My YMCA Story and proposal....

[Jerry22]

One day I was swimming at my local YMCA and I realized I was late for an appointment. Jumping from the water I ran into the changing room. Unfortunately, the 10 year old male swim team had just gotten out and every single member was using every single shower, and those who didn't receive a shower were all huddled in the center. What struck me was that everybody was just getting along. Sure everybody has probably looked around created a mental picture of each other boy naked, but they all accepted the nakedness.

My proposal to getting kids into this sort of thing is to create summer camps. I have yet to find a good summer camp for kids that is nude. The first year is single sex (to get used to everything), and returning campers have a separate, co-ed environment.

What does everybody else think?

[Jerry22]

One day I was swimming at my local YMCA and I realized I was late for an appointment. Jumping from the water I ran into the changing room. Unfortunately, the 10 year old male swim team had just gotten out and every single member was using every single shower, and those who didn't receive a shower were all huddled in the center. What struck me was that everybody was just getting along. Sure everybody has probably looked around created a mental picture of each other boy naked, but they all accepted the nakedness.

My proposal to getting kids into this sort of thing is to create summer camps. I have yet to find a good summer camp for kids that is nude. The first year is single sex (to get used to everything), and returning campers have a separate, co-ed environment.

What does everybody else think?

[triaduw]

I think it is a great idea. I have often wondered if anyone would suggest something along those lines. I think it would be good overall in the long run. Less problems later in life when dealing with people.

[Gary Naturist]

Would be nice, but too dangerous I think, unless the kids come from nudist families or are very young.

Older kids at co-ed camps get into enough trouble as it is now without giving them further encouragement. I can see the owners and staff of such a camp getting sued for any of a number of reasons.

Gary

[Dominus Nudo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Naturist:
Would be nice, but too dangerous I think, unless the kids come from nudist families or are very young.

Older kids at co-ed camps get into enough trouble as it is now without giving them further encouragement. I can see the owners and staff of such a camp getting sued for any of a number of reasons.

Gary <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, since they are learning that not wearing clothes is completely unrelated to sex, whatever they do is the person who did it's problem (I think I could have worded that better).

Of course, after re-reading your post (I like that little window at the bottom) I understand what you mean. Also, this can be alleviated with release forms, which is ALREADY standard procedure ("Anything that happens here is the attendant's fault" "we will not be held responsible" blah blah)
If you mean it'd hurt the spirit of the thing, that's a (small) possibility.
Also, what "older kids" do that's against the rules, is their fault.
I'm not meaning to be critical, I'm just meantioning my interpretations.
For getting something like this started, there would need to be a pool of money, to buy the land, and whatever things the government needs for a camp environment (The camp will be private property, and will definitely have signs around it, also hopefully in a warm, rural area.
Starting in a divided environment is a good suggestion, You've seen everything that you'll see there, just with some slight differences.

I guess what naturists really need is money.

By the way, does anyone know what kind of "laws" there are for international waters? What if someone made an oil rig which doubled as a town, where clothing was optional? Jobs, homes, could start commercialization, expansion. The best thing though is a state; buy an uninhabited part of some sothwestern state and move in. Indecent exposure laws are state-based, so they would be lax here (but sexual things would still be illegal) oops, getting off topic /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

[Bob S.]

I work with children in a day care setting and would love to do a nudist summer camp for kids. I would be the first in line to work at this place; a place that combines my two loves, children and nudism.

I have seen the laws that apply to day care and summer camps in Virginia and believe me, there are a lot. The only thing that it states about opposite genders are that they must have separate bathrooms. But this only applies to school aged children (ages 5 and up) and does not apply to preschool children.

I am not sure what the state would say about a nudist-based summer camp, especially a sleep-over camp. The regulations also do not specifically state that a child care worker must wear clothes, but I am sure that would be an issue.

Bob S.

[nakednow...]

I would love to work this nude camp for children. I am a teacher and former day care provider that believes nudity and the human body is a beautiful thing! Let me know if this ever comes about!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Trailscout]

When I was 11 years old, I went to a coed church camp and although it was not nudist, there should be some common threads to any kind of summer camp:
Each child was assigned to a cabin with about 8 to 10 other children of the same sex. Each cabin group had a counselor (same sex) who closely supervised the boys or girls at the events and during their limited free time.

