Paradise Lakes Nudist Resort Sold July 2007

[NakedGary]

From today's LAKER - - - - - TNC

Paradise Lakes Nudist Resort sold
By Marcia Stone, Pasco Naturally Editor July 5 2007

Paradise Lakes Resort, touted as America’s premier clothing-optional nudist resort, is being sold by Joe Lettelleir to nudist John Forier who has lived at Paradise Lakes for the past two and a half years.

Lettelleir made the announcement at the Paradise Lakes Condominium Association general meeting on June 30.

There are going to be many changes at the resort, according to Forier, who promised more details on Wednesday, July 11 when all details are finalized.

Although Forier has the same business challenges as Lettelleir had regarding the 26-year-old establishment, there is much hope of a widespread renewal of Paradise Lakes, which has five community associations.

“I feel John will be able to revive Paradise with needed capital and expansion. I am excited for the prospect of the future of Paradise Lakes,” said Joe Lettelleir.

Paradise Lakes Condominium Association President Gloria Ponn is looking forward to working with John Forier. “I feel he will be an asset to our community. He is a nudist and understands our lifestyle.”

“I’m happy to hear it, I’m delighted. It will be progress for nudists. In my travels to other resorts it has always seemed a better fit when a nudist was the owner,” says The Fountains Association President Victoria Stewart.

PLCA Vice President Bob Moore, who worked closely with Lettelleir, said, “I’m very delighted that John has bought it and I know it’s for the betterment of Paradise. John has already spoken to me about restoring the lakeside area and I know the residents will be pleased about this development.”

The Villages of Paradise Lakes Association Secretary Dwight Mitchell said, “I can give you my comment in one word, YAHOO!”
The nudist lifestyle is alive and well in Pasco County with the largest concentration of nudists in North America. Other area resorts include Caliente Resort & Spa, The Oasis, Lake Como Family Nudist Resort, Gulf Coast Nudist Resort and The Island Group.

The 15 acre Paradise Lakes resort has a current taxable value of $1,186,629, according to the Pasco Appraiser’s Office.

Original landowner: Alma F. Kinsman
County records show a warranty deed November 1981 for $90,000

In December 1987 Amcon Products Inc. was seller and Paradise Lakes Inc. buyer

[sunaddicted]

Originally posted by Richard Kenner:
Another update from the Laker:

Forier says in "The Laker" that he is a 25 year nudist.

According to the Laker newspaper Forier was a developer in Colorado and retired. Forier was quoted as saying, "Im buying Paradise Lakes for fun." The gym and new apartments planned by the former owner, Joe Lettelleir to be built on the tennis courts at the north end of Paradise Lakes have been put on hold by the new owner.

Forier also plans to redefine the term clothing optional meaning people who have been attending Paradise Lakes clothed will now be asked to be nude and people who attend the dances clothed will be observed more closely.

Thats great. I always thought that the dances at Paradise (and Caliente as well) were creepy with everyone dressed, many in bizarre outfits and many "lookers". I think the word nude needs to be the norm.

[Al Bundy]

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif for Mr. Forier. On my vist to Paradise Lakes I had ever intention of being nude 24/7 for 6 days and never put on a stich of clothing. It was fine during the day but at night when going to L'Attitudes, 98% of the clientele was dressed. I felt intimidated by being naked (at a nudist resort) so I returned to my room and dressed. Same with the restaurant and bar. Perhaps under Mr. Forier's ownership I can return and fulfill my goal.

[Big-Thinker]

I visited Paradise Lakes a couple years ago, not realizing it wasn't quite my type of resort, but it did satisfy some of my curisity about how the commercialization of nudism could work (or not work). I had a similar experience as Al... I thought I'd check out the bar/dance and actually felt embarrassed because 90% or more were clothed to some degree. Maybe I'm a purist, but that some seems weird to me. If I had a resort, I'd make it clear that nude is the appropriate attire anywhere within the resort. I'm not so sure a bar and dance is a good thing at a resort anyway, at least if people don't feel safe enough to be nude there.

