Nudism and gawking

[kelly99]

While living in Vancouver in the 80's, I frequently visited Wreck Beach(clothing op public beach). I found it normal to look and be looked at without gawking. Including the genital area. But in the nudist camps I've been to, I find it hypocritical NOT to look at the person as a whole being. There are people who look up at the birds, others down at the ground etc. They even bar sunglasses(no peeking). So, to repeat--without gawking--is it hypocritical?
Opinions?

[kelly99]

While living in Vancouver in the 80's, I frequently visited Wreck Beach(clothing op public beach). I found it normal to look and be looked at without gawking. Including the genital area. But in the nudist camps I've been to, I find it hypocritical NOT to look at the person as a whole being. There are people who look up at the birds, others down at the ground etc. They even bar sunglasses(no peeking). So, to repeat--without gawking--is it hypocritical?
Opinions?

[aunaturelone]

I suspect the folks are trying hard to look like they are NOT gawking and so fail to look at all. It isn't hypocrisy, it is institutional insecurity.

I've never encountered this myself. OTOH I've met women who were initially convinced that every male there was staring at them, when that wasn't the case at all. (Classic reaction of a younger first time nudist female who hasn't been properly prepped for the experience and isn't with a trusted companion.)

Takes a long time to unlearn this. Many aren't willing to take the time and give up on naturism prematurely.

[Lilwilly]

I would much rather people looked than avoided looking. If they look I am not embarassed but if they don't, that signals they are uncomfortable with my nudity, and that in turn makes me uncomfortable. I understand some people feeling everyone is looking at them, but that is often just a symptom of not being comfortable with their body.

[NudeAl]

I think a casual glance is normal. I agree that it is normal to look at the whole person.

That being said I have witnessed some inappropriate lingering looks at beaches. When someone purposely walks to with in a few feet of someone else checking them out it is annoying if not down right rude. This is especially crude when it is done to a lone female or worse to set up right next to them and looking at them whole time. I know these are not real naturists. It is common at a nude beach but I have never seen this behavior at a club or resort.

[Chief78CJ7]

I agree with you LilWilly.. I hadn't thought about it much, but I don't mind people looking at me.

But really, things should be similar to when you clothed.. sometimes you check someone out, sometimes you don't, but don't be rude about it. But sometimes you want the other person notice you checking them out so they know you're intersted, etc, etc, etc...

[Bob S.]

Tell someone not to think of a bear for the next minute. What will they think of, A Bear!

The same goes for telling someone not to look at a certain part of the body. Well, where do you think their eyes are going to go? Looking and staring are different. We even had a discussion about this a while ago. Looking at someone else will not make them uncomfortable. Gawking at them will. When talking to someone else, act like you usually do when you talk to someone who is wearing clothes. Eye contact for a prolonged time is impossible for most people.

Acting naturally is the best thing.

Bob S.

[AustinPowers]

Im glad to see a woman being ok with a guy looking at her. It's dumb to act like you dont want to look when youre more inclined to. When a person is willing to be naked in whatever venue, its like saying this is who I am, accept me. By avoiding eye contact, even towards the whole person, it seems to me youre saying you dont.

[Duneman]

NudeAl mentioned that he found staring to be more of a problem on nude beaches, but I have found it is the opposite!?

On our local unofficial c/o beach, we typically only get 25 to 30 people a day, and we know most of those people so maybe that's why we don't get too much gawking.

Even most of the "tourists" we get don't stare.

But over the Winter months, my Wife & I often go with another couple to a nearby Naturist Resort, and we regularly get gawkers there believe it or not.

Single guys usually. One guy in the restaurant was staring (& grinning) so bad that we complained to the mgt! They spoke to him & he left. Apparently he was a visitor they hadn't seen before.......

But I have rarely experienced that kind of blatant staring on the beach.

Just lucky I guess

[NudeAl]

That is a twist.

I think it has to do with the screening process. The club I go to makes an effort to keep out the peepers. But a rule against wearing sunglasses? Come on! I don't think they discriminate against single males but those are the most likely offenders. Now some of them may not know better I think the management would give them the a second chance if they were just acting out of ignorence.