Sporting events were sex-segregated due to the greater strength of the boys, but we had coed times as well, in social events and worship times. I think we had a happy blend of segregated and coed times.

Our showers were "gang style" all in one big open room. The boys were all carefree and nude. We had not learned body shame at that age. Girls of course, had their own shower.

We were curious about what the girls looked like without clothes and some of the fellows managed to climb up on the roof of the girls shower and peek down the skylight. The couselors caught them and gave them hell for it. It was a dangerous stunt and no one likes a peeping Tom. Still, you can't blame the little fellows for being a wee bit curious.

Our showers were not supervised. If boys and girls were to share a shower, they would need to be supervised to prevent bullying and sexual play. Perhaps separate showers for each sex would be more practical.

I think a coed nudist summer camp for kids would have to operate much the same way as a coed textile summer camp.

[PFR]

I think that we've all got it backwards. Introducing kids to coed nudity won't work through camps, clubs and even non nudist places that have relaxed rules about things that would enable more exposure.

From the 30's Europe has flourished with public nudity, and I don't believe it is because they are more liberal towards sex. Rather, it is because nudity was in many ways a fact of life in the home as kids grew up. Nudity was a true grass roots thing.

On the other side of the ocean there will never be any kind of wide spread acceptance of nudity (apart from porn) unless nudity is accepted in the home. There is no way you will ever be able to make camps like this successful unless the kids who go there already have nudity in their lives from birth. After a certain age their feelings about body exposure are cemented and very hard to change, unless it is through unsociable things like morbid curiosity on the rooftop.

Just take a look at European lifestyles and see that their relatively lower standard of living over the past 7 decades has greatly contributed to their acceptance of public nudity. They do not have the luxury of privacy like we do.

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PFR:
I think that we've all got it backwards. Introducing kids to coed nudity won't work through camps, clubs and even non nudist places that have relaxed rules about things that would enable more exposure.

From the 30's Europe has flourished with public nudity, and I don't believe it is because they are more liberal towards sex. Rather, it is because nudity was in many ways a fact of life in the home as kids grew up. Nudity was a true grass roots thing. . . .

Just take a look at European lifestyles and see that their relatively lower standard of living over the past 7 decades has greatly contributed to their acceptance of public nudity. They do not have the luxury of privacy like we do.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: PFR ] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first part of PFR's comment is right on. Many of the kids that are old enough to go away for a week at camp are not going to be comfortable with mixed nudity
if it hasn't been part of their family life. A lot of boys today aren't even comfortable with same sex nudity, let alone the girls.

I don't agree with the second comment about European comfort with the body being related to lower standards of living. The European homes that I've been in have all been able to afford doors for their bathrooms and bedrooms. The Scandinavian countries all have high comfort levels with nudity, and I don't think many of the people would agree that their average standard of living is below ours.

Other cultural factors are at work to produce a saner, healthier attitude toward the human body. My view is that it traces back to the ancient Greeks and Romans, two cultures that considered the well-developed body to be the ultimate expression of beauty. Both of these cultures had huge influences throughout most of Europe, particularly when the Rennaisance rediscovered the beauty of the nude body.

One evidence is their continuing influence on public art, where one finds nude expression in places that would be entirely unexpected in the US. We were just in France, where we visited a cathedral that has a fountain built into one corner of the exterior wall. The fountain "waterworks" consists of several nude little boys peeing. In what church in the US would you find that? Or in what church in the US would there be a Sistine Chapel, with it's altar wall covered with nudes? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Trailscout]

I never meant to imply that a nudist summer camp would make a nudist out of a textile kid.

The process of helping a family make the transition from textile to nudist lifestyle is a daunting task, worthy of its' own discussion thread.

I have talked to several parents who were textile at home and nudist at resorts. They lost their children to the textile attitude, perhaps because they thought that going to a nudist resort once or twice in the summer would make nudists out of themselves and their children without the concurrent practice of household nudity!

I do believe that children of at-home nudists derive benefit from being with their peers at a nudist camp.

