Any Real Naturist Christians Out There??? [Archive]

GO AWAY

08-25-2003, 11:08 AM

Hey Guys,

I have noticed, as I have talked to a lot of naturist people, that there is a lack of real Christian Naturist out there. Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself...

I want to know if there are any real Christian Naturist out there who carry real Christian Values...as in:

1) Allowing their walk to match there talk

2) Not blatantly condemning others every chance they get simply beacuse they don't agree with them, but accepting others and drawing them to them by love, patience, and a guiding light...

3)Hold true Christian Values and genuinely love the Lord and his teachings, using them to break down the strong holds against man and nature knowing that we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against pricipalities and the rulers of darkness...

I really hope that there are some Naturist Christians out there that I can chat with...also I cover this post with the Might Blood of Jesus and I render the Devil powerless, harmless, and ineffective in allowing anything to come against me in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ...AMEN...

"It's one thing to call yourself a Christian - it's another when those who know you agree!"

J

GO AWAY

08-25-2003, 11:08 AM

purity

08-25-2003, 11:53 AM

Dear Miami Newdist I am a recent adherent of social nudity and have been led to it by God to achieve what has been my dream for some years - purity. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God" (Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 5 verse 8) (I spell it out long hand to allow others to understand the reference - not because I think you don't!). There is nothing I desire more than to serve God and to glorify the Name of Jesus Christ. I don't think there can be anything more important than this. As I am sure you know the Bible says that the day will come when EVERY KNEE ON EARTH, ON HEAVEN AND IN HELL WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD! (Epistle to the Philippians, Chap 2 verse 10 and 11).
However, I can see that here (in the area of social nudity) God's guidance is important because the world of social nudity really does have its pitfalls (to put it mildly). In the last 3 months since coming to this lifestyle, I have visited about 6 or 7 nudists places and resorts in 3 countries - UK, Spain and Russia and though I have seen some good examples of social nudity, I have witnessed some pretty awful scenes that show that the so-called nudist community is a cloak for some that allows them to engage in reprehensible behaviour.
Having said that, I have come to understand that body shame is a dreadful scourge. I have been badly affected by it and am now trying to put it right. The web site www.reject-shame.com (http://www.reject-shame.com) owned by Nate Dekan has really bowled me over. Few things have got my attention like his exposition there does and it was this that led me to understand that I would never be free until I learn to accept all of the human body as God intended it. I long for the day when I will not even be aware that I am not wearing clothes. I can tell that this process has started. It was great to see your post when I logged on a short while ago. Look forward to exchanging thoughts whether through this medium or pms and hopefully blessing others in the process. God bless you!

nudecollar

08-25-2003, 01:24 PM

Nudity, for the most part, is religion neutral. It is not even, for the most part, unchaste. In many cases, it is an individual's judgement on the morality of the situation that imposes religion where perhaps it the tenets of a particular faith do not apply. Fornication, adultery, and perhaps other sexual situations,can be, are and should be morally judged by particular religions, especially many of the Judeo-Christian sects. Since these acts are obviously done in the nude, there are those who impose the sin on nudity itself. I have never seen at a clothing optional beach anything that I would call immoral or unchaste. This would include the tenets of most of the main line religions that I know of: Anglicanism, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodoxy, Judaism (and probably others not mentioned here.)

Jaybird77

08-25-2003, 03:26 PM

Miami,

I try very hard to live by those standards, it can be difficult at times to do those but I try. I'm glad to see a like-minded Christian on this forum. Feel free to PM me any time, I would enjoy talking to you more about this.

Jaybird77

sojourner

08-25-2003, 10:40 PM

Interesting post!

I would consider myself a Christian first and then a naturist. I have seen posts from a lot of people on this site who are definitely trying to live by Christ's teachings, some a bit more fanatical than others but still living their beliefs. Like any community, you have those who will expound and "preach" their beliefs, whatever they are, while others try to show by their example what their beliefs are.
Christ showed compassion to the "sinner" while challenging the authroities of the time. It is that model that I try, not always successfully though, to follow.

Many countries have turned from Christianity to following eastern, new age, or no established religion at all. Here in the states, we are heading in that direction as well. There are true Christians here and Christians in name. Sometimes its hard to differentiate between the two as some use Christianity to push other agendas.

If you want to send PMs about your thoughts and faith, feel free to count me in. I think that your criteria is most compatible to my beliefs.

Blessings.

Soj

/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TXK NUDE

08-26-2003, 05:01 AM

I am a Christian...
1. I have been redeemed from my sins by the blood of Christ shed on the cross.
2. I have repented from my life of sin, and strive with all that is in me to live a life pleasing to my Heavenly Father.
3. I desire to do the will of the Father, and seek His kingdom here on earth as in heaven. I am dedicated to His service both now and forever.

I am a nudist...
1. I hate wearing clothes and have for most of my life.
2. I studied the Word of God and discovered that non-sexual nudidty is NOT a sin (see #2 above).
3. I believe that nudism as a lifestyle has positive physical and emotional effects for both men and women. And I feel that it is therapeutic for those who have been abused and are trapped by their past.

TXK NUDE

Croydon

08-26-2003, 06:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Hey Guys,

I have noticed, as I have talked to a lot of naturist people, that there is a lack of real Christian Naturist out there. Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself...

I want to know if there are any real Christian Naturist out there who carry real Christian Values...as in:

1) Allowing their walk to match there talk

2) Not blatantly condemning others every chance they get simply beacuse they don't agree with them, but accepting others and drawing them to them by love, patience, and a guiding light...

3)Hold true Christian Values and genuinely love the Lord and his teachings, using them to break down the strong holds against man and nature knowing that we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against pricipalities and the rulers of darkness...

I really hope that there are some Naturist Christians out there that I can chat with...also I cover this post with the Might Blood of Jesus and I render the Devil powerless, harmless, and ineffective in allowing anything to come against me in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ...AMEN...

"It's one thing to call yourself a Christian - it's another when those who know you agree!"

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How does one define what a real christian is? So I guess you are defining "real" christians by YOUR standards. Rason # 1 according to you is Allowing their walk to match there talk...so I guess someone who makes a mistake in judgement or commit some sin isn't a "real" christian? So I guess you are a saint Miami.

There is no such thing as a real christian. We all have different definitions of christianity. Many can simply say that you are not real christian because you are a nudist. Because you expose your body for others to see (other than your significant other) you are commiting a sin and therefore you are NOT a "real" christian.

God I love you "christians" always judge others who do not match your standards. Sheesh, and my mother wonders why I refuse to step foot in a church. I gave up religion long time ago and has been one of the best things I have done. Makes so sense to socialize with people who do nothing but judge and believe they are the best "child of god (if he really exists) and neglect to remember that they, like everyone else, isn't perfect and live a life of sin.

GO AWAY

08-26-2003, 09:58 PM

Well, that post was dully noted...

I am sorry that you feel that way, but I guess if your mind is already made up, then there is nothing I can do about it...I have had friends who thought just like you, but after a while they saw what I am Christianity is all about...I just hope that you could do the same...

WWJD...Jesus would pick and choose his battles...and this is a battle I choose to ignore...

I am just gonna shake the dust off my feet and move on, like the disciples of the Bible...

Move on to people who are willing to talk about it and not attack...

oh well...

I'LL BE MOVING ON...

J

GO AWAY

08-26-2003, 09:59 PM

hey TXK NUDE that is awesome dude...

feel free to contact me...so we can discuss further thoughts...

J

Prometheus

08-27-2003, 02:46 AM

Would someone mind satisfying the curiosity of the resident atheist (me) and explain why it matters what religion your friends are? Are you looking for camaraderie? Someone with whom to compare notes on how nudism fits into Christianity? I could probably come up with a few other reasons, but I would rather not put words in anyone's mouth. So, tell me why this is so important.

GO AWAY

08-27-2003, 09:19 AM

If you are not a Christian, nor want to be educated on it, then why would you care?

just my 10 cents, my two cents were free...

Buzzer

08-27-2003, 10:30 AM

GO AWAY

08-27-2003, 12:53 PM

Don't be Discouraged Buzzer...

"We fall down, but we get up...A Saint is just a sinner who fell down..then got up" Donnie

It's true though...God's grace and mercy is sufficient...He knows that we are flesh and that out flash is weak. But he loves us soo dearly that he forgives us as long as we ask for forgiveness and believe that we are genuinely forgiven...As long as we are trying, no matter how many times we fall, he sees that. He knows the intentions of your heart.

DOn't give up just keep on trying...if you fall 100000000 times, just get up and try again, he always makes a way out of no way, you just have to seek his guidance and ask him for his devine help...

Our God is a Fogiving and Gracious God...

J

08-27-2003, 02:15 PM

I personally find being a true naturist similar to being a true Christian...I fail at both....but I do keep trying... /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Outdoorbare

Prometheus

08-27-2003, 02:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
If you are not a Christian, nor want to be educated on it, then why would you care?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Do I need a reason for being curious? If you don't want to answer my question, then don't. Maybe someone else will.

