Nudists refuse to stay hidden

[simonsebs]

Nudists refuse to stay hidden (http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5544717&nav=1LFs)

Maybe things are looking up. Has anyone been to this resort and can tell us about it.

[simonsebs]

Nudists refuse to stay hidden (http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5544717&nav=1LFs)

Maybe things are looking up. Has anyone been to this resort and can tell us about it.

[alfredr]

There was more to that story. I was able to read about what got reproduced at this link over someone's shoulder on Sunday before they turned the page of the paper. This was on a boat headed back to Panama City, Fla. after fishing for several hours.

It's too late now, but are there any nude or C/O beaches around there? Not that I would have had much opportunity as I was with other people whose plans didn't include nude beaches.

[David77]

Type in the zip code of 32407 for Panama City Florida on the following web page, and you will see the closest resorts to Panama City FL.

<center> http://www.nudistparksusa.net/clubfinder.html
</center>

[shãybare]

http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cool4.gif
I just read most of the article on a link from fark.com. It is positive well written article. I am always glad to see others reaching out.

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shãybare:
http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/cool4.gif
I just read most of the article on a link from fark.com. It is positive well written article. I am always glad to see others reaching out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the main controversies within the nudist world is that AANR is spending a lot of its members' money, trying to accrue publicity for the "super resorts" == and at the expense of the Mom and Pop camps, non-landed clubs, etc.

Is "upscale, upscale, upscale" a good thing? Yes ...

BUT ...

Paradise Lakes, Paradise Valley, Caliente, etc. are NOT completely representative of the American nudist scene. They show but one ASPECT of it.

But AANR does not delve very much into the areas of the modest -- and modestly priced -- campgrounds and resorts that appeal to families.

My disappointment in nudism is that when my wife and I started in 1979 or so, we found other families like ourselves, relaxing, enjoying friendships, relief from high stress jobs, and an environment for our kids.

Now it's the same people - but we're all empty nesters and in our 50s and beyond!

I don't know what Paradise Valley is like today, but its sister resort -- Paradise Lakes -- well, on our visit there a few years back -- it was upscale but definitely not family oriented as other parks, clubs and resorts are.

That being said, I withdrew my AANR membership two years ago and there's no looking back. In lieu of the $62.50 I sent off to AANR every year (as part of my Sherwood Forest Club dues for my wife and me) -- I gave the money to the Naturist Action Committee. This year I upped the ante to $100.

An important note - although the Sherwood Forest Club is listed as a "100 percent club" in AANR publications, it has not been for the last three years, yet for some reason, AANR still insists on listing the club that way. That hurts us as a club.

AANR promotes "upscale" and attracts investment -- the problem is, that's ALL they promote to any great degree.

There were other reasons I pulled my AANR membership, and I won't get into them here (no, it wasn't the fact that they won't change their "all clubs establish their own gate policy" rule, but that's impossible for them to change anyway).

But one of the reasons is that when they get a "liveshot opportunity" within the media, they do not talk about the legacy nudist parks -- which need younger people --20s, 30s, and need families -- but only the "luxury" resorts. They are getting investment. But when people visit a nudist resort and say "hey it's all old folks" -- one of the reasons is that the traditional, affordable facilities aren't being promoted as they should be.

[NakedGary]

AANR definitely follows the $$$$$$ and the ######'s hoping for increased membership.

They have lost resorts and membership slowly but steadily for years now but keep quoting 50,000 members, a 400 Million dollar trade or market year after year.

Maybe some of those clubs are going to non 100% clubs and AANR just doesn’t want to acknowledge it or publish their in a decline because of their ways of promoting only the resorts they want to or where they see the $$$ and ###'s.

They really have a big void of younger and college aged members who will be the ones replacing the older members, managers, and future of organized nude recreation as we know it.

From what I understand from their new format on their web page, AANR has farmed out their web page design, brochures, and marketing to a public relations firm or Corporation.
.
.

[Liam]

Usuallylurk, I will certainly keep an eye on this matter, but it isn't something that I have noticed.

