Male Only Places [Archive] - ClothesFree Forum

NakedGary

11-10-2006, 03:39 PM

Louisk

The YMCA's mostly have gone to family and coed facilities and have either all male evenings where they still swim and exercise, and shower sauna nude or have eliminated nudity in all areas except in the male changing and group showers.

The Elks clubs across the country used to have nude swimming, exercise, sauna, and steam room facilities for males only, but they to now have a women’s auxiliary that meets at the facilities and dine at the facilities. Some have gone to a family style events and dinning, but still have male only gym and indoor pool facilities which are clothing optional.

Some of these men’s social clubs have been challenged by women who want equal admittance and membership....A few closed rather than switch to a mixed gender club. [Probably due to the nudity.]

Beware of facilities advertised as "Bath Houses" These usually are all male gay social sex party places that have gyms, pools, sauna, porno Video view rooms, group play rooms and locker, changing, and group showers.
.

nudeM

11-10-2006, 10:13 PM

Yea, the Elks used to have nude activities for males only, but no more, that I know of. If there are any, then it isn't advertised as such.

The Elks stopped nude activities because women are now among the ranks. Due to pressure? Probably so, but now that women are becoming officers and are now among the voting of various committees, I'm sure nude activities are nowhere to be found (as far as I know).

Just like the YMCA of yesteryears back, nude activities are not found, unless there are special men and/or womens nights. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/smoking.gif

CCNude

11-10-2006, 10:22 PM

Yeah, I really miss being able to stay at a YMCA and being able to swim naked. Too bad those days are over.

Fuzzy Nuts

11-11-2006, 02:56 PM

I"m afraid that with the bad feelings towards Gays by many that if any establishment such as the YMCA or other men's clubs were to to offer nude smimming they would be pounced upon as gay establishments by the ignorant.

I too remember fondly swimming naked at the YMCA as late as the 1970"s but havent heard of it done there since.

bnudes

11-12-2006, 03:47 AM

The places your talking about are way before my time but sound really cool. I'd love to have gone to the Y and hung out nude and swim. It's said that things are becomeing more liberal and accepted but it seems from whats been talked about that guys being naked together is the exception. I'm one of the very few guys that shower after pe.

Toffer

11-12-2006, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by bnudes:
I'm one of the very few guys that shower after pe.

Me too but all my friends understand me and dont weird over it

bill2me

11-12-2006, 05:31 AM

While I am old enough to remember the nude swimming at the YMCA, I have to admit I was too shy to go back then. I even hated PE because of the nakedness. In the 70's, at age 19, my friend took me to his health club several times. That's where I learned to relax and enjoy being naked. I think places like that are great to help people break away from those negative feelings nudity.

NudistGuy47

11-12-2006, 05:32 AM

I think the original post was not about the YMCA, but the traditional Russian baths, sometimes known as a schvitz. The environment is traditionally all-men, providing a place to take a steam, get a massage, and then have a bite to eat.

The Urban Dictionary defines "schvitz" as: Performed in a Russian-Turkish bathhouse, the purpose of a "schvitz" (meaning "sweat"), is multi-fold. Schvitzing, decontaminates the pours, softens the skin, and temporairly lowers blood presure. Some professional fighters use schvitzing, to help make weight for a fight. As it also results in loss of excess water retention. This takes place, in either a dry sauna, or a wet sauna. To complete the process, you douse yourself in ice cold water immediately upon exit, and repeat.

The link takes you to the Oakland Baths webpage with lots of photos and written commentary about the experience.

Oakland Health Club (http://members.aol.com/OABH1930/oabh9.html)

There are numerous Russian baths still in existence throughout the US, primarily in the larger metro areas, like NYC and Los Angeles. A Google serach can find many links to the facilities.

One such schvitz in suburban Cleveland was well know for the facilities and the "best steaks in town." It was common to visit the schvitz to steam, get a massage, and then sit down for a steak dinner wrapped in an enormous white towel.

Elsner's Steak and Steam (http://www.balancedlivingmag.com/2004/July%20-%20Aug%2004/Elsner%22s%20Steak%20&%20Steam.htm)

Naturist Mark

11-12-2006, 09:47 AM

There is a typo in the URL for Elsner's Steak and Steam.

Try this one: Elsner's Steak and Steam. (http://tinyurl.com/ycfu7f)

-Mark

CCNude

11-12-2006, 05:15 PM

Re: Elsner's: Yeah, I found it. In fact, I plan to stop by there around the end of the month.

CCNude

11-29-2006, 06:10 PM

Hey, NudistGuy47 and Naturist Mark -- I went by Elsner's this morning and there's a sign in their window that says "Closed Until Further Notice". Also "Lease" signs in the windows. I guess I didn't act quickly enough...

clebare

12-16-2006, 10:55 AM

when i was a kid - in the 50s, the y prohibited swim trunks in the pool. something about the strain on the filters. they, the y, blew it when they went coed! its too late to go back in todays environment!

hikingman

12-17-2006, 12:45 PM

I too can remember as a young boy in the 50s when we used to swim naked at the YMCA we where told that it was cleaner ,no trunks allowed .We also enjoyed swimming naked In the near by mountain steams of east Trennessee .Those where the good old days we had a great and fun time . Ron

Liam

12-17-2006, 08:52 PM

This is not completely on topic, but some years ago all the male only gyms in my city were sued and had to open their facilities to women. Within a year there were at least 2 women only gyms opened. It seems the women did not want to be seen exercising by men. Now there are women only but no male only gyms.

NudistGuy47

12-18-2006, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by CCNude:
Hey, NudistGuy47 and Naturist Mark -- I went by Elsner's this morning and there's a sign in their window that says "Closed Until Further Notice". Also "Lease" signs in the windows. I guess I didn't act quickly enough...

I do hope the venerable institution finds a buyer/operator soon. The food and experience at Elsner's used to be wonderful. t was kind of a rite of passage for many in the community to be welcomed at Elsner's.

CCNude

12-18-2006, 11:26 AM

Sorry I didn't get to Elsner's in time. On the other hand, I was able to enjoy swimming nude at both the Y and the college pool, so my life isn't a total loss!

nekkidincville

12-19-2006, 07:26 AM

bath county, va. has natural hot springs...and nudity is encouraged....unfortunately, they have a male bath-house, and a female bath-house http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif which makes it really weird, when you travel with a friend, and when it is time to partake of the natural healing warm-spring waters, you have to go to separate buildings....but...it is still a wonderful place to soak, and enjoy some nude recreation.

walter05

12-19-2006, 10:36 AM

Where in bath county are the bath houses?

What is the closest town and/or cross roads?

RalphVa

12-19-2006, 03:23 PM

The baths in Bath Country are in Warm Springs. They've been there for about 300 years. Jefferson supposedly partook of them when he was older and had arthritis. He stayed at the big resort in Hot Springs but went every day to the baths in Warm Springs, just north about 5 miles.

