Body ornamentation acceptance?

[Angel]

I really enjoyed reading the threads about shaving and erections - a couple of things my husband and I have discussed as concerns venturing into the social nudist scene.

My big question, though, is what kind of acceptance is there for ornamentation such as tattoos and piercings? I view it as a personal choice to decorate the body, but I've read a lot of posts and websites (by both nudists and clubs) that discourage body piercings or tattoos strongly.

Why?

Is this still something considered taboo?

Very rarely do I see pictures of tattooed nudists, and I've not yet seen a picture of someone identifying themself as a nudist with any visible piercings.

I have two rather noticeable tattoos and have considered getting my nipples pierced (I've been considering it for 10 years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Will these ornamentations interfere with going "social"?

Thanks for your time and patience with newbie questions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Angel]

I really enjoyed reading the threads about shaving and erections - a couple of things my husband and I have discussed as concerns venturing into the social nudist scene.

My big question, though, is what kind of acceptance is there for ornamentation such as tattoos and piercings? I view it as a personal choice to decorate the body, but I've read a lot of posts and websites (by both nudists and clubs) that discourage body piercings or tattoos strongly.

Why?

Is this still something considered taboo?

Very rarely do I see pictures of tattooed nudists, and I've not yet seen a picture of someone identifying themself as a nudist with any visible piercings.

I have two rather noticeable tattoos and have considered getting my nipples pierced (I've been considering it for 10 years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Will these ornamentations interfere with going "social"?

Thanks for your time and patience with newbie questions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

Angel, I hope you'll get a positive response or at least, not a negative one !
It seems within all minority groups ,in this case nudists, there are those who want to marginalise others. It is something that happens in all walks of life , but I firmly believe that nudists / naturists have a duty to be more accepting than most.
The first piercing I saw was in Cap'Dage years ago. I had already been there a few days and had gotton very quickly into the lifestyle of shopping, eating and being nude 24 / 7.
One morning a VERY bronzed couple were walking along the promanade, he wearing nothing but an expensive looking gold watch, she with diamond rings and gold necklaces, Dior shades and nothing else. It was my first visit to a nudist resort outside the U.K. and I was fascinated with this couple because frankly, they looked hilarious ,naked but determined to show their material wealth ! Something else caught my eye - she had a gold glint between her legs . I had never seen or even heard of genital piercing before -it was something very unusual then , certainly something people didn't talk about. It was an image that stayed with me a long time. In subsequent years I have seen many more piercings, mainly men it has to be said and have a number of friends with genital piercings and tattoos [one of them jingles as he walks ! ]. I have friends who wouldn't DREAM of going nude who have pierced nipples and belly buttons - indeed it is quite common in the U.K. these days. I am needle phobic and it is something I couldn't do myself, but have no problem with piercings or tattoos on others and fail to understand why it is a problem for others .
I wonder if it it is seen as "showing off " and drawing attention ? Or is it the slightly odd idea that naturism is natural [ try and convince me of that when its cold and wet here ! ] and that piercing or tattoos are somehow 'impure ' ? Or is it the idea that piercings and tattos are somehow sexual and therefore again, not pure ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
I really enjoyed reading the threads about shaving and erections - a couple of things my husband and I have discussed as concerns venturing into the social nudist scene.

My big question, though, is what kind of acceptance is there for ornamentation such as tattoos and piercings? I view it as a personal choice to decorate the body, but I've read a lot of posts and websites (by both nudists and clubs) that discourage body piercings or tattoos strongly.

Why?

Is this still something considered taboo?

Very rarely do I see pictures of tattooed nudists, and I've not yet seen a picture of someone identifying themself as a nudist with any visible piercings.

I have two rather noticeable tattoos and have considered getting my nipples pierced (I've been considering it for 10 years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Will these ornamentations interfere with going "social"?

Thanks for your time and patience with newbie questions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[greensunshine]

Dear Bertiepotato,

To answer you question regarding how the different clubs feel about either body peircings and or tattoos...best solution before visiting, is to call ahead and ask what their policy is. Personally a lot of my friends up here in the Pacific NW would never dream of sporting a tat, much less a body piercing other than in their earlobes...

Personally I find both to be out of the norm of what I would find tastefully done, except in culturally exceptable locations on my or their bodies...ie...my earlobes and other locations where they are not on public display for all to see or hear... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Sorry, but looking at some guy or gal with peircings that are visable to all via the lower portion of their torso while I or they are nude, is not what I consider to be attractive, nor are tattos that encompass one upper torso, that can be construded as strickly attention getters as you mentioned about the couple whose body jewelry definitely caught your attention /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Greensunshine /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Angel]

Greensunshine struck at the heart of what I consider to be a double standard with the following:

"Personally I find both to be out of the norm of what I would find tastefully done, except in culturally exceptable locations on my or their bodies...ie...my earlobes and other locations where they are not on public display for all to see or hear... Sorry, but looking at some guy or gal with peircings that are visable to all via the lower portion of their torso while I or they are nude, is not what I consider to be attractive, nor are tattos that encompass one upper torso, that can be construded as strickly attention getters as you mentioned about the couple whose body jewelry definitely caught your attention "

I hear so many proclaimed nudists and naturists say "it isn't about *attractive*" ... but obviously, at least in some cases, it *is*.

I do not personally find extremely hairy men attractive. Nor do I find extremely thin, bony women attractive. But SO WHAT? My attraction - or lack thereof - to their personal appearance in no way affects *who* they are - their personality, their character, their beliefs and preferences.

Is it not the celebration of who we truly are that matters?

Please don't take this as a flame - it's a frustration. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

Angel, I totally agree with you.
Its a double standard of -" body acceptance but only if it's something I approve of " !

/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Angel I am with you on this. Greensunshine's posts seem to be mainly concerned with shallow ideals as if finding a guy that is "cute" is what will make her life more complete. She must be real young. I know as I got older my tastes changed and I figured out there are more important things in life than a particular trendy look. Tats and piercings are becoming more and more the norm and as time goes by the clubs are easing up on those restrictions. Down the road people will wonder what all the hoopla was about.

I have one nipple pierced and I have to warn you that I was not prepared for how bad it was gonna hurt when I had it done. If I should lose it I won't do it again. However others have said it wasn't so bad so I guess it is different for everyone.

[gamblefish]

Amen Angel, I hear ya.

Who cares "who" finds "what" attractive. I thought the nudist philosophy was about acceptance no matter what one looks like. Guess not all nudists ascribe to this nudist philosophy.

Personally, I have one tattoo (so far) and my eyebrow is pierced, along with two piercings on one ear. I do not practice socially, but if this were to be an issue with a club, then screw 'em.
Who needs 'em. Bunch 'o hypocrites!!

[TXK NUDE]

Hmmm, body acceptance not all that accepting? Interesting! Truth be told, body acceptance is really not the issue...it's behavior acceptance that lies at the heart of the issue.

Questions arise to WHY someone would sport certain tattoos, and/or pierce certain parts of their body? Some do it because it's beautiful, others do it to be a part of pop culture, but others do it obviosly as an act of rebellion or as a means of gaining attention to certain parts of their body.

At TNA, as a means to avoid undue questions, we do discourage excessive tatts and peircing, since we do support a family environment at our gatherings. But that is the only reason. Otherwise, if a member has tattoos or piercings that are tasteful, and well done, then there is no problem. We accept every BODY, but we do not accept every BEHAVIOR!