At the beach we get every variety of person under the sun. Some of them just don't get it, or have there own reasons for being there. It is impossible to regulate who will go to a public nude beach. At the beach a group of regulars tries to keep order but they don't go everyday and on the week days it can be dangerous for a single female to go there by herself. Sad but true, we try to educate but if that is difficult we just end up running them off or calling over a lifeguard or a park ranger.

[Naturist Mark]

It is unnatural not to look at people. You do it all the time when clothed, do you think it is natural to not do it when nude? Gawking is another matter, it is not the same at 'looking'.

Here's what we say about it in our introductory letter for one of the groups I belong to:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is OK to look at people, but don't gawk. Gawking is roughly defined as a prolonged gaze which produces discomfort. Look people in the eye when you meet them. Soon enough their nudity will be unremarkable to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>-Mark

[aunaturelone]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is common at a nude beach... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not even slightly less common on the textile beach. Maybe even more common, esp. on one with pretty girls.

Two things cause gawking. One is novelty and the other is thoughtlessness. Girls watching is a fine art for those of us who take the feelings of the watched person into consideration.

[aunaturelone]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wife & I often go with another couple to a nearby Naturist Resort, and we regularly get gawkers there believe it or not.

Single guys usually. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And some people wonder why single man have a harder time being accepted at the resorts. It only take a few of these occurances and single guys become personna non grata. A few bad apples scare off the newbies, especially female newbies, and the entire barrel gets discarded.

What I would like to know is: How can anyone tell that a man who is alone is single? Even if he says he is, he could be lying. Some places won't let a married man in alone, but they will let a single man in. Maybe he's married and there alone, or maybe he lied about his marital status. Maybe he removed his ring hoping to "score" and didn't want the ring to hamper his chances. I met a man at the resort where I go who was married. He was on his way out because he had failed at his reasom for being there. He told me he was there alone, and his wife didn't know and wouldn't approve since she wasn't a nudist. He also told me that he had tried to talk a woman there into renting a cabin with him for the night, and I'm sure it wasn't for conversation.

[RIVERRAT]

the only beach close to where I live is a very long section of beach, the first mile or so is for regular clothed beach goers, but beyond that is the section called the natural beach, about a mile and a half beach where nude swimmers and sunbathers are sort of accepted, This is where I go to get my all over tan. One in ten of us are nude, so this is where the site seers come to check out the nudes. I enjoy this beach, the rangers turn there heads and don't much bother us, but the word gawker takes on a new meaning at my beach. We're more like a side show.I guess were stuck with what were delt. Some of these people knowing they'll see nude sunbathers, have the nerve to complain to the authorites. Go figure.

[Elery]

OK really old joke time: A lady calls the cops to complain there is a male next door neighbor exposing himself to her all the time. Cop comes to answer call. Asks lady where offender is. She takes him to a window and points out a house two blocks away. He walks in front of that window every single day naked as can be she tells the cop. Gee lady, I can barely see the window much less what may be in it at this distance. Oh, says the lady. You have to use these binoculars...sigh.

[Elery]

Bad jokes aside, if I ever reach a point where I don't look at other people's bodies with the appreciation they deserve then I'll just pack it in and quit living at all. I try not to be rude and stare but when seeing the Grand Canyon for the first (or the hundreth time) it's hard not to "gawk". And that is just about where I rate the miracle that is the human form on my aesthetic scale. The curve of a breast or buttock or muscle under the skin of an arm or leg wherever, endlessly fascinating, and the added factor of that form being the outer aspect of a human being, each an entire other universe, makes our fellows the most wonderous of studies in beauty. As an "artist" and "photographer" as some have been kind enough to label me I am blessed in being able to enjoy the human form from many viewpoints, not the least of but surely not the most important of, in sexual and sensual ways. To our loss, that is the only aspect that our society seems to be aware of. I look at someone I haven't seen before and am deeply aware that that one glance may be the only one I'll ever get into that "universe". But I surely don't want to intrude but also don't want to "peek" so I've hopefully developed the look but don't offend. The fact that most of my "study" seem to be greeted with a smile is hopeful...

