Steve Gough's UK nude trek

[Bob S.]

"And what makes you think that the public actually want you to change their attitudes?"

Every day, there are groups out there who are trying to change minds. Christian Missionaries go about the world trying to convert others to follow thier Savior. Jahovah's Witnesses go door-to-door to proselytize. Lobbyists try to get politicians to vote for a specific bill that would benefit their own cause. Advertisers create commercials to get viewers to buy their product. Musical artists allow radio stations to play their music to get people to buy their albums. We are bombarded by messages all the time trying to get us to change our behaviours, attitudes, or spending habits.

And no stu, I do not want to emulate Steve Gough. I just support his cause. He is much braver than I am. He wants to be the martyr for the cause of public nudity.

"Gary, think of something you don't like to eat and then tell me, using nothing but pure logic, why you don't like the taste."

stu, it is possible to explain why you don't like someone or something. I do not like some cake because it is too dry. I dislike country music because the singing is too twangy and the fiddles are too errratic. Love is basically a more intense combination of friendship and affection. And as for books or movies, there is a term called "suspension of disbelief" where your mind acts like what you are reading or watching is real.

"The fact that something affects us emotionally does not invalidate that experience."

Agreed, but what should happen as well is an examination of why something effects us the way it does. Over here, it seem that racial slurs against other ethnicities are wrong and offensive, but those slurs used within the certain ethnicity are accepted. Why is that? A man who rapes a 12-year-old girl is seen as a despicable crime and the man is teh lowest of the low of society's criminals. But a woman who rapes a 12-year-old boy is not seen as so terrible, and becomes a punch line for comedians.

Why should the sight of a naked person walking alone, minding his own business, with a white flag no less, cause any consternation of anyone else who happens upon him? For most of them, they saw him for less than a minute. Was any long lasting harm dome to them? Did anyone have to go see a therapist?

Again, I am not advocating that everyone does what Steve Gough did. What many of us are asking is why it should be a punsihable offense.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

Rocket,

"People who are overweight CAN do something about. If one got this way, it is thru neglect and overeating."

That may be your opinion, but does it give you the right to call them eyesores, make fun about how they walk, and basically insult them left and right? Again, I think you are forgetting about the rules of the board, which are at the bottom of the main forums page:

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

You are defaming, being abusive toward, hateful and harrassing toward obese people. Stop it!!!

"I was reading a copy of H&E Nudist Magazine and for their photographs they mostly show trim, in shape women..and men."

I'm sure others here are more knowledgable about H&E, but they do tend to show the more svelte naturists. I don't know if it possible for you to, but try to get a copy of The Naturist Society's "N" magazine. There are many bodies types in there, not just the skinny women.

"I have yet to see anyone at the swims I go who is missing one leg..or has any of the other things you mentioned. I've never seen one yet in a magazine. To my knowledge, this site has never posted one yet."

At White Tail Park in Virginia, there is a man who has some kind of disorder (cerebral palsy? I have no idea) where his legs are extremely thin. He rides around on a specially made bcycle (actually a large tricycle) because when he walks, he walks on the outside of his feet.

And in an edition of AANR's "The Bulletin" there was an article about a young girl from Brazil who was born with stubs for arms. With help from doctors, the Shriners, and Lake Como and Paradise Lakes Nudist Resorts, she was fitted with prosthetics that would be easier to grow with.

Be thankful that you or those whom you have met do not have any severely handicap. No one knows what tomorrow will bring.

Bob S.

Rik,
"I don't like to eat Black Pudding .. I discovered that it was made of blood I found myself imagining bleeding amnimals and abbatoirs everytime it appeared on my plate. As a result I found I didn't have the stomach for it and now whenever I have a "full English breakfast" I always ask them to "hold the black pudding"."

Firstly, black pudding is only partially dried blood. Every time you eat meat it contains a quantity of dried blood cells. Besides - blood is merely a liquid form of animal tissue - and you're not drinking it, you're eating it! So your dislike of black pudding is totally illogical unless you are a vegetarian.

