Offense

[Jochanaan]

I have been thinking about the state of being offended recently, and realize that it's a foreign state to me. Some treat nudity, profanity, sexual actions, as if they shouldn't exist, and are revolted by them as by feces, but I haven't felt that way about nudity, profanity, sexuality, or anything else for a long time. I have been angered, saddened, frustrated--but not offended or revolted.

But being offended seems to be fashionable these days. It's politically correct to treat racist language, child nudity, hateful speech as if it were filth. "Get it out of my sight! Close down that adult bookstore! Burn that rap CD!"

Look: The world is a nasty place. Nasty things happen. It has been that way ever since Adam and Eve ate the fruit. It's unrealistic to demand never to see, hear, smell, taste or feel anything that revolts your senses (including your moral sense). No law will change that; it will just drive the nastiness underground, where nasty things get nastier and nastier! So why waste energy and time being offended? Accept the event and walk away. And do your best to reduce your own personal nastiness. The speech of one offended is one of the nastiest of nasty things.

(I'm passionate about this because I used to work as a customer service representative. Over and over I saw that angry and offended people can't listen and can't think. I had to let the anger and offendedness run their course before I could talk with them and solve the problem.)

[Jochanaan]

I have been thinking about the state of being offended recently, and realize that it's a foreign state to me. Some treat nudity, profanity, sexual actions, as if they shouldn't exist, and are revolted by them as by feces, but I haven't felt that way about nudity, profanity, sexuality, or anything else for a long time. I have been angered, saddened, frustrated--but not offended or revolted.

But being offended seems to be fashionable these days. It's politically correct to treat racist language, child nudity, hateful speech as if it were filth. "Get it out of my sight! Close down that adult bookstore! Burn that rap CD!"

Look: The world is a nasty place. Nasty things happen. It has been that way ever since Adam and Eve ate the fruit. It's unrealistic to demand never to see, hear, smell, taste or feel anything that revolts your senses (including your moral sense). No law will change that; it will just drive the nastiness underground, where nasty things get nastier and nastier! So why waste energy and time being offended? Accept the event and walk away. And do your best to reduce your own personal nastiness. The speech of one offended is one of the nastiest of nasty things.

(I'm passionate about this because I used to work as a customer service representative. Over and over I saw that angry and offended people can't listen and can't think. I had to let the anger and offendedness run their course before I could talk with them and solve the problem.)

Interesting views....I agree up to a point....I feel the" nastiness" we would be exposed to ...without laws..could be overwhelming leading /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif to the detriment of our health and safety.

[Jochanaan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by outdoorbare:
Interesting views....I agree up to a point....I feel the" nastiness" we would be exposed to ...without laws..could be overwhelming leading /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif to the detriment of our health and safety. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True. Real nastiness needs to be fought. But we can't do it just by being offended and trying to get a law passed. That's the mistake some of the anti-abortion crew have made and continue to make. We (I am against abortion myself) also need to use logic and relationships to reduce and eliminate abortion on demand. And someone needs to care for the unwanted children and their mothers.

As for nudism, haven't many of us encountered someone who was just so offended he/she couldn't even listen to our reasoning? My own suspicion is that offense re nudity flows from discomfort, which may flow from body-shame as Nate Dekan has so eloquently described on his site.

If we don't waste time getting offended, we are more likely to see clearly the real evils that need to be attacked, instead of seeing evil all around and burning ourselves out attacking everything that doesn't suit us just so.

[TXK NUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochanaan:
I have been thinking about the state of being offended recently, and realize that it's a foreign state to me.

(I'm passionate about this because I used to work as a customer service representative. Over and over I saw that angry and offended people can't listen and can't think. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Um, don't look now, but I think you might be offended by people who get offended! I personally get offended at that! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(just kidding!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Rik]

I would argue that one cannot be offended at the mere sight of nudity although I agree that some people may find the sight uncomfortable or embarrassing but that is not the same as being offended. Being offended requires, in my view, an element of personal threat: it is the result of directed abuse.

If someone walks up to me and says "you're a f**king b*stard" the I would feel offended. If that same person stood in the middle of a shopping mall and shouted the same thing to no-one in particular, I might feel uncomfortable but I certainly wouldn't feel offended. It's the same with nudity. If a naked person uses their nakedness in an abusive manner then they are likely to cause offense but simply being naked cannot, in itself, be offensive.

Ask anyone who claims to be offended by the sight of nudity to describe the nature of the offensiveness and they cannot answer. At best they can describe discomfort or embarrassment and as naturists we know that such feelings quickly dissipate once a peson gets used to seeing nudity.

It seems therefore unreasonable to pass laws which protect people from transitory discomfort when what should protect them is the general sensitivity which one person has towards others. This works for most forms of social interaction, why not for simple nudity - the most pure and innocent of human conditions?