08-27-2003, 02:52 PM

Prometheus...just like it is natural to be curious ...it is also natural to want to be around others who think like we do ...and there is safety in numbers...Outdoorbare /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-27-2003, 02:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Well, that post was dully noted...

I am sorry that you feel that way, but I guess if your mind is already made up, then there is nothing I can do about it...I have had friends who thought just like you, but after a while they saw what I am Christianity is all about...I just hope that you could do the same... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>From what I have seen in life, the ones that really think about beliefs and why they feel as they do usually move away from christianity. It is totally possible and actually more likely to be a moral person and not be religious.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
WWJD...Jesus would pick and choose his battles...and this is a battle I choose to ignore...

I am just gonna shake the dust off my feet and move on, like the disciples of the Bible...

Move on to people who are willing to talk about it and not attack...

oh well...

I'LL BE MOVING ON...

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why is it that when you challenge a christian's beliefs it is seen as an attack? Does that allow you to get out of thinking deeply and coming up with an honest answer? What would Jesus do if he had some intellectual points tossed at him? Would he have run away from them and view them as attacks? (saying there was a Jesus)

Croydon made some good points. So did nudecollar and Prometheus. Nobody out of the christians seems able to answer them.

What does it matter what religion a nudist is?

florida-david

08-27-2003, 05:22 PM

i have discovered that with many 'religious' people, it is the similarities inherent in the religion that aid in comraderie. i understand this behaviour, although sometimes you can feel left out if you are not part of the 'religious crowd'. this has happened to me (a non-'religious' person) many times. it happens in social situations as well as in business situations where the very religious tend to seek business associates that are of the same religion.

it is not strange that miami-newdist seeks other christians to share life views with, especially those beliefs pertaining to nudity. i don't think miami-newdist is trying to avoid non-christians, i think he is searching for christians who act as he feels christians should act and he has stated what he dislikes about the pseudo-christians he has met. i can assure you that miami-newdist does not judge people based on their religion as he has not booted me off his nudist friends list (yet!!).

but can someone please answer prometheus' question? the ramblings presented here are only my feelings on the situation and come from a non-religious member....

Bob S.

08-27-2003, 07:38 PM

Prometheus, yes, I do believe that Miami is looking for camaraderie. I am a member of a yahoo group Jewish Nudists. One thing in that group that goes on is getting to know others who share your religion and way of thinking about the naked body.

I am sure you could find many sub-labels of nudists. The retired, singles, families, young and old, couples, etc. I'm sure that each member of those groups like to find others who are in the same boat as they are.

Bob S.

GO AWAY

08-27-2003, 07:53 PM

Thank you Florida_David and BOB S.

Like i said...I don't care for people who just attack me for the POST and the COMADARIE that i am looking for...

you two are not CHristians...and whatever...i am not God he is the one that judges and I could care less what you are...

FLorida_David said it perfectly...and of course I am not going to boot you David, you are an awesome cat...

Anyway...I am not going to fight this battle because like I said in the other post, (what denom are you)...you people are just doing to others what you condemned them for doing to you...

It's really not worth my words and NOW I SEE WHY SOOO MANY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THESE BOARDS...

OH WELL...i AM FINDING THE PEOPLE THAT SHARE MY VIEWS AND THAT IS WHAT I SET OUT TO DO...ALL THIS OTHER CRAP YOU GUYS ARE DOING IS NOTHING BUT A DISTRACTION...

"The mean things you say don't make me feel bad...how can i lose a friend that i NEVER had...I've got JESUS and that's enough"

THAT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH...

SHHH...ENUFF HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID..

Jochanaan

08-27-2003, 10:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
If you are not a Christian, nor want to be educated on it, then why would you care?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Do I need a reason for being curious? If you don't want to answer my question, then don't. Maybe someone else will. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Prometheus, your question deserves an answer. Many Christians have nothing against discussing deep issues with non-Christians or counting them among our friends. But our deepest friendships are reserved for those who are also developing a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe. It's just easier to talk to such a person; there are so many things that don't have to be explained. And for sincere Bible-believing seekers, the word of someone who also believes carries a lot more weight than the word of someone who may or may not believe in God or the Bible. When we're trying to learn how, for example, naturism can be practiced by Christians, it's more likely we'll get good answers from a Christian than from a non-Christian.

I wouldn't go to a CEO to learn piano. Nor would I ask a Buddhist to tell me about Christianity.

GO AWAY

08-27-2003, 10:23 PM

I applaud that response...

Very Well Put...

Jochanaan

08-27-2003, 10:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
From what I have seen in life, the ones that really think about beliefs and why they feel as they do usually move away from christianity. It is totally possible and actually more likely to be a moral person and not be religious.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi, Cyndiann! I always enjoy reading your posts.

I am one who has thought deeply about my faith. After thinking about it, investigating other belief systems, and yes, praying, I am still a Christian and am more devoted than ever to imitating Christ's example in my daily life. Perhaps you have not yet met anyone who, like me, has thought about it and still believes. There are many of us.

As for being "religious," I, like many Christians, distinguish between religion and relationship. Unlike many other belief systems, Christianity is not just a set of rules and principles. We believe that we actually contact the Creator of the Universe when we pray, and we see evidence of His work in our lives, our friends' lives, and the world at large.

Have a great evening, or night, or morning!

GO AWAY

08-27-2003, 10:58 PM

I have definitely thought about my religion and there was a period of time that i went in opposite directions to explore the likeness of other religions and tested them out...

Christianity is what i returned to and the only firm religion I could grasp and to this day am still learning and grasping its truly amazing powers...

I just choose not to debate about it...that is why there are people like you to fill in that void...

SOmeday I will debate it with others...

BUT TODAY...JUST AIN'T THE DAY..

LOL

Prometheus

08-28-2003, 01:00 AM

Thanks for the responses. Looks like I guessed right for the most part.

Miami, you are making it sound like some people are trying to pick a fight with you. I hope you don't think I'm one of them. If you do, you're taking yourself way too seriously. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Prometheus

08-28-2003, 01:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by outdoorbare:
...and there is safety in numbers... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I find this answer interesting. Last I checked, over 75% of people in the USA are Christian. Don't Christians have safety in numbers by default? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Trailscout

08-28-2003, 04:22 AM

Prometheus,

Safety in numbers is not the best way to describe the benefits of Christian fellowship or of nudist camaraderie for that matter.

At a nudist resort, nudists watch one another's kids, we have defenders in court, we strive to incorporate the nudist ethic consistently in every facet of our lives, we seek advice from one another on how to counteract textile influence from the media and our kids' schoolmates.

Christians likewise benefit, not from sheer numbers, but from the mutual support of living in a community, be it a congregation or simple home fellowship group.

TXK NUDE

08-28-2003, 05:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
What would Jesus do if he had some intellectual points tossed at him? Would he have run away from them and view them as attacks? (saying there was a Jesus)

I don't want to be drawn into a debate...not because I'm afraid, I just don't have the time right now. But I did want to respond quickly to this point. Jesus DID respond to the doubters and religious zealots who bombarded him with legal, moral and ethical questions, who tried to set them up with religious mumbo-jumbo. Sometimes his response was to ignore their questions because he saw what was in their hearts...not a desire for the truth, but for evil and mischief. The greatest example of this was in the story of the adulterous woman brought before him by the Pharisees. She was caught in the act, and under the Law of Moses condemned to die. They questioned Jesus, not out of a pure motive, but to see if he would comply with the Law. Jesus never answered them. Instead, he bent over and wrote something in the sand at his feet. After a while he calmly replied, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone." When he stood up ALL the accusers of the woman were gone! The woman remained. When asked where her condemners were, she responded, 'Lord, I have none." Jesus showed her mercy and said, "Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more." Sometimes people on this board try to draw Christians into debates and arguements with no intention of hearing or understanding...they only want to do mischief. I applaud those Christians who choose not to get involved, rather than show their carnal nature and thus forever ruin their witness. It's hard, I know. I have unfortunately fallen into some of those traps myself. But I try to do better. :-)

Also, just a quick side note...the debate of Jesus' existance is moot. Historical and archaeological evidence reveal that Jesus was real and did walk on this earth over 2000 years ago. Even many Orthodox Jews would not dispute this. What is truly at the heart of this debate is whether Jesus is truly the Son of God. That, dear friends, is a debate that you can only answer for yourself after much serious soul searching. Unfortunately, statistics show that the majority of people will reject the truth, and never see Jesus for what he truly is. "For broad is the way, and wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and many there are who find it. But narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leads to life, but few there are that find it."

Croydon made some good points. So did nudecollar and Prometheus. Nobody out of the christians seems able to answer them.