Most of the men were naked when I took my soak there. There was really only one with a suit on. Silly.

Massages can be taken in the women's change house, but in a public area of it. This is where the gift shop is, too.

Forgot the road that comes in from the east and meets up with the north-south road. The baths are just immediately southwest of that intersection.

walter05

12-20-2006, 01:22 PM

I found the link http://www.bathcountyva.org/.

I then clicked to explore bath county.

I then went to the "Map & Travel directions". I can see where Warm Springs is.

There is also an outdoor recreation tab. I was wondering if any of the outdoor recreation affords opportunities for being nude in nature.

Also, which would be closest to Warm Springs? I am thinking about going camping there and stopping at the springs on the way back.

P.S. If I choose to bring one of my sons with me, is there a minimum age for the baths and are they safe to bring him?

Arne

12-21-2006, 07:56 PM

If you search on the Homestead Resort or the Jefferson Pools, you will find out about the baths at the warm springs. The buildings are unheated and have one for men and one for women. You can be nude, but adults only. Arne

walter05

02-07-2007, 08:56 AM

Arne;

I came down with a case of Legoinaire's disease in December. I am back to pretty much normal now.

What is the best hotel close to the warm springs. i.e. a good price value choice.

NakedGary

05-15-2007, 10:49 PM

P.S. If I choose to bring one of my sons with me, is there a minimum age for the baths and are they safe to bring him?

Walter05

I'm not sure of your child's age, but most hot springs or spa's that charge for their services or facilities do not allow children under 18 or have or have personnel to watch children while the parents have treatments.

You’re on your own to be responsible, and be observant when visiting free and open hot springs with children. The open and free hot springs can be too warm and dangerous for small or young children and pregnant women. They should not used or be in un-monitored or temperature controlled springs, hot tubs, or spa's before consulting with a physician.

Link to free Guide to Swimming Holes and Hot Springs. (http://www.swimmingholes.org/)

Link to General Forums, Fitness and Health Forum where there is information on travel with babies and young children’s safety around wet areas. (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4430062734/m/8130087094)

I would suggest that unless you know the facility I would avoid taking any younger son to an all male spa, or hot springs where nudity and explicit activity is not that uncommon.

A definite No for facilities that call themselves "Bath Houses" in large cities on the East or West coast. These facilities have hot tubs, spa's steam, hot dry rooms, heated indoor and outdoor pools, and exercise areas, but are usually all male gay bath houses that cater to, allow, and tolerate open sexually explicitly & S & M conduct in common areas. Not the sort of facility you would take a son to.
.

au revoir

07-08-2007, 08:13 AM

I know there is a women-only gym near where I live but I have never known any men-only gym.

MJ_KC

07-08-2007, 08:30 AM

I have never heard of a male only gym. I have heard of male only clubs, but most of these are gone because of lawsuits forcing them to allow women.

Bobx23456

07-08-2007, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
I have never heard of a male only gym. I have heard of male only clubs, but most of these are gone because of lawsuits forcing them to allow women.

Most men-only places have been sued out of existance by the feminist courts. Women-only seems to be exempt from "equal rights" legislation. Men have become second class citizens by law in the US, and some other places.

Blessings

Bob

Croydon

07-08-2007, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MJ_KC:
I have never heard of a male only gym. I have heard of male only clubs, but most of these are gone because of lawsuits forcing them to allow women.

Most men-only places have been sued out of existance by the feminist courts. Women-only seems to be exempt from "equal rights" legislation. Men have become second class citizens by law in the US, and some other places.

Blessings

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am starting to releaize, you don't get out very much do you?

Lots of the stuff you say on here is bunch of BS

Boreas

07-08-2007, 04:00 PM

Some of you need to check your history books, or memory banks. The world used to be full of male-only places. These were places where men could meet without interference from women, and where they could exert their power. This was challenged as women entered into power roles. At one time women like Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton would not have been allowed in certain clubs in spite of the ranks they attained. (no comment on their politics here) That is wrong. Also, many women have been and continue to be harassed by men. Gyms have traditionally been male bastions where women were not comfortable. Therefore, they have created women only spaces for safety and comfort.

Perhaps they have thrown out the baby with the bathwater, and could have some men's clubs without being discriminatory. Men have far to go before EVER being considered second class citizens.

History forgotten is history repeated.

Bobx23456

07-08-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Some of you need to check your history books, or memory banks. The world used to be full of male-only places. These were places where men could meet without interference from women, and where they could exert their power. This was challenged as women entered into power roles. At one time women like Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton would not have been allowed in certain clubs in spite of the ranks they attained. (no comment on their politics here) That is wrong. Also, many women have been and continue to be harassed by men. Gyms have traditionally been male bastions where women were not comfortable. Therefore, they have created women only spaces for safety and comfort.

Indeed. laws requireing "equal rights" only mean that women have rights. They do not mean that men are allowed to have men only places such as you mention that women now have. "Equal rights" is a lying euphamism for "women only."

THE US DOJ under Janet Reno did a study and found that The ciminal injustice system in the USA is systematically discriminatory against men and for women. Janet Reno didn't think that is a problem and shelved the study. Its gotten worse since.

Blessings

Bob

MJ_KC

07-08-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
At one time women like Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton would not have been allowed in certain clubs in spite of the ranks they attained.
This placed women at a serious disadvantage in business because these were places where men would go to relax and makes deals outside the boardroom. This left women managers and executives with no input in the discussions.

Bobx23456

07-08-2007, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
At one time women like Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton would not have been allowed in certain clubs in spite of the ranks they attained.
This placed women at a serious disadvantage in business because these were places where men would go to relax and makes deals outside the boardroom. This left women managers and executives with no input in the discussions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meanwhile Hitllary Clinton enjoys female only company of rich business women in her NYC women only clubs. No "equal rights" there at all.

There are lots of men-only hellhole priosns in the USA where millions of men are incarcerated. Most women doing equal "crime" are not arrested, tried, convicted, or sentenced. There are still some "men-only" spaces in the US.

Blessings

Bob

Boreas

07-08-2007, 04:31 PM

Boreas

07-08-2007, 04:33 PM

There are lots of men-only hellhole priosns in the USA where millions of men are incarcerated. Most women doing equal "crime" are not arrested, tried, convicted, or sentenced. There are still some "men-only" spaces in the US.

Are you saying that women commit crimes to the same degree as men? Are you saying that men are put in these places for no reason?

I do not know about the US, but Canada does have women only prisons.

usuallylurk

07-08-2007, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
Are you saying that women commit crimes to the same degree as men? Are you saying that men are put in these places for no reason?

I do not know about the US, but Canada does have women only prisons.

The United States has plenty of women's prisons, and many of them ARE hellholes.