[MikeyBear1964]

One of the greatest things about being a nudist is FREEDOM. I'm fat, hairy and not overly endowed. Some people look better than me. Some look worse. No one bothers me because of my looks in nudist environments. Can't say that is always true in the textile world.

That stated - Why would anyone judge those who are into tatoos and piercings? Every nudist expresses themselves to some degree - hair length, jewelry, shaving, etc. To say that you don't want to look at a stranger with excessive piercings is a form of bigotry.

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

Interesting txk nude because you seem to be assuming that tattoos and piercings go with certain " behaviour ".
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Several years ago a friend a nudist , then working in the rock world and a real live gentle giant had his nipple pierced. I went with him to lots of stores in London and the South East looking for nipple rings which proved, at the time difficult to find. The stores were all dark fronted and in some cases, sex stores.
I met some of the nicest, friendliest, warmest helpfull people I ever met. The fact that they were all covered in piercings and tattoos was a bit intimidating at first but my preconcieved idea was something I soon got over.

Now think of a non nudist in a nudist situation - we would all want them to believe we are normal people who just enjoy being naked when we can. But most people just freak out at the idea of social nudity !
So who are we to judge on a perceived " lifestyle" or what someone looks like and not who they are ?
Isn't that against the fundimentals of
Naturism ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
Hmmm, body acceptance not all that accepting? Interesting! Truth be told, body acceptance is really not the issue...it's behavior acceptance that lies at the heart of the issue.

Questions arise to WHY someone would sport certain tattoos, and/or pierce certain parts of their body? Some do it because it's beautiful, others do it to be a part of pop culture, but others do it obviosly as an act of rebellion or as a means of gaining attention to certain parts of their body.

At TNA, as a means to avoid undue questions, we do discourage excessive tatts and peircing, since we do support a family environment at our gatherings. But that is the only reason. Otherwise, if a member has tattoos or piercings that are tasteful, and well done, then there is no problem. We accept every BODY, but we do not accept every BEHAVIOR! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:

At TNA, as a means to avoid undue questions, we do discourage excessive tatts and peircing, since we do support a family environment at our gatherings. But that is the only reason. Otherwise, if a member has tattoos or piercings that are tasteful, and well done, then there is no problem. We accept every BODY, but we do not accept every BEHAVIOR! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What undue questions would that be? What does a family environment have to do with tattoos and piercings really? Do people who have tats make worse parents than those without? Who's idea of tasteful and well done do you use? Mine? Yours? The mailman's?? What does behavior have to do with tattoos and piercings?

[Angel]

cyndiann says:

"What does a family environment have to do with tattoos and piercings really? Do people who have tats make worse parents than those without? Who's idea of tasteful and well done do you use? Mine? Yours? The mailman's?? What does behavior have to do with tattoos and piercings?"

I'm a 36 yr old wife and mother and work as a sales clerk. I've had one traffic ticket in my life, and have a college degree. I'm about as "average" as one can get.

I got my first tattoo on my right breast when I was 25. My youngest child nursed at that breast, and everyone else has seen it from my older kids to my parents to friends from college and church and coworkers.

My older kids - both boys - responded with "wow, Mom, neat". A breast is not a sex organ to them, they saw my breasts frequently in the context of nursing their younger brothers. A breast is simply a mammary gland that makes it easy, healthy and convenient to feed an infant.

My youngest child is 9, and I've been contemplating nipple piercing since he stopped nursing. Why? Because I want to. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Because I think it looks neat, and would feel neat.

There was a suggestion that tattoos or piercings may draw "inappropriate" attention to "inappropriate" body areas. Ahem. Bodies are bodies, in my view, and I really want to meet the fat, hairy, less-than-well-endowed guy, just to hug him for being an openminded person. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess I've gotten an answer to my initial question, although I hope others will continue to toss in their two cents worth. IMNSHO, whether I choose to wear a wedding ring or a nipple ring, a towel or a tattoo, 30 pounds of hairspray or 30 pounds of extra flab, I should be accepted for who I am, not what I look like.

[Bob S.]

As you can see, Angel, views of tattoos and piercings are varied. So, depending on the tattoo or area of piercing, you must expect a certain amount of friction to the idea. And the tattoo, itself, can say a lot about who someone is if it is sporting a message.

The only truly (although not completely) socially acceptable place for a piercing is on the lobe or lower portion of the female ear. Women with multiple ear piercings or men with ear piercings are seen differently. When the rings move away from the ear, the acceptance lessens. But it seems that nose rings are slowly gaining acceptance as is lip and tongue rings, albeit at a much slower rate.

But nipple and genital rings will remain very controversial, not only in general society where, although they are never seen, are seen as sexual aids, but also in nudism venues, where they are viewed akin to bikinis/speedos. Piercing jewelry are there to add a decorative touch to the specific part of the area of the body. When the piercings are on the nipples or genitals, there is a similar view as general society that those places are the sexual areas and you are trying to highlight those places.

As you see, I think that piercings can cause the biggest problem. Tattoos only really cause a problem when they are large and/or contain controversial images on them.

Bob S.

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
As you see, I think that piercings can cause the biggest problem. Tattoos only really cause a problem when they are large and/or contain controversial images on them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Obviously people can do what they like with their own bodies but to me tattoos, because of their permanence, amount to little more than vandalism: graffiti of the body if you like. At least piercings can be removed (albeit with minor scarring) when the fashion changes but tattoos are there for life.

My hope for the many young people who have fallen victim to this most pernicious fashion statement is that the future will bring sufficient advances in tattoo removal techiques to enable them to reclaim their skin when they come to regret their foolishness.

Rik

It has already been done Rik. Tattoo removal is a common thing anymore.

Details (http://www.epione.com/treatment_detailed.cfm?Treatment_ID=35)

[RalphVa]

I don't see tattoes and jewelry on a nude body any different from seeing folks play clothed volleyball with jewelry on, which I thought strange and idiot-like but not offensive to me.

I'd say wearing jewelry is going against what Paul wrote about in II Tim. 2/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifthink it's) 9 when we wrote about women wearing "modest" apparel (in worship). His "modesty" that he was talking about was about not wearing jewelry, hair decorations and clothing that shows off your wealth, not about the length of the hem line or droop of the bossom line, etc.

Ralph

[Rik]

Cyndiann

This is good news although essentially tattoo removal is a medical procedure and the costs are high although I guess increased demand will help to force costs down.

Rik

[Naked Bob 2]

I think that where you are and what is the norm for the area you are in play a huge part in this. I live in Southern California and at the beaches I go to it is quite common to see tats and piercings. Now I also have been a member of a Naturist club nearby. They have a no piercings rule. I feel this is due to the owner being of an earlier generation and perhaps not understanding that it is quite common. He may even associate it, incorrectly, with a type of sexual behavior. I have known a few swingers and they seem to love to adorn themselves with all kinds of body jewlry. I am not implying that this is your case I am simply stating what I have seen.

Bottom line more conservative and older peaple may not approve but so what? If you want to do it just go for it. Most of us can truely accept you however you are, live and let live.

[gamblefish]

It is understandable that nudist clubs want to promote a family ,kid-friendly atmosphere. I totally agree with this, and the promotion of nudism to our culture is dependent on this.