Because the internet is so impersonal, I would recommend those who are truly seeking truth to find a local minister, church, and congregation to answer their questions. Then you can see first hand and hear the truth directly so that it can be applied straight to your heart. Don't judge Christians you meet on the web because the love that we are commanded to show doesn't always come through real clear when filtered through microchips and fiber optic cable. :-)

What does it matter what religion a nudist is? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It doesn't matter. As someone else already pointed out, Nudism and religion are not mutually exclusive. Anyone can be a nudist, and anyone can be a Christian, Buddhist, Pagan, etc. But among Christians, we are commanded to seek out fellowship with like minded believers. So we ask. I personally have nudists friends who are pagans, wiccans, and just good ol' boys. As long as the nudity is not sexual, we get along great. But I don't hide my faith from them, and they know what I believe.

It is my sincere hope that the words I have shared today touch someone's heart. And I hope that those who are truly seeking answers (ie. the truth) will find it soon.

TXK NUDE

BrianM

08-28-2003, 06:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:

I have noticed, as I have talked to a lot of naturist people, that there is a lack of real Christian Naturist out there. Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Miami,
I am sure that you have checked out various Christian Nudist websites in the links and on the web....if not, then be sure to check them out. Also, please don't judge non-christians, nor feel sorry for them (because you are judging when you do, right). Also, since much of the scripture about nudity, etc is in the old testement, then you can still compare notes with Jews, it seems.
While I cannot classify myself as a "Christian", since I have had the gift of not being brainwashed too much in my early years, nor was I pressured into religion (not an attack, just call it what you want) early through life, so I may be more of a free thinker. However, since we live in a society that has a significant % of people that do believe in such things, I have spent a lot of time trying to do research on religion, Bible facts, Myths and science, and try to put it all in perspective, since many of our loved ones are wonderful, devout, relgious people, and we need to understand them and live with them. So do not be afraid to talk about these issues with non-christians, actually, Christ would have rather spent time with a non-Christian, with the hope of teaching his faith, rather than wasting your time talking to existing beleivers.
Lastly, feel good about your religion, if you have it, since Christianity has been around probably longer than you may think. The concepts and practice of "Christian" principles were accepted and were mainstream in Rome many years before the "Birth" of Christ. The Romans also worshiped the same guy (Mithra), the name was just different, and there were some subtle differences in practices, that allowed Christianity to take over in Rome after many years and much needless bloodshed. Many of these Hellenistic (god saves individuals, not groups of people all at once) beliefs were causing discontent within the Jewish world, and was heavily present in Rome at the time. Since many of the "Jewish-Christians" didn't survive this era, the Roman pagans (later Roman Catholics) actually developed most of the Christian faith, with HEAVY mainstream pagan beleifs, customs and doctrines. This is relevant to you question, because it has much to do with how the faith was created, and the influences that may shape your bretheren's beliefs. See this if interested: http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/godquiz.htm
and / or
http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm
and / or
http://www.bibleorigins.net/

08-28-2003, 07:30 AM

"It is my sincere hope that the words I have shared today touch someone's heart. And I hope that those who are truly seeking answers (ie. the truth) will find it soon.

TXK NUDE"

Problem with that is you are assuming, quite snobbishly, that if they haven't "found" religion to be exactly as you believe that they haven't found it at all.

Not letting people find their own spiritual paths in their own way, to not acknowledge other paths as valid is being elitist.

As I can step back and watch all the different religions that claim to be the only right one I just have to laugh. They can't possibly all be right. Maybe none of them are. Who are you to judge?

Your only proof is a book written by people who claim they were inspired by that particular god. If I wrote a book and told those who read it this was the only right path would that make my book any more real and genuine than yours? Especially since that book you use for digging up proofs of beliefs has been shown to constantly contradict itself. Especially since some parts of it are held up as to be taken totally literal while other parts are explained away with no real explanation as to why.

I know this post will go right over a few heads. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

08-28-2003, 08:03 AM

I look to eternal life after death...what do you envision?...Outdoorbare

BrianM

08-28-2003, 08:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by outdoorbare:
I look to eternal life after death...what do you envision?...Outdoorbare <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I personally do not know what is in the "afterlife", but my best reasoning is that our heart stops beating, our brains become deficient of blood and oxygen, we black out /white out and die a quick death and that is it. Our "soul" and "self" is a biochemical reflex, but nontheless very complicated process, which is mostly genetic, and very much develops over time, given stimulus. Just as repetitive motions attemting to walk teachs us to walk, repetitive teaching about God and afterlife makes many beleive in afterlife.
But, this is all pretty bizarre that these phenomenon occur in the fisrt place, and mere mortals have yet to fully understand it, and maybe never will, which may lead many to a very wrong conclusion. The fact is since we don't know whats going on, then we either believe that 1) It must be the God that everyone's been preaching about, or 2) It could be any of an infinite number of possibilities that exist. Many use the the logic that if they can't explain it, then it must be God-Christ, when that is certainly not a valid conclusion.

08-28-2003, 08:41 AM

I'm sorry you only have death to look forward to /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Outdoorbare

BrianM

08-28-2003, 08:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by outdoorbare:
I'm sorry you only have death to look forward to /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Outdoorbare <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't be sorry....I would recommend, however that you hedge your bet, and try to make the best of what you have here, for you may be wrong also. I almost got sick when my 17 year old niece, who recently has been attending a very contolling Baptist Church, told the the family at the table that "If I died today, it would be just awesome, since I would be with God". This type of mind control is very dangerous, I believe.

GO AWAY

08-28-2003, 12:44 PM

"IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW GREAT YOU ARE AND WHAT VALUE YOU HAVE IN OTHERS EYES...JUST GO ASK YOUR ENEMIES AND PEOPLE THAT RALLY AGAINST YOU"

IN OTHER WORDS IF THEY CONSTANTLY REFUTE YOU MUST HAVE HAD AN IMPACT ON THEIR LIVES...NO ONE TALKS ABOUT OR PAYS ATTENTION TO PEOPLE WHO THEY DON'T NOTICE..

THANK YOU ALL FOR ALLOWING MY POST TO LIVE ON...

VIVA MY POST...

HEE HEE...I FEEL REALLY SPECIAL...

REALLY I DO!!!

Jochanaan

08-28-2003, 02:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by outdoorbare:
...and there is safety in numbers... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I find this answer interesting. Last I checked, over 75% of people in the USA are Christian. Don't Christians have safety in numbers by default? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where did you get your data?

Assuming the statistic is accurate, how does it define "Christian"? Most surveys I've heard of define it as being a member of a Christian church. But that definition does not distinguish between those who have never gone to church for years but have not chosen to withdraw their membership, and those dedicated men and women who have given their life to serving the church. So probably no survey can ever determine the most important characteristic of a Christian: the heart's desire to follow Jesus, shown by a person's actions and words.

08-28-2003, 03:25 PM

BrianM..I am living my life to the fullest..And if I am wrong I have no bets to loose...but...if I am right....eternal life /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

shirleyujest

08-28-2003, 05:42 PM

TXK - I loved your reference to Matthew 7:13-14. It is so true.

TXK NUDE

08-28-2003, 06:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Your only proof is a book written by people who claim they were inspired by that particular god. If I wrote a book and told those who read it this was the only right path would that make my book any more real and genuine than yours? Especially since that book you use for digging up proofs of beliefs has been shown to constantly contradict itself.

I know this post will go right over a few heads. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, I don't want to debate, but I've always been curious about something. I've been told by a lot of people that the Bible is "full of inconsistencies, errors, and contradictions." When I ask them to show me one...they can't. If I ask them if they've ever actually READ the Bible completely, they usually respond in the negative, or say it had been a long time ago.

Cyndiann, I don't expect you to be able to produce proof of your disbelief any better than I can produce proof of my belief. That's why it's called 'faith'. You either have it...or you don't.

Someone once said that something must be true if I believe it. Unfortunately this is not true. If I believe a bowling ball will help me overcome gravity does not make it true. Should I decide to act on that belief, I would plummet to my death, spouting my faith in the bowling ball to help me fly! Truth is absolute...whether I believe it or not. The truth that I speak of is not bendable to fit my needs, nor is it debatable or comparible to other beliefs. God is God, and Jesus is his Son, sent to redeem me from my desparity. I either accept it and be saved, or I reject that truth and ultimately perish. I still hope you find this truth...not only find it but accept it. I'm not attacking anyone. There can be no greater love shown then that of Jesus on the cross for every sin of man/woman. And I can express that love by sharing that truth of Jesus with everyone. It may seem harsh at times, and it may seem cold, but compared to the alternative, an eternity of damnation...

I hate repeating myself, whether it's about religion, erections, or any other topic, so this is the only thing I will say further on this thread as a debate. Should anyone choose to 'debate' me further, I will not respond. If you are genuinely interested in learning about God and the Saviour, feel free to PM me.

By Christ Alone,

TXK NUDE

GO AWAY

08-28-2003, 08:24 PM

WHOA...GETTING ALL THIS ATTENTION ON THIS POST IS REALLY FLATTERING...