I do think it's good that the place was bought by a nudist.

[Al Bundy]

Mr. Kenner, just wanted to say thanks for the inside information you post here on the forum. You answer a lot of questions we have and inform us of changes in the works. We appreciate your input.

I am sorry to hear of the trend to clothing optional versus nude. I agree that it is most likely a business decision as more people would visit venues where they were allowed to be clothed than being required to be nude.

It has been at least 4 years since I visited Paradise Lakes and I must have missed the sign regarding dancing. Some of the clothing worn in L'Attitudes was a little on the questionable side in my opinion. I guess it is personal preference but I feel complete nudity is more appropiate than see thru clothing with holes cut out for exposure of the breasts and genitals. I'm just a old fashion guy I guess.

When I visited PL I took the shuttle from the Tampa Airport so I was stranded at the resort. I was very happy that they had a restaurant with excellent food and the night club to provide activities in the evening. I could only soak in the hot tubs and swim in the pools so much before looking like a prune. I believe I will rent a car next time I visit so I can check out other venues in the area.

[Nu]

Originally posted by NakedGary:
Although Forier has the same business challenges as Lettelleir had regarding the 26-year-old establishment, there is much hope of a widespread renewal of Paradise Lakes, which has five community associations.



Have never been there, but 5 community associations seems like a lot.
Why not one, composed of the top people, all pulling in the same direction?

[Nu]

Thanks, Richard.
That clarifies a lot.

Best wishes for success for the new ownership.
Perhaps, there will, in time, be even more residential development in the area.

[Big-Thinker]

I just wanted to add, I think a reason many of us were disappointed or confused is that Paradise Lakes caters, at least somewhat, to the "lifestyle"/swinger crowd... it's not a "pure" nudist resort as many of us idealize. I hear lake Como next door is better along those lines. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist or anything - it is what it is, it's certainly not the worst, and outsiders probably don't know about the swinger aspect, so overall, maybe it gives more of a postive than negative impression of nudism to outsiders?

But again, on the bar... the fact that clothing (skimpy, see-through, etc.) is encouraged, shows me that it (at least the bar) is more about sex than nudism.

Some related threads (Paradise Lakes/Lake Como):
http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3400016...830093454#2830093454 (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3400016152/m/4920073454?r=2830093454#2830093454)
http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5600016...870053684#4870053684 (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5600016152/m/4870053684?r=4870053684#4870053684)

[Croydon]

Big Thinker:

There is some truth about Paradise being a little "swingerish".

I have had choices to visit Paradise or Cypress Cove and have chosen Cypress all the time. I have heard from friends, both couples and singles, who have visited Paradise and they told me that Paradise had a swinger/sexual undertone to it. It is not out in the open but you know it is happening. It is especially true at night and at dances.

I have no issues with swinging as I think the activity is harmless if two partners agree to it. That being said, I do have problem with it when a resort indirectly promotes it. Paradise may not advertise itself as swinger's hangout or may not hold events for swingers BUT they do somewhat support it. Unsure of the numbers, but I think swingers make a good chunk of their visitors and they do not wish to upset them.

When I visit a resort, I just want to relax, meet people, and have fun. I don't want that "sexual cloud" over my head.

Richard, you may be right about the nude only policy being changed to clothing optional. Believe it or not, many swingers are NOT nudist and do not feel comfortable with public nudity. Being nude and wearing sexy and revealing outfit are two different things.

I do hope that the new owner of Paradise will make some changes and bring the business back to "true nudism". I would like to visit Paradise as it looks like a great resort.

[DenitaLC]

On the other hand, there is increasing evidence, including an email I got from the Marketing Manager, that Caliente is moving more specifically towards trying to attract the swinging customers. They're currently losing around $2M/year, but I suspect a move in that direction will cause them to lose more money (especially if AANR drops them, which I assume will happen) and will be short-lived.
Ignored post by Richard Kenner posted August 13, 2007 09:07 AM Show Post

I agree with your thoughts on Caliente. The redesign of their websites sends a much more "sexual" message to those viewing it. I'm not impressed by this change and fear the swinger's dollar is becoming more attractive to management than providing a naturists' haven.

