When does nudity begin (or end)?

[Nudony]

The C/O versus nude debate brought a question to my mind. Where do you consider nudity to begin? In other words, at what state of undress do you consider someone to be "mostly nude" as opposed to "mostly dressed"? If question is unclear, I'll use some examples I've witnessed of partially clad people, and my reaction to it.

Sheer sarong: mostly nude
Non-sheer sarong: mostly dressed
Waist-long T-shirt: mostly nude
Thigh-long T-shirt: mostly dressed
Towel around hips: mostly nude
Sarong around hips: mostly dressed.

The second part of my question is: if you are part of a small crowd (20 people), and there are a couple of people with a waist-long T-shirt (i.e. bottomless), or towel around hips (i.e. topless), do you consider the situation to be C/O or nude? Or does every single person there HAVE to be 100% nude in order for you to consider the event as being "nude"?

[Nudony]

The C/O versus nude debate brought a question to my mind. Where do you consider nudity to begin? In other words, at what state of undress do you consider someone to be "mostly nude" as opposed to "mostly dressed"? If question is unclear, I'll use some examples I've witnessed of partially clad people, and my reaction to it.

Sheer sarong: mostly nude
Non-sheer sarong: mostly dressed
Waist-long T-shirt: mostly nude
Thigh-long T-shirt: mostly dressed
Towel around hips: mostly nude
Sarong around hips: mostly dressed.

The second part of my question is: if you are part of a small crowd (20 people), and there are a couple of people with a waist-long T-shirt (i.e. bottomless), or towel around hips (i.e. topless), do you consider the situation to be C/O or nude? Or does every single person there HAVE to be 100% nude in order for you to consider the event as being "nude"?

[FireProf]

I guess it would depend on the situation that those are wearing the articles you mentioned. I feel if you're wearing something whether a t-shirt or a sarong, you're mostly dressed regardless of whether it's sheer or not.

Towels & sarongs have purpose, you can sit on them while socializing or dining. Other than that, at a nudist resort/club, I don't really see the purpose of one, being nude while, laying out in the sun, getting in and out of the pool or spa, getting up to get a drink or go to the bathroom and putting a towel or sarong around their waist.

What is the point? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

So to answer your question, I'd say that all those you listed that are wearing something are mostly dressed. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and to answer your second question; Yes, I feel that everyone should be 100% nude at a nude only place or event, weather permitting, or I would consider it a C/O event. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Boreas]

I looked at the options listed and had this thought: if you were to wear any of those choices on a public street would you be mostly dressed or mostly nude?

What is the difference between a towel around the hips and a sarong around the hips?

[FireProf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
I looked at the options listed and had this thought: if you were to wear any of those choices on a public street would you be mostly dressed or mostly nude?

What is the difference between a towel around the hips and a sarong around the hips? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true, put in that context but we're talking about wearing these things in a place that people go so they don't have to wear anything but they still do. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and I was wondering the same thing, what is the difference between a towel or sarong around the hips? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Nu]

What is the difference between a towel around the hips and a sarong around the hips?[/QUOTE]


Perhaps, a sarong is fastened around the hips more securely than a towel?
A sarong is longer than a towel?

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and I was wondering the same thing, what is the difference between a towel or sarong around the hips? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I should have taken into account the fact that both vary in size. I was thinking specifically about my wife: the sarong she has is a long one; so when she wore it around her hips, it dropped down to her ankles. When she wore a towel, it only reached down mid-thigh. The difference is 60% coverage versus about 30%.

[need2Bnude]

I say if your covered, towel around the waist, long t-shirt, or even just shorts whether male or female; then your really not naked. But this is just my opinion and how I view it.

[nudeM]

I do not wear a sarong, but a wrap around that fastens with snaps. It is a little below mid-thigh length, and one can clearly see that there is nothing underneath (split side). So in this case, I would consider myself as nude with restrictions. Although I am not totally naked, I am not totally covered either. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Boreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nudeM:
I do not wear a sarong, but a wrap around that fastens with snaps. It is a little below mid-thigh length, and one can clearly see that there is nothing underneath (split side). So in this case, I would consider myself as nude with restrictions. Although I am not totally naked, I am not totally covered either. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was watching the movie "Death Becomes Her" last night. Isabel Rossalini (sp?) was wearing a necklace that covered her breasts and must have been glued to her in some way. She was naked underneath the necklace. She was also wearing a sarong around her hips and fairly clearly had nothing underneath it. She was "respectably" covered yet naked at the same time.

