Nudist ties to Swinger Resorts

[Trailscout]

In another thread, Bill Martin aka "Friend" mentioned advertisements in the back of Naturally Magazine for the Hedonism resorts.

The Hedonism resorts are not nudist resorts, but have sections where nudity is allowed. Hedonism resorts are advertised and promoted on some nudist Web sites and in Naturally Magazine. AANR's Bulletin and the Naturist Society's N Magazine, however refuse to accept advertisements from them because these resorts have bawdy erotic parties and forbid children from visiting.

Hedonism's FAQ page issues a disclaimer that public sex is forbidden, but they do allow open sexual solicitations there and even helpfully suggest to prospective visitors where the swingers tend to gather at their resorts. A visit to their Web site will show you a sample of their latest official events: Wet T-Shirt Contest, Amateur Strip & Rump Shakin' Contest, Body Shots Party, among them.
I don't know why they bother to forbid public sexual intercourse when they cheerfully sponsor public foreplay events.

Is there a place within the world of nudism for an erotic resort? I say no!

Since the days of its' beginnings in Europe with "Frei Korper Kultur", nudists have created a family-friendly society where erotic behavior is confined to private moments.

Nudism is not just about being nude, it is about creating a community and society that works, a lifestyle we can proudly pass on to our children.

I refuse to allow Naturally Magazine into my home. INA should reconsider their partnership with this magazine.

[Trailscout]

In another thread, Bill Martin aka "Friend" mentioned advertisements in the back of Naturally Magazine for the Hedonism resorts.

The Hedonism resorts are not nudist resorts, but have sections where nudity is allowed. Hedonism resorts are advertised and promoted on some nudist Web sites and in Naturally Magazine. AANR's Bulletin and the Naturist Society's N Magazine, however refuse to accept advertisements from them because these resorts have bawdy erotic parties and forbid children from visiting.

Hedonism's FAQ page issues a disclaimer that public sex is forbidden, but they do allow open sexual solicitations there and even helpfully suggest to prospective visitors where the swingers tend to gather at their resorts. A visit to their Web site will show you a sample of their latest official events: Wet T-Shirt Contest, Amateur Strip & Rump Shakin' Contest, Body Shots Party, among them.
I don't know why they bother to forbid public sexual intercourse when they cheerfully sponsor public foreplay events.

Is there a place within the world of nudism for an erotic resort? I say no!

Since the days of its' beginnings in Europe with "Frei Korper Kultur", nudists have created a family-friendly society where erotic behavior is confined to private moments.

Nudism is not just about being nude, it is about creating a community and society that works, a lifestyle we can proudly pass on to our children.

I refuse to allow Naturally Magazine into my home. INA should reconsider their partnership with this magazine.

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:

Is there a place within the world of nudism for an erotic resort? I say no!

Since the days of its' beginnings in Europe with "Frei Korper Kultur", nudists have created a family-friendly society where erotic behavior is confined to private moments.

Nudism is not just about being nude, it is about creating a community and society that works, a lifestyle we can proudly pass on to our children.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with and practice the values expressed by Trailscout, though I would point out that there are adults-only resorts that maintain high standards of conduct. We'll be at one next week. As much as we love and enjoy kids, we aren't spending large vacation dollars in order to be around someone else's children.

Regarding the two Hedonism resorts, the sexually charged atmosphere is one of their major selling points. If you read trip reports from either resort, you'll find that public foreplay is common and, depending on who's there during a particular week, public intercourse may be readily visible. Group sexual play is fostered by the staff.

But can resorts like this be excluded from use of the term "nudism"? I'm not sure that it can copyrighted to reflect only the values of people like Trailscout and myself. Surely the language needs a general word to describe people who take their clothes off in social settings, and I can't think of one more appropriate than nudist or nudism.

My preference is to identify myself with the term "family naturism." I tell people that our practice of social nudity is restricted to places where you see no behavior that you would be embarrassed to show your mother or your minister. Family naturism describes such settings well, I think.

