Being too good?

[Bob S.]

OZJames created a topic called Nudists are GOOD people (http://www.clothesfree.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001160) elsewhere on this forum. In it, he espouses on how nudists are generally good people. I commented on that topic that our want not to offend others is both our biggest asset as well as our biggest weakness.

My question here is how we can balance not offending others while at the same time furthering our cause of more areas for nude recreation. We know that by doing nothing, we will lose out on many of our advances. But how can we prosper in our goal without offending others? Or is offense a necessary evil in order to further our cause?

There is a favorite saying of mine that goes something like this: If you are not offending someone, you are not doing anything worth doing.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

OZJames created a topic called Nudists are GOOD people (http://www.clothesfree.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001160) elsewhere on this forum. In it, he espouses on how nudists are generally good people. I commented on that topic that our want not to offend others is both our biggest asset as well as our biggest weakness.

My question here is how we can balance not offending others while at the same time furthering our cause of more areas for nude recreation. We know that by doing nothing, we will lose out on many of our advances. But how can we prosper in our goal without offending others? Or is offense a necessary evil in order to further our cause?

There is a favorite saying of mine that goes something like this: If you are not offending someone, you are not doing anything worth doing.

Bob S.

[Gary Naturist]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob S.:
OZJames created a topic called Nudists are GOOD people (http://www.clothesfree.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001160) elsewhere on this forum. In it, he espouses on how nudists are generally good people. I commented on that topic that our want not to offend others is both our biggest asset as well as our biggest weakness.

My question here is how we can balance not offending others while at the same time furthering our cause of more areas for nude recreation. We know that by doing nothing, we will lose out on many of our advances. But how can we prosper in our goal without offending others? Or is offense a necessary evil in order to further our cause?

There is a favorite saying of mine that goes something like this: If you are not offending someone, you are not doing anything worth doing.

Bob S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>When I go nude in public, I expect that no one will be offended. Why should they be? What can possibly be offensive about the naked human body?

If I then find that someone is upset with my being nude, I try to find an accommodation that works for both of us.

Gary

[Jochanaan]

The problem is not being too good. It's being good in the wrong way.

In my field, music, the best players, singers, and leaders are not those who play it safe, but those who take chances and give their whole beings to the music. Leonard Bernstein was a fine example (I choose him because he's most likely to be familiar to non-musicians); any recording or concert of his was an event to which he gave his body and soul. Even when I disagreed with his interpretation, I walked away amazed. No one has yet filled his shoes.

Steve Gough, from all I hear of him, is a good example of this kind of "good."

[Rex]

I'm a logical person, and I believe in freedom of choice when no real harm is done to others.
For the most part, those offended by simple nudity are just reacting to what they were taught, or brainwashed, as kids.
Well, now they are adult, it's about time they learned to use the reasoning power of their adult minds.
If they can't, or won't, do that, then it's not my fault.
My observation, including plenty of personal nudity on quietish non-nude beaches, and a fair amount of nude protesting, is that most people can handle discrete nudity. If there were more of that, most people would quickly come to accept it, some would join in, and the acceptance would spread. This is not likely to happen without more nudists "coming out of the closet", and more being prepared to push the issue.

[MikeJB]

Nudity is not offensive and we gotta show people that and maybe pushing the issue a little bit more and having a little civil disobediance would work. I mean it might take a few people getting offended to further our cause, if it means that there is a greater good. You cant really do something in this world without offending someone, so its really a silly thing to worry about when it comes to nudity, no matter what you do you will offend someone and you cant do nothing so obviously the only option is for nudists to ban together and push the issue and challenge the norm.

[OZJames]

Looks like we have a bit of anarchy here, ?banning together?, ?challenging the norm?, ?civil disobedience?, nude (unauthorised) street marches, nude protests ? where will it end ?

I think you are right - the musician that challenges usual interpretation, the painter that paints what he/she likes, refusing to paint saleable commercially acceptable, probably boring works, the writer that shocks everyone ? these are the people more likely to be noticed. Dinner parties would be dull without guests that make outrageous statements. Fancy dress parties without the guest [un]dressed as a nude would be ?old hat?. Life would be very boring if people did not take chances.

Jochanan said ?You can learn many lessons from trying a misunderstood thing and sticking with it against tremendous scorn and opposition, as nudists have done.?

I don?t think that being a bit outrageous with some public nudism promotion is going to offend anybody and if there were people who may be offended they can walk away. I think the key is large numbers of nude people. The more nude people together the less offence or shock and the more likely that radio and TV will promote the cause.

JAMES

[aunaturelone]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When I go nude in public, I expect that no one will be offended. Why should they be? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh, because they don't share your values. You can say you don't think they ought to be offended but unless you live in a nudist community you can't honestly say you don't expect them to be offended. If nobody (or even less than a majority) felt nudity was offensive, it wouldn't be illegal.

I expect any number of things I do that are perfectly harmless will offend someone.

[Jochanaan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OZJames:
...I don?t think that being a bit outrageous with some public nudism promotion is going to offend anybody and if there were people who may be offended they can walk away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If only they would! But with the climate the way it is now, they're more likely to sue us!

Actually, they might do themselves more harm and us more good if they would. Surely there are lawyers among us who would take such a case pro bono.

[HedonistEMT]

The U.S. is such a prudish country as it is. Where else can you find poor nursing mothers relegated to the restrooms to feed their hungry children? /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I don't know how you can possibly equate breasts with genitals. They're NOT genitals! How can they be offensive? *sigh* Off my soap box now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

[nudebynature]

I think that this subject is very important. We are too nice and too accommodating.

Nudists are tax payers. Soccer players get publicly funded soccer pitches, hockey players get publicly funded arenas, skateboarders and roller bladers get roller parks, cyclists get cycle paths. You get the idea. What do nudists get for their tax money?

