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Nate Dekan
08-04-2002, 12:09 AM
Question: Was Adam and Eves shame genital specific?

I don't believe there is any evidence of that from scripture: actually I think it absolutely WASN'T! I think the perception that it was is deception that comes of course from Satan but can also can be seen in the Gnostic influence on the early church, Augustine"s influence on the church and many other sources.

First, God said that everything He created was very good and He told them to be fruitful and multiply (which would require sex) before the fall, therefore that is blessed by God and nothing to be ashamed of.

Second, God said don't eat fruit from this tree and they ate it, very simple, nothing sexual or genital there, unless you're REALLY reading your own garbage into it. (which a lot of people do!)

Third, Nothing in scripture says they only covered their genitals, that may be what paintings show but it's not what is stated, it says they made coverings for themselves "coverings" implies to me that it is likely much more, especially when the next part (that people often overlook) is considered. When they heard God, they HID IN THE TREES; they were not standing there with a strategically placed single fig leaf covering the genitals nonchalantly waiting for God! They where hiding, God had to call them out!

Looking beyond scripture into human behavior today doesn't that parallel how children often behave when they know they've done something wrong? I"ve been around children (and remember) enough to know that when kids have done something they know is really wrong, parents often have to go hunt them out. They will often be found under the bed, or in the closet covered by a pile of clothes or blankets, under the basement stairs covered by boxes, or in the middle of thick bush's, etc. hiding. Adults may not react quite the same, but when we?ve done something wrong (or that would not meet the approval of others, even if we believe that it is not wrong) we hide it as well. Humm, sounds a lot like Adam and Eve! Nothing genital specific about it, when humans do something they know is wrong, or wouldn't be generally accepted, they feel exposed, naked (figuratively speaking) shamed, and they try to hide.

Nate

Nate Dekan
08-04-2002, 12:09 AM
Question: Was Adam and Eves shame genital specific?

I don't believe there is any evidence of that from scripture: actually I think it absolutely WASN'T! I think the perception that it was is deception that comes of course from Satan but can also can be seen in the Gnostic influence on the early church, Augustine"s influence on the church and many other sources.

First, God said that everything He created was very good and He told them to be fruitful and multiply (which would require sex) before the fall, therefore that is blessed by God and nothing to be ashamed of.

Second, God said don't eat fruit from this tree and they ate it, very simple, nothing sexual or genital there, unless you're REALLY reading your own garbage into it. (which a lot of people do!)

Third, Nothing in scripture says they only covered their genitals, that may be what paintings show but it's not what is stated, it says they made coverings for themselves "coverings" implies to me that it is likely much more, especially when the next part (that people often overlook) is considered. When they heard God, they HID IN THE TREES; they were not standing there with a strategically placed single fig leaf covering the genitals nonchalantly waiting for God! They where hiding, God had to call them out!

Looking beyond scripture into human behavior today doesn't that parallel how children often behave when they know they've done something wrong? I"ve been around children (and remember) enough to know that when kids have done something they know is really wrong, parents often have to go hunt them out. They will often be found under the bed, or in the closet covered by a pile of clothes or blankets, under the basement stairs covered by boxes, or in the middle of thick bush's, etc. hiding. Adults may not react quite the same, but when we?ve done something wrong (or that would not meet the approval of others, even if we believe that it is not wrong) we hide it as well. Humm, sounds a lot like Adam and Eve! Nothing genital specific about it, when humans do something they know is wrong, or wouldn't be generally accepted, they feel exposed, naked (figuratively speaking) shamed, and they try to hide.

Nate

08-04-2002, 07:27 AM
As I said in the other post, I don't believe that their nakedness had anything to do with the shame they felt. Covering themselves was their feeble way of trying to hide their sin of disbedience. "They knew they were naked." I believe that refers to the nakedness of their sin before God, not the nakedness of their bodies. They had never been ashamed of their bodys' nakedness before so why all of a sudden? God had forbidden them only one thing by saying, "Thou shalt not--",
but they did anyway. That destroys the belief that if mankind lived in a perfect environment then he would be perfect. Adam and Eve WERE perfect and lived in a perfect environment and still chose to do the one thing they were forbidden to do. that proves that when forbidden to do something people will do it to find out why it's forbidden.

Why would they get the idea that their genitals were sinful and shameful and should be covered? Because they're areas of pleasure? My mouth is an area of pleasure because I love food and get a lot of pleasure from eating. So that makes my mouth sinful and an area of shame, right? What about when I get a back massage? That brings me a lot of pleasure. So that makes my back sinful and something shameful, right?

Hiding was another useless attempt to hide their sin. They knew that God knew and were afraid of His anger and punishment that they knew was coming, just as a child runs and hides because he knows he's going to get a spanking or whatever.

Despite the belief that they had suddenly become ashamed of their bodies, and therefore that "proves" the naked body is shameful, the figleaf coverings were just their inept way of trying to hide their sin and nothing more. The skin coverings God furnished for them was for the purpose of protecting them from the cruel, harsh world He was sending them out into since He was driving them out of the garden. The skins were not given them because God was suddenly embarrassed or ashamed of the bodies He had created. They were for protection from the weather and thorns and wnatever was awaiting them outside the protection of the garden. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif