Live Earth

[Naturist Mark]

You can watch the concerts around the clock on MSN LINK (http://liveearth.msn.com).

It has already started in Australia as I post this - soon in Japan.

-Mark

http://liveearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/le_final_print.jpg

[Naturist Mark]

http://z.about.com/d/top40/1/0/l/S/liveearth.jpg ('http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceData/p1-7/en-us/x.htm?sh=LiveEarthLive&g=9f240073-cf25-4402-bbb0-bd77c597c4ab&fg=blog')

Live Earth on the Washington Mall just kicked off with Trisha Yearwood and Garth Brooks playing Garth's "We Shall Be Free".

Can't think of a better commencement song (too bad they didn't have a sound check first).

1993 video montage (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=935923494) of We Shall Be Free

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
You can watch the concerts around the clock on MSN LINK (http://liveearth.msn.com).

It has already started in Australia as I post this - soon in Japan.
-Mark


What is the "carbon footprint" of the Live Earth concerts? How many people would have to give up their life style to compensate for the so-called Live Earth concert?

More of the self serving "Do as I say, not as I do" arrogance of the politicaly motivated ignorant.

Blessings

Bob

[Naturist Mark]

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
What is the "carbon footprint" of the Live Earth concerts? How many people would have to give up their life style to compensate for the so-called Live Earth concert?

More of the self serving "Do as I say, not as I do" arrogance of the politicaly motivated ignorant.

Why didn't you look for the answer to your question? And why did you answer it yourself without finding the facts?

What is another word for Pre Judgement? (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?prejud03.wav)

The Live Earth Concerts are designed to minimize their carbon footprint at every step, and they will be using carbon offsets to compensate for the unavoidable. PriceWaterhouseCoopers (http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2193536/pwc-audit-live-earth-carbon) will be doing a Carbon Audit to keep them honest.

One of the major educational points of Live Earth is that no has to 'give up their lifestyle' or 'lower their standard of living' in order to reduce their carbon footprint.

Now, go educate yourself.

LIVE EARTH - GREEN EVENT GUIDELINES (http://www.liveearth.org/green_policy.php)

Live Earth gigs gauged for carbon footprint (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19309672/)

Calculate your Carbon Profile (http://www.earthlab.com/carbonProfile/LiveEarth.htm?ver=10)

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
The Live Earth Concerts are designed to minimize their carbon footprint at every step, and they will be using carbon offsets to compensate for the unavoidable.

So called "carbon offsets" are fictional nonsense, but if that turns you on Mark, go for it.

While Algore flies around the world in his private jet, the rest of us are admonished to waste our lives in uncomfortable buses and other public transportation that doesn't go where we want to go or when. "Do as I say, not as I do." Left wing political nonsense.

Blessings

Bob

[Naturist Mark]

So called "carbon offsets" are fictional nonsense, but if that turns you on Mark, go for it.
LOL

Reminds me of Baghdad Bob. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Saeed_al-Sahhaf#During_the_Iraq_war)

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So called "carbon offsets" are fictional nonsense, but if that turns you on Mark, go for it.
LOL

Reminds me of Baghdad Bob. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Saeed_al-Sahhaf#During_the_Iraq_war) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, it does at that. The fictional "carbon offsets" and in the whole "global warming" fraud is similar to the kind of political nonsense that "Baghdad Bob" liked to turn out.

Blessings

Bob

[Naturist Mark]

LOL, it does at that. The fictional "carbon offsets" and in the whole "global warming" fraud is similar to the kind of political nonsense that "Baghdad Bob" liked to turn out.
Believing Carbon Offsets are fictional is kind of like believing 'left turn on red' is fictional. But who says we have to share the same reality.

Yusuf (Cat Stevens) is playing in Germany right now. Wonderful

[Naturist Mark]

OMG! Melissa Etheridge is tearing the place up. You'll probably see that performance repeated on the network program tonight (nope - must have been too political). See MSN Video. (http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceData/p1-7/us/x.htm?sh=LiveEarth&g=f1ea64d9-c190-466c-a19a-f77077046d87,b3dafede-d5d5-48a1-b115-d7d94bdf60ef,6efa8469-5420-4696-8e66-e6e1b055bc68) Wow

[Naturist Mark]

