"Modest Apparel"

Here's a question we can kick around.

What does 1 Timothy 2:9 mean when it says that women are to "adorn themselves in modest apparel."?

Here's my spin on that scripture: I don't believe it means that women are to cover themselves from head to toe, but that it means that they should not dress in a provocative way as to excite and arouse men. A woman's dress is not supposed to be for the purpose of turning a man on.

Any other ideas on this? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Here's a question we can kick around.

What does 1 Timothy 2:9 mean when it says that women are to "adorn themselves in modest apparel."?

Here's my spin on that scripture: I don't believe it means that women are to cover themselves from head to toe, but that it means that they should not dress in a provocative way as to excite and arouse men. A woman's dress is not supposed to be for the purpose of turning a man on.

Any other ideas on this? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[nudistwheelchair]

If u read the rest of verse 9 it says "with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or COSTLY CLOTHING." Which mean that women should wear what God gave her not how the world dress her.

Also it really mean that God dosen't what anyone to give into the world but to gloryfiy his son and believe that He died for his sins So we may have Internal life with him when we all go to the father in heaven

[nudistwheelchair]

sorry (I mean our sins)

NWC, Don't you mean eternal life and not internal? Anyway, due to the world's way of looking at the nude body, it's not possible at this time to be nude in public so clothing is necessary because of our culture. I don't think there's anything immodest about the nude human body because it's then in it's natural state. In fact, there are many articles of clothing that are very immodest because they're meant to entice.

This is not because the nude body IS obscene but because people SEE it as obscene. This is because of the belief that the body is something shameful and must be hidden--particularly from children who may be "tramatized". Such a belief as this is harmful because it is contrary to what God meant when He said after creating everything including Adam and Eve that it was "very good".

When did something that was "very good" when God created it become "obscene"? There are those who say it happened when Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit and "made themselves aprons" when they saw that they were naked. Does this imply that what was once not shameful, the nude body, was suddenly shameful?

Do the words "modest apparel" mean that God now means for us to wear clothing as many believe? I seriously doubt this, but perhaps I'm just trying to justify doing something I want to do that God doesn't intend for us to do. I would like to see some ideas on why this was written only to the women and what the words "modest apparel" might mean. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[David77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
Here's a question we can kick around.

What does 1 Timothy 2:9 mean when it says that women are to "adorn themselves in modest apparel."? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is a letter from Paul to Timothy, and in this second chapter he is giving instructions on worship.

Since someone very recently said that he considered the New International Version of the New Testament to be the most accurate translation, I will quote this translation as follows;

"I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over men; she must be silent".

Paul was a product of his patriarchal society whose attitude was quite injurious toward women, and his horrible advice about women should not be adopted today.

However his advice, (in my free and imprecise language) not to dress like maybe a "prostitute at worship" would be reasonable for the prosperity and growth of ancient Christian groups.

[RalphVa]

And what part of "modest" did you read out of the dictionary? It also refers to not showing off your wealth by the type of clothing you wear, etc. THIS is the modesty that Paul is talking about.

Christians were baptised nude then, probably to symbolize their return to being naked and unashamed as they were born the 1st time. There were also nude sports activities, nude public bathing. None of these things are mentioned or condemned by any of the NT writers.

Ralph

[David77]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RalphVa:
It also refers to not showing off your wealth by the type of clothing you wear, etc. THIS is the modesty that Paul is talking about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I like this statement better than my statement. I think that your interpretation listed above is correct.

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David77:
[Paul's advice, (in my free and imprecise language) not to dress like maybe a "prostitute at worship" would be reasonable for the prosperity and growth of ancient Christian groups. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My view is that David77 has caught the primary original meaning. In Paul's day people who would be out moving about the streets adorned with jewelry and fancy hairdos were likely to be prostitutes.

Prostitutes had a higher social standing in this days. In Greek communities prostitution was typically connected to worship of the fertility gods, and was therefore reasonably respectable. But it would have been seriously disgraceful to the Christian community if women at worship were thought to also be participating in pagan fertility rites.

Using clothing and adornment to demonstrate that one was richer than another would also be a violation of the Christian community, so this is a reasonable secondary interpretation.

[Vin]

And what's wrong with Pagan fertility rites? They're fun! };>

I have to say that reading the KJV of this passage, it seems to be addressing conduct rather than clothing. Of course, it also seems to say that "women should be seen and not heard," which seems to have been Paul's position. I've enver read anything credible attributed to Jesus that puts these words in _his_ mouth.

I get the impression that Paul didn't have a very high regard for women or marriage. He said that he would prefer that all unmarried and widows be as he was (unmarried), but that if they couldn't "exercise self-control, let them marry." This is in 1Cor. 7:7-9. NKJV

Yes, I agree that the scripture I mentioned before is probably mainly about showing off one's wealth. I believe that "modest apparel" refers to wearing simple clothing while worshipping so as not to draw attention to one's self. I have to admit that I've been guilty of wanting people to notice a new suit and compliment me. No fancy jewelry that will draw people's attention away from the worship of God. Of course, if no one was wearing anything, what would there be to attract anyone's attention? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[luvnaturism]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
I get the impression that Paul didn't have a very high regard for women or marriage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>When it comes to understanding Paul, women and marriage are two different issues.

In the society of the time women were not regarded as being people in the same sense as men. Legally they were hardly more than chattel property, just a small step above slavery, and had almost no rights.

In that context Christians, including Paul, recognized that women had worth because they were loved by God just as were men. That early church, including Paul, recognized that women had leadership gifts and made at least some room for those gifts to be used. It doesn't seem like much today, but it was revolutionary at the time.

Paul's comments about marriage reflect the fact that he, along with all the early church leaders, believed that the return of Jesus to set up his earthly kingdom was imminent. They were certain that it might happen today; it's likely to happen this month; it will certainly happen this year.

With the expectation that earthly activity would be radically changed so quickly, Paul thought it just made more sense to focus more on prayer and less on marriage. However, he recognized that couples might have trouble controlling their sexual desires. Therefore, "let them marry...."

[David77]

Luvnaturism,
You obviously have a great store of knowledge of the ancient cultures of Bible times. In your vast amount of reading, you probably found it essential to at least consider study of some of the (most wonderful) books of the pre-eminent scholar, John Dominic Crossen, who devoted over 25 years to the study of the historical Jesus, with accompanying in-depth studies of ancient cultures then.