Rik

[EricNY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would argue that one cannot be offended at the mere sight of nudity although I agree that some people may find the sight uncomfortable or embarrassing but that is not the same as being offended. Being offended requires, in my view, an element of personal threat: it is the result of directed abuse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So what you mean is people really aren't offended by the sight of a nude body. They are afraid of it?

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ercNY:
So what you mean is people really aren't offended by the sight of a nude body. They are afraid of it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

Rik

[missouriboy]

Also recall that "being offended" is a strategy employed by the "professional victim" set, whose goal is either to get rich with some kind of damage award, or to just flaunt their "control freak" nature.

[luvnaturism]

I recently witnessed a conversation in which a woman said that she had gone to Orient Beach to "check it out." She became quite angry as she said that there wasn't a single naked person worth looking at, and every one of those people should have kept their clothes on. She managed to sound very righteous as she told the story. I suppose she would think it's what the Bible calls righteous anger.

She knew it was a nude beach. She knew there would be naked people there. She decided to be a voyeur and go look at the naked people. So now she's mad because she found what she knew in advance would be there?

Unfortunately people who plan in advance to be offended can cause a lot of trouble to others who simply want to enjoy a day in the sun. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Jochanaan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by missouriboy:
Also recall that "being offended" is a strategy employed by the "professional victim" set, whose goal is either to get rich with some kind of damage award, or to just flaunt their "control freak" nature. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Very wise. And it's probably true that I am offended by people who get offended easily. I have personal reasons.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochanaan:
And it's probably true that I am offended by people who get offended easily. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And let's not forget those people who get offended when other people get offended at people who get offended easily. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rik

[EricNY]

Are we at fault though, for our own demise,not us personally, but others before us. Bad things have happened in the past. As we all know people remember the bad more than good.

Fighting for the right to be nude is a lost cause, unless you can change the perception of what people think you want to be nude for.

[Rik]

If you have time take a look at this (rather long) article by Mark Storey which addresses the issue of offense at public nudity. You may not agree with everything the author says but it is a balanced and thoughtful analysis of the nature of offense which should give naturists much to think about.

http://www.bodyfreedom.org/alliance/essays/offense.html

Here's a few short extracts:

"Suffice it to say here that rarely is ground gained for social justice without a few courageous souls moving forward, pushing cultural and legal envelopes, to make way for the more timid?albeit equally oppressed?group."

"We must also keep in mind that behavior that offends is not only morally permissible at times, but obligatory."

"Activists like Vincent Bethell, photographers like Harvey Drouillard and Spencer Tunnick, and filmmakers like Charles MacFarland have contested the standard claim that people will automatically collapse in offended apoplexy at the sight of a naked body in public."

"Naturists can argue that it is abnormal for any person to be offended by mere nudity, given that nudity is our natural state and merely reveals our bodily selves. The point worth exploring is whether a society can be so twisted, mixed up, neurotic, or otherwise confused as to be guided by abnormal sensibilities."

"Is there social value in non-sexual public nudity? ... Given the growing trend away from body acceptance among people of all ages (e.g., high school students are afraid to take showers in front of others and college-age males are now concerned about back hair), given the unhealthy tie the entertainment industry continues to make between nudity and sex, and given the related psychological disorders of bulimia and anorexia, there is ample call for the promulgation of naturist practice and values. Clothing-optional beaches and public parks, as well as the normalizing of nudity on one?s own property, would be good steps toward alleviating a growing set of social ills."

Rik

[Kenny G]

What makes me wonder is this....Most of the population has/had a dog or cat as a pet. These animals walk proudly with their tail held high, they lick themselves openly and even the "morality police" aren't objected or offended because "they're just being dogs/cats". Yet, the state of "just being human" is deemed offensive and as such is illegal except in certain confined and restricted areas. Some things in this world, you just can't explain......

[steevo]

Kenny,
You just gave me a great idea. all I have to do is get a mask of a dog and tell poeple that want to know, that I am doing a study on dogs. Trying to see the world from a dogs perspective. After all everyone loves dogs and will stop what they are doing to pet and talk to a dog just walking down the street.
If I wasn't married, I would dame sure give it a try. After all, all I would have to tell them is I forgot to do my meds. today.
Steevo Here /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[DarkAngel]

Hmmm..self righteous control freaks..As an artist, this sort of thing is close to home for me, big time. I remember John Stossel doing a special about free speech, where he asked- "Do those of us who get the most offended get to make the rules?"

Good question.

I remember reading something on one artist's website, referring to people who look for things to get offended by and freak out over. It went something like this:
"They come onto this website, and ignore the disclaimers about "adult" material..They see a thumbnail of something, and think "Oooh, that's baad! I have to blow it up full size to see just how bad it is!" And then, after ignoring the warnings, and enlarging thumbnails that they knew would offend them, they have the temarity to email him and complain!

As for the woman who said all those folks at the nude beach should have kept their clothes on, I bet she does not have a supermodel perfect body, either. If she did not like it, she was free to leave.