOW thanks for all your replies! this is my first hot topic http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/beam.gif

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Just goes to show that, we ARE animals.
I believe our only real superiority over animals is we take into consideration our actions, weather we heed them or not is the difference!

[R.M.GREENMAN2]

Originally posted by R.M.GREENMAN2:
Just goes to show that, we ARE animals.
I believe our only real superiority over animals is we take into consideration our actions, weather we heed them or not is the difference!

I was going to say concept of time, but squirrels seem to know when it is time to store more nuts than eat.....birds know when it is time to fly south....ect.

[missouriboy]

Another difference I've heard is that only mankind has foreknowledge of his own death. Not that this is "superior".

"Timekeeping" is truly an invention of man. The thing you speak of with squirrels, etc., is "circadian rythm" which is a natural part of all living things, including plants, and mankind too. The triggering factor is believed to be the changing ratio of daylight/darkness hours.

[hm0504]

Originally posted by missouriboy:
Another difference I've heard is that only mankind has foreknowledge of his own death.
...

I think it may be presumptuous on mankind's part to think that other animals, particularly intelligent ones like primates and whales, do not have some idea about their own mortality. They certainly see their associates die and seem to have a response to threats of death (e.g. predators).

[hm0504]

Apparently Conservapedia, the "encyclopedia you can trust.", doesn't agree that nudism is compatible with the Bible:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Nudism

[Bobx23456]

I found the following about Christian Attire from the Landover Baptist Church,

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/beliefs.html

Enjoy!

Bob





Christianly Attire:
We believe that when a person first gets saved, the first thing they should do is buy a suit and a tie. If the individual is a female, then a dress not raised over an inch above the knee is acceptable. Clothing is perhaps the most important thing about being a Christian. If one is not properly clothed and fully representative of what God would want them to appear like... well then, that person is probably not saved. Our motto is "get saved, get to a Christian Clothing store, and get fitted for the kingdom." A man should dress and act like a man, and a woman should dress and act like a submissive female helpmate. That about sums it up. Anyone who does not conform to the dress code at Landover Baptist will be fined no less than $300.00 a violation. It is a privilege to be a Christian and we believe that it is about time folks started acting like it!

[Boreas]

Wow bob, is that your church? It sounds like a place you would like with subservient women. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Wow bob, is that your church? It sounds like a place you would like with subservient women. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

No, toots, definately not my church. I posted the link because it was relevant to this topic. Perhaps, as a woman, you would be more interested in their articles on "What Would Jesus Wear" by Mrs. Betty Bowers. http://www.bettybowers.com/

Blessings

Bob

[Mertz]

As a native Iowan, I've never heard of Freehold, Iowa. Would like to know where it is so I could be sure to pass it by. Wouldn't want to even come close to people who believe such teachings are the way to eternal life.
Originally posted by Bobx23456:
I found the following about Christian Attire from the Landover Baptist Church,

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/beliefs.html

Enjoy!

Bob



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Christianly Attire:
We believe that when a person first gets saved, the first thing they should do is buy a suit and a tie. If the individual is a female, then a dress not raised over an inch above the knee is acceptable. Clothing is perhaps the most important thing about being a Christian. If one is not properly clothed and fully representative of what God would want them to appear like... well then, that person is probably not saved. Our motto is "get saved, get to a Christian Clothing store, and get fitted for the kingdom." A man should dress and act like a man, and a woman should dress and act like a submissive female helpmate. That about sums it up. Anyone who does not conform to the dress code at Landover Baptist will be fined no less than $300.00 a violation. It is a privilege to be a Christian and we believe that it is about time folks started acting like it!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Mertz:
As a native Iowan, I've never heard of Freehold, Iowa. Would like to know where it is so I could be sure to pass it by. Wouldn't want to even come close to people who believe such teachings are the way to eternal life.

Don't waste a lot of time looking for Freehold, Iowa, Mertz. The "Landover Baptist Church" is a web spoof. You have to read it with a humorous attitude. Have fun. http://www.landoverbaptist.org

Stay naked

Bob

[Vin]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
...Religion is theology, an expansion of the word Theory.

Umm, nope. Forgive me if this has already been addressed, since I've not read the entire thread. According to the Oxford American Dictionary, "theology" ultimately derives from Greek "theos" (god). "Theory" ultimately derives from Greek "theoros" (spectator). Two completely different root words with different etymologies.