Your dislike of Peter and the Wolf is also illogical. Neither the music itself nor Mr Prokofiev can be blamed for whatever happened to you in your childhood. So you hanging on to this prejudice against a perfectly harmless and pleasant tune is quite illogical. In my case it is possible that my childhood experiences were at least partially responsible for my dislike of nudity - and that is equally illogical.

Likes and dislikes can be due to feelings as much as rational decisions. The origins and associations of our preferences may explain them, but they don't invalidate them, nor do they mean that we must ceaslessly aim to rid ourselves of them.

"I'm not asking you to describe your antipathy towards nuduty in mathematical tems - just in terms that other people can understand."

I have done, Rik. I told you that seeing nudity makes me feel startled, shocked and repulsed. Those are the FEELINGS, and I've told you the possible ORIGINS. What's left? What part haven't I told you?

Bob S.

"Every day, there are groups out there who are trying to change minds. Christian Missionaries go about the world trying to convert others to follow thier Savior. Jahovah's Witnesses go door-to-door to proselytize. Lobbyists try to get politicians to vote for a specific bill that would benefit their own cause. Advertisers create commercials to get viewers to buy their product. Musical artists allow radio stations to play their music to get people to buy their albums. We are bombarded by messages all the time trying to get us to change our behaviours, attitudes, or spending habits."

But Bob, they don't generally do it by causing offence, do they? Quite the opposite, in fact. If they cause offence they'll attract public hostility. Personally, I think that the Christians who come to my door are pretty offensive nuisances bothering me in my own home. The same applies to political campaigners. If I wanted to know about their religion or political ethos I'd contact them. I also take offence at unwarranted advertising by phone or post invading my home, and spam emails etc.

"stu, it is possible to explain why you don't like someone or something. I do not like some cake because it is too dry."

But Bob, I love dry cakes. They remind me of biscuits..mmmm! Lovely with a cup of tea! So if I like cakes that are dry, please explain, using pure logic, why you dislike dry cakes.

"I dislike country music because the singing is too twangy and the fiddles are too errratic."

But it's the twangy and erratic character that makes the music so enjoyable to listen to for millions of fans of country music. Please explain using only pure logic why you don't like twangy and erratic music when so many people obviously adore it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now these are on a par with the sort of analysis that Rik (etc) has been trying to do on mine and others dislike for the sight of music. No matter what answer you come up with, it's all down to feelings, personal tastes, aesthetics, and as such it is entirely subjective!

"..but what should happen as well is an examination of why something effects us the way it does."

Agreed. So why don't you more carefully examine your feelings about country music. That way you'll realise your dislike for it is illogical and you'll be cured - and able to join the millions of others who enjoy "Stand By Your Man" etc. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"A man who rapes a 12-year-old girl is seen as a despicable crime and the man is teh lowest of the low of society's criminals. But a woman who rapes a 12-year-old boy is not seen as so terrible, and becomes a punch line for comedians."

I agree. To me they are equally wicked acts. I suppose it's a cultural thing again in that males are expected to spread their seed far and wide and have as much sex as possible, whereas a female should only allow a carefully chosen and committed man father her child. So a boy having sex with a grown woma might be seen as a kid earning his spurs, whereas a girl having sex with an older man is being defiled in some way.

"Why should the sight of a naked person walking alone, minding his own business, with a white flag no less, cause any consternation of anyone else who happens upon him?"

Again, the reasons are many and varied and at the heart of them are a range of feelings. But the fact is, as I have shown, feelings are real and valid and cannot simply be ignored becauseyou can't rationalise them.

"For most of them, they saw him for less than a minute. Was any long lasting harm dome to them? Did anyone have to go see a therapist?"

Mr Gough shouldn't be causing these feelings to anyone using a public place - not even for a fleeting moment. The fact that he doesn't do serious lasting damage means that his crime is less serious, but he is doing harm and so he should be punished. His crime is comparible to someone standing in a busy street shouting obscenities at the top of their voice. They don't do any lasting harm either, but we don't tolerate it.

One more thing, Bob. You told me that you are not advocating the right to be naked anywhere - just to have a whole lot more places where you can be naked. Mr Gough and his ilk would despise you for that. They want the right to get naked in the local supermarket if they feel like it! I really can't understand why you are supporting this person.