We've scratched Caliente off our list of resorts to return to.

[DoctorSurferDude]

Letteleir is not a nudist....that has always been a problem since a non-nudist would see $$$ in place of values. Paradise Lakes has had a history of swinger infections and the blame is easy to see if you look at their event calendar....simple fact is, "sex sells" and it sells better than family values, so if you were a non-nudist and not loyal to the cause, then it would be the obvious choice to compromise values in order to earn an extra buck.

I had high hopes for Caliente when they first opened their doors. I remember going there when they didn't even have a main office and the houses were still just blank lots. Now it's grown, and unfortunately the owner is also a non-nudist and growing a successful business....unfortunately it didn't take me long to notice that the pattern was following in the footsteps of a Paradise Lakes history.

I'm glad to know that an actual nudist will now own Paradise Lakes. But people are people and money is money. What I'm curious to see is whether or not Mr. Forier will choose nudist values over an easy buck.

Somebody on here needs to win the lottery and do it right from the ground up.

[Al Bundy]

I did not observe any swinger activity at Paradise Lakes when I was there about 4 years ago. Of course I was alone and most likely not a prospect. The fact is that security was very observant during the evening hours and did not allow any physical contact at all. I personally do not see anything wrong with couples holding hands or having their arms around each other or even a kiss. I felt security was taking it a little too far, but they were just doing what management paid them to do.

[Kenv]

Hello
What's the latest report on happenings at Paradise Lakes. My girlfriend and I are planning a trip for Oct. We have been going to Cypress Cove, (our favorite so far), and would like to go back to PL or Caliente. We stopped going there because of the nighttime activities. We consider ourselves nudists and prefer to be nude all or most of the time.

We were told to try Lake Como, which we want to visit, but how are the accomidations?

Anyone have info?

Thanks

[BackpackerBrian]

Hi Kenv - the accommodations at Como are old, but very cool. These are retro bungalow-style hotel rooms. I stayed there a week and was very happy with the room.

You will LOVE the Butt Hut!!! Make sure you play darts in the daily dart tournament http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

When it comes to the frienliness of the people, Como rocks! It isnt the silicone and beauty contest of PL or Caliente. If only they had water volleyball . . .

[Kenv]

Thanks for the info. I think we'll try it.

[Bryan and Jen]

We are regular visitors of Paradise lakes and Cypress Cove. We just recently spent a whole week and Paraidse. We did not experience any wild activities at night there. we both love to dance and enjoy ourselves. I was nude the entire time. Talking with longtime Paradise members, they are thrilled with the new ownership. he owns a condo there himself. There have been imporvments especially in the Lakeside area. The word is true that Caliente is marketing themselves to the swingers. they are not going with AANR anymore. They market themselves on a local sports radio station in Tampa. the comercials sound like a bar promoting the bands they have coming and the drink specials. If anyone noticed in the September AANR Bulletin, caliente no longer has their full page ad there. Also we were told that the losses the report has will be passed on to the property owners who bought there. We were told by a former employee that they hit all the homeowners each with a $3000 accesment, and that they will be charged to make up for losses. I don't know how much is true, but from hearing the ad's and the opinions of others in Pasco county, I have a feeling it is true. people who party and swing tend to spend more money than the traditional nudists. traditonal nudist enjoy relaxation, not party time every night of the week.

[DenitaLC]

Originally posted by Bryan and Jen:
We are regular visitors of Paradise lakes and Cypress Cove. We just recently spent a whole week and Paraidse. We did not experience any wild activities at night there. we both love to dance and enjoy ourselves. I was nude the entire time. Talking with longtime Paradise members, they are thrilled with the new ownership. he owns a condo there himself. There have been imporvments especially in the Lakeside area. The word is true that Caliente is marketing themselves to the swingers. they are not going with AANR anymore. They market themselves on a local sports radio station in Tampa. the comercials sound like a bar promoting the bands they have coming and the drink specials. If anyone noticed in the September AANR Bulletin, caliente no longer has their full page ad there. Also we were told that the losses the report has will be passed on to the property owners who bought there. We were told by a former employee that they hit all the homeowners each with a $3000 accesment, and that they will be charged to make up for losses. I don't know how much is true, but from hearing the ad's and the opinions of others in Pasco county, I have a feeling it is true. people who party and swing tend to spend more money than the traditional nudists. traditonal nudist enjoy relaxation, not party time every night of the week.

