Strippers at Caliente ?! [Archive]

Journeyman

08-18-2005, 07:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben_m:
Bizarre http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ! Isn't trying to sell strippers at a nudist resort about like trying to sell water to a drowning man (or in this case, apparently woman)? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

This makes absolutely no sense to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to agree with Ben. It's a non-issue. Who knows -- maybe the guys begin the routine fully nude and then slowly begin to dress, sensually fitting their dress shirts under their pants; casually but erotically tying their neckties, etc... http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

08-19-2005, 01:34 AM

All the male stripper shows I've been to, the guys didn't get totally nude anyway. They only went down to a G string.

They would be laughed at if they did that at Caliente.

I don't see any conflict of interests. Why should nudists not be "permitted" to act like the general public and enjoy a strip show? It's late at night in the nightclub just as a show outside the nudist walls would be.

God forbid we actually admit that sexy can be a good thing!

Nudony

08-19-2005, 06:09 AM

That's why I prefer to stick to rustic, "nuthin-there-but-a-pool-n-hot-tub" resorts. The problem with larger scale, commercial resorts is that they tend to go with "where the money is." If you want to see strippers and other "sexy" shows, why not just drive downtown where the "action" is? Why would you want to see that at a nudist resort?
There's nothing wrong with sexiness; I have met quite a few "sexy" nudists, who were all intelligent enough to be mindful and respectful of the people around them. But "stripper-sexy" is another ballpark altogether.
I'll just stick to my rustic resorts.

barmonkey

08-19-2005, 06:18 AM

The nightclub at Caliente seems to be mostly non-nudists on Friday and Saturday nights. I was there in July, and during one song, there were 5 girls dancing on the stage. One of the girls was topless, and she was trying to get the other girls to dance topless with her. None of them could bring themselves to do it. They were definitly not nudists. I felt out of place being naked in there. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of textiles who hang out at Caliente for the nightclub, and this is probably the crowd they're trying to attract with this strip show.

I also agree with Cyndiannaked. It's all good fun.

barbararuth

08-19-2005, 06:38 AM

Caliente is not your typical family-oriented nudist resort. They have set themselves apart by providing amenities that may cater to the younger, more financially secure nudist on vacation. Unlike many resorts, the nightclubs and restaurants are alive and kicking at night with lots of sexually-charged activities.. sexy lingerie parties, male strippers, etc. They are undoubtedly designed as entertainment.

As nudists, we may look at it as "going against the ideals of naturism" in the purest sense, but I believe the resort is more concerned with filling rooms and packing the club at night. I believe that pure naturism takes a back seat here to entrepreneurism!

nakednudists

08-19-2005, 06:42 AM

Well said barbararuth!

Hooked

08-19-2005, 08:16 AM

I understand that Caliente can do whatever they want b/c it's a free country BUT they are in danger of losing their AANR affiliation and family clients. Lots of clubs have decided to take that loss and go on with it. I, perrsonally, think that's a shame. It's too bad Caliente doesn't have a higher standard. This is the type of thing that would make me choose a different resort for my vacation and like others have said, it's stupid to have strippers at a nudist resort where everyone is already naked. They can do what they want but I'm going to choose AANR clubs for my vacations so I hope everyone is happy in the end.

Question: Why do the nicest clubs always end up resorting to strippers, beauty pageants and lifestyles conventions? The same thing happened at that Ponderosa Club and also here in Texas at I think it was called Live Oak or something like that. Supposedly the nicest club in Texas started doing swinger parties and biker rallies. Do these events really generate more money than families of nudists coming and visiting the park every weekend instead of just for special events?

SunGod

08-19-2005, 08:30 AM

Ok, strippers at a nude resort is kind of dumb, but I'll bet the act is good, and I'm more then confident the stars of the show are in better shape then most of the men @ Caliente. So, take it for ALL that is it, a little fun and entertainment for the ladies. Its not about low standards, unless your some moralist who thinks strippers are evil or something. Realize that family dollars dont come in large enough sums and often enough to run places like this. You have to be a business man and go where the $$$ is. I dont think Caliente can do wrong as long as they dont start hosting swinger parties.

SunGod

08-19-2005, 08:32 AM

sexually charged activities - does that include sexual intercourse ?

Your kidding right? Arg!

need2Bnude

08-19-2005, 09:18 AM

I think stuff like this has its place, and to me that would be outside of a nudist resort. Because alot of people cannot seperate nudity and sexaully charged nude desires, this type of activity can only charge the sexual side (perverted if you will), I had a heated arguement with a friend last night after he said any kind of desire to be nude is purely perverted. If he saw caliente resort doing what they do; I would have a tougher batttle on my hands.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DoctorSurferDude:
I was looking up prices on their website....and was disappointed to find this announcement....

"OK LADIES, JUST A FEW SHORT DAYS AWAY FROM THE 26TH WHEN JT & ZOLT AND COMPANY WILL BE BACK IN THE CLUB FOR OUR MALE REVUE. THE GUYS WILL PERFORM FROM 7:30 to 9:30 AND THE DOORS WILL OPEN AT 7 SO YOU CAN GET A GREAT VANTAGE POINT. TICKETS ARE ON SALE AT THE FRONT DESK SO COME ON IN AND BUY YOURS TODAY."
http://www.calienteresort.com/n/club/blather.htm

Seems like a conflict of interests to me....and not the first that I'm aware of from Caliente.

What are your opinions? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DoctorSurferDude

08-19-2005, 12:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Lee:
sexually charged activities - does that include sexual intercourse ?

elaborate / explain </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not trying to smear Caliente, I like it there, the people were nice to us and the resort is spectacular. So I'm not attacking Caliente...I'm simply questioning their discretion, they can and will do as they please....

Nudism is a non-sexual endevour. If you begin to mix in sex-charged activities, then you begin to compromise the foundation of nudism. These activities are things like strippers, lingere parties, swinger parties, accepted exhibitionism/voyeurism, etc.

Calinte....
-- has stripper events
-- allowed for a house to be rented out for a swinger event that had more than 50 swingers having sex and leaving stains.
-- Has lingere parties, every friday ("naughty nighties")

It concerns me. And events like that are starting to remind me of Paradise Lakes. But at thankfully they fall short of the likes of Ponderosa.