Perhaps the biggest coup of the Live Earth planners was booking the reunion of legendary heavy metal rockers Spinal Tap play MSN Video (http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceData/p1-7/us/x.htm?sh=LiveEarth&g=646c5aa2-e778-457c-bf8f-5ed9a53fa71d,098bfa79-d110-4fb8-9b54-8886b4d93f76,9b4e3552-da39-4076-b10d-cb730bba5ec7,68e78fc7-06e2-46af-9db3-3271356c52c3):

http://entimg.msn.com/i/LiveEarth/venues/uk/UK_SpinalTap1_400.jpg
http://entimg.msn.com/i/LiveEarth/venues/uk/UK_SpinalTapDwarf_400.jpg
http://entimg.msn.com/i/LiveEarth/venues/uk/UK_SpinalTap2_400.jpg

[nifocinphx]

Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
OMG! Melissa Etheridge is tearing the place up. You'll probably see that performance repeated on the network program tonight. Wow
You're right, Mark. According to NBC, http://www.nbc.com/liveearth/ , Melissa Etheridge is scheduled appear on the 3 hour network program tonight, 8 pm Eastern, 7 pm Central.

Also scheduled; Madonna, the Police, Bon Jovi, Sheryl Crow, John Mayer, Kelly Clarkson, Faith Hill, Fall Out Boy, Enrique Iglesias and the Red Hot Chili Peppers!!!

nifocinphx http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/user.gif

[Naturist Mark]

Unlike Live 8, there is no Pink Floyd reunion for Live Earth, but they do have Roger Waters

[nacktman]

Kewl Music going down world wide!

[Naturist Mark]

Police Reunion!

[NudeAl]

I'm hoping that the message is getting out not getting lost in the shuffle.

I saw the Al Gore documentary on Show Time today for the first time. If even half of the things he stated as scientific fact are true we are going to be paying a high price for ignoring the warnings. It got me thinking of ways to reduce my own carbon foot print.

What with record breaking heatwaves over the western US and flooding over the plains states one might just conclude there is more to this than we have been lead to believe.

[nacktman]

Originally posted by NudeAl:
I'm hoping that the message is getting out not getting lost in the shuffle.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE"> You and me, both. </span>

I saw the Al Gore documentary on Show Time today for the first time. If even half of the things he stated as scientific fact are true we are going to be paying a high price for ignoring the warnings.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE"> Yep, and we'll be paying it soon, too </span>

It got me thinking of ways to reduce my own carbon foot print.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE"> Gotta do some of that myself as should all others. </span>

What with record breaking heatwaves over the western US and flooding over the plains states one might just conclude there is more to this than we have been lead to believe.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE"> Word up! Been a tad warm over the eastern US as well. </span>

Great music and all, but the message is more important.
Thanks, NudeAl for bringing up that point.

[missouriboy]

Here's the comment offered by Bill Bonner in his e-letter "The Daily Reckoning"... "Live Earth," a series of eight simultaneous concerts worldwide developed by Al Gore and meant to raise awareness about global warming, proved a bit of a flop. More than 100 artists performed in the trendy extravaganza on Saturday in New Jersey; London; Johannesburg, South Africa; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Tokyo; Sydney; Shanghai, China; and Hamburg, Germany, but it turned out that TV audiences, especially, were more interested in Princess Di and Harry Potter than in global meltdown. ...just FWIW. I don't know or care anything about heavy-metal concerts.

[BlobbyBob]

I only really tuned in to see The Red Hot Chili Peppers and then Bon Jovi. I already recycle and conserve energy as much as I can, so I didn't need to tune in to hear the message, as I already know and agree.

I made some wallpapers from the Bon Jovi set -

www.blampish.co.uk (http://www.blampish.co.uk) http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

[Naturist Mark]

...just FWIW. I don't know or care anything about heavy-metal concerts.
For what it's worth ... there was very little heavy metal during the concerts.

If you have high speed internet, you can watch any of the acts online and catch some of what you missed: http://liveearth.msn.com/le/video

[Naked Couple]

I hear that since mars is warming also, Algore will be taking his show there too. Wish him well.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Naked Couple:
I hear that since mars is warming also, Algore will be taking his show there too. Wish him well.

So is Uranus warming. I'm sure the cause is CO emissions by human space probes flying by every 10 years or so. What Algore needs is a "Live Uranus" concert. That would cool the place back down. Save Uranus!

Or maybe for the farther out planets Algore could pattern his song and dance numbers after the old "Up With People" concerts.
"Up Uranus," Al.

;-)

Blessings

Bob

[nacktman]

I see where the troglodytes are attempting another thread takeover.

Having your head so far up your own arse you can smell your breath is no way to live , besides how can you even breathe?

[Naturist Mark]

Originally posted by Naked Couple:
I hear that since mars is warming also, Algore will be taking his show there too. Wish him well. Hey, I noticed you consistently misspell Al Gore's name. Perhaps you should add it to your spell check?