"Again, I am not advocating that everyone does what Steve Gough did. What many of us are asking is why it should be a punsihable offense."

Because he is offending people using public places and that makes them feel uncomfortable or alarmed or upset or angry (especially if they have kids with them). He has no right to do that because those places belong to all of us, not just those few who share his values.

Stu

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rocket:
Rik & Cyndiann,

Those views on nudity are good enough to be the law of the land in countries all over the world... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What views? You didn't quote back anything and I'm not a mind reader. Views on nudity vary quite a bit from one place to another from very open in Germany to very closed in Saudi Arabia.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

People who are overweight CAN do something about. If one got this way, it is thru neglect and overeating.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And you know this because.....
Let's take me as an example. I don't drink sodas, don't eat fast food but very rarely (maybe once a month), steam lots of what I eat, don't use sugar or any form of caffeine and very small amounts of salt. I eat whole grains when I do eat breads and such. I've been that way for years. I don't eat more than most people I know. Even when I worked out at the gym I weighed over 200 pounds. Don't you tell me what I can and can't do about it. Obviously you are clueless about weight but even all that aside you have noright disrespecting people.

Yeah, I can get that surgery where they staple my stomach, well I could if I had insurance but I don't. You need to stop discussing what you don't know about. That surgery kills people sometimes and still people are so desparate to be thin they will put their life on the lines to get there. Why would they do that if it were so easy to lose the weight?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


Cardiovascular disease is the number one killer..obesity leads to things like diabetes..heart attacks..and more..

And there's the social stigma..and a heavy price to pay. As a woman, one is looked at as asexual..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Right! That is why I have so many people who like the way I look and men who are turned on by my looks. Your narrow window of what is beautiful in your eyes only confirms that you don't have much life experience. BTW I just had my cholesterol tested and it was within normal range.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


BTW...I have yet to see anyone at the swims I go who is missing one leg..or has any of the other things you mentioned. I've never seen one yet in a magazine. To my knowledge, this site has never posted one yet. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One of my former boyfriends that you think I can't attract was missing a leg and we have many women at my club with mastectomies. Get out in life and experience it. Perhaps the swims you go to aren't handicap accessible. Too bad.

[Outlaw]

Big Mac here?

I would like to address the ?Black Pudding? idea that was brought up earlier. Most people have never heard of Black Pudding and even fewer have even eaten it at least in the states. Rik has said he won?t eat it because of his thoughts regarding its contents. I contend it is an illogical rationalization because I?m sure he has probably eaten every ingredient in the pudding at one time or another.

I also contend that the majority of the public has either encountered nudity in one place or another or has some thoughts about it in the back of their mind. Therefore the sight of a naked person where one does not expect to see one is not a traumatic experience, just an unexpected one. I?m sure the surprised person in most cases will, in a few moments, will recover without any long lasting effects. Which more than likely explains why more people didn?t complain about Steve Gough walking the streets naked.

A few weeks ago I was watching a program on E!, the entertainment channel, and they were doing an interview with a cast member from ?Naked Boys Singing.? It was filmed, I believe, in New York City. The interview took place in the streets and stores of the city and the male cast member was totally nude the entire time. I don?t remember seeing any background people paying any attention at all.

Big Mac
----------------------------------------
To be naked at all times is to adhere to God?s plan.

[Rocket]

Cyndian,

Regarding overweight people, it being publicized all over that this generation is much fatter than previous ones. Reason?

Less exercise..eating fast foods..etc..basically lifestyle...

People aren't born fat anymore than anything else..

Towards being overweight and attractive..it simply doesn't fit the mold. Take a look at popular magazines....take a look a PlayBoy. I guarantee next months PlayMate won't be overweight. I can pretty much safely say my "dream guy" isn't going to stand 5'4" and weigh 270lbs and neither will other women as well for the most part.

BobS,

I am not attacking overweight people. I am stating FACT. When someone is so heavy they literally have to balance back like they are carrying a large load of groceries, they have a problem. And yes..I'm sorry..but they aren't pretty to look at..

