Sex in public places ?

[RT]

RT putting his quarter in this time.

It was very hot here in Sydney yesterday, 40c in some areas, I work part time at an ISP on their help line, it pays the bills and puts me through university, anyway,yesterday I was going to finish my Chrissy shopping but decided it was way to hot to go so I decided to go to the beach (Cobblers) for a swim alone.

When I got there it was a bit packed but I found a spot to put down my towel undressed and went for a swim. I couldn't see anyone I knew where my towel was so I after my swim I went for a walk to see if I could find anyone I knew, what I found was two guys doing stuff that I believe should be done in the privacy of their bedroom.

I don't have anything against gay people I respect their lifestyle but some stuff should be done in private, I wouldn't have sex on Cobblers beach if I had a girlfriend, I would wait until I got back home and did it in private.

Why is it that people feel the need to have sex on public nude beaches. It spoils it for everyone.

RT

[RT]

RT putting his quarter in this time.

It was very hot here in Sydney yesterday, 40c in some areas, I work part time at an ISP on their help line, it pays the bills and puts me through university, anyway,yesterday I was going to finish my Chrissy shopping but decided it was way to hot to go so I decided to go to the beach (Cobblers) for a swim alone.

When I got there it was a bit packed but I found a spot to put down my towel undressed and went for a swim. I couldn't see anyone I knew where my towel was so I after my swim I went for a walk to see if I could find anyone I knew, what I found was two guys doing stuff that I believe should be done in the privacy of their bedroom.

I don't have anything against gay people I respect their lifestyle but some stuff should be done in private, I wouldn't have sex on Cobblers beach if I had a girlfriend, I would wait until I got back home and did it in private.

Why is it that people feel the need to have sex on public nude beaches. It spoils it for everyone.

RT

[Rik]

RT

I sense an interesting debate starting here. You've probably been reading the discussion with Stu who, as a confirmed non-nudist, would believe that simple nudity spoils a beach for the majority and there are many naturists who believe that sex on a naturist beach (gay or otherwise) spoils it for the majority of naturists. Yet I guess that those who indulge in public sex take the view that there is nothing wrong in what they do. On the face of it our intolerance of people doing natural things on a beach is as bad as the intolerance of non-nudists against our nudist philosophies. And lets not argue about whether gay sex is natural or not as that's not a naturist issue.

So being tolerant people why do we object so strongly to the sort of behaviour you witnessed? I don't think it's enough to say "some things should be done in private" or "I find it uncomfortable to see such things".

In my view it's more to do with protecting the image of naturism. There are still many people out there who assume that nudity equals sex and we are often at great pains to assure the doubters that naturism is not a natural setting for sexual activity nor is it the "perfect cover for paedophiles" as suggested in another thread. Naturally when we witness something that threatens our image then we get upset by it.

So I agree with you. I too find would find such a thing distasteful but not so much because it's something which should be done in private but because it damages naturism.

Rik

[Stewey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yet I guess that those who indulge in public sex take the view that there is nothing wrong in what they do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not so sure I agree with that. I think that people who indulge in public sex (especially at a nude beach) know that they shouldn't be doing it, & know that it is wrong, but do it anyway because they are selfish and immature, out for a cheap thrill, and have absolutely no respect for others. And I've been to enough nude beaches to know that members of the gay population aren't the only guilty parties for this.

[dbickin]

I'm only seen sex on a nude beach once, and it was a man and woman.

I didn't know what to think. On the one hand, a reputation for public sex is what kills most nude beaches.

But in this case, they were being more or less discreet. Quiet, and you could only tell what was going on because there wasn't much else he could be doing with his pelvis moving like that. Except for her legs wrapped around him, she was hidden from view.

The only thing that seemed really seedy was that one guy got up, and sat right next to them to get a better look.

When the gawker was noticed, the man didn't stop what he was doing, just sort of looked over and seemed to look as if he decided it didn't matter that someone was there, and continued his lovemaking.

I did nothing to stop them, but it was enough to make me more or less avoid the beach. The trail to the beach was so steep that I would have to stop repeatedly to catch my breath. And why go through all that, if I have my questions about what I might see when I was there.

At any rate, it isn't JUST a gay thing, and I don't think in this case they were childish and trying to impishly upset things.

I think they got caught up in the moment, and would, other than worrying about the "consequences" be more or less inclined to let them have at it. Though I wouldn't want to watch them.