Before I became too ill to visit my local resort and take part in the events of the non-landed club that I belonged to in my area, I saw good representation of both in AANR publications. Both of these are small "mom and pop" organizations.

However I have noticed a few things that have bothered me over the last four or so years.

1. There is an increasing use of attractive young women in club advertizements.

2. There are fewer men in their publications.

3. There are many more clothed "nudists" in AANR publications.

I will certainly be on the lookout for what you warn of. Do you have any similar thoughts (or anyone else) about possible trends at TNS?

[Centauri4]

Being financially off in a way that you can live the lifestyle, buy property and invite like-minded friends to join you would be ideal! However, how many of us are or ever will be in that position? Otherwise we must keep in mind that owning and maintaining a nudist park, campground, resort or club (e.g. clothing-optional healthclub) is a business and there MUST be a formula indicating the minimum number of PAYING members that must be maintained in order to remain in business. It must be difficult, especially when there are some many alternative ways to spend "recreational dollars" or "vacation dollars".

I am one of the younger members of the audience that has not done very well at budgeting my income and expenses over the past few years, so I imagine there are many more like me out there. As a consequence of this I have let memberships lapse, nudist magazine subscriptions expire and not purchased a "North American Guide to Nude Recreation" in many years! Sorry to admit it, but maybe it well encourage others to manage their money more actively.

Along these same lines how many nudist clubs take an interest in the financial well-being of their members? Most are probably not tuned into this "need" (if I can call it that) or have overlooked the possibility of inviting guest speakers on financial planning and promoting the event to CURRENT and POTENTIAL (or non-attending) members. Some people might jump at the chance to reasses their financial roadmap, retirement plans and other responsibilities, but it often seems we separate our "nudist lives" from our "financial lives" until memberships/magazines/dues become unaffordable luxuries or secondary priorities. And where does that leave the campground, club and resort operators? With dwindling memberships, ignored renewal notices and maintenance deferred until "next season".

Organized nudism must be more integrated into the daily lives of more people in order to be a financially viable segment of the national, or dare I say, world economy. Paying dues to clubs and renewing nudist magazine subscriptions has to be as commonplace as picking up the local Sunday newspaper, dropping a few bucks in the donation box at church, or giving the kids lunch money for school. If not it will remain as "weak" as other non-essential living expenses.

I am only realizing this now, and figuring out how to apply things I learned in business (my work life) to my naturist life. It is often easy to devote alot of time and attention to issues at work and be "to tired" to deal with keeping our "other" lives on track at the end of the day. Maybe I am wrong about this, so I will ask for the reply posts to start with the keywords:

"ONTRACK - ..." (meaning well a balanced mix of personal and professional priorities)
or
"OFFTRACK - ..." (meaning letting work rule your life, and [potentially] ignoring nude goals)

Thanks everybody!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NakedGary:
AANR definitely follows the $$$$$$ and the ######'s hoping for increased membership.

They have lost resorts and membership slowly but steadily for years now but keep quoting 50,000 members, a 400 Million dollar trade or market year after year.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my opinion and observation, which could be incorrect, the money is greater today because of the upscale-ness.

Some of the resorts are super. I've stayed at Caliente, it was nice (too opulent for me), Paradise Lakes (didn't like the atmosphere), and I am a regular visitor to Cypress Cove (not as luxurious as the former two, but a preferable atmosphere and certainly more than adequate accomodation).

The numbers ARE lower; AANR membership was around the 50,000 level but then they voted to jack the dues up and a lot of the members at "Mom'n'Pops" and small non-landed social clubs dropped it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Maybe some of those clubs are going to non 100% clubs and AANR just doesn’t want to acknowledge it or publish their in a decline because of their ways of promoting only the resorts they want to or where they see the $$$ and ###'s.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sherwood Forest dropped the 100 percent rule because the high AANR fees discouraged people from joining. It was $75.00 -- the club keeping $12.50, which pays for mailing expenses, plates and utensils and soda, etc. incidentals, and to cover shortfalls if we don't meet the minimum at our gatherings at a rented site, and the other $62.50 being shipped off to AANR and the regional group, AANR-East.