But women

a) do not commit crimes in the same (per capita volume) as men do, especially violent crimes

b) generally are treated with more leniency than men when it comes to sentencing -- this is most notable in those states that have capital punishment; they don't like to execute women.
According to one page, there have been 1086 executions in the U.S.A. since the death machines started up in 1977. Only 11 were women.

c) have more opportunities for rehabiitation in prison, because they need it -- most have no support system waiting for them when they get out.

Bobx23456

07-08-2007, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are lots of men-only hellhole priosns in the USA where millions of men are incarcerated. Most women doing equal "crime" are not arrested, tried, convicted, or sentenced. There are still some "men-only" spaces in the US.

Are you saying that women commit crimes to the same degree as men? Are you saying that men are put in these places for no reason? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is extreme sexism in the US criminal injustice system, CIS. For example, a woman recetnly served 5 days in a local jail for the assasination shotgun slaying of her husband while he slept. A man who killed his wife would spend the rest of his life in hellhole prisons.

Most crimes by women, even husband murders, are never investigated nor prosecuted. Why bother.

I do not know about the US, but Canada does have women only prisons.

They do have a few women's prisons, but none of the women's prison are anything near as horrible mistreatement as the hellholes they send millions of men to.

I just read recently that at Folsom prison in California there are more men who commit suicide because of the hellhole conditions than are executed.

Blessings

Bob

Boreas

07-08-2007, 08:22 PM

Oh those poor poor men. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/sad3.gif

Was there any information about things like domestic abuse or anything like that??

Good grief. I get very annoyed when I hear that men are unfairly treated in all cases, and that they are discriminated against. I do believe that male victims of sexual abuse, do not have the same access to services as women. I also have met men who have been abused by their wives. The fact is that women are much more often abused by their partners than men. Women are thrown into poverty as single mothers when marriages split more often than men. usuallylurk had some good information.

Do some homework about why there are services for women. Also, if you feel the need for more services for men, go out and set them up. That is how women's services got set up.

By the way, have you noticed, that women's services are the first to be cut by right-winged, neo-conservative/neo-liberal governments. Everything is generally set up to suit the white men like Cheney and Conrad Black, and their ilk.

Canada does have a notorious female ex-convict who I do believe got a far lighter sentence than she deserved. Some of that may have been because she was a "pretty" blonde female. Mostly, it was because she hid crucial evidence until she was convicted. Her name is Karla Homolka, or Karla Teal, or perhaps she has moved on to another name by now.

Swimguy

07-09-2007, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by MJ_KC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
At one time women like Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton would not have been allowed in certain clubs in spite of the ranks they attained.
This placed women at a serious disadvantage in business because these were places where men would go to relax and makes deals outside the boardroom. This left women managers and executives with no input in the discussions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recall when I had a business-to-business sales job, a co-worker insisted that she be allowed to keep all women-owned businesses as her clients because, well, she was a woman. She quickly changed her mind when I told her it would be a deal if I got to keep all of the male-owned businesses as my clients.

Bobx23456

07-09-2007, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
By the way, have you noticed, that women's services are the first to be cut by right-winged, neo-conservative/neo-liberal governments.

And here I thought that Canada had laws requiring equal rights and equal governement. I guess "equality" doesn't apply to women-preference or women-only services. Like elsewhere else these days "equality" in Canada only applies to prohibit services for men. Thanks for the info.

Blessings

Bob

Bobx23456

07-09-2007, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Swimguy:
I recall when I had a business-to-business sales job, a co-worker insisted that she be allowed to keep all women-owned businesses as her clients because, well, she was a woman. She quickly changed her mind when I told her it would be a deal if I got to keep all of the male-owned businesses as my clients.

A few years ago I read a study done in the UK. They surveyed businesses and compared women run businesses to men run businesses. Of corporations with a female majority on their board of directors, 100%, every single one, was losing money. Of the businesses with men dominated boards of directors, almost all were making a profit. Over time the market weeds out the losers.

I read another study of senior Vice Presidents of major corporations. Most of the men of that group were competing to eventually become CEO. Most of the females were satisfied with their current position and wanting to spend more time with their families than to devote the time needed to compete. Similar decisions by individual women add up across all businesses.

The only real discrimination in business, now or historically, is making a profit. If women aren't dominant in the board rooms overall, its not sexism but profit and individual women's choices that have caused the result.

Here's some investment advice. If you are someone who plays in stock markets, bet on companies that will probably make a profit.

Blessings

Bob

MoonShadow

07-09-2007, 09:36 AM

I see that sexism is alive on this forum!

Reading these last posts was like going back to the 1950s. Anyone who thinks women power players are not as good as men power players is someone who has his head up his you-know-what.

Bobx, yes, there is sexism and racism running rampant in the US but it is still against women and non-white minorities. If you think men are being "extremely" disciminated against, then you haven't been out in the real world.

Women of all colors and non-white men are still facing sexism/racism. Attitudes such as yours, Bobx and swimguy are what keep many still struggling to achieve positions we qualify for. When such attitudes are the rule of a business or board, you keep your board and business running under such attitudes. This is wrong!

Boreas

07-09-2007, 09:49 AM

Thanks Moonshadow. You saved me from shooting off my mouth! http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif You said what I wanted to so much more eloquently.

Bobx23456

07-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Yep, the same old tired feminist dogma that was being pushed in the 1950s is still with us, and being taught at schools, colleges, and universities all over the US and Canada. But we've heard the same old tired lies decade after decade, and they no longer work like they used to. The younger generation eschews the whole feminist sexism, and many of us older people just don't buy crap any more.

Time to drop the whole tired feminist dogma and get real. There are few, if any, male only places left while women only places abound. Our laws apply in a very sexist, misandrist manner. Our schools and universities have become oppressive to boys and young men, who are abandoning them in droves. Most western societies are rapidly diminishing as the birth rates continue to be so low that they can not be sustained. Its time to drop the misnadrist dogma and get real.

Blessings

Bob

Boreas

07-09-2007, 12:57 PM

Bob, if your ideas were based even a little bit in reality I would continue this discussion. I looked at some of the men's action information online. If this is where you are getting your ideas, I understand how you can be deluded. They cite single incidents and suggest that is a reflection of reality. If you truly believe that the world is slanted to favour women, you are deluded.

walter05

07-09-2007, 01:56 PM

Still_Boreas;

Prior to Bob getting off course, the question raised was about male only fitness clubs.

yellowstud raised this question. MJ_KC said that due to lawsuits, the male only clubs all ended up allowing women.

Do you object to the concept of there being male only fitness centers?

Do you agree that just as it is okay for there to be female only fitness places, it is okay for there to be male only fitness places.

Walter

Boreas

07-09-2007, 02:03 PM

Hi walter, I think I commented on this in one of my first posts. I do not object to male only places. I think there is most certainly a place for same sex gatherings/facilities, for whatever reason. What I do object to is the idea that the same sex gathering/club/facility confers certain privileges on that group, as in elite men's clubs that keep women (or other groups) out of the marketplace.

walter05

07-09-2007, 02:18 PM

Still_Boreas;

Then I think most of us men agree with you.