[RIVERRAT]

Elery, you are very poetic in you're enlightment of how we veiw each other nude or textiled, you are right, I love being nude, naked, clothing optional what ever, Iam a bit of an exebitionist because I like that others look at me, But to look at someone who to you is attractive or to look becuase they are unattractive is one thing, but as I mentioned in my previous message, to look at someone like they are a side show or a two headed lizard, thats the way I feel when some people veiw me on the beach. I won't stop going there because for now it's my only close by nudist escape, but maybe now you understand the expression gawking.

[Snoboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lilwilly:
I would much rather people looked than avoided looking. If they look I am not embarassed but if they don't, that signals they are uncomfortable with my nudity, and that in turn makes me uncomfortable. I understand some people feeling everyone is looking at them, but that is often just a symptom of not being comfortable with their body. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Snoboy]

OOOOPs. Lilwilly, I agree with your assessment. I would much prefer individuals to take a long look at me rather than turn away from me as if shunning me because of my nudity. I am proud of my body and don't care who looks at it. It's the one the good Lord gave me and I am happy "in the skin I am in." If people would learn to accept people as they are we could reduce a lot of the stress in our lives. So get naked, look if you must but be respectful of others. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RIVERRAT]

snoboy, you are right, I guess I took this issue a bit to far, I have said Iam a bit of an exebitionist, I like that they look at me, I guess what I meant was, look at me as someone naked not as a side show freak, I love being naked and love being naked in public, I guess I should except the stares from the ones who look at me as an odity and be greatful for the ones who wish they were me.

[Gary Naturist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snoboy:
I would much prefer individuals to take a long look at me rather than turn away from me as if shunning me because of my nudity. I am proud of my body and don't care who looks at it. It's the one the good Lord gave me and I am happy "in the skin I am in." If people would learn to accept people as they are we could reduce a lot of the stress in our lives. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Snoboy, I agree completely with the above.

I think that a major reason for non-nudists looking away is that they don't know how to look at a nude person. If asked, here's the advice I would give:

"You don't normally see naked people in public, so it's OK to be curious and to look (briefly) at the body parts that you don't normally see. Nudists are comfortable with their whole body, so don't mind.

"Once your curiousity is satisfied, you should look at the person exactly as you would if he/she were clothed. If that doesn't work for you, look the person in the eye rather than not look at him/her."

Personally, I don't have a problem with gawkers, in terms of them looking at me, up to the point at which it becomes harassment or a threat.

They may be doing so out of some form of curiousity -- maybe haven't seen many naked people, or naked people in public.

Or maybe it's a turnon for them, just like seeing someone in a bikini is a turnon for others. If this is the case, I still don't have a problem as long as the person isn't harassing or threatening me.

My reasons are that, personally, I don't think of any of my body parts as needing to be kept from view AND I am extremely tolerant of others, their thoughts and behaviors (subject to limits re harassment or threats).

Two of my major beliefs:
1. Whatever turns your crank.
2. Live and let live.

But I recognize that my personal views are toward the extreme end of tolerance.

Gary

[sailorman72]

I don't know how closely this relates to the topic but it is sort of amusing. A few years ago I talked my wife into visiting a CO resort in the Caribbean. At 46 and 43, we were just about the youngest couple there. The majority of folks seemed to be 60+ but in really good shape. One day we were walking by the pool and two of the ladies who were definitely mid-60's spoke to us and struck up a conversation. I was a little surprised by the lack of eye contact of the ladies. They were sitting in chairs while we were standing. One of the ladies in particular spent a great deal more time looking below my waist than at my face. At first I was amused, but after a while became a little self-conscious. Even though I still maintain a pretty good military fitness, I'm just an average guy of average proportions so the experience sort of left me shaking my head. My wife laughed about it later and said she was not going to let me out of her sight with all those predators. Like I said before, I'm not sure how this relates, but seems like the ladies like to look too.

[Buzzer]

Even though I've only been naked with my wives and children, I notice that I have been more aware of their facial expressions as they talk. Maybe others have experienced the same.