ALL MY OTHER POST STARTS LASTED LIKE ONLY ONE PAGE...WE ARE ALREADY UP TO TWO...

WHOA...MOVING ON UP

sojourner

08-28-2003, 08:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
Would someone mind satisfying the curiosity of the resident atheist (me) and explain why it matters what religion your friends are? Are you looking for camaraderie? Someone with whom to compare notes on how nudism fits into Christianity? I could probably come up with a few other reasons, but I would rather not put words in anyone's mouth. So, tell me why this is so important. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Prometheus,

Sorry it took a while to get to this as I am not on teh forum every day, but after reading some other posts thought I'd try to answer this question.
Let me see if I can give a partial answer to your question.

There are probably over 200 different denominations of Christians, so when someone asks how another believes he or she may be trying to figure out how similar in belief others are with them. As far as Christians go you have many different types, Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, etc; you have fundamentalists, evangelicals, charismatics, mainstream protestants, liberal protestants, conservative protestants, and the list goes on. Religion is a man based system trying to formalize a spiritual activity and as man based pride, arrogance and ego are, unfortunately, interjected. And as pointed out by many, and often correctly, man?s interpretations aren?t always accurate. And as also pointed out we are now looking at scriptures that are not the original manuscripts but translations and unfortunately have had cultural influences play some part in their expressions. So not only do you have different denominations but you also have different translations of the Bible.
The religion, the church, the particular translation of the Bible, however, is not the issue. My belief is the issue for a Christian that separates him or herself from others is in their relationship with Christ. It is a personal experience that happens through the Holy Spirit. It is also the Holy Spirit who teaches and instructs; man however, may or may not receive or apply the instruction properly. Similar example is tests in school. Why do some students get 100s and others get 50s? It?s in their ability and desire to study, be prepared, and know how to apply the material.
There are a lot of people who say they are Christian because that is the label they think they should be. There are some who use Christianity to foster their agenda but in reality are no more a Christian than a block of wood. There are many Christian who believe that their way is the only way and are dogmatic about their beliefs to the point where non Christians and other Christians have a hard time putting up with them. There are others who live the values they believe and try to show Christlike behaviour. They are not always successful, which is when others try to show how wrong they are.
There have been a lot of people raised in church homes and traditions who have seen more hypocrites in church that elsewhere. I agree with them ? there are a lot of hypocrites in church. There are also many sincere people who exemplify love and don?t judge, but are often overlooked.
Also as you look on this and other places, you?ll find Christians disagreeing with themselves ? the King James Bible is accurate, No you have to use the New International Version; some sat speaking in tongues is of the devil while others say you?re not saved if you don?t speak in tongues. Again, people are doing the interpreting. It is the same as asking 10 economists to tell how to fix our economy. You?ll get 10 different answers because you have people involved who have had different training and experiences. Each person has such a small piece of any puzzle and even experts in many fields have been proven wrong over time.
So maybe, in answering your question, why do people ask or care about ?religion?. For me it?s to find others who believe the same as I do so we can have conversations to lift each other up and be encouraging when things get us down. Having a like spiritual bond is most effective in dealing with the day to day grind than trying to work out problems with someone completely different than us, even though they have the same label.

In another post, you mentioned that 75% of the US is Christian. At a recent service I heard numbers that may be similar to what you see. It was a 10-80-10 number. 10% were peopel who "lived the Christian walk". Take that for what they say, I din't do the survey. 80% said they were Christian and by that meant that they might go to church on Christmas and Easter but don't really know the rest of teh story. Everyone else falls into the other 10%. They are not my stats just ones I recently heard. I would have thought the last 10% would be higher and the 80% lower.

Also, there are others who criticize teh Bible for conrtadicting itself. It takes a study of the original manuscripts knowing the culture of the time to fully understand how things were written. Westerners think linerallyl eaterners thnk more circularly - so communication isn't the easiest. When words get translated they can and do lose their meaning. Afterall, we as Americans can't undersatnad each other due to our local idioms, slang and ways that words change. It is amazing we understand each other at all considering some words, like round for example have numerous definitions (round has over 50 distinct meanings).
Don?t know if this answers your question. But the bottom line, like Outdoorbare said, is that we sometimes fail. Those labled Christians fail; those labelled non Christians fail. I?ll go to ODB for encouragement because I know he?s walked my walk before. To me knowing that is helpful.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-28-2003, 09:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
"IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW GREAT YOU ARE AND WHAT VALUE YOU HAVE IN OTHERS EYES...JUST GO ASK YOUR ENEMIES AND PEOPLE THAT RALLY AGAINST YOU"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is it really important to you to know how great you may be? Is that a real goal in life? Does the value others out on you really define your life and goals?

It doesn't for me at all. As long as I know who and what I am, I am very content with that.

Personally I have a confidence in myself, that I do the best I can in life and that I don't feel the need to please anyone else. I am very content and don't feel as if I am missing something in life. I don't feel like I need a religion or words that tell me how to be.

I do know I feel a whole lot better than when I was younger and was raised in a religion that told me to be afraid to think out of the box. Once I finally did it with regularity I discovered that happiness isn't reliant on anything but self confidence and believing in yourself.

GO AWAY

08-28-2003, 10:58 PM

TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT...I DON'T WANT TO LET YOU GO TIL I SEE THE LIGHT...

TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT...

COME TO MY WINDOW I'LL BE HOME SOON...I'M COMING HOME...COMING HOME TO YOU...

OH GIVE ME A HOME, WHERE THE BUFFALO ROAM...AND THE DEER AND THE ANTELOPE PLAY...

AND THIS HOUSE JUST AIN'T A HOME...EVERYTIME THAT SHE GOES AWAY...

Raised_by_She-Wolf

09-27-2003, 11:20 PM

[b]
HER NAME IS RIO, AND SHE DANCES ON THE SAND,

JUST LIKE THAT RIVER TWISTING THROUGH THE DUSTY LAND...

AND I CRY, OH MY GOD, DO I CRY!

I CRY ALL THE TIME IN THIS INSTITUTION!!!

(I don't know why we're singing 80's pop tunes and folk songs, but it's fun!)

I WISH I WAS IN DIXIE, HOORAY, HOORAY!

IN DIXIELAND, I'LL TAKE MY STAND TO LIVE AND DIE IN DIXIE!!

Naturist Mark

09-28-2003, 12:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by BrianM:
I almost got sick when my 17 year old niece, who recently has been attending a very contolling Baptist Church, told the the family at the table that "If I died today, it would be just awesome, since I would be with God". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd tell her that she is with God right here and now.

-Mark

Naturist Mark

09-28-2003, 12:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
Again, I don't want to debate, but I've always been curious about something. I've been told by a lot of people that the Bible is "full of inconsistencies, errors, and contradictions." When I ask them to show me one...they can't. If I ask them if they've ever actually READ the Bible completely, they usually respond in the negative, or say it had been a long time ago.
TXK NUDE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've been known to play the 'Biblical Inconsistancy' card. Usually in an attempt to argue against extreme orthodoxy or the misuse of the Bible to bolster prejudice.

I do consider myself a Christian, but not a dogmatic one. I have read the Bible completely, and studied it academically, and also on my own and in family situations (Dad was a minister, an uncle was a prominent blblical scholar and theologian). I am not an expert, I know my limitations - I've literally sat at the feet of men who translated Qumran documents and wrote university and seminary textbooks, my own scholarship is pitiful in comparison.

Yes, there are abundant inconsistancies in the Bible. Some people do mighty feats of logical gymnastics to 'harmonize' or dismiss them - particularly those who chose to cling to the doctrine of Biblical innerancy (which is an errant concept). Some use them to dismiss the Bible altogether. Others study them to see what they can tell us. Examining the differences in various accounts of the same events is one of the basic means of learning more about how and who wrote those passages of the Bible.

A good overview of the subject is available from links at the Apologetic Index. Some represent Atheist viewpoints, others attempt to debunk and harmonize, a few take a more scholarly approach. Biblical Inconsistancies (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b08.html)

-Mark

sawdust

10-01-2003, 12:15 AM

I have a hard time dealing with this two part question. Biblically, the answers are too obvious. The scriptures have one very basic truth to ask us, "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?" That is it! Your answer to the question has to be, Yes or No. The question is not if you know "about" Jesus but have you accepted Him for who He said He is? Nothing more. Understand this, "Even the demons know of Him, and they tremble in fright with that knowing." It has nothing to do with the church you attend, how you worship, how long you have been worshiping and/or what great deeds you might have done. Yes or No! I did not make up this test on who is and who is not a Christian, the scriptures did; God's word did. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now some folks think that the Bible is a cafateria where you can pick and choose what it is you like and what you will cast off. That is totally contrary to the intent of the scriptures. If the cafateria approach were correct with every one picking and choosing different things to keep and throw out and frequently changing their minds, how would we ever know what was right and what was wrong? The fact is the scriptures demand that you accept it all as the word of God, or do yourself a favor and accept none of it at all.