As for Mars, it could use some global warming. It used to be much warmer because its CO2 atmosphere was much thicker and able to create enough greenhouse effect to produce temperatures that allow liquid water to flow. Alas with its lack of a magnetosphere the solar wind has caused it to slowly lose atmosphere over the millennia, which along with its lower gravity and other processes has allowed its atmospheric pressure to declined to less than 1% of its former level. Terraforming schemes for Mars depend on global warming through an artificially induced greenhouse effect to create more Earthlike conditions.

Venus on the other hand is a cautionary tale for us. Although slightly smaller than Earth its atmosphere is much thicker - and its runaway greenhouse effect has produced a hell planet far hotter than it should be due to its distance from the Sun. Hot enough to melt lead - 752 degrees F. Venus is believed to have started out as a near twin to Earth, with open skies and oceans.

More Venus and Mars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQjKffxloXc)

-Mark

[nacktman]

Venus is believed to have started out as a near twin to Earth, with open skies and oceans.

There is also a theory that we originated on another world and destroyed it and sought refuge here. The three 'possibilities' for our origins are Venus, Mars and the Asteroid Belt depending on which cataclysmic scenario holds fore at the moment ... greenhouse effect or nuclear self destruction.

There is also an offshoot theory that we have done it all before right here on earth ... and with the Sphinx and structures in the high Andes being in excess of 12,000 years old ... who knows.

If our society and culture imploded tomorrow, within a generation 98% of what "it" was that defined us would be 'lost' and each succeeding generation will remember less until the point we are nothing but a riveting story around the camp and cooking fires of the world's cultures then ... the stages of which would see us as 'gods' for eons after which we would degenerate unto just an odd people, then to a culture of metaphor or disbelief - the story of Atlantis is a prime example of this in our society today and Atlantis was supposed to be in its Hey-Day around 12,000 to 14,000 years ago ... Hummm?!

[BinCo]

Hey Nacktman and Mark!! I agree with you guys on this topic. The wife and I recycle, and try to do other things to reduce our footprint too.

[Boreas]

If this does nothing else but get people talking and then making some changes towards being more responsible then it has been for the good.

I think there has been some hysteria around globla warming lately and I get concerned about the amount of press time it is getting. This is only because I do not want people to think it is actually hysteria and therefore, not something to be taken seriously. We are seeing effects of global warming in my area of the country. I recently had occasion to drive south from here, and the mountain pine beetle damage was staggering. This has been attributed to warming, since we have not had any really cold winters that kill the little buggers off.

It is scary at times. I think we all have room to become more responsible.

[MJ_KC]

I saw an editorial cartoon today that showed the GW in G. W. Bush to stand for Global Warming. Bush was pouring a can of gas on a globe of the earth and getting ready to set it on fire.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
I saw an editorial cartoon today that showed the GW in G. W. Bush to stand for Global Warming. Bush was pouring a can of gas on a globe of the earth and getting ready to set it on fire.

Not surprised. The left wing "global warming" nutters are also the "hate Bush" bunch.

It would be far more productive and responsible if they worked more for cooperative improvements in society.

Blessings

Bob

[Naturist Mark]

The left wing "global warming" nutters are also the "hate Bush" bunch.
Also plants and trees:

http://www.arborday.org/media/graphics/2006_zones.png

Plant Hardiness Zone for most of America has been increased to next warmer zone. Updated Plant Hardiness Zones (http://climate-change.suite101.com/article.cfm/updated_plant_hardiness_zones)

-Mark (formerly in Zone 5)

[Boreas]

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MJ_KC:
I saw an editorial cartoon today that showed the GW in G. W. Bush to stand for Global Warming. Bush was pouring a can of gas on a globe of the earth and getting ready to set it on fire.

Not surprised. The left wing "global warming" nutters are also the "hate Bush" bunch.

It would be far more productive and responsible if they worked more for cooperative improvements in society.

Blessings

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you are helping make more cooperative improvements for society how?

We have seen evidence of warming up here. Of course you know I am a rabid, feminist left-wing nut according to your standards.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
And you are helping make more cooperative improvements for society how?

We have seen evidence of warming up here. Of course you know I am a rabid, feminist left-wing nut according to your standards.

Yea, right. The annual Canadian baby seal hunt got into serious trouble because all the boats got stuck in pack ice that was the farthest south in many years, and even the ice breaker ship sent to rescue them got stuck in the ice. Sure, it's "Global Warming." Yea, right.

And of course we remember that Algore claims that arctic sea ice is the most accurate indication of "global warming." The greatest extension of arctic sea ice in 40 years is an "inconvenient fact" to the "global warming" nutters. Lets pretend it didn't happen.

