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Backyardswimmer
01-11-2007, 08:09 AM
Anyone here write about your opinions about the superbowl incident of Janet Jackson?I think that here the Americans over reacted, and made a big deal about this, when it's not that important.Do you guys think like if this happened in europe like in Croatia, Czech, or France prople wouldn't even talk at all about this or mention on TV since there acustomed to nudity?

Backyardswimmer
01-11-2007, 08:09 AM
Anyone here write about your opinions about the superbowl incident of Janet Jackson?I think that here the Americans over reacted, and made a big deal about this, when it's not that important.Do you guys think like if this happened in europe like in Croatia, Czech, or France prople wouldn't even talk at all about this or mention on TV since there acustomed to nudity?

Pete Knight
01-11-2007, 08:51 AM
It was on the TV news over here, pictures in all the papers, the gossip magazines, it really wasn't a big deal, what WAS a big deal was the US reaction to one nipple, it more or less confirmed what we always thought,..... you Yanks are barking!!!!!

A couple of years ago they had some of Yoko Ono's art displayed on the streets of Liverpool, every lighting column all down Lord Street had a banner with the pubic area or the breasts of a woman, no storms of complaint there!!

Who are these puritanical people that complain in the US, and why do the authorities listen to them? Blimey, you'll be compelled by law to put covers on table legs soon.

Pete Knight

xgsft
01-11-2007, 09:01 AM
This just shows how rediculous people in the US can be over a unclad body part. The problem is we have a large fundamentalist population and alot of these people are very repressed in this and a few other areas. Now, in addition to repressing themselves they feel they need to do the same with thier surroundings. Unfortunantly, all this crap is dumped on those who just don't want to live that way.

BlobbyBob
01-11-2007, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Knight:
A couple of years ago they had some of Yoko Ono's art displayed on the streets of Liverpool, every lighting column all down Lord Street had a banner with the pubic area or the breasts of a woman, no storms of complaint there!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All I saw was a piece on the north-west news calling it controversial. I was in Liverpool most week days during the time they were up and was pleasantly surprised that there wasn't a problem with them. I saw hundreds, maybe thousands of people walking past them, and none were in emotional distress or anything else from having seen them.

Dick Springer
01-11-2007, 10:20 AM
The thing that has impressed me about Janet Jackson is that she never apologized about the incident, unlike the wimpy Justin Timberlake.

Pete Knight
01-11-2007, 10:27 AM
What's to apologise about, its not as it were an obscene act, just a boob!!

Pete Knight

BlobbyBob
01-11-2007, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Knight:
What's to apologise about, its not as it were an obscene act, just a boob!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And obscured mostly by a piercing anyway, and on screen for about half a second. Ridiculous.

Nude in the North
01-11-2007, 01:20 PM
I hear Prince will be performing at the next superbowl.

I hope he comes out "Bare Chested" , or atleast has an open front shirt on.

Steve

smoothmike
01-12-2007, 03:46 AM
Janet did not apologize because it was a deliberate action on both their part. ive seen some clear footage of the incident and its clear it was planned, no piece of clothing (especially leather or vinyl) will rip away that easily unless designed to. You would even have trouble with a cotton shirt. Think about this.... if it were an accident wouldn't Janet have covered up in a hurry? also in case you didnt know, Janet tans and hangs out around her home in the nude.

Pete Knight
01-12-2007, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smoothmike:
Janet did not apologize because it was a deliberate action on both their part. ive seen some clear footage of the incident and its clear it was planned, no piece of clothing (especially leather or vinyl) will rip away that easily unless designed to. You would even have trouble with a cotton shirt. Think about this.... if it were an accident wouldn't Janet have covered up in a hurry? also in case you didnt know, Janet tans and hangs out around her home in the nude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, good for Janet, she has gone up in my estimation after reading that she dresses sensibly at home.

Pete Knight

Boreas
01-12-2007, 10:39 AM
I saw an interview with Janet and she said that there was supposed to be a layer of red left behind when the leather was ripped. Even with this information, I see no reason why she needs to apologize.

John P
01-13-2007, 09:27 AM
The original question was
Anyone here write about your opinions about the Superbowl incident of Janet Jackson?