How can I as a Christian make such a comment? Isen't some bible better then none at all? Here is your answer. The bible is a book based on Faith, (the belief in that which is not seen but believed as though it were). It was not written for or to be understood by those who would answer No my original question. To them, it is silly foolishness, confusing, vague, full of things that people can't seemingly ever understand.

As for understanding the bible, the scripture answer you are looking for is in 1 Cor 2:14.
"Spiritual Decernment", (the understanding of spiritual/heavenly things). Only people who answered with honest convicted, Yes, have the devine gift of Faith to understand these things. Other wise you are waisting your time and energy. You will never reach your goal and you will only end up being more confused and deeper frustrated.

Your spiritual Christian life allows for no stratteling of the fence. You are in the Lords boat or you are adrift. You know yourself and you also know in your heart if you are in the Christian's boat or not! It is up to you to decide what to do next. I have told you what it takes. God has made Salvation through Jesus that simple. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As for the lesser question of who is a nudist or not. Just take a look in the nearest mirror. Ya got clothing on or not?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Any more questions call on me. Until then, thanks for your time, Sawdust

tarsus

10-01-2003, 07:06 AM

some of this i have said before but i am a repeater. you can prove or disprove anything with a bible. same thing for a book of morman, same thing for a quran,torah,or any of the others i bet, which i have not read. i am a christian,
period. but i never put one of those "honk if love jesus" bumper stickers on my car, that would get you the bird,or cussed out. remember those back in the early 70s? to the one with the niece.
some of these places are very controlling she needs to be careful or she will be sucked into a vortex. i am a beliver but i have been around the block several times and know what can happen to lambs in a field full of wolves.

Trailscout

10-01-2003, 07:45 AM

A few years ago, I bought a car that had a bumper sticker on it that said, "Jesus is the Answer".
I don't believe that bumper stickers are an effective way to encourage people to consider faith in Jesus, but I decided not to remove the bumper sticker either.

A few months later at a college parking lot, someone had taken a key or sharp object and shredded the bumper sticker. It was definitely a hand job and not the result of a passing car.

I was disappointed that someone out there thinks that I don't have the right to express a religious opinion if he doesn't happen to agree with it, so much so that he would destroy my property.

By the way Tarsus, you probably have read at least part of the Torah and you just don't know it. The Torah is simply the books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Sound familiar? They are in every CHRISTIAN's Bible!

sawdust

10-01-2003, 08:11 AM

Greeting Tarsus,
"Having been around the block a few times" you are seeming still aimlessly going in circles. I wont be your judge. That is God's job. Consider this though, the word of God says He would rather have you hot (on fire with His word) or cold (in complete denial of Him and His word. Anything else He vomits out. How can you be a Christian and denie the Christ? By your reply then I would take your answer as a "No" to my question. You can not be in the middle on this issue and the Christian faith is not a caffeteria. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Naturist Mark

10-01-2003, 04:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sawdust:
Now some folks think that the Bible is a cafateria where you can pick and choose what it is you like and what you will cast off. That is totally contrary to the intent of the scriptures. If the cafateria approach were correct with every one picking and choosing different things to keep and throw out and frequently changing their minds, how would we ever know what was right and what was wrong? The fact is the scriptures demand that you accept it all as the word of God, or do yourself a favor and accept none of it at all.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How does an all-or-nothing guy answer the 'Dr. Laura letter'?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I will simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws in Leviticus and Exodus and how to best follow them. To wit:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as stated in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how can I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Canadians, but not Mexicans. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Sincerely,
A devoted listener
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah I've heard some people explain that those refer to MOSAIC law, no longer in force under the new covenant. But does that mean they were righteous at one time, but are not now? Did God really change the rules, or did man achieve a better understanding in later times than the original writers of the Torah?

Personally I prefer to believe that mankind has been growing into a closer understanding of what God wants for us, rather than that God has evolved from a primitive monster to a more seemly modern deity.

-Mark

Trailscout

10-01-2003, 08:33 PM

Mark, you asked, "How does an all-or-nothing guy answer the 'Dr. Laura letter'?"

I have spent quite a few years studying the old Testament, particularly the Torah. David wrote entire psalms of praise for the Mosaic law. It might seem strange or harsh to you, but it is far more humane than the code of Hammurabi from which some of the language derives. I still believe God inspired it, but he used some of the phraseology of ancient Sumer because of the respect it carried in those days, but the Hebrew law is in every respect a superior legal code to Sumerian law. Moses was steeped in Egyptian law, he was third in succession to Pharoah's throne until his disgrace and exile. But Hebrew law is far more egalitarian than Egyptian law. Moses was a micromanager, but his own shepherd father-in-law, Jethro urged him to set up a tiered court system to hear cases of increasing gravity.

I am a little surprized that you trotted out that Dr. Laura letter again. It is a funny joke, but any casual student of the Bible could easily refute all the objections to Hebrew law.

First, animal sacrifice was forbidden everywhere but the temple mount once the Jews reached the Promised Land, so your quip about nuisance smoke from the altar is bogus. Secondly, Jesus the Messiah fulfilled the sacrificial system. The need for atonement remains, it is simply fulfilled by Messiah's death. Now Dr. Laura or any Jew would be hard pressed to explain why there are no more animals sacrificed on the Day of Atonement on the Temple Mount. That's their problem, not mine.

We deplore the concept of slavery in our culture, but as it was practiced among Jews, it was simply a temporary service until a debt was paid. Non-Jewish captives could be servants for life, but within 3 or 4 generations, descendants of slaves could become naturalized Jews.

With all the debt we are under today, many people are little more than slaves to a mortgage and car payment, we are just too polite to call it what it is.

Laws of cleanliness whether regarding menstruation or any other matter were ceremonies for the benefit of the ancient Hebrews. Even the most literal-minded theologians have never claimed that ceremonial law is still in effect. They can only be observed in the context of pre-Messianic Israel.

The Dr. Laura story also mentions stoning people for not observing the Sabbath. You quite overlook that sin offerings would have covered many of these offenses. The penalty was rarely carried out. Not only that, Jesus proclaimed himself Lord of the Sabbath and showed a better way to observe a day honoring God the Father. There are even old Testament prophets who discuss the true meaning of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath!

The "letter" also questions whether there are decrees to which a sin is abominable, citing the consumption of shellfish vs engaging in Sodomy.

Dietary law is on a different plane than sexual misconduct. In the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter had a vision of unclean creatures proclaimed acceptable to eat. There are still some health concerns about eating shellfish, particulary the prospect of getting hepatitis, but the requirement was largely ceremonial, to teach separation and holiness toward God. Homosexuality was clearly condemned by the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans. God's ideal for mankind remains one man monogamously married to one woman for life.

The passage in Leviticus 20:20 which states that one "may not approach the altar of God" with a defect in his sight. This is another aspect of ceremonial law that demonstrates the utter unapproachability of sinful man to a holy God. At the death of Jesus the curtain enclosed the Holy of Holys was torn by the power of God, symbolizing the access the redeemed have in Jesus to the awesome holiness of God.

Let's address your specific questions,
"Yeah I've heard some people explain that those refer to MOSAIC law, no longer in force under the new covenant. But does that mean they were righteous at one time, but are not now?
Mosaic law represented the most just system of government possible to a fallen people 2000 years ago. The underlying principles were righteous and remain so. These commandments are fulfilled by the law of love, paid for by the death of Messiah and expanded by divine revelation to show the way to the entire world.

You ask, "Did God really change the rules..."
Again the rules have changed, the principles have not. God gave us what we could handle and built precept upon precept over a period of some 3000 years.

missouriboy

10-02-2003, 02:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>The "letter" also questions whether there are decrees to which a sin is abominable, citing the consumption of shellfish vs engaging in Sodomy.

Dietary law is on a different plane than sexual misconduct. In the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter had a vision of unclean creatures proclaimed acceptable to eat. There are still some health concerns about eating shellfish, particulary the prospect of getting hepatitis, but the requirement was largely ceremonial, to teach separation and holiness toward God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, I'm no scholar of this discipline, but I saw a dissertation by a dietician who alluded to this subject. She said (paraphrased)...

"The bible even tells us not to eat shellfish. This is because God created the shellfish to be the biological sewer for the oceans, not to be food for man. The shellfish does not excrete waste, therefore all the toxins and garbage that it ever consumed is still in there, and you don't want it in your body."

Now, in that context, is eating shellfish really a sin? Or were we (mankind) just being admonished to avoid inappropriate food, for our own good?

Educational instruction, if you will? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Trailscout

10-02-2003, 06:39 AM

Missouriboy,

God speaks volumes with great economy of words. Any given passage of scripture can have multiple levels of meaning and cannot often be isolated from adjacent scripture.