MoonShadow

07-09-2007, 03:17 PM

Exactly, Still_Boreus!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with all male fitness centers or other facilities but not when it is a facility where business/market deals are made which exclude business women.

Feminist dogma, Bobx? There is no such thing. Do you even know what feminism is?

Sher

Bobx23456

07-09-2007, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by MoonShadow:
Exactly, Still_Boreus!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with all male fitness centers or other facilities but not when it is a facility where business/market deals are made which exclude business women.

LOL. That sounds a lot like the recent "I'm not a feminist, but..." misandry that has become so popular lately. Its now common to deny favoring discrimination against men, but....

Feminist dogma, Bobx? There is no such thing. Do you even know what feminism is?
Sher

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

Personally, I find that definition of "people" to be far too limited, and very misandrist.

Most feminists now deny that they are feminists, and those who don't generally attribute all negative feminism to "those feminists over there." After more than a century and a half of organized feminism the actiions shou t so loud that the lies can't be heard. Most of the goals adopted at the Seneca Falls Conference are now the law.

For a very scholarly and well researched study of the results of a century and a half of organized feminism I suggest: "Legalizing Misandry: From public shame to systematic discrimintion against men," by Paul Nathanson and Kathrine K. Young. Its the results of extensive research carried out at MccGill University. It's published by McGill-Queen's University Press.

Blessings

Bob

MoonShadow

07-09-2007, 04:06 PM

lol.....this is amazing! I have read about misandry via Judy Levine in my women's studies when in graduate school. This world we live in has a long, long, very long way to go before one can even imply that misandry is prevalent.

Such individuals who want to promote fear of women being on any equal footing with men must find ways to "educate" their desired audiences. A tactic so powerfully used by Adolt Hitler and we know what that resulted in. It's called "hate". To instill an extreme disdain for a certain group of people. In the case of misandry, it is to instill fear that women who hate men are taking over. Not likely as long as our male dominated cultures continue to maintain the foothole they do. Nor is it ever likely in a free society where people are treated on equal terms without regard to gender, race, nationality, or ethnicity.

Furthermore, to put the fact on the board here - feminism is simply the focusing of equality for both sexes and mostly on the cultural, political, economic, and social inequalities and inequities that discriminate against women which prevent them from having equal opportunities in social, business, or political arenas that have long been available to men....white men.

There is a truism that has been around for generations and revisited and expressed during the 1960s civil rights movement which states there are no free men until all people are free. When any group regardless of the adjectives to narrow them into labels (women, men, African-American, Hispanic, European, Asian, etc) is oppressed and prohibited from having equal opportunity, there is no true freedom.

Boreas

07-09-2007, 04:52 PM

LOL. That sounds a lot like the recent "I'm not a feminist, but..." misandry that has become so popular lately. Its now common to deny favoring discrimination against men, but....

Are you serious? What drugs are you smoking. I am a feminist. No buts after the word. I do believe that a person can be a feminist AND not hate men.

I hope you have read MoonShadow's eloquent post. I guess you will just dismiss it as fmeinist dogma won't you.

Naturist Mark

07-09-2007, 05:10 PM

"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

Personally, I find that definition of "people" to be far too limited, and very misandrist.
I doubt you are right, it seems to me that women are still disadvantaged at nearly every step.

But lets assume you are right - is that a bad thing? After 10 thousand years of men on top, isn't it time to let the women take the lead?

One thing I know - There will be more whining from the guys every week than the women did per century.

-Mark

MJ_KC

07-09-2007, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by MoonShadow:
Exactly, Still_Boreus!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with all male fitness centers or other facilities but not when it is a facility where business/market deals are made which exclude business women.

Feminist dogma, Bobx? There is no such thing. Do you even know what feminism is?

Sher
I think that it is obvious that he has no idea. It sure isn't about discrimination against men. To me it is about seeing that both genders are treated as equally as possible with no discrimination against either males or females.

He seems to think that taking away an unfair advantage is discrimination. I do not want to ever see my two sisters being discriminated against simply because they are female.

Bobx23456

07-09-2007, 06:59 PM

Boreas

07-09-2007, 08:30 PM

Well, good for you bob.

So, what would you suggest? That girls just shut up and go back to the kitchen?

NudeTopher

07-10-2007, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
Yep, the same old tired feminist dogma that was being pushed in the 1950s is still with us, and being taught at schools, colleges, and universities all over the US and Canada. But we've heard the same old tired lies decade after decade, and they no longer work like they used to. The younger generation eschews the whole feminist sexism, and many of us older people just don't buy crap any more.

Poor Bob. Poor poor Bob. Not only doesn't he have a grasp on reality; he denies it.

Bob denies that there has been a historical bias against women. If we look at just once measure - such as wages I'd like him to explain that there was, and to some extent is, no equal pay for equal work. When one looks back at the decades he mentions women received less pay for the same jobs for the reason "they aren't men." *GASP* That must be an example of radical feminism.

One must have an awfully fragile male ego to blame one's lack of balls on females getting equal pay for equal work. Perhaps he also laments sufferage. How dare women have the right to vote; after all, isn't that outside of the kitchen?

MrTruth

07-10-2007, 03:49 AM

Men and women of a certain age will remember what life was like for women pre - 1960's. Women certainly did not have the same opportunities as men. Women were expected by a male dominated society (that created and enforced the rules) to stay home as raise families. Women were not encouraged (and in many cases discouraged) from attending colleges and universities. Women did not have the same employment opportunities as men for society deemed that women should not be working outside of the home. Even today, there are countless cases of men taking advantage of women - cases involving car repair, home repair, appliance repair, etc. Certain things and opportunities have improved for women since the 1960's but the job of total equality for both men and women still has a ways to go.

In comparison, take a country such as Poland where women were not discriminated against in terms of higher education or employment opportunities. In Poland, women are doctors, lawyers, educators, and high level politicians. They are the movers and shakers of the country who have contributed just as much if not more then men. So much for the false notion that somehow women are inferior to men and deserve less.

Bobx23456

07-10-2007, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by MrTruth:
Men and women of a certain age will remember what life was like for women pre - 1960's. Women certainly did not have the same opportunities as men. Women were expected by a male dominated society (that created and enforced the rules) to stay home as raise families. Women were not encouraged (and in many cases discouraged) from attending colleges and universities. Women did not have the same employment opportunities as men for society deemed that women should not be working outside of the home. Even today, there are countless cases of men taking advantage of women - cases involving car repair, home repair, appliance repair, etc. Certain things and opportunities have improved for women since the 1960's but the job of total equality for both men and women still has a ways to go.

In comparison, take a country such as Poland where women were not discriminated against in terms of higher education or employment opportunities. In Poland, women are doctors, lawyers, educators, and high level politicians. They are the movers and shakers of the country who have contributed just as much if not more then men. So much for the false notion that somehow women are inferior to men and deserve less.

