How will George W. Bush rate?

[Steve Dallas]

Most of the people who contribute to these forums seem intelligent and well-informed. So here's a question:

[Steve Dallas]

Most of the people who contribute to these forums seem intelligent and well-informed. So here's a question:

[xgsft]

Well, I didn't vote absolute worst. I think that title has gone to Warren G. Harding. However, this guy has successfully cheesed off just about everyone.

[Bobx23456]

Have there been any good Presidents since TR?

"Average" is a very low standard.

Blessings

Bob

[MJ_KC]

Certainly not the worst, but below average for sure.

[hm0504]

Maybe not the worst, and I do say maybe, but definitely in the bottom three. I wish there was an option between "below average" and "worst". I will vote "worst" not because I think he is the worst but because that is more fitting than "below average" which could include nearly half the Presidents ( because quasi-mathematically speaking, half a population will be above the average and half below). (I say quasi-mathematically, because real mathematicians know, unless one has a symmetric Guassian distribution, I'm speaking of medians, not averages!)

[texasjoe]

At one time historians used to have academic debates regarding who has been this country's worst president. Those debates are now moot.

President Harding has often been slammed for being the.worst.president.ever. At least he didn't start and pursue a pointless war, shred the constitution, stifle science to fit some fundy preacher's opinion or fully usher in a new "Gilded Age."

FYI, I have a degree in economic history.

[hm0504]

It would be interesting for those who have candidates, other than Bush II, for worst President to put their cases forward.

[nacktman]

Academic discussions have ceased to be held as to which president was the worst ever.

The shrub has and will for all time have that distinction. No one will even approach the depths this 'president' wallows in ... no one can unless they are dead and since the dead can not serve as president, well, you get the picture.

Harding had reigned almost unchallenged as the worst ever among Historians and the general population but no more nor shall his name (or any other past or future presidents), even be a fleeting stray thought ever again.

[usmc1]

OK, so I voted "worst". And at one level he certainly is. But, and I'm not certain this makes sense to anyone but me, I don't believe he rates comparison to other President's, good or bad. Each of the others had categorical bads, and maybe not so bads.

This guy is so terrible, and has wrought such disaster, and rendered up such a failure of leadership when this country needed wisdom and statesmanship the more than perhaps WWII or the Civil War.

The harm he has done, and things put into motion by he and his people may (probably are) beyond repair. In some ways, New Orleans is the metaphor of the rest of the nation. We might be rebuilt, we might be restored, but we never ever will again be what we were before this dark little princeling.

And that's a bad thing that exceeds measurement to the ills of any previous administration.

[nimrod]

I had to vote worst ever. I have to agree with usmc1, I do not know how we will recover from his follies. I trully feel sorry for whomever is the next president, they have a lot of work to rebuild this country. At least if they fail they have something to fall back on, they are not Bush.

I am not trying to be funny, I trully cannot remember anything positive that the man has done. Can anyone give one example of something good that Bush has done for this country?

[missouriboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I trully cannot remember anything positive that the man has done. Can anyone give one example of something good that Bush has done for this country? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, at least in the span from Wednesday to Thursday, he moved one day closer to the end of his term!

[nacktman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nimrod:
I am not trying to be funny, I trully cannot remember anything positive that the man has done. Can anyone give one example of something good that Bush has done for this country? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He has united the nation and the world against him and his policies http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/shocked.gif ... but wait a minute that's not a positive thing.

Never mind, disregard previous statement.

[Boreas]

I was a little reluctant to vote because I did not know much about some of the past presidents to compare. After reading the thread and some of the posts, I had to vote for the worst. I agree with what others said about the amount of damage he has caused and the difficulty this will present for getting out of the messes he has created.

Of course, it will be interesting to re-evaluate this in ten or twenty years.

[MJ_KC]

There were quite a few Presidents in the past who were considered terrible at the time, but who are looked upon very favorably now. You can't always see the effect of governmental policies right away so you can end up with a quite different analysis after several decades have passed.