Fact is, tattoos and piercings are becoming more and more culturally acceptable. I am a mail carrier, and I have both. And I don't live in laid-back California, I live in uptight Ohio!!

I find it humorous that someone said certain piercings are not culturally acceptable, so nudists clubs should prohibit these. Obviously, nudism is not culturally acceptable, so what the hell is up with that?

I also found it humorous that someone mentioned that some with piercings are "rebellious". Helllllllooooooooooo! Aren't we, as nudists, rebelling against a culture that demands we wear our clothes at all times? Aren't we? Huh?

[TXK NUDE]

As with any behavior, clothing, or otherwise, there are extremes. Some with tattoos draw demonic, sexually explicit, or otherwise inappropriate images on their bodies, or place those tattoos near or on their sexual organs with the intent of drawing attention to those areas. Piercings also can be placed or done in such a way as to be excessive or provacative. These kinds of tattoos or piercings are "inappropriate" in a family setting.

As to my comment about TNAs rule of limiting tattoos or piercings solely to prevent undue questions is that children are naturally curious, and if someone has a tattoo or piercing in certain areas, it may lead to staring or questions that may be uncomfortable to the person, the children's parents, or the host of the event (we are a non landed club). Otherwise, if the tattoo is not lewd, or does not draw attention to a sex organ (breasts are NOT sex organs), or if the piercing is discrete, or not provacative, then there is no problem. Again, as previously stated, it is not the body that is not acceptable, it is the behavior. If it is OBVIOUS that the piercing or tattoo is meant to be provacative, or disgusting, it is not allowed.

[Angel]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If it is OBVIOUS that the piercing or tattoo is meant to be provacative, or disgusting, it is not allowed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What does "not allowed" mean? Obviously, unless it is a new piercing, one can remove body jewelry and leave it at home. Tattoos aren't quite so easy to set aside for the day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So you're saying that if someone got a tattoo when they were 20, got religion at 30, became a millionaire at 40, and found nudism at 50, they wouldn't be allowed in your local club if you thought their 30 year old tattoo was inappropriate?

[TXK NUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
So you're saying that if someone got a tattoo when they were 20, got religion at 30, became a millionaire at 40, and found nudism at 50, they wouldn't be allowed in your local club if you thought their 30 year old tattoo was inappropriate? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Your scenario is extremely hypothetical indeed! IF it is an obviously old tattoo, and IF there is no obvious attempt to use said tattoo in a provacative, or lewd way, and IF the person doesn't mind answering the incessant questions from the kids...then they would not be denied membership. However, IF the old tattoo is obviously lacsivious, and the person does indeed want to draw attention to their genitals with said tattoo, and would try to get children to touch said tatoo in a sexual manner, then they would certainly be denied. No questions asked.

Every case is personal and individualy dealt with. Again, it's not so much the tattoo or the piercing that is in question, but rather the intended behavior behind such piercing or tattoo.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
As with any behavior, clothing, or otherwise, there are extremes. Some with tattoos draw demonic, sexually explicit, or otherwise inappropriate images on their bodies, or place those tattoos near or on their sexual organs with the intent of drawing attention to those areas. Piercings also can be placed or done in such a way as to be excessive or provacative. These kinds of tattoos or piercings are "inappropriate" in a family setting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why do you think so? I know people who have genital piercings and also have children and he and I don't see anything inappropriate about it. Doesn't nudism teach that no parts of the body are "dirty"? All parts are equal and appropriate. Just by being nude we draw attention to certain body parts just because they are off limits in other settings. Should we start covering genitals? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of nudism? If we are about body acceptance we should allow jewelry on any body part and not set limitations.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As to my comment about TNAs rule of limiting tattoos or piercings solely to prevent undue questions is that children are naturally curious, and if someone has a tattoo or piercing in certain areas, it may lead to staring or questions that may be uncomfortable to the person, the children's parents, or the host of the event (we are a non landed club). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well shouldn't such questions be answered? (If there are any... from what I have seen of similar situations the kids really don't care and will at most ask one question and be off on another tangent as kids do.) Would you similarly want to avoid questions about genitals in general?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Otherwise, if the tattoo is not lewd, or does not draw attention to a sex organ (breasts are NOT sex organs), or if the piercing is discrete, or not provacative, then there is no problem. Again, as previously stated, it is not the body that is not acceptable, it is the behavior. If it is OBVIOUS that the piercing or tattoo is meant to be provacative, or disgusting, it is not allowed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Provacative and disgusting is in the eyes of the beholder.... they are opinions and people will not all consider the same piercing/tattoo to be considered provacative or disgusting. You state that it is behavior that is not acceptable and I agree with that (although we probably disagree on what behaviors would be considered so) but we aren't talking about behaviors here but body adornment.

Should be ban shaving the genital areas because it allows better viewing of that area? I think that is already too late. I don't know of any clubs that prohibit that. I think we need to relax and stop digging up problems that don't exist. Reality is that the kids don't care and are not affected by body jewelry and tatts of any kind.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
Every case is personal and individualy dealt with. Again, it's not so much the tattoo or the piercing that is in question, but rather the intended behavior behind such piercing or tattoo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well this presents a problem because some people want to decide for others what their intent was when they got a body mod. I know some that feel that any type of modification around the genitals automatically means they are swingers or BDSMers or devil worshipers or whatever. It is really not up to you to decide why someone did what they did.

The only thing you presented that I saw that would be objectionable in your post was when someone was trying to get children to touch a tattoo near the genitals. This would be a problem with behavior and not the tattoo. I think this could also occur when people have no tattoo because they are pedophiles. Totally different story! This has nothing to do with tatts really.

[Frank R]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
IF it is an obviously old tattoo... However, IF the old tattoo is obviously lacsivious,

Perhaps I am just not up on current events but how exactly does one tell the age of a tattoo? Do they wear off after a certain amount of time, become faded or what? I have seen many people with many tattoo's and I at least could not even begin to guess which ones where new and which ones were "obviously old".

[Angel]

Hi Frank /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In my experience, it's quite often difficult to determine the age of a tattoo without asking. If it's in an area that's frequently exposed to the sun (i.e. forearm), it may fade a bit over time, especially if substandard inks were used. It may be covered with more recent scar tissue from a cut or burn. Otherwise, the inks tend to hold up quite well and vibrantly over time.

Someone brought up the subject of "trying to get children to touch [them]" - sure, kids who haven't seen tattoos might want to touch them, just to see if they'll rub off. How many kids do you know who haven't drawn on themselves? A kid with no exposure might think you just drew a pretty picture on yourself. They touch it, rub at it a bit, and say "oh wow".

Then again, in today's world, tattooing has become so mainstream that most kids have not only seen tattoos, they frequently have them! In middle school, my son and his friends went on a binge of scratching designs into their arms with thumbtacks and coloring over the scratches with Sharpie markers, trying to give themselves tattoos. Unsanitary and unhygienic as all get out, but there you have it. Tattoos aren't a mystery to most kids anymore.

IMNSHO, it's not common for people to get tattoos to "draw attention" to genitalia. Yes, some do. But for the most part, bikini line tattoos are placed where they are so that the person can keep their tattoos private even while in a bathing suit. OK, so this may not apply to nudists, but most of the people I've talked to about it are not nudists. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For a lot of folks, tattoos are intensely private, even spiritual things. It's an adornment you choose to put on your body for a variety of reasons, but not necessarily one you want to share with the world. Often, the only people who see it are yourself and your lover/spouse.