Yes, some "truth" would be in order. I remember well. The few women who actually do equal work have always been paid for their work. What feminism has whined about for half a century is a fraudulent claim for "equal pay" while most women still sit on their rears and men still are doing all the hard, dirty, and dangerous work that provides food, shelter, utilities, and all the necissities of life. Even in offices women spend half their days gossiping and fiddling while the few men do most of the work, and I have decades of experience being the few who did the work.

Men are still suffering over 90% of work related injuries and deaths, while feminists still whine, whine, whine. But those old tired whining lies don't fly any more. They have been thorougly debunked years ago.

As for men-only places, there used to be men's universities, but feminists have sued them out of business after taking over the government. They claim "minority" priviledges while being the majority in fact and in voting. There still is an association of women's universities, but men only universities no longer exist in the USA apart from a couple of tiny church run theological seminaries. Most of the thological seminaries are female dominated too. And more recently we see the feminists driving young men out of our "co-ed" state universiteis in huge numbers. Teaching hate, professing feminism, making universities into anti-men hate schools, making universities unfriendly for young men is driving men away in very large numbers.

There used to be men's clubs, and men's retreats, but feminists have destroyed them. We see the whineing fictions about "business meetings" but its really just jealousy and hate. There used to be men's sports teams, but most of those have been sued out of existence.

Outside of prisons, the only men-only places left are locations where real work is being done. You won't find women doing actual work, they just sit and whine their feminist hate speech about "equal pay." Farms, logging camps, fishing boats, oil rigs, construction sites, loading docks, all the places where real work is being done are men-only. They will remain men-only because almost all women will always whine about "equal pay" but will never do equal work.

In many years of construction management I've had exactly 2 women show up asking for work. I hired both. Both soon found out that in construciton they would have to do real work, left by lunch time, and never came back.

I worked for quite a few years in the purchasing/subcontracts office at a large government facility. The staff was 75% female because they hired no men at entry level positions, and promoted only females. The few remaining men did ALL the important tasks and 50% of the total purchasaing. And we still had time to straighten out all the screwed up problems that the females created. If any one of those women ever did equal work it would be a whole new dawn. And meanwhile the females got paid the same base, got all the raise budget, and all the promotions (which they routinely failed at).

Yes, TRUTH is needed. I have decades of experience and understanding of how "equal pay" really works in the real world. Lies, hate, and feminist whining doesn't get work done, nor justify "equal pay" for sitting around gossiping. There is nothing equal about that pay at all.

Blessings

Bob

hm0504

07-10-2007, 08:59 AM

Well Bob, I do get the impression from your posts here and here (http://clothesfreeforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6500016152/m/8760032894?r=2740055994#2740055994) that you do regard women as unequal to men. I also get the impression you regard as "feminist" any woman who believes in her right to be treated equally. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Bobx23456

07-10-2007, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by hm0504:
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Typical feminist criticism says that any man who objects to the misandry of feminism must be bad.

Feminism has NEVER been about being treated equally. For example many feminists and feminist organizations are fighting hard against fathers who want equal custody of our children. If "to be treated equally" had anything to do with feminism they would welcome and advocate EQUAL custody. But alas, those feminist lies are once again proven false.

In the above statement Bob advocates equal work for equal pay, another "to be treated equally" that feminism has always eschewed.

Bob complains that men's universities have been eliminated while women's unviersities are still being promoted. Where is "To be treated equally"?

Bob complains that Title IX at universities is totally ignored by schools who discriminate against young men in enrollment, scholorships, classes, and teaching, all of the educaitonal parts of universities, while being only enforced in the very limited arena of sports. Title IX does not mention sports, which were the one place that young men could sacrifice their bodies to overcome the pervasive (illegal) anti-men discrimination in the financial aid office. If feminism actually advocated "to be treated equally" there would be "Men's Studies" classes equal to the "Women's Studies" classes which are now taught at virtually every college and university. Again, "to be treated equally" is proven false.

If you misinterpret anything Bob says as opposing rights to equal treatment then you are way wrong.

MoonShadow

07-10-2007, 11:36 AM

You are unbelievable, bobx. It is difficult to even acknowledge your postings on this board anymore as you are too far out there with your male supremacy, male dominated, let's go back to when men were already preferentially treated mindset.

There are men studies in many universities now and women only colleges are not that plentiful and are NOT promoted as much as regular co-ed universities. Enrollments are lower in either all male or all female colleges and universities. So you are wrong about the big hpye on all women-colleges and universities. They are dwindling as we speak.

Furthermore, feminism is not against fathers have custody. The courts decide custody issues and if you want more fathers getting custody then you best work with your local court systems. More fathers now are getting custody of children but some court systems are still back in the pre-1960s mentality where you are when it comes to custody issues and more often custody goes to the mother. This is changing, however.

Sports today is dominated by men. How many professional women's sports do you see today? Have you ever been to a professional women's sport? The sports arena is still dominated fully by men so you cannot claim men are discriminated here at all. You need to wake up that men are not discriminated when enrolling in universities. You either make the grade or you don't. This includes men and women.

Your narrow vision of what is real in today's world is rather disconcerting in that you display your male supremacy arrogance on this board with your disdain for women. It is sad that you do not like a world that involves both men and women at all levels. Women have moved on and they are not going to be relegated back to what they were before the 1960s. Men have moved on and are enjoying more freedom being men than they did before the 1960s when men were subjected to aweful role types.

It is sad you cannot move on.

Bobx23456

07-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Moonshadow,
Feminists have published lie after lie after lie for decades, even in the face of hard facts and thorough debunking. I can see that you have been well trained in the usual ficitons.

I'm sure that the members of the Women's College Coalition will be glad to know how trivial they are. http://www.womenscolleges.org/ Meanwhile there are no significant men's colleges left in the US or Canada.

Go right ahead and name 3 colleges in the US or Canada that have Men's Studies programs equivalent to the Women's Studies programs that have been taught for years at over 700 colleges and universities.

The many thousands of young men who's collegiate sports teams have been disbanded and disallowed because of feminist politics will be so glad to hear that they are so dominant in sports.

Your most recent post is so laughably false that it doesn't even deserve correction. You obviously have no intention of consideration of anything but the old feminist dogma. Sad, so sad.

And frankly, the continued misandry has been very offensive for several days, though I've restrained from complaining. Hate is still hate, bigotry is still bigotry, no matter how "right" some people believe it to be.

Croydon

07-10-2007, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by MoonShadow:
You are unbelievable, bobx. It is difficult to even acknowledge your postings on this board anymore as you are too far out there with your male supremacy, male dominated, let's go back to when men were already preferentially treated mindset.

Not that difficult really. I just don't acknowledge anything he says. He isn't quite intelligent or articulate so I don't bother taking him seriously.

Boreas

07-10-2007, 06:14 PM

Hate is still hate, bigotry is still bigotry, no matter how "right" some people believe it to be.

