French Couple

[Jackie]

Hi All, I am new to naturism and have some observations. Recently my BF Nick and I went to my French friends house who happen to be nudists.
The whole family swam nude in the pool. So we decided to try it. It was a really nice experience. I may never wear a swimsuit again. Nick said that he actually felt the most naked there. You see my french freinds boys and husband are all uncircumcised. Nick felt it odd to be the only male that was cirsumcised male in the pool.
The eurpoeans don't seem to believe in it. Personally I think the penis is cleaner and looks nicer cut. Nick also agrees. Nick said that he really didn't worry about an erection he was more concerned with his penis shrinking after a swim.
We spent the whole day nude. Are most european men
uncircumcised. All of my boyfriends have been cut.

Jackie

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie:
Are most european men uncircumcised. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes it's quite rare for European men to be circumsized except for those who have it done for religous reasons. Very occasionally males have to have it done for medical reasons but virtually none have it done as a matter of course.

Most Europeans would agree that it seems barbaric to inflict circumcision on new born babies as there are absolutely no proven health benefits (just excuses and anecdotes).

Rik

[Jackie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie:
Are most european men uncircumcised. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes it's quite rare for European men to be circumsized except for those who have it done for religous reasons. Very occasionally males have to have it done for medical reasons but virtually none have it done as a matter of course.

Most Europeans would agree that it seems barbaric to inflict circumcision on new born babies as there are absolutely no proven health benefits (just excuses and anecdotes).

Rik <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks Rik, I really didn't realize this! The thing me and Nick did notice was that while there is probably no medical reason to 'Cut' a penis on a newborn it seems it is always done. While we were swimming the boys "Who had too much Ice Tea" had to pee allot. Instead of going into the house wet they decided to 'water' the bushes. We did notice the youngest having a bit of trouble pulling back his forskin to urinate. Nick said it is much easier if you are cut. Of course all men have a distincitive scar where the foreskin was.
Nick thinks his scar is ugly but really would have it cut than not. Rik are you cut ? Just curious? You don't have to answer if you don't want.

Oh yeah I guess you could pierce your foreskin if you have one. My French friends husband had it pierced at one time but not any more.

Also Nick was just wondering if it is common practice for a Nudist to 'Water' the bushes instead of using the bathroom. Nick thought that it was probably Ok for the young kids but didn't think it proper for grownups! He went in the house to go rather than just gettting out of the pool and using the bushes. What do you think ?
If it was just us Nick would have used the bushes as we sleep nude and use the bathroom toether all of the time. It is quite different when with company.

Jackie

[Rik]

I'm not sure circumcision is a naturist issue but I guess if you can't discuss it openly here then where can you? We've had debates about it before in these forums and opinion is very much divided.

As for me I am not circumcised. It certainly wasn't a conscious decision by my parents, it's just that in Europe routine circumcision has just never been on the agenda except, as I said, for some religious groups. Debates on this forum before have suggested that circumcision is practised widely in the US for hygiene reason with some people suggesting that 40 or 50 years ago it was essential because men just couldn't educate their offspring to clean themselves. It seems to me that vandalising the body of a newborn child is a pretty poor substitute for teaching hygiene. It is also suggested that circumcision helps to prevent penile cancer and one or two people have anecdotes about uncircumcised men getting cancer but as far as I am able to understand there is absolutely no proven link between penile cancer and foreskin. So with the weight of evidence against it, it seems outrageous to us Europeans that it still goes on to the extent it does in the US.

Does it look better? I don't know but if uncircumcised adult men feel it would then at least they have the opportunity to make the decision for themselves (but I have to confess I have never heard of a single person voluntarily having the operation for cosmetic reasons). On the other hand there are many circumcised men who resent the fact that they have been circumcised and there are now treatments available which can, in some cases, create a foreskin from what's left. But it looks a fairly painful and drawn out(literally /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) process.

In younger children the foreskin is very often "too big" and for some kids it can be difficult for them to retract the foreskin for cleaning (I've had 4 boys so I know these things). If they are unable to do it by the time they're about 5 then sometimes medical intervention is necessary and occasionally circumcision is the only answer to avoid the penis getting infected.