Blessings

Bob

[Boreas]

Ah bob, a joyful, well informed post as usual! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif

I am still waiting to hear how you contribute to a cooperative solution.

[nacktman]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
I saw an editorial cartoon today that showed the GW in G. W. Bush to stand for Global Warming. Bush was pouring a can of gas on a globe of the earth and getting ready to set it on fire.

Yeah, and you can find it here Shrub adding gas onto the fire. (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6500016152/m/5080062463/p/78)

Or right here:

[nacktman]

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Ah bob, a joyful, well informed post as usual! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif

I am still waiting to hear how you contribute to a cooperative solution.

Touche! Still-Boreas, touche!

[nacktman]

Originally posted by BinCo:
Hey Nacktman and Mark!! I agree with you guys on this topic. The wife and I recycle, and try to do other things to reduce our footprint too.

Kewl!

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Ah bob, a joyful, well informed post as usual! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif

I am still waiting to hear how you contribute to a cooperative solution.

Right after you, toots.

Blessings

Bob

[Boreas]

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Ah bob, a joyful, well informed post as usual! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/applause.gif

I am still waiting to hear how you contribute to a cooperative solution.

Right after you, toots.

Blessings

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope babyface. If you read through some of my previous posts you will see I have given various suggestions. You have so eloquently said that your knowledge was superior (in so many words) so I am really curious to hear your wise contributions. I am also not prepared to have my suggestions shot down as feminist dogma.

After you poopsiecakes.

[Naked Couple]

Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Naturist Mark]

Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I see you are still having trouble with Al Gore's name.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI> Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part):
During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development of the technology that we now know as the Internet. To claim that Gore was seriously trying to take credit for the "invention" of the Internet is, frankly, just silly political posturing that arose out of a close presidential campaign. Gore never used the word "invent," and the words "create" and "invent" have distinctly different meanings — the former is used in the sense of "to bring about" or "to bring into existence" while the latter is generally used to signify the first instance of someone's thinking up or implementing an idea. (To those who say the words "create" and "invent" mean exactly the same thing, we have to ask why, then, the media overwhelmingly and consistently cited Gore as having claimed he "invented" the Internet, even though he never used that word, and transcripts of what he actually said were readily available.) snopes (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp)


<LI> Vint Cerf, one of the few men who can legitimately claim to be an 'inventor' of the internet said the following:

VP Gore was the first or surely among the first of the members of Congress to become a strong supporter of advanced networking while he served as Senator. As far back as 1986, he was holding hearings on this subject (supercomputing, fiber networks...) and asking about their promise and what could be done to realize them. Bob Kahn, with whom I worked to develop the Internet design in 1973, participated in several hearings held by then-Senator Gore and I recall that Bob introduced the term ``information infrastructure'' in one hearing in 1986. It was clear that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it.

As Senator, VP Gore was highly supportive of the research community's efforts to explore new networking capabilities and to extend access to supercomputers by way of NSFNET and its successors, the High Performance Computing and Communication program (which included the National Research and Education Network initiative), and as Vice President, he has been very responsive to recommendations made, for example, by the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee that endorsed additional research funding for next generation fundamental research in software and related topics. If you look at the last 30-35 years of network development, you'll find many people who have made major contributions without which the Internet would not be the vibrant, growing and exciting thing it is today. The creation of a new information infrastructure requires the willing efforts of thousands if not millions of participants and we've seen leadership from many quarters, all of it needed, to move the Internet towards increased availability and utility around the world.

While it is not accurate to say that VP Gore invented Internet, he has played a powerful role in policy terms that has supported its continued growth and application, for which we should be thankful. [/list]

Read More. (http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/)

[nacktman]

Originally posted by Naked Couple:
Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Methinks a TROLL ALERT tis warranted here!

[Pete Knight]

What is a Troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord ... Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; … ; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. ... trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Why Does it Matter?
… It would be nice if everybody was so easy-going, but the sad fact is that trolls do discourage people. Established posters may leave a message board because of the arguments that trolls ignite, and lurkers (people who read but do not post), may decide that they do not want to expose themselves to abuse and thus never get involved.

Another problem is that the negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

The Internet is a wonderful resource which is breaking down barriers and stripping away prejudice. Trolls threaten our continued enjoyment of this beautiful forum for ideas.

What Can be Done about Trolls?
When you suspect that somebody is a troll, you might try responding with a polite, mild message to see if it's just somebody in a bad mood. Internet users sometimes let their passions get away from them when seated safely behind their keyboard. If you ignore their bluster and respond in a pleasant manner, they usually calm down.