AANR won't shun them. For one reason....$$$$$.

"When the money keeps rolling in, you don?t ask how
Think of all the people guaranteed a good time now"
"Turn a blind eye, Evita, turn a blind eye..."
--- Evita (musical) ...I know, it's random.

barbararuth

08-19-2005, 01:21 PM

The entertainment venues must be extemely profitable and, although I personally don't have an interest in watching male strippers, there are (obviously) enough people who do to make it worth while.

BackpackerBrian

08-19-2005, 02:18 PM

It seems to me that Caliente has gone past nudism and into the adult entertainment business. This event and the others Doc listed above seem are, in my opinion, over the line. Moreover as Caliente is a "naturist" facility, events like these smear the naturist community.

Where is the money vs. value balance? Sure, they may be interested in short-term profits and filling rooms, but longer term are these events and the reputation from them hurt all naturist clubs??

And will people who want this spicy side of life come to other clubs expecting the same thing, or bringing it in??

08-19-2005, 05:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben_m:
Bizarre http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ! Isn't trying to sell strippers at a nudist resort about like trying to sell water to a drowning man (or in this case, apparently woman)? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

This makes absolutely no sense to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm?..The ad didn't mention they were strippers..."male nude revue"...Maybe they are just a talented group of male dancers or singers performing nude...Dont they deserve the benefit of the doubt

Trailscout

08-19-2005, 08:47 PM

I remember an episode of the mini-series "Caligula" in which the evil emperor asked one of the Roman senators if the treasury was of the utmost importance. When the senator replied, "yes", then Caligula had all the senators' wives put into the public brothels against their will. After all, if money is everything, we must obtain it by any means necessary.

As displeased as I am with Caliente, I am even more displeased with AANR for tolerating the swinging and sexually-charged entertainment. They sometimes whine that they cannot make a resort behave ethically, but they can revoke the resort's AANR affiliation.

Some resorts have been dropped by AANR. Mountain Creek Grove in North Georgia (now simply called "The Grove") is an openly swinger resort that once hosted the AANR East Convention. Things got so bad that AANR was embarassed into washing their hands of them.

I would rather see AANR go fiscally bankrupt than let them remain morally bankrupt.

Actually I think a well-run upscale resort has no need for swinging and porn. They can attract plenty of people with excellence and friendly ways.

Ben_m

08-20-2005, 10:01 AM

For the record and/or clarity, given my previous comments, I do not endorse "sexy activities" at "nudist resorts". It would mean nothing, but if I were to advise AANR, I would advise withdrawing their affiliation from any resort involved in making "nude" = "sexy" as it will surely work to the detriment of the naturist cause in the end. That is the very perception we must work to change if we are to make the strides necessary to gain increased simple and basic body acceptance.

08-20-2005, 10:29 AM

Caliente can measure just how popular their style of nudism is by their sales. They not only sold out every single unit in record time, it was done while raising the prices substantially and while turning the RV park into more condos because people were clamoring for them.

Resales of those properties, even just a year into it, were extremely profitable as well.

A point I do want to make though is that Caliente does not condone swinging. It's not allowed in any of the public areas at any time. What people do inside a rental condo is entirely up to them. It's a private area.

Gothmog

08-20-2005, 10:39 AM

The yahoo group called "calienteandparadiseswingers" speaks volumes

Trailscout

08-20-2005, 12:44 PM

I think there will always be clothing optional venues that cater to people who want a sexually-charged environment. And it is interesting to note that the Caliente/Paradise swingers yahoo group has just under seven thousand members, many of whom presumably use Caliente and Paradise for sexual activity.

The problem is that as such groups and clubs grow to prominence and seem to have obtained the implicit approval of AANR (by virtue of permitting their membership) it will give the impression that social nudity is:
Not for families
Not for people of faith
Not a place for nonsexual pasttimes
Not a place for mainstream Americans

Family nudists and naturists will increasingly be on the defensive against the critics of social nudity, unable to offer evidence that non-sexual nude recreation exists as anything more than a pipe dream.

AANR has all but endorsed this anti-family type of venue by virtue of picking Caliente for their most recent convention.

It may well be time for family nudist parks to wash their hands of this old corrupt organization and the sexually-oriented resorts. Instead, nudists of good will should unite under the banner of family naturism in some new organization that is driven by ethics and not revenue.

08-20-2005, 02:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trailscout:
I think there will always be clothing optional venues that cater to people who want a sexually-charged environment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's not a sexually charged environment. Most people who stay at Caliente don't see a thing different than any other club. Same for Paradise. The only time there is anything "sexually charged" going on is late at night in the nightclubs when the dancers get going. Dancing can be sexy. There is no humping on the dancefloor or erections or anything really sexually charged.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

And it is interesting to note that the Caliente/Paradise swingers yahoo group has just under seven thousand members, many of whom presumably use Caliente and Paradise for sexual activity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually most of them don't even live in the state. Just like any Yahoo group, only a handful actually post and participate and only a handful actually go to those clubs. I've been watching that group since it's inception so I'm well informed on what is on there.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

The problem is that as such groups and clubs grow to prominence and seem to have obtained the implicit approval of AANR (by virtue of permitting their membership) it will give the impression that social nudity is:
Not for families
Not for people of faith
Not a place for nonsexual pasttimes
Not a place for mainstream Americans

Family nudists and naturists will increasingly be on the defensive against the critics of social nudity, unable to offer evidence that non-sexual nude recreation exists as anything more than a pipe dream.

AANR has all but endorsed this anti-family type of venue by virtue of picking Caliente for their most recent convention. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are a lot of families and children at Caliente. You are going by what you hear instead of what really goes on. I've been to Caliente at least 100 times so I think I know a little more about what is going on than you do.