As they grow up, and certainly when they become sexually active, the foreskin moves very easily and in many men the urethra is exposed all the time because the penis has grown at a faster rate than the foreskin. Some men however have an oversized foreskin which some may consider unsightly but I don't really think it's that much of a problem - not for naturists anyway.

And peeing in the bushes? Well your friends were French and in France it's not unusual to see men peeing in the street. The French have a completely different attitude to bodily functions from Americans, British and indeed most other European and Scandinavian countries. Vive la difference!

Rik

[Brian]

Hi,

To ad my tuppence worth if I may, I am British, uncut and have alot of skin. I have thought of being cut since getting into Naturism as I felt at times that I was 'the odd one out'. I recently realised that my individuality is special and I have no medical reason for getting it done - so I wont. Also, I have had a few rather nice comments from others who have seen my pic (ladies from the USA) which helped my decision. My son, 4, is uncut also and we have no intention of getting him cut either.

Have fun and stay nude when you can!.

Brian.

[MaxUK]

Hi Jackie,

If I can add my voice, I am an uncut British guy and to be honest I am SO very glad not to have had the snip. This is for two reasons mainly:

1. Without going into too much detail, I could not imagine sex without the sensation of my foreskin moving over the head of my old chap, all nicely lubed up !! This would just not happen if I was circumcised - it would be all dry and nothing would move over anything else. No thank you !!

2. I just think it looks nicer and I don't feel 'robbed' in any way

Also - the argument that a circumcised man is 'cleaner' is clearly flawed - it depends on an individual's personal hygiene and nothing else. I keep myself scrupulously claen and have never had any problems (or complaints !!)

Max

[jeep]

To be frank,there is an atvantage to being cut .I can take a leak without thouching or pulling on it,yes i do go outside in my yard or off the deck .i find it quite natural.the obviouse atvantage to uncut is your end will be protected from sunburn ,also if size is a problem in your thinking the uncut appears to be bigger .this is a funny topic an i respond in laughter.enjoy your it.Jeep

[Jackie]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of you comments and observations. This is a great forum for nudists. I have another obersvation to add to this. I have watched my bf Nick who is cut pee many times. It seems much easier as there is no foresking in the way. By the way after we were all swimming in the pool we got out and went to the bathroom to shower before we got dressed to leave. The shower was huge and had no doors on it. Anyway the toilet is close by. As me and Nick were in the shower my friends husband (While waiting) for us to finish took a leak. He carefully pulled back his skin and urinated in clear view of us.

The skin seems like a problem. Nick does hate the scar left by the process but I do love to have his little helmet on view at all times and no foreskin in the way /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Love Jackie

P.S. I never had an UNCUT man for sex...

[David77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie:

I have watched my bf Nick who is cut pee many times. It seems much easier as there is no foresking in the way.

my friends husband (While waiting) for us to finish took a leak. He carefully pulled back his skin and urinated in clear view of us.

The skin seems like a problem. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, no, the foreskin is no problem!

I may be exposing my ignorance, but I do not see why anyone would have to pull back their foreskin to urinate. I NEVER pulled back my extra long FORESKIN (I am referring to foreskin only) to urinate, and I have never noticed anyone pulling back their foreskin to urinate.

Contrary to what many women believe, men do not look down the row of urinals and see the other men urinating. The protocal is to keep looking straight forward. Invading another man's visual privacy of urinating can be interpreted as perversion. However, some urinals are visually wide open, and there was no awareness of pulling back the foreskin.

If I am wrong about anyone's absolute necessity to pull back the foreskin in order to urinate, I am sure that someone on this board will reply.

[Rik]

Whatever the advantages and disavantages, whether or not individuals are happy with their circumcision, the bottom line is that routine circumcision of infants, except where used to resolve specific medical issues, is a needless mutilation carried out on those who have no say in the matter.