Others view the body as a canvas, and get tattoos anywhere and everywhere. Someone covered with tattoos obviously isn't trying to draw attention to something specific (like genitalia), so I'm not even addressing that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In my case, no one that's part of my day-to-day life except my husband and children even knows that I have tattoos. Nude, sure, it would be obvious to anyone. And yes, people would look at my breasts - not out of any sense of lust, but to see what the tattoos are! Believe me, brightly colored flowers are much more noticeable than nipples. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In short, in my experience, tattoos tend to more or less negate the body part involved - people look at the design, not it's location.

My 2 cents, YMMV!

[wannabenaked2001]

Many things have been mentioned here as to what is acceptable body ornimentation in a nudist environment. As for me, I am not easily offended, and feel "Hey, it's your body!". I do not have any peircings or tattoos, and while I am very courious about them, I don't think I would ever have either.

I think we may want to think about this from another point of view though. As nudists, I feel we have an obligation to promote nudism in as positive a way as possible. Our lifestyle is probably less tolerated than those of same sex relationships. I am getting beyond what I know to be facts, but I think the Gay/Lesbian movement has worked very hard to get to where they are now, and we are far behind them. We may want to curtail some of what the "main-stream" people would find sexual or objectionable, in order to help our movement become more tolerated, and eventually accepted. As nudism becomes more accepted, we could then "relax" about such issues as genetal peircings, tattoos, shaving and erections. Again, none of these things bother me, but maybe it's time we become more focused on specific goals.

Just my two cents.

[hairless]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
I really enjoyed reading the threads about shaving and erections - a couple of things my husband and I have discussed as concerns venturing into the social nudist scene.

My big question, though, is what kind of acceptance is there for ornamentation such as tattoos and piercings? I view it as a personal choice to decorate the body, but I've read a lot of posts and websites (by both nudists and clubs) that discourage body piercings or tattoos strongly.

Why?

Is this still something considered taboo?

Very rarely do I see pictures of tattooed nudists, and I've not yet seen a picture of someone identifying themself as a nudist with any visible piercings.

I have two rather noticeable tattoos and have considered getting my nipples pierced (I've been considering it for 10 years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Will these ornamentations interfere with going "social"?

Thanks for your time and patience with newbie questions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[hairless]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
Hi Frank /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In my experience, it's quite often difficult to determine the age of a tattoo without asking. If it's in an area that's frequently exposed to the sun (i.e. forearm), it may fade a bit over time, especially if substandard inks were used. It may be covered with more recent scar tissue from a cut or burn. Otherwise, the inks tend to hold up quite well and vibrantly over time.

Someone brought up the subject of "trying to get children to touch [them]" - sure, kids who haven't seen tattoos might want to touch them, just to see if they'll rub off. How many kids do you know who haven't drawn on themselves? A kid with no exposure might think you just drew a pretty picture on yourself. They touch it, rub at it a bit, and say "oh wow".

Then again, in today's world, tattooing has become so mainstream that most kids have not only seen tattoos, they frequently have them! In middle school, my son and his friends went on a binge of scratching designs into their arms with thumbtacks and coloring over the scratches with Sharpie markers, trying to give themselves tattoos. Unsanitary and unhygienic as all get out, but there you have it. Tattoos aren't a mystery to most kids anymore.

IMNSHO, it's not common for people to get tattoos to "draw attention" to genitalia. Yes, some do. But for the most part, bikini line tattoos are placed where they are so that the person can keep their tattoos private even while in a bathing suit. OK, so this may not apply to nudists, but most of the people I've talked to about it are not nudists. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For a lot of folks, tattoos are intensely private, even spiritual things. It's an adornment you choose to put on your body for a variety of reasons, but not necessarily one you want to share with the world. Often, the only people who see it are yourself and your lover/spouse.

Others view the body as a canvas, and get tattoos anywhere and everywhere. Someone covered with tattoos obviously isn't trying to draw attention to something specific (like genitalia), so I'm not even addressing that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In my case, no one that's part of my day-to-day life except my husband and children even knows that I have tattoos. Nude, sure, it would be obvious to anyone. And yes, people would look at my breasts - not out of any sense of lust, but to see what the tattoos are! Believe me, brightly colored flowers are much more noticeable than nipples. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In short, in my experience, tattoos tend to more or less negate the body part involved - people look at the design, not it's location.

My 2 cents, YMMV! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Angel, I am a nudist(8th)year and I have several piercings and practice total body hair removal.There are several people at our club that are shaved, some completely, and a lot of pierced ones. Our club tried to ban body piercings but lost out on a membership vote. Good luck with whatever decision about getting pierced.
E-mail me at: nudist@cybersol.com

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

Angel , you sure stirred a hornets nest !
Are you sure you're not a bit of a devil ? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm remembering why I stopped being a social nudist now. Just because someone takes there clothes off in a public place I assumed it made them a more liberal, liberated and enlightened individual. But the hyporcacy level reached recently on INA recently is taking my breath away ! While there are people like yourself and the positive posters on the forum there is hope for the world. But I fear for us all because the meanies and self appointed guardians of the world.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[or something]

[NotBob13]

I can't beleive this is even an issue. I'm slowly working my way into social nudism, and never gave a thought to my tat or my nipple piercing.

I'm tattooed for deeply spiritual reasons, and I assumed it would be checked out and then ignored, like it always has been when I show it to people. I entend to get three more when I find a good artist. My first tat is not so well done, and the next three are even more important to me, so I'm holding off till I find a better artist.

My nipple piercing was done simply because it feels great when people pull on it. I intend to have my genitals pierced sometime soon, for extra stimulation purposes. This doesn't mean I go around asking random people to lick my piercing.

I also wear a watch and a wedding band. My watch is functional more than decorative. My wedding band never comes off.

Now if you've read this far in this post, you're probably thinking "is there a point coming up?" Here it is.

I decorate my body in various ways, and assumed it would be accepted by nudists just like my beard, my backhair, and my chubby tummy. This should be a non-issue.

It may seem silly to you to decorate the body, that's fine, consider me silly. I consider it silly to work-out to the point you are muscle bound, but I don't chastise people for it. To each his own. I don't like shaving, in general, but again It's not my body, do what you like.
And as to the thought that tats or piercing may be sexual in nature, so? Who Cares? My penis is sexual in nature(it only does two things, one of which is sex)and it hangs out when I'm nude. If you want to stare, that's fine by me. If you want to hit on me, let's go somewhere private.
By all means, throw out the pedophiles who are trying to molest children, but Have you actualy witnessed someone picking up a child via a piercing or tatoo? This just seems like an odd way to lure children in, to me. Wouldn't Ice Cream work better?
Just my two cents worth....NotBob

[Frank R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bertiepotato:

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[or something][/QB] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The saying actually is:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

I do think nudist as a whole are more open minded but do not let a disagreement with others interfere with you enjoyment of nudism or using these boards. Think how boring the world would be if everything thought exactly the same way!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bertiepotato:
Angel , you sure stirred a hornets nest !
Are you sure you're not a bit of a devil ? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm remembering why I stopped being a social nudist now. Just because someone takes there clothes off in a public place I assumed it made them a more liberal, liberated and enlightened individual. But the hyporcacy level reached recently on INA recently is taking my breath away ! While there are people like yourself and the positive posters on the forum there is hope for the world. But I fear for us all because the meanies and self appointed guardians of the world.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[or something] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just don't stop posting Bertie.... I'd rather see the more enlightened posts myself.