IOW, what you think is going on just isn't. The swingers keep their activities to private homes and are not permitted to get away with anything not AANR approved anywhere on the public Caliente property.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

It may well be time for family nudist parks to wash their hands of this old corrupt organization and the sexually-oriented resorts. Instead, nudists of good will should unite under the banner of family naturism in some new organization that is driven by ethics and not revenue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may be time for you to post about what really is going on instead of what you want to think is going on. Your entire opinion is based on untruths.

barmonkey

08-20-2005, 02:30 PM

To defend Caliente a little more, any sexually charged activities that actually do happen take place in either the nightclub or the hot-tub/conversation pool area, and both areas are designated adult only. The conversation pool area is upstairs and nicely seperated from the main pool area, and cannot be seen from anywhere else except right outside the nightclub. The nightclub area is the only non-family friendly area in the whole resort. It's just like any bar, you're not going to take your kids there.

Gothmog

08-20-2005, 03:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barmonkey:
To defend Caliente a little more, any sexually charged activities that actually do happen take place in either the nightclub or the hot-tub/conversation pool area, and both areas are designated adult only. The conversation pool area is upstairs and nicely seperated from the main pool area, and cannot be seen from anywhere else except right outside the nightclub. The nightclub area is the only non-family friendly area in the whole resort. It's just like any bar, you're not going to take your kids there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The hot-tub & converation pool's isolation is irrelevent. Such activities should not be occuring in the public areas at a nudist facility.

08-20-2005, 03:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BeachBare:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barmonkey:
To defend Caliente a little more, any sexually charged activities that actually do happen take place in either the nightclub or the hot-tub/conversation pool area, and both areas are designated adult only. The conversation pool area is upstairs and nicely seperated from the main pool area, and cannot be seen from anywhere else except right outside the nightclub. The nightclub area is the only non-family friendly area in the whole resort. It's just like any bar, you're not going to take your kids there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The hot-tub & converation pool's isolation is irrelevent. Such activities should not be occuring in the public areas at a nudist facility. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Define "such activities". I have never seen anything out of line happen at Caliente in the public areas except one single time and the manager ran them off.

Gothmog

08-20-2005, 03:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
I have never seen anything out of line happen at Caliente in the public areas except one single time and the manager ran them off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Barmonkey seems to have a different story.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Define "such activities". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, I'm speaking of the "sexually charged" activities that Barmonkey described, which seem to require out of the way isolated areas to partake in.

08-20-2005, 05:33 PM

The nightclub is an out of the way isolated place?

Nope.

Neither is the conversation pool.

You still didn't define it. He didn't either. I have a feeling his definition doesn't match yours.

Either way, like I said, I've been there about 100 times and only once saw anything that should not be going on at a nudist resort.

I've also extensively interviewed the head of security there and asked him if he looks the other way like they sometimes do at Paradise and I really don't think he allows it.

Sexually charged could mean dancing sexy. So what? Both of you need to define what you mean, explicitly.

Have you even been there to have an EDUCATED opinion?

Gothmog

08-20-2005, 06:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
The nightclub is an out of the way isolated place? Nope. Neither is the conversation pool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not isolated perhaps but out of view. But I didn't say they were.. Barmonkey did.

Whether they are or not is really irrelevent. If there are "sexual activities" taking place in the public areas (whether isolated/out of view or whatever ones nitpicking a$$ wants to call it), that would be totally inappropriate for a nudist facility.

You are correct that we need to define what we are talking about. I am speaking of outright sex (oral, anal, vaginal) or sex related acts such as fondling, licking, deep kissing, etc. in public areas.

08-20-2005, 06:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BeachBare:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
The nightclub is an out of the way isolated place? Nope. Neither is the conversation pool.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not isolated perhaps but out of view. But I didn't say they were.. Barmonkey did.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

The nightclub is the center of activity at night, it's anything but isolated. And the conversation pool is just outside the nightclub. They aren't "out of view" and that's really not what he said.[quote]

Whether they are or not is really irrelevent. If there are "sexual activities" taking place in the public areas (whether isolated/out of view or whatever ones nitpicking a$$ wants to call it), that would be totally inappropriate for a nudist facility.

You are correct that we need to define what we are talking about. I am speaking of outright sex (oral, anal, vaginal) or sex related acts such as fondling, licking, deep kissing, etc. in public areas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why we need his definition, to tell us exactly what he's seen. I live right in the area and go often and I have been ever since they first opened, before the nightclub and pool was even there. I've seen lots of outright sex at Paradise over the years late at night (never during the daytime) but as I said, only one incident at Caliente, and it wasn't condoned by management, even covertly.

Bob S.

08-20-2005, 10:54 PM

"AANR has repeatedly said that they can't take action if no one complains to them."

That is just BS and I talked a lot about it on my previous topic of how to improve the AANR. They are giving businesses permission to use their name and allowing them to have a say in the policy making aspects of the organization. It confounds me why they do not have a more proactive method of checking on member clubs.

In fact, I was going to meet with Walt to discuss a method of introducing yearly inspections for member clubs/resorts (he went to the convention) but I never did get together with him. I feel this will be a major step in assuring the public that AANR member resorts are following the AANR philosophy.

On the AANR FAQ (http://www.aanr.com/faq.html) site, the characteristics of an AANR club are:
The atmosphere of an AANR club is wholesome and friendly. People who enjoy nude recreation distinguish between nudity and sex and keep the two in their proper perspectives. Clubs are careful about who enters their facility and if anyone seems to be there for the wrong reason, they will be asked to leave. Because each club has its own admission policies, activities, and amenities, we recommend contacting the club before your first visit.

Stripping, it seems to me, fails that description. I am not against strippers, but I am when they are performing at an AANR park.

I saw the pics on their site and it looks like they are strippers. That fact also confuses me. Why would nudists want to see people strip?

"Question: Why do the nicest clubs always end up resorting to strippers, beauty pageants and lifestyles conventions?"

That does confuse me as well, Hooked. The resorts always respond with the same mantra about having to pay the bills but why resort to sexually-charged activities or other activities that are averse to the nudist philosophy?

"I've been to Caliente at least 100 times so I think I know a little more about what is going on than you do."

cyndiann, I respect what you are saying and beliieve you that nothing goes on. But the fact that they have an activity such as stripping, which is sexually-charged, is questionable at best. Why would they feel the need to hire strippers IYO?

Bob S.

barmonkey

08-22-2005, 10:38 AM

I didn't say that the nightclub and conversation pool area was isolated, just designated adults only.

