The hypocracy of sympathy

[Qikdraw]

In every forum I post at I have seen multiple threads of support and sympathy for Londoners. This is a good thing because a terrible thing has happened to some innocent people.

However where is the sympathy for Iraqis? Close to 50 people have been killed in numerous bombs in Iraq today, (close to 700 in the last month) but where is the outpouring of support and sympathy for Iraqis? Are innocent Iraqis any less human than innocent Londoners?

I see posts by people here, and in other sites, that are sympathetic to Londoners about what happened there, but they have also said "better over there (Iraq) than over here". Showing they have zero sympathy for Iraqis.

But what do they really care about Londoners? I mean thats "over there" too right? If its not "over here", why do they care? I just see a bunch of hypocracy in sympathy right now, and quite frankly it sickens me.

Iraqis are NOT sub-human, they are equal to everyone else. A human life is a human life. Innocent life is innocent life, no matter where it comes from, no matter what colour or religion.

So MY sympathy goes out to ALL innocent victims of terrorism.

Qikdraw

[Qikdraw]

In every forum I post at I have seen multiple threads of support and sympathy for Londoners. This is a good thing because a terrible thing has happened to some innocent people.

However where is the sympathy for Iraqis? Close to 50 people have been killed in numerous bombs in Iraq today, (close to 700 in the last month) but where is the outpouring of support and sympathy for Iraqis? Are innocent Iraqis any less human than innocent Londoners?

I see posts by people here, and in other sites, that are sympathetic to Londoners about what happened there, but they have also said "better over there (Iraq) than over here". Showing they have zero sympathy for Iraqis.

But what do they really care about Londoners? I mean thats "over there" too right? If its not "over here", why do they care? I just see a bunch of hypocracy in sympathy right now, and quite frankly it sickens me.

Iraqis are NOT sub-human, they are equal to everyone else. A human life is a human life. Innocent life is innocent life, no matter where it comes from, no matter what colour or religion.

So MY sympathy goes out to ALL innocent victims of terrorism.

Qikdraw

[KirkOntario]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
In every forum I post at I have seen multiple threads of support and sympathy for Londoners. This is a good thing because a terrible thing has happened to some innocent people.

However where is the sympathy for Iraqis? Close to 50 people have been killed in numerous bombs in Iraq today, (close to 700 in the last month) but where is the outpouring of support and sympathy for Iraqis? Are innocent Iraqis any less human than innocent Londoners?

I see posts by people here, and in other sites, that are sympathetic to Londoners about what happened there, but they have also said "better over there (Iraq) than over here". Showing they have zero sympathy for Iraqis.

But what do they really care about Londoners? I mean thats "over there" too right? If its not "over here", why do they care? I just see a bunch of hypocracy in sympathy right now, and quite frankly it sickens me.

Iraqis are NOT sub-human, they are equal to everyone else. A human life is a human life. Innocent life is innocent life, no matter where it comes from, no matter what colour or religion.

So MY sympathy goes out to ALL innocent victims of terrorism.

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Qikdraw it has nothing to do with whether Iraqis are perceived as subhuman or not. This was the largest bomb attack on London since Hiter bombed them over 60 years ago!! The bombings took place in a safe country where such things don't happen all that often. The last IRA attack was years ago.

Sadly bombings in Iraq are routine. More people died as a result of the santions so even to ordinary Iraqis it is not apart from what they were used to. And they lived in great fear under Saddam; he was a cruel and murderous tryrant.

[Jennifer1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
In every forum I post at I have seen multiple threads of support and sympathy for Londoners. This is a good thing because a terrible thing has happened to some innocent people.

However where is the sympathy for Iraqis? Close to 50 people have been killed in numerous bombs in Iraq today, (close to 700 in the last month) but where is the outpouring of support and sympathy for Iraqis? Are innocent Iraqis any less human than innocent Londoners?

I see posts by people here, and in other sites, that are sympathetic to Londoners about what happened there, but they have also said "better over there (Iraq) than over here". Showing they have zero sympathy for Iraqis.

But what do they really care about Londoners? I mean thats "over there" too right? If its not "over here", why do they care? I just see a bunch of hypocracy in sympathy right now, and quite frankly it sickens me.

Iraqis are NOT sub-human, they are equal to everyone else. A human life is a human life. Innocent life is innocent life, no matter where it comes from, no matter what colour or religion.