She would have appeared naked on a downtown street, yet clothed in a nude setting I am sure.

[andy_ma]

nudeM,

"nude with restrictions," love that! LOL! Just made me smile. I guess when you can't be nude, it's better to be "nude with restrictions." For me personally, in all of Nudony's scenarios, I wouldn't really feel nude or totally comfortable. However, I do agree with nudeM, if it weren't possible to be nude, the options listed might be the next best thing. Interesting conversation as usual Nudony . . . .

[jon_80]

I think you are only nude if you are wearing absolutely nothing. In my opinion, that includes shoes, too! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ranul]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jon_80:
I think you are only nude if you are wearing absolutely nothing. In my opinion, that includes shoes, too! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
what about rings,watches and glasses

[Nu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jon_80:
I think you are only nude if you are wearing absolutely nothing. In my opinion, that includes shoes, too! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wow, have you ever free hiked over large, sharp rock formations?

[jon_80]

Never said you shouldn't wear shoes if you really, really have to. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I only consider myself to be nude/naked if I'm wearing absolutely NOTHING, and that's my usual state of dress--or do my reading glasses keep me from being nude? http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[David77]

Also, if a person wears only their prescribed small transdermal medication patch on their arm, I consider them nude.

[Nudony]

The responses have been interesting so far. It seems that levels of nudity vary according to each individual perception; the consensus here, however, seems to be that one does not even begin to be nude until torso and lower body have been uncovered.

I personally think that the line is a bit blurrier. If you look at the "old skool" pic below: is one more nude than the other? Are they both dressed? Is that a C/O or nude situation? What if they're the only two people partially dressed at the resort at that point in time? Again, I don't think there are any right or wrong answers to theses questions; we're all going to perceive the situation slightly differently.

[ken0254]

After reading the posts, it almost seems that it all depends on the circumstances as to whether you are either naked or clothed. So far we have differing opinions to a woman wearing only a sarong fastened at the waist. Is this woman nude? Not in the strictest sense, especially what WE as nudists might consider nude or naked. However take this same attired woman and have her seen by a non-nudist in the same situation, and the opinion might be totally different. ORRRRR, if this same woman is presented in the same attire in a more public venue, the opinion might be different by BOTH nudist and non-nudist alike. Although, in a public venue, her attire would likely be more tolerated by the nudist than the non-nudist.

Nudony, where did you get the classic nudist photos??

ken

[Nudony]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nudony, where did you get the classic nudist photos?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here and there; over a good number of years. No single source.

[nudenwv]

nudity begins with me when i have no clothes on. it ends when i have to cover some part of my body. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[NudeAl]

Nude is nothing on in my book. Though I'll make allowences for hats, jewelry and footware. Other than that it's a form of clothing and hence not nude. Just my opinion of course.

[FireProf]

Anyway you slice it, those people in the foreground of the photo are clothed (clothing optional) to a degree and the others behind them on the bench are nude! http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[nudetone]

I kinda feel the same way as Nude Al, except that if someone was wearing only something on their feet, I still would consider them to be naked.

[windowphobe]

I think it's pretty clear that the threshold can be variable.

The other day I was sitting out on the patio, and for some reason I kicked off my sandals. And at that moment, I felt a lot more, well, naked than I had been, just because I'd discarded the one item of clothing I actually had been wearing.

[John Spooner]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Never said you shouldn't wear shoes if you really, really have to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes it can be a matter of necessity, in this case the log was a little splintery and the spinefex grass quite sharp.
Regards. John S.

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nudony:
The C/O versus nude debate brought a question to my mind. Where do you consider nudity to begin? In other words, at what state of undress do you consider someone to be "mostly nude" as opposed to "mostly dressed"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the setting is "nude only," then I expect people to be undressed enough to be in general compliance. Men need to at least lose their pants or I start wondering if they're there just for the view. Beyond that I really don't care. I'm just happy to be able to enjoy my own freedom.

[OZJames]

I think the answer is in the eyes of the beholder. It's the same as "Is the glass half full or half empty ?"

In my past, as a young man living amongst VERY prudish family, if wearing only shorts or undies I was practically naked. Men with their shirts off are seen by textiles as NAKED from the waste up. Of course there is also the site effect. At a beach a man in speedos is seen by textiles as acceptably covered (just) but if he wore speedos to the local supermarket he would probably be arrested or at least warned off.