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Your narrow window of what is beautiful in your eyes only confirms that you don't have much life experience <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cyndiann,

This person 'Rocket' must be pulling our legs. Stu disagrees with us on a lot of things, but remains respectful, and tries to explain himself in a thoughtful manner. 'Rocket' appeals directly to bigotry - against the old, disabled, fat, unnattractive, and gay, and I'm sure some new bigotry will be next. Maybe race?

It's got to be a put-on job.

While it is our legs being pulled, I suspect the intention is to smear Stu by association. I for one don't want that kind of 'help'. Stu hasn't fallen for it yet, and I doubt he is likely to embrace an ally who uses bigotry.

If 'Rocket' isn't pretending to be an all around bigot ... well that's even sadder.

Cyndiann, I appreciate your responses to what 'Rocket' has written. They are usually what I wanted to say, only better expressed. But I think we are being trolled.

This may be a job for the moderators.

-Mark

[Bob S.]

"This may be a job for the moderators."

Mark I believe you are right about Rocket on this. She is not being very nide, to say the least. And now to her:

"this generation is much fatter than previous ones. Reason?"

Hmm, ever since the dieting craze started, people started getting fat at epidemic rates. You seem to be guessing about the reasons based on media reports.

"Towards being overweight and attractive..it simply doesn't fit the mold."

Not in today's media. But look back at some of the art of the masters. Many women depicted in the paintings were heavier. The media's ideal body shape has caused many girls to become anorexic as they try to fit into that mold. In most countries, the US included, the media's ideal body isn't even consistent with who most of the people fall in love with. We prefer mates with more meat on their bones.

"I guarantee next months PlayMate won't be overweight."

That's Hugh Hefner. Ever since Twiggy, the models have been getting thinner.

"I am not attacking overweight people. I am stating FACT."

Not the majority of your OPINIONS regarding overweight people. If they are fact, please back it up with actual evidence.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

"But Bob, they don't generally do it by causing offence, do they? "

Steve Gough's point in making his nude trek was that people shouldn't be offended by a naked body. In fact, I wonder if that was one of the points of his carrying around the white flag? And though I agree with his cause and support his cause, I still also think every avenue should be used.

"No matter what answer you come up with, it's all down to feelings, personal tastes, aesthetics, and as such it is entirely subjective!"

But my dislike of something does not make it necessarily bad, except for country music. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And the whole of society does not specifically understand nudism nor why they dislike it. In fact, as I stated before, they are more surprised about seeing a naked body outside of the normal places than anything else. And that surprise, combined with them knowing that it is illegal is what gets their goat.

"I really can't understand why you are supporting this person."

Because he is going for something more than I want. And if he is successful, I will get what I want. It's going to take more than just wanting to get certain beaches designated as nude use to actually be successful. It's going to take a larger change to get that.

"Because he is offending people using public places and that makes them feel uncomfortable or alarmed or upset or angry (especially if they have kids with them)."

stu, you have already said previously that no one knows how many people reacted negatively to him. If he only offended the one person in each place who called the police, and everyone else was neutral with him, does that mean that those who called the police have the right to trump everyone else? You have told someone else not to use who he offended or may have offended, so follow your own advice.

Bob S.

[Rocket]

Bob S,

No problem..

BMI is defined as weight x 705 divided by height squared. Anything over 30 is obese.

Reason include:

*overeating during childhood promotes adult obesity by creating more fat cells.

*obese people are more fuel effecient and effective "fat storers" because they have more fat cells. Without getting technical..they can eat the same or less and still gain weight.

*genetics only account for 5% of obese people.

SOURCE: Human Anatomy and Physiology 6th Edition pages 980-981

BTW...the readers of PlayBoy Magazine do decide the type of figure to go in the magazine.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by naturistmark1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Your narrow window of what is beautiful in your eyes only confirms that you don't have much life experience <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cyndiann,

This person 'Rocket' must be pulling our legs. Stu disagrees with us on a lot of things, but remains respectful, and tries to explain himself in a thoughtful manner. 'Rocket' appeals directly to bigotry - against the old, disabled, fat, unnattractive, and gay, and I'm sure some new bigotry will be next. Maybe race?

It's got to be a put-on job.