However, if the person persists in being beastly, and seems to enjoy being unpleasant, the only effective … way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. Embarassed When you scream at a troll, he wins.

The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored. Very Happy

What Not to Do
As already stated, it is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession. But perhaps you simply cannot bear the hostile environment that the troll is creating and want to go away for a while.

If you do that, then for the sake of the others on the [forum], please do not post a dramatic "Goodbye!" message. This convinces the troll that he is winning the battle. There is, perhaps, no message you can write on a message system that is as damaging as an announcement that you are leaving because of the hostility that the troll has kindled.

If you feel you must say something, a discreet message to the system operator (and some of the others users, if you have their email addresses) is the best course of action. Incidentally, if you are writing the letter in an agitated state, it is a good idea to wait an hour and then give it one last review before you actually send it. That might spare you the pain of saying things that you don't really mean to people you like.

The Webmaster's Challenge
…
The moderator of a message board may not be able to delete a troll's messages right away, but their job is made much harder if they also have to read numerous replies to trolls. They are also forced to decide whether or not to delete posts from well-meaning folks which have the unintended effect of encouraging the troll.

Some webmasters have to endure conscientious users telling them that they are "acting like dictators" and should never delete a single message. These people may be misinformed … Please remember that a troll does have an alternative if he has something of value to say: there are services on the net that provide messaging systems free of charge. So the troll can set up his own message board, where he can make his own decisions about the kind of content he will tolerate.

Just how much can we expect of a webmaster when it comes to preserving the principles of free speech? Some trolls find sport in determining what the breaking point is for a particular message board operator. …

Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one — himself.

What about free speech?
When trolls find that their efforts are being successfully resisted, they often complain that their right to free speech is being infringed. Let us examine that claim.

While most people on the Internet are ardent defenders of free speech, it is not an absolute right; there are practical limitations. For example, you may not scream out "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you may not make jokes about bombs while waiting to board an airplane. We accept these limitations because we recognize that they serve a greater good.
…
When a troll attacks a message board, he generally posts a lot of messages. Even if his messages are not particularly inflammatory, they can be so numerous that they drown out the regular conversations (this is known as 'flooding'). Needless to say, no one person's opinions can be allowed to monopolize.

The ultimate response to the 'free speech' argument is this: while we may have the right to say more or less whatever we want, we do not have the right to say it wherever we want. You may feel strongly about the fact that your neighbour has not mowed his lawn for two months, but you do not have the right to berate him in his own living room. Similarly, if a webmaster tells a troll that he is not welcome, the troll has no "right" to remain. This is particularly true on the numerous free communications services offered on the net.

Why Do They Do It?
Affirmation. Regular net users know how delightful it is when somebody responds to something they have written. It is a meeting of the minds, which is an intellectual thrill, but it is also an acknowledgement of one's value — and that can be a very satisfying emotional reward.

Trolls crave attention, and they care not whether it is positive or negative. They see the Internet as a mirror into which they can gaze in narcissistic rapture.
If you want a deeper analysis than that, perhaps a psychologist can shed some additional light on the matter.

Conclusion
Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody who you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby.

The Internet is a splendidly haphazard collection of both serious and silly material. Because it is so free, there are bound to be problems. I think that we can best enjoy it if we deal with everything that happens online with a wry grin and a ready shrug.

[tinhfwv]

Troll: One who disagrees with the forum's opinion police.

[usmc1]

Opinion Police: Those who respond to the forum's wing nuts, trolls, neo-cons, uninformed conservatives, reactionaries, flippant and superficial smart asses, and insane ranters with facts, references, charts, graphs, specifics, research, surveys, history, knowledge and logic. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/stickdance.gif

[nacktman]

Great post Pete.

There are those that endeavor to undermine and subvert and distract from the topic at hand and most do so in a 'troll-like' manner then are upset when they or one of their fellows are named for what they are.

Would that not be the case, but alas, tis not to be.

*****

Definition accepted usmc1.
Reasonable people with the ability to think independently, willing to do the required work to form thoughts and opinions, and the wherewithal to stand up and not let those without those qualities and abilities spew unabated are now and for evermore to be known as the Opinion Police. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

*****

On to topic (we must not allow the 'diverters' to divert the topic):

Live Earth was an extremely good series of concerts. It raised awareness, no matter what some are screeching ... the fact they are screeching proves that.
Global warming is a fact.
Have we as humans had any affect on it ... you betcha, how much is open for debate, but it is worse than the screechers want you to believe.
Global warming is a natural cycle and always proceeds an "Ice Age" (something the Earth is actually overdue for), so it IS happening ... the magnitude of the contributions of we humans to the process is all that is debatable.