So MY sympathy goes out to ALL innocent victims of terrorism.

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Iraqis are more distant from us, they do and have lived in a place where mass murder is a common thing, london on the other hand is a 30 minute flight from where i live, londoners are my people, since we are not one world but many nations its only normal to feel more about one that the other, the media coverage alone on the london attacks show just how much of a difference we have, I'm sure that in the last week Muslim Extremist have bombed/murdered a large number of Iraqi's but because all we get on the news is "today so many people died in Iraqi as a result of suicide bombing, but with london it was everywhere, i mean BBC 1 stopped all programes to give full coverage all day to the incident.

Like Kirk said London and the UK is a safe country, we arent used to those things that are common occurances in other countries. The scummy IRA was londons last attackers, and that was a long time ago.

[DoctorSurferDude]

I think any loss of human life is sad. But since we are a spawn of England and since they have been one of the european countries that have stood by our side in our efforts, we as a society must feel a brotherhood with them. That is why we would fly their flag, just like they flew ours....mutual respect.

Anybody planning on flying the Iraqi flag this week?

[Qikdraw]

I just want to point out I am not trying to minimise what happened in London. It was a terrible tragedy and I wish it had never happened.

However what you two (Jen & Kirk) seem to be saying is that because that in Iraq that its more common, that we have lost our shock & horror at the loss of Iraqis. That is sad to me. That we have become so numb to death that it ceases to be an issue.

A quote comes to mind...

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
-- Joseph Stalin

Have innocent Iraqi deaths just become a statistic?

Qikdraw

[Jennifer1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
I just want to point out I am not trying to minimise what happened in London. It was a terrible tragedy and I wish it had never happened.

However what you two (Jen & Kirk) seem to be saying is that because that in Iraq that its more common, that we have lost our shock & horror at the loss of Iraqis. That is sad to me. That we have become so numb to death that it ceases to be an issue.

A quote comes to mind...

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
-- Joseph Stalin

Have innocent Iraqi deaths just become a statistic?

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it doesnt cease to be an Issue, i do get very emotioal about that stuff, its just not publicised enough to be as big an issue as something happening in my own back yard with my own people (brits, not white/black/yellow/brown but brits), people who didnt even have a fear that something like this would happen.

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
A quote comes to mind...

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
-- Joseph Stalin

Have innocent Iraqi deaths just become a statistic?

Qikdraw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would have to say that we are way past that point. The first couple of times it is shocking, and then when the same event plays out day after day, it is no longer as shocking. That is just a basic reaction to witnessing the same thing happening constantly.

[NudeAl]

I think in the minds of many people London is nearer to us both in terms of distance and culturally. We share the same language, we are in many cases decended from them and we have similar philosophies. They are also our strongest ally in the war on terror. We can see ourselves when we look on the news and see their faces and those places. When we look at the evening news and see the places and faces in Iraq they seem so foreign and I dare say middle eastern. We associate that part of the world with the violence that is part of everyday life there. Where as in England we don't expect that kind of violence.

[Ren]

Qikdraw --- Iraqis look different from the majority race here. Kind of like how we don't show sympathy or help out as mass killings happened in Rwanda or as they happen in Darfur. If they don't look like us, we are institutionally programmed not to care.

It's a sad state of affairs and one of our most deplorable traits, but with generations of dehumanizing those who are unlike us in race and years of dehumanizing those who are unlike us in religion and culture, we have been programmed as a society not to care.

With London, it is shocking, because we (the majority) of us, look like, talk like, and share similiar cultures with them. Indeed, all loss of life is tragic, but when we live in racist socieites, we sympathize more when we look like those hurt.

And that's a real shame.

[KirkOntario]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ren:
Qikdraw --- Iraqis look different from the majority race here. Kind of like how we don't show sympathy or help out as mass killings happened in Rwanda or as they happen in Darfur. If they don't look like us, we are institutionally programmed not to care.

It's a sad state of affairs and one of our most deplorable traits, but with generations of dehumanizing those who are unlike us in race and years of dehumanizing those who are unlike us in religion and culture, we have been programmed as a society not to care.

With London, it is shocking, because we (the majority) of us, look like, talk like, and share similiar cultures with them. Indeed, all loss of life is tragic, but when we live in racist socieites, we sympathize more when we look like those hurt.