While it is our legs being pulled, I suspect the intention is to smear Stu by association. I for one don't want that kind of 'help'. Stu hasn't fallen for it yet, and I doubt he is likely to embrace an ally who uses bigotry.

If 'Rocket' isn't pretending to be an all around bigot ... well that's even sadder.

Cyndiann, I appreciate your responses to what 'Rocket' has written. They are usually what I wanted to say, only better expressed. But I think we are being trolled.

This may be a job for the moderators.

-Mark <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mark I think I have to agree with you on this. Obviously Rocket is a troll or totally clueless. No sense wasting good posts on such a person.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
Firstly, black pudding is only partially dried blood. Every time you eat meat it contains a quantity of dried blood cells. Besides - blood is merely a liquid form of animal tissue - and you're not drinking it, you're eating it! So your dislike of black pudding is totally illogical unless you are a vegetarian. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But you see Stu, I made the efort to explain my reasons for not liking black pudding. Sure it's an emotional response but you now know a tad more than "I just don't like it". You know what goes through my mind when I encounter it and with that knowledge you've been able to make me look again at the whole issue.

I now realise that my dislike of black pudding is irrational for, as you rightly say, I eat blood whenever I eat meat so you've now got me thinking. Even though a dislike of black pudding is fairly widespread in the UK (at least with the people I've ever discussed it with) perhaps I'll give it another try. I think you may have helped me here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Your dislike of Peter and the Wolf is also illogical. Neither the music itself nor Mr Prokofiev can be blamed for whatever happened to you in your childhood. So you hanging on to this prejudice against a perfectly harmless and pleasant tune is quite illogical. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're right again. Now I understand that, the next time I hear this piece of music I'll be thinking of you're analysis of my emotion. Perhaps it'll help me overcome my dislike of it. I'll certainly keep an open mind about it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In my case it is possible that my childhood experiences were at least partially responsible for my dislike of nudity - and that is equally illogical. I told you that seeing nudity makes me feel startled, shocked and repulsed. Those are the FEELINGS, and I've told you the possible ORIGINS. What's left? What part haven't I told you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The adjectives you use are generic adgectives which are largely overused and open to interpretation. In any case they describe the effect without any attempt to identify the cause. Obviously we know that in your particular case the impact is significant and we perhaps understand a little about the cause but the thrust of this thread is about the impact of nudity on the general public. You claim that most people are also shocked and offended, that they think like you but perhaps less agressively so, but it's very unlikely that most people had the same childhood experiences as you so it looks to me like you're suggesting the childhood stuff because it's convenient rather than true.

Rik

Rik,

Now I hope you are enjoying eating black pudding and listening to Peter and the Wolf whilst reading this. Now that I've cured yo of your irrational dislike for those things. Hmm. I might start my own business as a therapist.

"You claim that most people are also shocked and offended, that they think like you but perhaps less agressively so, but it's very unlikely that most people had the same childhood experiences as you so it looks to me like you're suggesting the childhood stuff because it's convenient rather than true".

In my case, the ambiguity of my private parts meant that they were the subject of much prodding, poking, squeezing and other examination by medics with cold hands and who the went away to discuss them as though they were some kind of highly unusual fruits. They were also partially the cause of people - myself included - not being entirely sure whether I should be called Stu or Sue - and some people, medical people as well as family members - believed I should have been assigned as the latter! I wasn't very fond of those parts on my anatomy until I started having 3-weekly injections and suddenly they started to grow and grow and I began to look like other boys. Just for one moment try to imagine growing up with those experiences. Becoming a man is hard enough for any boy without having that to contend with!! Now I'm not saying that my childhood experiences caused my dislike (or phobia) of nudity. It may be linked but I don't think you can automatically assume it was the whole reason for it. What else it could be I have absolutely no idea, but I do know that I'm not particularly unusual when it comes to not wanting to see nudity tolerated in public places. I suppose I could go to a therapist and find out why I feel that way, but I really couldn't care less so what's the point? Similarly, I can't say why other people feel as I do in being repulsed by public nudity - maybe it's as a result of a religious upbringing, or maybe it's an aesthetric thing (after all, genitals are grotesquely ugly parts of the body).