Yes, I wrote about my opinions when there was an active thread about this topic back in November. It was in "Nudes in the News":

http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6880058...760012264#2760012264 (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6880058252/m/7180034164?r=2760012264#2760012264)

As I see it the real issue is what ought to be legal on television, and if there's something that's likely to offend people, do the TV companies have an obligation to warn the audience in advance? In that Superbowl case, there was a performance by a stripper (Janet Jackson) in the middle of a daytime football game. Should that be legal? I say it shouldn't. Half a million people sent in complaints to the FCC saying the same.

Several people here don't seem to agree, but I'd like to see a general statement about what, if anything, ought to be illegal on broadcast TV. The FCC says "No unexpected boobs in football games". If there's an alternative, let's hear it.

Imagine if the network had said "During the halftime show, there will be a brief performance by a stripper." Somehow I think they'd shut down their company before they'd do that. Yet the performance itself went ahead and they're defending their right to do it. Funny world.

Rabid_Clam
01-13-2007, 11:54 AM
First, that happened ages ago and that is where it belongs, ages ago. And yes it was grossly over rated and over reacted upon. Was just a simply little breast that became exposed. Big deal !!! How ho hum can anythning get and how much can you maek this mountain up over a mole hill ? We are at war on two fronts, the Presidency is in dire straights, there are two other nations making nuclear weapons that simply do not need them and you are worried over a breast being exposed on one TV channel for only a few seconds?

Someone needs to get a life.

Nu
01-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Frankly, the whole half-time show turned my stomach and those of my visiting friend (male) and my wife.

The show was full of sexual body actions that should be seen only at strip clubs or intimate one-on-one, private time involving a close couple.
Definitely, not appropriate for prime time TV.

Moreover, Justin Timberlake's raking, grabbing action that revealed the breast, seemed very violent.

WNYjoe17
01-13-2007, 12:22 PM
John P.
She was not a stripper. Any more than you and I as nudists are strippers. She is comfortable in her body.
By the same token, I don't beleive his was a "wardrobe malfunction." And that's where the "right" to do this becomes at issue. I think contect does wonders. We, as nudists don't see a problem with a breast being seen on TV. BUT it comes down to how we see it. Is is just a woman walking down the beach with her husband? Or someone getting changed? Or it is violent and intended to cause shock?
Erections at a nudist camp (the ever famous issue here) are the same. Biologically, they happen. So does urinating. But sporting an erection like your body is controlled by your hormones is wrong. If you have to urinate, you find a rest room. If you have an erection, you roll over, grab a towel, etc. And don't make a big deal of it.
We will never know for sure who DID and DID not know about it in advance. But their intent was to titillate and/or shock.

Joe

K and C
01-13-2007, 12:46 PM
I thought this subject was buried a long time ago. Who cares it was a boob. It's over! My daughter laughed at what had happened it didnt make her cringe with disgust. She was 6 at the time. The only reason a big deal was made of it was because adults made it a big deal. How can we expect to be accepted as nudist if we can't even see a boob on tv without an uproar. Including those who are nudist.

Pete Knight
01-13-2007, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nu:
Frankly, the whole half-time show turned my stomach and those of my visiting friend (male) and my wife.

The show was full of sexual body actions that should be seen only at strip clubs or intimate one-on-one, private time involving a close couple.
Definitely, not appropriate for prime time TV.

Moreover, Justin Timberlake's raking, grabbing action that revealed the breast, seemed very violent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did anyone phone in to complain about the sexually suggestive gyrating dance routines, no but the moment a nipple is exposed the phone lines are alive with complaints, seems like the priorities are a little distorted here.

Pete Knight

smoothmike
01-13-2007, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Did anyone phone in to complain about the sexually suggestive gyrating dance routines, no but the moment a nipple is exposed the phone lines are alive with complaints, seems like the priorities are a little distorted here.

Pete Knight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree on this one, Why dont people complain about tv commercials and music video clips and movies with sexual undertones. one only has to look at the jessica simpson video clip "these boots are made for walkin'" from "dukes of hazard" then tell us its not sexual.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> We will never know for sure who DID and DID not know about it in advance. But their intent was to titillate and/or shock.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we need a shock every now and again to make people realize that we are all human, even celebrities.

John P
01-13-2007, 09:34 PM
Quoting WNYjoe17's first and last sentences:

She was not a stripper.
and
But their intent was to titillate and/or shock.

I'd call that a rough definition of what a stripper does. And that's what she was. It looks as if by the time he reached the end of his message, Joe had forgotten how he began it.

In the middle of his message, Joe makes some sense, recognizing the importance of context. Of course body exposure by naturists isn't offensive, but as he says, "Or it is violent and intended to cause shock?" Well yes, the performance did have violent overtones and was intended to cause shock. It was a glorious success, people were indeed shocked! And they let the FCC know about it.