And that's a real shame. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is simply untrue. There has been huge sympathy for such events in foreign countries --one need only think of Live Aid and Live 8 (Black victims in AFrica) and last year's OVERWHELMING donations for Tsunami relief---Asian victims, not white. It is the daily grind of thes bombings that is where we lose interest partly because the media lose interest --they show us a burn out car not the effect on human lives Nevertheless many people have been affected by one act or another that was particulary barbaric. There is no particular connection to race here. We probably live in the least race conscious and least racist society in human history.

[Trailscout]

The gesture of sympathy toward London reflects the fact that we have members from the UK who regularly post here.

I am not aware of Iraqi people on this forum.

I have heard quite a bit of compassion expressed for Iraqi suffering in the media. We should care for their plight and we do.

[Qikdraw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KirkOntario:
It is the daily grind of thes bombings that is where we lose interest partly because the media lose interest --they show us a burn out car not the effect on human lives </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kirk I think you have hit on one thing here. The American media just doesn't care anymore. Becaue it has become routine. And thats a real shame. Rating points are more important than anything else.

However remember when Al Jazera was showing the human cost of war? The burnt & blown up bodies, the wounded civilians being carted off to get help? Well our government, and our media rallied together to demonise Al Jazera for doing that. Our media was shpwing planes being launched, missiles firing, tanks shooting, but never what happened at ground level when these things hit. It was a concerted effort to dehumanise the Iraqi people. If we never see their blown up bodies, we don't think of them as people.

Thats another aspect of that "over there, not over here" as well. As long as we don't see it, its unreal, it doesn't touch us in our hearts like it should.

And to me, thats real sad.

Qikdraw

[Trailscout]

Qik, you are watching the Weather Channel or something because I see injured Iraqis on television every time I tune in. There's plenty of compassion out there. We need to help the Iraqi army build its strength until they can independently defend their innocents against these evil Baathist insurgents and terrorists from other lands.

[Atlanta Runner]

Qikdraw
You raise a really good point. I wondered the same as it applied to the Scott Peterson case. You look in any metropolitan paper any day of the week and chances are that there is an example of domestic violence in there. It may be a small 5 line blurb about a husband killing his wife over something totally senseless. Why did we focus such attention on the Peterson crime yet others go so unnoticed?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's plenty of compassion out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sure there is!

That's why nobody is helping the people in Darfur and the Congo. They are dying by the hundreds of thousands in each place and it's being ignored.

[Ren]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KirkOntario:
This is simply untrue. There has been huge sympathy for such events in foreign countries --one need only think of Live Aid and Live 8 (Black victims in AFrica) and last year's OVERWHELMING donations for Tsunami relief---Asian victims, not white. It is the daily grind of thes bombings that is where we lose interest partly because the media lose interest --they show us a burn out car not the effect on human lives Nevertheless many people have been affected by one act or another that was particulary barbaric. There is no particular connection to race here. We probably live in the least race conscious and least racist society in human history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kirk, you live in major denial if you buy into your statement here.

The fact that we need Live 8 or Live Aid (some 20 years apart no less) is part of the problem, not a shiny example of altruism. Those two events were in response to the same problem. Giving some money makes us feel better in the short term, as though we've done something, but we rarely see through in the long term.

With tsunami aid, as nice a gesture as it is, you cannot say it diminishes our racist society. I know people who felt that they deserved it and went on tirades of racial epithets about them.

How much time do you spend in the U.S? Because if you think it isn't racist nor race conscious here, you simply are not looking or haven't lived here. I see it and hear it every day, and I live in supposedly enlightened Massachusetts.

If you're not racist, I applaud you, but please don't think it doesn't exist because it doesn't exist for you.

[Hooked]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ren:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KirkOntario:
This is simply untrue. There has been huge sympathy for such events in foreign countries --one need only think of Live Aid and Live 8 (Black victims in AFrica) and last year's OVERWHELMING donations for Tsunami relief---Asian victims, not white. It is the daily grind of thes bombings that is where we lose interest partly because the media lose interest --they show us a burn out car not the effect on human lives Nevertheless many people have been affected by one act or another that was particulary barbaric. There is no particular connection to race here. We probably live in the least race conscious and least racist society in human history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kirk, you live in major denial if you buy into your statement here.