Stu

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
I suppose I could go to a therapist and find out why I feel that way, but I really couldn't care less so what's the point? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey Stu, you might have cured me of my black pudding phobia and my life will be more fulfilled as a result. So perhaps I can return the compliment. Now lie down on this couch.....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Similarly, I can't say why other people feel as I do in being repulsed by public nudity - maybe it's as a result of a religious upbringing, or maybe it's an aesthetric thing (after all, genitals are grotesquely ugly parts of the body). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Religious upbringing I can accept as much of society's value system is based on religion. But actually most people in the UK aren't religious and many people would go as far as to call themselves atheist so if religious upbringing is at the bottom of people's dislike of nudity then that must be challengable in the same way as other values, also steeped in religion, have been challenged and changed over the years such as acceptance of homosexuality, single parent families, children born outside of marriage, "living in sin" and so on.

But genitals being 'grotesquely ugly'? This I find quite difficult to accept. Are they any more ugly than, say, feet (you should see mine!) or elbows or surgery scars all of which may be ugly but none of which, apparently, are offensive. My personal view, however, is that genitals are far from ugly and are as attractive as any other part of the body.

Rik

[Bob S.]

Rocket, BMI doesn't differentiate between muscle weight and fat weight. I once heard that using the BMI, Michael Jordan was overweight and Shaquille O'Neill was obese. I'm sure body-builders are all considered obese. Remember that muscle weighs more than fat. And just as an addition to the equation, the weight is in pounds and height is in inches.

Now, all of your reasons may be valid for why someone is overweight, but it does not explain how they are eyesores or any of the other insulting adjectives you levied on them.

stu,

"Similarly, I can't say why other people feel as I do in being repulsed by public nudity - maybe it's as a result of a religious upbringing"

I'm sure there are a few other people like you who are repulsed by public nudity, but not the vast majority, in my opinion. Repulsion is an extreme emotional response. Again, my theory is that it is a combination of surprise and realization that they feel they just witnessed someone doing something illegal. The adrenaline rush they feel is due to the unexpectedness of the sight.

"or maybe it's an aesthetric thing (after all, genitals are grotesquely ugly parts of the body)."

My penis looks fine to me. And if they were so "grotesquely ugly" wouldn't that put a damper on sex? Imagine that a loving couple is on their honeymoon, very frisky and decide one night to consummate their marriage. The newlywed couple engages in foreplay by undressing each other. Suddenly, they uncover their horrendous genitalia. "Oh my.." the groom places his hands over his mouth and rushes to the bathroom, kneels down, and gives his offering to the porceline god. The bride, meanwhile, is screaming in horror as she throws her clothes on and dahses out the door.

Or is it that love is truly blind? The genitals are just another part of the body, like it or not, stu.

Bob S.

[Rik]

Stu,

As a postscript to the black pudding issue, I went to a restaurant last night and by sheer coincidence the menu included 'Crispy Bacon and Black Pudding Salad'. First of all I just ignored it and looked at the other menu items but my eye kept getting drawn back to it. Could I dare to order it? I dithered for a while but then I remembered that you'd demonstrated that my dislike was entirely irrational so I thought "OK, let's go for it". So I did.

By the time it arrived at my table I was having second thoughts but then I thought "I can't let Stu down" so I started eating it. And you know what? It was good.

I then realised what I'd been missing all these years. To be honest my dislike of black pudding had never really been a problem: I just happily ignored it, lived my life without it. My friends and family knew I disliked it and never tried to shove it in my face - they often told me they didn't like it either but I guess they were just humouring me. But all that's changed now. I feel quite proud that I've overcome an irrational distaste of black pudding.

I could have had it for breakfast this morning as I'm currently staying in a farmhouse B&B in the far north of England but you can have too much of a good thing can't you? Maybe tomorrow!

So Stu, I owe you one for helping me out. Now, what can I do for you?

Rik

Bob,

"Again, my theory is that it is a combination of surprise and realization that they feel they just witnessed someone doing something illegal. The adrenaline rush they feel is due to the unexpectedness of the sight."