AANR and The Naturist Society (I'm a TNS member) are encouraging more than nudity; they're promoting an entire philosophy. It makes sense that they reject advertising that is counter to their philosphy, and they deserve respect for it. Since I'm not sure what INA's philosophy is, other than that it is trying to reach a younger group, I'm not prepared to say whether or not they are accepting ads that run counter to their values. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Any resort that has open sexual activity going on and calls itself a nudist resort is only strengthening the world's belief that nudist resorts are sex clubs. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bushel to quote an old saying.

As nudists we are trying to get people to accept social nudism as a clean fun family-oriented way of life, but certainly not as a place to go to get sex. I would never go to such a place, nor recommend it anyone else. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Trailscout]

Nude Always,
You are correct in assuming that this one well-known resort gives nudism a bad name.
To be entirely accurate, Hedonism resorts are not officially nudist. They are resorts that have areas where clothing is mandatory and areas where clothing is optional.
But the average man on the street will not understand the difference. He or she will hear that nudity and lewd behavior are encouraged there and the link between nude and lewd is established and unfortunately is extended to all naturist and nudist establishments everywhere.

The family naturism we love is unknown to the outside world.

We must be resolute not to have anything to do with resorts that tolerate swinging. We must also object vigorously everytime we see a sexually-oriented classified advertisement in the back of any nudist publication.

INA is not personally responsible for the Hedonism advertisement in the back of Naturally Magazine, but INA will be personally affected by the negative public perception such ads create. Yes, Bart you are right in suggesting that we write the editor of Naturally, but that is not enough. INA is a major portal to new subscribers to Naturally and thus should have considerable leverage in putting an end to such advertisements.

Here are a few other examples of nudist compromise with the porn industry:
Clothing Optional Forum is a e-newsletter that endorses swinging and promotes Hedo. Nudeplaces is a travel Web site that promotes Hedo on a nearly continual basis.
I have broken all contact with these organizations. The British Magazine, H&E accepts sexually oriented classified advertisements. The photos themselves, while not porn, do feature very enticing cheese-cake poses and lecherous camera angles.

In Borders Bookshop, I recently saw both H&E and the Naturist Society Magazine in the porn rack. H&E deserves the insult, but the TNS Magazine does not belong there. I immediately contacted the editor of "N" and gave her contact info., so they could rectify this situation. I also complained to the store manager.

If we do nothing, swingers, pedophiles and porn pushers will claim naturism as their own. When they do, the radical right wingers will have the excuse they need to outlaw all nude beaches, all nudist resorts and maybe even household nudity. I have already heard about child welfare agents taking children away from nudist families. I talked to a fellow in Florida who said that backyard nudity, even behind a 10 foot fence is illegal in a certain county. Many of you have heard that in Arkansas it is illegal even to advocate nudism! This isn't supposed to happen in America! Wake up! Stand up for your rights!

Even if we legally win back our nude places, if the general public continues to think that all nudity is kinky, naughty, sleazy, etc., we haven't won much.

We have to win the hearts of the people and to win their hearts we have to find some way to get out the truth about us.

[Bartamus]

MWK: Perhaps you didn't read one of my most
recent postings. INA does not publish
Naturally magazine. We only make it
available to our members. It's your choice
if you subscribe or not. If you'll read
the magazine..you'll find they publish in
New Jersey. I'm sure you can figure a way
to complain to them.

[Bob S.]

Aye Bart, but if you advertise for a certain product, you are telling your audience that you agree with all that they represent.

And since the only way to order Naturally magazine on your site is to also become a member of the INA, you are linking both your site and the magazine in a symbiotic relationship. What ideas one aspouses , it is assumed that the other also believes in, too.

Bob S.

[Trailscout]

Bart,
I disagree slightly with Bob. It is a bit of a stretch to say that you wholeheartedly endorse every product offered in the back of a magazine you market, but do not publish.

While I do not hold you directly responsible, I do believe that Hedonism is so destructive to family naturism and the values that INA stands for, that it is a form of slow suicide to be a marketing portal for a magazine that has no limit on the sort of ads they will accept.

You do have leverage with Naturally's publishers. You are a major portal for new subscribers for Naturally Magazine and you are ethically bound to insist that they adopt some minimum standards for the advertisements they will accept.