Doesn't affect your argument that theology is just an attempt to explain that which we don't currently understand, but it's important to keep the language straight.

[kphoger]

so, back on topic.....

i believe in god, and am fairly mainstream christian in my understanding of him. that's not to say i'm just like your stereotypical bible-thumping neighbor, but he and i would probably get along pretty well anyway.

i don't believe nudism and god are directly related but, when people criticize nudism on moral grounds, i must turn to my religious convictions for an answer; that is, after all, the foundation of my morality. what this usually boils down to is showing not how god and nudism are connected at the hip, but rather how god and nudism are not incompatible.

for example:

1. we are made in the image of god; we should therefore not view our bodies as shameful, dirty, or inappropriate.

2. to say it's a sin to be nude in front of others is not in accordance with the bible, because adam and eve were nude together BEFORE they fell into sin.

3. some people claim nudism invites the temptation to lust, but each person is responsible for his or her own sinful nature: don't try to blame me for your own lust, and i won't try to blame you for my vices.

4. the textile-manic society we have these days is contrary to biblical teaching about vanity. that's not to say it's wrong to wear clothes, makeup, etc., but the obsession we have with appearance is definitely a symptom of vanity; nudism, then, actually helps break the cycle.

as you can see, many nonreligious people have the same things to say about nudism as i do, even though their motivation isn't consciously or directly religous in nature. but i am first and foremost a christian, and everything else looks to my faith for guidance and measure.

[Rabid_Clam]

It is far beyond me to speak for the Almighty. Just can't but I can beleive. I do beleive God cares not a thing about nudity. He created us, every cell in out body, and every atom in our body and every spec of life in our body. There is absolutely noting about our body He did not create. So what is all the hub hub about with God and nudity? We are as He created us clothed or not.

[kphoger]

word

[Cigol Edun]

Originally posted by Baron Lake:
The idea that atheism (the contention that belief in God requires proof) is equivalent to theism (the contention that proof of God is unnecessary) is epistemological nonsense.

Personally, I'm sticking with the Tooth Fairy. Got the quarters to prove She exists.

b.l.

I find your definition of atheism, and your definition of theism (defined as above in terms of contentions each of which are based off of what you apparently believe to be the unavoidable logical consequence of what you think to be the only possible position of all atheists and theists respectively) to be creative, original, and delightfully amusing. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

I would be an atheist by this definition because I too require proof to believe in God. Yet I do in fact believe in God after the fashion of which I would have heretofore considered to be theistic. For the purpose of this discussion, let me define God much more deistically: I would say "God"= ultra-powerful, ultra-intelligent creator(s) of the earth.

Proof according to dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com) is "evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth." Accordingly, I have examined evidence sufficient to produce belief in its truth and to establish a rational basis for it. Although it is possible (maybe likely) you wouldn't interpret the evidence to mean the same thing I do, I'm sure you would still have to rationally concede that my evidence has more logical weight for its motivating support than the quarters from your tooth fairy. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/yes.gif

Of course, I haven't shared any of the evidence at this point. I am willing to, but I'm not sure if there is any interest. It requires a fairly long and involved discussion (for anyone without a scientific background in order to be sure they would have the requisite information to follow the steps of the proof), and on top of that, I judged it to be a bit out of the scope of what I was trying to say here.

[zauberkoenig]

Well, am I not allowed to say that God gave me some 20 square feet of skin to experience and feel and enjoy my life ? - Indeed this was my first feeling ( the theological considerations I had settled before as good as I could)going to the wilderness down the Danube here th "wild nudes" were found - that was 1962 and just ilicit.

OK, that is my personal attitude, but we all are in a clothing madness - occupied environment with police, courts, youth - welfare institutions, who all in the fifties and sixties gave proof o their importance with arguments as "endangerung the healthy development of youth", with myths about some horrible things that could happen if you see ( or just guess) nipples, just doin so as if hou had no gentials (look at Cole of California of the late fourties an the fifties : swimsuits neglecting the crotch; of being socially mocked and humilated if the onepiece slipped down or the bikinitop did not fit optimally - with the cry "Shame on you !!!" - without any religious connection. Fifty years later : Click on "Nipllegate" or "Nippleslip" they`re the rest of the "clothing madness".