The effects are not debatable ... and they can and will be societal destroying (as we know society today).
To prevent total destruction of our society we need to adapt it to the true current and future conditions and quickly.
Going "GREEN" as it is hyped is a decent start and needs to continue at a rapidly increased pace.

[tinhfwv]

The opinion police have self-identified.

[usmc1]

Originally posted by tinhfwv:
The opinion police have self-identified.

As have the superficially flippant and uninformed conservatives and their fellow travelers and running dogs!

[tinhfwv]

Diversity of thought and opinion is so very annoying.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by nacktman:
The effects are not debatable
Seems to be a lot of debating going on for something that you claim isn't debatable.

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Naked Couple:
Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LOL! Good point.

The left wingnuts will have problems with the humor in that. Algore is one of their sacred cows.

Blessings

Bob

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by Pete Knight:
What is a Troll?
An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord ... Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; … ; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. ... trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

What? It doesn't say, "Anybody who disagrees with knockmen"? That seems to be the definition proposed around here lately.


Blessings
Bob

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
The effects are not debatable
Seems to be a lot of debating going on for something that you claim isn't debatable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Algore and his followers have attempted to silence discussion by claiming that debate or disagreement is not possible, that their left wingnut views are now the gold standard. But the trouble with their "global warming" political nonsense, it's still a political posture rather than a physical fact. And of course a political posture is very debatable.

Blessings

Bob

[usmc1]

Oh my, I left the lunatic fringe off my list. Bob thanks for the reminder

[Bobx23456]

Originally posted by tinhfwv:
Troll: One who disagrees with the forum's opinion police.


BINGO! You nailed it.

Blessings

Bob

[Boreas]

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naked Couple:
Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation.

LOL! Good point.

The left wingnuts will have problems with the humor in that. Algore is one of their sacred cows.

Blessings

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From this side of the fence it would appear that the rightwingnuts have problems with humour. There are a few rightwingnut sacred cows. The almighty dollar for one. And heaven forbid anyone criticizes St. G.W.

I have also noticed that it is okay for rightwingnuts to shut down conversation with labels and derision. Don't even disagree with one. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/confused.gif

One of my favourite right wing icons has been knocked down a peg. Conrad Black isn't so high on the pedestal these days. (of course, I digress, or continue the digression)

[shomymojo]

Originally posted by Naked Couple:
Just think a minute...if Algore hadn't invented the internet we wouldn't be having this conversation. ...ROFLMAO !!!

[Naturist Mark]

The left wingnuts will have problems with the humor in that. Algore is one of their sacred cows.
Now Bob is having problems spelling Al Gore's name. It is a rather simple name. What do you suppose the problem is?

I also suspect Bob doesn't know what a 'sacred cow' is. It is not an object of worship or veneration, rather it is a symbol of abundance and the sanctity of life to Hindus. Al Gore on the other hand is a notorious meat eater and hunter.

It would be more accurate to label Gore as nevi (??????) which means proclaimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet#Prophets_in_the_Tanakh_.28Hebrew_Bible.29) or "one who speaks inconvenient truths".

Peace

[nacktman]

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
The effects are not debatable
Seems to be a lot of debating going on for something that you claim isn't debatable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MJ, there is a lot of denial and lying coming from a "certain" camp about global warming and its effects but no debate, because as I stated there is no debate possible on the effects of global warming.
The effects of global warming can and have been measured from past "warming periods" as well as the current stage of the cycle.
This is the cycle the Earth goes thorough ... with each "warming period" followed by an "ice age" (one of which we are overdue on).
The Earth has been "warming up" since the end of the last "ice age" (and dependent on where on the map you are that was 20,000 to 8,000 years ago give or take a few hundred years or so), but the pace of the warming has been proven to be at an increased and increasing rate over the last 200 years and most significantly the last 75 years which as you know roughly coincides with the "Modern Industrial Age").
Therefore no debate is possible on the effects of global warming.
Debate on the contribution of humans to the severity of those effects are, is what is open for debate ... and the scientific world the solidly on board in that humans have made major contributions to the severity of the effects of global warming and to have hastened those effects ... again the debate there centers on the severity of those major contributions ... as in ... an in the park stand up double or an out of the park home-run ... to use the baseball analogy.

*****
Now if the Trolls will leave us be to remain on topic.

[Naturist Mark]

I WILL SEE ALL OF YOU ON THE BARRICADES

The music was just the frosting on the cake, Live Earth was about learning how to take actions, both small and large to confront the climate crisis.

