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Sanslines
12-29-2006, 06:02 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15968431/wid/11915773/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14817871/


From the above article:

"Experts believe people between ages 18 to 25 are the most likely to use meth, and women account for 45 percent of addicts seeking treatment — higher than for any other drugs. That’s largely because women have reported to using meth to help lose weight while maintaining high energy levels.

Instead, it has made users’ teeth and hair fall out, Walters said, and “turns you into the walking dead.”

And:

"Once inhaled, injected or smoked, meth creates euphoria and energy that can last for several days. But the frenzied flights are followed by depression and exhaustion that drive the need for the next fix. Eventually, the relentless pursuit of meth drives many users out of their middle- and upper-class lives into a grim existence of crime, poverty and deteriorating health on the streets."

Who wants to get involved with something that leads to sickness and death? What drives people to become a member of the 'walking dead'? What are the reasons behind this epidemic and why can't it be stopped?

Sanslines
12-29-2006, 06:02 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15968431/wid/11915773/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14817871/


From the above article:

"Experts believe people between ages 18 to 25 are the most likely to use meth, and women account for 45 percent of addicts seeking treatment — higher than for any other drugs. That’s largely because women have reported to using meth to help lose weight while maintaining high energy levels.

Instead, it has made users’ teeth and hair fall out, Walters said, and “turns you into the walking dead.”

And:

"Once inhaled, injected or smoked, meth creates euphoria and energy that can last for several days. But the frenzied flights are followed by depression and exhaustion that drive the need for the next fix. Eventually, the relentless pursuit of meth drives many users out of their middle- and upper-class lives into a grim existence of crime, poverty and deteriorating health on the streets."

Who wants to get involved with something that leads to sickness and death? What drives people to become a member of the 'walking dead'? What are the reasons behind this epidemic and why can't it be stopped?

usmc1
12-29-2006, 09:48 AM
Actually, I answered this question yesterday under another related topic. Addiction is a health care issue.

But, here's a some personal anecdotes about how insidious this particular drug has become.

It is easy to "manufacture" and the indgredients, while become more and more difficult to come by legally, are pretty much at hand.

How easy? Just rip out the back seat of your car and set up your "mobile lab" and you're in the meth business.

Several years ago, when I lived in the "heartland" I had a young couple with several grade school children as neighbors.

The wife worked as nurse and the husband worked in his family's ranching/land/quarry business. This family, while not wealthy was well established, and owned hundreds and hundreds of acres of prime farm and woodlands. They even had a county road named for them.

One day, I found this neighbor parked on the dirt road adjacent to my property and when I asked how was going on he told me was hunting the gulleys and creeks for Indian artifacts and that after a rain they often washed out. He asked if he could walk our woods.

I gave him my OK.

A few months later, I read in the paper where he and his cohorts had been arrested for several meth labs scattered over his property as well as supplies and equipment for meth production in his garage.

No Indian artifacts were listed in the inventory.

Since then, over a period of four or five eyars, I have followed his "career" which now includes probation and parole violations, home-invasion, intimidation, armed robbery, fleeing, wreckless endangerment and aggravated assault and addition to the various drug charges.

Nice kid, world by the ***--all gone!

When we decide as a nation that we have had enough, and go to the root cause of the problem rather than warehousing and punishing drug offenses will we get on top of the problem.

missouriboy
12-30-2006, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When we decide as a nation that we have had enough, and go to the root cause of the problem rather than warehousing and punishing drug offenses will we get on top of the problem </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What do you perceive as the root problem?

usmc1
12-30-2006, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When we decide as a nation that we have had enough, and go to the root cause of the problem rather than warehousing and punishing drug offenses will we get on top of the problem </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What do you perceive as the root problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Failure to understand and accept that drug and alcohol addiction (all addiction, for that matter) is a disease, and to develop national policies, programs and strategies and to devote the resources needed to conquer the disease.

It is a tremendously complicated problem, but when you drill down to the very core--our failure to treat addiciton for what it is, a disease, is the root cause.