Thanks for the report guys! It's nice to hear from someone local with a first hand experience! Good for PL! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

[Wcstflyer]

[There are enough topics on this thread to shoot verbal buckshot in a variety of directions.

Paradise Lakes: When my wife and I last visited the resort it looked peaceful and tranquil enough on the surface. The Lakeside condos and Phase 1 building A had been repainted in colors of Sienna and wheat.. More surprisingly, grass had been planted at the foot of building A (near the tennis courts) where for years the ground had looked like something out of Sub-Saharan Africa. All improvements begin with a first step and it's obvious John Forier intends to improve the visual look of the resort. It's the other changes that have some people up in arms and others pragmatically pleased.

That day we spoke with a friendly middle-aged single man who had just paid for a new full membership, and was simply terrified that he would encure the wrath of Forier and get thrown out. This was a fellow for whom $500 was a great deal of money to pay for a nudist membership and we felt a little sympathy for his plight (if puzzled.) According to him, anyone deemed not nudist enough or appearing to not fit in was identified by Forier and sent packing "by John Forier's Gestapo security guards." We felt it was hyperbole at the time but one nudist group moderator named Mike has recieved numerous similar complaints so it appears Forier, who is 57 and single himself, has it in for singles. Moreover, Paradise Lakes has instituted a new no refund policy, thus anyone tossed out will not get his membership returned. Is this what they mean by "it's a great day in Paradise?"

Caliente Resort: Caliente had one of the longest gestation periods of any resort in recent memory. In 1996 if anyone wanted to know where the resort was, it consisted of a guy named Max in a canoe with a woman waving from an unidentified pond in Florida. Thanks to Carl Anderson, Bill Baldwin, Chuck Foster and others, the money was raised privately and Caliente Resort in March, 2004 became the gold standard in the U.S. for nudist resorts. If any destination nudist resort can make the marketing adjustments to put the resort portion in the black they can.

At the risk of making sweeping generalities, people buying into Caliente fell into distinct catagories. At the higher end of the Bell Curve were Villa and single-family dwelling owners who were affluent and educated with impressive portfolios; people who are familiar with real estate transactions, or in a worst case scenario have access to a magna *** laude in contract law at the touch of a button. These people are secure in their investments and are in the nudist community for the long haul. Moving a tad down there were the condo flippers of 2004-2005 some of who had about 2 cents worth of equity and wanted to score a bundle in real estate. At one time I counted twenty-six units for sale, a number confirmed by Dan Nemeth of the Caliente Condo Association. A few of these people are suffering Tylonol headaches now that their ARM's have syrocketed. Still, surprisingly few bankruptcy filings to date. Who are suffering the most and where the most complaints occur are in the Casitas, where the screams of bait and switch still resonate (do a Google news search.) A lot of these people scraped up enough pennies to purchase at Caliente; being hit with any cost increase -for any reason- can tip the housing scale between living at the resort or moving out.

Whatever nudist resort you choose they seem to take a page out of the old TV show Peyton place for high drama and intrigue. :rolleyes:

[Wcstflyer]

O.K. Richard, you are correct. The condos at Paradise there are under PLCA control (but grant me poetic license.) I still believe John Forier sent a worker down to the local Sherwin-Williams store to fetch some paint. And it makes for a better visual image. In the broader picture you bring up a good subject. Off the top of my head Paradise Lakes has separate associations for the private homes, the various condominium phases and the mobile home park. Then there is John Forier who purchased the clubhouse/resort portion of Paradise Lakes. There are going to be a lot of strong personalities wanting input as to the future direction of the resort. Sound familiar? Everyone should take a deep breath and relax.