My sister was in a hotel when the fire alarm went off. In the foyer some people were "dressed" only in towels and she referred to them as practically naked. If they were seen on a beach they would have been very adequatly covered.

Perhaps we should have a POLL on this to test our nudist/textile scale rating. Show a few pictures then ask the person to vote on the scale of nakedness for each. The answers could be rated and we find out if we are really textiles trying to be nudists or we are in fact nudists not only in actions but also in our mind.

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <span class="ev_code_RED">JAMES</span> http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Nudony]

A poll may be a bit hard to do. But we can start with this. This is THE Diane Webber; sporting a T-shirt tied above her chest-maybe to protect her shoulders from sunburn.

Do you consider her mostly nude or mostly dressed?

[OZJames]

I would say titillatingly undressed.

I hope she put sunburn cream on her ******* http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <span class="ev_code_RED">JAMES</span> http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Pieguy]

It, for me, is if wearing nothing on the chest, arms, genitals, butt and legs. Jewellery, watches, hats, shoes and such don't count.

[Mountain Goat]

I chose to be very obscure around such questions. I think being naked/clothed is a dualism that is the root of the problem, and a dualism that is unnecessary to really have. To say someone is naked, you must have a clothed mind.

We are all naked with varying degrees of adornment and attire. It is just that some are in public denial about it and need some adornment to prevent the issue becoming obvious. Others adorn for their own reasonable purposes, like protection from the environment.

A nudist can wear clothes, it is just that they may prefer to minimise in awareness that clothes make no difference.

Me, I'm as clothed naked as I am naked clothed.
(hmmmm, I think I will use that as my signature)


Mountain Goat

[Nudony]

Mountain Goat's comment is touching on the point I was trying to make with my initial post. It was spurred by the everlasting "Nude v/s C/O" issue and how nudists often relate to clothed people. I was watching a French TV show on nudism (available on vivrenu.com) where a woman was at a nude resort for the first time; she was wearing a bathing suit. And although she was very polite and social to everyone around her, she was confronted by an older nudist and asked to "undress or leave." She was of course quite upset, and explained that she didn't understand that she would be approached so aggressively in spite of the fact that she obviously wasn't there as a voyeur, and was minding her business and enjoying her time with the nude couple she was accompanying.

I personally think that we should look at the person and his/her attitude BEFORE looking at whatever he/she is wearing or not wearing. When I look at Diane Webber above or the young lady on the previous page, I consider them to maybe not be totally nude in the physical sense; but I would say that their adornments are not preventing their nudity either (if that makes any sense.) It is obvious that in both cases they are quite comfortable with what they have on, and would more than likely be just as comfortable if they didn't have it on.

Furthermore: take three women. One is a first-timer and is anxiously clutching on to her towel. The other is a reluctant wife, with her sarong double-wrapped and double-knotted. The last is sunburned and wearing a simple little T-shirt to cover her shoulders. Let's say that the surface of skin covered in all three instances is the same. If we take that nudism is also a state of mind, couldn't you still say that one is nuder than the others? Maybe not in the physical sense, but isn't nudism more than just physical?

I guess my point is that we shouldn't get hung up on what the person sitting next to us is wearing, and how much or how little is covered. We should pay more attention to the attitude that person has or exudes towards his/her nudity and others'; and then our reaction to it.

My answer to the question: "where does nudity begin/end" would probably be: In my own mind. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Last night, I stood out on our carport, nude. It was after midnight, nobody was going to see me. I loved the feel of the warm wind washing over me. Whether someone saw me, or I saw someone else was totally irrevalent. When I go to our community pool I wear a speedo. There's not much to it, but it is, in a large measure, different. Not as good. Why? I confess I don't know. It's not physical, it's mental. I am not an exhibitionist. There is nothing sexual about it. A nude girl on the stage at at strip club is sexually one thing. A nude girl at a nude beach is something entirely different. Why?. I don't know. Do any of you?

[stephen russell]

Nudity begins when one is Nude, wearing simple towel, loincloth to me=nudity.
Clothed is adding ON more due to etc. cold.

[TANZ]

Nude is a state of dress.Nudism is a state of mind. http://clothesfreeforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Naturally Kiwi