Airline and cockpit nudity in the news [Archive]

RCH44

11-18-2006, 05:56 AM

I remeber reading about this. Nude at 30,000 feet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
Airline and cockpit nudity in the news

Link to: "Airline and cockpit nudity in the news" Article (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/2003-04-25-sw-naked-pilots.htm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

missouriboy

11-18-2006, 06:06 AM

Yeah, I think we even had a thread on here back around the time of that article. Which was "04/24/2003 - Updated 11:27 PM ET"

The Castaways Travel photo was much later, and unrelated to the linked article.

K and C

11-18-2006, 09:02 AM

If my pilot wants to be nude while flying, Eat pancakes, Wear one sock, I really dont care as long as he gets me on the ground safely. No Harm no foul

hm0504

11-18-2006, 11:26 AM

A more recent news story re breastfeeding on an airplane:
http://www.nowpublic.com/mom_kicked_off_delta_flight_for_breastfeeding

Nude in the North

11-18-2006, 01:05 PM

"A breast-feeding mother is perfectly acceptable on an aircraft, providing she is feeding the child in a discreet way,"

Everything in this quote is perfect untill you get to the word "Providing".

Mothers should not be required to be "discreet" in any way while feeding their child. It should be up to the mom to choose how discreet she is, not the general public, or an airline employee.

The laws protecting breast feeding don't require the mother to be discreet, and for good reason.
There are too many opinions about what would be discreet enough.
Most people would think this woman was being very discreet, but one person wasn't satisfied.
Look what happened.
The entire family was cast off the plane. A vacation was ruined. Law suits are sure to follow.
Why?
Because a Law was broken. Not by the woman breast feeding her child. But by the Flight Attendent, and the Airline.

The law is clear. Women have the right to breast feed. Period!
If you don't like seeing it, DON'T LOOK!

Steve

DenitaLC

11-18-2006, 05:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nude in the North:
"A breast-feeding mother is perfectly acceptable on an aircraft, providing she is feeding the child in a discreet way,"

Everything in this quote is perfect untill you get to the word "Providing".

Mothers should not be required to be "discreet" in any way while feeding their child. It should be up to the mom to choose how discreet she is, not the general public, or an airline employee.

The laws protecting breast feeding don't require the mother to be discreet, and for good reason.
There are too many opinions about what would be discreet enough.
Most people would think this woman was being very discreet, but one person wasn't satisfied.
Look what happened.
The entire family was cast off the plane. A vacation was ruined. Law suits are sure to follow.
Why?
Because a Law was broken. Not by the woman breast feeding her child. But by the Flight Attendent, and the Airline.

The law is clear. Women have the right to breast feed. Period!
If you don't like seeing it, DON'T LOOK!

Steve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nude in the North: Thank you so much for your post! I couldn't have said it better. As a former nursing mother, this type of story makes me so angry. ESPECIALLY when this mother was doing everything right. That flight attendent should be, at best, demoted if not fired. All she had to do was look away as she passed this seat. We all know how terribly hot and stuffy planes get prior to take off while sitting at the gate. To ask that mother to cover with a blanket and add to that heat is cruel.

I hope she gets some vindication!

naturalmanwa

11-18-2006, 05:55 PM

I feel that if a mother wants to breast feed her baby, she has the right to do so. That is one of the purposes of the breast. Our Creator made humans to function that way. If someone has a problem with it, too bad!

hm0504

11-18-2006, 06:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DenitaLC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nude in the North:
"A breast-feeding mother is perfectly acceptable on an aircraft, providing she is feeding the child in a discreet way,"

Everything in this quote is perfect untill you get to the word "Providing".

Mothers should not be required to be "discreet" in any way while feeding their child. It should be up to the mom to choose how discreet she is, not the general public, or an airline employee.

The laws protecting breast feeding don't require the mother to be discreet, and for good reason.
There are too many opinions about what would be discreet enough.
Most people would think this woman was being very discreet, but one person wasn't satisfied.
Look what happened.
The entire family was cast off the plane. A vacation was ruined. Law suits are sure to follow.
Why?
Because a Law was broken. Not by the woman breast feeding her child. But by the Flight Attendent, and the Airline.

The law is clear. Women have the right to breast feed. Period!
If you don't like seeing it, DON'T LOOK!

Steve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nude in the North: Thank you so much for your post! I couldn't have said it better. As a former nursing mother, this type of story makes me so angry. ESPECIALLY when this mother was doing everything right. That flight attendent should be, at best, demoted if not fired. All she had to do was look away as she passed this seat. We all know how terribly hot and stuffy planes get prior to take off while sitting at the gate. To ask that mother to cover with a blanket and add to that heat is cruel.

I hope she gets some vindication! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, now, rather than demoting or firing the flight attendant, how about sensitivity training -- e.g. forced to look at natural breastfeeding until the attendant is used to it.