In this example, the proscription of shellfish is part of a much broader set of proscriptions designed to distinguish the Jew, (which literally means the people who praise God) from the rest of the idolatrous cultures around them. The Jew had distinctive clothing, hair style, diet, legal system and even a distinctive village architecture. Holiness is separation unto God and they were commanded to be distinct and holy in every way.

Now God could have forbidden salmon from the Jewish diet. Why did he forbid specifically shellfish? For the health reasons you gave, but it was also part of a much broader attempt to teach cultural holiness in the hope that it would motivate true spiritual holiness.

Jochanaan

10-03-2003, 01:32 PM

Very briefly: Some Christians, even today, advocate following the kosher food laws. But the majority of Christians would only include the Ten Commandments as binding on us, not the entire Jewish law, and certainly not the sacrificial penalties because of Jesus' sacrifice. (And most Christians adjust the Fourth Commandment, "Remember the Sabbath day..." to apply to Sunday.)

The specifics of what binds us and what does not have been debated ever since those 40 days on Mount Sinai. I'm not surprised it's so hard for us to agree! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, in the absence of authoritative instruction, I'll just love everybody as well as I can. "Charity shall cover the multitude of sins." (I Peter 4:8)

Naturist Mark

10-03-2003, 03:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Mark, you asked, "How does an all-or-nothing guy answer the 'Dr. Laura letter'?"
[snipped for brevity]
I am a little surprized that you trotted out that Dr. Laura letter again. It is a funny joke, but any casual student of the Bible could easily refute all the objections to Hebrew law.
[snipped for brevity]
You ask, "Did God really change the rules..."
Again the rules have changed, the principles have not. God gave us what we could handle and built precept upon precept over a period of some 3000 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Trailscout,

Yes, the 'Dr. Laura' letter is basically humor. Humor sure helps when discussing... anything. But it is based on real Bible quotes and does well to absurdly illustrate the problem with literalism. No one seriously advocates following all these laws today, not even the most conservative of observant Jews, yet they are still right there in the Bible- they illustrate the necessity to employ scholarship and judgement when interpreting the Bible in order to find the message God meant for us.

We can go round and round about how evil slavery was or wasn't as practiced by ancient Hebrews, but that misses the point. It is universally recognized as evil today, and I don't think mankind is ahead of God on this, I think we are still catching up.

God is timeless (in my view), but mankind is not. I prefer to ascribe the errors, inconsistencies and moral shortcomings evident thoughout the Bible to mankind's imperfections - not God's.

Inspiration is not perfection. The Bible is not a perfect book - because it is mankind's book, but with faith, humility, and intelligence we can glimpse perfection through its pages.

-Mark

David77

10-03-2003, 06:33 PM

Who wrote the Torah? Probably it is a compilation from four different (and even differing) sources, as has been pointed out by scholars of the scripture down through the ages. (Spinoza, of old, was persecuted for his examination of this very question).

The Jewish Bible scholor, Richard Elliott Friedman, one of the most eminent Bible scholors today, gives a brilliant, scholarly account in his book entitled "Who Wrote the Bible" meaning the Jewish Bible.

10-03-2003, 08:36 PM

"The shellfish does not excrete waste, therefore all the toxins and garbage that it ever consumed is still in there, and you don't want it in your body."

Ah, that's not true.

butnaked

10-07-2003, 11:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
"The shellfish does not excrete waste, therefore all the toxins and garbage that it ever consumed is still in there, and you don't want it in your body."

Ah, that's not true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea, What Cyndiann said.
Nothing living on earth consumes without excreting. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Happy Trails Bob

Trailscout

10-07-2003, 01:37 PM

God seems to have instituted dietary laws primarily to teach a lifestyle of devotion and instil the sense of being a distinct people who follow the God of Israel. That was certainly true for ceremonial cleanliness laws. They went way beyond sanitation in the physical sense.

Shellfish can be a means of contracting hepatitis if they reside in polluted water, but so can melon crops. If you grow a melon in an area where sewage contaminates the ground, germs will get into the melon. But melons are not forbidden by Jewish dietary law.

There are strict US laws that forbid harvesting shellfish in contaminated water, but there may be some problems enforcing the law everytime. Some seafood wholesalers process shellfish from many fishermen. I don't see any way that they can trace contaminated shellfish back to a single fisherman who fished in dirty waters. Consequently I avoid clams and oysters unless I know the source, but I don't do it for religious reasons.

10-07-2003, 03:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:

There are strict US laws that forbid harvesting shellfish in contaminated water, but there may be some problems enforcing the law everytime. Some seafood wholesalers process shellfish from many fishermen. I don't see any way that they can trace contaminated shellfish back to a single fisherman who fished in dirty waters. Consequently I avoid clams and oysters unless I know the source, but I don't do it for religious reasons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They trace it back by using the tags that go with each box of shellfish (like oysters). The tag shows date of harvest, where it came from, etc.

nude in wheelchair

10-12-2003, 11:55 PM

These Laws that are given by God are for our safty He knows what we can take and not take, or keep ourself out of danger. The Ten commandments are the law to keep use safe if we follow those laws. Gods know what will happen if we chose not to. Because of Jesus we can talk to God for guideniss and comfort anytime it that easy now. Like he said "If you love, you have love me and the father" May Jesus be in all of our hearts.

God Bless, Todd

NW Nude

10-13-2003, 10:15 AM

Been reading this thread for awhile and wonder why the question is "any naturist christians out there", and all it seems to be is a debate about doctrine and what you can and can't eat. To answer the question, yes I'm a Born Again Christian. Meaning I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That the only way to heaven is through forgiveness of our sins through the blood of Christ. I also respect whatever you believe, and will not debate it unless you request my advise or help. As far as food, circumsision etc. It should be up to your personal beliefs. We have the health department to regulate our foods, maybe many years ago the church and priests felt it was there job. It was a different culture and time.

Trailscout

10-13-2003, 11:35 AM

Hi NW!

This thread got offtrack on the first page.
It really did start out as an attempt by one Christian to contact other Christians, but a few people who are addicted to debates decided to take us down a rabbit trail. I admit complicity. We reached a point where we were debating the morality of eating shellfish. Sorry about that.

It would be nice if Christians continue to extend greetings to one another on this forum, so GREETINGS Y'ALL!

If any of you are looking for Christian Nudist Web sites, just send me a private message and I'll share my links.

tarsus

10-14-2003, 09:51 AM

i do not wish to beat a burning bush here, but let me say one or two things.
the torah to which i refer is a book of jewish writing. many sayings that appear in christian
writing [not a bible] really come from this.
the first five books of the bible written by moses have a differant name[cannot spell it].
by been around the block i mean "been there done that". many so called sheppards of the flock mislead their followers; sometimes by misinterption,sometimes not.
ever heard this one?
i saw someone dead in the coffin/casket friends
now i am not saying, who it was but if they do not start [fill in this part; living/ giving to the church etc.] they will not live much longer.
the money pours in on those nights, most likely a guess peacher,some big event.
like i said been there, done that,i have forgotten
more then most will ever know. lets just call me an insider. did you know one big name who has never had a scandel, paid people to come to alter
call? this was to get others started down.
indeed w.w.j.d.?
sorry it took so long to get back here but having
much trouble with phone line connection.

Trailscout

10-14-2003, 10:19 AM

Tarsus,

Would you mind taking all that to a new thread on religious debate and allow this one to return to what it was originally intended?

I got careless myself and wandered off topic, but there's no reason why we can't easily pick this up somewhere else.

We just want to extend the right hand of Christian fellowship to Christian nudists who would like to get acquainted here.

I enjoy Fig Leaf Forum e-mail newsletter, Naturist Christians Web site, Boyd Allen's Web forum and quite a few others. I am also a member of CNNF (Christian Nudist Naturist Fellowships. They had their first annual meeting and I look forward to brighter economic times when more of us can go to these spiritual retreats and offer support to the Naturist Christian community.

tarsus

10-15-2003, 08:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Tarsus,

Would you mind taking all that to a new thread on religious debate and allow this one to return to what it was originally intended?

I got careless myself and wandered off topic, but there's no reason why we can't easily pick this up somewhere else.

We just want to extend the right hand of Christian fellowship to Christian nudists who would like to get acquainted here.

I enjoy Fig Leaf Forum e-mail newsletter, Naturist Christians Web site, Boyd Allen's Web forum and quite a few others. I am also a member of CNNF (Christian Nudist Naturist Fellowships. They had their first annual meeting and I look forward to brighter economic times when more of us can go to these spiritual retreats and offer support to the Naturist Christian community. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>agreed. check your p.m.

feelingpositive

10-15-2003, 10:42 AM

Appreciate your message. It is nice to be in touch with Christians who are part of the naturist community of believers. Looking forward to hearing more and participating in discussions and meeting more Christian naturists!

Sincerely, feelingpositive

Trailscout

10-15-2003, 11:56 AM

Hey there, feelingpositive!