Cyndiannaked...I've only been there once, which was last 4th of July Weekend. Perhaps holiday weekends are more "frisky", or maybe you've never been to the conversation pool area in the middle of the night right after the nightclub closes, but I did witness blow jobs in the conversation pool. And my wife and I were approched by some swingers. I'm not saying that Caliente allows this, but it does happen. Or at least it did while I was there.

I agree that this kind of activity or any sexually charged activity shouldn't take place in a true nudist resort, but it doesn't bother me personally if it does.

08-22-2005, 11:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barmonkey:
I didn't say that the nightclub and conversation pool area was isolated, just designated adults only.

Cyndiannaked...I've only been there once, which was last 4th of July Weekend. Perhaps holiday weekends are more "frisky", or maybe you've never been to the conversation pool area in the middle of the night right after the nightclub closes, but I did witness blow jobs in the conversation pool. And my wife and I were approched by some swingers. I'm not saying that Caliente allows this, but it does happen. Or at least it did while I was there.

I agree that this kind of activity or any sexually charged activity shouldn't take place in a true nudist resort, but it doesn't bother me personally if it does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you reported it to Security, right?

Gothmog

08-22-2005, 11:44 AM

08-22-2005, 11:49 AM

It's not out of view of everything, just the bottom level where the big pool is. (It's up a story) You can see it from the top floor of the clubhouse.

And the clubhouse and attached pools are only "no kids" late at night, not all the time.

barmonkey

08-22-2005, 12:27 PM

Did I report it? No I didn't. Like I said before, it really doesn't bother me when it happens. My wife and I are late-night people when we're on vacation, and we've seen this at every resort we've been to. We just accepted that it was something that just happens at these places.

Will I report it next time? Yes, I probably will. Until now, I never really gave it any thought just how inappropriate it really is. The fact that it bothers my wife should have been enough for me to say something. I have to keep her happy!

missouriboy

08-23-2005, 02:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">my wife and I were approched by some swingers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I've not been to Caliente, but a friend-couple of ours here in MO have been, and they told the same story. "He" was propositioned by the wife while the husband was out on the dance-floor with "her." My friend rebuffed her query, and they got cold-shouldered for the rest of their visit. He didn't mention reporting it; just assumed it was SOP in the place.

Journeyman

08-23-2005, 03:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">my wife and I were approched by some swingers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I've not been to Caliente, but a friend-couple of ours here in MO have been, and they told the same story. "He" was propositioned by the wife while the husband was out on the dance-floor with "her." My friend rebuffed her query, and they got cold-shouldered for the rest of their visit. He didn't mention reporting it; just assumed it was SOP in the place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see what this has to do with Caliente. I've been "queried" myself at a nude beach and at another resort in the Caribbean -- but does this make the nude beach or the resort horrible places? No.
Many swingers seem to be naturists, or pseudo-naturists, and they're going to be everywhere just like non-naturists are.

takeitontherun

08-23-2005, 08:50 AM

Trailscout

08-23-2005, 09:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Journeyman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">my wife and I were approched by some swingers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I've not been to Caliente, but a friend-couple of ours here in MO have been, and they told the same story. "He" was propositioned by the wife while the husband was out on the dance-floor with "her." My friend rebuffed her query, and they got cold-shouldered for the rest of their visit. He didn't mention reporting it; just assumed it was SOP in the place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see what this has to do with Caliente. I've been "queried" myself at a nude beach and at another resort in the Caribbean -- but does this make the nude beach or the resort horrible places? No.
Many swingers seem to be naturists, or pseudo-naturists, and they're going to be everywhere just like non-naturists are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Open sexual solicitation is harassment. Certainly in the case of minors, it is criminal harassment. If Caliente treats this as a "non-issue", they are legally liable for their part in this crime.

What guy in his right mind would go to a place where he can routinely expect his wife and kids to be sexually solicited?

The government should shut down places like this. In many cities, gay bath houses have been shut down as a public health risk because of all the promiscuous sex. The same logic should apply to Caliente and Paradise if they are guilty of this wink-wink, nudge-nudge tolerance of gross public indecency.

08-23-2005, 11:51 AM

So who wants to go to Caliente with me to find out if Security looks the other way late at night? It could be fun!

08-23-2005, 03:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What guy in his right mind would go to a place where he can routinely expect his wife and kids to be sexually solicited? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cut it out. Nobody ever mentioned that anyone ever approached a kid.

DoctorSurferDude

08-23-2005, 04:55 PM

I'd go with you for some sleuthing CyndiAnn, except I'm stuck in Cali for now. Did you ever see the movie "undercover brother"? It's about spying...it's funny.

Anyways, I've been to Caliente a couple times. I've been to Paradise Lakes quite a few times. I've been to other resorts around FL and a couple in CA so far.

It's definately not blatant. I'll give credit to Caliente and Paradise Lakes for that. But compared to other resorts, there is definately a different "vibe" if you will. It's very subtle stuff, easy to miss. But it's there.

I've been indirectly solicited before, my g/f and I have been "studied" in the hot tub, I've heard "talk", I've outlined in pool conversations why nudism and swinging don't mix and had swinging defended to me as valid by other "nudists", I've seen others trying to act sexy or sit inappropriately for "show". There's stuff that goes on...it's subtle, but it's there and sometimes quite obvious if you just observe the scene like a wildlife scientist. And that sort of subtle activity I have not observed at other resorts I've been to, just those two, but mostly Paradise Lakes.

Caliente is still new and "moldable".....how will it be molded? In the footsteps of Paradise Lakes? I hope not...but I fear so.

Cypress Cove is an example of a family resort I guess.....comparing cypress cove to Caliente or Paradise Lakes.....it's different, just more "traditional" or whatever you want to call it.

barmonkey

08-23-2005, 07:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Question: Why do the nicest clubs always end up resorting to strippers, beauty pageants and lifestyles conventions?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a thought about this...Perhaps the nicest clubs really do need the extra income that these activities bring in. A resort like Caliente has quite an overhead, but yet the grounds fees are about the same as any rustic resort. And the hotel rooms are reasonably priced too. So the sexually charged Friday and Saturday nights allows for an affordable nicer family resort the rest of the week.

I don't necessarily agree with this. It's just a thought.