As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik

[Frank R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:

As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There was talk a while back about tattoeing a child Social Security Number on them to avoid any mix ups at the hospital and later on in life to avoid identify fraud. Somewhat like the old SS troops had their blood types tattoed on their arms I guess. I sometimes what the latest bit of nonesense will be to allow the government to keep track of their "subjects" - subjects, not citizens mind you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie:
The skin seems like a problem. Nick does hate the scar left by the process but I do love to have his little helmet on view at all times and no foreskin in the way /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Love Jackie

P.S. I never had an UNCUT man for sex... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think the risks are too high to do it for cosmetic reasons. I've seen a few that were cut wrong and kinda mangled.

As for having sex with an uncut man I highly recommend it. You get the same penetration without all the friction so us women don't get sore like is possible with a cut man, which translates into being able to have sex longer and with less irritation. That extra skin does have more than one purpose. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
Whatever the advantages and disavantages, whether or not individuals are happy with their circumcision, the bottom line is that routine circumcision of infants, except where used to resolve specific medical issues, is a needless mutilation carried out on those who have no say in the matter.

As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I usually use ears as an analogy. People usually use cleanliness as a reason for cutting. My point is that if that is so why not cut off their ears so they don't have to clean them. Alarming thought isn't it?

[nudelatinboyGA]

Chimming in a little late but I have to agree with cindiann and her ears analogy. I'm uncut and parents explained how important it was to clean the penis well while growing up. Never had problems! And Jackie, good thing for your boyfriend that now that you've seen both you prefer his way! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[orienttropic]

so much of a debate about uncut or cut. I myself is cut. I have been to different nude resorts and mingled with mostly europeans who are of course uncut. I think the important thing is proper hygiene.

[Jackie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian:
Hi,

To ad my tuppence worth if I may, I am British, uncut and have alot of skin. I have thought of being cut since getting into Naturism as I felt at times that I was 'the odd one out'. I recently realised that my individuality is special and I have no medical reason for getting it done - so I wont. Also, I have had a few rather nice comments from others who have seen my pic (ladies from the USA) which helped my decision. My son, 4, is uncut also and we have no intention of getting him cut either.

Have fun and stay nude when you can!.

Brian. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Brian,

Thanks for your info. I guess if me and Nick went to a European nude beach he would be the monority with probably the only cut penis on the beach.He too would probably feel out of place. This is such a thing I really never would have thought about if I was not a nudist.

BTW my photo is posted here :
http://www.clothesfree.com/personals/jackie00.jpg
http://www.clothesfree.com/personals/jackie00.jpg

I would like to see a photo of you Brian /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Is one posted here at ClothesFree?
Also my Email is cesllc@hotmail.com if you would like to talk. Wow a whole Nudist Family. I wish I grew up in one /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ... I would love to know what it is like being able to be nude around the whole family. I take it your wife is a nudist too ?

Take Care,

Jackie

[FED]

A recent AAP report stated that circumcision does offer some benefit in preventing urinary tract infections in infants. Circumcision also offers some benefit in preventing penile cancer in adult men. However, this disease is very rare in all men, whether or not they have been circumcised. Circumcision may reduce the risk of sexually transmitted diseases. A man's sexual practices (e.g., if he uses condoms, if he has more than one partner, etc.) has more to do with STD prevention than whether or not he is circumcised.

Study results are mixed about whether circumcision may help reduce the risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners, and whether it helps prevent certain problems with the penis, such as infections and unwanted swelling. Some studies show that keeping the penis clean can help prevent these problems just as well as circumcision. Infections and unwanted swelling are not serious and can usually be easily treated if they do occur.

Reference:http://familydoctor.org/handouts/042.html

[brucereno]

So much talk about such a little piece of skin....amazing.

Jackie...thanks for posting your picture. It's rather rare at INA for anyone to show their faces or their bodies. You look great...keep it up.

As to your boyfriend on European beaches....no one would care or notice or comment about the state of his penis. Cut or not is just not a matter of concern.