Nude in the North

11-18-2006, 10:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now, now, rather than demoting or firing the flight attendant, how about sensitivity training -- e.g. forced to look at natural breastfeeding until the attendant is used to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or better yet. Wrap her in a heavy blanket and stick her in a stuffy plane for an hour or two.
And follow her to restaurants and throw a blanked over her claiming to be offended by the way she eats.

Steve

Liam

11-19-2006, 12:27 AM

burgee

11-19-2006, 02:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naturalmanwa:
I feel that if a mother wants to breast feed her baby, she has the right to do so. That is one of the purposes of the breast. Our Creator made humans to function that way. If someone has a problem with it, too bad! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, okay, but then by that line of reasoning is it okay for her to perform other natural body functions like take a dump or a leak in the presence of strangers?

burgee

11-19-2006, 02:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
Airline and cockpit nudity in the news

Link to: "Airline and cockpit nudity in the news" Article (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2003/2003-04-25-sw-naked-pilots.htm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a great way to assure airline safety, if all the passengers had to be nude. Travelers would probably be friendlier and more comfortable that way, too.
There aren't many orifices that can hide enough contraband to be dangerous to others.

Stu2630

11-19-2006, 04:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's a great way to assure airline safety, if all the passengers had to be nude. Travelers would probably be friendlier and more comfortable that way, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reality check! Forcing people to be nude would be an abuse. People aren't generally comfortable being nude in the presence of others, especially strangers.

The "friendliness" of nudists is probably due to them being in a minority and, arguably, a misunderstood minority. I suspect that if nudism ever became mainstream, it would lose much of its cosy "friendliness".

Stu

hm0504

11-19-2006, 08:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by burgee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by naturalmanwa:
I feel that if a mother wants to breast feed her baby, she has the right to do so. That is one of the purposes of the breast. Our Creator made humans to function that way. If someone has a problem with it, too bad! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, okay, but then by that line of reasoning is it okay for her to perform other natural body functions like take a dump or a leak in the presence of strangers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Peeing and defecating are different because they produce waste products that need to be handled in a sanitary way. Breastfeeding, like other forms of dining, do not have that attribute (forgetting the issue of junk food for the moment). Why should breastfeeding be hidden? Why is the female breast considered offensive?

walter05

11-19-2006, 09:26 AM

I am not sure which is more offensive. The actions of the flight attendant are unacceptable. However, it is incredible that anyone would be confused as to going to the bathroom and nursing.

When a mother is nursing, this is a holy bonding time as well as feeding.

The mother should not have been required to cover. It is sometimes important to first make sure that the bay is latched on correctly and doing well. The mother would need to help the baby and the blanket would get in the way.

This flight attendant was the one that was offensive.

P.S. Over the years, my wife and I have flown with six children. She also breast fed them from the discreet window seat when about to take off to help them. Almost all of the flights were on Delta and no one ever bothered us.

[Stu what do you think of the flight attendant's attitude and actions.]

Naturist Mark

11-19-2006, 10:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This flight attendant was the one that was offensive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The flight attendent and the airline were also breaking the law. It has been illegal in Vermont to harass a mother (or child) for breastfeeding since 2002.

-Mark

kphoger

11-19-2006, 03:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The laws protecting breast feeding don't require the mother to be discreet, and for good reason.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
i was under the impression that these laws are state-by-state, and that some states do require mothers to be discreet. i think specifically of missouri:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Mo. Rev. Stat. § 191.918 (1999) allows a mother, with as much discretion as possible, to breastfeed her child in any public or private location.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
when an airline offers service to many states, and the state laws are different, what is the airline to do? is it to go with the most strict, the most liberal, or change its stance depending on what state the airplane is in? i think the legality of breastfeeding openly on an airplane is probably more complicated than you make it out to be.

i am, however, in full agreement that a mother *should* be allowed to breastfeed openly and not have to be discreet. however, i don't make the laws.

Naturist Mark

11-19-2006, 04:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i was under the impression that these laws are state-by-state, and that some states do require mothers to be discreet. i think specifically of missouri:

quote:
Mo. Rev. Stat. § 191.918 (1999) allows a mother, with as much discretion as possible, to breastfeed her child in any public or private location.

when an airline offers service to many states, and the state laws are different, what is the airline to do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Missouri is among the least permissive states with respect to state laws protecting the right of breast feeding, yet even under Missouri law what the airline did on the ground in Vermont was illegal. In Vermont - where this situation happened while sitting on the ground at the airport the law says "Sec. 4502. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breastfeed her child in any place of public accommodation in which the mother and child would otherwise have a legal right to be." Discretion is not required and cannot be imposed.

-Mark

Bob S.

11-19-2006, 07:51 PM

burgee:"Well, okay, but then by that line of reasoning is it okay for her to perform other natural body functions like take a dump or a leak in the presence of strangers?"