David

[RT]

RT here again

I just want to put something right, I don't have a problem with gay people, as I said in my post I respect their lifestyle as I respect straight people.

That was my first experience of people having sex on a public nude beach and it just didn't feel right if it was straight sex I waould have felt the same way.

My apologies if I offended any gay people in the forum, it was not intended.

RT

[CAPE COD NUDISTS]

While I agree with everyone so far that public sex is wrong. That's why the "textle" world is so opposed to nude beaches. Thet get the impression that being nude is sexual. When sex happens in public, no matter who is participating in the act, they are sending that message that nudity = sex. While "nudists" or "naturalists" know that being nude is not at all about sex but about freedom.
I've seen sex in public places probable 100 times. Only two of them have been on a nude beach / resort. In those two cases the other individuals at the beach / resort advised the couple to take it to their room.
Some people actually "get off" on having sex in public. They enjoy being watched.

There is always that small percentage of people, whether straight or gay, that will ruin it for the majority. When I say the majority in this case I refer to the true nudist who does not have to have sex in public places like the nude beach.

Hope everyone has great and safe Thanksgiving!!

HAVE A GREAT NUDE DAY!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
RT

I sense an interesting debate starting here. You've probably been reading the discussion with Stu who, as a confirmed non-nudist, would believe that simple nudity spoils a beach for the majority and there are many naturists who believe that sex on a naturist beach (gay or otherwise) spoils it for the majority of naturists. Yet I guess that those who indulge in public sex take the view that there is nothing wrong in what they do. On the face of it our intolerance of people doing natural things on a beach is as bad as the intolerance of non-nudists against our nudist philosophies. And lets not argue about whether gay sex is natural or not as that's not a naturist issue.

So being tolerant people why do we object so strongly to the sort of behaviour you witnessed? I don't think it's enough to say "some things should be done in private" or "I find it uncomfortable to see such things".

In my view it's more to do with protecting the image of naturism. There are still many people out there who assume that nudity equals sex and we are often at great pains to assure the doubters that naturism is not a natural setting for sexual activity nor is it the "perfect cover for paedophiles" as suggested in another thread. Naturally when we witness something that threatens our image then we get upset by it.

So I agree with you. I too find would find such a thing distasteful but not so much because it's something which should be done in private but because it damages naturism.

Rik <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wow Rik, I'm liking you more and more each day. Not many people would admit that viewing sex isn't harmful. Just as nudity isn't harmful to see, sex isn't either. We just have to take this one step at a time is all. Maybe topfreedom first, then total nudity, then beaches where people can actually have sex. It won't be for everyone but then nudism isn't either.

Claims that it would harm children are just guesses. Years ago people lived in real small houses, sometimes with the kids right in the bed or at the least real close by and it didn't stop people from having sex (and LOTS of kids). Kids frequently grew up with farm animals around and were used to seeing them procreating. They knew where eggs came from and watched the family goat give birth too.

Compare this to now where the fundamentalists homeschool their own kids, protecting them from things like nude art and any outside influence that might cause them to think independently. Even Stu had told us how he teaches his kids to lock bathroom doors and how nobody ever sees anyone in a state of undress right in their own home, using negative terms to describe the nude body.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dbickin:
I'm only seen sex on a nude beach once, and it was a man and woman.

I did nothing to stop them, but it was enough to make me more or less avoid the beach. The trail to the beach was so steep that I would have to stop repeatedly to catch my breath. And why go through all that, if I have my questions about what I might see when I was there.

David <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>By doing nothing and not going back you gave the beach to them. What I would have done is approached them and told them to stop. Usually they do, especially if you have a camera in your hands.

It isn't that I mind sex on a beach. What I mind is sex on a nudist beach because people don't understand nudity much less sex outside with people around.

Don't let anyone run you off of a beach. It isn't just you it effects but all nudists in the long run.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Wow Rik, I'm liking you more and more each day. Not many people would admit that viewing sex isn't harmful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's just make this crystal clear before anyone misinterprets your comment. Viewing sex is not harmful to anyone. It may be culturally unacceptable and it's certainly not wanted at naturist venues but it's not harmful.

I've edited the next paragraph in later as an afterthought.

On second thoughts I think there may be a few circumstances where the simple viewing of sex may be harmful such as where a child were to see one parent having sex with a complete stranger, but to allow such a thing to happen would amount to child abuse.

BUT viewing sex which is packaged as pornography may be harmful to some vulnerable people.