08-24-2005, 03:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barmonkey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Question: Why do the nicest clubs always end up resorting to strippers, beauty pageants and lifestyles conventions?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a thought about this...Perhaps the nicest clubs really do need the extra income that these activities bring in. A resort like Caliente has quite an overhead, but yet the grounds fees are about the same as any rustic resort. And the hotel rooms are reasonably priced too. So the sexually charged Friday and Saturday nights allows for an affordable nicer family resort the rest of the week.

I don't necessarily agree with this. It's just a thought. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the swingers have more disposable income than the nudists do and spend more. It's certainly been said covertly by the employees at Paradise.

I was told that it was the nudists that snuck out into the parking lots to eat out of their cars while the swingers buy food and drinks in abundance.

SunGod

08-24-2005, 08:08 AM

I really dont see what the big deal is!!

I. Were nudists, we all approve of nudity and being nude, so to stick our noses up at young ladies for getting naked at a nudists club, I think thats fairly hypocritical. Most conservative people look down on strippers because they believe nudity is wrong, nudity leads to sex and sex is wrong and all that. You folks approve of the strippers nudity, but are going off because you think the manner in which the stippers get nude is wrong. hahaha. GIMME A BREAK!

II. No children (or underage) are solicited by swingers at Calinete or Paradise Lakes. Shame Trailscout for trying to insinuate that with no evidence AT ALL to back you up. My fiance and I have been hit on nuuuumerous times, @ resorts in the Carib, on Haulover, and other textile beaches. We decline, smile, "thanks but no thanks" and party on. Its not the end of the world if folks going back to their own "private" rooms to bang eachother or a group, invite you to join them. Its going to be ok, life goes on. You might even take it as a compliment. And just for the record, you can be a nudist and a swinger. Its possible http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

III. There is no conspiracy going in where swingers make more $$$ then nudist and so thats who the resorts cater too. The resorts cater to those who come and spend their money, like any other business. Remember that the swingers have to show off and spend lots of $$$ so folks notice, they're trying to hook up afterall http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (ok, I'm kidding, but its probably true) If the AANR doesnt like it, they can revoke their seal of approval from Caliente and I promise the resorts balance sheet would not look any worse. Personally, I think the AANR is pretty useless anyhow.

IV. If there is a "sexy vibe" at Caliente, and I think there is, (only been twice though), good! Everyone likes to feel sexy. Its a good thing. Even when your not looking to have it, it nice to feel sexy.

Hooked

08-24-2005, 09:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SunGod:
I really dont see what the big deal is!!

I. Were nudists, we all approve of nudity and being nude, so to stick our noses up at young ladies for getting naked at a nudists club, I think thats fairly hypocritical. Most conservative people look down on strippers because they believe nudity is wrong, nudity leads to sex and sex is wrong and all that. You folks approve of the strippers nudity, but are going off because you think the manner in which the stippers get nude is wrong. hahaha. GIMME A BREAK!

----------------------------------------------
But uh...aren't strippers supposed to be sexy/sexual/excite sexual desire in the audience? I thought that was the whole point. Stripping also involves body movements, innuendo, and many other theatrical components to communicate a sexual theme, none of which would be appreciated or allowed in a place other than at a strip club. I think it's unfair to say that just because it's a nudist resort, any sort of nudity should be allowed. Would it be ok to allow people to openly masturbate all over the place because, hey, they are nude and all forms of nudity are allowed at a nudist resort? No, of course not. When people I know think about wanting to visit the local nudist club, they are expecting an environment free from sexual stress and when that expectation is knocked, it ruins it for a lot of people, especially newbies.
----------------------------------------------

IV. If there is a "sexy vibe" at Caliente, and I think there is, (only been twice though), good! Everyone likes to feel sexy. Its a good thing. Even when your not looking to have it, it nice to feel sexy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true, I can't deny that. (never been to caliente)

DoctorSurferDude

08-24-2005, 09:29 AM

I don't think there should be a "sexy vibe" at any nudist establishment. I think encouraging nighttime activities like strippers, lingere parties, etc. only encourages and reenforces that vibe.

The term "nudist" is already attached to a lot of misconceptions in this culture. If it is to ever be viewed as valid and decent activity by the general population we must do our best to protect it's reputation. Caliente, in my opinion, is disregarding this responsibility in lieu of $$$$$. And the sad part is that they are currently the USA's largest and most famous resort.

I had higher hopes for Caliente, and they are disappointing me thus far. I had hoped it would not become another Paradise Lakes all over again, but the trend is becoming painfully obvious....and it's only been 2 years.

Hooked

08-24-2005, 09:52 AM

What is the deal, it seems like extremes are coming into play here. On the one hand you have Natura, which scares the crap outta me. No offense to any strong belief holding Christians/Fundies. And on the other hand, you have Ponderosa, which apparently is a glorified strip club, basically a strip club that allows the audience to strip too. Why do we have these extremes? Maybe I'm just a fence sitter but it seems to me that the best nudist resort would not have extremely restricting covenants (i.e. no tattoos, etc) but wouldn't be so loose as to allow strippers and other forms of Adult Only entertainment. That's how the resorts have been that I have gone to, I wouldn't feel comfortable in either of the other two places.

08-24-2005, 11:55 AM

I see it that Caliente is attempting to attract women to the resort.
Caliente figures once the women get there, they would see the resort grounds, perhaps meet some people, and generally be influenced to become members.

In my single days (and before I had truly identified the clothes free lifestyle), I tended to visit a club (Chez Paris) when I was on holiday in Montreal. It was a sexual atmosphere with the female dancers.
However, in talking to one of the women; she advised that she was at ease with her nudity, because she practiced it in her life.
On a different occasion, it crossed my mind that under different circumstances (i.e.- a different location like a beach)I could easily have removed my clothes and also been at ease. There was nothing sexual in this thought. Just a matter of comfort. Perhaps, the women had positively influenced me to eventually pursue a clothes free lifestyle.

shomymojo

08-24-2005, 12:08 PM

nothing seductive about the way I take my clothes off...i just drop em...LOL http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

True Brit

08-24-2005, 01:55 PM

The idea of a theme night with strippers entertaining its members has been with us for a couple of years now in the UK. This is usually the first signs of a move towards a swinging scene.