Ten years or more years ago I remember hearing that the sky was about to fall. Why? Fred Bischoff put a fabulous numbers cruncher in as general manager who was exactly the wrong man for the position. Poor George Sporn was not a nudist and as far as anyone could determine was not hetero/gay/bi or a pre-op, post-op transexual. He was an entity that existed in a adding machine under a perpetual state of stress. When he walked his eyes gazed toward the ground beneath him or at a focal point somewhere past the trees over by Lake Como. Thankfully, after a period of time Bischoff sent him down to the Dominican Republic and a dandy new place he just found (now called Caliente Caribe.)

To one and all I submit: Did the Sun rise in the East and are you vibrant, alive and well? Check! Everything else pales in importance, especially the ebb and flow of nudist resorts.

[Nudeinbama]

I've been there before, one of the few we visited, enjoyed it and hope to someday return to a this nice resort again.
nudeinbama:)

[boatsteve]

O.K. Richard, you are correct. The condos at Paradise there are under PLCA control (but grant me poetic license.) I still believe John Forier sent a worker down to the local Sherwin-Williams store to fetch some paint. And it makes for a better visual image. In the broader picture you bring up a good subject. Off the top of my head Paradise Lakes has separate associations for the private homes, the various condominium phases and the mobile home park. Then there is John Forier who purchased the clubhouse/resort portion of Paradise Lakes. There are going to be a lot of strong personalities wanting input as to the future direction of the resort. Sound familiar? Everyone should take a deep breath and relax.



I spend winters down in that area and am familiar with the various singles groups in the area and they are posting quite a nasty picture of Paradise at the moment. It seems the management is using trumped up charges on the singles to have them removed, claims of inappropriate conduct being made when the person in question wasn't even on the property. And it's not limited to singles. Anyone John doesn't feel is nudist enough is made to leave with no reimbursement of membership money. The good news is that it appears that John hasn't been making his payments to Lettlier and he might lose the place. That is what most in this area are hoping for.

Oh, and most condos are privately owned and managed at Paradise. Just the ones around the pool are not.

As for Caliente, they have been sponsoring swing parties once a month and have links on their site to the local swing site where there are ads for the next party which claim "F%&k like a porn star" is the theme. There was also a huge banner advertising those parties until it was finally taken down today. Caliente has purposely dropped their AANR Bulletin ad and is now listed on many swing websites. They have also dropped their 100% AANR policy. There are truly more swingers than nudists on any given weekend now.

One prominent AANR Florida member and his wife observed people having sex in the pool during daylight hours with children in the area and it was ignored when security was called. They were also refused a refund on their membership but I don't think that fight is over.

At the moment many influential AANR members (including several club owners) are calling on AANR to stop affiliating with Caliente. AANR claims they are "investigating" which could mean just about anything from past experience.

Meanwhile the Naturist Society has dropped Caliente from affiliation because of their recent turn towards marketing to swingers (since the new manager took over). Everyone is waiting to see if AANR has enough gonads to do the same.

[boatsteve]

The decision to make a huge move towards the swingers was made by the new manager and I really don't think it's negotiable from what I know. The Caliente website has actually linked to the website advertising the swing parties. They have intentionally moved away from AANR in a few ways. I can't see them negotiating when they are happy with where they are heading.

And if you think Paradise's move isn't aimed at single men, all you need do is be there to see that it's almost exclusively couples now. It's very different than the ratios were just a few months ago. I believe the singles who said they were made to leave Paradise because of trumped up charges. It's not just one or two who had it happen to them.

[boatsteve]

I think I'd probably try the same thing if I was at the top of decision making at Caliente. I don't blame them at all, it's a business. However, AANR has had at least a couple weeks to "investigate" and have not removed Caliente from their website. I do blame AANR for ducking their responsibilities by claiming to be family oriented and wholesome while at the same time listing a known adult resort.