The difference is sex is a natural human function but pornography uses ideas and images which give a distorted view of the real world. A Martian (or indeed a human) trying to learn about human sexuality by viewing porn may well conclude that every encounter between males and females results in the female dropping to her knees and whipping the guy's penis out or that any two or three women in a room together must be lesbians. Pornography degrades sex and is fundamentally more about commercialism and manipulation than eroticism.

And what do you mean by "I'm liking you more and more each day."??? I must be doing something wrong. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rik

[nudeboots]

I personally love sex on a beach, or better yet on a beach in front of a big fire, but on an isolated beach only reachable by boat or a hard climb. Sex in public is just rude, and has everything to do with exibitionism and nothing to do with nudism. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[David77]

Years ago, the famous anthropologist, Margaret Mead studied the Samoan (primitive) culture of the South Pacific and in her books she reported that the children routinely saw the adults in their group copulating. Therefore when the young children played like they were adults (the equivalent of children in our culture "playing house") they included imitation of adults copulating.
Margaret Mead did not find that any of these factors were harmful to the child's development.

It is my opinion that since these children were accustomed to seeing this copulation all their lives, it would more than likely be just one of those very ordinary non-tramatic occurances. However, if a child in our culture should accidently run across this view of their parents copulating, the child could find it not only puzzling or disgusting, but could be tramatic to the child.

Especially, it would be tramatic to an unfortunate, poorly adjusted child who has not successfully resolved his or her possible jealousy of the usual, ordinary, affection the oposite sex parent shows for husband/wife (rivalry between child and parent for affection. Oedipus Complex?) However, most children's emotional development is more secure.

[nudeboots]

I agree with your statement about Margret Mead David77, she did major studies on the impact that our culture of repression has impossed on our social responsiblity. She found that repression almost always ended with severe acting out.
Our society is not ready to accept honest lovemaking, there is too much money to be made in media presentations and porn for that to happen. Like it or not money not morality is what drives our world, and it is in the best interests of those who make money out of expoitation to hide behind morality, because if we just accepted the way we looked we would not spend money on fashion. If we accepted and were honest in our sexuality there would be no money to be made in porn. I also agree with Rik,(something I hate to admit) pornography is exloitation pure and simple. Porn makes money because our society is repressed. I am sorry to get off on a rant but I truly believe that opposition to nudity is driven more by greed than morality.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nudeboots:
I also agree with Rik,(something I hate to admit) ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why? Was it something I said?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[newcastlecalkid]

I enjoy sex in public places, particularly in secluded areas in nature. I am extremely discreet and not interested in anyone seeing me.

I understand why this is such an hot topic among naturists who are trying to give nudity and sexuality completely different definitions.

As a "new nudist" I find the link between nudity and general sexuality innate to the act of nudism because it involves acceptance of the natural body. (Our sexual organs are in full view of all)

I admit I have not been to many naturist clubs or venues.
I feel that sex in public places is okay if it is discreet, hidden from view, and respectful of others.

The Kid
(please dont take these statements out of context)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Wow Rik, I'm liking you more and more each day. Not many people would admit that viewing sex isn't harmful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's just make this crystal clear before anyone misinterprets your comment. Viewing sex is not harmful to anyone. It may be culturally unacceptable and it's certainly not wanted at naturist venues but it's not harmful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with that. I don't want it on our nude beaches because it hurts an already difficult situation. People need to understand that nudism and sex are seperate issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've edited the next paragraph in later as an afterthought.

On second thoughts I think there may be a few circumstances where the simple viewing of sex may be harmful such as where a child were to see one parent having sex with a complete stranger, but to allow such a thing to happen would amount to child abuse.

BUT viewing sex which is packaged as pornography may be harmful to some vulnerable people.

The difference is sex is a natural human function but pornography uses ideas and images which give a distorted view of the real world. A Martian (or indeed a human) trying to learn about human sexuality by viewing porn may well conclude that every encounter between males and females results in the female dropping to her knees and whipping the guy's penis out or that any two or three women in a room together must be lesbians. Pornography degrades sex and is fundamentally more about commercialism and manipulation than eroticism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I could say the same about all TV and movies. A martian viewing TV would get a real warped idea of what we are really like. However I think porn is a good thing in general. It is usually done badly because most are done on a shoestring budget. The concept of porn (I like calling it erotica... sounds better) is a good one. It is the people behind it that can exploit people at times but in general there are no reasons to hate it that I can see. What is really hilarious is that the fundamentalist religionists are behind most warped views of sex and nudity and ultimately cause people to turn to porn because they were taught that natural sexual feelings are bad and they use porn to let off steam. Thanks to the RRR people have made a lot of money on porn.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Rik