Swinging is a far greater revenue earner than naturism, single men who have a greater disposable income are encouraged to come and meet couples, this is revenue that can be earned all through the year, unlike some naturist clubs closing for winter.
Naturism and Swinging side by side, can it co-exist, from what i have seen No!! genuine naturists end up leaving in disgust!! my experience i have just about seen everything, nothing more could shock me!!

A room full of men being entertained by a stripper with all of those men naked with erections. not a pleasant sight!!

I yearn to be able to play shuffleboard naked or volleyball but instead i'm invited to a strip show or a couple will approach me to come and play with them in the private area, this is not what as a naturist i want to do.

Believe me the swingers have come out of the closet and are taking over the clubs, in the UK we have lost a couple of very good clubs to the scene, for me this means further travelling to other clubs, time i do not have.

Associations can do little, apart from taking away its membership. When the big clubs and resorts move away from the traditional naturist environment towards these new style clubs you can be sure our image and reputation that generations past have struggled to earn will be mudded, textiles & the media will always view swingers and naturists togethor in the same boat.

The naturist club scene is very much under threat!! Be Warned.

BackpackerBrian

08-24-2005, 05:00 PM

What I find the most disturbing about all this talk of strippers and swingers and such is not the actual excitement one gets from strippers or swingers. Rather, what to me is most disturbing is WHY do we need this excitement in the first place??

Nudism is about simplicity. As a culture and community, we've always stressed that people are welcome for who they are, without regard for the clothes they wear, job they perform or money they make. There is an equalizing, simplistic value to nudism.

Conversely, in general society, there is an increasing loss of "balance" as average square footages of homes has increased 300% over the past 40 years, people need new cars, designer labels, live in the "right" neighborhood, network with other high-flying professionals and have luxury vacations.

At the same time, people are chronically unhappy. Credit card debt and personal bankruptcies are at an all-time high, mental health medications are rampant and obesity is a major health problem.

We gotta have more, more, more, and are never happy with simplicity. Naturism SHOULD be an escape from all that insanity, and offer a healthy alternative.

Perhaps Caliente has to offer "luxury" in the first place because it markets to those people who aren't happy with good people, good conversation, a pool and volleyball. Perhaps it markets to those who are not happy with themselves and are trying to find something in Life that will make them happy . . . but it's never enough.

Instead of blasting Caliente and it's stripper and swinger scene, maybe we should have more compassion for those who feel they need it. Naturism doesn't have to try to be exciting. Simple is fine with me http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DoctorSurferDude

08-24-2005, 06:33 PM

So, I could be wrong, but this is my assesment of the "we are trying to attract females" theory. Women, for the most part, don't really care for male strippers. Women who are interested in nudism would also be hypersensitive to any "sexually charged" environment, because it is enough vunerability to feel exposed without having to worry about being hit on by swingers. If they want to attract women, OFFER DISCOUNTS, and make the environment one that would make a woman feel unthreatened.

True Brit....that is quite a nightmare story. I'm quite sure that wouldn't happen in the USA...not so much because of AANR, but because of state laws, religious groups already do their best to shut down resorts, if that kind of activity happened here, it would surely tip the scales. We are just not as free as it seems...in this case, thankfully so.

BackpackerBrian....good perspective as always, I totally agree. Nudism is about simplicity....it's fundamentally engrained. If we ignore fundamentals, we undermine the ideal of nudism itself.

SunGod

08-25-2005, 07:13 AM

"men naked with erections" !!!!! hahahaha. You mean we dont have enough now?

Ok, I'm totally kidding.

Wait a minute.....you guys convinced me. Its contrary to the message of nudism.

Whereas I would like to see more strippers at nudist resorts (for aesthetic reasons), I guess it should be during their off hours. Not working. Just sunning, or playing v-ball. Its that mental image of a room full of erections that really changed my mind, I cant picture that @ Caliente or anywhere I'd want to be. I certainly bust pervs for walking around popping wood @ Haulover.

Kenv

08-26-2005, 03:39 AM

We've been to Caliente a couple of times and in fact, are planning another trip in Oct. The second time we were there we were approached by a swinging couple. We declined of course and watched them later leave with another couple. This summer, we were approached again at our local club.
In any case, the point I'm trying to make is that it does exist in the nudist world. Maybe in a higher percentage than true naturists want to admit. I hope, as it has been said by others, that they don't take over the clubs that we like to go to. I hope that the managements of those clubs can keep it in control.
I'm not saying tht they should be driven out, just held to a standard of privacy. I have no problem with that. Do what you want to do(and your friends I guess) "in the privacy of your own home" kind of thinking.

08-26-2005, 05:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Women, for the most part, don't really care for male strippers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. The male strippers were very popular in all the various places I've lived.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Women who are interested in nudism would also be hypersensitive to any "sexually charged" environment, because it is enough vunerability to feel exposed without having to worry about being hit on by swingers. If they want to attract women, OFFER DISCOUNTS, and make the environment one that would make a woman feel unthreatened. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A discount isn't going to make a woman with severe anxiety about nudity around strangers change her mind, no way, no how. And until she actually went she'd not know about the environment.

BackpackerBrian

08-28-2005, 09:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by True Brit:
The idea of a theme night with strippers entertaining its members has been with us for a couple of years now in the UK. This is usually the first signs of a move towards a swinging scene.

Swinging is a far greater revenue earner than naturism, single men who have a greater disposable income are encouraged to come and meet couples, this is revenue that can be earned all through the year, unlike some naturist clubs closing for winter.

The naturist club scene is very much under threat!! Be Warned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Georgia one former naturist club has already gone swinger. The Grove (http://pleasuregroveresort.com/) is big in the swinger scene, and bills itself on the website as "A Unique Adults-Only Clothing Optional Resort." Doesn't mention the harness in the clubhouse though . . .

One can see how it could be easily confused as representing nudism in general to those uninformed. It's sad that many first timers I have talked to at my club in GA mention they researched other local clubs, and The Grove is one they heard about. Very dangerous indeed!! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

08-29-2005, 04:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by True Brit:

Swinging is a far greater revenue earner than naturism, single men who have a greater disposable income are encouraged to come and meet couples, this is revenue that can be earned all through the year, unlike some naturist clubs closing for winter.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it's different in the UK but in the US single guys experience a lot more discrimination in swinging than they do nudism.