Practically speaking, there are enough sources of revenue from legitimate nudist establishments that there is no need for them to compromise (nor for you).

Bart, if I didn't think you, Cory and Corky, et al. had high standards, I wouldn't be writing this.

[justme]

Hey Bart and everyone else:
Yes the magazine Naturally does have some ads that don?t agree with me, that?s why when I just renewed my membership I chose not to receive it. Yes that is an option.
I am sure now that INA will be looking into this complaint, but advertisers are a big part of a magazines profit and as Bart said they do not publish it. Of course INA could support another magazine, but that is up to them. You may find that any magazine you pick up on the market today will have some questionable adds in it.
I started reading these posts about a year ago and think INA and Bartamus and the rest of the crew are doing a great job. I saw so many negative responses to post, I never wanted to post anything myself. It seams that has changed now. Thanks guys! Let INA look into this and I am sure things will work out.
Take care!
Dale?..

[Trailscout]

Dale,

I am proud to stand with you in your refusal to subscribe to a magazine that has advertisements that I would ashamed for my family to see.

I think it may be premature to suggest that INA offer another magazine. I believe that Naturally can be persuaded to clean up their act. Let's give it a try!

I hope you are not suggesting that Naturally could not survive without accepting ads from swinger clubs and pornographers. There should be no shortage of true nudist resorts and vendors of non-sexual products to make up any loss in ad. revenue.

You also said, "You may find that any magazine you pick up on the market today will have some questionable adds in it."
I respectfully disagree. AANR's Bulletin and TNS's Nude and Natural Magazine will not accept such ads. Jim Cunningham publishes the wonderful "NLI Magazine". It is clean, has thoughtful articles, and all photos are in good taste. Jim, the editor is a Catholic Christian and many of his readers are Christians of various sorts, but he steadfastly keeps it a magazine for all nudists of good will, and even non-nudists who are open-minded enough to listen.

Bart is to be credited for doing what was necessary to make this forum a friendly place, even when we don't agree on a matter.

[justme]

Trailscout
I will look into the magazines you spoke of. As usual these post educate us all.
Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately, I have a 3 year subscription to Naturally magazine. I didn't know what I now know. I won't be renewing when it runs out though, but that won't be for a while.

As stated above I find these posts very informative. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Bob S.]

TrailScout,

When I said that promoting a product implies agreeing with "all that they represent", I did not mean, especially for a magazine, everything written or advertised in the magazine. I am just saying that INA is suggesting that they agree with the general message that is being put out by "Naturally" magazine, both written and implied.

Bob S.

[Trailscout]

Jon-Marc,

As a subscriber to Naturally Magazine, you are in a position to do what I cannot.

As distasteful as it might be, would you identify the sexually-oriented products and services offered in Naturally and post them here?

Let's leave out contact info. I don't want to inadvertently advertise for these goons.

I have heard credible testimony from you and others about these kinky ads, but my opinions would not carry as much weight as they would from a subscriber who has actually seen those ads.

I would be willing to write the publisher if we can get specifics.

Again, I am hoping that Naturally can be persuaded to drop the offensive ads and find other equally lucrative sponsors. Let's try to save this magazine if we can.

[Corky]

cc: to all from Bern Loibl - Internaturally, Inc.:
Thanks Corky, I appreciate the feedback. You can post this, if you like.

I also hated that ad and was thrilled that GoClassy Tours finally stopped advertising with Naturally. We had reluctantly accepted their "bad taste" Hedo ad because of their standing as one of the few
naturist travel agents at the time, especially after they bought Skinnydip Tours. Their choice to promote SuperClubs resorts with cheesecake advertising was uncomfortable to us, and had attempted
numerously to get a different ad from them. We are not trying to shape naturism, but rather let naturism shape us. Sometimes it's down right disagreeable. We had contractually committed to accepting
their ad on the back cover, for which they paid a premium and prevented other advertisers from getting that space. However, since Internaturally Travel decided to compete in the naturist travel
business, GoClassy bowed out from continuing their advertising in Naturally. All things have a way of working out. I was one of the original naturist activists who fought four our beaches and rights,
and do not appreciated being challenged on my naturist integrity, however, I can appreciate that the public does not alway get the full picture, and sometimes it takes a little time to get things worked
out. The ad in Naturally's last issue's back cover and upcoming issue is by Club Orient. We're delighted to have their support.
Regards,
Bern Loibl - Internaturally, Inc.