Only time will tell if Bush can climb out of his present bottom feeder status. I would like to know where so many above average votes have come from. Must be from members who do not like to voice their opinions because they know that they will get slammed for daring to have a pro Bush opinion.

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nacktman:
Academic discussions have ceased to be held as to which president was the worst ever.

The shrub has and will for all time have that distinction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is a bit arrogant to assume that you know what historians in the future will have to say about Bush. Your opinion may not change, but other people may lighten up with the passage of time.

Sometimes the assessment undergoes some drastic revisions after enough time has passed. Not saying that it will happen this time, but it has happened before.

[Qikdraw]

I'm not voting, because its not just Bush, but his whole administration and the majority of the Republican party.

When I came t the US 5 & a half years ago the Canadian dollar I was exchanging at around 0.50, now the Canadian dollar is worth 0.95 to the US dollar. Thats a massive switch in 5 short years. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that by november 2008 the Canadian dollar will be worth more than the US dollar.

The US is crumbling economically, politically, and socially, and its all because of Bush, his administration and the Republican party.

Qikdraw

[MoonShadow]

I had to vote "worse ever"!

In time more unfavorable information will come out about the Bush/Cheney infamous rule of our Congress. A lot of dirty laundry is still sitting in the basket, imo, regarding these two.

[Boreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MoonShadow:
I had to vote "worse ever"!

In time more unfavorable information will come out about the Bush/Cheney infamous rule of our Congress. A lot of dirty laundry is still sitting in the basket, imo, regarding these two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you. Right now they have the power to keep things in the basket!

Qikdraw, you are right. The speed at which the exchange rate is changing is amazing. It has more to do with a crumbling US economy than it does with a booming Canadian economy. The good thing is, I might go visit Seattle in a few weeks on a day/overnight trip from Victoria BC.

[hm0504]

I see we've got 2% for Superior and 36% for Above Average. Love to hear from those folk!

[MJ_KC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Qikdraw:
When I came t the US 5 & a half years ago the Canadian dollar I was exchanging at around 0.50, now the Canadian dollar is worth 0.95 to the US dollar. Thats a massive switch in 5 short years. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that by november 2008 the Canadian dollar will be worth more than the US dollar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Probably just means that there has been improvement in the Canadian economy. The exchange rate between the U.S. and Japan hasn't changed all that much for quite awhile.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MJ_KC:
[Probably just means that there has been improvement in the Canadian economy. The exchange rate between the U.S. and Japan hasn't changed all that much for quite awhile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but the Euro -- the other major currency besides the US Dollar - has gone from 88c to $1.40 since 2002. The pound was in the $1.60 range and today closed at $2.04.

The US dollar is in the dumpster right now.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/dollar-drops-new-...AF72-D4140D9C4EBB%7D (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/dollar-drops-new-lows-subprime/story.aspx?guid=%7B14684749-8900-488C-AF72-D4140D9C4EBB%7D)

[nudebushwalker]

Half the rise in the value of the Aussie dollar over the past few years has been at the expense of the US dollars slide.
The resurgence in gold values recently is another sign of a weak US dollar..
A few years ago the US dollar and the Yen were the leading international currencies - The Yen has been a basket case for more than a decade now, and now the US dollar is following it south; whilst at the same time, both the euro and the gold standard are currently on a rise in popularity.
(And it might be of a small side interest to note the Chinese currency being floated in the next few months?)

[usmc1]

It really helps to know who's calling the shots in the middle east.

DEBKAfile reports: Bush’s Middle East peace conference plan peters out after telephone conversation with Saudi King Abdullah

July 18, 2007, 9:52 AM (GMT+02:00)

Our Washington sources report that the White House tried to play down the importance of the proposal put forward by President George W. Bush Monday, July 16, after Saudi King Abdullah said he would not attend. White House spokesman Tony Snow said it was too early to say where or when the conference for discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would take place. "I think a lot of people are inclined to try to treat this as a big peace conference" said. "It's not."