Most people I have met on beaches both here and in Europe are much more interested in the person...and their experiences, than in their foreskin...or any other body parts. Keep the body healthy and active, and the bits and pieces are just minor parts.

Stay naked...have fun.

[bendigonudey]

Jackie,

circing was also very popular in Australia from WW2 until the 1980's, but has now totally gone out of fashion, and it is difficult for parents who want to mutilate their baby sons to find a doctor who will do it (WHICH IS A GOOD THING!!).

I'm not cut & have never had any problems or complaints about appearance or functionality.

If beaches in Oz are anything to go by, there is much more variety in genital appearance now due to shaving, tattooing and some spectacular, and apparently uncomfortable looking piercing - I don't think your BF being cut will make him feel "out of it on a European (or Australian)Nude Beach.

[Dinnj]

I'm circumcised, was done in a religious ceremony (Jewish) there is a scar there, and it feels like scar tissue ie less sensitive than uncut skin, as a result it takes me a longer time to "finish" during sex which sounds good on paper (especially to the women I've been with) but isn't always so great for me, the females on this forum will probably jump on ,e for writing this but the truth is sometimes you just wanna get off and go to sleep.

[Hooked]

ok I'm not as savy as some of the other forum members here but I could have sworn I saw yous avatar before with a thread talking about circumcisions that you started?

Sorry if this is an error on my part, I could have sworn though, like a year ago or something. I hope I'm wrong because there is no point in resurrecting old threads and we all know the circ thing has been argued to death on this forum.

[yasmine]

hey jackie,
i've been with men who were uncut (most of them european) and i think sex actually feels better. I probably prefer the appearance of cut men...only because i live in the US and that's what i'm used to seeing.

[fre2bnude]

Well it seems like this little bit of skin is very facinating to so many people and the thread won't ever finish.
I'm a Brit and not cut, I love my foreskin and it causes no problems for me. I always roll mine back to pee because it keeps things a bit cleaner, in fact I keep it rolled back most of the time, it's very slack and pliable so stays behind the head quite easily.
By the way Jackie you look fantastic in your picture, you're brave to put a pic like that on the net.

[Expressive Outburst]

Hey there, I also think your pic is great and that you are brave for putting it up. Also on the topic of the foreskin, I have mine still attatched and wouldnt have it any other way. I cant imagine what it must feel like but I guess we all have our own preferences. Im an artist and have done quite alot of life drawing so have seen only uncut too during those sessions. Im in the UK too.

[fre2bnude]

Originally posted by yasmine:
hey jackie,
i've been with men who were uncut (most of them european) and i think sex actually feels better. I probably prefer the appearance of cut men...only because i live in the US and that's what i'm used to seeing.

OK Yasmin, what is more important, the look of them or the feeling? Just curious really, because I often wonder what women think of the penis, they are after all strange looking bits arn't they, with or without the skin?

[yasmine]

For me, its the feel. I really don't care what it looks like :-)

[Orangexcalibare]

Jackie, regarding anything you or your boyfriend have or dont have regarding physical appearance, I would hope that in a nudist setting you both feel comfortable. Whether he is cut or uncut, pierced or unpierced, tattooed or not, large or small, I would hope he would be able to have fun, in a comfortable setting with the freedom to not have to think or worry about what others would think of him or his body. I hope after this learning on the subject both of you are able to achieve that level of freedom.

[Pete Knight]

I'm rather attached to my foreskin, and I've never had any problems with it, I consider it essential to protect the glans, and I too srub up down there.

I know of several British people who are circumcised, not always for religious reasons either.

I have no need to pull back my foreskin when peeing, but every penis is as different as its proud owner.

I could not imagine life without that bit of skin, I personally consider circumcision to be barbaric, just as much as female circumcision, which is practised in Somalia.

Pete Knight

[fre2bnude]

Originally posted by yasmine:
For me, its the feel. I really don't care what it looks like :-)

Good for you, it's how it works that's the most important. But, does the foreskin make it feel that different, I didn't think it did because it tends to roll back when erect and then it resembles a circimcised penis.