[Bartamus]

Bertiepotato: What exactly do you mean by the
the "hypocracy level reached by INA"?

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank R:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bertiepotato:

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

[or something] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The saying actually is:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Thanks Frank.
oIn analytical terms of course 'cannot' means 'will not' !

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bartamus:
Bertiepotato: What exactly do you mean by the
the "hypocracy level reached by INA"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bartamus: What I actually wrote was 'reached on INA '.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

[bertirolioliolo potatolioliololiolo]

Of course, I also wrote "hyporcacy " too........

[Angel]

((((stirring and stirring and stirring away, ducking hornets ...))))

I was really excited when I found this forum, in large part because I was hoping to get an answer to this question.

I believe I have gotten an answer. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The answer is "Nudists are people, too".

Some are openminded, some are smallminded, some are hotheaded, some are evenheaded, some are liberal, some are conservative, some are searching for acceptance, some are worried about appearance ... in short, a slice of life.

Was it Groucho Marx who said he wouldn't join any club that'd have him as a member?

There are I think 4 clubs within a couple hours drive. I think I'll be doing some serious in-depth research on them and their policies before pursuing socialization too quickly. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

((((back to stirring hornets ...))))

[brainyguy9999]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

>>I believe I have gotten an answer. The answer is "Nudists are people, too"."

>>"Some are openminded, some are smallminded, some are hotheaded, some are evenheaded, some are liberal, some are conservative, some are searching for acceptance, some are worried about appearance ... in short, a slice of life."

You also said: "I think I'll be doing some serious in-depth research on them and their policies before pursuing socialization too quickly. "

Don't wait too long to go, though. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have found a GREAT resort in Tennessee. I have gone to Timberline for about 4 years now and I have loved it every time.

Have a Happy New Year!!

bg

[Nuudnlovinit]

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to add a comment or two on my views toward the body piercing/tattoos. To me neither really are very visually appealing. I understand also that the people who are tattooed didn't do that to offend me, that is what they like on their bodies, and I can accept that.

[jeslrs]

I seem to be a broken record, just repeating myself... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A person should be able to do to his/her body what that person wants to do, without judgement from others. If the adornment offends you, then don't look. I, frankly, do not condone some of the things I have seen, but then, is it my business. I saw a young woman with a small heart, tattooed near her crotch. At first glance I thought... silly. I looked again, this time for the artistic value... it was nice. I saw a man walking the beach sporting a "cockring". His penus was sqished through his ring and the business end looked grotesque. The second part if the ring was wrapped around his testicles to the point of strangulation. The way the man strutted, I am sure he thought his ring was just beautiful. Who am I to judge. I just looked away. Some of the things one does to one's body, for improvement, really looks silly, but other things... well they are ok. I talked to my grandson with his pant crotch down to his knees and his purple, spiked hair... I told him he looked rediculous. His opinion, the one that counted, was... he looked cool. He liked the style. By my definition, he won. He was right.

It is their personal choice that governs. It is my choice to approve or not and to keep that choice to myself. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[nudist_in_Tn]

I have tattooes and if you don't like it don't look at them, and if you are rude enough to make a negative comment then I hope you don't get your feelings hurt easily because you probally won't like my reply to you.

[Rik]

We make judgements all the time.

Originally posted by jeslrs:
"I saw a young woman with a small heart, tattooed near her crotch. At first glance I thought... silly." [Judgement]

"I looked again, this time for the artistic value... it was nice" [Judgement]

"I saw a man walking the beach sporting a "cockring". His penus was sqished through his ring and the business end looked grotesque." [Judgement]

"The way the man strutted, I am sure he thought his ring was just beautiful." [Judgement]

"Some of the things one does to one's body, for improvement, really looks silly" [Judgement]

"but other things... well they are ok." [Judgement]

"I talked to my grandson with his pant crotch down to his knees and his purple, spiked hair... I told him he looked rediculous" [Judgement]

"It is their personal choice that governs. It is my choice to approve or not and to keep that choice to myself."

But why keep judgements to yourself? That seems rather dishonest to me.

Rik

[GAR]

Why can't we just get to know each other and accept what we find inside? What is more important? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[theoldman]

I'm glad to read the views on tatoos, pierceing and genital shaving. In case you didn't see the other posts I've put in, I'm 70+ and up until about a year ago didn't think too highly of the aforementioned practices. I don't know why, but think I was prejudiced that people with these things were just not decent people. My mind is changed now & I accept them (with the exception of lewd tatoos). The reason being that I feel my children and grandchildren are decent people and they have gotten into that culture to quite an extent. My daughter has a couple of tatoos, one on her breast & one on her rear. She also has her navel pierced and is thinking of having both nipples pierced. I'm getting used to itand find them rather attractive. She has also adopted the "smoothy" thing and keeps her pubic hair totally shaved.

My son has an ear ring, but so do a lot of men these days. Now my 13 year old grandson has also gotten an ear ring and wants to get his nipple(s) pierced. So far my son has forbidden that & i concur. When he gets older and is more capable of making that kind of decision his father will let him. Meanwhile he says he's proud to be growing pubic hair, has no embarrassment about getting erections, and when he is talking to you and gets one he just ignores it. I wasn't like that at his age until I had to accept it (details in another post) but I really think he's better adjusted to life than I was at that age.

So, I'd say if that's what you want to do, then go for it. We live in a different world today. I hope it doesn't happen, but I fully expect my son & daughter and daughter in law to come in someday with genital pierceings. I guess if they do, I'll just take it in stride.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by theoldman:
I'm glad to read the views on tatoos, pierceing and genital shaving. In case you didn't see the other posts I've put in, I'm 70+ and up until about a year ago didn't think too highly of the aforementioned practices. I don't know why, but think I was prejudiced that people with these things were just not decent people. My mind is changed now & I accept them (with the exception of lewd tatoos). The reason being that I feel my children and grandchildren are decent people and they have gotten into that culture to quite an extent. My daughter has a couple of tatoos, one on her breast & one on her rear. She also has her navel pierced and is thinking of having both nipples pierced. I'm getting used to itand find them rather attractive. She has also adopted the "smoothy" thing and keeps her pubic hair totally shaved.

My son has an ear ring, but so do a lot of men these days. Now my 13 year old grandson has also gotten an ear ring and wants to get his nipple(s) pierced. So far my son has forbidden that & i concur. When he gets older and is more capable of making that kind of decision his father will let him. Meanwhile he says he's proud to be growing pubic hair, has no embarrassment about getting erections, and when he is talking to you and gets one he just ignores it. I wasn't like that at his age until I had to accept it (details in another post) but I really think he's better adjusted to life than I was at that age.

So, I'd say if that's what you want to do, then go for it. We live in a different world today. I hope it doesn't happen, but I fully expect my son & daughter and daughter in law to come in someday with genital pierceings. I guess if they do, I'll just take it in stride. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm glad to see people open their minds to new things. From what I am reading you are one of three generations of nudists? Wow! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If it is OBVIOUS that the piercing or tattoo is meant to be provacative, or disgusting, it is not allowed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What does "not allowed" mean? Obviously, unless it is a new piercing, one can remove body jewelry and leave it at home. Tattoos aren't quite so easy to set aside for the day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The type of jewelry I have in my nipple doesn't come out all that easy. It takes pliers to get it out and I've not tried to do it alone. I'm also afraid that if I take it out the hole will close on me. There is one resort in the area that doesn't allow nipple piercings so I just quit going there.