Neither could it be. According to DEBKAfile’s Middle East sources, the president could have known before he unveiled his conference plan that not only the Saudi ruler but also Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak, both key regional players, would not be coming.

Neither goes along with Bush’s boycott of Hamas. Washington’s total rejection of the Islamist terrorists who seized the Gaza Strip was highlighted in his speech. hat morning, Egyptian intelligence minister Gen. Omar Suleiman arrived in Washington to try and persuade White House advisers to rewrite some changes into the speech. No chance, he was told.

Middle East sources note that the Bush Middle East statement had the effect of accentuating the gaps dividing the very Arab rulers most needed to back peacemaking. Three opposing camps emerged more clearly than ever:

Oneb.> The US, Israel and Jordan, who are convinced that an uncompromising boycott of Hamas will bring down its Gaza government and restore the rule of Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah.

Two. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco and most of the Gulf emirates object to this boycott and advocate power-sharing between Hamas and Fatah because they are convinced the latter will never recoup its military strength either in Gaza or the West Bank.

Three. Iran and Co. - Syria, Yemen and Hizballah, whose solid backing for the Palestinian Islamists is expressed in cash, arms, advisers and combat training.

By concretizing these gaps, the Bush speech has motivated the three camps to prove its path is the correct one. Therefore, Camp One while backing Abbas all the way will find it harder than ever before to isolate Hamas. So long as the extremist rulers of Gaza benefit from the support of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran and Syria, the massive US-Israeli cornucopia of cash, benefits and concessions showered on the Salam Fayyad government in Ramallah will lend Fatah rule not much more than a limited and artificial lease of life.

[DoctorSurferDude]

He will be remembered for his war, that's about it. His questionable election will be an easily breezed over section of the history books.

I guess I voted for him (I'm non-partisian)....what can I say, we all make mistakes...we all have regrets http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

I can't see any way whatsoever that the republicans will win next year's election. It's just a question of which democrat.

[Naturist Mark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can't see any way whatsoever that the republicans will win next year's election. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Neither do I. Alas that doesn't mean a Democrat will become President. A lot of us think the Democrats won the last two elections.

[MrTruth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The US dollar is in the dumpster right now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The U.S. Dollar is expected to continue to weaken against most major currencies through at least the end of next year. Look for another gradual decline of up to 6 to 10 percent.

[Boreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He will be remembered for his war, that's about it. His questionable election will be an easily breezed over section of the history books. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I suspect too that there may be some skeletons in the closet that won't help matters. The whole "good ol boy" thing that got Skooter Libby off the hook. I am sure there is more where that came from.

[usmc1]

<span class="ev_code_red">Disfavor for Bush hits rare heights</span>

It’s not just the war – It’s everything!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19947950/

[MoonShadow]

Good article. I agree that most people just don't bother to care about what he does and to just let him flounder for the next 18 months.

However, 18 months is a long time for a bumbling idiot behind the white house wheel. He has done a lot of damage and will do more, I am afraid.

[nudebushwalker]

Noticed in yesterday's headlines where Bush is now claiming new evidence trying to infer Al Qaeda in Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11 atrocities...
This despite the fact that Al Qaeda backed terrorist groups were irrelevant in Iraq (Saddam didn't like them, and kept them isolated to one corner of his country - not that that he wasn't adverse to his own terrorism against his own people - just that there was no Al Qaeda involvement; (apparently saddam did not like Osama Bin Laden, either)) when Saddam was in power, and have only gained prominence since so-called "Insurgents" have become such a problem since the US-led invasion to free the oil..
Seems that there is no end to the ways in which our leaders continuously attempt to rewrite history - looks like they are running scared these days - in Australia, the US, Russia, and a few others. There are quite a few elections coming up over the next 16 months or so, by the looks of things.
Many of our Western governments, these days, seem nearly as corrupt and perverse as those in the Middle East, Africa and Central America, don't they?