You are right bob, and what you have been spewing is hate pure and simple. You seem to come from a place of hatred and anger, and you attribute hatred to anyone who opposes your archaic views.

Not that difficult really. I just don't acknowledge anything he says. He isn't quite intelligent or articulate so I don't bother taking him seriously.

You are right Croyden.

For the record, I live in one of the areas of Canada that produces oil and gas. You will find many women in this area who work according to bobs standards. In fact they probably work harder than the men to prove themselves worthy to old white male goats like bob.

bob, you have been doing an awful lot of whining for someone who opposes it. And thank you for not adding "blessings" at the end of your latest post. It is very offensive when added to a hate filled post.

NudeTopher

07-10-2007, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Bobx23456:

...And frankly, the continued misandry has been very offensive for several days, though I've restrained from complaining....

Paging Dr. Freud. Paging Dr. Sigmond Freud.

One doesn't need to be a pyschoanalyst to see that:
1) Bob's comments, such as the one above, are "projection"; he sees in others that which he is.

2) Bob hates females with a passion. Most likely for one of three reasons A) As a baby wasn't allowed to breast feed to his heart's content; B) His life economically, socially, and professionally has been a failure. He needs to assess blame for that failure and the females among us suffer that blame. Since they have been given equal rights he interprets that in his small mind as an infringement upon his rights. 3) He has never accepted the (small) size of his male parts and blames females for the emasculation. Any further items would probably violate TOS on this site)

MJ_KC

07-10-2007, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
And frankly, the continued misandry has been very offensive for several days, though I've restrained from complaining. Hate is still hate, bigotry is still bigotry, no matter how "right" some people believe it to be.
Wow. Amazing.

Vin

07-10-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Bobx23456:
Hate is still hate, bigotry is still bigotry, no matter how "right" some people believe it to be.

Finally! I knew there had to be SOMETHING you'd say that I could agree with. Too bad I had to take it out of context to do so.

And, for the record, you've made a lot of... unusual... claims above. Care to let us know where your information comes from? Of course, if it only comes from you, and you have the credentials for us to believe you and put any credence in your opinion, I'd be interested to know that as well. Otherwise, I (and I'm sure many others) would prefer to evaluate the original sources to make up our own minds how to interpret them.

Croydon

07-11-2007, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by NudeTopher (christopher):

Paging Dr. Freud. Paging Dr. Sigmond Freud.

One doesn't need to be a pyschoanalyst to see that:
1) Bob's comments, such as the one above, are "projection"; he sees in others that which he is.

2) Bob hates females with a passion. Most likely for one of three reasons A) As a baby wasn't allowed to breast feed to his heart's content; B) His life economically, socially, and professionally has been a failure. He needs to assess blame for that failure and the females among us suffer that blame. Since they have been given equal rights he interprets that in his small mind as an infringement upon his rights. 3) He has never accepted the (small) size of his male parts and blames females for the emasculation. Any further items would probably violate TOS on this site)

Isn't it obvious?

I have found that the most hateful people are the most unsuccessful.

Ever notice that members of hate groups are failures in life? They are often economically poor, uneducated and struggle in life. I have noticed that these people channel their anger towards a certain group in order to blame them for their failure. Case in point: male members of KKK and other hate groups often live in small towns, dropped out of college, and can barely provide for themselves. They then turn to hating blacks, jews and other minority groups. Why? They perceive that the many opportunities for these groups (i.e. scholorships, affirmative actions) is the reason why they can't advance in life. What about immigrants? How many times have you heard these people say, "the immigrants are taking away our jobs"?

It is the same line of thinking for Bob. He must have an unsuccessful life and is blaming women or gays (you'll see that one in another thread). I am still waiting for him to tell us how the jews, blacks, and immigrants are causing problems in America and for him.

Bob is a victim. It is never his fault, it is always another person's or group's fault. YEA RIGHT.

You know, I can agree and accept someone's different point of view if they can articulate it. That isn't the case of Bob. His views are based on ignorance, bigotry, and stupidity. It is hard to take someone like that seriously.

For someone like him. you can not help but feel pity for him. The sad type of pity where you just think the person is sad, sad, sad.

Bobx23456

07-11-2007, 09:25 AM

The old feminist hate tactics are alive and well on CFI, but they are old and tired and don't work as well as they used to.

In standard feminsit hate speech, whenever anyone disagrees with the hate dogma of feminism, the rest of the feminist start spewing flames, launching personal attacks, insulting the person. They never respond to factual and logical objections to their feminist hate because the dogma is lies and the hate is indefensible.

We see here the classic feminist hate attack. Anyone who objects to their fiction is said to "hate women" while the truth is that the hate is all on their side, and always has been. That's what feminsim is and always has been. they accuse the person with reasonable factual objections of being "crazy," or "nuts" or "on drugs." There is a very short list of the usual feminist hate insults, documeted and listed years ago. But they still try them, failing even to think up anything new. The old tired hate speech that their grandmothers used doesn't work any more.

The truth of this topic is that there aren't very many men-only places left, while female only feminist inspired places abound in our culture. From women-only universities, to women-only DV shelters, to women-only fitness clubs its all women-only now in our society. Laws that use words of "equality" are enforced to mean "for women only." And anyone who objects suffers the hateful wrath of the midandrist feminsits.

They never learn. It so pathetic.

Blessings

Bob

Boreas

07-11-2007, 09:49 AM

Well, bob think what you must. You have not responded to only facts. You have only spouted anti-female crap. I do not know what world you live in, but it is clearly VERY different from mine and anyone else's in this thread apparently.

The words you need to learn are misogyny and misogynist. Look in the mirror and you will see the later.

Cheers

Boreas

07-11-2007, 10:04 AM

bob, I have a question or two for you. You do not like female only shelters for domestic violence. You probably do not like female only healthcare facilities. What do you suggest happen? Do we close the shelters for abused women and allow them to be killed by their partners? Are you going to say that men do not abuse and kill their partners?

I was just listening to a program on the radio about triage nurses in Emerg departments in hospitals. They spoke of the abuse female nurses take as compared to male nurses who get no abuse. Are you saying stories like that are dogma?

Please, do outline what you would consider an ideal solution and an ideal world according to your worldview. Obviously you are so terribly misunderstood. Here is your chance.

You still have not responded to facts that have been presented. You have only dismissed them as dogma.

And you went and used that salutation "Blessings" again. Do you even know what that means?

Peace be with you.

MrTruth

07-11-2007, 10:13 AM

From women-only universities, to women-only DV shelters, to women-only fitness clubs its all women-only now in our society.