[Angel]

cyndiann says <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There is one resort in the area that doesn't allow nipple piercings so I just quit going there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Their loss! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If piercings aren't allowed, I wonder if the clubs will accept the new "non-piercing" body jewelry? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Wouldn't that make it no different than a waist chain or a necklace?

[Kibble]

The subject of body decoration is an interesting one, Angel. Whether as in removing hair, body jewelry, or tattoos. I haven't seen any posts that suggest a knowledge of the history of these things. All go back quite far in different times and cultures.

I have both a tattoo and genital piercings. Does this make me a social pariah? I don't advertise their existence, but will talk about them if the subject is broached. I do have my own reasons for these decorations, and will certainly answer questions about them if asked. Besides, it's my bod. I'll enjoy it if I want.

I really don't find decorating a body very much different from receiving cosmetic surgery or any of various implants. (Knee joints, glass eyes, penile and breast implants not withstanding.) Cosmetic use might be another subject as no one has seen fit to comment on them.

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
I really enjoyed reading the threads about shaving and erections - a couple of things my husband and I have discussed as concerns venturing into the social nudist scene.

My big question, though, is what kind of acceptance is there for ornamentation such as tattoos and piercings? I view it as a personal choice to decorate the body, but I've read a lot of posts and websites (by both nudists and clubs) that discourage body piercings or tattoos strongly.

Why?

Is this still something considered taboo?

Very rarely do I see pictures of tattooed nudists, and I've not yet seen a picture of someone identifying themself as a nudist with any visible piercings.

I have two rather noticeable tattoos and have considered getting my nipples pierced (I've been considering it for 10 years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Will these ornamentations interfere with going "social"?

Thanks for your time and patience with newbie questions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no to both I spent 4 years in the navy 3 years overseas, I didn't defame my body with tatooes why would anyone want to put somthing on there body that would leave a permanant scare, you see all sorts of adds to prevent scares but someone would scare there body for life with a picture that next month they may regret, someone they didn't know or whatever, just cross it out thats cool., yah just cross it out, it's still there stupid. Peircing a little differant, it can heal, but why would anyone want a stud in there tunge or nose or eye brow, I guess you had to be there, now me as a person putting these things in it might be fun doing a nipple or an other private part these perverts love there job, they get payed for sex and can't be jailed. Scum of the earth. Just my opinion, what do you think???

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by greensunshine:
Dear Bertiepotato,

To answer you question regarding how the different clubs feel about either body peircings and or tattoos...best solution before visiting, is to call ahead and ask what their policy is. Personally a lot of my friends up here in the Pacific NW would never dream of sporting a tat, much less a body piercing other than in their earlobes...

Personally I find both to be out of the norm of what I would find tastefully done, except in culturally exceptable locations on my or their bodies...ie...my earlobes and other locations where they are not on public display for all to see or hear... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Sorry, but looking at some guy or gal with peircings that are visable to all via the lower portion of their torso while I or they are nude, is not what I consider to be attractive, nor are tattos that encompass one upper torso, that can be construded as strickly attention getters as you mentioned about the couple whose body jewelry definitely caught your attention /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Greensunshine /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>anyone who would deliberately scare there body would probably do anything to destroy themselves

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
Greensunshine struck at the heart of what I consider to be a double standard with the following:

"Personally I find both to be out of the norm of what I would find tastefully done, except in culturally exceptable locations on my or their bodies...ie...my earlobes and other locations where they are not on public display for all to see or hear... Sorry, but looking at some guy or gal with peircings that are visable to all via the lower portion of their torso while I or they are nude, is not what I consider to be attractive, nor are tattos that encompass one upper torso, that can be construded as strickly attention getters as you mentioned about the couple whose body jewelry definitely caught your attention "

I hear so many proclaimed nudists and naturists say "it isn't about *attractive*" ... but obviously, at least in some cases, it *is*.

I do not personally find extremely hairy men attractive. Nor do I find extremely thin, bony women attractive. But SO WHAT? My attraction - or lack thereof - to their personal appearance in no way affects *who* they are - their personality, their character, their beliefs and preferences.

Is it not the celebration of who we truly are that matters?

Please don't take this as a flame - it's a frustration. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>hear hear Lady, you are absolutely right, be naked be free

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyndiann:
Angel I am with you on this. Greensunshine's posts seem to be mainly concerned with shallow ideals as if finding a guy that is "cute" is what will make her life more complete. She must be real young. I know as I got older my tastes changed and I figured out there are more important things in life than a particular trendy look. Tats and piercings are becoming more and more the norm and as time goes by the clubs are easing up on those restrictions. Down the road people will wonder what all the hoopla was about.

I have one nipple pierced and I have to warn you that I was not prepared for how bad it was gonna hurt when I had it done. If I should lose it I won't do it again. However others have said it wasn't so bad so I guess it is different for everyone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>cyndianne, you've been in this neiborhood for a long time how could you secome to this body degradation, you discust me

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gamblefish:
Amen Angel, I hear ya.

Who cares "who" finds "what" attractive. I thought the nudist philosophy was about acceptance no matter what one looks like. Guess not all nudists ascribe to this nudist philosophy.

Personally, I have one tattoo (so far) and my eyebrow is pierced, along with two piercings on one ear. I do not practice socially, but if this were to be an issue with a club, then screw 'em.
Who needs 'em. Bunch 'o hypocrites!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>you are totaly wrong God gave us these bodies to protect and take care of You must worry because that tatoo goes to your grave it's one of the few things you take with you if you believe your body if eternal, you must beleive that or you wouldn't paint your body, what we do here is dust in the wind we leave it here when we leave, why would you want to go through life with that decal on your body I guess GOD when you get to heaven will at you say, I didn't give that to you why are bringing it with you now??? Why would anyone permanently paint there body????

[RIVERRAT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TXK NUDE:
Hmmm, body acceptance not all that accepting? Interesting! Truth be told, body acceptance is really not the issue...it's behavior acceptance that lies at the heart of the issue.

Questions arise to WHY someone would sport certain tattoos, and/or pierce certain parts of their body? Some do it because it's beautiful, others do it to be a part of pop culture, but others do it obviosly as an act of rebellion or as a means of gaining attention to certain parts of their body.

At TNA, as a means to avoid undue questions, we do discourage excessive tatts and peircing, since we do support a family environment at our gatherings. But that is the only reason. Otherwise, if a member has tattoos or piercings that are tasteful, and well done, then there is no problem. We accept every BODY, but we do not accept every BEHAVIOR! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>there is nothing tasteful about sexual body tatoes or piercings, for my way of thinking there is nothing tasteful about any body scaring or any misuse of any body part for art or whatever, people who expolit there bodies in this maner belong in a cult not a family orianted nudist attmoesphere, now family should be subjected to the exploitation of body parts with jewerlry or art, this is totally unacceptibel and should be banned,

[Bob S.]

It is clear that some people here believe that any kind of permanent body ornament is defacing the body while others believe that it is adorning it. There will never be any agreement on between those two schools of thought.