[Logic]

Hello
We couple are in search of good couple.Nice to here u here and love to share with u the naturisam. Our Id is pjpilo@uahoo.com.
With regards
Prince

[Robert King]

Originally posted by Jackie:
Hi All, I am new to naturism and have some observations. Recently my BF Nick and I went to my French friends house who happen to be nudists.
The whole family swam nude in the pool. So we decided to try it. It was a really nice experience. I may never wear a swimsuit again. Nick said that he actually felt the most naked there. You see my french freinds boys and husband are all uncircumcised. Nick felt it odd to be the only male that was cirsumcised male in the pool.
The eurpoeans don't seem to believe in it. Personally I think the penis is cleaner and looks nicer cut. Nick also agrees. Nick said that he really didn't worry about an erection he was more concerned with his penis shrinking after a swim.
We spent the whole day nude. Are most european men
uncircumcised. All of my boyfriends have been cut.

Jackie

[Floriss]

Dear Jackie,
I live in Europea and I am uncircumcised, like most of my friends. I practice soccer andI am nudist from more then 20 years - so that I saw a lot of penises in mi life. Usually, the mens don't pull back the foreskin when they pee but it is much more confortable to do this - with the foreskin on you can not control totally the pee. In the last period on the European beaches, even that the men are uncut, they keep the forskin pulled back. Appear also a lot of methods "how to keep your foreskin rolled.
kisses, Floris

[fre2bnude]

Originally posted by Floriss:
In the last period on the European beaches, even that the men are uncut, they keep the forskin pulled back. Appear also a lot of methods "how to keep your foreskin rolled.
kisses, Floris

Ah, so a lot of others also do this, I thought it was just my preference. I only started leaving it rolled back a few years ago, now it's quite comfortable and I prefer it like that all the time.

[gideon]

Hi, Just a word re urinating in the open, it is quite normal here in France for the men to go outside to urinate, it is water saving measure. When vsiting a French family and men need the 'loo' they go outsie and find a spot in the garden, some men do it before entering the house, the women patiently waiting till they finish.By the way I am English and have adopted the local custom. In addition I am cut although not religous.

[nakedjohn]

Sorry, the urinating thing from gideon is not the norm, do not think all Frenchmen do their bussiness in the open.

[RalphVa]

Hadn't seen this thread before. I've a couple of observations.

I'm partly circumcised. It supposedly happened when I was little, but the doctor obviously didn't take much foreskin. It was still basically in place until I was about 26 when I started doing lots of sex with my wife on trips home from the army. After that, I could easily pull the foreskin back.

When peeing, it's definitely a surer "shot" to direct it if the foreskin is out of the way. The foreskin will sometimes direct it sideways onto ones leg!

Back around 1978ish, there were little tin circles over holes in the pavement on the streets of both Tokyo and Paris for males to step into and let it fly. In later years without these helpful urinals, my wife and I have seen Japanese men stop and let it go against a building, generally at night after they've had a few beers.

I often stop here at the house and pop outside the garage and let it go. In older age, it becomes more difficult to hold it back once you really gotta go. So, I find the quickest way. Another problem in older age, is if you don't go when you have to go that the prostate will constrict and not allow you to empty that full bladder. Once too full, it's dribble a little; dribble; wait; go again; dribble; eventually one will dribble enough to allow the prostate to relax and let you pee more normally. This is why my urologist (a female, no less) told me never to hold it back.

[RichNH]

Some previous comments were made about how in the US it used to be the practice that they always circumsized right after birth. Another aspect of this which I haven't seen mentioned yet is what my mother told me. After I was born (1951, NYC) the nurses at the hospital continually urged my mother to not breast feed me but to use formula instead. This was common practice (from what I understand) back then. It had everything to do with the medical people wanting to be in full control of everything they possibly could be in control of. Mom resisted, but before I could get my act together and figure things out they terrified her enough with tales of me starving that she agreed to the formula.

I think the circumsizition practice might have been part of this same total control mindset.

My son is not circumsized, the midwife gave us the choice but advised against it.

Rich