Let's take woman's only gym as an example - Curves For Women. What is so wrong with a woman's only gym? I have been to curves and know many women who go there. The reasons for women going to a place like Curves are numerous. A few of the reasons are that women like to be and socialize with other woman when working out at this gym. Another reason is that women can be very sensitive about their body image and if they don't fit the typical society generated stereotype of a perfect body, then they feel awkward. Some don't want to be gawked at or bothered by men on the prowl for dates, etc. I see nothing wrong with a woman's only gym. If there were not such places, then I am sure many of these women would not even go to a gym. Anything to get anyone motivated to go to a gym for health reasons should be encouraged.

BTW, most gyms, by far, are still male dominated and orientated. Having a gym in town that caters to the specific needs of women hardly means that the entire world is becoming a woman's only world.

Another fact about women at a gym is that the majority of those who take exercise classes such as aerobics classes are women. Men are certainly welcome and invited to take these classes but in my experience few men take such classes. They put on a brave face and say how only sissy men take such classes and such classes are not in keeping with the male macho image but in reality most men are too embarassed knowing that they could never keep up with the women in these classes. That's the truth! Male vanity at work.

Boreas

07-11-2007, 10:35 AM

Men are certainly welcome and invited to take these classes but in my experience few men take such classes. They put on a brave face and say how only sissy men take such classes and such classes are not in keeping with the male macho image but in reality most men are too embarassed knowing that they could never keep up with the women in these classes. That's the truth! Male vanity at work.

I used to go to aerobics classes regularly. Once a bunch of husbands took up their wives' challenges and joined the class. Now these were guys who were quite fit. They were tennis and squash players or runners. Certainly not wimps. They were humbled very quickly. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif They could hardly keep up. I have seen the same in yoga classes. Men seem to think yoga is gentle and easy. Little do they know. http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/eusa_dance.gif

Vin

07-11-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
And you went and used that salutation "Blessings" again. Do you even know what that means?

I think it may not.

So far, "BobX" has only responded with variations on a theme whenever a post is addressed to it. There are an extremely limited number of ideas in these posts, and never any that indicate an understanding of the message to which it is responding. Rather, it appears to be triggering off keywords and then repeating what has already been said.

This leads me to think that "Bob" is likely, in actuality, someone's attempt to create an AI capable of passing the Turing Test. Perhaps if everyone quit responding to the robot and offered a critique of its functionality to the programmer, it might at least get more entertaining.

On the other hand, I've also seen posters like "Bob" show up on Pagan boards. They post hateful messages and refuse to provide sources for their materials or even to explain their thoughts. We call them, accurately, "trolls." They are dealt with accordingly.

Vin

Bobx23456

07-11-2007, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
bob, I have a question or two for you. You do not like female only shelters for domestic violence. You probably do not like female only healthcare facilities. What do you suggest happen? Do we close the shelters for abused women and allow them to be killed by their partners? Are you going to say that men do not abuse and kill their partners?

That strawman doesn't fly. The facts are that women and men attack, abuse, and kill their partners, yet there only exist shelters for women. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1111153,00.html

Even in Canada which has constitutional requirements for equal government services, the protection industry and government is haveing to be sued because of decades of a very sexist refusal to provide equal services for abused men.

In the UK, the woman who opened the first women's shelter has now abandoned the feminist dominated women's shelter industry and is a storng advocate for men's shelters as well as women's shelters. In her extensive experience creating and operating the women's shelter industry she learned quickly that women also attack, abuse, and kill husbands.

Its time to drop the misandrist stereotype hate speech which claimes "Women=victim, men=villain" and start addressing real life situtaions from a non-sexist position.

As for healthcare facilities. Women enjoy over 75% of all healthcare in the USA, while men pay the majoity of the costs. I know of several hospitals which have women-only facilities, but NONE which have men-only facliities. The process of healthcare has been shown in various studies to favor female patients while being psychologically hurtful to men. The health care industry had made little or no attempts to provide health care designed to be welcoming to men. Again, sexist discrimination against men rules the industry.

Blessings

Bob

MrTruth

07-11-2007, 01:14 PM

The process of healthcare has been shown in various studies to favor female patients while being psychologically hurtful to men.

Could it be that women are more practical and pragmatic about their health care? Could it be that men, with their macho images, equate regular health checkups and proper health care as a sign of weakness and an assault against their macho image? Men are taught to be strong and seeking medical healthcare is a sign of weakness. It is up to men to wake up and get over this. No one can blame women for creating this situation.

Also, why are so many men afraid of having a woman doctor for non gender related illnesses? Does it not make sense to chose a competent doctor regardless of the gender of the doctor? The only exceptions might be for when a man has a male only illness such as prostate problems etc. The same goes for women. Women doctors do understand and can relate to specific women's medical problems much better then men doctors.

Boreas

07-11-2007, 02:27 PM

well bob, like I said before, you would not know facts if you fell over them. You are so full of it, it isn't funny. Clearly, as a woman I have no useful information for you so I have had enough. You accuse me and others of spewing hatred, while you fling bigotted BS all over and dismiss ANY information presented as dogma or now a strawman. You are a deluded, angry, hateful bigotted man. I do not hate men. There are men though who are extremely annoying.

Gee whiz, you had better watch out. The next thing you know, women will be considered as persons and will get the vote. Then where will the world be?

MrTruth

07-11-2007, 02:43 PM

This just in.......

"Women are NEVER as successful as men.........because..........they don't have wives to advise them"

Just goes to show........behind every successful man.....is a WOMAN.

Boreas

07-11-2007, 04:18 PM

LOL Mr. Truth!

Bobx23456

07-11-2007, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
well bob, like I said before, you would not know facts if you fell over them. You are so full of it, it isn't funny. Clearly, as a woman I have no useful information for you so I have had enough. You accuse me and others of spewing hatred, while you fling bigotted BS all over and dismiss ANY information presented as dogma or now a strawman. You are a deluded, angry, hateful bigotted man. I do not hate men. There are men though who are extremely annoying.

Gee whiz, you had better watch out. The next thing you know, women will be considered as persons and will get the vote. Then where will the world be?

Same old tired misandrist response. When any man points out the flaws in the dogma, don't bother discussing reality, just start attacking, calling names, and try to drive him away. It's worked for years.

Sorry, Toots, that old tired hate strategy doesn't work any more.

Bob

Bobx23456

07-11-2007, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by MrTruth:
This just in.......

"Women are NEVER as successful as men.........because..........they don't have wives to advise them"

Just goes to show........behind every successful man.....is a WOMAN.

Sure, feminists have spewed misandrist insults like that for most of a century. But the feminist hate war on men has fallen short.

Men and women work best as a team, husband and wife. A femainist war on men has divided our society and created a war instead of cooperation. Women won't succeed by themselves becuase there is no partnership. And, of course all the hard, dirty, dangerous work that creates the necissities of life is still done by men.

Blessings

Bob

Boreas

07-11-2007, 04:44 PM

Same old tired misandrist response. When any man points out the flaws in the dogma, don't bother discussing reality, just start attacking, calling names, and try to drive him away. It's worked for years.

Sorry, Toots, that old tired hate strategy doesn't work any more.

