Hundreds of Nudist in a Public Park

[Frank R]

Yesterday (Sep 20) over a hundred nudist went on a boat cruise on Lake Travis (near Austin, Texas) Legally speaking, the only part of the lake where you may be nude is an area called "Hipple Hollow". From where we boarded the boat it about a 45 minutes trip to Hipple Hollow. About 5 minutes after leaving the dock, almost everyone was nude. Well over 200 boats (not to mention jet skies) and God only knows how many people saw us on the way there or back. Even a sheriffs boat passed us as we were standing next to rail of the boat (a fence) and very few even seemed to notice us. The boat, two stories high, could be seen easily from shore and we passed dozens of homes, a few hotels, many with people at the shore side. Outside of waving, I saw no response from anyone. We stayed in the Hipple Hollow area all day and then started back. One boat did pull along side and stayed along side for several minutes and one the girls in the boat took off her top and danced for minute which got a good laugh and cheers from us.

A sheriffs boat passed us at least twice on the way there and at least three times on the way back and almost all of us were nude. (They may have passed us other times when I did not notice). The captain of the boat (Hill Country Nudist has sponsored this event for several years) said no one has ever, in all these years, complained to him. He also said he has received dozens of complaints when he has taken groups of college students so people can and do know whom to complain to.

OK Stu, if people are so offended by public nudity, why hasn't anyone ever complained, either to the boat captain or the police?

[NW Nude]

It is another example of how nudist are just a group of fun people. We don't cause trouble or get out of control. If the rest of society would get of their misconceptions, they would realize it. It seems as though this area in Texas has

Frank,

"OK Stu, if people are so offended by public nudity, why hasn't anyone ever complained, either to the boat captain or the police?"

How can I answer that? I don't know the place, the state, or even the country. I don't know the people, the laws, the social norms, the attitude of the police or courts or anything like that.

Now Jon-Marc who posts here DOES live in your country - Battle Creek Michigan I think. He and I have debated the public's attitude to public nudity a great deal. But look what HE said about the public's attitude to naturists generally yesterday on the thread about desensitizing the public:

"Another example: My next door neighbor runs a home day care for school kids after school until their parents get home from work, and in the summer. She and her husband aren't nudists, but what if they were and one of the kids found out and told Mom and dad? Even if they weren't nude around the kids, some parents would go into a panic and raise holy H-E-double-hockey-sticks over it and cause them a lot of grief."

Now if people don't even want their kids to have anything to do with fully-clothed naturists, then I can't see that same public being blas? about widescale public nudity.

I do know that in most parts of the UK public nudity away from naturist areas would be considered wholly unacceptable and people would complain - especially if there were kids about.

And just out of interest, how do you know for sure that no-one has: "ever complained, either to the boat captain or the police"? Have you asked the boat captain and all the police?

Stu

[Bob S.]

OK stu, refresher course on Hippie Hollow. It is a nude beach (one which I would never attend, even if I lived down there) that the local governmnet has decided to put an age limit on. No one under the age of 18 may go to this PUBLIC nude beach. I personally find this discriminatory, but the one court that it was brought to agreed with the govennment.

They argued that because perverts would find seeing naked children appealing, they decided to ban the children. In other words, from my perspective, they are pro-perverts, pro-public sex, and anti-family. I don't see myself going any place where children are not allowed. The adult aspect of the place would be a major turn-off.

And reread Frank's post. He said, "The captain of the boat...said no one has ever, in all these years, complained to him." He also mentioned that people know that he is in charge as "he has received dozens of complaints when he has taken groups of college students so people can and do know whom to complain to." In other words, people are supposedly complaining to him about rowdy behaviour, not lack of attire. And if the police were complained to, they apparently didn't talk with the captain about it as Frank seems to imply that the police have never said anything to the captain.

As for Jon-Marc's example, I am sure that a home-based day care has a much more intimate feel and there is probably a more one-on-one relationship with many of the parents. That being the case, I would suspect that in that kind of environment, the vast majority of the parents would have no problem with the situation. They would probably talk with the "teachers" about the situation, and after realizing that all of this happens on their time off away from the kids, there is no problem. In fact, I would suspect that a few of them may be curious about their nudist life, maybe even envious.

Bob S.

[Frank R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stu2630:
Frank,
And just out of interest, how do you know for sure that no-one has: "ever complained, either to the boat captain or the police"? Have you asked the boat captain and all the police?