There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial.

missouriboy
12-31-2006, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. And, as firemen succeed in quenching fire by removing one (or more) of its three essential ingredients, why can't we use the same technique to quash at least one of the major causes that foment the proliferation of harmful drugs? Again, let's review another of those 10 year old studies by our deep-thinking old friend, Joe... click here. (http://www.sobran.com/columns/2006/061128.shtml)

Sure, the commentary describes the problem as it was ten years ago. And ten years, 20 years, before that. But has the problem changed since then? Why not?

usmc1
12-31-2006, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. And, as firemen succeed in quenching fire by removing one (or more) of its three essential ingredients, why can't we use the same technique to quash at least one of the major causes that foment the proliferation of harmful drugs? Again, let's review another of those 10 year old studies by our deep-thinking old friend, Joe... click here. (http://www.sobran.com/columns/2006/061128.shtml)

Sure, the commentary describes the problem as it was ten years ago. And ten years, 20 years, before that. But has the problem changed since then? Why not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No the problem today is as it was in the days of gin alleys in Merry Olde England. The substances change but the rest is as it always was.

Same crap, different stink!

nekkedtruth
12-31-2006, 03:06 PM
I survived and recovered from meth addiction...real bad stuff!!!! Thanking god for every new day!!!!

usmc1
01-01-2007, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nekkedtruth:
I survived and recovered from meth addiction...real bad stuff!!!! Thanking god for every new day!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for you. Dr. Bob and Bill have been friends of mine for 22-years next month. Know them?

nekkedtruth
01-01-2007, 07:36 AM
Yes I know of Bill Wilson and Bob Smith. Their recovery plan is what got me started towards recovery. Perhaps the most important element of my recovery has been family support.

Garry
01-01-2007, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:

One day, I found this neighbor parked on the dirt road adjacent to my property and when I asked how was going on he told me was hunting the gulleys and creeks for Indian artifacts and that after a rain they often washed out. He asked if he could walk our woods.

I gave him my OK.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to walk your property to see if he had set-up a lab on yours?

usmc1
01-02-2007, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Garry:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:

One day, I found this neighbor parked on the dirt road adjacent to my property and when I asked how was going on he told me was hunting the gulleys and creeks for Indian artifacts and that after a rain they often washed out. He asked if he could walk our woods.

I gave him my OK.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to walk your property to see if he had set-up a lab on yours? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I did and to this day we include it in our plans for retirement portfolio.

Talk about a cash cow.

Actually, we found none. Nor did the sheriff's dogs and spotter chopper all of whom scoured that end of the county for days.

Stirred up the squirrels, possums and coyotes so bad that Id had squirrels in my attic, possums under the front porch and coyotes sleeping in the garage with the dogs.

Pansy, the cat, formed a liason with a possum and still grieves for him.

missouriboy
01-02-2007, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You make a statement, then when I agree with it, you disagree with it. With this kind of self-contradiction, there can be no communication. Fooey on it.

missouriboy
01-02-2007, 07:42 AM
Anyone else care to comment on Joe Sobran's essay that: a) the illicit drug trade is highly profitable, and that b) the government's War On Drugs goes a long way toward creating that profitability?

usmc1
01-02-2007, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usmc1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by missouriboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You make a statement, then when I agree with it, you disagree with it. With this kind of self-contradiction, there can be no communication. Fooey on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hold your horses.

Clearly what I said no to was...

Here's the entire post, without proof-texting.

Originally posted by missouriboy:

quote:
There are many reasons for this; ignorance, scape-goating, high profitability, institutional failure, lack of education, and so forth. Each, is part of our collective denial.

Yes. And, as firemen succeed in quenching fire by removing one (or more) of its three essential ingredients, why can't we use the same technique to quash at least one of the major causes that foment the proliferation of harmful drugs? Again, let's review another of those 10 year old studies by our deep-thinking old friend, Joe... click here.

Sure, the commentary describes the problem as it was ten years ago. And ten years, 20 years, before that. But has the problem changed since then? Why not?[/QUOTE]


I replied...

"No the problem today is as it was in the days of gin alleys in Merry Olde England. The substances change but the rest is as it always was.

Same crap, different stink!"

You asked if the problem had changed. I replied No, the subtances and methods of ingestion might chaange, but the problem remains unchanged through the generations.

I just do not see where one can find a contradiction in that to my other, earlier posts on this subject. Unless, they've had burnt toast for breakfast, and are just looking for something to be bothered by.

missouriboy
01-03-2007, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You asked if the problem had changed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, no, not exactly. I only asked if the problem described in the linked essay had changed. The one problem that I highlighted when quoting your long list of problems. Perhaps the highlight feature doesn't show up on your monitor?

My post was only about the "high profitability" portion of the overall problem. So was the link. Did you even read it? You certainly didn't respond to it. You said No, but only an idiot could believe that the failed War On Drugs is not a problem, and I know you are NOT an idiot... you just don't want to communicate about ideas with me. So that's why I say "Fooey on it." Forget it.