The alternative is for a child to think that his parents are the only wierd nudists in an otherwise normal textile world. How would they know any different if they aren't among other nudist families? That's another way parents lose their kids to the textile world.

I don't see a clear-cut advantage of having a summer nudist camp just for kids versus the traditional family nudist campground, or a popular nude beach, provided that there are enough children for him/her to play with.

Without regular de-programming at home and without regular visits to nude beaches, nudist campgrounds and resorts , textile values through TV and schoolmates, quickly overpower the influence of the nudist parent. When puberty begins, children need even more affirmation of their intrinsic worth and the essential goodness of their bodies.

I think AANR does have a good idea with their JANR "boot camp" to help affirm nudist values in children and young teens.

[PFR]

One thing I have noticed about many German homes is that they are very well built. So at least in the last 30 years they have a great standard of living. Their homes are of better quality, and afford just the same comfort as those in North America.

Did you see today's photo (upper right hand corner of www.clothesfree.com) (http://www.clothesfree.com))

It is somewhere in the U.S. of a nudist park. It definitely appears to be a nicer park, based upon the ones I've seen. One thing bad about parks over here is that they are often home built places with shacks and less than desireable facilities. The resorts I have been in in Europe are first class--partly because they have financial support from government.

If the parks over here were first class then people would be more inclined to visit them. But really though, the Greek/Roman infuence is not nearly as strong here as it is in France and Germany. Our main (not only) influence comes from England and partially France especially in the eastern part of Canada. From England we have mostly inherited the puritanical, and we know what that is to nudism.

[Trailscout]

PFR,

The idea we are discussing is the idea of using summer camps or family nudist camps to keep nudist children in the fold.

Somehow you think that Americans are not nudist because many of our resorts are not luxurious. That has nothing to do with the problem of instilling nudist values in the next generation.

Young families are often not able to afford the price of admission to the luxurious resorts you describe, even if the government paid for their construction.

Children's summer camps are often quaint and rustic. They reflect America's pioneer heritage and a desire to live simply and close to nature. Even many Germans, Finns and Swedes enjoy rustic simplicity!

Nudist resorts often have policies that exclude young single nudists from visiting and their prices tend to exclude young couples. So what do you see? Middle aged and older people in many places.

On the surface, it sounds nice that the government is picking up the tab for European nudist resort construction, but what is that doing to attract the next generation of young people?

It is the culture that tells young people it is good to be nude. When you are young and poor you go to the free nude beaches, you camp naked in the woods, and frolic naked in your home and private yard.

Children remain nudist by being nude as often as possible. Rustic summer camps are one very good way of helping make that happen.

[Bob S.]

Parents are their children's most important teachers and they learn more from them than anyone else. If the parents have a clothing-optional household where anyone who wants to can be naked or clothed, the children will have a healthier attitude towards the human body. And going to a nudist park will add to their experience and give them friends their age, hopefully, to play with sans clothes.

Parents who are rarely naked at home themselves are going to have children who are rarely naked at home as well. And going to a nudist park will only serve as a curiosity, especially if it is done only once or twice a year.

Now as for the price to attend, at the smaller parks, the price is usually reasonable, especially for a young couple with kids. Just today at the nudist camp that I went to, a couple was talking that an amusment park was nearby, but it's admission was about $40 per person. And this did not count parking or food. At this park, a couple with children would only have to spend $35 for admission. Not $35 per person, but for the whole family. And this is the most expensive day rate. So I feel that nudist parks, for the most part, are less expensive than other places that a family could go on vacation, especially amusement parks.

Now knowing that, it could be possible to create an overnight camp, maybe even away from the parents, where nudity was allowed. This camp would be ideal for those nudist families who both need to work and may send their child to a regular child care day camp, such as what the YMCA offers. Maybe make a weeklong camp in a rural area, not necessarily at a nudist park, where the campers would do normal camp things only with no dress code.

BTW, there is a YMCA overnight summer camp in Virginia on the Delmarva penninsula. It is in a very rural place and right on the Chesapeake Bay. Pristine area with such wopndeerful natural beauty. Too bad it is not nudist because it would be perfect for that use. I went there for a summer camp training for the YMCA a aouple fo years ago before it even opened.

Bob S.