What I meant is that I like how you think.... you aren't afraid to think differently than what is presented to you (out of the box) and that is a very good thing.
http://www.clothesfree.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

[nudeboots]

Rik, when I first started reading this forum I formed the opinion that you were a nudist purist, ie: no sex please we are nudists. Some of the older nudist take this view to the extreme, and I put you into that category. In your posts in this discussion I find myself agreeing with most of your points. I do not believe our society is mature enough to handle open sexuality. I am not a fan of porn, not because I am opposed to watching sexual activity but because I hate the exploitation of sexual activity. By the way I also dislike the fashion industry and the whole body beautiful industry. If people would just spend time walking and cycling instead of driving everywhere they would feel better and the gyms would all go bankrupt. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Bob S.]

The problem with sex in public is that it is illegal. And just as people doing illegal drugs pollutes the area where they are in, so does regular sex on a beach. Neighborhoods that have drug problems have usually beome run-down and the drug dealers and addicts have taken over. Only a community wide effort to push them away helps.

The same can be said with sex on a nude beach. If you allow these people to take over, it will become their beach and only a large number of people will be able to stop them, of course the difference is that nudity is usually illegal on these beaches and that will also be disallowed to keep this beach clean. That is why keeping sex off of nude beaches is so important; usually nudity is techically illegal and is one step away from being targeted.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

"Sex is natural. Sex is fun. Sex is best when it's one-on-one."

George Michael sang that in a song (name it, I can't remember) and it has a lot of validity in it, which is why it was so cottroversial at the time.

Nudists have sex. We are only human and have natural tendencies. The only difference is that we are not naked only for sex and bathing.

Comparing the Margaret Mead Samoan tribe of people to general society is the reaction of the adults and society in general. The Samoan adults had no qualms when it came to their children seeing them having sex. The children's viewing of it, therefore, was not looked down upon and no one made a big deal of it. Since society had no negative reaction, the children could not have any negative reaction to it.

Society's agreed-upon norms are what people use to live, decide laws upon, and raise the children. In some societies, day care would be an abomination akin to child neglect.

Children learn about the world by observing the reactions of adults and peers around them. If they are taught that nudity is bad, that will be how they live their lives. If they see their parents drinking a lot, they will consider that to be normal. There is no such thing as something you simply view as being harmful to you (except looking into the sun). It is in the reaction of others where the decisions about how something will affect the children are made.

I hope that made sense. I'm getting tired.

Bob S.

[nudeboots]

Bob, your two last posts seem to be in conflict, yet I agree with you. If society did not make a big deal about sex in public it would be a non-issue, but it is a big deal in our world. Something else Margaret Mead said would add help put some perspective in this discussion. She stated "don't believe those who say that you can't solve the world's problems a tea spoon at a time, it is infact the only way to solve the worlds problems". Ms. Mead was refering to the environmental movement at the time, but her statement is just as relevant to any movement that wants to change the attitudes of people. In the nudist world that could mean first the general acceptance of topfree women wherever a man can go without a shirt, then work toward the acceptance of nudity in places like beaches, pools and parks, and into our day to day lives. Eventually even public sexual activity could become acceptible. That might not be as far away as we think if enough people were motivated that way. Unfortunatly there are a lot of people motivated by the exact opposite, ie: an even more suppressed society than we have today. I am sure that if these people had their way witch burning would come back in fashion. Small steps are the way to go. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Rik]

Nudeboots.

Thanks for the feedback. When I first joined these forums people thought I was rude and agressive (which I put down to transatlantic cultural differences) so perhaps only being accused of purism is a step in the right direction. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've never thought of myself as purist but I guess it boils down to how you define it. If truth be known naturism does not play a large part in my life (although I do go to nude beaches and nudist campsites etc) and is certainly not a consuming passion. My interest in it stems, I think, from the irrationality of mainstream thinking - i.e. that the unclothed human body is distasteful. What I have discovered is that us nudists can be just as irrational about the things they don't like (such as sex on the beach) and these discussion forums are an excellent place to examine ourselves in more depth.