No, God does not care; except that he disapproves the humilations and the fears imposed on his creature becuase of rich opportunities he privided for us.

[Cigol Edun]

so will someone plz explain to me what god has to do with nudism.

There is probably little to no connection between topics about God and nudism, other than most people on these forums that believe in God, don't see a contradiction between the two. People on these forums talk about just about anything. I guess this topic might be popular in part because in many ostensibly Christian organizations outside of the naturist community, nudism is heavily frowned upon and sometimes said to be outright sinful, wrong, and incompatible with a Christ-centered life. This forum then provides an opportunity for naturist Christians that don't share those views to rationally expose some of those tired old arguments with some support from like minded believers.

[Kohana_Kioni]

The problem with mainstream christian or other churches is that they veiw Naturism or the nudest as being "Hethenist" like they do natives in their own country... what do missionaries do, get them clothed because they believe they are struting around in nakedness which in again mainstream religious culture is wrong.

These so called mainstream christian churches also teach that fully exploring ones body is wrong to, as well as exploring your partners body and so on. They need to read "The Song of Solomon or Song of Songs" either one is the same as the other. But if fully distribes in detail that sex was given to us for our enjoyment and pleasure.

I have real trouble with mainstreamism christianity church dogma do as we say or get out preaching and teaching.

I'm a naturist and a pannist because it will all pan out in the end.

Be Free

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Kohana_Kioni:
The problem with mainstream christian or other churches is that they veiw Naturism or the nudest as being "Hethenist" like they do natives in their own country... what do missionaries do, get them clothed because they believe they are struting around in nakedness which in again mainstream religious culture is wrong.Be Free

Yep, putting clothing on the natives has been a Christian operating method since the 3rd century when they began moving into pagan Europe.

Blessings
Bob

[emsdude]

In God's eye's he loves us just the way we our.The bible tells us to come to him and his son just the we are.So if you have clothes on or nude at home or on the beach Jesus is the same, just as you our.We will all stand naked before him, we will not need clothes in haven.

[nudebushwalker]

WE all need to keep reminding ourselves that God is a Nudist, too..

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Afterall, (S)He "created us in her/his image..."

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[ The puritans can't have it both ways in their increasingly insane rantings and ravings..].

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[Rabid_Clam]

Over all I cannot speak for the Almighty. That would be the most stupid thing I can do.

Yet I can beleive aspects about the Almighty. Where the Almighty God made each and every one of us, this universe and every atom there in, I cannot beleive He will care one bit if we are nude or not anymore than we care if a dog, horse or animal of any kind had pants on or not.

Only other humans care about clothing outside of protection from the elements.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
Yet I can beleive aspects about the Almighty. Where the Almighty God made each and every one of us, this universe and every atom there in, I cannot beleive He will care one bit if we are nude or not anymore than we care if a dog, horse or animal of any kind had pants on or not.
God might even be a bit put off by the fact that we feel the need to hide his creation.

[Borntobenude]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
Over all I cannot speak for the Almighty. That would be the most stupid thing I can do.

Yet I can beleive aspects about the Almighty. Where the Almighty God made each and every one of us, this universe and every atom there in, I cannot beleive He will care one bit if we are nude or not anymore than we care if a dog, horse or animal of any kind had pants on or not.

Only other humans care about clothing outside of protection from the elements.

Exactly.


“For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than a twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” — Hebrews 4:12-13

God is all-seeing. Nothing is hidden from Him. “My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being imperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them” (Psalms 139:15-16). For people who believe in God, why would they think clothes would make any difference to One Whom all things are naked to? Are they trying to hide from Him as Adam and Eve in the garden after they had sinned? Anyone else see the absurdity in thinking clothes are going to make a difference to someone who sees everything? He isn't interested in outward clothing, he looks at the inside, not the outside. He's interested in the heart. If you believe in God, then you should be concerned with being clothed in righteousness, not textiles (Job 29:14, Psalms 132:9, Isaiah 61:10). People focus on the wrong thing.


Originally posted by MJ_KC:
God might even be a bit put off by the fact that we feel the need to hide his creation.


Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Van Gogh: seeing the names of these familiar artists probably reminds you of the great works of art they created. But no one, no matter how ingenious, can surpass the magnificence of God’s most incredible work of art: The Human Body.