Stu <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Stu,
In this country, complaints filed with the police are public records, at least in so far as what the complaint was, where it was and the time. (As a matter of fact, they are even published in the local newspaper) The only thing not included is who may have filed the complaint. The police reports do show several complaints about conduct at Hippy Hollow but none of them ever involved a HCN (Hill Country Nudist) boating trip. So people can and have complained about conduct involving nudist (note: not HCN members) and I am sure they will do in the future. As a matter of fact I did ask the captain this point and he told me the police have contacted many times involving complaints about what took place on his cruise ship. But none of these complaints were ever about when HCN had rented the ship for the day.
The point was made that many people do not visit Hippy Hollow and I don't either. The only time I have ever been and the only times I ever plan to be there is for a HCN boat cruise.

My examples weren't meant to be fact since I have no facts upon which to base them. I was merely expressing an opinion based more upon my experience that I mentioned about being taken in, etc.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
My examples weren't meant to be fact since I have no facts upon to base them. I was merely expressing an opinion based more upon my experience that I mentioned about being taken in, etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I understand the hypothetical examples Jon-Marc gave here and in another thread -Day Care providers and school teachers. When children are brought into the equation many people stop thinking critically and feel justified in jumping to conclusions and acting in ignorance - ala Representative Foley.

However, I've noticed that there are really a lot of school teachers who are nudists. Some very openly. Perhaps because of the strength of the Teacher's unions in this country they don't worry so much about dismissal for non-job related reasons.

I also know several nudists who run Day-Care centers. Of course they are not nudist day cares /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

-Mark

It's a bit unfair to present me with an instance about a place about which I know nothing. I can tell you of an entirely opposite reaction at a beach called Fraisthorpe not too far from where I live. That particular beach was, until the late 1980s, an authorised naturist/clothing optional beach. Then the authorities, coming under public pressure (even though it was well clear of other public beaches and quite a hike to get to), closed it and erected signs saying that people who were not properly clothed would be prosecuted.

A friend of a friend is a sergeant in the Humberside Police which is responsible for that section of beach. Apparently this year a number of local naturists tried to reclaim a part of this beach. The police were innundated with calls of complaint. It caused such outrage that the Police Authority got involved and demanded a report about it from the chief constable (a guy who is the head of an organisation employing about 6,000 people). They got the police helicopter onto the job and gave the naturists a warning over the public address system that they should either cover up or leave the beach, otherwise they would be arrested. OK I know I got this story third hand but things I have read elsewhere have indicated that the gist of it is true. And the words "innundated with calls of complaint" are those of the sergeant, not mine.

I'm not claiming that the outcome would have been the same if the incident had happened in another part of the UK. Everywhere is different.

I don't expect people here who live in the US to draw conclusions about public attitudes to nudity in their country based upon a single episode here in Yorkshire. So why am I expected to account for a place that I've never heard of in Texas?

Stu

[Rik]

The official reasons for closing Fraisthorpe Beach (in the mid-90s) were:

1)Naturists are not using the beach enough

2)It is too remote for us [the local council]to manage it properly.

So officially it was not closed because of complaints about naturists. However it may have been closed because of complaints about sexual activity as Fraisthorpe beach is mentioned on a number of 'dogging' sites such as http://www.melanies-uk-swingers.com/goingout/dogging/counties/humberside-swingers.htm and http://www.affairsltd.com/humbersideswingersswinging.htm . (And before you ask, I had no idea what 'dogging' was until I read about the police raids on this beach.)

Naturists have tried to reclaim the beach - for habitual usage is the only hope of ever securing official status - but I guess it's an uphill struggle against those who have come to believe that nudity on a beach equates with sexual activity.

By the council's own admission this beach is "too remote to manage" which suggests that naturist beaches should be 'less remote' to enable more effective management (and policing) and help to keep away the undesirable elements.

Rik

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank R:
We stayed in the Hipple Hollow area all day and then started back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Frank, I assume a family naturist club like HCN would have children, who are banned from the nude beach at Hippy Hollow. Were there any children in the cruise party? If so, did this cause any problems at the beach? Thanks.

[Frank R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank R:
We stayed in the Hipple Hollow area all day and then started back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Frank, I assume a family naturist club like HCN would have children, who are banned from the nude beach at Hippy Hollow. Were there any children in the cruise party? If so, did this cause any problems at the beach? Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Due to the narrow minded bigots we have as judges (lol), children are not allowed either in the park or on this cruise. Since the US Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal, we do not feel there is anything to be gained by fighting a battle already lost. Many of us do have children but not at this once a year event.