Have you ever been in a men's room? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/rolleyes2.gif

This is not the same. The correct question would be "is it okay to eat in the presence of strangers. That is what the baby girl was doing, suckling the nipple. Urine and feces are waste products. Milk is considered food.

kphoger:Mo. Rev. Stat. § 191.918 (1999) allows a mother, with as much discretion as possible, to breastfeed her child in any public or private location.

The words "with as much discretion as possible" are important. That can describe virtually all mothers who nurse in public. And in this instance, the mother was sitting in the back of the plane at a window seat with her husband on the seat next to her on the aisle. I would consider that to be "with as much discretion as possible".

Stu:"Reality check! Forcing people to be nude would be an abuse. People aren't generally comfortable being nude in the presence of others, especially strangers."

Who is forcing anyone to be naked? Only those who want to fly on certain carriers would be required to denude before embarking. Now what the flight attendant to the nursing mother was abuse.

Bob S.

missouriboy

11-20-2006, 04:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what is the airline to do? is it to ... change its stance depending on what state the airplane is in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I recall hearing a passenger remark that he could buy drinks on his flight, but not while the plane was over a "dry" state. 3x,000 feet high, and not stopping there! Sounds pretty foolish to me. Does that still happen?

Stu2630

11-20-2006, 05:12 AM

Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who is forcing anyone to be naked? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

burgee. He said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's a great way to assure airline safety, if all the passengers had to be nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stu

nudewheelchairTodd

12-03-2006, 12:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nude in the North:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now, now, rather than demoting or firing the flight attendant, how about sensitivity training -- e.g. forced to look at natural breastfeeding until the attendant is used to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or better yet. Wrap her in a heavy blanket and stick her in a stuffy plane for an hour or two.
And follow her to restaurants and throw a blanked over her claiming to be offended by the way she eats.

Steve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that funny, it like how people react to Disable people like myself.

Big-Thinker

12-03-2006, 08:52 AM

On breastfeeding in public:
I think mother's should be careful with covering with a blanket. I haven't seen an scientific measurements of this, but I cannot imagine the baby getting quality oxygen if the baby's nose is somewhat blocked from open air. Of course it is well-known that oxygen deprivation can cause brain damage. I don't know, maybe it is not such a problem... but I would recommend a nursing mother not cover with a blanket, but maybe wear something that covers much of the breast (as seen in the article linked-to earlier (http://www.nowpublic.com/mom_kicked_off_delta_flight_for_breastfeeding). Another option is to find a place that is more out of public view. Maybe airlines should reserve some seats (with curtains) for nursing mothers if they have a problem with them.

I am the type of nudist that, in general, believes we nudists should be appropriate and respect our laws/culture's taboos when in public, but I think I do feel different about breastfeeding, because of it's great importance, and a nursing mother shouldn't have stay at home for a couple years just to be able to breastfeed. As a default mode, I think people should just "deal with it", as I think was said earlier.

I may have mentioned on another topic, I was in a mall once, walking through a wing with very few people walking by. There was an Islamic family, and the mother was covered head to toe, with only her eyes showing, and a large, brown breast feeding her baby. I thought, for all the cultural things muslims are criticized for, obviously they have some priorities straight over the American mainstream.

hm0504

12-03-2006, 10:01 AM

Personally, I always eat with a blanket over my head so as not to offend people.

emsdude

12-03-2006, 04:09 PM

Soon the only way you be able to go on public tranist if you are nude. It just may come down to that.You can't hide anything that way.

Evernude

01-04-2007, 11:25 PM

As for the topic of being nude on an airplane: It would be very stupid for passengers or pilots to be nude during takeoff and landing. If an emergency evacuation were required, you would see some very serious injuries. Try going down a 40 foot long emergency slide off the rear exit of a 767 on your bare ***. Ouch! Would a flight attendant or a pilot push through wreckage or flames to save you if they were nude? Probably not. I would only allow nudity once the seatbelt sign was turned off. On initial approach to the airport, the sign comes back on and so do the clothes.

As a side note, you should always fly wearing durable, heavy cotton pants (jeans, for example), a long sleeve cotton shirt and low heel boots of some kind. Cotton won't melt into your skin like synthetics, nor will they burst into flames at the first sign of a fire. Trust me, I speak from experience.

Bushnud2

01-04-2007, 11:48 PM

With respect Gary, this is stale news. Of some three years I believe. But the concept is excellent.

Dana Jackson

01-05-2007, 12:32 AM

yes

NakedGary

01-05-2007, 03:10 AM

I don't think I have seen any requirements that nudes in the news has to be current 2006 or 2007 news. Lots of wire services, press releases publish older news, and any nudist and naturist news is often re referenced or published over and over again.

Such as:Mention of "Naked Air" flights 2003-2006 (http://www.google.com/search?q=Naked%20Air)

http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/08/23/fly-naked-air/

http://anonymouslefty.blogspot.com/2006/08/naked-air-travel.html

http://lippard.blogspot.com/2006/08/naked-air-travel.html

http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/08/23/fly-naked-air/feed/

and so on .......