Sherwood is a winter-events club, primarily for those who are members at or visit Cedar Waters during the summer. So when someone asked about Sherwood - and the cost was $75 just to join, they walked away.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
They really have a big void of younger and college aged members who will be the ones replacing the older members, managers, and future of organized nude recreation as we know it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly my point. That's where the future of nudism is -- hopefully, those younger folks will catch interest. Unfortunately, they probably won't be able to partake of that interest until their kids are grown and gone.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
From what I understand from their new format on their web page, AANR has farmed out their web page design, brochures, and marketing to a public relations firm or Corporation.
.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They've farmed out their marketing for many years. AANR is basically a marketing organization. The problem is, that the members at all clubs -- little ones, big ones -- pay for the effort. That would be OK if they paid attention to the marketing of nudism at ALL levels -- but no, they pay primary attention to their 'gem' clubs.

When was the last time you saw a place like Pine Tree or Berkshire Vista highlighted in one of their media liveshots?

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liam:
Usuallylurk, I will certainly keep an eye on this matter, but it isn't something that I have noticed.

Before I became too ill to visit my local resort and take part in the events of the non-landed club that I belonged to in my area, I saw good representation of both in AANR publications. Both of these are small "mom and pop" organizations.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt you'll see them **within** AANR publications, geared to reaching AANR members. But you don't see those groups promoted when AANR gets a mainstream opportunity.

The AANR Bulletin is NOT distributed to anyone other than AANR members. My problem is with their marketing approach -- when they have a mainstream opportunity, they do not even mention the existence of those smaller clubs.

{quote]

However I have noticed a few things that have bothered me over the last four or so years.

1. There is an increasing use of attractive young women in club advertizements.


2. There are fewer men in their publications.

[/quote]

Marketing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
3. There are many more clothed "nudists" in AANR publications.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haven't noticed because I haven't taken The Bulletin in 2+ years.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I will certainly be on the lookout for what you warn of. Do you have any similar thoughts (or anyone else) about possible trends at TNS? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A little bit -- there recently was a college edition of 'N'. But TNS is different, they are more publishing than marketing, although they do some marketing. They also seem to do a lot more on the legal front -- particularly through their Naturist Action Committee (legal/lobbying). And they have had a Naturist Education Foundation - for years, and AANR is just getting on board in that area.

TNS is in the business of promoting clothing-optional recreation. AANR is in the business of promoting some of their facilities.

That's the big difference - and, TNS does it on a shoestring, for what they do it's pretty amazing. AANR has its network of committees, task forces, directors, trustees, inboard meetings, etc. etc. etc. etc.

[Naturist Mark]

AANR is an association of nudist clubs, that is their focus and who they represent. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a proud member of AANR.

AANR increasingly has engaged in outreach - trying to promote nude recreation, and to positively present it in the mainstream media. All good stuff. But AANR remains club based, and even though it has made some tentative steps into beach advocacy issues and lobbying for more access for public nude recreation, clubs remain its primary focus. That shouldn't surprise or disturb anyone.

There is a good reason that TNS exists - because an organization was needed that was focused on public access and wider advocacy than AANR's club-centric role. Don't blame AANR for being something it is not, and was never meant to be - The Naturist Society. Support TNS and the NAC, and if you are a member of a club - support AANR - each has a valuable role.

-Mark

[Croydon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
AANR is an association of nudist clubs, that is their focus and who they represent. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a proud member of AANR.

AANR increasingly has engaged in outreach - trying to promote nude recreation, and to positively present it in the mainstream media. All good stuff. But AANR remains club based, and even though it has made some tentative steps into beach advocacy issues and lobbying for more access for public nude recreation, clubs remain its primary focus. That shouldn't surprise or disturb anyone.

There is a good reason that TNS exists - because an organization was needed that was focused on public access and wider advocacy than AANR's club-centric role. Don't blame AANR for being something it is not, and was never meant to be - The Naturist Society. Support TNS and the NAC, and if you are a member of a club - support AANR - each has a valuable role.

-Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't support AANR as it really hasn't done anything.

You are right, AANR works WITH and FOR resorts. AANR hardly gets involve in politics/legal of nudism.

During the whole Foley and nudist camp fiasco last year, it was mostly TNS and NAC that did most of the talking while AANR took a back seat. In fact, I saw one tv interview where AANR spoke. After that interview, found myself disgusted at AANR because they shot us in the foot. The rep was unprepared for the interview and as just "caked" by opponents.

I do not support AANR because I do not believe AANR is inclusive. I get the feeling that AANR supports not only resorts but CHRISTIAN FAMILY NATURISM. AANR does not speak to the single, non christians or gay naturists living in America. When I think of AANR, I think of fat cats on the top of the corporate chain that care only about money and more money.

I support TNS because I know my money goes to good cause. TNS uses my money to make changes. In addition, they represent everyone; black, white, gay, straight, christian, atheist etc etc etc.

[Liam]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:
No doubt you'll see them **within** AANR publications, geared to reaching AANR members. But you don't see those groups promoted when AANR gets a mainstream opportunity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok! This is the part I missed the first time. Now I understand what you are saying. Thanks!

[usuallylurk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Naturist Mark:
AANR is an association of nudist clubs, that is their focus and who they represent. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a proud member of AANR.

AANR increasingly has engaged in outreach - trying to promote nude recreation, and to positively present it in the mainstream media. All good stuff. But AANR remains club based, and even though it has made some tentative steps into beach advocacy issues and lobbying for more access for public nude recreation, clubs remain its primary focus. That shouldn't surprise or disturb anyone.

There is a good reason that TNS exists - because an organization was needed that was focused on public access and wider advocacy than AANR's club-centric role. Don't blame AANR for being something it is not, and was never meant to be - The Naturist Society. Support TNS and the NAC, and if you are a member of a club - support AANR - each has a valuable role.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


AANR is undoubtedly a club organization, and there is no doubt about it, even though they sometimes claim to represent all aspects of nudism.

Unfortunately, they tend to ONLY promote the ultra-luxury resorts -- but also insist that they represent all of club nudism ...

Of further irritation to those who are not AANR oriented -- there have been instances in the past where they will happily allow clothes-free rights to be legislated away, as long as exemptions are written in for their clubs.

They have even gone as far as having their organization named in some of the anti-nudity bills (unsuccessfully, thank God) which would effectively make them a de facto government licensing body for nudism.

TNS will NOT compromise on that issue. Nor do they arm-twist any club in their network to force individuals to join TNS.

Where do you think AANR memberships would be today if their "gem clubs" didn't have 100 percent mandatory AANR membership?

[Bob S.]

The larger resorts get the media airtime because that is what sells. Camping, lawn bowling, and a swimming pool are not the accomodations that are the pride of our society. Everything these days is about getting more. Things have to be up-to-date and state-of-the-art.

If people are going to pay, they want to get something for their money.

That, IMO, is partly why the AANR is losing members. The members are not getting enough for their money.

Bob S.

[DoctorSurferDude]

Good posts!!

I'm an AANR member. That being said, I don't think it is a perfect organization, I don't think one exists. If I had my way, I would remove the AANR name from resorts like Paradise Lakes who has a history of allowing activities that are not in line with the sort of nudism AANR is about. I too have noticed that when they have the spot light they are always pushing forward bling bling spots like Caliente instead of trying to appeal to younger generations. I wish that wasn't so....

I have not had any negetive experiences with AANR....I believe that there is room for improvement, yes. But rather than cast them aside for that, I'd rather be involved in effecting positive change. If your car is broken you can either leave it on the side of the road, pay somebody else to do it and hope it gets done right, OR....fix it yourself. I'm a fix it yourself kind of guy http://oakhurstonline.com/icon/wink3.gif

[DoctorSurferDude]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by usuallylurk:

Where do you think AANR memberships would be today if their "gem clubs" didn't have 100 percent mandatory AANR membership? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm.....good point.