Leonardo da Vinci, after painting the Mona Lisa, didn't put a drape over it. In the first chapter of Genesis it says, “God created humankind in his image, in the image of God created he them; male and female he created them,” and “saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good” (Gen. 1:27, 31, New Revised Standard Version). “And they were both naked […], and were not ashamed” (Gen. 2:25). And as it says in Luke 11:33, “No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.” Jesus the Christ said in Matthew 6:28-29, “Why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.” If you believe in God, and you believe what's said in the Bible, then it doesn't make sense that you'd think that what the Bible said is His creation is shameful and something which needs to be hidden, which goes contrary to the word of God you allegedly follow.


“Be not conformed to this world” (Romans 12:2). “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ” (Colossians 2:8). “For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving…” (1 Timothy 4:4, New International Version).

So are self-proclaimed Christians conforming to society's view that the human body is shameful? The apostle Paul wrote in his first epistle to the Corinthians: “know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you…?” (1. Cor. 6:19); “the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1. Cor. 3:17). He said also to “glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s” (1. Cor. 6:20). Now how could anyone say it glorifies God to be ashamed of His creation? God created humankind in His image and saw what He had made, and it was very good. And in the words of Mark Twain, who I feel said it best, “He pronounced His work ‘good.’ The word covers the whole of it; it puts the seal of his approval upon each detail of it, it praises each detail of it” (emphasis added). “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” (Isaiah 5:20).

Furthermore, Titus 1:15 says, “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.” People who say there's something shameful about the human body, there's nothing shameful about it, the problem lies in their own minds. As the apostle Paul said, “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that estemeeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean” (Romans 14:14). People who say nudity is a temptation to lust do so because it is for THEM, and they project their own shortcomings onto the human body itself and say that the body is a temptation to lust (to EVERYBODY, rather than to THEM, which they should be talking about, since you can't speak to what something is for SOMEONE ELSE) rather than dealing with the problem that lies within THEMSELVES, and not with the body.

Romans 12:2 says, “And be ye not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind […].” 1 Corinthians 2:16 says, “we have the mind of Christ”, and Philippians 2:5 says, “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” Jesus said, “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father […] I and my Father are one. […] the Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:30, 38). How then could it be possible for someone with the mind of Christ to look upon the human body and see anything other than what God saw when He created humankind in His own image and looked upon what He had made and said it was very good? As Michelangelo said: “What spirit is so empty and blind, that it cannot recognize the fact that […] the skin more beautiful than the garment with which it is clothed?” As Jesus the Christ said in Mark 8:18, “Having eyes, see ye not?”

People who claim to be Christians should ponder this and look within themselves and see whether or not they truly are what they say they are. As for me, I unashamed and proud of my Creator’s work.


[I]“… O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.” — Isaiah 64:8

“His work is honorable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.” — Psalms 111:3

“I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.” — Psalms 139:14

“I will praise thee, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvelous works.” — Psalms 9:1

“For thou, Lord, has made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.” — Psalms 92:4

[Rabid_Clam]

I think this last post said it all. Thanks!

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by Rabid_Clam:
I think this last post said it all. Thanks!
I prefer your message. Short and to the point.

[Pete Knight]

Adam and Eve were created in God's image, God forbade the eating of the fruit, Adam and Eve ate the fruit, so God punished them by inflicting them with shame, overcome with shame Adam and Eve covered their bodies and lived with everlasting shame.

From this we can deduce that those with shame are still the subject of God's wrath, whilst those of us who are not ashamed of our bodies have been forgiven by God.

Well that's how I read it!!



<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Here is an interesting idea, in the British census updated every 10 years, the section on religion offers several religions, and an empty box to add a religion not on the list. Should a new religion be added by a certain percentage of the population it will become officially recognised as such and be given all the rights that religions have in the UK, so if all naturists in the UK were to add 'naturism' to the census!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</span>
Pete Knight

I believe in nudism.

[nudebushwalker]

amen.


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[jon71]

I've heard that because of that "Jedi" is close to being officially recognized in England.

[nudebushwalker]

In the Australian census, with the religion question, there was one box at the end for atheists/agnostics, and a separate box and space for 'other' religions and beliefs - apparently in the last census, there were a few down here, also, who listed themselves as Jedi Knights, along with the usual suspects such as Pagans, Zoroastrians, Confuciusts, Taoists, and whatever..

Naturism as the next new religion for the 21st century ?

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