In the States, they are trying to pass a law in Wisconsin that says that publicly funded land should not be used for nudism. Wait a minute! Where is the fairness in this?

And what are we talking about anyway? There was more nudism in the past. Skinny dipping was the norm a few decades ago. Now you can scarcely find a nude swimming hole. Hundreds of years ago, there were no anti-nudity laws. What we are talking about is reclaiming part of what we have lost.

I agree that we are nice. Nudists are the nicest people that I know. We are too nice. We don't wish to offend. We are content to accept the meagre scraps given to us.

If we don't push the limits, we will continue to be marginalized and will have to be happy with what we get.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Clothes make the man, but nakedness makes the human being." -- Kevin Kearney

[Trailscout]

OzJames hit the nail on the head!

One nude guy on the beach is a weirdo that a "good" citizen should report. A dozen nude families with kids playing beachball, building sandcastles, and swimming might start a new trend on the right beach, or revive an old trend on a beach that used to be ours.

This isn't going to happen by accident. We have to organize and make it happen.

Teamwork, guys!

[nudeinfl]

OFFENSIVE. Do yo really think America even knows what that means. Of course nudity is offensive. The reason being, we don't have a strong enough lobby in D.C. or enough control in Hollyweird. Notice how most of the behavior exhibited on t.v. (especially before the Superbowl) wasn't deemed offensive by the papers. Honestly, if Janet Jackson didn't show her breast, do you think anyone would mention how crude the halftime show was.

Should we offend people. HELL YES. I'm offended everytime a moronic judge passes sentence on an individual exercising his/her right to be in the natural state. I also offended by the political beaurocrats everytime they pass another law restricting what wee can/cannot do. And most of all, I'm offended by the religous hypocrites when shove their beliefs down every elses throat. If you're offended by my nudity, then at least I won't have to drop my pants for you to kiss my a**.

[MikeJB]

Yeah and besides if we organize a large enough group of nudists, its harder and less likely for the police to arrest us or do anything and if they do more people will put up a stink about it. We gotta organize and get out there and tell these people we aint gonna deal with the beauracratic religious intolerant anti nudity crap anymore.

[Trailscout]

Mike,

We need to exercise military strategy. Let's choose our battles carefully.

We would like to expand the areas where we can be nude.

There are several approaches to that:

1. We could recruit new nudists on college campuses or from the general public. Non-landed clubs can help college nudists get organized. Nudism could also be promoted subtly. A college student could organize "naked parties" to introduce nude recreation to the students. A campus hiking club could have a campout that had optional skinnydipping at a lake or river.

2. We could infiltrate local government in counties that have desireable territory for nudist conquest, especially coastal areas or places with rural acreage and lakes and rivers.

3. We can expand our prescence on beaches that are nudist but are in danger of reverting to textile.

4. Once a beach has a good number of nude people, we need to spill out into adjacent areas.

5. A beach that has a lot of nude use, may still be grounds for recruiting for INA, AANR or TNS. The idea here is that some of these people that are textiles out skinnydipping for a day need to be encouraged to explore full tilt nude living, at home, in the yard, in a nudist resort if possible and we definitely want them to get politically active.

6. There should be more nude use of public and private health clubs by non-landed clubs.

7. We need to take a look at areas of the USA and elsewhere that underserved by nudist resorts or where the resorts are too exclusive. Where feasible, we need to have new resorts or even simple campgrounds. Sometimes a few acres of private land is all we need.

8. We can help existing organizations like Friends of Black's Beach, Friends of Apollo Beach, The Naturist Action Committee, to help fund our legal battles.

Mike, this forum is a great place to brainstorm and try to get some things going. I want to hear your ideas too.

[Gary Naturist]

I really love the attitude of the people posting in this topic! We do need to be aggressive (in a nice way).

Great ideas, Trailscount.

One way to push the envelope is through "back yard nudity". The idea is to gradually introduce your neighbors to your being nude. They will realize that there's nothing offensive about the naked human body.

Gary

[Trailscout]

Gary,

I see every neighborhood as a unique situation. If you have young hip neighbors who are not offended, by all means go for it.

I am not the type to mow my lawn nude while totally visible to all around me.

What I would be comfortable with is having an enclosed pool area and as I make friends with the neighbors, I would tell them that guests are welcome, but we use the pool nude unless someone objects.

I would enjoy having a private yard so I could garden in the nude.

I think being nude in one's own private yard or pool area doesn't have nearly the negative baggage that nudists at resorts are subjected to.

The concept of nude sunbathing and private skinnydipping is a much easier sell. And with the animosity out there, we need a way for people to take a babystep toward social nudity.

[Jochanaan]

Rural or suburban dwellers have a big advantage here in that the number of neighbors in sight is manageable. In highly urban areas that number is so large as to prohibit outdoor nudity "in the altogether." This is why we need more legally sanctioned nude lakes, beaches, etc.

[Trailscout]

Jochanaan,

I live in a tightly packed older suburban neighborhood. The neighbors are generally pretty good folks, but I feel like I live in a fish bowl.

I really would like to have a nearby place to blow off a little steam and it really wouldn't take that much money or building to create a mini-nudist sanctuary. If you had an acre or two of private land an easy drive from home, it would be blessed relief from the textile world. I want a small lake with a dock, or instead maybe a swimming pool. Add in a few square feet of sand and a volleyball net, an outdoor shower and you've got a lot.

Sometimes I think we are killing flys with a shotgun when we propose a l000 acre luxury nudist resort just so we can have a place to blow off some steam and be our nude selves for a while. I have to drive for almost two hours to get to the resort I like best, but sometimes I wish we had little nudist sanctuaries all over town that we could visit on the spur of the moment.