For me the linking of sexuality with the practice of nudism is byproduct of our cultural upbringing but I don't for a moment deny that many people find the naked body sexually exciting, I do myself and that includes occasions when I'm in a naturist setting but it seems me that it is not nudism itself which is sexual but the way our culturally developed brains interpret the situation. If we believe that nudism equals sexuality then in my view we are simply acknowledging that the moral majority (for want fo a better expression) have got it right when they cannot think of nudity without associating it with sex.

So whilst nudists may well be sexual beings it's important for the future of naturism that the two things are as clearly separated as they are in the non-nudist world.

I looked up "purist" at dictionary.com and it said "One who practices or urges strict correctness, especially in the use of words." I'm not sure I "practice" or "urge strict correctness" when it comes to naturism but I truly believe that if we understand the the theory of nudism we are better able to take a practical view and are better able to confront our detractors and maybe even persuade one or two of them to join our ranks.

I will however confess to being very careful in my use of words. What I will also confess to is challenging just about any viewpoint (including my own) which for me is about learning - not so much what people think but why they think it.

And for what it's worth I had sex on a mountain top once - it was wonderful. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rik

[Naked Bob 2]

As usual I am a little late to join the discussion but better late than never right?

I am with Rik on this one. I am opposed to public sex not so much because it offends my sensiblilities but because it gives ammunition to the anti-nudist cause. More beaches have been lost because of this one than any other.

I also so feel rather annoyed at these folks, wether gay or straight. What they are in effect saying is that you don't matter to us. They know it is not appreciated but they continue to do it. They would never try this on a non-nudist beach so they are taking advantage of us.

I must admit that I have had sex out in the outdoors. Having said that I now appear somewhat of a hippocrite. In my defense I will say it was in a remote location with no others in veiw. My main concern as stated earlier is that we are going to lose some of our few nudist venues to public sex if we are not careful.

So if you feel the need to have sex in public don't do it at a nude beach.

[Trailscout]

It is the height of antisocial behavior for a couple to have sex on a nude beach.
Their moment of pleasure puts the nude status of the beach in jeapardy. Why should thousands of nudists potentially lose their beach because of the actions of one couple?

There are tribal cultures where their living quarters are so ephemeral that a couple's sexual activity is plainly visible to their children and even their neighbors in some cases. The Seminole in the Florida Everglades once lived in huts with no walls and they slept on hammocks. There is no privacy in such a setting.

These are not necessarily societies in which a man has sex with every living creature around him. Indeed such societies often have more taboos about those with whom you are allowed to have sex, more than in our Western culture. Many a "naked savage" commented on how the white man was like a dog, mating with any other dog with no regard for social order.

Cherokee society was divided into clans. One did not marry just any member of one's village, only fellow villagers from outside one's own clan were suitable spouses. Even more so, captured brides from other tribes were highly prized, since they brought in fresh blood to the village's gene pool.

I would never consider open sex on a nude beach for the additional reason that I would not feel safe from people who might do me harm. One can never assume that there aren't such people in a public setting.

Tribal peoples protect one another. Open sex is safe in such a setting, provided the tribe does not condemn such behavior.

A nudist resort could possibly be a similar place of safety, the members there constituting your "tribe". The only problem is that open sex would merely confirm the worst suspicions of textile people about us.

I am not advocating swinging or sex by or with children. We can have taboos against that just like any tribal society.

Echoing other posts, even among people whom I knew and trusted, I would still prefer making love to my wife in a quiet secluded place where we would be less likely to be interrupted or distracted.

I find exhibitionists annoying.

[nudeboots]

I agree with you trailscout, exibitionism is very annoying, and while I love outdoor sex, a public beach is not the place. There was a scandal on my local nude beach a few years ago about sex on the beach, and it just brought out all the elements of society that were looking to close down my piece of heaven. So for all those out there that can't resist the urge to do the horizontal bop outside, please find a nice secluded spot for it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
It is the height of antisocial behavior for a couple to have sex on a nude beach.
Their moment of pleasure puts the nude status of the beach in jeapardy. Why should thousands of nudists potentially lose their beach because of the actions of one couple?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Because nudists have been so quiet about who they are and what goes on at our resorts and beaches we are partly to blame for some of this open sex because some of the time people don't know that what they aren't doing is against the rules. Admittedly some do know they shouldn't be having sex on our beaches but from what I have personally seen the majority do not. This is easy to test.... ask anyone not a nudist about our lifestyle and usually the first thing we are asked is about orgies and they are usually surprised that nudism is usually a "family" activity.