However, it is very dangerous to make all-encompassing statements such as Riverrat's
"anyone who would deliberately scare there body would probably do anything to destroy themselves "

My sister has two tattoos, on each of her ankles. One is a soccer ball (she played from 5 years old through college) and the other is the New York Yankees logo. She is now a Marine and do not believe she would "do anything to destroy" herself.

As for your religious statements, some people do not believe in an afterlife and therefore, your argument cannot apply to them. And it is very dangerous to suggest that you are speaking for what G*d believes. You can state that those are your religious views, but not the views of everyone. And according to most religions, the body does not go with you into the afterlife so what you do with that body in terms of ornaments, is irrelevent in terms of how thier god sees them.

"there is nothing tasteful about sexual body tatoes or piercings,"

Now that I agree with you about. Tattoos that are meant to be seen should not have any kind of negative message. If it does, you should expect to have any kind of negative response that others show you, including being barred from nudist clubs and groups.

Bob S.

[nudeM]

As the times change, I have grown accustomed to viewing tatoos and body piercings acceptable, as long as they are not overly done. Simple tatoos are no problem what-so-ever, but when it comes down to excessive i.e., gang logos all over their bodies, then I don't believe it would be proper to display in a nudist environment. And body piercings of the nose, ears, tongues and even nipples and belly buttons shouldn't be frowned upon. But when multiple ear, lips, nose and eye brows, as well as penis' begin to show up, then I don't think it would be appropiate to view at a nudist outing. Sure. they are making a statement, but those statements should be kept to themselves and not brought upon everyone else, especially in a nudist atmosphere.

Just my point of view.

[Frank R]

Sorry but I fail to see what all the fuss is about. If someone wants a tatoo, etc how does that affect me in the least? As long as they are not trying to force me to get one,(and no one ever has) I could not care any less. I have seen lots of people with tatoo's etc at various nudist functions. Yet the only one I can say with certainty that I remember was an attractive young female who had very bright purple fingernail polish on. I remember the fingernail polish even if I can't remember anything else. How about a simple live and let live attitude?

[barelybob]

How do we ascertain a person's intent in regard to tattoos or piercing? I personally do not have either and have seen some that I feel are totally unattractive. We all have our own ideas of beauty. So who am I to judge another's intent? As for club rules, these are private venues, and should be allowed to determine what they will or will not accept. If you don't agree with the rules, go elsewhere. I am single and am looked suspiciously by many. I will not frequent establishments which make me feel unwelcome. We all have the right to associate with those we feel comfortable with. Just because I don't agree with someones tastes, doesn't mean I won't accept them on a personal level.

Riverrat said"cyndianne, you've been in this neiborhood for a long time how could you secome to this body degradation, you discust me "

Degradation is what you are doing to this board by posting trash like that. It disgusts me that the moderators allow posts like yours to remain here when they don't contribute to the content of the thread and promote hate and ignorance.

cyndiann,
I have to agree with you on that. Everything Riverrat says is so negative. His attack on a person because of their belief in tattoos or piercings is uncalled for, rude and hateful.

I wonder if we don't have a certain person back who was very mean and hateful in what he said to everyone? Maybe he's returned with a different name--again. Whoever Riverrat is, he needs to take his hate somewhere else.

I don't have any tattoos or piercings, partly out of my dislike for pain, and partly because I don't see any need for it--for me. However, it's a personal matter of choice, and we all have that right. I've seen some very attractive tattoos, though I do think some people go overboard with them. The human body is a beautiful thing as it is. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
I wonder if we don't have a certain person back who was very mean and hateful in what he said to everyone? Maybe he's returned with a different name--again. Whoever Riverrat is, he needs to take his hate somewhere else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jon-Marc, I presume you're thinking of our old friend Mountainman (AKA Pogo, Frog Beachlovers) but from what I remember he claimed he had tattooes and was very proud of them so I guess Riverrat is, well ..Riverrat.

Rik

[GAR]

Why can't we just accept people for what's inside. Most people are nice but we need to talk to them so we are able to see this. Nudism is not about what we look like on the outside but what we are on the inside or am I wrong? I think that I am on target with this!I hope so. /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Gar,

Naturism/nudism is SUPPOSED to be about who we are on the inside, but that goes against human nature, and naturist/nudists are human. People piously say, "I accept all people." What they really mean is, "I accept all people who are like me."

Textiles judge you by the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the home you live in, the length of your hair--the list goes on. Naturists judge you by your tattoos, piercings, and marital status--especially the last one. Your behavior only enters into it once they get past all their prejudices, and we all, including myself, have those despite what we may say and the knowledge that it's wrong to be that way. But then again, it's human nature to be that way. Some of us try--and fail--to be the kind of person we know we should be but often fail. I have a supervisor who is EXTREMELY arrogant and not well liked because of it. We are attracted to certain people and repulsed by others. Being a shy, introverted person, I'm attracted to extroverted, outgoing people who, unfortunately, aren't interested in me. Human nature plays a BIG part in how we react to others. Our likes, dislikes, prejudices, opinions, religious beliefs or lack thereof, the kind of childhood we had, and all of life's experiences combine to make us who and what we are, and they determine how we treat others and what we think of ourselves. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[GAR]

Jon-Marc You are right but we have to keep on trying. Hopefuly we are able to retrain ourselves a little bit at a time to overcome these things. But some times we fail so we keep trying. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Bob S.]

barelybob said, "How do we ascertain a person's intent in regard to tattoos or piercing?"

GAR said, "Why can't we just accept people for what's inside."

I decided to put those two quotes first as what I am about to say will answer both questions.

When a person gets a tattoo or piercing, they are communicating a message to others around. We have become accustomed to women's earrings and to a lesser degree, male earrings. When piercings are in other unusual places, there is a certain message that is being sent, and received, and they can be two different messages. I remember a coworker (daycare) of mine who had a tongue ring. A few of the parents complained about her ring, but since it was just a part of her and her behaviour was not similar to it, she was allowed to keep it in.

Genital piercing are different as the general concensus of society is that the genital region is a sexual region, and this attitude is also prevalent in nudist parks. Penis or clitoris rings are very controversial in that people beleive that they bring attention to the area, meaning that the wearers are focusing on that part of their body.

Tattoos are usually more straightforward in their messages that people receive from them. A small tattoo of a heart on a man's upper arm is not likely to cause as much distraction as the tattoo of a naked woman, a detailed bloodied skull, or negative words.

So the intent is usually obvious in what message they intend to convey, especially with tattoos, but they must also realize that people are going to look at that before they find out who's on the inside. After all, what you say and all messages that you give out can speak volumes of the kind of person you are.

Bob S.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
barelybob said, "How do we ascertain a person's intent in regard to tattoos or piercing?"

GAR said, "Why can't we just accept people for what's inside."

I decided to put those two quotes first as what I am about to say will answer both questions.