NudistGuy47

08-29-2005, 04:49 AM

Brian: Is the Grove the old Mountain Grove club? I visited there when I lived in Atlanta and enjoyed the club, but have not been back since 1996.

DoctorSurferDude

08-29-2005, 09:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe it's different in the UK but in the US single guys experience a lot more discrimination in swinging than they do nudism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....I had no idea. That's a good thing, right?

So here's the bottom line....for me....

Caliente is a beautiful resort, I met some very nice people there, and the pool is really fun to swim in.

Would I visit again? Sure, but I'd rather find a better place.

Would I JOIN the resort? No

Why? I don't feel their best interest is in promoting nudism, and I'd rather be limited when it comes to promoting their pockets.

08-29-2005, 11:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DoctorSurferDude:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe it's different in the UK but in the US single guys experience a lot more discrimination in swinging than they do nudism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....I had no idea. That's a good thing, right?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Swinging is almost exclusively a couples "hobby". That's what cracks me up about how the nudist resorts think the singles are the ones making advances and how they treat them like outcasts. Read the posts in just this thread and you will see every single person that said they were approached for sex commented that it was a couple that did it, not a single.

Is it a good thing? Depends on who you are referring to. The single guys don't think so!

BackpackerBrian

08-29-2005, 02:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NudistGuy47:
Brian: Is the Grove the old Mountain Grove club? I visited there when I lived in Atlanta and enjoyed the club, but have not been back since 1996. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, NudistGuy, that's it. I couldn't think of the name when I was posting. Thanks for reminding me. Was it swinger at all when you were there??

NakedGary

08-29-2005, 03:04 PM

Nudist explorer listing for Georga:

Georgia
Naturist association sand non-landed clubs

Bare Buddies
http://www.cybernude.com/clubs/bareb

Resorts, clubs, camps

The Banana Patch
http://www.bananabanana.com

Bell Acres
http://www.bellacres.com
http://www.cybernude.com/parks/bell

Hidden Valley Resort
http://www.hiddenvalley.org

Mountain Creek Grove
http://www.cybernude.com/resorts/mtncreek

Serendipity Park
http://www.serendipity-park.com

Mountian grove Creek is a AANR/TNS club

Hidden valley no longer on the web and is diverted to a Adult Club, the ISP says lack of Payment. Strange?

I mention that to INA admin to get it off Nudist Explorer as it links to a adult resort now.

INA/Nudist Explorer (http://www.nudistexplorer.com/)

.

NudistGuy47

08-29-2005, 03:06 PM

Brian,

Unless I was totally blind and clueless, I did not see, hear, or witness any questionable behavior at the club while I visited. But then, I am very near-sighted and can be hard-of-hearing, so I might have missed something. (I may have even been approached and didn't even know it! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

DoctorSurferDude

08-29-2005, 03:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Swinging is almost exclusively a couples "hobby". That's what cracks me up about how the nudist resorts think the singles are the ones making advances and how they treat them like outcasts. Read the posts in just this thread and you will see every single person that said they were approached for sex commented that it was a couple that did it, not a single. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good point. But it doesn't really account for behavior too often present at nude beaches, predominantly a single male issue and far worse than any swinger advances I've ever experienced. I think resorts fear that, so they limit the # of single males.

My issue isn't with swingers or strippers themselves. What bothers me is that these major resorts tolerate that kind of behavior and seemingly encourage it by the "events" they choose to have on their calendar. I don't like that. Nudism deserves a better face.

NakedGary

08-29-2005, 04:38 PM

No reason to have brass poles for strippers or suggestive sexual demonstrations in the lounge or nightclub section of a family orientated nudist or clothing optional sanctioned resort, other than promotion of suggestive sexual activities and dance.

BackpackerBrian

08-29-2005, 04:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
Mountain Creek Grove
http://www.cybernude.com/resorts/mtncreek

Mountian grove Creek is a AANR/TNS club

Hidden valley no longer on the web and is diverted to a Adult Club, the ISP says lack of Payment. Strange?

I mention that to INA admin to get it off Nudist Explorer as it links to a adult resort now.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Mountain Creek Grove link is ancient . . . Cybernude hasn't been updated in YEARS. Was good for me in college, but dormant at least 5 years. Mountain Creek Grove is no longer an AANR/TNS club, but has changed into a swinger place. NudistGuy must have been there before it went swinger.

Hidden Halley still exists but now called Paradise Valley; it is AANR/TNS and happens to be my club http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Website is http://www.paradisevalleyresorts.com

I concur with Doc regarding both points he mentioned above. I prefer clubs because there is a level of "protection" that is not there at beaches, and swingers I've met don't push the limits like some pervs at beaches. Rules and a screening process help.

As far as the events that clubs/resorts book, well, I avoid the clubs which don't adhere to my values. That's basically all I can do.

usuallylurk

08-29-2005, 04:45 PM

Try this link -

http://www.paradisevalleyresorts.com

That one works.

The best resources for information on clubs and groups - if they're AANR affiliates - go to the AANR source =

http://www.aanr.com -- for the most part, there is direct communication between the clubs and AANR (if they're AANR-affiliated).

There is no connection between many (maybe most) clubs and many independent web resources and as a result rhe information might be stale. On the other hand, AANR clubs will keep their web links up to date with the AANR webmaster(s) . Many AANR clubs don't even know about the INA.

You might also try

http://www.naturistsociety.com - which lists all groups in the Naturist (society) network.

It looks like Hidden Valley let their old domain name lapse - because they haven't used the name "Hidden Valley" in 2-3 years, but a lot of independent / wildcat search engines out there will still find it. A lot of "nudist resource web pages" still link to it. So someone else is taking advantage of it.

I set up a web page around 12 years ago for a club. In 1997, I migrated to its own domain.

But I left the old URL up, to divert people to the right place. It still gets 20-30 hits a month after having been phased out seven years ago.