Well poopsie, there is no huge hate strategy, though frankly you are very tiring. I guess it is okay for you to spout hate without responding with anything resembling facts. All you have done is dismiss anything as dogma. I have tried to discuss reality. It is too bad you have no clue about what constitutes reality.

I am still waiting for your brilliant solutions and actual basis for your ideas. Like I said, if you get your information from Men's Action websites and propaganda, you have no basis in reality.

Namaste.

hm0504

07-11-2007, 06:56 PM

Bobx23456, whatever valid concerns you may have about men's issues (and I think among your diatribes there are a few valid ones), it would appear that nearly all of us find you make comments about women that are degrading and sexist and really have no place on this forum. I wonder what the moderators think.

nacktman

07-11-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by hm0504:
Bobx23456, whatever valid concerns you may have about men's issues (and I think among your diatribes there are a few valid ones), it would appear that nearly all of us find you make comments about women that are degrading and sexist and really have no place on this forum. I wonder what the moderators think.

If you have happened to read any posts on any topics he has posted on you would have the same impression(s). Degrading and idiotic are but two mild terms to use in the impression(s) his postings bring to fore.

The moderators are more than likely thinking similarly, Albinus.

*****

As to the topic I have not read the entire thread yet so I do not know the scope of the discussion thus far, yet.

My thoughts on the topic are quite simple ...

Public places and organizations should be open to all regardless of gender, race, etc., but I do see where a single gender organization has a place.

If one desires to associate with others of ones gender within the context of a "club" or other such organization then I really do not have a problem with it.
The caveat to that is ... as long as the organization is based on common interests, i.e., fly-fishing, bowling, stamp collecting or whatever and not merely as an exclusionary tool for exclusion's sake based on bias toward gender (race, religion, etc., as well), then I have a BIG problem with it.

I have BIG problem with those that seek to "infiltrate" such organizations simply for "infiltration's" sake as well.

Private places and organizations should be allowed to operate as they see fit.
And you know it ... the caveat ... As long as they do so without rancor or maliciousness toward anyone due to bias about (gender, sex, race, religion, nationality, etc., and so forth and so on).

Personally I belong to only one group that is nominally single gender (and that is due to the fact none of the wives wish to come and listen to a bunch of us men talk about business deals and such and only show up when we talk about our fund raising drives for the blind, nor are there many younger men, much less younger ladies interested in joining us these days anyway), Lions International. I say nominally as we are open to female members ... and actually have a couple - who never show up ... but interest in joining the Lions is very tiny and weak these days.

Also, until female only organization such as the YWCA allow males full access to their facilities and services, no female has the right to demand any all male organization provide them with what they deny to males.

Now, I hope I have not ticked the raging fanatics off (male or female), then again maybe I hope I have and we can get on with life.

MrTruth

07-12-2007, 04:32 AM

Kings don't rule the castle, queens do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19713567/wid/11915773

hm0504

07-12-2007, 07:20 AM

Boreas

07-12-2007, 08:55 AM

I might add to my comment above that while I agree there are valid issues wrt systemic sexism against men in society, it has largely been because of men, not feminism as scapegoated in certain postings above, and endemic gender-based role-typing that such sexism exists! (E.g. Women stay at home and raise the kids while men get higher education and work in industry.)

All men and women must work together to ensure there is true equality -- in both theory AND practice -- among the sexes

This is a very good point. In fact I think that the whole gender based hierarchy makes it hard for people to realize that men can and are victims of abuse at times. I have recently met two men who were victims of domestic violence, one of whom needed surgery and will likely have permanent damage as a result. There are few services for these guys. One had no problem because it was his house, and could ask the woman to leave. The other had problems that continue. Since this is a small community resources were more limited than somewhere like Toronto. I think it is also difficult for some helpers like the police, women's shelters and such, to believe that a man can be a victim. Men themselves also have more difficulty coming forward because of the stereotype that men are to be strong and self-reliant.

It is only when we work together that things will change.

Will this be dismissed as feminist, misandry and dogma? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif

nacktman

07-12-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I might add to my comment above that while I agree there are valid issues wrt systemic sexism against men in society, it has largely been because of men, not feminism as scapegoated in certain postings above, and endemic gender-based role-typing that such sexism exists! (E.g. Women stay at home and raise the kids while men get higher education and work in industry.)

All men and women must work together to ensure there is true equality -- in both theory AND practice -- among the sexes

This is a very good point. In fact I think that the whole gender based hierarchy makes it hard for people to realize that men can and are victims of abuse at times. I have recently met two men who were victims of domestic violence, one of whom needed surgery and will likely have permanent damage as a result. There are few services for these guys. One had no problem because it was his house, and could ask the woman to leave. The other had problems that continue. Since this is a small community resources were more limited than somewhere like Toronto. I think it is also difficult for some helpers like the police, women's shelters and such, to believe that a man can be a victim. Men themselves also have more difficulty coming forward because of the stereotype that men are to be strong and self-reliant.

It is only when we work together that things will change.

Will this be dismissed as feminist, misandry and dogma? http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From here it will not be dismissed, from other corners who knows.

We are HUMANS (well at least some of us are, not too sure about a few posters here) and working together is always the best plan.

Boreas

07-12-2007, 11:42 AM

We are HUMANS (well at least some of us are, not too sure about a few posters here) and working together is always the best plan.

I agree. It is also the only solution to the polarization we have seen getting stronger since November 2000.

I have been reading a book by Anne Bishop called "Becoming and Ally: Breaking the Cycle of Oppression". She argues that often groups are arguing about who is most oppressed and that in reality, there are layers of oppression. Her argument is that we do need to become allies and work together more to stamp out oppression and challenge oppressive systems.

chuckincville

09-27-2007, 07:28 AM

I remember many years ago, that there were clubs that men could go to play cards, swim, eat, etc with other men all in the nude. No sex, no weirdness, just male-bonding-buddy kinda thing.Anything like this exist today..specifically New York, but would like to know about other parts of the country as well. TIA.

THIS IS HOW THIS THREAD BEGAN

I'm coming real late to this thread - have read most of the posts and it amazes me how these thread unravel!
This was begun by Louisk looking for a men's social nudist venue for "male-bonding-buddy kinda thing." -just the freedom to be nude and enjoy the fellowship (like that word?) of like minded men.
It ends up being a battle of the sexes!! With all the usuall venom!!

Louisk -
I'm with you pal! I would love to find a male only club or venue.

Anyone who has read my posts knows - my wife does not share my interest in naturism. (And you're probably tired of hearing about it - so am I - try living with it.) Out of respect for her and our marriage I will not - can not - participate in mixed groups (and what else is there).
On other threads single guys have been called "whiners and complainers" - (by those who don't have the problem) - for objecting to quotas and predjudices that they have experienced. How about a little empathy here!

Anyone with any positive, constructive comments??

And yes, I would like a little cheese with this w(h)ine!