The fact that we need Live 8 or Live Aid (some 20 years apart no less) is part of the problem, not a shiny example of altruism. Those two events were in response to the same problem. Giving some money makes us feel better in the short term, as though we've done something, but we rarely see through in the long term.

With tsunami aid, as nice a gesture as it is, you cannot say it diminishes our racist society. I know people who felt that they deserved it and went on tirades of racial epithets about them.

How much time do you spend in the U.S? Because if you think it isn't racist nor race conscious here, you simply are not looking or haven't lived here. I see it and hear it every day, and I live in supposedly enlightened Massachusetts.

If you're not racist, I applaud you, but please don't think it doesn't exist because it doesn't exist for you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he's read the forums at all he will see outright as well as sneaky racism all throughout and most of the posters here are American.

[KirkOntario]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cyndiannaked:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's plenty of compassion out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sure there is!

That's why nobody is helping the people in Darfur and the Congo. They are dying by the hundreds of thousands in each place and it's being ignored. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might ask the UN which is led by an African why he won't use the word 'genocide' to describe what is happening in Darfur.

[KirkOntario]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hooked:
If he's read the forums at all he will see outright as well as sneaky racism all throughout and most of the posters here are American. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You are saying your fellow Ameican posters on this board are racists? "all throughout" WoW! Flabergasted...
sorry confused; have not seen 'sneaky racism' on here at all

[Bob S.]

The difference between the sympathy of the Iraqis and the sympathy of the Londoners is that the Iraqis are in a war zone and death and killings are expected. London is not in a war zone and a bombing is shocking.

I feel bad every time I hear of another bombing in Iraq. But I can only feel shock so many times. After a while, the shock wears off and you begin to expect hearing about it. This is just like the Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel. At what point in time did the shock wear off and the expectation set in? You may have been upset with each bombing, but there was no shock.

Bob S.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The difference between the sympathy of the Iraqis and the sympathy of the Londoners is that the Iraqis are in a war zone and death and killings are expected. London is not in a war zone and a bombing is shocking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But the Iraqis didn't choose to be in a war zone anymore than the British chose to be in their situation. We went in there without good cause, which to me means the Iraqis deserve even more sympathy. Nobody needed to die. It's appalling that there is a war zone at all.

[Bob S.]

"But the Iraqis didn't choose to be in a war zone..."

It only matters to the outside world in terms of sympathy. No, innocent people never put themselves in the middle of a war zone voluntarily. But sympathy comes mostly out of the shock of an unexpected and tragic event. And you need both to cause the most shock.

We have the tragedy in Iraq but no longer have the unexpectedness. That diminishes the shock felt by most people and therefore, lessens sympathy.

Most people can only take so much tragic news in a little amount of days before the shock begins to wear off. If it weren't for our 24 hour news programs and news of deaths came, say once a week, shock might abate more slowly. And if we only saw death occasionally, it would be more shocking than seeing it every day.

Bob S.

[Captain Zen]

In case you missed it:

Republican Party Brown Shirts: "The Wide-Awakes":

The organization was known for virulent anti-Catholicism, secretive rituals, and a military-style organization complete with "officers" and units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes

===
Top War Profiteer Doug Feith Retires Wealthy :

Due to careful post-White House planning, Feith and his band of cronies will enjoy financial benefits for life, just so long as their never-ending war policies are carried on by their successor.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10176.htm

===
Taliban kill five Afghan policemen :

Earlier, three police officials were killed in an attack in the area.
http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=118279

===
At least 4 killed in suicide attack in Afghanistan :

"The suicide bombers were to carry out the attack on the US troops but it went off early,"
http://snipurl.com/hihz

===

Israeli army killed 5 unarmed Palestinians-watchdog:

An Israeli rights watchdog accused Israeli soldiers on Wednesday of killing five unarmed Palestinians in a recent raid, and said the assassination of West Bank Arabs had become routine.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10178.htm

===
Israeli soldiers tell of indiscriminate killings:

From a distance of 70 metres and through the sight of his machine gun, Assaf could tell that the Palestinian man was aged between 20 and 30, unarmed and trying to get away from an Israeli tank. But the details didn't matter much, because Assaf's orders were to "fire at anything that moved".
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10161.htm

===
European Delegation calls on Member States to hold Israel to account:

An end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict depends in the first instance on a more determined international intervention to achieve accountability from Israel and to enforce a compliance with International Law.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10166.htm