So Joe, you seem to have started out trying to disagree but ended up agreeing instead. Now were people right to complain, and was the FCC right to hit the network with a fine? I say yes and yes.

K and C--there's a lot that children don't think is disgusting that adults want no part of. I don't have kids but I was once 6 years old, and I remember. And as I keep trying to say and too many people prefer not to acknowledge, the issue isn't that there was a breast, but that there was a stripper. Ignore that part of the story, and you've made it clear that you don't want to think about what annoyed people.

I expect people do complain about TV material that features sexual innuendo. But it's hard to launch a prosecution when something just sets a mood; much easier if the show includes flashing of erogenous zones.

Unwired
01-13-2007, 09:54 PM
The problem wasn't the half-second flash of a glitter-adorned and sequined areola. The problem wasn't the draconian fines imposed by the FCC. Hell, the problem wasn't even the fact that our government (which can't balance a budget to save its life, enact meaningful anti-terror legislation at the time, or address the health care of its citizens) moved with what had to be record-breaking, lightning fast speed to show just how tough on "broadcast indecency" they were. No, the problem is that this society is so skewed, twisted, and phobic not just of the human body but of everything else, that a publicity stunt by an aging, has-been pop star...the half-second exposure of a nipple...could cause us to lose our frigging minds. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/freak.gif

John P
01-14-2007, 01:07 PM
Lightning fast? As I write this I believe the Super Bowl is on TV. (I'm not one who calls it interesting, let alone important.) And the Janet Jackson incident, if I'm recalling rightly, was 3 years ago, or was it only 2? Yet the case is still grinding through the courts.

Maybe lightning is slower in some places than others.

Unwired
01-14-2007, 01:54 PM
The ostentatious display of outrage over the incident was instantaneous; then the FCC levied a $550,000 fine in September of 2004. In the timescale of the workings of this government, that's warp speed. Granted, it wasn't until this past June that Congress finally passed the legislation that upped the maximum fine by a factor of ten, but that's because in that case, it did indeed take a long time to resolve whether each broadcast nipple should cost half a million dollars per station.

At any rate. I can't even be angry at them for any of this. This is the government we gave ourselves, and all they're doing is giving the people what they think we want. The FCC received half a million computer generated, Brent Bozell-facilitated form complaints, and by golly, they jumped! Did they also get half a million or more letters expressing a different viewpoint, like, say, "You know, what she did was silly but since neither me nor my kids are going to require counseling for the half-second view of her areola, how about not overreacting, OK?" I don't believe they did, because the squeaky wheel and all...so, when all they hear is how discombobulated we are by a breast, what do you expect.

As for Congress passing the tenfold fine increase (during an election year! what a coincedence!), again, I wouldn't expect anything else from a bunch of craven politicians who are scared to death of being labelled "soft on indecency!" by their opponents. Lord, I can imagine what kind of campaign ads we would have seen had any of them had the guts to vote against it out of principle. I maintain that the core of the problem is the fact that anyone would even be arguing whether the sight of a part of the human body is indecent, and the fact that a washed-up singer is even able to appropriate the "shock value" of flashing some skin to get publicity for her stalled career. We manufacture our own indecency, and sadly, business continues to boom.



UW

P.S. Super Bowl XLI will be held in Miami on Feb. 4. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

simonsebs
01-15-2007, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nude in the North:
I hear Prince will be performing at the next superbowl.

I hope he comes out "Bare Chested" , or atleast has an open front shirt on.

Steve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he'll perform in a pair of buttless pants, like he did on MTV a few years ago. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/laugh.gif

Rick_42
01-15-2007, 07:22 PM
I was much more offended by Kid Rock wearing the flag as a poncho.

Pantsfree
01-18-2007, 02:40 AM
It is a tremendous problem for American culture and very damaging for USA's image abroad, that it is considered indecent to show nudity and sex on television and yet it is no problem at all to show shooting, murder, violence and bloodshed. If you want to preserve the respect of good behaviour amongst people, it should be just opposite.

John P
01-19-2007, 05:46 PM
It's impossible to say how many of the half-million complaints were mass-produced. Some were, I'm sure. Many, I'm sure weren't.

But then not too much later (as I said in the earlier thread) there was a broadcast of the movie Saving Private Ryan, uncut. There were complaints about that, though nowhere close to 500000. And the FCC said that in a movie trying to depict soldiers in battle realistically, and with the warning that came at the start, it was perfectly OK. Once again, I think they were right.