Many of our CNNF (Christian Nudist/Naturist Fellowships) members live in the northeastern USA. They had a social in September in Pennsylvania. Once a year they have a Christian naturist marriage retreat and have started an annual Spiritual Retreat (Convocation). This year they met in tidewater Virginia.

Several Christians also drop in at this forum as you can tell.

It's great to have the mutual support, get questions answered and just hang around and chat.

Hope to hear from you again!

nude in wheelchair

10-15-2003, 11:26 PM

I'm trying to pull a group together here in San Diego at DeAnza Spring Resort, any one out there lives in San Diego or near San Diego. I like to set a plan to meet at the resort to have fellowship and bible study, I may have one or two people sitting a nudist sunday school for nudist children. So any retier teachers that knows the bible and good ID can join us. Other then that come jion the fellowship.

feelingpositive

12-29-2003, 10:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trailscout:
Hey there, feelingpositive!

Many of our CNNF (Christian Nudist/Naturist Fellowships) members live in the northeastern USA. They had a social in September in Pennsylvania. Once a year they have a Christian naturist marriage retreat and have started an annual Spiritual Retreat (Convocation). This year they met in tidewater Virginia.

Several Christians also drop in at this forum as you can tell.

It's great to have the mutual support, get questions answered and just hang around and chat.

Hope to hear from you again! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

feelingpositive

12-29-2003, 10:52 AM

Hi Trailscout! Happy New Year to you! Thanks very much for your post. I look forward to the good times and support you mentioned. May 2004 be a spectacular year for all! Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm a bit new at navagating around here. Only recently did I discover your kind response.
Best Wishes, feelingpositive!

nudewheelchairTodd

12-29-2003, 01:54 PM

Welcome to the forum Feelingpositive. As a disable person there nothing like following the Lord with out hiding anything, and being with others on here or at the resort I attend to during the warmer weather, I don't feel different.

feelingpositive

12-29-2003, 02:47 PM

nudewheelchairtodd...Hello, and thanks for the warm welcome to the Forum! God Bless You in your openness and happiness! Satisfying days to you in the Exciting New Year! Crank that wheelchair up into high speed, and blast right into 2004! Thanks, feelingpositive!

nudewheelchairTodd

12-29-2003, 08:09 PM

Your very welcome and let pray for another year to be good and productive. Also pray for more relaxtation on nudisy in certian lces so we who are disabl won't have to struggle to get dress just to check our mail boxes or just paying the rent or etc...

a1922stanley

12-30-2003, 01:17 AM

Greetings from Sacramneto. I am a Christian and a nudist. As in the Bible "I am wonderfully, and fearfully made." I place all my faith and trust in Christ and his finished work on the cross. I have found nothing in God's word that is against social nudism. I feel it is neither lustful nor sinful. Since we are made in the image of God why should we be ashamed of God's most beautiful creation and see it for the beauty of it? If one is in Christ and can live a holy life nude then by all means it is good. How much closer can you be than when you have nothing between you and the Lord. I have found that some of my best Bible studies were with fellow nudist Christians nude and reading God's word.

In Christ...

Chris

bobthebaritone

12-30-2003, 04:31 AM

Hi!

Bob here! Just about to hit the hay (0030 Sydney time - @ writting). Had a wonderful second last day of 2003.

Went to Cobblers Beach in Sydney Harbour, a place where you don't have to wear swimmers.

Rode home on my bike with a wonderful tailwind.

Having the wonder of God's creation around is wonderful!

I look for what people are, and nudism is part of striping off barriers. Let us all reach out in 2004 to make Christs message of peace, love and understanding reach out to others!

Yes, I am a nudist, a Christian, a Dad , a singer, a cyclist and absolutely pushing people out of their media driven comfort zone!!!!

Peace be with you all!

George SoCal

12-30-2003, 06:41 AM

In defense of Christians

Since I am not a Christian, but perhaps a Deist, and more likely an atheist, I am not only "tolerant" of Christians, but support Christian morality as a basis for our interaction.

I find fault with others of my beliefs who dismiss Christians and their moral code. I personally have no objection to multifaith prayer in public arenas or even in schools. I even participate to the degree of bowing my head out of respect for others knowing that according to my belief there is no penalty for such!

Nonetheless, the Judeo/Christian moral code is of importance even for me. No matter how hard it may be for me to acknowledge the spiritual aspect of it, I do know that the moral code has been developed with a good purpose in mind over the ages - mainly that it is necessary for civilization to exist.

I also find that family centeredness is particularly appealing. And as a naturist this is the area that needs the most attention!

I am troubled by the increased use of our clubs and beaches by swingers, exhibitionists, masturbators, and homosexuals who act out their tendencies in public. Now don't get me wrong, I am not talking about what they are so much as how some (I should add, a very small minority) of them behave. Fortunately at the places I visit, we speak out against these activities, but I've noticed over the last 7 or 8 years an increase in the frequency of these attempts. But I can't say that this is true in all venues, and I suspect that in many the enforcement is much more lax.

Behavior is after all the only means we have to make judgements. And a strong moral code helps to define bad behavior. We need this if we are ever to keep this lifestyle truly family oriented.

Which leads me to the issue of "tolerance".
I can tolerate a gay couple hanging out on the beach with me and my family. I cannot tolerate sexual activity between them any more than tolerate sexual activity and behaviors between man and a woman.

Which leads to the concept of "chaste" nudity, which means primarily without sexual intent. Chaste does not mean that we are asexual, but only in our public behavior.

Given whom I would rather share my beach or club with, I'd rather share it with a Christian family practicing chaste nudity than tolerate a couple with genital and nipple piercings and tatoos.

Surprising to me how many who share my Deistic/atheistic tendencies have it the other way around. In the name of tolerance they would put up with most any behavior, but will not tolerate a Christian! God Forbid! (oops!)

Jochanaan

12-30-2003, 10:54 AM

Thank you, George SoCal! It's wonderful to hear from a non-Christian who still sees the good in Christian people and Christian standards.

It appears that most people here agree with you in not condemning sex, just its practice in public. "To every thing there is a season..." (Ecclesiastes 3:1) I would merely add, as I have stated elsewhere, that there is a real difference between sensuousness and sexuality. Contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to feel wind or wave flowing along our naked flesh, revel in the sensuous pleasure, and not even think about sexual intercourse! All we have to do is break the conditioning the world has forced upon us.

12-31-2003, 12:37 AM

George,

An excellent post. I find no fault with any of it. You are the most tolerant non-Christian I've come across. Even Christians aren't perfect--yet, but hopefully we're striving for it. I would question the truth of anyone's Christianity who claims to be a Christian and isn't striving to be like Christ.

Jochanaan,

This last April we had one day in the low 80's. I took advantage of it and went to the resort. It was very windy, and the wind blowing on my genitals was a very pleasant feeling, but sex certainly never entered my mind. Besides, I would need Viagra to do anything about that.

Luketor

01-30-2004, 03:26 PM

Yes, I am a Christian and a naturist ... though I'm not sure we exactly speak the same language - if you know what I mean. Spirituality, as that which expresses ones relationship with God, is something I see and believe as embracing and permeating that which is the whole person: body, mind and spirit. Expressing our nakedness ... and to rejoice in our nakedness and the freedom of our bodies is as valid and enriching a way to express ourselves as children of God as it is when we seek to kneel with our brothers and sisters on Sunday in prayer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Hey Guys,

I have noticed, as I have talked to a lot of naturist people, that there is a lack of real Christian Naturist out there. Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself...

I want to know if there are any real Christian Naturist out there who carry real Christian Values...as in:

1) Allowing their walk to match there talk

2) Not blatantly condemning others every chance they get simply beacuse they don't agree with them, but accepting others and drawing them to them by love, patience, and a guiding light...

3)Hold true Christian Values and genuinely love the Lord and his teachings, using them to break down the strong holds against man and nature knowing that we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against pricipalities and the rulers of darkness...

I really hope that there are some Naturist Christians out there that I can chat with...also I cover this post with the Might Blood of Jesus and I render the Devil powerless, harmless, and ineffective in allowing anything to come against me in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ...AMEN...

"It's one thing to call yourself a Christian - it's another when those who know you agree!"

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LeeR49

02-02-2004, 08:30 AM

I am only an occasional visitor to these forums, and have therefore missed, until today, this thread. I would like to stand up and be counted among those who unreservedly proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord, and seek to follow Him in all things and proclaim Him to all peoples. It would be my pleasure to hear from anyone who shares the same world-view, and who would like to connect for purposes of mutual edification and encouragement. For those who don't, please forgive me, but I'm just not up to debate right now. Maybe some other time.

I'm a little surprised that noone has mentioned Fig Leaf Forum in this thread. It's a 12-page, text-only newsletter with the sated purpose of "Providing Fellowship, Edification And Encouragement For Bible-Believing Christian Nudists, Promoting Chastity, Reverence, Responsibility And Consideration Within Social Nudism" More info is available at their web site (http://www.figleafforum.com) Tell John that Pastor Lee sent you.