Perhaps the most eloquent, and most extreme, call to action came from Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/BlueHorde/RFKjr.jpg <UL TYPE=SQUARE> Video (http://www.bradblog.com/images/rfkjr_liveearth_player.swf)

Now we've all heard the oil industry and the coal industry and their indentured servants in the political process telling us that global climate stability is a luxury that we can't afford. That we have to choose now between economic prosperity on the one hand and environmental protection on the other. And that is a false choice.

In 100% of the situations, good environmental policy is identical to good economic policy --- if we want to measure our economy, and this is how we ought to be measuring it, based upon how it produces jobs and the dignity of jobs over the generations, how it preserves the values of the assets of our community and how it averts the catastrophe of global warming.

If, on the other hand, we want to do what they've been urging us to do on Capitol Hill which is to treat the planet as if it were a business in liquidation, convert our natural resources to cash as quickly as possible, have a few years of pollution based prosperity, we can generate an instantaneous cash flow and the illusion of a prosperous economy. But our children are going to pay for our joyride with denuded landscapes, with poor health, with huge cleanup costs and with climate chaos which is going to amplify over time and that they will never be able to pay.

Environmental injury is deficit spending. It is a way of loading the costs of our generation's prosperity on to the backs of our children. Climate change is upon us. Its impacts are going to be catastrophic and we are causing it. The good news is, we have the scientific and technological capacity to avert its most catastrophic impacts. We only need the political will.

If we raise fuel economy standards in our automobiles by one mile --- we generate twice the amount of oil that is in the Arctic National Wildlife Refugee. If we raise fuel economy standards by 7.6 miles per gallon we yield more oil than we now import from the Persian Gulf. We can eliminate 100% of Persian Gulf oil.

Think about what that would do for our economy, for our foreign policy, for our global leadership, it would dramatically improve our balance of payments, reduce our national debt and make all of us more prosperous and more independent and spare us from wars in the Mid-East that are costing us, already, a trillion dollars and from entanglements with Mid-Eastern dictators who despise democracy and are hated by their own people.

Now you've heard today a lot of people say that there are many little things that you all can do today to avert climate change on your own. But I will tell you this, it is more important than buying compact flourescent light bulbs or than buying a fuel efficient automobile. The most important thing you can do is to get involved in the political process and get rid of all of these rotten politicians that we have in Washington D.C. --

Who are nothing more than corporate toadies for companies like Exxon and Southern Company, these villainous companies that consistently put their private financial interest ahead of American interest and ahead of the interest of all of humanity. This is treason and we need to start treating them now as traitors.

And they have their slick public relations firms and their phony think tanks in Washington D.C. and their crooked scientists who are lying to the American people day after day after day. And we have a press that has completely let down American Democracy. That's giving us Ana Nicole Smith and Paris Hilton instead of the issues that we need to understand to make rational decisions in a democracy - like global warming.

And so I am going to tell you this, that the next time you see John Stossel or Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity --- these flat-earthers, these corporate toadies, lying to you, lying to the American public, and telling you that global warming doesn't exist --- you send an email to their advertisers and tell them that you are not going to buy their products anymore.

And I want you to remember this, that we are not protecting the environment for the sake of the fishes and the birds, we are protecting it because nature is the infrastructure of our communities. And if we want to meet our obligation as a generation, as a civilization, as a nation, which is to create communities for our children that provide them with the same opportunities for dignity, and enrichment, and good health, and prosperity, and stability as the communities that our parents gave us, we've got to start by protecting our environmental infrastructure.

The air we breathe, the water we drink, the wildlife, the public lands, the things that connect us to our past to our history that provide context to our communities and that are the source, ultimately, of our values and our virtues and our character as a people and the future of our children.

And I will see all of you on the barricades.

h/t to Bradblog
[/list]

Davis Fleetwood provides some background and amplification in his video response:
RFK JR @ LIVE EARTH: "YOU KILLED MY FATHER, PREPARE TO DIE" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpFkE67X7o)

See you at the Barricades - Mark

[kphoger]

What is the "carbon footprint" of the Live Earth concerts? How many people would have to give up their life style to compensate for the so-called Live Earth concert?


i personally liked the photos of participants giving a thumbs-up . . . in front of their HUMMER!

yeah, when's the last time you saw a toyota prius at a recycling facility? i never have.

[Naturist Mark]

i personally liked the photos of participants giving a thumbs-up . . . in front of their HUMMER!
Cool, did you really see that? -cause generally people at the concerts didn't bring their HUMMERS into the concert hall or stadium, they generally left them outside or at home.