Visit the FCC website and read what they say about indecent programming, and you'll see them talk a lot about the word "context". They're being smart; that's what it's all about.

People are so unwilling to face the awkward questions honestly! I want to hear someone say not just "They're getting crucified because of a nipple", but "They're getting crucified because of a nipple shown without warning during a daytime football game". It sounds a bit different when you tell the whole story.

And I'd like to see a response to my point that the network would never ever have told people in advance that the Jackson performance was going to occur. If people think it was OK, I'd like to hear someone say that taking responsibility for doing it would also be OK. Or maybe we believe that in order to be any fun, it all has to be nudges and winks and little kids smirking.

Unwired
01-19-2007, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John P:
It's impossible to say how many of the half-million complaints were mass-produced. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, yes and no:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Todd Shields , Activists Dominate Content Complaints, Mediaweek, December 06, 2004.

In an appearance before Congress in February, when the controversy over Janet Jackson's Super Bowl moment was at its height, Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael Powell laid some startling statistics on U.S. senators.

The number of indecency complaints had soared dramatically to more than 240,000 in the previous year, Powell said. The figure was up from roughly 14,000 in 2002, and from fewer than 350 in each of the two previous years. There was, Powell said, "a dramatic rise in public concern and outrage about what is being broadcast into their homes."

What Powell did not reveal-apparently because he was unaware-was the source of the complaints. According to a new FCC estimate obtained by Mediaweek, nearly all indecency complaints in 2003-99.8 percent-were filed by the Parents Television Council, an activist group.

This year, the trend has continued, and perhaps intensified.

Through early October, 99.9 percent of indecency complaints-aside from those concerning the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" during the Super Bowl halftime show broadcast on CBS- were brought by the PTC, according to the FCC analysis dated Oct. 1. (The agency last week estimated it had received 1,068,767 complaints about broadcast indecency so far this year; the Super Bowl broadcast accounted for over 540,000, according to commissioners' statements.)

The prominent role played by the PTC has raised concerns among critics of the FCC's crackdown on indecency. "It means that really a tiny minority with a very focused political agenda is trying to censor American television and radio," said Jonathan Rintels, president and executive director of the Center for Creative Voices in Media, an artists' advocacy group.

PTC officials disagree.

"I wish we had that much power," said Lara Mahaney, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles-based group. Mahaney said the issue should not be the source of complaints, but whether programming violates federal law prohibiting the broadcast of indecent matter when children are likely to be watching. "Why does it matter how the complaints come?" Mahaney said. "If the networks haven't done anything illegal, if they haven't done anything indecent, why do they care what we say?"

Powell, who said during the National Association of Broadcasters convention in Las Vegas in April that he was unsure how many complaints come from organized groups, addressed the question in an op-ed piece in The New York Times last Friday.

"Advocacy groups do generate many complaints, as our critics note, but that's not unusual in today's Internet world-that fact does not minimize the merits of the groups' concerns," Powell wrote.

Powell's fellow Republican commissioner, Kathleen Abernathy, last week said that the agency does not let the number or the sources of complaints determine its indecency findings. "As long as you're following precedents and the law, it shouldn't matter," Abernathy told Mediaweek.

At issue is a process that once relied upon aggrieved listeners and viewers contacting the FCC, but that increasingly is driven by organized groups with a focus on programming content. The FCC does not monitor programming for fear of assuming a role as national censor; it relies on complaints to initiate its indecency proceedings.

So far this year, the system has resulted in millions of dollars in settlements and proposed fines against broadcasters.

In such a system, even the number of complaints becomes an object of contention. For example, the agency on Oct. 12, in proposing fines of nearly $1.2 million against Fox Broadcasting and its affiliates, said it received 159 complaints against Married by America, which featured strippers partly obscured by pixilation.

But when asked, the FCC's Enforcement Bureau said it could find only 90 complaints from 23 individuals. (The smaller total was first reported by Internet-based TV writer Jeff Jarvis; Mediaweek independently obtained the Enforcement Bureau's calculation.)

And Fox, in a filing last Friday, told the FCC that it should rescind the proposed fines, in part because the low number of complaints fell far short of indicating that community standards had been violated.

"All but four of the complaints were identical-and only one complainant professed even to have watched the program," Fox said. It said the network and its stations had received 34 comments, "a miniscule total for a show that had a national audience of 5.1 million households."