[shãybare]

When I had first got into nudism so many years ago I don't like to think about, my family and friends initially had sorta embarrassed or uncomfortable looks and didn't seem to dnow where to look. It wasn't too long, however, that they began to look at me no different than they looked at textiles. Their faces were relaxed as if they weren't even aware of my nudeness.

[canude]

This past summer I had my first experience of social nudity. I spent a weekend at Wreck Beach with my wife. I had no problem getting naked on the beach, but being shy to start with, I did find it hard talking to people and not knowing where to look. I was trying not to gawk, but it felt very awkward not looking at someone while talking to them. I found that after about two hours, I had totally got used to everyone being naked. When I approached anyone I would just give them an once-over look out of curiosity sat ?Hi?, and keep going. I also found myself watching people playing sports without feeling I was gawking at them. I can?t wait until next summer; hopefully I can spend a lot more time at Wreck Beach. With a foot of snow outside my door at the moment, it will be a while before I go outside without clothes.

When I joined a nudist club for the first time. I didn't get nude the day I joined. I have no idea why I didn't other than being embarrassed. I sat there talking with one of the nude ladies and feeling embarrassed. I didn't know where to look and was embarrassed to look at her. That was in March of 2001. In May of that year when it finally got warm enough, I went there and enjoyed a day of being nude with others for the first time. I had been nude with a woman before, but this was an entirely different experience. For one thing we were outdoors.

Congratulations, Canude, on your first experience. After my first time at age 55, I still wonder why I waited so long.

[RIVERRAT]

I guess if I was a non nudist walking down a beach weither I knew I would see naked people I guess I would look not gawk, forgive me for being looked at not gawked, I guess for some a glance or look in curiosity is not a gawk, just curiosity, I love being nude and at my beach, I am the odity I guess if some stare I should expect that, I have said I am a bit of an exabitionist, so why do I care, the question was gawk which many do where I go, I guess so what, I shouldn't blame them who stare. nough said.

[BunzFan]

I don't know why so many nudists are concerned whether someone looks or not. If I am naked in
your presence, in a place where it is accepted,
particularly -- then I have given you the freedom
to view what is there to be seen. If I didn't want
you to look, that's what shorts are for. I have
been the only nude in a group of friends who did
not object, and who were entertained by it, and it
didn't make me uncomfortable.

[Nude in the North]

Here is how I would define a Gawker.

Someone who loiters at the edge of the beach ,or in a place where they need binoculars to get "a better look".

Someone who either Clothed or Nude wanders the beach for the sole purpose of "Checking people out".

Gawking isn't about What someone is looking at, or even for how long they look at it.
It's about the Mindset of the person.
If they are looking for some sort of thrill of seeing naked people, they are gawking.
Anyone that goes out of their way to find a nude beach just so they can see some naked people is a Gawker.

As a Nudist I couldn't care less if people see me nude. If they want to satisfy their curiosity that's fine with me. I see nothing wrong with someone looking at nude bodies. Espically people that are not accustomed to seeing nudity.
But when their intent is more sinister than simple curiosity they become Gawkers.

Steve

[BunzFan]

Yes. Now that IS gawking, I agree, if one goes out of the way to find nude-use areas to stare at the genitalia of others, such as with binoculars,
when they have no interest in ever trying nudity themselves, or socializing with those who do.
But I have no problem, really, with a curious person who may be interested, just not bold enough or comfortable enough yet, to try it. Most of us have been there before.

Sometimes, someone not used to nudity can find it
amazing that you or I can be quite comfortable without being covered. It is quite natural that they may be amused and amazed at the same time, and natural that they look at those parts they are not used to seeing so freely exposed.

What I wrote before was regarding being nude in presence of other nudes, or even accepting non-nudes who don't mind socializing with nudes. If such a one is comfortable looking at my penis for
more than the brief "polite glance", so called,
then let them look. That's what I meant by saying
that I have already given you the right to look if I am naked. I can't see where I have the right
to walk around nude in front of you, while saying
"Hey, don't be looking!"

[Trailscout]

If someone standing nearby is staring at you, that is harassment. Even dogs perceive that as aggression and will respond in kind.