When a person gets a tattoo or piercing, they are communicating a message to others around. We have become accustomed to women's earrings and to a lesser degree, male earrings. When piercings are in other unusual places, there is a certain message that is being sent, and received, and they can be two different messages. I remember a coworker (daycare) of mine who had a tongue ring. A few of the parents complained about her ring, but since it was just a part of her and her behaviour was not similar to it, she was allowed to keep it in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only two meanings? I think the reason someone gets a piercing is as individual as the person that has it done.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Genital piercing are different as the general concensus of society is that the genital region is a sexual region, and this attitude is also prevalent in nudist parks. Penis or clitoris rings are very controversial in that people beleive that they bring attention to the area, meaning that the wearers are focusing on that part of their body. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Aren't nudists supposed to be beyond that? We teach that there is nothing wrong with showing any body part. Jewelry doesn't focus that area any more than shaving does yet one is usually allowed and the other isn't. Time to dump the old prejudice feelings and get on with the new open minded ones. This is 2003 after all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Tattoos are usually more straightforward in their messages that people receive from them. A small tattoo of a heart on a man's upper arm is not likely to cause as much distraction as the tattoo of a naked woman, a detailed bloodied skull, or negative words.

So the intent is usually obvious in what message they intend to convey, especially with tattoos, but they must also realize that people are going to look at that before they find out who's on the inside. After all, what you say and all messages that you give out can speak volumes of the kind of person you are.

Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe it is time we look beyond physical appearance and get to know the people inside those bodies. Nudism shouts about body acceptance at the same time too many conservatives are dreaming up reasons to exclude people.

[Bob S.]

"Only two meanings? I think the reason someone gets a piercing is as individual as the person
that has it done."

And I agree with that cyndiann. You misunderstood me. I was saying that whenever someone has any kind of unusual piercing, tattoo, or even wearing something unusual, the message that the person intends to send out may be different than the message that another person receives, hence two meanings.

"Aren't nudists supposed to be beyond that?"

Yes.

"We teach that there is nothing wrong with showing any body part. Jewelry doesn't focus that area any more than shaving does yet one is usually allowed and the other isn't. Time to dump the old prejudice feelings and get on with the new open minded ones. This is 2003 after all...Maybe it is time we look beyond physical appearance and get to know the people inside
those bodies."

Yes, if only we could eliminate prejudice and concentrate on who the person is on the inside. And with yesterday having been Martin Luther King Jr. Day, that message is more appropriate than ever.

"Nudism shouts about body acceptance at the same time too many conservatives are dreaming up reasons to exclude people."

But the problem is that there are people who are so blinded by their own self-righteousness that they cannot accept the bodies of others who dare to "defile" it with piercings or tattoos.

Bob S.

[Angel]

A word on the "intent" of tattoos:

In 1992, I discovered a lump in my left breast. Any woman reading this (and some men!) will realize how terrifying that was.

In the mental and emotional chaos of trying to deal with this, I got two tattoos. On my right breast is a ring of roses, with carnivores mixed among them. Danger hiding in beauty. On my left breast was a cobra fully wrapped around an orchid. Danger overwhelming beauty.

After a series of medical testing up to and including biopsy, it was eventually determined that I have Fibrocystic Breast Disorder - NOT cancer! I had the tattoo on my left breast covered with daylilies. Beauty triumphs over danger.

When you see me naked, yes, my tattooed breasts are one of the first things to draw the eye. (And yes, those are the only tattoos I have.)

Sexual intent? Not always.

If you want to know someone's "intent" behind their tattoos, try *asking*. You might be surprised by what you hear.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Angel:
A word on the "intent" of tattoos:

In 1992, I discovered a lump in my left breast. Any woman reading this (and some men!) will realize how terrifying that was.

In the mental and emotional chaos of trying to deal with this, I got two tattoos. On my right breast is a ring of roses, with carnivores mixed among them. Danger hiding in beauty. On my left breast was a cobra fully wrapped around an orchid. Danger overwhelming beauty.

After a series of medical testing up to and including biopsy, it was eventually determined that I have Fibrocystic Breast Disorder - NOT cancer! I had the tattoo on my left breast covered with daylilies. Beauty triumphs over danger.

When you see me naked, yes, my tattooed breasts are one of the first things to draw the eye. (And yes, those are the only tattoos I have.)

Sexual intent? Not always.

If you want to know someone's "intent" behind their tattoos, try *asking*. You might be surprised by what you hear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I went through the same terrifying experience two years ago. I like what you did with the tattoos. I can totally relate to your chaos. Even though it was two years ago I have tears in my eyes right now typing this. I wish I had thought to deal with it as you did.

Angel,

Your tattoos had a message that you knew, and it meant something to you. You're certainly right that we humans are too quick to judge and condemn without even finding out someone's reasons behind what they do. I enjoyed reading what your tattoos mean to you. You went through a time of fear, doubt and probably depression wondering what was going to happen to you, but you came through it triumphantly. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[gamblefish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RIVERRAT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gamblefish:
Amen Angel, I hear ya.

Who cares "who" finds "what" attractive. I thought the nudist philosophy was about acceptance no matter what one looks like. Guess not all nudists ascribe to this nudist philosophy.

Personally, I have one tattoo (so far) and my eyebrow is pierced, along with two piercings on one ear. I do not practice socially, but if this were to be an issue with a club, then screw 'em.
Who needs 'em. Bunch 'o hypocrites!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>you are totaly wrong God gave us these bodies to protect and take care of You must worry because that tatoo goes to your grave it's one of the few things you take with you if you believe your body if eternal, you must beleive that or you wouldn't paint your body, what we do here is dust in the wind we leave it here when we leave, why would you want to go through life with that decal on your body I guess GOD when you get to heaven will at you say, I didn't give that to you why are bringing it with you now??? Why would anyone permanently paint there body???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For one thing, I believe that my spirit is eternal but my physical body will pass away (change). I am thankful for the body God gave me, and I enjoy decorating it with odds and ends. In fact, the tattoo that I have is Christian in nature. I think God would be pleased with it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NakedGary]

Maybe this question is sexual not nudist in form, but do men and women with genital jewelry remove these devices or leave them in place while having intercourse ?

It seems to me that a male with a large Prince Albert in place could do injury or make a larger piercing with the mechanics of intercourse.

just curious

[hemdale]

Maybe this question is sexual not nudist in form, but do men and women with genital jewelry remove these devices or leave them in place while having intercourse ?

To Nakedgary

People leave all jewelry in place during sex as its there to add to each partners pleasure. This includes large Prince Alberts.

hemdale

[Jochanaan]

The p***ionate disagreements in this thread remind me how difficult yet necessary it is to distinguish between personal taste, cultural acceptability, and value judgments. I do not care for piercings or tattoos, and I seem to recall a verse in Leviticus against "cutting the flesh" and "printing marks;" but I would never try to prohibit anyone from doing so, since that's God's business, not mine.

[Jochanaan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochanaan:
The p***ionate disagreements... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oops! The auto-censor seems to think I wrote something crude, rude, lewd, or socially unacceptable. Can it be made a bit more logical?

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochanaan:
Oops! The auto-censor seems to think I wrote something crude, rude, lewd, or socially unacceptable. Can it be made a bit more logical? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's hope that our friends at INA, who usually do such a good job with this forum, will ***ert themselves to ***ess the ways this problem might be resolved. It may take some ***iduous effort on their part, but surely someone can be ***igned to preserve the value of this ***et. There must be someone who would join with other ***ociates to ***ist with this problem.

In the meantime, let's ***ume that this problem will receive the ***istance it deserves.

The way things are now would try to patience of St. Francis of ***issi. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Jochanaan]

It looks as if this fine association has asserted themselves to assess the problem! Thanks, guys and gals!

[Rik]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochanaan:
It looks as if this fine association has asserted themselves to assess the problem! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>**** me so they have! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rik