Even as some question whether the FCC should let the views of 23 people lead to fines, others take the agency to task for routinely failing to account for many of the complaints it receives. "Over 4,000 people filed a complaint against Married by America. Where do the complaints go?" asked the PTC's Mahaney.

The PTC has worked hard to achieve its influence over broadcast content. Founded in 1995 by longtime conservative activist L. Brent Bozell III, it set out to make an impact in 2003, including what it called "a massive, coordinated and determined campaign" for more action by the FCC against broadcast indecency. "We delivered on that promise," Bozell said in the group's annual report.

The document listed tools developed by the PTC, including continual monitoring and archiving of broadcast network programs and "cutting-edge technology to make it easier for members to contact program sponsors, the FCC, or the networks directly with a simple click of the button."

The result, the group said, was "a more than 2,400 percent increase in online activism." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John P:
Visit the FCC website and read what they say about indecent programming, and you'll see them talk a lot about the word "context". They're being smart; that's what it's all about.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The problem is while the FCC-clearly in thrall to a right-wing pressure group-subjectively evaluates "context", broadcast stations are being intimidated (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41464-2004Nov10.html) nonetheless.

John P
01-22-2007, 08:18 AM
That article about how complaints to the FCC are generated was interesting. Thanks.

My mention of "Saving Private Ryan" doesn't seem to be making an impact. Nevertheless, I think it's important because it seems to back what the FCC says about the importance of "context". That time, they defied the complaints sent in by organized conservatives.

Strippers for entertainment, no. Possible "indecent" content in a realistic situation, as part of telling a story, yes. I say it looks as if they're taking the high road. And if that intimidates the TV companies, maybe it should.

Layton
01-23-2007, 10:34 PM
I think the whole censorship in America has been overdone... I think that people take nudism as a whole as being overly "sexual". If it is sexual in nature (such as pornography), then it should be left to adult that are actively seeking it and children should be protected from that. But look at Europe. (I am minoring in psychology and am currently enrolled in "Human Sexuality", a class that looks at all aspects of sex in humans) Europeans use sex, and nudism in everyday advertising. It is not uncommon to see a billboard or flyer in plain view of the general public that has a fully nude model in it. What is different about that and someone in America? Nothing. It is simply a cultural mindset that America has yet to accept. However, in class the other day, we had a discussion about European sex practices vs. American sex practices and the introduction of world communication integration (i.e. the internet)(While the conversation we had was talking about sex, I believe that nudity in general can be applied here accurately). My professor said that she feels that with the next few generations taking over American politics, we will see major changes in our censorship policies. Right now, the politicians have a stick up their as... butts, and until the next wave of politicians take over, we can expect to see the same thing... lots of censorships. The only reason that people in America find nudity so appealing sexually, is because it is off limits. The same applies to almost everything. It is not the nudity in itself that is so appealing to the average Joe, it is the fact that it is restricted and off limits. The Europeans have fewer decency laws, as well as drinking laws, and so both of those things are less of a problem for them. If the Americans would see this, then it wouldn't be as much of a problem for us, either.

BinCo
02-05-2007, 08:27 PM
This is the greatest cartoon about that whole bunch of baloney that I have ever seen. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I do and can also see the hipocrisy in the United States when it comes to nudity vs. violence.

hairyhomer
04-05-2008, 08:25 AM
Many people were offend by the female breast when shown on national TV during the supper bowl, but now ones seems to care about the female breast on Oprah, and just about every news channel when it is said to be a pregnant man. Are those not female breast just reduced by a surgical procedure and giving male hormone shots? So now they have become male breast on a female body (with female organs still intact) so it's legal to show on national TV with no FCC fines? I am confused!

CharlesLogan
04-08-2008, 04:52 PM
Hello to all,
Being new to this website, I was going to ask about what the general public's opinion of people being naked is. However, after reading all the comments concerning the superbowl incident, I see now that I should have already realized that there are many conservatives in this country who are not open to the slightest deviation from what is "proper" and "acceptable."
I, too, thought, "What's the big deal about what happened with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake??!!" Too many American are way too uptight over any body exposure.
Since I've been naked more and more at home, and after reading many posts on this website, I'm beginning to see how relaxing, natural, and how very healthy one can be nude. But I'll comment more on that in a later post.
To all of you who promote nudism and who support others in their pursuit of all the benefits of nakedness, keep up the good work.

CharlesLogan