Many people do not want to be stared down, up close or with binoculars. Nude in the North can only speak for himself when he says that he does not mind.

Traveling with a non-landed nudist club to a beach can make for a more pleasant visit. A few burley guys can confront gawkers and run them off or call law enforcement if necessary.

Gawkers are one of the biggest enemies of nude beach recreation, but they can be driven off if we meet them in numbers and cooperate with local police.

[shãybare]

Although, I agree that it doesn't matter to me to be looked at, Trailscout is right that gawkers should be confronted by at least a couple of guys because the gawkers are being very rude. They disregard polite manners and should be asked to leave. Women are the ones that are the most to take offense and are discouraged to participate in nude activities. While it is true that women are gawked at even when clothed, they feel much more vulnerable when nude.

[BunzFan]

Maybe this story fits this thread (?) I'll post it here, anyway.
Some years ago, on a stretch of beach, far enough down the beach from all the other beach-goers that day, a man chose to sun himself nude. No one was close enough, except me, to notice this and I chose to go away and not disturb his solitude. The next nearest people were much too far from him to even notice he was there, not to mention know whether he was clothed or nude. He was no threat or bother to anyone, and had gone to an effort to keep away from others who might have objected.
Soon enough, here came the beach patrol on ATVs. Someone had spotted him from a house by using a telescope, and apparently called in a complaint.
They made him dress and leave the beach.

He couldn't have been seen by them without the scope, and he wasn't bothering anyone. He should have been left alone. There were several people on the deck of that house when I disappointedly left the beach, a little angry at what I had seen happen. I don't know for sure, but I would almost place a bet that every one of them had a turn at the spy-glass while they filed their complaint.

I wonder if Stu will weigh in with an opinion on this one? By the way, Stu, I don't disagree with most of your input here, and I'm glad you post in the forum. Nudity should not be thrust in everyone's face in just any and every place, but should it have to be out of spy-glass range?!

Next we'll hear about someone who saw someone sunbathing nude when they looked out their airplane window with binoculars, and they called the police on their cell phone from the airplane!

[Nude in the North]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Many people do not want to be stared down, up close or with binoculars. Nude in the North can only speak for himself when he says that he does not mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess I didn't make myself clear enough.
I never said I liked or would even put up with gawkers. I was giving my definition of what I consider a gawker.
I said if people want to LOOK I don't mind. If they carry it to the level where I consider them Gawkers I would certainly do what I could to discourage them from continuing their behavior.

Maybe i'm misreading your reply , but it seems to me that you are under the impression that I enjoy perverts wandering around staring at me.

Steve

[johny]

RE:
""""Next we'll hear about someone who saw someone sunbathing nude when they looked out their airplane window with binoculars""""

Once I had been in the excoursion to meteorologic head office. There the main meteocomputer was translating current satellite picture from 5000 km afar Italy seacoast. And when the operator turned zoom to maximum, we clearly realized the crowd of people on the beach. Yet resolution was bit too short to recognize the costumes or lack of them, but each human was seen as small dot at the screen.

So I quess the gymnofobians may organize American NASA to improve the resolution capacity and start a total spionage-war against us from the space. They should be so happy with such, because the meaning of the term "moral" they feel somehow quite different (and opposite) way as feel we.

My principles says that greatest shame and immorality is to spionage or gawking, but those "high morale defenders" seems think the shame is that what I think is honor, be natural.

[davy]

It seems to me that as long as a person is only looking, that should be o.k. Rude behavior (off-color comments, etc.) , unwanted approaches, harassment of any sort, these should not be tolerated, but just looking? I figure that if I am going to go to a nude beach I must expect people to look me over. And, yes, I will often walk the length of the beach to "check everybody out". I always smile at them and say hi if they notice, or just pass by if they don't. Most people simply return the smile or "hi" and thats that. No one has ever complained, and I certainly don't consider that "gawking", but it might fall under someone's (overly narrow in my opinion) definition. I know there are trouble makers on nude beaches occasionally, and I agree they should be removed. But the rest of us should lighten up a bit about who does and doesn't see us, and not complain any time someone "looks us over".