Lee

sawdust

02-02-2004, 10:47 AM

What is a REAL Christian Nudist? The problem with this question is that the author of this question is obligated to define the standard for what a REAL Christian Nudist is. We then would have a guide by which to judge ourselves. Sawdust

02-02-2004, 12:06 PM

Very good point sawdust! Since the word christian means something different from person to person you will never be able to solidly define it.

Even among christians some believe you have to believe in a certain way to be "real" and that most other christians are following a false religion. Problem is there are a lot that think that. Who is to say who is right if any at all?

Trailscout

02-03-2004, 01:37 AM

Jesus of Nazareth simply asked people to believe in him and follow him. His own disciples asked him to rebuke a separate group of people who were baptizing in his name. Jesus said, "Whoever is not against us is for us". Why make it any harder than that?

Is it that hard to define what a nudist is? If it is difficult, maybe you are trying too hard. Would it suffice to say that a nudist is a person who thinks that social nudity is acceptable? There might be varying degrees to which people practice social nudity, but that is a side issue.

I would enjoy hearing from anyone who feels that he or she is a Christian and a nudist. We might not agree on the fine points, but this thread is simply a place to say "Howdy!"

splitfeather

02-03-2004, 01:18 PM

Howdy Trailscout
Tolerance and in-tolerance...,it will be found no matter what side of the fence or even in the same pasture. My pilosophy is"let em be what they is and let God sort it out"
I am a full gospel christian(for title sake)charismatic. I have a B.S.deg. in Bilical studies, been ordained and served as a pastor. I am a nudist. I even live in a nudist park with other christians and non. All my family knows my wife and I are nudist, all my friends know. As a matter of fact,all the bloomin county knows because I was on a T.V. interview twice.
Proud to be a christian? Yes! Ashamed to be a nudist?No! Both of them are my life that I choose and I am at peace with.
I socialise with christians and socialise with non christians. If Im not mistaken, Jesus had a lot of followers and friends that were, in a sense, non-beleivers. Point? He loved and recived them all. Some stayed, some left, but He was always there. As a Christian-nudist, I acccept pepole for who they are. If they dont like me as a Christian,they take themselves away.
Any how, good discussion Trialscout. It' been a long time (2 years?) since I last spoke to you. Lived on the Oregon coast at the time.
Blessings to all of you, and if you don't belive, take them any way as a token of Christian love and respect for your feelings and view on life.

Gunude day!!!

Tom in "soggy Oregon"

nudewheelchairTodd

02-04-2004, 10:19 PM

Amen to that Tom, I like what you siad. As a disable person using a wheelchair people sometimes ask me. How/Why could I be happy to be in a wheelchair and disable. I tell them I have Jesus inmy heart and God has a plan to use me to help others. As I do help children at an elementry school not only I help teach them on the school work but encourage them to pray if they need to or I'll tell them I will pray for or with them. I act as a shephard to some of them guiding them to work hard and to look up at Jesuswhen they have a hard time just as I do. ok ok I beging to ramble on I'll roll off the stand for now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nudebynature

02-12-2004, 10:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prometheus:
Thanks for the responses. Looks like I guessed right for the most part.

Miami, you are making it sound like some people are trying to pick a fight with you. I hope you don't think I'm one of them. If you do, you're taking yourself way too seriously. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am only half way through reading this group, but hate the idea of seeming exclusive. Jesus sought the company of sinners.

Miami, it seems that a number of other people think that you are coming across as a little self-righteous, like the rest of us aren't up to your high standards. Perhaps, you should reflect on what you wrote. It certainly sets a bad example for others, especially people who are interested like Prometheus.

We are only here for a short time. If we really want to make a difference and stand up for Christ, we should include non-Christians in our company and try to touch their lives so that they can enjoy a life in Christ, too.

Nothing is more satisfying than having a close relationship with the Lord. We should want that not just for ourselves, but for others.

I think that you were getting the cold shoulder. You are not being argumentative or disruptive. You are just asking good questions.

God wants us to fellowship with believers. We can uphold and strengthen each other. Getting believers together should be a unifying and harmonious experience.

Unfortunately, as you observe Christians in action, you will see divisions emerge. I don't think that this is good witness. It is one of the things that non-believers have a hard time getting over. Why join a group that is full of dissention?

It kept me from becoming a Christian for the longest time. You have to look past the people who call themselves Christians and see Jesus. Many people want you to look at them. Avoid this. We are all sinners and sometimes are poor ambassadors.

God knew each of us before we were born because He made each and everyone of us. That means you are special and that He loves you, just as much as He loves me!

Don't hold it against God, if we do not represent Him well.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
"Clothes make the man, but nakedness makes the human being." -- Kevin Kearney

Tyco

02-19-2004, 07:52 AM

I have not had a chance to read through all these posts yet but I have been a Christian for many years.

HansM

03-10-2004, 06:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cyndiann:
What would Jesus do if he had some intellectual points tossed at him? Would he have run away from them and view them as attacks? (saying there was a Jesus)
TXK NUDE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You made some great points and one of the best uses of scripture that I have ever seen. Jesus loved the sinners while dispising the sin, I only wish I could do it half as well as he did.

The only thing that I could add is one must be very careful when choosing a church and which pastor to believe. They do not all speak the truth, many pastors are teaching lies and hate.

Miami even though I understood what you were saying you did come off a little righteous and I do believe that I meet your criteria, but I also would not say it quite like that.

I believe any Christian or non-Christian that is seeking the truth with an open heart is true. Non-Christians can act more Christ like than many who claim to follow Christ. I am not trying to pass judgement, but people's actions speak much louder than their words.

Leo

03-13-2004, 07:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Miami_Newdist:
Hey Guys,

I have noticed, as I have talked to a lot of naturist people, that there is a lack of real Christian Naturist out there. Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself...

I want to know if there are any real Christian Naturist out there who carry real Christian Values...as in:

1) Allowing their walk to match there talk

2) Not blatantly condemning others every chance they get simply beacuse they don't agree with them, but accepting others and drawing them to them by love, patience, and a guiding light...

3)Hold true Christian Values and genuinely love the Lord and his teachings, using them to break down the strong holds against man and nature knowing that we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against pricipalities and the rulers of darkness...

I really hope that there are some Naturist Christians out there that I can chat with...also I cover this post with the Might Blood of Jesus and I render the Devil powerless, harmless, and ineffective in allowing anything to come against me in the Mighty name of Jesus Christ...AMEN...

"It's one thing to call yourself a Christian - it's another when those who know you agree!"

J <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Miami_Newdist,

I am a reborn again christian nudist, I am from Pennsylvania. I love my Lord God with all of my heart and soul. Yes I can walk the walk with the Lord and I can also talk the talk with him also. If you wish to be my friend I will accept you as such, Friendships are needed here. Fellowships is a must. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And may God Bless you and protect you each and everyday... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Proud to be nude, with the Lord Jesus Christ /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Elton

03-14-2004, 07:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Who is to say who is right if any at all? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A fourteen year-old boy asked that very same question. His answer can be found here (http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1).

03-14-2004, 07:44 PM

Elton, thanks for the great example of what I was referring to. Once again we have one person saying they know the truth and that the rest are false.

This type of thing creates an "us against them" mentality that leads people to force their beliefs on others in order to "save" them from imagined badness like devils and hell.

Miami Newdist, you posted "Also, on top of that there is a great deal of people that have given up on religion altogether, which is very disheartening to myself..."

I think it isn't a case of giving up on anything, more than likely it's finding a better way. Christians tend to think of non christians as lost, unhappy, wrong. It just isn't like that, no more than it is for christians.I know a lot of christians who are lost and unhappy. I don't think that christians (or non-christians for that matter) should determine for others if they are happy and content with their lives or not.

OZJames

03-14-2004, 08:32 PM

GoergeSoCal -"Given whom I would rather share my beach or club with, I'd rather share it with a Christian family practicing chaste nudity than tolerate a couple with genital and nipple piercings and tatoos."

We know what nudists say about whats wrong with clothes and elsewhere on this forum are posts about textiles on nudist beaches. I think you will notice on that post that tolerance is the key word. There is no problem with textiles on a clothes free beach as long as they don't stare, stalk etc.

I think body piercing and tatoos are a form of dress. People wear clothes (apart from warmth and modesty,)to make state statements about themselves. In themselves body jewelery is not ugly and tatoos are often beautiful. Neither is threatening to the viewer in any way - as quoted above "Clothes make the man".

You cannot suggest that a person who wears body piercing jewelery or tatoos is any less of a person than one whom does not. Do you have the same opinion of shaved people ?

I agree that piercing the body or skin with needles has risks but life would be very boring if we did not take risks.

All people should be tolerant of other people's beliefs, clothing, ways of life, religions etc. We all learn from others.

JAMES