Interesting theory, Bob, but if that was all it was about then why do non-naturists usually avoid naturist beaches? Why are there so many laws across the globe instituted not just by national governments, but by regional authorities, local assemblies and town and city councils, against public nudity? Why do the police forces across the world usually arrest people for being naked in public even where they know there is no specific offence of public nudity? We see people committing offences all the time - throwing down litter, speeding, illegal parking etc, but the reaction to the sight of public nudity is much greater.

"My penis looks fine to me".

Ewww!

"And if they were so "grotesquely ugly" wouldn't that put a damper on sex?"

Er...no. You don't see genitals when you are having sex because you're covered up and it's in pitch darkness. Are you saying you have sex nude and with the lights on? Yuk!

"Imagine that a loving couple is on their honeymoon, very frisky and decide one night to consummate their marriage. The newlywed couple engages in foreplay by undressing each other. Suddenly, they uncover their horrendous genitalia. "Oh my.." the groom places his hands over his mouth and rushes to the bathroom, kneels down, and gives his offering to the porceline god. The bride, meanwhile, is screaming in horror as she throws her clothes on and dahses out the door."

I don't even want to go there, Bob.

"Or is it that love is truly blind? The genitals are just another part of the body, like it or not, stu."

No they're not. They are RUDE, Bob!

Rik

Well done, Rik! May you and black pudding live happy and contented lives togeher from now on.

Now I can go to my grave in the knowledge that my existence on this planet has not been entirely meaningless. That reward is enough for me.

Stu

[Soleil Nu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
You don't see genitals when you are having sex because you're covered up and it's in pitch darkness. Are you saying you have sex nude and with the lights on? Yuk! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Stu, you're joking, right ?

I don't know where you've been lately, but on my planet, 95% of the population are having sex naked, on top of the covers (or at least end up on top of them) and usualy with enough light to see perfectly each others bodies...

But I'm sure you were joking... I'm sure of it...

"But I'm sure you were joking... I'm sure of it... "

Are you REALLY REALLY sure?

I wouldn't bet on it if I were you.

Each to their own, eh?

Stu

That means you've never had sex till it gets dark out? No "afternoon delight"?? No sex outdoors under a shadetree in the morning? No fooling around in the hottub in the back yard?

You miss out on so much by not facing you phobias. I don't think you are even aware of how much.

[Bob S.]

OK, the fake Dr. Bob talks from his seat next to the big, comfy couch. stu, you had a childhood where talk and prodding of your genitalia were frequent, and apparenlty, unpleasant. This led to your dislike of the genitalia and finding that they were now ugly. It got to the point that you didn't even want to see your own genitalia, even during showering.

You were fine with it and over time, that idea built inside of you up to the point that you felt that way about everyone's genitalia (note how I keep using that word). Suddenly, all those years ago (amazing how I can remember all of your messages) you encountered a naked woman while with your friends at what you thought was a regular beach. Your thought that all genitalia was ugly overwhelmed you and you went pale.

Now, you recall that experience as how you would react when seeing any other naked woman and you are afraid that you will lose control again.

Session ended. My bill is in the mail.

"why do non-naturists usually avoid naturist beaches?"

For that very reaction that I described. Also because a lot of non-nudists do not understand what naturism is really about. They fear what they will encounter, like perverts, open sexual activity, perfect bodies, etc.

"Why are there so many laws across the globe instituted not just by national governments, but by regional authorities, local assemblies and town and city councils, against public nudity?"

Because the two most populous religions in the world are now both either anti or non-nudist in practice. And in most countries, the religious leaders are in control. Others may feel that the way to control their populations is to take away fredoms.

"Why do the police forces across the world usually arrest people for being naked in public even where they know there is no specific offence of public nudity?"

See my above response.

"We see people committing offences all the time - throwing down litter, speeding, illegal parking etc, but the reaction to the sight of public nudity is much greater."

Because we encounter speeders, litterers, illegal parkers, etc more often. People who live in war zones become accustomed to hearing gunshots, seeing dead bodies on the streets, and having to run for their lives to cross the street, mind you, it will cause them much more stress, but survivalist conditions are stressful.

Bob S.