[Trailscout]

Nude Always,
May I count on your help to see if Mr. Loibl is a man of his word and had indeed stopped accepting advertisements from sex clubs or at least travel clubs that promote sex resorts?

I think he now realizes, if he did not before, that the naturist community takes strong exception to such ads.

Mr. Loibl indirectly admits that there were other naturist travel agents he could have accepted advertising from. (Note his words, "because of their standing as one of the few naturist travel agents at the time" (the word "few" means that he had others to choose from).
I do not fault him for honoring a contract, but I do for negotiating a contract that had no restrictive clause that would prohibit ads for sex clubs, or prohibit ads that were sexually suggestive or "cheesecake". Indeed, he was under no obligation to enter a contract with them at all.

Also note his words, " We are not trying to shape naturism, but rather let naturism shape us". Surely he knows that the "naturism" that shapes us is certainly not Goclassy tours, the shameless promoters of sex clubs like Hedonism.

Most of us don't have any trouble distinguishing a sex tourism company from a promoter of family naturist resorts.

So I am counting on those of you who have subscriptions to Naturally to let me know if they have indeed cleaned up their act. If they have, I might take out a subscription. If not, I will do my utmost to draw negative attention to any ads that perpetuate the myth that naturism is about sex.

[NakedBee]

Your negativity and over reaction to something as silly as an ad only hurts the thing you love: Naturism.

[Trailscout]

NakedBee,
I apologize for sounding negative. If I hear good things about Naturally in the near future, I will gladly subscribe and let bygones be bygones.

MWK,
I am grateful for your insight into the problem.
It would be unfair of me to equate Mr. Loibl with Larry Flynt and Hustler Magazine.
CEO's such as Mr. Loibl are the visionaries of a company, whether it be a Naturist Magazine or a retail coffee shop chain. The Bible says, "without a vision, the people perish". Perhaps he temporarily lost sight of naturist goals and wound up doing damage control in the aftermath of a ill-conceived contract. Yes, it would have been better, as you say, "if they had had a strategy already in place to truly further wholesome naturism"

I believe a Naturist journal does not have the luxury of neutrality. Naturists are not above criticism, and a there is a place for a bit of dispassionate self-examination, but Naturally and all naturist publications must ultimately be advocates for our cause, even down to setting strict policies for the ads they will accept.

We must never acquiesce to notion that naturism comes in two flavors, "swinger and family-naturist". These are two disparate lifestyles, with only nudity in common.

Trailscout, I don't keep any of my issues after I read them any more than I do with other magazines, but I will check the next one I get very closely. I'm not sure when the next issue is due. NakedBee feels we're being too negative about this, but it's inappropriate advertising connected with social nudity that will only hurt and not help our cause, which is to open the eyes of non-nudists to the joys and pleasures of social nudity. It's also our goal to get social nudity accepted by the public as a family-oriented lifestyle that is wholesome and natural.

I'm with you and others on either helping to get the publishers of Naturally magazine to clean up their magazine, or letting them know that at least some of their subscribers won't renew, and potential subscribers won't subscribe. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Bartamus]

Bob S. and anyone else previously critical
with INA for it's sponsorship of "naturally
magazine"
Let me correct another inaccuracy that you
can only get a subscription to Naturally via
INA. Wrong. It's also available through
Nude and Natural and the Naturist Society and
I've personally seen it on the magazine
stand at Borders Books!

Justme: Thanks for your kind observations.
We are trying.

[Bob S.]

Bart,

I never said, and hope you didn't read it that way, that Naturally magazine was available only via your site.

I was saying that the way you have it set up on your site, if you want to subscribe to "Naturally", you must buy membership into the INA as well. I am aware of the many other sites to purchase the magazine including their own home page.

Bob S.

[Bartamus]

Bob S. Sorry about that. I stand corrected