Advice to any webmasters - if you change your names, keep your old domains.

usuallylurk

08-29-2005, 04:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:

Mountian grove Creek is a AANR/TNS club

Hidden valley no longer on the web and is diverted to a Adult Club, the ISP says lack of Payment. Strange?
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mountain Grove Creek is no longer an AANR or TNS club. It hasn't been for a couple years now. When it changed its mode of operation from a family park to an "adult lifestyle" park, they surrendered their AANR club charter and if they ever had a TNS affiliation they most certainly would have withdrawn from the Naturist Network.

It is immediately adjacent to Serendipity Park, which continues as a (fine!) family-oriented park. Very friendly folks, wonderful owners.

Hidden Valley now is known as Paradise Valley. Link in another one of my posts above.

For best results and most up-to date info on clubs =

http://www.aanr.com and http://www.naturistsociety.com

BackpackerBrian

08-29-2005, 07:15 PM

I guess when it comes down to it, for me what I find disappointing is that these clubs feel like they have to exploit nudity.

Why is that?? What's to exploit?? I feel like I'm pretty darn lucky that I can be with my friends nude and not be insecure or vulnerable.

Isn't the non-exploitation of nudity one of the pillars of nudism?? If we have clubs that betray that, what is that saying about the future of nudism??

barenaked1

08-29-2005, 07:45 PM

I totally agree. This pushes our cause to the extreme. There is no reason for this but for the fact that Caliente is trying to draw from a large crowd of testiles.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barbararuth:
Caliente is not your typical family-oriented nudist resort. They have set themselves apart by providing amenities that may cater to the younger, more financially secure nudist on vacation. Unlike many resorts, the nightclubs and restaurants are alive and kicking at night with lots of sexually-charged activities.. sexy lingerie parties, male strippers, etc. They are undoubtedly designed as entertainment.

As nudists, we may look at it as "going against the ideals of naturism" in the purest sense, but I believe the resort is more concerned with filling rooms and packing the club at night. I believe that pure naturism takes a back seat here to entrepreneurism! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

08-30-2005, 10:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DoctorSurferDude:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe it's different in the UK but in the US single guys experience a lot more discrimination in swinging than they do nudism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....I had no idea. That's a good thing, right?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's definitely not a good thing that you had no idea. You should know who is visiting the nudist clubs, and understand them.

This is why I stay tuned in by belonging to that yahoo group, the one the swingers who go to Caliente and Paradise have.

BackpackerBrian

08-30-2005, 03:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
[QUOTE]You should know who is visiting the nudist clubs, and understand them. This is why I stay tuned in by belonging to that yahoo group, the one the swingers who go to Caliente and Paradise have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me Cyndiannaked, but you got me bursting laughing at that one http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

he he he he he he

08-30-2005, 03:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BackpackerBrian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
[QUOTE]You should know who is visiting the nudist clubs, and understand them. This is why I stay tuned in by belonging to that yahoo group, the one the swingers who go to Caliente and Paradise have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me Cyndiannaked, but you got me bursting laughing at that one http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

he he he he he he </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

Baron Lake

08-30-2005, 04:28 PM

Rhetorical question Cyndi? Subtlety is wasted on this forum. You should know that by now.
b.l.

08-30-2005, 06:30 PM

They are in all our clubs. Therefore we should know what makes them tick. I don't know how a nudist can make decisions about them and going to clubs and whatever when you aren't informed. I've seen a lot of misconceptions on this site about swingers.

My question was an honest one and I'm confused by Brian's response as well as yours.

Sorry, I'm definitely not into being subtle. I believe in saying what you feel out loud.

Daveinct

09-01-2005, 05:16 AM

A few somewhat random thoughts.

Has anyone confirmed if these are actually strippers? Caliente's site describes it as a "Las Vegas stlye" revue. That doesn't necessarily mean strippers. Many Las Vegas shows involve nudity, but not strippers.

Swingers are everywhere. They might be your next door neighbors. You might work with some. You might even sit next to one in church. You could be propositioned in your neighborhood bar or grocery store. The horror over being propositioned by swingers amuses me in the same way some men are horrified at the thought of being propositioned by a gay man. All you gotta do is say no. They're not forcing people to join them, are they? Yes, it should be behind closed doors, or at least out of sight of those who don't want to see, but I think some of the reaction here is a bit overboard.

I don't get the great concern over what the general public thinks about nudists and naturists. If, as we believe, the general public has misconceptions about nudism/naturism, they've had them for a long time, and we haven't gone away. We've had places to be nude for decades despite what the general public thinks (or what we think they think) of us. Haven't I read that there are more resorts/beaches available to us now than any time in at least the last hundred years? I, for one, don't care what the general public thinks about what I eat, what I read, what music I listen to, what I think, or what I do or don't do as a nudist/naturist.

Is the general public flocking to Caliente to see what nudists are up to?

I just don't see the sky falling if Caliente has a "Las Vegas style" revue. If you don't want to see it, don't go. If you see people openly having sex and don't want to, don't watch, and report it to security or management.

It seems pretty simple to me, and I don't think all the hand-wringing is necessary or justified.

Dave

BackpackerBrian

02-07-2006, 02:25 PM

Hmmmm, in a world where clubs SHOULD try to differentiate their offerings, it seems imitation is the norm. In this case, Paradise Lakes is now promoting male strippers, again lowering the standards. See below.
---------------------------------------
Giving our Ladies the special attention that they deserve!

Fresh from Channelside…Thursday, February 9th, 8:30 – 10:30 p.m.
Male Review

Just for Paradise Ladies

Join us in L’Attitudes where the drinks are cold and the men are hot! We will have an excellent time enjoying our “special” entertainment. Gather all your girlfriends and make it a special Ladies Night Out! Call Michelle at 949.9327 ext. 320 to reserve a table. Gentlemen may join us later in the evening….

after we’re all warmed up!

************************************************** ************************************

DenitaLC

02-07-2006, 07:39 PM

Dave: I like and agree with your "random thoughts". We visited Caliente last June, had a wonderful time and plan to return when time/finances allow. (It's a long trip from WA State!)

At that time, there were advertisements for the Male Review. This was a ticketed event so obviously if a person didn't want to see it, then you'd think they wouldn't buy a ticket!

It just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me and I don't think any less of Caliente for hosting such an event. We found it a very nice resort and would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a nice nudist vacation spot.

:-)
Dee