Either way, extremely cool. Live Earth is about learning and taking action - something even HUMMER owners need. Especially HUMMER owners. I wish every HUMMER owner went to one of the concerts.

By the way, the new HUMMERS are flex fuel, and can burn E85 or straight ethanol. Older ones can be easily converted. Even monster cars can be run on biofuels and reduce their carbon footprint.

Yes, I've seen Prius owners at the recycling bins behind the Kroger store - in fact TWO of them just last friday. Sadly a Prius has a larger carbon footprint than an HUMMER burning biofuel - good news is that Toyota will finally be bringing Flex Fuel cars to the US next year. Let's hope that includes the Prius.

Thanks for bringing up a great point. EVERYONE can do something to help reduce the climate crisis, and you don't even have to give up all your toys.

-Mark

[usmc1]

Hey Mo-Boy, I'm starting to break into a smile here.

I've just about got a gut-full of some of you dissembling dorks and your middle-school simpering and snickering B.S. that because someone takes a breath and exhales it repudiates all they say, or that others say, concerning global warming and climate change and over-consumption of foreign oil. Mrs. USMC1's favorite pejorative for such is , "Jerks!"

I'm kinder. To me you're like a bunch of ignorant peasants that condemn and fear science because they don't understand it.

On the other hand, it is nice to look around and see the reinforcements coming to join us on the barricades.

[MoonShadow]

Thank you, Mark, for posting the video and speech of RFK, Jr. His words are true.

usmc1, yes, there are many at the barricades. More will follow and yes, I agree with you about these individuals who do not want to open their eyes and mind to the reality of our climate change. They listen to the lies from the media who are just puppets for the corporations and the corporate-bought politicians. Shows you how effective such tactics are. Sad, truly sad.

[MJ_KC]

We have had some large office buildings built locally that are certified as green buildings. The financial projections are that the increased cost of construction will be recovered in just a few years.

Some of the people who work in one of the buildings were interviewed and they stated that it is a much better working environment. Most of the lighting on bright days is obtained by large windows and light shafts. They can turn on lights when needed.

They also stated that the air in the building is a lot cleaner with lower indoor pollution than normal.

Sounds like a winning solution all around. Utility costs are greatly reduced and they even used a lot of recycled materials in the construction.

Going green can actually make our living conditions better right away by creating living spaces that are better to spend our time in.

[MJ_KC]

Originally posted by nacktman:
MJ, there is a lot of denial and lying coming from a "certain" camp about global warming and its effects but no debate, because as I stated there is no debate possible on the effects of global warming.
I would tend to agree that there is a lot of flat out denial from many on the political right. They aren't really debating so much as they are ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

We need to see what we can do to help reduce what is happening when it makes financial sense to do it. We may not be able to do a lot about existing construction, but we need to do as much as we can when building something new.

It is a step in the right direction that increased energy efficiency for air conditioners was mandated. I replaced my entire system last year when it was still optional to get the higher rated system. I got one of the new higher efficiency systems.

They are a little more expensive, but they are built better and will more than pay back the difference in cost over the life of the A/C unit.

[usmc1]

Global Warming Denial is a well-funded machine financed by under-taxed corporations using that wind-fall money against We the people!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20122975/site/newsweek/

[MJ_KC]

I read an article recently about just how fast the planet is warming up. It is happening even faster than the U.N. panel on global warming thought it was.

A section of the article was about a researcher in Greenland who has completely changed the way scientists view the structure and movement of large ice sheets.

According to conventional thinking, the ice sheets in Greenland should take 100's or even a 1000 years to respond to a warm up. He has been there for about 10 years and he is seeing major changes already. He had some monitoring equipment anchored in the ice in such a way that they should have been stable for years. The ice sheet is starting to gain speed towards the ocean and his equipment got knocked to the ice as the ice cracked under the strain.

He is actually able to directly measure the acceleration of the ice sheet over fairly short periods of time. This is getting way too serious for us to not do what we can to slow down this process.

Here is a NASA article that discusses this.

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20020606greenland.html

[usmc1]

Lost to, or overlooked by most Americans during their festive celebrations on December 28th last, there was an event in which a huge mass of the Canadian ice shelf broke free. Scientists point at global climate change as the cause.

The ice mass was the size of 11,000 football fields---larger than Manhattan for perspective. This event had been predicted but was not expected to actually happen for another decade or so.

The ice shelf housed an entire ecosystem and many bio-organisms which are now lost and is expected to drift into populated shipping lanes within a couple of years.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2006...28/BNStory/National/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061228.wshelf1228/BNStory/National/)